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Deepcut was a place of fear. | 0:00:02 | 0:00:04 | |
It's where four young soldiers were shot dead. | 0:00:04 | 0:00:06 | |
One of them was Welsh recruit Cheryl James. | 0:00:06 | 0:00:09 | |
But did she pull the trigger? | 0:00:10 | 0:00:12 | |
We hear from those who knew her. | 0:00:12 | 0:00:15 | |
I can't put Cheryl's state of mind and suicide together. | 0:00:15 | 0:00:19 | |
Still, to now, it doesn't make sense to me. | 0:00:19 | 0:00:21 | |
We follow Cheryl's parents through her inquest. | 0:00:21 | 0:00:24 | |
They took on the army in a 20-year fight for the truth. | 0:00:24 | 0:00:28 | |
People don't want to be honest | 0:00:28 | 0:00:30 | |
and don't want to be straightforward with you, | 0:00:30 | 0:00:32 | |
and I just don't imagine that any parent could walk away from it. | 0:00:32 | 0:00:36 | |
And this week, as they prepare for the verdict, allegations of sexual | 0:00:36 | 0:00:40 | |
abuse and bullying still overshadow the camp. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:43 | |
I know lots of women who were sexually and physically assaulted. | 0:00:43 | 0:00:48 | |
If my dad had any idea what had gone on in that camp, | 0:00:48 | 0:00:53 | |
I tell you, he'd have gone to jail. | 0:00:53 | 0:00:55 | |
Tonight, there are calls for a new investigation into the truth | 0:00:55 | 0:00:58 | |
of what happened to others behind the wire. | 0:00:58 | 0:01:01 | |
People have never been held to account. | 0:01:01 | 0:01:03 | |
-Are you saying that we should deal with that? -Yes, I am. | 0:01:03 | 0:01:07 | |
This is Cheryl James training to become a soldier. | 0:01:20 | 0:01:23 | |
These pictures have never been broadcast before. | 0:01:23 | 0:01:27 | |
Cheryl was 18. | 0:01:27 | 0:01:28 | |
She'd left home in Llangollen to start an army life. | 0:01:28 | 0:01:31 | |
During her basic training, there was no hint | 0:01:31 | 0:01:34 | |
of what was to follow at Deepcut. | 0:01:34 | 0:01:35 | |
'Keep going!' | 0:01:35 | 0:01:37 | |
Cheryl... It's like everything else, | 0:01:37 | 0:01:40 | |
she had to do it fast forward, you know? | 0:01:40 | 0:01:43 | |
There was no in-between. | 0:01:43 | 0:01:44 | |
She liked to do exciting things and I think the Forces | 0:01:45 | 0:01:49 | |
probably was the thing that offered that for her. | 0:01:49 | 0:01:53 | |
And it would be a safe place that she would be, you know, | 0:01:53 | 0:01:57 | |
taken care of. | 0:01:57 | 0:01:59 | |
At this checkpoint, Cheryl was on guard with a rifle. | 0:02:07 | 0:02:11 | |
It was against regulations for her to be there alone. | 0:02:11 | 0:02:14 | |
But those running Deepcut say they didn't know. | 0:02:15 | 0:02:18 | |
What happened next is a mystery, but one thing is clear. | 0:02:19 | 0:02:23 | |
Cheryl went into the woods | 0:02:24 | 0:02:26 | |
and was found dead with a single bullet wound to the head. | 0:02:26 | 0:02:29 | |
It was as if the world had just stopped. | 0:02:31 | 0:02:35 | |
And the first thing they said was that she'd taken her own life. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:40 | |
And I thought, this is... | 0:02:42 | 0:02:43 | |
This can't be right, this can't be Cheryl. | 0:02:43 | 0:02:45 | |
It's the wrong person. It's got to be. | 0:02:45 | 0:02:47 | |
And that's how it started. | 0:02:49 | 0:02:50 | |
From then on, we were kept in the dark about everything. | 0:02:50 | 0:02:54 | |
Military and Surrey police officers who went to the scene | 0:02:56 | 0:03:00 | |
quickly decided this was suicide. | 0:03:00 | 0:03:03 | |
Forensic evidence wasn't gathered, her gun wasn't tested | 0:03:03 | 0:03:07 | |
for fingerprints and potential witnesses weren't questioned. | 0:03:07 | 0:03:11 | |
The MoD told her parents that Cheryl was unhappy. | 0:03:12 | 0:03:15 | |
She wanted to leave the army and was torn between two boyfriends. | 0:03:15 | 0:03:19 | |
But her parents argued there was no hard evidence to back | 0:03:19 | 0:03:23 | |
the theory that she'd killed herself. | 0:03:23 | 0:03:25 | |
It's the first day of Cheryl's new inquest. | 0:03:28 | 0:03:31 | |
The media is gathering in Woking. | 0:03:31 | 0:03:33 | |
Her father, Des, | 0:03:34 | 0:03:36 | |
will spend the next two months in a hotel as the case is heard. | 0:03:36 | 0:03:39 | |
I didn't think today was the day to wear a red tie or a blue tie | 0:03:41 | 0:03:44 | |
or a green tie. | 0:03:44 | 0:03:45 | |
Today was the day to wear a black tie. | 0:03:45 | 0:03:47 | |
Symbolically, it's my last day of mourning. | 0:03:47 | 0:03:50 | |
We're not mourning any more now, we're fighting. | 0:03:50 | 0:03:53 | |
He believes this could be his last chance to get at the truth. | 0:03:53 | 0:03:56 | |
Yeah, that's where we are. | 0:03:56 | 0:03:58 | |
-'Are you ready to go?' -I am indeed. | 0:03:58 | 0:04:00 | |
-HE CHUCKLES -As ready as I'll ever be. | 0:04:00 | 0:04:02 | |
The inquest was always going to be high profile, | 0:04:04 | 0:04:07 | |
because it's taken the couple 20 years to force the MoD | 0:04:07 | 0:04:10 | |
and Surrey Police to answer for their actions. | 0:04:10 | 0:04:13 | |
Doreen was too ill to go to the inquest. | 0:04:14 | 0:04:17 | |
She's at home in Llanymynech in Montgomeryshire, | 0:04:17 | 0:04:20 | |
recovering from back surgery. | 0:04:20 | 0:04:21 | |
-'Do you wish Doreen was here with you?' -Yeah, I do indeed, yeah. | 0:04:21 | 0:04:25 | |
She won't be blubbing, she's a lot stronger than me, I promise you. | 0:04:25 | 0:04:28 | |
So... | 0:04:28 | 0:04:30 | |
She... That's all she says is... Just, you know, be strong. | 0:04:30 | 0:04:33 | |
I think we have more support than people | 0:04:35 | 0:04:40 | |
thinking that we're just, you know... | 0:04:40 | 0:04:42 | |
..grieving parents that won't let go. | 0:04:44 | 0:04:46 | |
Deepcut is a former training camp in Surrey that's become | 0:04:58 | 0:05:02 | |
synonymous with scandal. | 0:05:02 | 0:05:03 | |
Cheryl was the second recruit to die of gunshot wounds in 1995. | 0:05:04 | 0:05:09 | |
Sean Benton died five months before her. | 0:05:10 | 0:05:13 | |
Then in 2001, Geoff Gray. | 0:05:13 | 0:05:16 | |
And in 2002, James Collinson. | 0:05:17 | 0:05:19 | |
According to the army, they all committed suicide. | 0:05:21 | 0:05:25 | |
Their families didn't believe that, though, | 0:05:25 | 0:05:27 | |
and the human rights group Liberty joined their fight. | 0:05:27 | 0:05:30 | |
This is a very, very important human rights case. | 0:05:34 | 0:05:37 | |
It's because there was a lack of independence and a lack | 0:05:37 | 0:05:40 | |
of rigour in the investigation of this young woman's death. | 0:05:40 | 0:05:43 | |
Liberty, who represent the Jameses, | 0:05:43 | 0:05:45 | |
say there was a deeply flawed investigation. | 0:05:45 | 0:05:48 | |
Surrey Police should have led the inquiry. | 0:05:48 | 0:05:51 | |
Instead, they let the military police do it | 0:05:51 | 0:05:53 | |
on the assumption of suicide. | 0:05:53 | 0:05:55 | |
Within three weeks, there was an inquest. | 0:05:55 | 0:05:58 | |
That inquest lasted less than one hour. | 0:05:58 | 0:06:00 | |
Barely any witnesses were called to attend. | 0:06:02 | 0:06:04 | |
Cheryl's medical records were not examined, | 0:06:04 | 0:06:07 | |
key witnesses were not called, | 0:06:07 | 0:06:09 | |
the family were left completely reeling and they were stonewalled. | 0:06:09 | 0:06:13 | |
The coroner at the first inquest returned an open verdict, | 0:06:15 | 0:06:19 | |
but a few weeks later, an army board of inquiry, | 0:06:19 | 0:06:22 | |
which didn't even involve Des and Doreen, | 0:06:22 | 0:06:24 | |
decided it was suicide after all. | 0:06:24 | 0:06:26 | |
The weekend before Cheryl died, she was meant to go home, | 0:06:31 | 0:06:34 | |
but phoned her mother instead to say she'd been put on guard duty. | 0:06:34 | 0:06:39 | |
There were no tears. | 0:06:39 | 0:06:40 | |
You know, I could only see... | 0:06:40 | 0:06:43 | |
I couldn't see what was going on, I could hear... | 0:06:43 | 0:06:47 | |
um, her voice, but you know, you hope you know your own child, | 0:06:47 | 0:06:53 | |
if they're distressed, you know there'll be a quiver or pauses. | 0:06:53 | 0:06:58 | |
But there was nothing like that. | 0:06:58 | 0:07:00 | |
Cheryl and her brother were adopted by the Jameses | 0:07:02 | 0:07:05 | |
when she was 17 months old. | 0:07:05 | 0:07:07 | |
Her parents say she grew into a bubbly, confident girl. | 0:07:07 | 0:07:12 | |
But the army and police have suggested that Cheryl might | 0:07:12 | 0:07:15 | |
have been affected by the suicide of her cousin a few years earlier. | 0:07:15 | 0:07:19 | |
And that she was unhappy. | 0:07:19 | 0:07:21 | |
It was a happy home and we enjoyed the children and, you know, | 0:07:21 | 0:07:26 | |
for people to make it look like an unhappy home, just because | 0:07:26 | 0:07:30 | |
it fits a point that they're trying to put over in this inquest, | 0:07:30 | 0:07:35 | |
you know, it's not fair. | 0:07:35 | 0:07:36 | |
After winning a second inquest at the High Court, | 0:07:39 | 0:07:42 | |
Cheryl's parents are asking this coroner, Judge Brian Barker, | 0:07:42 | 0:07:46 | |
to consider could she have been shot by someone else? | 0:07:46 | 0:07:49 | |
Or, if she took her own life, | 0:07:50 | 0:07:52 | |
could the culture at Deepcut have been a factor? | 0:07:52 | 0:07:55 | |
109 witnesses have been asked to give evidence, | 0:07:55 | 0:07:58 | |
and one of them was former recruit Gavin Trearty. | 0:07:58 | 0:08:02 | |
And here you are on a parade, this all looks very smart | 0:08:02 | 0:08:05 | |
-and everybody's well... -Well-drilled. | 0:08:05 | 0:08:07 | |
A well-drilled line there, isn't it? | 0:08:07 | 0:08:09 | |
And that's after ten weeks. | 0:08:09 | 0:08:11 | |
He was going out with Cheryl's best friend at Deepcut | 0:08:11 | 0:08:14 | |
and he says Cheryl seemed happy. | 0:08:14 | 0:08:16 | |
She was less than shoulder-high to me, | 0:08:18 | 0:08:20 | |
so always looking up, smiley, curly hair... | 0:08:20 | 0:08:24 | |
Nice eyes. You know, just... It's all there, just, yeah, lovely. | 0:08:24 | 0:08:28 | |
Cheryl had two boyfriends. | 0:08:29 | 0:08:31 | |
Some witnesses told the inquest she was upset about her private life. | 0:08:31 | 0:08:35 | |
Another described her commenting | 0:08:35 | 0:08:37 | |
about how easy it would be to shoot herself. | 0:08:37 | 0:08:40 | |
Gavin saw Cheryl the night before she died. | 0:08:40 | 0:08:43 | |
I can't put Cheryl's state of mind and suicide together, you know? | 0:08:43 | 0:08:47 | |
They didn't... | 0:08:47 | 0:08:49 | |
Still, to now, it doesn't make sense to me, | 0:08:49 | 0:08:51 | |
that somebody who could be that bubbly the day before, | 0:08:51 | 0:08:54 | |
to do that the day after never sat right. | 0:08:54 | 0:08:57 | |
I, along with probably everybody else, just assumed that | 0:08:59 | 0:09:02 | |
they'd investigated it and that's what they'd come to, yeah. | 0:09:02 | 0:09:06 | |
You know, at 17, you're not going to start saying, | 0:09:07 | 0:09:10 | |
"But have you looked at this and have you looked at that?" | 0:09:10 | 0:09:13 | |
Do you think anyone really wanted to know what you had to say? | 0:09:13 | 0:09:15 | |
Oh, no, no, definitely not. No. | 0:09:15 | 0:09:18 | |
Military and civilian officers admitted there were flaws | 0:09:18 | 0:09:21 | |
in the original investigation. | 0:09:21 | 0:09:23 | |
One retired Surrey police inspector told the inquest if he was | 0:09:23 | 0:09:27 | |
asked to investigate again, he'd do things differently. | 0:09:27 | 0:09:31 | |
After the fourth death, that of James Collinson in 2002, | 0:09:31 | 0:09:35 | |
the families of the dead recruits | 0:09:35 | 0:09:37 | |
and the media were demanding to know what was going on at the camp. | 0:09:37 | 0:09:42 | |
Surrey Police began reinvestigating the deaths and it wasn't | 0:09:42 | 0:09:46 | |
until then that they interviewed Gavin about what he remembered. | 0:09:46 | 0:09:50 | |
The impression I got was that it was just to gather information | 0:09:50 | 0:09:54 | |
to build a picture, but we were told | 0:09:54 | 0:09:55 | |
it was still a suicide investigation. | 0:09:55 | 0:09:58 | |
No-one was being accused of anything or there was no | 0:09:58 | 0:10:01 | |
suspicious circumstances. It was as was. | 0:10:01 | 0:10:04 | |
So this wasn't an open inquiry, | 0:10:04 | 0:10:06 | |
exploring other avenues, other leads? | 0:10:06 | 0:10:08 | |
No, no. It was a suicide before and it was a suicide afterwards, | 0:10:08 | 0:10:13 | |
spoken as well, we never got the feeling of anything different. | 0:10:13 | 0:10:16 | |
At the latest inquest, the Surrey Police legal team said the | 0:10:18 | 0:10:22 | |
reinvestigation had been thorough, professional and open-minded. | 0:10:22 | 0:10:26 | |
But for two decades, | 0:10:27 | 0:10:28 | |
Cheryl's parents have never stopped wondering and challenging. | 0:10:28 | 0:10:32 | |
By asking questions about what had happened to Cheryl, | 0:10:32 | 0:10:35 | |
they'd also found more. | 0:10:35 | 0:10:36 | |
A lot more. | 0:10:37 | 0:10:39 | |
Including allegations of serious physical and sexual abuse | 0:10:39 | 0:10:43 | |
against other recruits. | 0:10:43 | 0:10:44 | |
Some told police they had been bullied and even raped by those | 0:10:44 | 0:10:48 | |
whose duty it was to supervise them and turn them into soldiers. | 0:10:48 | 0:10:52 | |
Over the years, calls for a public enquiry | 0:10:56 | 0:10:58 | |
into what happened at Deepcut have been rejected. | 0:10:58 | 0:11:01 | |
This coroner decided Cheryl's inquest wasn't the place | 0:11:02 | 0:11:05 | |
to hear the wider allegations of abuse either. | 0:11:05 | 0:11:08 | |
But those who say they suffered won't be silenced. | 0:11:09 | 0:11:12 | |
I remember standing there taking that photograph. | 0:11:15 | 0:11:17 | |
God, I look dead young. | 0:11:19 | 0:11:20 | |
I wanted to spend my whole life, | 0:11:21 | 0:11:23 | |
it just seemed my whole life was the Army. | 0:11:23 | 0:11:25 | |
And I didn't want anything else. | 0:11:26 | 0:11:27 | |
Janette Lang passed through Deepcut a few months | 0:11:29 | 0:11:31 | |
before Cheryl arrived in 1995. | 0:11:31 | 0:11:34 | |
The Army was going through big changes at the time. | 0:11:35 | 0:11:38 | |
Women were beginning to train | 0:11:38 | 0:11:40 | |
and serve alongside men for the first time in its history. | 0:11:40 | 0:11:43 | |
I was very fit. I worked hard. | 0:11:44 | 0:11:46 | |
In fact, I worked probably harder than most of the lads | 0:11:47 | 0:11:49 | |
because I had something to prove. | 0:11:49 | 0:11:51 | |
At Deepcut, there weren't enough instructors to look after | 0:11:54 | 0:11:56 | |
the hundreds of young trainees. | 0:11:56 | 0:11:59 | |
Janette says some NCOs abused their power | 0:11:59 | 0:12:02 | |
to have sex with recruits, strictly against Army rules. | 0:12:02 | 0:12:06 | |
There was girls that were consenting | 0:12:07 | 0:12:09 | |
and then there was the ones that didn't consent. | 0:12:09 | 0:12:11 | |
And their life was hell. | 0:12:12 | 0:12:13 | |
The NCOs in question, they were all walking around | 0:12:15 | 0:12:18 | |
like Cock of the North. | 0:12:18 | 0:12:20 | |
Like, during the daytime, they'd look at the girls as if to say, | 0:12:20 | 0:12:23 | |
"I know what you did last night | 0:12:23 | 0:12:25 | |
"and I know what you're going to get again tonight," kind of thing. | 0:12:25 | 0:12:28 | |
The girls'd all be crapping themselves. | 0:12:28 | 0:12:30 | |
While I was at that camp, I knew of a woman who was raped. | 0:12:32 | 0:12:34 | |
This NCO had been harassing her for a while. | 0:12:35 | 0:12:38 | |
One night he went in... | 0:12:41 | 0:12:42 | |
..to the room. | 0:12:43 | 0:12:44 | |
And we were all out. | 0:12:46 | 0:12:47 | |
Forced himself on her. | 0:12:48 | 0:12:49 | |
It changed her as a person obviously. | 0:12:51 | 0:12:53 | |
And not long after that, then she got posted out. | 0:12:54 | 0:12:57 | |
She says the rape allegation was never officially reported | 0:12:58 | 0:13:01 | |
to the Army or police, because her friend was too scared. | 0:13:01 | 0:13:05 | |
I know of lots of women who were sexually | 0:13:06 | 0:13:11 | |
and physically assaulted. | 0:13:11 | 0:13:12 | |
Myself included, more physically. | 0:13:12 | 0:13:15 | |
Mentally abused. | 0:13:16 | 0:13:18 | |
She says many felt there was nowhere to turn for support. | 0:13:19 | 0:13:22 | |
If you want to put in an official complaint, | 0:13:23 | 0:13:25 | |
then you'll go through the chain of command. | 0:13:25 | 0:13:27 | |
And the chain of command started with the NCOs who were doing | 0:13:27 | 0:13:31 | |
all the trouble in the first place, so... | 0:13:31 | 0:13:34 | |
that is basically where it started and ended. | 0:13:34 | 0:13:37 | |
For years the MoD denied | 0:13:39 | 0:13:40 | |
there was a problem with the culture at Deepcut. | 0:13:40 | 0:13:43 | |
Cheryl James's parents were told, when she died, | 0:13:43 | 0:13:46 | |
there was no bullying or disciplinary issues at the barracks. | 0:13:46 | 0:13:49 | |
And Janette says, 20 years ago, her parents had no idea either. | 0:13:50 | 0:13:55 | |
If my dad knew then... | 0:13:55 | 0:13:57 | |
..had any idea what had gone on in that camp, | 0:13:59 | 0:14:02 | |
I tell you, he would have gone to jail. | 0:14:02 | 0:14:04 | |
And that's the truth. | 0:14:05 | 0:14:06 | |
Cos my dad never brought me up to put up with that. | 0:14:07 | 0:14:10 | |
They've got away with everything. | 0:14:12 | 0:14:14 | |
They did what they did with them young girls. | 0:14:14 | 0:14:17 | |
And they've carried on as normal. | 0:14:18 | 0:14:20 | |
They've soldiered on as normal. | 0:14:20 | 0:14:22 | |
Stories like Janette's only began to emerge from Deepcut | 0:14:26 | 0:14:29 | |
during the reinvestigation by Surrey Police in 2002. | 0:14:29 | 0:14:33 | |
They traced hundreds of recruits who'd passed through Deepcut | 0:14:35 | 0:14:38 | |
since the mid-1990s and what they were told was disturbing. | 0:14:38 | 0:14:43 | |
There were scores of allegations | 0:14:43 | 0:14:45 | |
about serious sexual and physical abuse, | 0:14:45 | 0:14:48 | |
the sheer skill of which wasn't made public | 0:14:48 | 0:14:51 | |
until four years later when Nicholas Blake QC carried out a review. | 0:14:51 | 0:14:56 | |
So, what had Surrey Police done about it? | 0:14:57 | 0:14:59 | |
Well, they wouldn't say then and they won't say now. | 0:14:59 | 0:15:03 | |
And despite our repeated requests, they refused to tell us | 0:15:03 | 0:15:07 | |
if any of those accused have been questioned or prosecuted. | 0:15:07 | 0:15:11 | |
I think it's absolutely imperative that we get | 0:15:12 | 0:15:14 | |
to the truth of what has happened. | 0:15:14 | 0:15:17 | |
Bridgend MP Madeline Moon sits on the House of Commons | 0:15:17 | 0:15:20 | |
Defence Select Committee. | 0:15:20 | 0:15:22 | |
And she's been challenging the MoD over bullying | 0:15:22 | 0:15:25 | |
and the way it treats recruits for years. | 0:15:25 | 0:15:27 | |
She says it's time the police and Army | 0:15:28 | 0:15:31 | |
gave the full facts about Deepcut. | 0:15:31 | 0:15:33 | |
If they carried out a service enquiry, | 0:15:34 | 0:15:37 | |
I'd understand why they wouldn't explain that. | 0:15:37 | 0:15:39 | |
Because that, in a sense, would have been the right thing to do. | 0:15:41 | 0:15:45 | |
If, instead... | 0:15:48 | 0:15:49 | |
..all of that evidence was put in a box and put on a shelf | 0:15:50 | 0:15:53 | |
and walked away from... | 0:15:53 | 0:15:54 | |
..then justice hasn't been done. | 0:15:57 | 0:16:00 | |
To anyone. | 0:16:00 | 0:16:01 | |
It was a Labour government that commissioned the Blake Review. | 0:16:03 | 0:16:06 | |
The dossier contains allegations from the mid-'90s to 2002. | 0:16:06 | 0:16:11 | |
Rape, indecent assault and violent attacks are listed. | 0:16:11 | 0:16:16 | |
One woman claimed she was gang raped. | 0:16:16 | 0:16:18 | |
The review found clear evidence of foul abuse | 0:16:19 | 0:16:22 | |
and a failure to identify potential risks to recruits. | 0:16:22 | 0:16:26 | |
But it couldn't force witnesses to give evidence. | 0:16:26 | 0:16:28 | |
It wasn't a public enquiry. | 0:16:28 | 0:16:31 | |
And that, to Des James and to other families, | 0:16:31 | 0:16:34 | |
makes it a flawed document. | 0:16:34 | 0:16:37 | |
Do you regret that when the opportunity arose that | 0:16:37 | 0:16:41 | |
that wasn't made into a full public enquiry? | 0:16:41 | 0:16:44 | |
With the benefit of hindsight, they should... | 0:16:44 | 0:16:48 | |
There should have been a more open and more transparent investigation | 0:16:48 | 0:16:52 | |
of what happened at Deepcut. | 0:16:52 | 0:16:54 | |
Des and Doreen wanted to know was Cheryl being bullied or | 0:16:56 | 0:16:59 | |
sexually harassed and could that have driven her to suicide? | 0:16:59 | 0:17:03 | |
One shocking new allegation for her parents to endure | 0:17:05 | 0:17:08 | |
was that this man, former troop sergeant Andrew Gavaghan, | 0:17:08 | 0:17:12 | |
had ordered Cheryl to have sex with a fellow soldier. | 0:17:12 | 0:17:15 | |
Both the men vehemently denied it at the inquest. | 0:17:16 | 0:17:20 | |
Their accuser, Mark Beards, a former recruit, | 0:17:20 | 0:17:23 | |
was described by Surrey Police as a liar and a fantasist. | 0:17:23 | 0:17:27 | |
Former Sgt Gavaghan told the inquest he didn't know Cheryl | 0:17:28 | 0:17:32 | |
and had never bullied her. | 0:17:32 | 0:17:34 | |
And there's no conclusive evidence | 0:17:34 | 0:17:36 | |
anyone sexually abused her at Deepcut. | 0:17:36 | 0:17:38 | |
The base is still the home of the Royal Logistics Corps, | 0:17:40 | 0:17:43 | |
although the base is no longer used for training. | 0:17:43 | 0:17:46 | |
Much might have changed here, but the brigadier | 0:17:47 | 0:17:49 | |
now in charge of Army's personal services department, John Donnelly, | 0:17:49 | 0:17:52 | |
came to the inquest to make a dramatic admission. | 0:17:52 | 0:17:55 | |
Brigadier Donnelly apologised to the Jameses | 0:17:56 | 0:17:59 | |
for past failures at Deepcut. | 0:17:59 | 0:18:01 | |
He admitted that there hadn't been enough staff | 0:18:01 | 0:18:04 | |
to look after young recruits, | 0:18:04 | 0:18:06 | |
and that some NCOs had exceeded their powers | 0:18:06 | 0:18:09 | |
by handing out guard duty as a form of punishment. | 0:18:09 | 0:18:12 | |
He also admitted that Cheryl should never have been told | 0:18:14 | 0:18:16 | |
to go on guard duty alone with a weapon. | 0:18:16 | 0:18:19 | |
It broke the rules, and the risks hadn't been known at the time. | 0:18:19 | 0:18:23 | |
For that, he said, he was sorry. | 0:18:24 | 0:18:26 | |
It was a big moment for Des, who's waited years for answers. | 0:18:30 | 0:18:34 | |
I accepted and I shook hands with Brigadier Donnelly, | 0:18:36 | 0:18:40 | |
because I do think that he's trying very, very hard | 0:18:40 | 0:18:43 | |
to make the changes that are needed. | 0:18:43 | 0:18:45 | |
But, you know, we mustn't lose sight of the fact that they knew | 0:18:47 | 0:18:51 | |
everything that they knew on the first day of the inquest. | 0:18:51 | 0:18:54 | |
To allow them to apologise... | 0:18:54 | 0:18:56 | |
They knew ten years earlier in Blake, | 0:18:56 | 0:18:58 | |
so why have we spent ten years of MoD denial? | 0:18:58 | 0:19:01 | |
That's the question there. | 0:19:01 | 0:19:03 | |
But at the inquest, Des came in for criticism. | 0:19:03 | 0:19:05 | |
John Beggs, barrister for Surrey Police, | 0:19:06 | 0:19:08 | |
suggested that in criticising its reinvestigation in 2002, | 0:19:08 | 0:19:13 | |
he'd distracted the Force during its hunt for the killer | 0:19:13 | 0:19:16 | |
of schoolgirl Milly Dowler. | 0:19:16 | 0:19:17 | |
That's a really shocking statement. | 0:19:18 | 0:19:21 | |
I can... | 0:19:21 | 0:19:22 | |
SHE SIGHS | 0:19:24 | 0:19:25 | |
I cannot believe that someone could be so insensitive. | 0:19:25 | 0:19:30 | |
You can only say, "And if it was your child? | 0:19:30 | 0:19:32 | |
"What would you want to do? | 0:19:33 | 0:19:35 | |
"Would you want to fight and fight and fight again for justice? | 0:19:35 | 0:19:39 | |
"Of course you would." | 0:19:39 | 0:19:40 | |
Totally inappropriate. | 0:19:41 | 0:19:43 | |
Des has been asking questions about how his daughter died | 0:19:45 | 0:19:48 | |
for longer than she was alive. | 0:19:48 | 0:19:50 | |
In the hills above their home, there's solitude but no peace. | 0:19:51 | 0:19:55 | |
I do find the having time to just clear your head a bit, that helps. | 0:19:55 | 0:20:00 | |
I became obsessive, I needed to read every statement, | 0:20:01 | 0:20:04 | |
I needed to hear every testimony. | 0:20:04 | 0:20:06 | |
I couldn't miss anything and I'm still like that. | 0:20:06 | 0:20:10 | |
You're not going to have another chance to understand it, | 0:20:10 | 0:20:12 | |
so you'd better do a good job and don't make any excuses for not doing it, so... | 0:20:12 | 0:20:16 | |
He and Doreen took the agonising decision | 0:20:18 | 0:20:21 | |
to have Cheryl's body exhumed | 0:20:21 | 0:20:22 | |
in search for any remaining forensic clues. | 0:20:22 | 0:20:26 | |
The exhumation was horrific. Um... | 0:20:30 | 0:20:34 | |
You know, there's no doubting that, | 0:20:34 | 0:20:38 | |
and if it had been the other way round, Cheryl would have | 0:20:38 | 0:20:40 | |
done this for me and that gives me great consolation, you know? | 0:20:40 | 0:20:43 | |
I think she'll forgive me anything | 0:20:43 | 0:20:45 | |
as long as we get to the bottom of this. | 0:20:45 | 0:20:48 | |
Bullet fragments from the same kind of weapon as Cheryl's | 0:20:53 | 0:20:56 | |
were recovered from her remains. | 0:20:56 | 0:20:58 | |
Original postmortem photographs were re-examined. | 0:20:58 | 0:21:01 | |
Experts for the police and MoD said soot marks around the bullet wound | 0:21:01 | 0:21:06 | |
proved the gun was fired at very close range. | 0:21:06 | 0:21:09 | |
The position of her body and the gun, they said, | 0:21:09 | 0:21:12 | |
pointed to suicide, but her parents' expert disagreed. | 0:21:12 | 0:21:16 | |
Forensic pathologist Dr Derek Pounder told the coroner | 0:21:16 | 0:21:19 | |
that in his opinion, Cheryl could have been killed by someone else. | 0:21:19 | 0:21:23 | |
And in his view, the black marks surrounding the bullet wound | 0:21:23 | 0:21:26 | |
had been caused by either bruising or dirt and not soot, | 0:21:26 | 0:21:30 | |
suggesting, he said, that the gun hadn't been fired at close range | 0:21:30 | 0:21:35 | |
and that someone else's finger could have been on the trigger. | 0:21:35 | 0:21:38 | |
Cheryl didn't leave a suicide note. | 0:21:44 | 0:21:46 | |
So what was her frame of mind the morning she died? | 0:21:46 | 0:21:50 | |
This is Paul Wilkinson. | 0:21:51 | 0:21:53 | |
He was Cheryl's new boyfriend. | 0:21:53 | 0:21:55 | |
He told the inquest they'd had sex the night before, | 0:21:55 | 0:21:58 | |
at a party on the base. | 0:21:58 | 0:22:00 | |
Another former soldier, Andrew Carter, was there, too. | 0:22:00 | 0:22:04 | |
There's the male accommodation at the back. | 0:22:04 | 0:22:07 | |
-Into the far left-hand side, at the back. -Here? | 0:22:07 | 0:22:10 | |
This is the first time he's returned to Deepcut in 20 years. | 0:22:10 | 0:22:14 | |
It's a place he remembers he was desperate to leave. | 0:22:14 | 0:22:17 | |
There was no feeling of safety in the camp. | 0:22:17 | 0:22:22 | |
And within a few days of being here, my healthy mind | 0:22:22 | 0:22:26 | |
told me back then that I needed to get out of the camp | 0:22:26 | 0:22:30 | |
as quickly as possible. | 0:22:30 | 0:22:32 | |
Now living in Germany, he returned to tell the inquest how Cheryl | 0:22:32 | 0:22:35 | |
propositioned him while she was having sex with Paul Wilkinson. | 0:22:35 | 0:22:39 | |
He was quite agitated with her proposal. | 0:22:39 | 0:22:43 | |
-He was a little bit annoyed. -What did he say? | 0:22:43 | 0:22:46 | |
I can't... | 0:22:46 | 0:22:47 | |
If he mumbled something under his breath or it was maybe | 0:22:47 | 0:22:51 | |
something like... | 0:22:51 | 0:22:52 | |
"What was that supposed to be?" | 0:22:52 | 0:22:54 | |
Maybe very few words, more body language, if anything. | 0:22:54 | 0:22:59 | |
-Did they stop having sex? -Yes. | 0:22:59 | 0:23:01 | |
And what happens next? | 0:23:01 | 0:23:03 | |
And then Cheryl asked me directly then if I could | 0:23:03 | 0:23:08 | |
accompany her downstairs to check if there was any NCOs there, | 0:23:08 | 0:23:13 | |
doing the patrols, doing any... | 0:23:13 | 0:23:14 | |
Was Cheryl coming on to you? | 0:23:14 | 0:23:17 | |
Yes. | 0:23:19 | 0:23:20 | |
And Wilkinson knew that? | 0:23:20 | 0:23:22 | |
Yes. | 0:23:22 | 0:23:23 | |
The next morning, Cheryl was on guard duty | 0:23:23 | 0:23:26 | |
when Paul Wilkinson went to look for her. | 0:23:26 | 0:23:29 | |
He told the inquest they spent about 40 minutes talking. | 0:23:29 | 0:23:32 | |
They didn't argue and she was fine when he left her. | 0:23:32 | 0:23:35 | |
The coroner ordered that Paul Wilkinson should be | 0:23:36 | 0:23:39 | |
treated as a witness, not as a suspect. | 0:23:39 | 0:23:42 | |
And when he gave evidence, Mr Wilkinson said that he had some | 0:23:42 | 0:23:45 | |
difficulty remembering the detail of what had happened that morning, | 0:23:45 | 0:23:48 | |
because he'd since suffered a rugby injury that affected his memory. | 0:23:48 | 0:23:53 | |
For Cheryl's parents, | 0:23:53 | 0:23:55 | |
that means there are questions that remain unanswered. | 0:23:55 | 0:23:58 | |
My heart goes out to them both. | 0:24:00 | 0:24:02 | |
They've been robbed. They've lost their daughter. | 0:24:03 | 0:24:07 | |
They have lost the last 20 years where they should be | 0:24:07 | 0:24:10 | |
having maybe grandchildren and they've had to spend time | 0:24:10 | 0:24:15 | |
reflecting and fighting on a daily basis now, for 20 years. | 0:24:15 | 0:24:19 | |
It's unfathomable. | 0:24:19 | 0:24:21 | |
No-one from the army wanted to be interviewed for our programme. | 0:24:23 | 0:24:27 | |
But we were told Cheryl's death has had a profound effect | 0:24:27 | 0:24:29 | |
on the way it views its duty of care to recruits. | 0:24:29 | 0:24:32 | |
OFSTED now independently inspects its training sites, | 0:24:34 | 0:24:37 | |
which were recently rated "Good" or "Excellent". | 0:24:37 | 0:24:40 | |
Because of what happened at Deepcut, | 0:24:43 | 0:24:45 | |
an ombudsman service was established to investigate | 0:24:45 | 0:24:48 | |
the handling of complaints from forces personnel. | 0:24:48 | 0:24:51 | |
Change might have begun, but it's not quick enough, say Liberty. | 0:24:51 | 0:24:55 | |
In order to access the ombudsman, | 0:24:57 | 0:24:59 | |
you have to go through the entire internal service complaints system | 0:24:59 | 0:25:03 | |
and it is interminable and bureaucratic, | 0:25:03 | 0:25:07 | |
such that I would feel... | 0:25:07 | 0:25:09 | |
Sometimes I feel my best advice is | 0:25:09 | 0:25:11 | |
don't bother complaining, because I do not doubt that the ombudsman, | 0:25:11 | 0:25:15 | |
when she gets her hands on the complaint, | 0:25:15 | 0:25:18 | |
will be able to conduct a rigorous and independent and fair investigation. | 0:25:18 | 0:25:21 | |
The problem is, by the time it's got to that point, the person making | 0:25:21 | 0:25:25 | |
the complaint is so ground down by it that they may have given up. | 0:25:25 | 0:25:30 | |
The new services ombudsman declined to give us an interview, | 0:25:30 | 0:25:34 | |
but she said she recognises | 0:25:34 | 0:25:36 | |
there has been a lack of confidence in the system. | 0:25:36 | 0:25:38 | |
However, substantial reforms are underway, | 0:25:38 | 0:25:42 | |
although it'll need more time to judge whether her powers go | 0:25:42 | 0:25:45 | |
far enough and whether the changes are effective or not. | 0:25:45 | 0:25:50 | |
Cheryl's inquest has caused many to reflect on their time at Deepcut. | 0:25:51 | 0:25:56 | |
Jeanette Lange, who wanted to serve her country, | 0:25:56 | 0:25:58 | |
never completed training at the barracks. | 0:25:58 | 0:26:00 | |
She was thrown out of the army for assaulting an NCO. | 0:26:00 | 0:26:04 | |
I attacked him because he attacked me first. | 0:26:04 | 0:26:06 | |
He pinned me up against the wall. | 0:26:06 | 0:26:08 | |
And then I blacked out after that. | 0:26:08 | 0:26:10 | |
I did everything that I suppose I shouldn't have done, as a girl. | 0:26:12 | 0:26:16 | |
I should have just put up with it(!) | 0:26:16 | 0:26:18 | |
But I didn't. | 0:26:18 | 0:26:20 | |
And I ended up getting kicked out because of it. | 0:26:20 | 0:26:23 | |
It ended her career. | 0:26:23 | 0:26:25 | |
But what about the soldiers who stand accused of | 0:26:25 | 0:26:28 | |
so many wrongs by so many former recruits? | 0:26:28 | 0:26:31 | |
People need to be made accountable for what they put us through. | 0:26:31 | 0:26:35 | |
They absolutely have to, because... | 0:26:36 | 0:26:39 | |
That's... You can't go through life | 0:26:40 | 0:26:42 | |
doing that to people and getting away with it. | 0:26:42 | 0:26:44 | |
You just can't. | 0:26:44 | 0:26:46 | |
The army says it can't comment | 0:26:46 | 0:26:47 | |
about allegations from former recruits. | 0:26:47 | 0:26:49 | |
It says they should report them to the police, | 0:26:49 | 0:26:52 | |
if they haven't already done so. | 0:26:52 | 0:26:54 | |
But Surrey Police refused to comment on any of the issues we've raised. | 0:26:54 | 0:26:58 | |
Madeline Moon is asking the Defence Secretary to demand | 0:26:58 | 0:27:02 | |
answers from the army and police about the dossier. | 0:27:02 | 0:27:05 | |
This is a time and a place in which we can go back and look | 0:27:06 | 0:27:11 | |
and find out what happened. | 0:27:11 | 0:27:13 | |
Are there still lessons we need to learn here? | 0:27:14 | 0:27:17 | |
Are there still people who, for goodness' sake, | 0:27:18 | 0:27:21 | |
might even still be serving, | 0:27:21 | 0:27:23 | |
that we need to look at their behaviour? | 0:27:23 | 0:27:26 | |
Well, aside from the lessons, there might also be | 0:27:26 | 0:27:29 | |
-just the straightforward matter of crimes that were committed... -They did. | 0:27:29 | 0:27:32 | |
..that people have never been held to account for. | 0:27:32 | 0:27:35 | |
Are you saying we should deal with that? | 0:27:35 | 0:27:38 | |
Yes, I am. | 0:27:38 | 0:27:39 | |
After such a long, hard battle for the truth, | 0:27:46 | 0:27:49 | |
Cheryl's parents haven't found all the answers. | 0:27:49 | 0:27:53 | |
But they don't regret the fight. | 0:27:53 | 0:27:55 | |
I'm sure Cheryl was smiling at us. | 0:27:55 | 0:27:59 | |
That's all that keeps you going. | 0:28:01 | 0:28:04 | |
It's what any parent does. If it's your child, you fight till the end. | 0:28:04 | 0:28:08 | |
I'm hoping now that this will have made a pathway for those parents. | 0:28:10 | 0:28:15 | |
They need to know that there's some help out there, you know, | 0:28:15 | 0:28:20 | |
that they will get justice eventually. | 0:28:20 | 0:28:22 | |
On Friday, Des will return to the inquest for the verdict. | 0:28:26 | 0:28:30 | |
I've every respect for the judge and I think... | 0:28:30 | 0:28:33 | |
I think it's possible for us to acknowledge that | 0:28:33 | 0:28:37 | |
we've gone as far as we could go, given what we have. | 0:28:37 | 0:28:41 | |
While he doesn't know whether anyone will be held to account | 0:28:41 | 0:28:44 | |
for Cheryl's death, he doesn't want it to have been in vain. | 0:28:44 | 0:28:48 | |
My greatest hope of all is that somewhere in the midst of this, | 0:28:48 | 0:28:55 | |
a legacy can be identified for Cheryl, you know? | 0:28:55 | 0:28:57 | |
That they can say... | 0:28:57 | 0:29:00 | |
you know, that was created, that was caused because of Cheryl James. | 0:29:00 | 0:29:05 | |
That would be good. | 0:29:06 | 0:29:07 |