Suzanne Packer The Sian Williams Interview

Today, I'm meeting an actress who's recognisable to millions

as one of the longest-serving cast members

of the hospital drama Casualty.

She grew up in Cardiff,

the eldest sister of a famous sportsman,

and her career has taken in the screen, the stage,

musicals, even comedy.

But she almost gave it all up to teach.

I'm off to meet Suzanne Packer.

He said, "You're not going to act?" I thought, "Oh...yeah."

I said, "I tell you what, if I get into drama school, I'll act.

"If I don't, I'll see what I do."

And that was how arbitrary that decision was.

Very few people knew. The audience went "really?" Really?

You could hear them going, "No!"

I decided - absolutely, no word of a lie -

that I was no longer an actor and I'm going to be a teacher.

And I remember coming home...

Well, I didn't come home,

cos whenever I'm in a major disappointment,

I come back to Cardiff.

And great people - Willard White, Simon Rattle,

working with Trevor Nunn...

I mean, everything was just tick, tick, tick!

Hello, Suzanne. Hi. It's lovely to see you. You, too.

Thank you for taking a break from filming Casualty.

I imagine I've interrupted you in a really hot storyline, have I?

It is quite a hot storyline.

I'm going through quite a lot, at the moment, yeah.

You've got that, "I'm not going to tell you what it is..."

On pain of death.

THEY LAUGH

Well, it's really good that you're here.

Casualty, of course, filmed in Cardiff,

which is a city you know very well and love and grew up in.

Absolutely, yeah.

It was a dream come true,

because for eight-and-a-half years, I was up and down the M4,

getting over that bridge to get to work in Bristol,

and then they decided that they were moving,

and it happened to be my hometown.

Tell me about growing up in Cardiff, then -

tell me about your schooldays.

Was it happy?

I have a very, very strong memory of school, because I loved it.

Teachers tended to like me, so I always felt very comfortable.

I only have good memories of school

and I think that's made a massive difference to the choices I've made,

because my school - my high school, particularly -

had a very, very strong focus on music and drama.

That made a massive difference in terms of my choices

for my career and my university career.

So yes, it's only fond memories.

I'm going to take you back to that high school, because...yeah.

We've got something here.

Oh, wow! Have you seen this before?

I have. This was in the entrance hall of Llanedeyrn High,

so everybody saw that when they came into school.

This was Viva Mexico, first musical I ever did.

I can't remember my character, but I was the lead. Clearly.

And, bizarrely - this is so lovely - that's still my best friend,

right there. Really?

What's her name? Ailsa Cameron.

Gosh, and I tease Ail.

SHE LAUGHS

We'll have a glass of wine over this. Brings back the old days. Yeah.

Was that when you knew, "That's it - acting for me."

No, I didn't know acting then, not at all.

But I loved it.

Around that time, I was still thinking I wanted to be a journalist.

Really? Bizarrely.

But no, it wasn't until I was at university that I decided on acting.

Cos I did theatre and drama at Warwick

and we were in our last year and we were in the library,

we were supposedly revising.

And my dear friend, Dave Bond,

he said "Sue, what are you going to do?"

I said, "Oh, I don't know." He said, "You're not going to act?"

I thought, "Oh...yeah."

I said, "I tell you what, if I get into drama school, I'll act.

"If I don't, well, I'll see what I do."

That was how arbitrary that decision was. Really?

Then I did...I think about four auditions at various drama schools,

of which Webber Douglas was one,

and that's where I ended up going after I left university.

And did it feel like a natural choice, once you were there?

No, it didn't. No?

I always remember being in an improvisation class, for example,

and I always used to feel I didn't get as much time as other people.

I don't know if that was because I wasn't very good at improvisation

or whether I genuinely didn't have enough time.

I always used to feel like I was in the lower rung, in the B-stream, never in the A-stream,

cos I used to think, "They're not that good

"and they're getting more time to see if it..."

So there was that, then an interesting thing happened

when I left drama school.

I left early, I didn't do my full three terms,

because I was offered a job and I was offered an Equity Card -

it was the golden nugget, it was the ticket.

In those days, you couldn't be a professional actor

unless you were an Equity member.

So I had to ask permission to leave early

and I remember my head of acting saying, "Congratulations",

obviously, "but you know...don't have too high expectations -

"because of your colour, there won't be that many jobs,

"so I just want you...I don't want you to be too disappointed,

"so maybe lower your expectations."

Really? Oh, yes. Because of your colour?

Uh, yes. When are we talking?

This would have been '85...'85.

And had you been aware that...that anyone might have even thought

that was going to be an issue?

Well, yes, as a political individual, obviously -

you watch television, and there aren't as many black actors

and there aren't as many black roles.

I slightly don't know what that means now, because any role could be black,

if you choose to make it a black role, but, um...

So, I suppose, in that regard, I automatically assumed,

"Well, maybe because there are so few,

"then there's going to be a lot of competition for those few roles."

Which is...I think that that was the angle she was coming from.

I think she was saying, "Just be realistic -

"there won't be as many opportunities because there are fewer roles."

I took it that way, I have to say.

Yeah, but...four years down the line,

when I had hardly been out of work, I proved her completely wrong.

But... Did you take the job? I did take the job.

I had that thing everybody wanted then,

which was the Equity Card, so...

You didn't go back and wave it in her face? "Look at me!

"I did get a job, I've been in work ever since!"

I never did. I don't need to do that, you see,

cos you can tune in on the Saturday night.

See you on Casualty. Exactly.

I told you that Suzanne Packer would go nowhere(!)

But no - if I had really taken store by that,

I think my spirits would have been so low,

I probably would've given up, you know,

which a lot of my friends did at drama school.

They had maybe six months to a year out,

and then they gave up. Yeah.

And so, you're Suzanne Packer. Yep.

Whereas your father's name is Jackson. Yeah.

Were you born Suzanne Jackson?

Yes, but there was a Susan Jackson

and that was felt to be too close.

So I made the choice to change my surname

and so I chose my grandmother's maiden name on my mum's side. Ah!

There's two performers in your family. There are.

So I'm going to show you - you and your brother together. OK.

In a rare appearance.

ON VIDEO: Let's meet the Pointless celebrities.

Oh, no!

Goodness, that's why I don't like doing these things,

cos they come back to bite you!

LAUGHING: Forever!

Bless. Colin, our Olympian hurdler.

Suzanne, Tess Bateman on Casualty.

But what nobody knows is that you're brother and sister.

I don't know, I imagine...

AUDIENCE: Oh! I know!

I know, very few people knew. The audience went, "Really?"

You could hear them going, "No!"

That's very exciting indeed. Whose idea was it to do this?

Thank you.

I never do these. Why? Cos I get very self-conscious.

And interestingly, Colin and I have spoken about this quite a lot...

100 seconds to name as many Greek foods...

..he is very used to being himself in front of a camera,

whereas I've always been somebody else...

ON VIDEO: The one I know...

Tsoliades. Tsoliades.

Is it right? If it is...

You don't even like really looking at it, do you? Not really.

Ooh!

Oh! Not really!

Suzanne! He disowned me, after that.

ON VIDEO: No-one likes to see that happen.

COLIN: No, especially her brother.

"Especially her brother."

Oh, he's so mean... So that was his idea.

Oh, yeah, and he persuaded me to do it, cos I kept saying no.

I've been asked to do so many of these kind of programmes -

Weakest Link, and all of these - uh-oh.

Back now to musicals. Oh, musicals...

You've got a fine voice. Musicals.

Musicals were always my first love - oh, yes.

So this is Porgy and Bess. Yes - I did this at Glyndebourne.

That's a big gig. It is.

I mean, let's put it into perspective -

I was one of 50 in the chorus.

I didn't have a lead role. Still a big gig!

No, it still is a big gig. Are you on here somewhere?

Yes - so that picture was my costume.

I had the hat, I had the colour of the dress, the sandals I wore.

If I had died after I did this, I would have been happy.

Really? Hm. Why? What was it about it you loved so much? Oh...

The calibre of the voices and the musicians.

And great people - Willard White, Simon Rattle,

working with Trevor Nunn...

I mean, everything was just "tick, tick, tick!"

It was just a brilliant experience.

So why didn't you stay in musicals?

Why aren't you a musical actress now?

Very, very, very good question,

which I think I've only started to answer for myself, recently.

When I went to London, I lost of confidence,

partly because I was working with people - not just on Porgy,

but in other musicals I did -

where I was witnessing such great talent.

I felt I was the weakest link and luckily, obviously,

because I was building my skills as a dramatic actress,

my confidence in my singing was going a little,

but then I was becoming more confident in my straight acting

and then opportunities were opening up.

Singing and musicals sort of, just, drifted away.

How did you get into Brookside?

When did television start coming into your life?

OK - you have an agent, and obviously,

jobs come through the agents, books

and then if they think you're right for it,

they'll put you up for it.

So, I was put up for Brookie and I didn't get it.

And I remember coming home - well, I didn't come home,

cos whenever I'm in a major disappointment,

I come back to Cardiff -

and I went to my parents and I was just really down.

And this was for the part of Josie Johnson?

This was for the part of Josie.

Then about, I think, a week later, I get a phone call to say,

"Oh, they want to see you again."

And then I went for it the second time and then I got it.

Phew! That was a big role as well.

I mean, everybody watched Brookie at the time. It was so popular.

It was a massive change in my life, because suddenly,

I was recognised everywhere.

And you were in Brookside for quite a few years, weren't you?

Um...not as long as I think a lot of people think.

I was in it as a main character, straight through,

for a year-and-a-half, so that was '90 to '91.

My agent at the time said to me...

They offered me another contract and he said,

"Right, Suzanne, this will take you now to two-and-a-half years."

He said, "You have to make a decision,

"whether you want to be a soap face

"or whether you want to be an actress."

He said, "If you left now,

"you still can do maybe the roles that you want to do.

"It might be harder being so identified with Josie,

"if you stay another year."

I still had that ambition to do other roles,

and...I just wanted to just do other things.

I'm just going to show you something, actually,

which you did for a while with...

..a group of other actresses. What's the BiBi Crew?

The BiBi Crew. This would have been '93, '94. OK.

But you'd just left Brookside, presumably?

Yeah, not long, yeah - I was pretty much back, you know...jobbing actor.

I didn't know any of these.

I think they all knew each other, but I didn't know anyone.

I got involved with this, and because we were all of Caribbean descent...

Your parents are Jamaican, aren't they? My parents are,

and we found that we would share all these stories about our upbringing,

find that we had so much in common,

and we just decided to...put on a show.

And we did - we devised a show and it was such a hit.

And it's Caribbean experiences? Yes, it is.

We're drawing from what we know, and you know, how we were brought up,

how hard our parents were, they were such disciplinarians.

Jamaican parents did not, you know...

They were hard, and we all have that in common.

In what way were they hard? I mean, my mother, for example...

I couldn't be cheeky to my mum. It was out of the question.

I mean, you couldn't even think to be cheeky.

And we all had that - our mothers, real matriarchs, and...

Then of course, culturally,

the other cultural things like food...

Sunday was rice and pea and chicken, we all had that.

We all would have Saturday soup.

Considering they were brought up in London,

I was brought up in Cardiff, there were so many connections.

And you were also doing a bit of teaching. Yes.

Now, where does the teaching come from?

OK - 19...I think it was 1995,

I was working at Bristol Old Vic and I was in the rep company.

Somewhere in the middle of that, I lost my desire for acting.

And I decided - absolutely, no word of a lie -

that I was no longer an actor and that I'm going to be a teacher.

Why?

I just think I got fed-up.

I just had a dip in acting, I just didn't have a desire for it.

I didn't have a buzz.

I don't have any other reason.

I really don't.

I just seemed that, one day, I was enjoying it,

the next day, I wasn't,

and I just felt I had other strings to my bow,

so I trained to teach theatre and drama, 11 to 18.

Did it, did the year.

In the middle of that year,

I was asked to do a TV half-hour drama,

which I had vowed I wouldn't do.

A lovely producer, Jane Dauncey, rang my agent up

and said there was this piece that had been written for me... See!

And do you know what? Oh, no! Oh, yes!

Glorious... It's Wales Playhouse, wasn't it? That's it, yes. OK.

How extraordinary.

Oh, there you go. I have not seen this for such a long time.

I've got that top. Have you?! Still? Yeah!

They said, "Is there one thing you'd like to take?", and I took that top!

And it was written for you? Yes.

Yeah, I can see why your ego was massaged to go back into acting.

I know. It was a week. We did it in five days, I think.

There was a real sense of,

"Oh, I'll just do this for five days

"and then I'll go back to my course and I'll be a teacher."

No expectations. No expectations.

There's always that thing of...

You had the answer machine in those days.

"Has my agent rang?!"

I didn't have that, because I had my qualification and,

when I wasn't acting, I would teach.

I did supply teaching. I always enjoyed my teaching.

I really got involved with the students

and I got involved with the schools

to the extent that I was offered a full-time job at one school.

Were you tempted to take it?

No, I wasn't.

I wasn't because, by then, I had decided I really was an actor.

Or both! But I was both.

But I was at this particular school for three months...

How difficult were the kids?

And managing children, managing a class of children? Was that tough?

No, I loved it. Did you? And do you know why? Because of the acting.

They fed off each other in a very, very positive way.

Because nine times out of ten, I'd be recognised,

so I'd say to them,

"If you get on with the work that your teacher has set,

"I will give you ten minutes at the end of the lesson

"to ask me any question you'd like about acting."

Did you bribe them, Suzanne? Let's be honest. Pretty much.

But, do you know what, Sian?

Not once did I have another teacher have to come in

and calm my class down.

You once said about teaching, "The more I teach,

"the more I feel it's probably the best job in the world."

Yeah. I do.

I do, think it is, and it makes me...

Gosh, I got emotional then.

Because I think it's so undervalued as a profession.

They should be given far more money

and I think they should be given far more respect and credit.

You're clearly really passionate about it. Yeah.

And it obviously tapped into something

that acting couldn't give you.

I think that is true, because I remember...

And I broke down and I cried, and they all gave me a big hug...

..at this particular school, where they'd gone through their GCSE

and they had to perform.

They worked really hard, they were rehearsing in their break time

and lunch hour, and they did beautifully well.

Afterwards, they came up to me and they thanked me, and...

Oh, what did they say? The definition of real joy?

Happy... Um... "Joy is happiness shared."

And I think those are the moments,

and you don't necessarily get a lot of those moments,

and I think definitely, on that occasion, that was happiness shared.

So, what happened next? Bit of acting... Yep.

Bit of teaching... Yep. And then...

Well, then I got married in '97, so I was still acting...

And you met Jesse Newman. I met Jesse Newman.

An American actor.

Yeah. I was in America, in Brooklyn,

and I met him there doing a show.

We had gone to The States to perform and that's how we met.

And then '99 was when I moved over to The States.

We were starting to think about having a family,

and he had been struggling to act over here.

It was actually as much about having this adventure.

You know, he'd had time over here.

He'd spent a couple of years living and working here

and I'd never done that, so it was...

Yeah, there was more of a romantic, exciting side,

as well as the practical side.

Did that romantic, exciting side stay?

Um...not with him. Oh, dear. Didn't it? But with the city.

I fell in love with New York

and I don't think that chapter's over for me.

I really feel I have a connection with New York.

And you had a child in America. Oh, yes. You had Paris. Why Paris?

We just liked the name in the beginning.

And not because of Paris Hilton, because of the original, you know,

it's an ancient Greek name, you know,

Paris is a lover, Romeo and Juliet...

And what was happening with your relationship with Jesse then,

once Paris was born?

Um, our relationship was already dying, but I think having a child,

really, as everyone knows, it's another dynamic,

and I personally felt I started to get my most homesick

because I felt I wasn't getting the support.

And, of course, I couldn't work because I had this new baby,

so I was desperate to come back to Britain,

and at that time we both were going to come back,

and I was only ever going to come over for two weeks

and then go back to America and start to dismantle our life there

so we could make the move back.

On the Friday after we arrived, my agent rang

and it was to play Tess in Casualty.

I had the audition,

and by five o'clock that same day they offered me the role.

So then I ripped up my return flight

and, within less than three weeks, I was on set,

still breastfeeding...

SHE LAUGHS

That sounds hard. Paris was three and a half months.

It was hard but it was hard, not so much from...

It was physically tiring,

but my brain, I couldn't remember lines.

now I'm going to show you your first day as Tess Bateman. Oh, no!

This I have definitely not seen.

CASUALTY THEME MUSIC

Familiar theme. Yeah, that doesn't change.

Very familiar, I bet you hear that in your sleep, do you?

'If you would let people know the waiting time is now four hours.

'I realise you are busy.'

PHONE RINGS 'Holby ED?

'I'm afraid she's a bit busy at the moment,

'can I ask what it's concerning?'

I do not remember this scene at all.

'Hello, this is Tess Bateman, Emergency Department sister.'

'Do we know how many casualties?'

'We'll be standing by.'

'What was that about?'

There's been train crash, we're going to have to clear the Department.'

'Really? Where?'

'Just go and find Harry for me, please, Becks. Hello, switchboard?

'Tess Bateman, ED sister.

'I'm invoking the Maj-X..'

Look at those bags! Demand feeding!

'Will you keep your voice down, please?'

And there's Charlie, of course,

who's been in it as well for a very long time. Yeah.

That was the storyline with the big train crash,

and voted the most popular Casualty episode of all time by viewers.

Gosh! And it was your first day. That was it.

But you know, Sian, in terms...

I think if I wasn't so tired and my whole world was in such a maelstrom,

I would have been more nervous.

When I look at it now, I think, my God,

that's a really big drama on BBC Saturday night. Yeah.

Which I don't think I appreciated at the time.

I suppose it's not surprising that things were a little shaky

between you and Jesse, as well, at this point. Yeah.

That's quite hard to maintain.

There were were a lot of cracks in the relationship before,

but I think this period absolutely sealed it.

I was home, I was with my family and that gave me a lot of strength

to know that, actually, it wasn't healthy, our relationship,

we weren't enjoying each other.

And how old's Paris at this point?

When I started Casualty he was three and a half months.

Was he on set then?

Well... Oh, my poor mother, goodness gracious.

She didn't know that when she retired from nursing

she'd be taking up a second career as a childminder.

Bless her, she would come with me,

she would be in the dressing room with Paris.

(Oh, bless.)

Would you ever bring your script to her?

While she's got this role as a child carer,

she also, of course, was a nursing sister.

Yes, she was my chief medical adviser. Was she?

Yes, certainly at the beginning, because there were all these

weird words and I'd say, "What's this, Mam, what's this?

"What do you do with this? Is that realistic if I did this?"

My mum was an intensive care nurse

and she loved watching Casualty because she'd say,

"No, you see, we wouldn't do that,

"there's no way we would have given drugs like that."

She'd spend the whole time picking holes in it, the whole time.

It was unbearable to watch.

Absolutely. I don't tend to watch...

Does she watch you? My mum watches every week.

Yeah, which I'm always surprised about,

but I'm not with her on a Saturday night,

so I generally don't know how she...

I'll have to ask my dad if he can watch it uninterrupted.

It wasn't the first time you were in Casualty, though.

Because you were in it as a...

Well, you had a smaller part in one of the episodes.

Oh, my goodness.

I have more of a vivid memory of this

than I do of my very first episode where I was Tess.

I was a drugs mule.

THEY LAUGH

It's not the only time you've been put at risk in Casualty.

I'm going to show you something that's pretty gruesome here.

You appear to be balancing on a steel pole. Is that right? Yeah.

I was... Oh, my goodness, that's so vicious, isn't it,

when you look at it?

I was told originally that there wasn't going to be a gap,

a visible gap, between my back and the rubble,

but it didn't turn out that way, I don't think.

I think there's quite a gap.

So, basically, I had to support my own weight,

and the hardest part to support was my neck,

because I had to strain my neck so much to keep it without lolling back.

Oh, that wasn't easy.

I get a bit of buzz when I see, oh, Tess is somewhere else

outside of...

And technically that was a stunt, when I had to fall and land.

Just doing something a bit more physical just breaks it up

and it is, it's exciting to do, so I do tend to...

And that physicality and excitement and being away from the hospital

is something you're filming at the moment? Yes.

Oh, give me a hint.

Well, it's got something to do with a train,

and I think that's all I can say.

Oh, you're a tease!

I have to say that, listening to you over the years,

you started off quite Cardiff. Yes.

I just noticed that there.

I wasn't as conscious of it until, funnily enough,

I noticed that very, very first scene,

when I took the phone.

That's interesting, cos I know that you as a person

have become more Welsh, if I can say that,

and more associated with your own culture and identity.

Yes, yes. Because we met, what, nearly 10 years ago...

(Is it that long?)

..when we both undertook a challenge,

which was to learn Welsh.

SHE LAUGHS

And you did very well.

SINGING

Oh, we did! We sang!

I forgot that bit, that was our first challenge!

We sang the Welsh national anthem. We did.

Are you on this? I hope not!

There you are! There we go!

Oh, Gosh. That's right.

You've got a fine voice, though.

I was really intimidated, I was standing next to...

Never! Yes, I was! Oh, my goodness, that was such good fun.

I'm singing the Welsh national anthem thinking, "Listen to her!"

Can you remember the words still? I can. Do you?

I don't think so, I'd have to get...

# Mae hen wlad fy...

# ..annwyl i mi... #

Is that right? Yes! You've got the voice,

I don't have the voice. Oh, God, Oh, God.

Have you kept it up?

To a degree, I have.

It's slightly hard for me not to, because my son

is in Welsh language school, Welsh medium school,

so I hear Welsh a lot, obviously when I go pick him up, etc.

Especially now, the BBC of course, Casualty is in Wales,

so I get a lot of opportunities

because the guest artists and the storylines,

there's so many Welsh...

The pool of actors are coming from the Welsh pool,

so you're hearing it all the time.

Well, I'm sure whatever you do, whether it's a musical

or whether it's going back to teaching

or whether it is staying in Casualty for very many years,

you will be a huge success at it, as you have been already.

It's been a real pleasure to talk to you.

Thank you very much, it's been really lovely.

Diolch yn fawr.

Croeso! Diolch yn fawr.

And there it stops.

THEY LAUGH

Thank you, Suzanne. Excellent. Ardderchog.

Stop it! Now you're just showing off!

Now I'm showing off! Laa!