Dallas to Gurnos Again... Week In Week Out


Dallas to Gurnos Again...

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here, good night. Six years ago he came to Wales and told us we were

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too easy on benefit claimants. Public officials should stop

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coddling people! That people needed to get off

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welfare and get back to work. People in the US don't have this

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sense of entitlement. We've brought him back from Dallas,

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Texas to find out if anyone listened.

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Dr Merrill Matthews is a conservative and a leading

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commentator on social affairs. He's also a big believer in the work

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ethic. I'm Merrill Matthews and I'm from

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Texas. We believe that people should be able to pull themselves up by

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their own bootstraps. Government should give people a hand up not a

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hand out. Since he was last here six years ago

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benefits have been cut, capped, and streamlined. The Coalition

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Government has introduced the Work Programme which aims to get people

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who have been unemployed for a long time into jobs.

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I've heard the UK has taken some good steps on welfare reform and I'm

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back in Wales to see how that's working.

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Six years ago when Merrill met Paul Peck at his home in Merthyr he'd

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already been on benefits for 20 years.

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Does that make you depressed? I am not depressed.

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Today, not much has changed. Paul is 52 and he hasn't worked

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since he was 26. He had a heart murmur and then he lost a leg eight

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years ago. What Labour calls the bedroom tax - and other changes in

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benefits - have left him worse off. I disagree with the bedroom tax.

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They've taken ?30 a fortnight off me, ?15 a week.

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Now you've had your benefits cut but you're still getting by? If they cut

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them more, would you go look for a job?

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Yes, I'd be fighting more to get work.

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Yes. I would think of getting work. I do get bored in the House.

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But apparently not bored enough to go out and struggle to get a job!

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Merthyr was once known as the sick note capital of Britain. Merrill

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wanted to know if Paul's estate, the Gurnos, has any job opportunities.

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Would you allow him to volunteer to get some skills? Yes. Was this hard

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to find? No. Are you looking for a job? Yes.

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So does Merrill think Paul has been looking hard enough for work during

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his 26 years on benefits. You've been 20 years on benefits,

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missing a leg, but you still were healthy.

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Yes, but no jobs out there. But then you say you haven't really

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looked for a job. No.

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Paul is clearly a personable and likeable person and has some real

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health challenges but I don't think he is trying hard enough to get a

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job. He says people don't want him, but he also admits he hasn't applied

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for any jobs. This is where the problem lies. When the Government

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makes it a little too easy for a person to be on benefits, then we

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shouldn't be surprised if a lot of people are simply satisfied with

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staying on benefits. The Government says it is getting

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tougher. It is cutting benefits, and more than a million sanctions were

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issued last year - that is withholding benefit from claimants

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who, allegedly, weren't looking hard enough for work.

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When you can you should work, because welfare should be a second

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chance and not a way of life. In the US, both Democrats and

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conservatives like Merrill have supported radical welfare reforms

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which mean that if people on benefits can't find a job the

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Government will find one for them - like it or not.

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It's lunchtime on the Gurnos and Merrill is sampling the local

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cuisine. They try to do fish 'n' chips in

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Texas. They just cannot do it. And he has one more question about

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the local jobs situation. Our women the only ones who want to apply

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here? I have jobs but it's always the

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women who apply for them, never the men. Only a couple of meals have

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applied. Why is that. People see the arm looking for jobs. You are seeing

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they do not even apply. They do not even come here and ask. How are

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you? Good. Have you ever had a cowboy hats? No.

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Employment in Merthyr's gone up by 300 since Merrill was last in town.

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A few of those jobs have been created at this metals company.

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We are expanding. We are employing 24 people and within 12 months' time

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we will imply another 12 people. -- employee. I'm having trouble getting

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welders. Phil Corke, the boss, has a problem

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finding enough skilled workers. One youngster he's taken on is Matthew,

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who'd been unemployed since leaving school.

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In the six months what was that like?

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I was desperate. I was trying jobs I didn't want to go for. Six months is

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a long time to be sitting on your backside doing nothing.

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How does it feel to have a job now? Yes, relieved, working five days a

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week now, great. The Government is trying to get people off welfare and

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it says it is keeping its side of the bargain by creating more jobs.

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Over the last year, it is Wales that has seen both the largest increase

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in the employment rate of any UK region, up 2.1 percentage points.

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And the largest decrease in the unemployment rate, bringing the

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total fall since the election to 24,000.

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This is all the result of our reforms - getting people to step up

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to their responsibilities to get back to work.

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While more are now in work, many are struggling. Rachel Stagg has two

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jobs. Only one of them is paid and it's only for ten hours a week.

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She's still on job seekers allowance and has to do a whole day's job

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search every fortnight to avoid sanctions. Back in Swansea she

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worked out for us how much better off she is working part time instead

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of living on full benefits. I am just ?2.75 a week better off.

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It's hard. I want a full-time job. If I get up to 18 hours I would be

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better off slightly. But if I do 16 hours and pay for rent and council

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tax, because that's what you have to do, I would only have ?35 more than

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I would have no. Merrill went to meet Rachel. This

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furniture was given to me. And the stable. Our friend of mine was

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drawing out the table. Tell me more about your struggles. You are

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working but it is not helping you make all your ends meet.

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No, I thought if I worked I thought I'd get more stuff for the House and

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me and my son and have a better life really. Then it just didn't work out

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as well as I thought it would. I think if I worked full time it would

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be worth working. I believe you have had to go to a food bank.

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Embarrassing to go to food bank or ask for a voucher. People expect

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when you're working you don't have to do these things. When I was on my

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actual JSA I didn't have to do these things.

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Rachel gets the bus to and from the children's nurseries where she

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works. How long is our bus ride? You are volunteering five hours a week.

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What expense does that put undue? It costs me ?70 a month bus card,

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and then I have to buy smart clothes for work, so that's extra expense

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then. Is it lifting your spirits? You have got a job. I enjoy working.

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The Government says its welfare reforms mean it now always pays to

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be in work rather than on benefits. Experts agree, but say the extra

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costs of work can make the difference tiny, especially if

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you're part time. There is a cost to working and that can offset the

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benefits of work. So politicians need to be aware of that. They need

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to be looking at that to see if they are actually sure that people who go

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into work and have their benefits cut because they do have some hours

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are in fact coming out was because of the benefits cuts.

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Rachel, who's a single mum, is one of 690,000 people in Wales living in

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households below the poverty line. But she has a job. This is poverty

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in work. So what does the Government say to

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this? The Welsh Secretary couldn't meet

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Merrill when he was here, so Merrill left him some questions.

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Hello, Mr Secretary. I am a conservative policy areas like you.

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I have been looking at your welfare and work programmes and they have

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questions. Do you believe that what you're doing is actually helping

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people? We have to understand that the policy we are considering will

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ensure that it never pays people to be out of work rather than in white.

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Universal credit which has been rolled out across the country will

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actually address that. -- rather than in the work. There is nothing

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better for people than having the structure of work and there is

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nothing more that gives people a sense of self satisfaction than

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having a pay packet. Unemployment figures are improving, but Chris

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Bryant, one of Labour's spokesmen on welfare, says the numbers conceal

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the problem of poverty in work and that's not all. We have a massive

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underemployment problem in this country. The number of people in my

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constituency who maybe have eight hours of work a week, ten hours, and

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that is not enough to pay the bills were. Now we only enough. So they

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get some support from the state. -- nowhere near enough. What impact

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credits, which have been cut, that means people are going to food

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banks. You have this bizarre situation where people are keen to

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work. They have not got enough hours and are probably not being paid very

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much for the few hours they are working and have to rely on charity

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as well as the state to put food on the table. People like Ian Purcell

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are trying to alleviate poverty in Wales. He runs five food banks

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supported by churches in Cardiff. Merrill lent him a hand at the

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warehouse. How much would they get per person? A single person would

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get ?25 worth of food lasting 3-5 days. Someone like myself yourself,

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with a good appetite, it might not last that long. Some people make of

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that last for a week. -- make the third last.

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According to those who run Wales's food banks, they're dealing with

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record numbers of people. People like Peter Nahimara. How much of a

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struggle is it? It is a big struggle. You look at the fridge and

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you do not have anything. You did not have anything in your pocket to

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buy things. The volunteers here have noticed a big increase in the number

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of people in work and in need. We're getting very busy. Five hours, it is

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50-50. Half are on benefit and half are in work. So they have work but

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not enough? The add-on zero hours. They go in one day and an employer

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might say, we do not need to tomorrow. -- they are on zero hours.

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I do not like this issue zero hours. Your only given the hours they want

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you to have. You're on zero hours? Most companies get sea levels. --

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gives evil powers. -- most companies give zero hours contracts. He is

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taking part-time jobs and has gone into the zero hours contracts

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position and he is not able to find any real work with that that

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sustains him. It seems like this is something where the politicians are

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promoting something that makes the unemployed numbers look better but

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actually isn't solving any problems and might be creating more problems

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than it solves. Your Government has recently said that you're going to

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be cutting benefits for people if they do not take zero hours

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contracts. But they seem like they are not actually achieving the goal

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and they are not helping people get into work. Some aspects of these

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contracts concern us. What concerns us particularly is where there might

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be extra 70 provisions so that people who sign up to them are

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prevented from seeking work elsewhere. We are concerned about

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that. That is why we launched a consultation some time ago. We have

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had over 30,000 responses to that consultation and we will respond to

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that consultation in the course of the next couple of months.

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Opposition politicians are asking why the Government is telling people

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to take zero hours contracts or face losing their Unemployment Benefit.

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As a committed Christian, Merrill was keen to hear what the churches

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here have been saying about Government welfare reforms.

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Archbishop. Nice to meet you. Come on in. Glorious day, isn't it? This

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is a lovely place. They even have your name on it. In case I get

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lost! These welfare cuts are hurting the

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poorest of the poor. To that extent, the kind of overall cutting benefits

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without understanding or necessarily seeing the individual impact of

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those benefits, that is where I believe the unfairness has come in.

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Churches, both Catholic and Protestant have been united in their

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opposition to the Government's benefit cuts. But Merrill says

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they're wrong. Supporting the poor is the duty of individuals he

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thinks, not the state. What is an obligation for the individual

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Christian has nothing to do with what should be an obligation of the

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Government. To say that the Christian contribution to society

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has nothing to do with the Government is my contribution and

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vice versa, it is dividing society up. Because a society, the

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Government and the churches are not engaged with one another in the

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common good, gaps emerge through which people will fall.

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The church is concerned that the Government is cutting back benefits

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and that at people. I'm a Christian too. And in the US, we think that

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giving should be an individual's responsibility, not a government's.

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In addition, the churches often require something. If they provide a

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meal, they require the person to listen to a sermon. It creates a

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connection between what the person is getting and what they are giving.

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That is the way benefits programme should be established. If the UK

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Government isn't doing that, it should.

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In other words, Merrill believes that in return for support from the

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state, people claiming benefits should do some work, even if it's

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unpaid. Lee Jeffs is doing just that in the Pontrypridd area. I was a job

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club and job searching and they asked volunteers and I said I was

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willing. Glyncoch Regeneration and the local council run a recycling

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scheme that funds itself with the help of volunteers. Not getting paid

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for it, but it is voluntary. I am not paid to work. Lee has had some

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mental health and alcohol issues but he's determined that this time he's

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going to get a job and stick with it. Just hoping something will come

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out of it. It is better than being stuck in the house all day. I want

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to get out and do stuff. I would obviously be fair trade work but at

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the moment I cannot get a job that is paid so I do voluntary to get

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myself into full-time work. No pay, low pay, part-time

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contracts. But Merrill believes the answer to poverty in work isn't to

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raise wages, like some suggest. He doesn't even believe in a national

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minimum wage. To show us why, he took us back to

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that small company in Merthyr where Matthew Davies works. Phil Corke's

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workforce earns good wages, but he says he could take on more

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youngsters if it weren't for the minimum wage. We would like to

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employ more young people. Uses the blood of industry but we are having

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these Government rules put on us like the minimum wage and everything

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else at the moment. Legislation. You used to hire more people, didn't

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you? We certainly did. Before the minimum wage, we hired more

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youngsters and train them and they went on to better things perhaps.

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When they have got the skills, we can obviously afford to pay them.

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But in the interim, there is a big training programme that we have to

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follow to get into the level we require. Independent experts say the

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national minimum wage doesn't affect employment, but Merrill agrees with

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Phil. What is happening here is that the Government is trying to do good

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things but is in fact getting in the way of job creation. Because small

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and medium-sized businesses, those of the job generators in both the UK

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and the US. They create the most jobs. But they do not have the

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assets to be able to pay large salaries. They need to bring someone

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in at a lower price and raise that when the person becomes skilled.

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Average unemployment is under 7%, but youth unemployment is between

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two and three times higher than that. Merrill says the Government

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should subsidise employers to take on youngsters. Matthew Davies owes

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his job here in fact to one such scheme. Matthew has gone onto the

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Jobs Growth Wales programme where he has been supported for six months.

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After that period, as long as he kicks all the boxes, which he has

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done so far, we give them an apprenticeship and train him as an

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engineer. The Welsh Government scheme gives

:24:13.:24:15.

the employer enough money to pay a young person's wages for six months,

:24:16.:24:19.

providing the boss agrees to find them a permanent job in the end. You

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have got people on benefits. The question is, how'd you the person

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transitioning from benefits. They will be taking the money anyway.

:24:30.:24:32.

Using Jobs Growth Wales allows them to try out skills, get that

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experience, see if it works, and if it does, they have a new good

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employee and the unemployed worker finally has a job.

:24:42.:24:48.

While the UK Government has been getting tougher on claims for

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benefits, it's also introduced the Work Programme to help people get

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jobs. We took Merrill to Glyncoch to see how it's operating. The first

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person he met was Lee Jeffs. We saw him earlier doing voluntary work.

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Lee Jeffs. Looks like you got me some good Welsh weather!

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He got that post with the help of this community centre and its Welsh

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Government-backed schemes. Paul Stepczack is in charge. These are

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just some of our learners. They are here or any basic skills course at

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the moment to help with numeracy and literacy. We have, in the area

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alone, about 150 different adult learners on our books. They gain in

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the region of 400 qualifications a year at all levels. Lee came to us

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because we also run the job club, and from assessing Lee's needs, we

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found a number of courses which could help him into employment. One

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of those courses results in a qualification to work on a

:25:53.:25:55.

construction site, known as the CSCS Card. Lee says that got him a

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labouring job a few years ago, but since he's been on the Work

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Programme, he's had no real help to find employment. It did not work

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well for you? Noel. I am leaving now so I can move onto something else

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and actually do something. I have been out of a job since being in the

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Work Programme. Paul Stepczak says he's seen a lot

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of job-seekers who are considered to be too hard to place by the Work

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Programme, so aren't helped at all. We have seen and have actually have

:26:32.:26:34.

some employees mention the traffic light system. That is where people

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are marked as clean, amber and read. If your green, you unemployable and

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you're given support and help on your way. If you read, people are

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further from the market. -- if you are red. In my experience,

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unfortunate, those people have been put in the draw. -- in the draw.

:26:58.:27:04.

Fewer than 11% of people on the Work Programme got a job after 12 months.

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But the Welsh Secretary says the programme is working. The Work

:27:09.:27:10.

Programme is aimed at the 10% of those cases that are most difficult.

:27:11.:27:13.

That has started to prove very effective in Wales. Back in

:27:14.:27:17.

December, we did an analysis and found 12,000 people who had been off

:27:18.:27:26.

work and had then found employment. I think overall the Work Programme

:27:27.:27:30.

is starting to prove its worth. How are you? Good seeing you. Nice

:27:31.:27:35.

meeting you. It's a long way from Texas, but

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after his mosey through the valleys and taking a long, hard look at our

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work and benefits system, what does Merrill think about it?

:27:44.:27:50.

The last time I was in Wales, the Government was looking at welfare

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reform in order to get people back to work. Well, I have been back and

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looked at those efforts and they have made some steps in the right

:27:59.:28:01.

direction but there are a lot of improvements that need to be made.

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A Texas conservative he might be, but his conclusion is that

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individuals do need help and that Government has to do more than cut

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benefits. It must also keep its side of the bargain, and this is his

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final message. There are many people out there who

:28:24.:28:26.

really want to find a job and go to work. It is time for the elected

:28:27.:28:31.

officials to go to work to ensure that they can.

:28:32.:28:36.

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