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I wouldn't wish this. I wouldn't wish this on any teacher or any | :00:04. | :00:09. | |
child. In classrooms around Wales, there | :00:09. | :00:16. | |
are hidden dangers. Asbestos. younger someone is, the more | :00:16. | :00:18. | |
concern there is that they are getting exposed to asbestos. | :00:18. | :00:22. | |
Tonight we investigate the risks. You're aware there's this massive | :00:22. | :00:24. | |
thing that should be taken seriously. There's not a lot of | :00:24. | :00:30. | |
information about the extent of the risk. | :00:30. | :00:35. | |
There is a lack of information. There has been nothing. Are we | :00:35. | :00:41. | |
stuck with it? There's not enough money for us to do it. I just think | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
it's such a massive problem. And we ask what's being done to protect | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
our children's health. They've highlighted a problem in our | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
schools. The minister has to decide what is the safe limit going to be? | :00:49. | :00:59. | |
:00:59. | :01:09. | ||
We cannot simply turn our back on Saying their goodbyes at the end of | :01:09. | :01:19. | |
:01:19. | :01:22. | ||
another school day. Staff at Cwmcarn High School go home, but | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
they don't know when they'll be returning to teach. Earlier this | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
month, tests for asbestos found levels that were a higher than | :01:29. | :01:34. | |
normal level of asbestos at the school. Caerphilly council were | :01:34. | :01:40. | |
advised to close it. That was Friday, October the 12th and the | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
majority of the school site remains closed for the foreseeable future. | :01:44. | :01:48. | |
Nicola Young has two children at the school. Morgan, who's doing her | :01:48. | :01:53. | |
GCSEs, and 12-year-old Courtney. I just wish they would keep us | :01:53. | :02:03. | |
:02:03. | :02:06. | ||
informed. We send our children there, we expect health and safety | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
to be a priority and education should come first as well. I don't | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
like it that it's been disrupted. They should be sorting it out | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
quicker than they are doing. The school's sudden closure came as | :02:15. | :02:23. | |
a shock to parents. And a week on, there were still unanswered | :02:23. | :02:26. | |
questions and some confusion. knew about the asbestos in | :02:26. | :02:28. | |
September, because Courtney and Morgan had come home to say they | :02:28. | :02:38. | |
:02:38. | :02:38. | ||
weren't allowed in the RE block. We have always known there was | :02:38. | :02:43. | |
asbestos in the school. But we didn't think it was harmful. The | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
school said, it's OK we are getting it sorted. No letter from the | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
school, just what they've told the children and what they've told us. | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
We haven't been told what kind of asbestos is there. I don't know if | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
they don't want to frighten the parents in case it is the worst | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
case scenario, and that's why they're keeping it quiet. I don't | :02:57. | :02:59. | |
know. This family, like hundreds of | :02:59. | :03:01. | |
others in the community, are worried that their children's | :03:01. | :03:08. | |
health may have been jeopardised. Before the dangers of asbestos were | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
known, it was routinely used in schools built after the Second | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
World War. It was used in walls, ceiling and floor tiles, and to | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
insulate pipes and boilers. For decades there has been concern | :03:21. | :03:27. | |
about the health risks associated with asbestos. It can cause a form | :03:27. | :03:29. | |
of lung cancer called mesothelioma, which can take up to 40 years to | :03:29. | :03:39. | |
:03:39. | :03:40. | ||
develop after initial exposure. Today, schools in Wales are living | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
with the legacy of the problem. We asked every local authority in | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
Wales, how many schools contain asbestos. The answer? Around 1,500. | :03:49. | :03:56. | |
That's 84% of our schools, higher than the UK average. The lack of | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
action to tackle the problem was labelled a "national scandal" | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
earlier this year, by a group of MPs and peers who looked at the | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
issue. Robin Howie is a former government advisor. He's assessed | :04:04. | :04:13. | |
asbestos risks for 40 years. He says it's often behaviour in | :04:13. | :04:15. | |
schools that can make them vulnerable. Doors slamming are a | :04:16. | :04:25. | |
:04:26. | :04:33. | ||
very good way of releasing dust. And hooliganism. Punching will | :04:33. | :04:35. | |
release a lot of fibres. A lot of insulation boards contained brown | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
asbestos. Sticking a single drawing pin into a wall releases 5,000 | :04:38. | :04:44. | |
fibres into the air. Now it used to be common to pin display things on | :04:44. | :04:54. | |
:04:54. | :04:55. | ||
school walls. The Health and Safety Executive's Watch Committee said | :04:55. | :05:04. | |
this was not be done. That legal duty is to assume everything has | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
asbestos unless you know it doesn't. He argues that the current | :05:07. | :05:17. | |
:05:17. | :05:18. | ||
monitoring of asbestos in schools doesn't go far enough. The worry is | :05:18. | :05:20. | |
that the current way we manage asbestos explicitly excludes | :05:20. | :05:30. | |
:05:30. | :05:33. | ||
measuring airborne fibre levels. If we're only looking at the materials | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
which are present, not the fibre levels generated, we are looking at | :05:35. | :05:37. | |
potential for causing harm, rather than assessing the risk which is | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
the probability that harm will occur. At Cwmcarn school a series | :05:40. | :05:42. | |
of air sampling tests revealed levels of up to 0.008 fibres per | :05:42. | :05:51. | |
millilitre. Contractors working there said the levels were too high | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
and advised the school to shut immediately. The official advice | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
from the Health and Safety Executive is that asbestos, if in | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
good condition and not disturbed, should not present a significant | :05:59. | :06:05. | |
health risk. The HSE and Public Health Wales | :06:05. | :06:07. | |
told us that whilst occupational exposure limits for workers exist, | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
there is no accepted safe level for a school environment. In any event, | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
routine air testing for asbestos isn't carried out in schools. | :06:15. | :06:16. | |
That's something the biggest teachers union in Wales wants | :06:16. | :06:22. | |
changed. The case of Cwmcarn has raised the | :06:22. | :06:32. | |
:06:32. | :06:38. | ||
profile. Given we know the cost of removing it is high, what we have | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
to do is either remove it or to look at the process of regular | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
inspection and testing air samples. That's step one. Step two is to | :06:44. | :06:46. | |
ensure that the working environment and the learning environment is | :06:46. | :06:56. | |
:06:56. | :06:59. | ||
safe in those schools. 11 o'clock, Thursday morning. | :06:59. | :07:05. | |
Morgan would normally be in school studying now. But a week after her | :07:05. | :07:07. | |
school closed, and she's one of 900 pupils still off. | :07:07. | :07:17. | |
:07:17. | :07:20. | ||
Yeah, we are a bit worried. A lot of my friends are worried. It | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
foodies airborne and could raise up in 40 years, when it affect our | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
health? But we are basically worried about our GCSEs right now. | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
Despite the lie-in, Morgan is trying to keep up with her | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
schoolwork. Don't use Microsoft word, or you'll get marked down, or | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
zero marks. She's joined by her friend Elliott to do some homework. | :07:36. | :07:46. | |
Teachers are keeping in touch with them via e-mail and Twitter. | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
You don't have teachers motivating you. But what they are doing on | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
Twitter is very helpful. We would just be sat here doing nothing if | :07:54. | :08:01. | |
they hadn't set up Twitters. I'm going back on Monday. But some | :08:01. | :08:08. | |
resources will be limited. As for my sister, I don't know when she's | :08:08. | :08:18. | |
going back. Probably November the 5th, but probably not our school, | :08:18. | :08:26. | |
unless they've sorted out the asbestos in two weeks. | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
Union leader Rex Philips is on his way to a meeting with Caerphilly | :08:29. | :08:39. | |
:08:39. | :08:41. | ||
council to discuss the closure. If asbestos is going to be removed, | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
it is incumbent upon the local authority and school management to | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
tell parents. He's worried that the long term health of staff and | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
pupils at the school may have put at risk. | :08:50. | :08:52. | |
Well, there are still a lot of outstanding issues concerning the | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
threshold of testing for asbestos in schools. There's been a risk to | :08:56. | :09:06. | |
:09:06. | :09:09. | ||
members. There has been exposed to risk. We always tell our members to | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
register that because no-one knows the long-term risk. They may want | :09:13. | :09:23. | |
:09:23. | :09:33. | ||
to claim compensation for being put in that position. | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
Cwmcarn school closed after asbestos dust was found at higher | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
than normal levels. It is brown asbestos which has been found at | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
the school. Brown asbestos, amocite, is a material which is easily | :09:40. | :09:48. | |
rendered air-born. So, it's very easy to generate harmful levels of | :09:48. | :09:50. | |
exposure. Parents were told the risk of exposure to asbestos at the | :09:50. | :09:58. | |
school is low. But Mr Howie says the risk of developing the | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
mesothelioma might have increased slightly. The local councils are | :10:00. | :10:10. | |
:10:10. | :10:10. | ||
saying fibre levels are between 0.003 and 0.008 per mil. If we look | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
at fibre levels, we can see risk to 11-year-olds of developing | :10:12. | :10:20. | |
mesothelioma. The acceptable risk is one in a million, according to | :10:20. | :10:30. | |
:10:30. | :10:30. | ||
the Health and Safety Executive. That means the risk level in the | :10:30. | :10:40. | |
:10:40. | :10:50. | ||
school is 20 to 50 times higher Because of the potential dangers of | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
asbestos, any removal or demolition work can be expensive. | :10:54. | :11:00. | |
Removal always feels costly to the client. Because what do they get? A | :11:00. | :11:06. | |
hole where asbestos used to be. The operation itself should be safe, | :11:06. | :11:16. | |
:11:16. | :11:16. | ||
but you don't want people around in case it isn't. | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
At this specialist training centre, contractors are trained to deal | :11:18. | :11:20. | |
with asbestos in buildings, including schools. We have a lot of | :11:20. | :11:26. | |
buildings that went up in the 1960s and 1970s. There may be some | :11:26. | :11:28. | |
asbestos in reasonable condition, but behind that may be services, | :11:28. | :11:34. | |
electrics, plumbing, that may need servicing. And as a result it | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
becomes essential to remove asbestos to get to those services. | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
Since 2004 all schools have had to keep asbestos registers. Keeping | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
them up to date and keeping buildings safe is a constant | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
challenge. Peter Robinson wants schools and councils to do more to | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
identify asbestos risks. The younger someone is, the more | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
concern there is that they are getting exposed to asbestos. It is | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
children who are being exposed today who have got maybe 70 years | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
to live during which mesothelioma could develop. Everyone recognises | :12:06. | :12:15. | |
there's too much there. That scale is enormous. We'd never be able to | :12:15. | :12:17. | |
remove all asbestos from schools, the scale is enormous. It's | :12:17. | :12:19. | |
believed best we put every effort into finding the asbestos and | :12:19. | :12:26. | |
addressing those risks. The potential dangers have been | :12:26. | :12:36. | |
:12:36. | :12:37. | ||
known about for years. Education minister Leighton Andrews gave | :12:37. | :12:39. | |
local councils 10 days to tell him how schools are managing asbestos | :12:39. | :12:47. | |
and what they'd do in an emergency. The deadline for that information | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
was last Friday. We asked the Welsh Government if | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
they'd like to share that information with us, but they | :12:55. | :13:02. | |
refused. The right for parents to know if there's asbestos in their | :13:02. | :13:04. | |
schools, and how it's being managed, is the subject of a newly-launched | :13:04. | :13:14. | |
:13:14. | :13:15. | ||
campaign. The problem in Wales is that it has taken so long to | :13:15. | :13:22. | |
recognise the problem and get to grips with it. | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
He says he repeatedly warned the Welsh government to do something | :13:26. | :13:32. | |
about it. I'm not in government, but it's for me to point out where | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
problems are. It's for government to allay government's concerns, but | :13:34. | :13:43. | |
this issue is growing in importance. Teaching unions in Wales also | :13:43. | :13:45. | |
called on Leighton Andrews to order a comprehensive audit of asbestos | :13:45. | :13:52. | |
in schools, three years ago. Previous education ministers have | :13:52. | :13:54. | |
also been warned that hidden asbestos in crumbling Welsh schools | :13:54. | :14:02. | |
could be a hazard. Some teachers who've spent a | :14:02. | :14:04. | |
lifetime in school classrooms, fear they could be at risk of asbestos- | :14:04. | :14:14. | |
:14:14. | :14:14. | ||
related illnesses. There needs to be a policy of openness about this. | :14:14. | :14:20. | |
Parents and teachers need to know of the dangers of asbestos. | :14:21. | :14:23. | |
Carole Hagedorn had to retire early from teaching after she developed | :14:23. | :14:33. | |
:14:33. | :14:34. | ||
mesothelioma. I got the diagnosis of mesothelioma, | :14:34. | :14:36. | |
which was quite devastating, because I'd never heard of it. I | :14:36. | :14:42. | |
didn't know that it was caused by exposure to asbestos. And as a | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
teacher, I had no reason to think I would contract an industrial | :14:45. | :14:55. | |
:14:55. | :14:55. | ||
disease. I'd only ever be teacher. It was shocking. When we asked | :14:55. | :15:04. | |
about the prognosis, the doctor shrugged his shoulders. | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
I found out on internet that the usual life span is between four and | :15:07. | :15:17. | |
:15:17. | :15:29. | ||
He can will is from Essex. spent over-thirties years teaching. | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
We know that there was asbestos in several of the schools that I | :15:34. | :15:39. | |
taught in. All mesothelioma cases are very difficult because there is | :15:39. | :15:45. | |
a time-lag usually of at least 30 years between your exposure and | :15:45. | :15:53. | |
then developing the disease. Mesothelioma can be caused either | :15:53. | :16:02. | |
by a short, sharp exposure or buy it a chronic low-level exposure and | :16:02. | :16:08. | |
these things are just very difficult to prove. When first | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
diagnosed in 2008, Carole and her husband were told to expect the | :16:13. | :16:18. | |
worst. If I wouldn't wish this on any teacher or any child. It is an | :16:19. | :16:26. | |
extremely aggressive cancer. It usually kills within 18 months and | :16:26. | :16:32. | |
it does so by crushing the long, which is of course extremely | :16:32. | :16:40. | |
painful. The number of teachers dying from mesothelioma is | :16:40. | :16:47. | |
relatively small. There have been 228 cases since 1980, with 140 in | :16:47. | :16:57. | |
:16:57. | :17:01. | ||
the last 10 years. The numbers are Back to school for some. 10 days | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
after Cwmcarn High School Close, sixth-form pupils are returning to | :17:05. | :17:15. | |
:17:15. | :17:18. | ||
lessons. They are in any part of the school and affected by asbestos. | :17:18. | :17:23. | |
Three days later and the Morgan and her friends in year 11 also going | :17:23. | :17:30. | |
back to school. Morgan's sister Courtney and hundreds of other | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
pupils are still off making the most of the unexpected holiday. It | :17:34. | :17:40. | |
is really good because I get to hang out with my friends. Sometimes | :17:40. | :17:47. | |
I do a bit of homework. She thinks, I'm not in school I can go out to | :17:47. | :17:55. | |
play. Morgan does work. I am hoping it has not affected Courtney. It is | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
OK in school doing the schoolwork because teachers are there. Send | :17:59. | :18:05. | |
her home and ask her to sit at the computer is a hard job. It is not | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
just Nicola who has concerns. I caught up with a group of mothers | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
of children at Cwmcarn High School who are also worried about the | :18:13. | :18:18. | |
asbestos at the school. You are aware that it is this massive thing | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
that should be taken seriously. There is not a lot of information | :18:22. | :18:27. | |
as to the extent of the risk. is no information how it led up to | :18:27. | :18:33. | |
this point. We have no idea where it came to this point we had 900 | :18:33. | :18:38. | |
kids out of school. Today they are getting together ahead of a meeting | :18:38. | :18:45. | |
at Caerphilly council. They are saying it will take over a year to | :18:45. | :18:51. | |
remove the asbestos at a cost of �3 million. They are going back to | :18:51. | :18:54. | |
Cwmcarn High School as soon as possible and the council will be in | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
full support of that. That is what we want to hear. The parents will | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
find out what the future holds for their school. They will demand | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
answers for themselves and their children. Given the level of | :19:06. | :19:12. | |
concern about a asbestos in schools in Wales among parents, experts and | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
politicians, it is perhaps surprising that not one of the | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
public bodies responsible for this area was prepared to be interviewed | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
for this programme. Not the Welsh Local Government Association, not | :19:26. | :19:32. | |
the Health and Safety Executive, more public health Wales. However, | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
in a statement, public health Wales told us that based on asbestos | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
level readings before the school was closed, it is advise the | :19:40. | :19:47. | |
council that the risk to pupils and staff is low. The campaign to give | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
parents more information about asbestos in schools has been backed | :19:52. | :20:00. | |
by Monmouthshire County Council. It looks like we are into one of our | :20:00. | :20:07. | |
new learning plazas. This is the reception. | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
This new �7 million primary-school will open its doors to pupils for | :20:11. | :20:16. | |
the first time next week. wonderful environment and this is | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
different to the usual concept of schools because we do not have | :20:19. | :20:25. | |
classrooms. Very flexible learning spaces. This building is completely | :20:25. | :20:30. | |
free of asbestos, but that is not the case in 31 the counties. The | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
council leader says effective monitoring is the key to keeping | :20:34. | :20:41. | |
pupils and staff say. It is just important that we manage these | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
hazards and are monitoring them constantly so that we can contain | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
them. The reality is, if we want to take asbestos out of every school | :20:49. | :20:54. | |
building up there will be enough money in this country to do it. How | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
would you decant all of the children in all of our schools and | :20:57. | :21:02. | |
teach them while you remove all this stuff? So you have to be | :21:02. | :21:07. | |
sensible, take a sensible approach. You have to contain it, monitor it | :21:07. | :21:13. | |
and manage it. The council has spent millions of grading schools. | :21:13. | :21:19. | |
Getting rid of asbestos has been a priority. At this primary-school in | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
Chepstow it has cost �3,000 just to get the asbestos out. We have had | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
floor tiles all over the flaws which contained asbestos within | :21:28. | :21:34. | |
them. Also, they take that stuck them to the floor also would have | :21:34. | :21:39. | |
had it in them so that had to be removed. The council will soon | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
publish details about which schools contain asbestos and it believes | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
the public has a right to access that information. You can see the | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
potential here for enormous alarm among parents everywhere who are | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
saying, I don't want my child to go to a school where there is asbestos. | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
I can understand why people might think that which is why there is a | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
duty on us to reassure parents that we will take every step to make | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
sure their children are safe. How many parents have done an asbestos | :22:10. | :22:15. | |
assessment of their own house? And their own children live there every | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
day. The reality is, I don't know what is in someone's hours. I do | :22:19. | :22:25. | |
know what is in the school and how we are managing that and how we | :22:25. | :22:30. | |
continue to manage that. I want to reassure all of the parents in my | :22:30. | :22:35. | |
county that we are on the case. do they know how much it could cost | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
to remove asbestos from all schools? If he said tomorrow we | :22:39. | :22:45. | |
need to get rid of every ACM, I don't know what that would cost. I | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
don't think there is enough money in Wales for us to do it. It is | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
such a massive problem, that is why a robust management plans have to | :22:54. | :23:01. | |
be in place for us to manage that risk. Almost year started their | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
school improvement programme been less austere times. The fact is, if | :23:06. | :23:11. | |
all the other schools had to be repaired or replaced, the cost | :23:11. | :23:17. | |
would run into hundreds of millions of pounds. The Welsh government has | :23:17. | :23:22. | |
a school building programme called a 21st century schools. Local | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
councils say they want to spend �4.4 billion on school buildings | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
over 15 years, but the government will only give them a third of what | :23:31. | :23:36. | |
they need. There is a warning that as | :23:36. | :23:42. | |
buildings deteriorate, so the risk from asbestos could increase. | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
you have material in poor condition, if you have leaky roofs, what | :23:46. | :23:53. | |
happens is the water comes in, it flows over the tops of a ceiling | :23:53. | :23:56. | |
which is contaminated with asbestos fibres, that water will eventually | :23:56. | :24:02. | |
come into the classroom. Once that water evaporates, the fibres can be | :24:02. | :24:09. | |
airborne. Airborne fibres are what we are concerned about. 11 days | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
after Cwmcarn High School it closed, parents are trying to find out what | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
the council has decided to do about their children's education. The | :24:17. | :24:24. | |
council has called a meeting. council has agreed to accommodate | :24:24. | :24:29. | |
schools at the Ebbw Vale campus. We have approved the �1.5 million | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
funding to support the move and is clearly demonstrate our commitment | :24:33. | :24:39. | |
to resolve the issues and reduce disruption to the school. | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
asbestos survey was carried out at the school in August and on | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
September 12th, for risk assessment was ordered. The closure of four | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
classrooms followed, but the school did not shut down for another four | :24:51. | :24:56. | |
weeks. They put a time line up on the big screen. The Test started in | :24:56. | :25:02. | |
August, it is the first time any of us has in the Far -- timeline. None | :25:02. | :25:08. | |
of us were made aware of it. I put in a request last week to see | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
whether there were any tests available for the children and was | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
told that there wasn't. I think they should be something to give us | :25:15. | :25:20. | |
some indication of what the implications are for the people | :25:20. | :25:26. | |
involved and have been exposed. We need to know what is going on. | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
health implications to our children past and present. We need our minds | :25:30. | :25:39. | |
to be put to rest and to know, that is all we want. Carole Hagedorn is | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
living with the legacy of asbestos, but she wants politicians to make | :25:43. | :25:49. | |
sure that future generations of teachers and pupils don't suffer. | :25:49. | :25:56. | |
You have to have a plan to get rid of asbestos eventually. Everywhere, | :25:56. | :26:03. | |
because it is too dangerous to keep around. We know, from the figures, | :26:03. | :26:07. | |
whereas in 1983 teachers per year died of mesothelioma, the numbers | :26:07. | :26:15. | |
have now gone up to 16 teachers per year. My feeling is that | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
essentially governments don't care all that much because it is not | :26:18. | :26:28. | |
:26:28. | :26:30. | ||
So, how has the was government performed in the big asbestos test? | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
Of their dealing with it effectively? I'm sure you will | :26:33. | :26:38. | |
speak to the minister. It is for him to say what he is doing and | :26:38. | :26:43. | |
proposes to do. As far as I am concerned, their action has been | :26:43. | :26:48. | |
laid back, lackadaisical, perhaps because if they deal with it there | :26:48. | :26:54. | |
will be budgeting implications. The challenge for the minister is | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
to decide what test is going to use to determine whether the working | :26:58. | :27:03. | |
environment is safe. That is what the situation has done. They have | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
raised the bar on this now, they have highlighted the problem in our | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
schools and clearly the minister has to decide, what is the safe | :27:11. | :27:19. | |
level going to be? Despite repeated requests, the Welsh government | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
education minister, Leighton Andrews, has also declined to be | :27:22. | :27:29. | |
interviewed for this programme. When pupils return from the half- | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
term holiday, the vast majority of schools in Wales will still have an | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
asbestos problem and the authorities still have the headache | :27:36. | :27:42. | |
of how to deal with it. Concerns remain about our asbestos legacy. | :27:42. | :27:48. | |
Because children who are exposed in primary school or earlier will not | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
die from mesothelioma it until they are old age pensioners, it has lost | :27:52. | :28:00. | |
the immediacy of the response. Monday, pupils at Cwmcarn High | :28:00. | :28:05. | |
School will move temporarily to the newly built Ebbw Vale College. | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
While parents like Nicola Young have been reassured, she still has | :28:09. | :28:17. | |
worries about the future. We can't do nothing. In 10 years' time they | :28:17. | :28:21. |