Forty Grand Money

-How much is your weekly grocery shop?

-About £120.

-How much for a bottle of shampoo?

-£2.09.

-Do you take a packed lunch?

-Yes.

I'll probably go to the pub and spend 20, 30 quid on beer and not think about it.

Em, fingers, £20, every two or three weeks.

-Would you do £200 on a meal?

-Yes.

# The best things in life are free But you can give them to the birds and bees

-# I need money

-That's what I want

-# That's what I want

-That's what I want

# That's what I want

-# That's what I want

-That's what I want...

-#

£40,000 is an average income for a British family today.

It's the typical take home pay for a household where two adults are working.

There are people who feel flush living on this amount of money,

but for others it's a daily struggle.

So what do the choices we make about money tell us about ourselves?

All the families and households in this film live on the same net income,

but their circumstances and their priorities are all different.

'Money...'

Is £40,000 enough for you?

No.

-How do you feel on £40,000?

-I'd like to earn more.

Entirely comfortable.

-Quite stable.

-Stable. That's a good word.

-Like that one?

Yeah. Stable, comfortable.

-Is that enough for you, that income?

-No.

I left school at 16.

And not a moment too soon!

I've been a train driver for 17 years and I've been at Eurostar for 10 years.

How did you become a train driver? What do you have to be able to do?

Drink lots of tea. Em...and whinge.

Tell red and green from one another is a good thing.

I think it's the best possible job that I could have,

bearing in mind I don't think I'm awfully good at too many things.

-When you decided to be a train driver, was the money a factor at all?

-No.

I really felt that one should have a job that you like doing because it cuts into your day a bit.

Nev and his wife Deanna live in Ashford in Kent.

Deanna is a newly-qualified teacher and Nev earns twice what she does.

It's Nev who takes primary responsibility for organising the finances for the two of them.

There's two ways of doing finances. There's the proactive approach and the reactive approach.

I believe there's not many things in life that are actually surprises.

So I try and allow a sum of money

for replacing stuff or for how much things are going to cost.

'Nev has devised his own elaborate and very particular accounting system.'

-Your money comes into your account or a joint account?

-My money comes into my account.

-Then what?

-I like to then move that money into my virtual pot system.

-And what do you have pots for?

-All sorts!

-Yeah!

-Go on, tell me.

-Food, entertainment, holidays,

-em, stationery...

-Miscellaneous.

-Miscellaneous.

Car maintenance, petrol. We had a DIY pot when we were decorating the bedroom.

-White good replacement pot.

-White good replacement pot.

-Saving for the new central heating.

-How do you know what everything's going to cost, Nev?

-Well...

-Do you research it?

Oh, he's the master researcher! At anything, really.

Are you looking for the cheapest dishwasher tablets or are you looking for

your favourite quality dishwasher tablets on special offer?

I'd rather buy something that I knew worked. There's organisations available to help you decide.

-Would you research your washing powder or your washing liquid?

-Yeah.

-Kitchen towel?

-Yep!

-Toilet roll?

-Toilet rolls.

Do you research what is the best toilet roll or go on experience?

No, again the organisation that I use and go on their website, it's got its recommendations.

But you like to know from an objective source that there's a guarantee of quality

-and then you buy when it's on offer?

-It's important to aim for that.

-#

-Money, money, money Money, money, money

-#

-Money, money, money...

-#

How did you two meet? How long have you been together?

-We came from the same village in the Philippines.

-Same town.

-Same town.

And how long have you been a couple?

We got married 2006.

So we've been married more than four years now.

After three years of marriage, Janice and Kenneth had their first child, Kenan.

When he was still a tiny baby, Janice unexpectedly found herself pregnant for a second time.

So I got pregnant when he was at three and a half months.

Then when I had my scan, they said it was triplets and I was shocked.

The first thing that came out of my mouth is, "We need to change the car!"

I was thinking about the impact on the finances.

So these are naturally conceived triplets? Three identical girls.

-How unusual is that?

-One in 200 million.

'Janice was working as a physiotherapist in the Philippines

'when she was recruited by the NHS to come and work in a hospital in Harlow.

'Kenneth came to Britain to join her, leaving behind his job as a qualified architect.'

So when you came here, tell me what happened.

I tried to look for some jobs, but they said I need experience and to be qualified here,

so I need to study one and a half years to be qualified here.

And then I look for some jobs that I can do to earn money here

-and then I found it in DHL.

-So you're working in a DHL warehouse?

Yes, in a DHL warehouse. It's a manual job. Not really hard, but it's a manual job.

If you compare it to what you are doing before, it's really different.

Janice and Kenneth have been bringing home 40 grand between them,

but this is only possible if Kenneth works very long hours.

Before, when we didn't have Kenan, I am doing seven days a week.

So about 10, 12 hours a day.

-And have you thought about doing the year and a half's training to become an architect here?

-Yeah.

I am thinking about that, but... you know, there's always a conflict with having a situation like this.

At first, I tried to work first for about a year

then I was planning to study, and then Kenan came out,

so my plan was postponed again

and we adjusted again and then after that

Janice got pregnant and it was triplets, so...

There's nothing I can do. So I need to prioritise my family.

-Do you feel frustrated about that?

-Yeah, really. Yeah.

-You can see it!

-Yeah.

JANICE LAUGHS

But you just have to accept it, especially now with the triplets.

What can you do?

-There's nothing I can do.

-He's very emotional today.

-Andy, how old are you?

-I'm 49.

-Becky, how old are you?

-13.

-And Gaynor, how old are you?

-44.

-And how old is the dog?

One, tomorrow!

Can you tell me what your household income is, net, annually?

Net, about 40,000.

And that's your income, Andy, because Gaynor's not working.

Correct. That's purely my income through my work.

'Andy takes home his 40 grand working as a manager in an IT company.

'And Gaynor is a homemaker.'

-How do you organise your finances?

-It's quite simple. The money comes into my account,

all the direct debits are set up so it all comes out of my account.

-I give Gaynor an allowance each month.

-How much do you give her?

-£500?

-About £500, yeah.

-£500.

Which I do the shopping with and any socialising.

-How much do you spend on groceries a week?

-Em, it's probably in the region of about...

It probably is around about £100.

Yeah, we've got a weekly budget of about £100-£150.

- It's £100. - We easily do £100, with nappies.

I probably spend around £60, £70 a week on groceries.

Do you like cooking, Gaynor?

SNIGGERS No.

-How often do you cook?

-Two or three times.

-Per week?

-Yeah.

-I cook more than that.

-Four times a week, probably.

-OK, I'll give you four.

-Four times.

-What do you guys eat the rest of the time?

-Fish and chips, em... doner kebab, Indian.

-Indian.

-Thai. Anything, actually. Yeah, what we fancy.

-Depends what we feel like.

-Is that a financial issue when you get a take out?

-No.

-Not really.

-Is that coming out of Gaynor's £500?

-No.

-No.

-I buy that.

-Have you got everything?

-Yeah.

Gaynor went to state school, but Andy had a private education.

For both of them, educating Becky privately is their top financial priority.

I benefited from it.

It was an all-boy school. Becky's is all-girl. No distractions.

I just personally believe I got a much better education.

-The class sizes are bigger than I would like really.

-What - 21, 22?

But even that is less than the state schools. And I value that.

I value that the class sizes are smaller and I'm happy to pay for it.

I'm also happy to pay for the fact that because we pay they actually have better facilities

and better opportunities.

There does seem to be a bigger broadening of the mind within a private school, I think.

-Are the school fees your biggest outgoing?

-Yes.

-Yes.

-Bigger than the mortgage?

-Oh, yes.

-It's almost double the mortgage in monthly terms.

I liken it to slitting our own throats on purpose, on occasions!

-It's basically £750 a month, about £3,000 a term.

-And I'm on scholarship.

-So we get a discount from that of 15%.

-Which is cool.

-So how much is that worth, the scholarship?

-She asks us that.

-I think it's worth about £1,500, maybe?

-Yeah.

-About that.

-A year?

-A year, yes.

-Once you've got that scholarship, do you have it throughout your school career?

-No.

-That's where the pressure goes on me a little bit. A lot.

-Does it feel like an extra pressure?

-A little.

But I know how clever I am, so...

Don't let me brag. I will just go on and on.

-If the two of you had more than one child, would private school be an option?

-No.

-No.

No, couldn't afford it.

-How do you feel on £40,000?

-I'd like to earn more.

-You obviously don't feel it that intensely or presumably Gaynor would be out at work.

-Yeah.

Yeah, I guess.

# My life be like, oh, ah

# My life be like, oh, ah

# Oh, ah, yeah, oh... #

So my first question is can you tell me how old you both are, how many children you have

and how old your children are?

-I'm 44.

-And I'm 43.

-My name's Brian.

-I didn't ask you your name, Brian.

-Didn't you?

-I've forgotten the list of questions!

-We've got two children...

-No, we're going to start again.

-Sorry.

-OK, so can you tell me how old you both are, how many children you have and how old they are?

-I'm 43.

-I'm 44.

-We've got two children.

-Alexandra and Matilda.

Alex is 8 and Matilda is 3.

How would you describe your financial situation at the moment?

Tight.

Yeah, there's a word and I can't think what the word is.

Um...

Draining.

-How much is your weekly grocery shop?

-About £120.

And are you scrimping to bring it in at that price?

Yes. I won't even buy a shop pizza.

Well, it's £1.75. I can make four pizza bases at that price.

-And do you try and buy organic?

-I do try. I think it's better value for money, shockingly.

You get better flavour, you get more meat on an organic chicken.

-Are your vegetables organic?

-Yes.

Yes, carrots and celery, yes. And I have a delivery every week of organic fruit and veg.

-#

-Money, money, money...

-#

-Do you care about whether your vegetables are organic and your meat is free range?

-No. No.

Do you care if it's organic?

-Yeah, I do.

-That's the rules, yeah.

-#

-Money, money, money Money, money, money...

-#

'Monica and Brian and their two girls live in Bournemouth.

'A couple of years ago, Brian took redundancy from his job.

'He and Monica, who'd been a full-time mum for five years,

'decided to set up a small business together running their own cafe.'

At what point did you decide that you wanted to embark on the venture that was the cafe?

-What brought that on, Monica?

-I'd always wanted to work for myself.

My friends laugh at me. There was always some scheme on the go,

whether it was hair scrunchies in the '80s or knitting or something. I was always dabbling.

I always knew I wanted to work for myself and all my jobs have been where you've been your own boss.

But the panic set in and made me really want to do it when my dad died suddenly.

-I thought, "Oh, my God. Life's really short."

-How old were you?

Forty.

-So it was a mid-life moment, literally.

-Definitely. I should have just got a sports car, you know.

And had either of you any experience of catering, the catering industry?

Only from having the odd foreign student and I've always done food for parties and food for family.

'Although an initial success, the cafe went bust after only eight months.'

So what did you do wrong?

-We...

-Took on too many staff.

Yeah.

-We were...

-Trusted people we shouldn't have done.

-Yeah.

An old drunk said to us four words. I think he was right. "Too nice, too trusting.

"That's where you went wrong."

Monica and Brian had remortgaged their house and ploughed Brian's redundancy payment into the cafe.

When the business failed, they were declared bankrupt.

-Oh, that keeps happening. That's the second time.

-You have to give me £2.

-And so you personally lost £70,000 or £80,000 of your money?

-About 85, yeah.

-£85,000.

-And had... That's a lot of money.

-Mm. It's everything we'd built up in the houses.

-All the equity.

-By doing houses up, moving.

-Plus your redundancy. So it was all the money you'd ever made.

Yeah.

'Brian now has a new job working for a utility company.

'His salary, combined with tax credits and money from taking in lodgers, brings their annual income

'up to forty grand.

'However, the bankruptcy means they're not allowed credit cards and can never be overdrawn.'

Is it limiting what you can do now? Is it day to day limiting you that you can't get any credit?

Yes. It's actually doing me good. It's teaching me to manage my money, as my mum said.

I have done for years. If I haven't got the money, we can't do it.

If we want to do something, I have to save up and find it.

-And did you not have that sort of sense of financial management before?

-No.

-Did Brian?

-A little bit. No.

-You were both as bad as each other?

-He's worse?

-He's worse!

We need change to give people, but then we need to know how much we put in in the first place

or we won't know how much we've made, will we?

I'm just wondering if you feel better in yourself or you felt better when you could spend freely?

Hmm.

I feel more, um...

Is the right word pious?

For being able to now do that.

But, um, I feel more stressed and worried.

-It's not fun.

-No, it's not as fun as slapping a bit of plastic.

-Is a good day when you come through the door and think, "I didn't spend anything"?

-Yes, yes.

# My life be like, oh, ah Yeah, ooh

# My life be like, oh, ah Yeah, o-oh... #

You own this house. How much is it worth, roughly, do you think?

Maybe 195. Something like that.

It's a modest house, worth about £110,000.

-Two...

-About three hundred?

-Yeah? Three-ish.

-Yeah.

Well, when we bought it, it cost us £460,000.

We bought it in the market at 165.

Last time I heard it was 250.

About three hundred and...ten thousand pounds?

-How much money do you owe on the house?

-More than that.

-£360,000.

-OK, so you're in negative equity. You owe more than it's worth.

-Yeah.

-# Money talks

-Listen

-Money talks

-Get money

# Dirty cash I want you Dirty cash I need you... #

Kate and Jay live outside Bristol. They've been together for 11 years, are not married with no children.

We never wanted any. Didn't like them very much!

Kate is a nurse specialising in multiple sclerosis.

And Jay is an electrician.

They both have plenty of disposable cash and Kate loves to shop.

Saturday is kind of chores and food shopping and things like that.

And then Sunday is my play day, which generally involves shopping.

-So you go into town, without Jay?

-Without Jay.

-We don't shop. We shop for Jay...

-When we have to.

-When we have to. We don't shop for me with Jay.

Would you say you buy something every Sunday?

Yep.

Yeah, definitely.

-I've got quite a few scarves...

-You DO have quite a few scarves!

-I quite like scarves.

-Do you have a lot of scarves?

-Not a lot.

-15, 20 scarves.

-More than most scarf shops.

-No, I don't.

No.

-You can never have too many scarves.

-You can't!

-And what about shoes and boots and things? How much are you spending on those?

-We've got lots.

-Sandals, yeah.

-The pumps drawer.

We've got probably 80 pairs. ..Heels drawer.

-When you say "we"...?

-Me.

That was the royal "we". Me.

I'm not sure. Going out shoes.

How much might you spend on a pair of boots or shoes?

I'd probably spend... I don't know. A pair of boots, anything up to 150?

And then, I don't know, up to 50 on a pair of shoes.

Do you budget for the groceries and things?

-It's about £80 a week.

-Where do you shop, Kate?

-Wherever I've got money off vouchers for.

-So you're a voucher person?

-Well, they send me like £7 off and £5 off.

I'm not a 20p off. I'm... Yeah.

Let's see what's in your fridge, Kate.

Food, Vanessa!

Lots of packet meals.

OK...

Chicken.

-More chicken.

-More chicken.

What else have we got?

Chilli.

Chilli con carne and rice. OK. What's this one?

-OK. Is that for one or for two?

-That's for two.

-Two for £5.

Dinner for £5 for the two of you. What's the most you'd spend on a ready meal for two?

£10?

-Would that be a special occasion? Friday night or something?

-Yeah, maybe. Yeah.

OK, that's the fridge interrogation over.

-Your white goods replacement pot is pretty healthy at the moment.

-Yep.

-How much is in there?

Er, so we've got... £60 target each month.

And we've got 300 in at the moment.

The next targeted white good to be replaced is the dryer,

-cos I need a much more economical one.

-How do you know how much that will cost you?

-Again, research.

-Guesswork. These pots...

-Have you researched your next dryer, Nev?

-Don't need to. I've got the website to go to.

-So you know which one.

-And how much is it going to cost?

-I think that the one I'm after is about £450.

It says "Dentist". How much do you put in the dentist pot a month?

-I usually put in £20 a month.

-And how did you work that out, Nev?

Em, roughly what I spent in a year or a guess.

When you try to do your research, might you say to your dentist, "How much will it cost me this year?"

No.

I think he might think I was somewhat off the wall with that.

I was trying to work out whether there were things that Deanna might want that don't fit your system.

So what are the things Deanna wants?

-What are the things you can't have, Deanna?

-Shoes, clothes.

No, it's not that bad.

-What about double glazing? Do you want that, Deanna?

-I do, yes.

-Can she have that, Nev?

-No.

-Why not?

-I just think that it's a waste of money.

-And we'd be better off...

-Freezing.

-..getting maximum value from these windows, which are still there.

-Have you got a window maintenance pot?

-No!

-No, no savings for that.

That's one we need.

# Money # Money, money, money... #

I generally quite like cars.

So I try and buy myself a new-ish car every two years maybe.

-The car cost us...

-It cost us ten grand.

I did have a brief spell when the BMW N5 was beckoning to me.

I've never been really into cars. They've never done much for me.

-How many cars have you got?

-Three.

-Three.

-Three.

-How many drivers are there in the family?

-Two.

-Two!

What's the most you've ever spent on a car, Kate?

About 17,000.

So if you buy a car for 17,000, roughly what would you get

-for the one you're trading in? What are you actually spending?

-Probably seven. Five or seven.

So you're having to find £10,000 every couple of years to upgrade?

Yeah.

I love my car. I love cars, generally.

-What would an impulse buy for you be, Kate?

-Oh, gosh.

A car, possibly.

-You'd impulse buy a car?

-I could easily impulse buy a car, yeah. Easily. And have done.

Every day we're going to buy stuff for the triplets, we have to search first rather than impulsive buying.

We need to save a lot of money. Every single penny helps and we have to keep it

so it's like buying a buggy or a simple blanket for the baby,

I have to search on the internet for the cheapest. And that's how we save.

-I presume you've had to buy three of everything. Three cots, three high chairs...

-Yeah.

And then you've got Kenan as well.

-Are you buying your nappies wholesale now?

-Yeah, wholesale, so we can save a lot.

-How many nappies are you getting through a day?

-Oh, dear. If they're feeding six times a day,

they change the nappy six times. Times three. So 18 nappies a day.

-You've had to buy an enormous amount of kit. How much was the car?

-The car cost us...

-Ten grand.

-Ten grand.

-For the car.

It's a big impact on the budget. Obviously, we did not expect...

We know that we're having triplets, but it wasn't planned.

It just happened. It was like you asked for one and you were given three.

So everything was like a big change in the budget.

Is there anything you buy that's for you?

For me?

No.

Even my haircut, Kenneth does it.

Look. Yeah?

Before you had children, did you spend money on yourself?

-Holidays.

-Holidays. I love holidays.

-She loves holidays.

I love holidays.

But I can't afford it at the moment.

-Barbados.

-Maldives, Maldives.

-Twice.

-Maldives, Maldives, Kenya.

Just package holidays, two or three times a year if I can.

If you're talking about cruises, we will go for the four to five-star as opposed to the six-star.

-But are you looking longingly at the six-star brochure?

-Of course I am, of course I am.

We then had four, five skiing holidays maybe?

For a break for a few days, I'd rather spend some time in Scotland

or the Lake District or somewhere like that.

Those big trips, how much would they cost roughly?

-The Maldives were very expensive.

-It was about 5,000.

-No, it was 7½.

-Was it? Kenya was 5,000.

Kenya was about 5½, but the Maldives was about 7½.

How are you affording that amount on holidays?

We probably are living a bit beyond our means.

Do you have credit cards?

I haven't got a credit card, no.

Have you ever been overdrawn?

I haven't ever been overdrawn.

Have you ever been in debt?

I've had a loan once - £5,000 for a car,

which I bought myself for my 30th birthday. I had the loan, I think it was three months, then I paid it off

And are you proud of that, Kate?

Yeah, I am proud of that.

I like the fact that I can manage my money.

A lot of my friends are in debt for whatever reason

and never have got any money left at the end of the month.

Yeah, I am proud of that.

And I think, you know, that comes from my mum

and it's just kind of working hard and managing your money, isn't it?

BABIES CRY

WOMAN SINGING SOFTLY

When are you going back to work, Janice?

-I'm going back next week, Monday.

-Full-time?

-Full-time.

How is that going to work?

Kenneth applied for a change of hours,

then he was allowed to work from four o'clock in the afternoon till 12 midnight.

And I will be working from a quarter to eight to a quarter to four.

-You'll come back from work and Kenneth will go straight out?

-Yeah.

You'll get back just after... at a quarter past midnight. Janice hopefully will be asleep.

-Yeah.

-Then Janice will get up and go to work, so you won't see each other in the morning.

-Will you see each other at all?

-Possibly. He needs to wake up becaus the babies will be awake by seven.

-So you'll see each other at breakfast time?

-Yeah.

-Yeah.

And so, financially, you're going to be worse off

because on that schedule, neither of you can do any overtime.

-There's no time left to do any overtime.

-No.

At least we're not paying child care

And how do you feel about the fact that you've had triplets?

We're so blessed. We asked for one and we were given three.

There must be a reason why we have the triplets.

We don't know about it now, not yet now, but I think in the future we will know why we have triplets.

So you are blessed, Janice, but in another way, it's an incredible burden to look after them.

-It is.

-Yeah.

And I said to Kenneth that probably it is a test of my patience

And how is your patience holding up?

It's getting better.

BABY CRIES

-Are you planning on having any more children?

-No, no more.

I've done my share for humanity. I'm saying it loudly.

I've done my share for humanity.

BABIES CONTINUE CRYING

-Do you save regularly for your grandchildren or anything like that?

-No.

-You're not in a position to save any money for the children for the future?

-No.

-You're trying to save money for their future?

-Yeah, we need to.

How can we afford four kids in the university all at the same time?

ELECTRIC GUITAR MUSIC

-Do you live alone, Gerard?

-Yes.

-Are you single?

-Yes.

-Do you have any children?

-No.

-How old are you?

-I'm 47.

Tell me what you do for a living.

I teach at the University of Glasgow where I head up the Department of Scottish Literature.

-I also run the Centre for Robert Burns Studies.

-So what's your net income, Gerard?

Around £40,000 a year disposable cash.

And what's your gross income?

Around £60,000 a year.

My father was in the merchant navy and then, latterly,

he was a maintenance fitter in the shipyards at Clydebank for most of his life.

Were you the first generation of your family to go to university?

Yes, both my brother and I attended university

and that was something that was certainly not open to my parents as a possibility.

Are you religious, Gerard?

Yes, I certainly believe in God.

Are you a regular churchgoer?

I go to Mass regularly, yes.

-How often is regularly?

-Every week. Sometimes more than that.

When I'm in the mood, on a daily basis.

I certainly try to live my life to some extent according to ethical, religious principles.

And I think probably, if anything,

it's the religious part of my formation that leads to my attitude towards money,

so quite honestly, I would rather give money to charity to some extent

than to be indulgent.

How much do you give to charity a month, would you say?

There's probably a couple of hundred quid a month that goes to miscellaneous charities -

church and other charities.

How do you make a calculation about how much to give to charity?

I don't make very precise calculations.

I'm just aware that on a monthly basis,

I can give 30 or 40 or 50 quid to this charity, to that charity,

so therefore, I let the cheques flow out.

The idea of simply too many people in the UK, let alone the wider world

who don't have their proper share of resources,

that idea is something I probably think about and am aware of every day of my life

How would you describe your current financial situation?

It's entirely comfortable. I can have a very nice bottle of malt whisky whenever I want.

I can go for nice meals with friends

I can indulge myself in guitars, which is my one real weakness, I suppose.

And apart from that, I don't need to worry too much.

Are you wealthier than your parents were?

I'm probably around three times wealthier than my parents ever were.

It is the case that I try to live fairly ethically, fairly modestly, fairly simply.

That's a kind of conscientious choice.

What would a treat in the supermarket be for you, Gerard?

It might be something a wee bit indulgent food-wise.

It might be, um...

a pizza with cheese crusts.

But the main treat for me would be a bottle of malt whisky.

I have gone as high as £90 for a bottle of malt whisky when I've been in the mood, but that's not often.

How much would you typically spend on a bottle of wine, Andy?

I always look for the ones that are half price.

How much would you spend on a bottle of wine typically?

Anything from £3.19

to £70.

I'd probably go to the pub and spend 20, 30 quid on beer and not think about it.

How much would you spend in a night in the pub, Jay?

You can't actually spend that much because I generally drink with my brother,

so we'll buy rounds and we'll end up drinking, say, six pints.

And if a pint is £3 each, then you got a kebab at the end of it,

it's the same every time we go to the pub. £22 is a night out.

That's beer and kebab. You can't go wrong, can you?

The main treats for me, apart from food,

would be spending money on guitars and music gear.

What's the most you've ever spent on a guitar?

I once flew a guitar in or had a guitar flown in from Los Angeles -

a custom-made Fender Telecaster,

which was about £1,300, and a very nice bit of kit it is too.

I'm not suggesting you're going to die soon because you're only 47,

but what are you going to do with that money, Gerard?

My late mother used to say to me, because I've got no children, "Where's all the money going to go?"

And it's a good question.

Part of me thinks I probably should just run out and spend £30,000 on guitars,

but I don't think I will quite do that.

But I would like to think that I would leave money to some kind of ethical trust

or some kind of educational purpose.

My heart's preference would be to leave money

towards scholarships for people probably from working-class backgrounds.

Tell me how you met.

-In a nightclub.

-Hmm.

-Yeah.

You were on a work do, I was on a hen do

and our eyes met...very drunkenly!

'Gary is a sergeant in the Metropolitan Police Force.

'His wife Sarah's job as a part-time manager for a travel company

'brings their combined income up to £40,000.

'The couple live in East Grinstead, have two small boys, Dominic and Joshua,

'and have been together for ten years.'

Ten years ago when you met, how much debt did you both have roughly?

A lot, yes.

-Do we want specific figures?

-I wouldn't be able to give a specific figure.

-No, not at that stage.

There was a lot of debt. Gary owned his own house, but I probably had about 20 grand's worth of debt.

-Gary, did you have as much as that?

-Probably.

'Gary and Sarah have tried to get on top of their debt and are doing what they can

'to pay it off in regular instalments.'

What are you singing, Dom? What is that?

SINGS TUNE

What is that, Dominic? Have you made that up?

Before you had Dominic, had the two of you ever had a conversation

about the possibility of having a child with a disability?

-It doesn't even occur to you.

-No. Not at all.

-It doesn't even occur.

Well done, Josh.

When Dominic was born, did you know immediately that everything was not OK?

He was eight weeks premature, so we obviously knew that he had had delays in hitting milestones.

He was a pretty healthy, robust child. Once he was out of special care, yes, we saw delays,

but we put it down to being prematur and that eight-week delay.

Then he was in hospital with a chest infection and we found out after that.

-So, yeah.

-How old was he when he...?

-Eight months.

-Eight months old.

At that point, they diagnose cerebral palsy, but they don't know the severity of the effects of it.

They do an MRI, so they can see the areas of the brain that have been impacted

and his areas were areas affecting gross motor skills, fine motor skills.

That's all they could really tell us at that stage.

# Here's Dominic standing tall

# Here's Dominic standing tall

# One, two, three, four, five

# Here's Dominic standing tall... #

'It's been over three years since Dominic was diagnosed with a permanent disability.

'Sarah and Gary are hoping that a ground-breaking operation on his spine can improve his mobility.'

The doctors said that it won't make him walk independently

but it will help him walk with a walker

because his legs get in the way and that stops him doing that.

It will help his sitting, it will help his posture, it may free up his right arm.

-'This operation is very expensive and is only available in America.'

-Thanks very much.

'On Gary and Sarah's joint income of £40,000,

'they struggle to cover the daily costs of caring for a disabled child,

'but they've had to raise an additional £60,000

'to pay for the trip to the States and the surgery.'

We did a sponsored abseil for 60 people,

parachute jumps, bucket collecting.

-A golf day.

-A golf day. A black tie event at Wentworth Golf Club.

-Sponsored runs.

-Lots of people have done sponsored runs, cycling.

-Cycles

-We did a quiz night.

-A local guy did a 24-hour motorbike challenge round the UK.

-Yeah.

-And we did a big quiz night.

-Iron Butt.

-Yeah.

-Yeah.

-And who organised all this fund-raising? That's an awful lot of work.

-We did.

-Sarah did most of it.

'Even after the operation, Dominic will still face an uncertain future.

'For Gary and Sarah, there are many unanswered questions.'

You don't know what he's going to do. Will he walk after this, will he not walk?

Will he get on with the motorised wheelchair, will he not?

Will he be able to be in a house and live on his own?

-Will he be able to drive a car?

-You think about crazy things - will he be able to drive?

-Will he be able to go to work?

-Will he get a job?

If he can't get a job, will he spend the rest of his life on benefits?

Will we be caring for him until we're really, really old?

Does it give you financial worries? Do you think, "I need to make financial provision for that"?

That is the biggest burden of it all We'll deal with Dominic and what he can't do.

We'll make his life as happy and as loved and as enjoyable as we can possibly make it,

but in order to do that, it is finances that we will have to manage

You're really running!

And at the same time, you're trying to pay off your debts from before.

-Hmm.

-That all sounds a bit overwhelming.

-Jump like a rocket.

-You're going to jump like a rocket. Good boy.

'I could probably cry my eyes out right here and now about Dominic.

'And, you know, it eats away at me every single day whenever I see a normal child.'

So what, we've got some debt?

You know... What does it matter? We'll deal with it. We're being sensible.

We're not putting our home in jeopardy or anything like that.

-We're just living our life and... Sorry.

-It's all right.

I think, what is the point in wasting your life worrying about it?

Perhaps that's burying your head in the sand

and people obsessed with their budgets will think, "This is crazy."

But actually, we've got bigger priorities.

-Two, three...

-LAUGHTER

# If I were a rich man

# Yubby dibby-dibby-dibby Dibby-dibby-dibby-dum

# All day long I'd biddy-biddy-bum

# If I were a wealthy man

# I wouldn't have to work hard

# Yubby dibby-dibby-dibby Dibby-dibby-dibby-dum

# If I were a biddy-biddy rich

# Idle-diddle-daidle-daidle man... #

LAUGHTER

-How much are your monthly mortgage payments?

-With these lovely interest rates, they're about £440, I think.

£400 a month.

-So how much are your mortgage payments a month?

-800, um... Yeah.

-Do you have a mortgage?

-No.

-Do you own it outright?

-Yes, I own it outright.

-And do you know how much your monthly mortgage payments are?

-£1,370.

Can you tell me when you were diagnosed with cancer?

Yeah, it was this time last year.

The German, um...

The consultant told me it was testicular cancer.

He was very good about organising an operation very quickly.

I've had a big advantage.

I got told about this cancer and it's been and gone. It may come back or it may not.

We're all going to die and none of us know how it's going to be, so mine has just been a wake-up call.

We don't think about it

until we're confronted with it,

then when we are confronted with it, you can decide how to deal with the rest of your life.

Did your spending change at all since the diagnosis?

Have you treated yourself more or spent money to enjoy the moment more?

I did have a little spell when I thought about doing that sort of predictable thing.

But I think I've been trying to be good with money for too long

and I did have a brief spell when the BMW M5 was sort of beckoning to me,

but these things don't change your life, really.

I think on your death bed you remember holidays, you remember entertaining,

um...friends, just moments like that,

so that's where we've tried to spend money on now.

It's easy to imagine thinking, "Don't know what's going to happen, let's go out for a lovely meal."

Um...

Yeah.

But a lovely meal is not going to put you in debt necessarily.

You know, I mean, everyone's got different scenarios.

But let's say you did £200 on a meal.

That's recoverable from.

Going out and spending too much money on a brand-new car, that's not so easy to recover from,

so I try not to do that on a regular basis.

-And would you do £200 on a meal?

-Yes.

-£40 to £50, I think, is probably the rate.

-That's a reasonable amount for you.

Without thinking about it, I would easily spend £40, £50, £60 on myself

-You don't really like eating out, do you?

-I'm not...

-You're not a foodie.

-No.

I'm nearly 61.

I'm nearly 71.

Can you explain how long you've been together and how the two of you met?

We met as I meet all my husbands, playing bridge.

One diamond.

'I'm not sure whether we took to each other immediately, but eventually, we did.'

-Did you, Stuart? Did you take to Martha-Ann immediately?

-No.

You're not playing on your own here.

Can you explain what you both do for a living?

Nothing.

We're both retired now.

We retired last year.

-What did you do for a living?

-I was a PA to a director of a mobile phone company.

-And you, Stuart?

-I was a solicitor.

'Stuart and Martha-Ann have been married for 15 years.

'They live in North London where they've downsized from a house to a flat.

'They used to be on a combined salary of £80,000,

'but having both recently retired, they're now adjusting to living on half that amount of money.'

Obviously, we have a rather lower income than we did when we were both working,

but then we don't have quite the same overheads and expenses as we did.

People say you won't need this, you won't need that and you won't need the other.

We don't buy lunches at work any more, but I still have to buy lunch for here or whatever we're doing.

We still need clothes.

I still want my make-up and my perfume and shoes and what have you,

so to be honest,

in that sense, real expenditure is no different,

but we're living on perhaps half of what we had previously.

Can you describe your average week now? Tell me the structure of your week.

On Mondays, I go out for a walk with...

It sounds dreadful. ..Age Concern!

And then Monday afternoon tends to be bridge.

The four of us get together, the fou girls get together to play bridge.

And then Tuesday evening is my lace class.

Wednesday tended to be again an exercise day.

Thursdays we've tended to keep for us.

For things that we want to do together.

And Fridays, catch as catch can, really.

And what about you, Stuart?

-What does your week look like now?

-I don't have so many activities as Martha-Ann.

On Monday afternoon, I quite frequently play bridge,

so that's what I regard Monday afternoons for.

Tuesday,

I do table tennis in the morning.

And apart from that, I don't think I have any very regular activities.

I'm much more relaxed about it.

Come on, Chris, we can win this.

How much do you spend on food, do you think?

Well, we were working it out the other day

and I think we spend somewhere between £400 and £500 a month on food, one way or another.

-Is that a lot?

-I think it is. There are only two of us living here

All right, we do entertain.

-Is it too much?

-I think so, yes.

I don't know how long we'll live and how long we've got to make this money last for.

Stuart's father was 96 and his mothe 86. That's a good, long...

You're both keeping fit and you both look very well and young for your age,

so you might have another 40 years.

Exactly. My father's 89 and still going strong.

So have you planned for that financial future?

-In theory, yes.

-No.

In theory, yes, we've got our pensions and we've...

But we've not made any extra provision. We haven't thought about having to go into care homes.

I hope it doesn't have to happen.

-And you reckon you're overspending on your income at the moment?

-I think so.

When you're drifting round the supermarket, are you thinking,

"It would be nice to have asparagus for dinner,"

or are you thinking, "It would be nice to have asparagus for dinner,

"but I'm trying not to overspend, so I'm going to buy cabbage"?

The asparagus is already in the basket!

No, I still buy the asparagus, I still buy the strawberries out of season.

There are some fruits I draw the line at buying out of season.

-Which ones?

-Cherries I won't buy out of season.

They don't taste nice and they're extortionately expensive

And similarly, things like peaches and nectarines sometimes aren't very nice.

-That's because they're not very nice, not because they're too expensive?

-It's a balance, isn't it?

If they tasted nice, I'd buy them, but because they don't and they're expensive, I won't spend the money.

Financially speaking, is this the life that you pictured for yourselves?

I don't know what financial expectations you had, but have you realised them?

'Great strike!'

I... I don't know why.

I probably thought that we would somehow...

I knew how much was coming in and I somehow thought we would be better off...

than we are.

It sounds awful because £40,000 is not an insubstantial income, 40,000-plus.

We don't lead a bad life and we live in a very nice home

and it sounds very spoiled, I suppose,

to say that it's not enough somehow.

You imagined that you would have had more?

Yes, I think more flexibility, more freedom perhaps than...

But when you ask me the question, what freedoms and flexibilities don't I have? I'm not actually sure.

Have you got a pot for Deanna if the worst should happen

or have you got a pot in case you can't work?

Are you providing for those things at the moment?

No, because they come under, in my mind, the things that are too big to deal with.

I can't start a pot up...

Well, actually, a funeral pot might be useful to have,

but you can't live life as if it's about to end or the money's about to run out.

# We're in the money

# We're in the money

# Yes, we've got a lot of what it takes to get along

# Let's spend it

# Let's lend it

# Let's spend it, lend it, send it rollin'...

# Along... #