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Men! | 0:00:03 | 0:00:04 | |
And women. | 0:00:04 | 0:00:06 | |
For centuries, people have argued ferociously about | 0:00:06 | 0:00:09 | |
whether or not we are born with different brains. | 0:00:09 | 0:00:12 | |
We have different roles in life | 0:00:12 | 0:00:14 | |
and I think that's why our brains are wired differently. | 0:00:14 | 0:00:17 | |
Men are definitely better at navigation and map reading. | 0:00:17 | 0:00:20 | |
-Women panic a little bit more. -From experience? No. | 0:00:20 | 0:00:24 | |
Now it seems we're getting close to an answer. | 0:00:24 | 0:00:27 | |
I thought there must be a mistake. | 0:00:27 | 0:00:28 | |
I'm not used to results of studies coming out as clean as this one. | 0:00:28 | 0:00:33 | |
With new technology, scientists have recently identified | 0:00:33 | 0:00:36 | |
subtle differences in the brains of men and women. | 0:00:36 | 0:00:40 | |
It's more there. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:41 | |
Differences that could help explain perceived strengths and weaknesses. | 0:00:42 | 0:00:46 | |
I was surprised that they were so significantly different. | 0:00:46 | 0:00:49 | |
Come on, Barbaries! | 0:00:49 | 0:00:52 | |
But the research is controversial and raises difficult questions. | 0:00:52 | 0:00:56 | |
Funny, but he's completely uninterested in the dolls. | 0:00:56 | 0:00:59 | |
Are brain differences innate? | 0:00:59 | 0:01:02 | |
Or are they shaped by the world around us? | 0:01:02 | 0:01:04 | |
If somebody says the word "scientist" to you, what comes into your head? | 0:01:04 | 0:01:07 | |
-Man. -A man. -Usually a man. | 0:01:07 | 0:01:09 | |
Yeah, I get the image as well of a man. | 0:01:09 | 0:01:12 | |
We're searching for the truth behind the myths. | 0:01:12 | 0:01:15 | |
DIY doesn't tend to be one of their strong points. | 0:01:15 | 0:01:18 | |
Men just act like they know everything | 0:01:18 | 0:01:20 | |
and they don't necessarily. | 0:01:20 | 0:01:22 | |
We'll be testing the science... | 0:01:22 | 0:01:24 | |
Oh, no! Oh, God! | 0:01:24 | 0:01:26 | |
..and challenging old stereotypes. | 0:01:26 | 0:01:29 | |
No way! It's crazy, no way. | 0:01:29 | 0:01:32 | |
We can go beyond the usual arguments about who's better at parking | 0:01:32 | 0:01:36 | |
or who is better at reading emotions | 0:01:36 | 0:01:38 | |
and have a look at some of the real science. | 0:01:38 | 0:01:40 | |
We're going to look at research which has thrown up | 0:01:40 | 0:01:42 | |
surprising sex differences, which may have important | 0:01:42 | 0:01:45 | |
implications for science and our health. | 0:01:45 | 0:01:47 | |
We live in an age of increased gender equality. | 0:01:59 | 0:02:02 | |
But it often seems the division between the sexes has never been greater. | 0:02:05 | 0:02:09 | |
As soon as we're born, | 0:02:11 | 0:02:13 | |
boys and girls are encouraged to play in different ways. | 0:02:13 | 0:02:16 | |
And all too often the justification is biology. | 0:02:16 | 0:02:22 | |
Well, of course, we've all heard that men are from Mars | 0:02:24 | 0:02:26 | |
and women are from Venus, but it seems that recently | 0:02:26 | 0:02:30 | |
we've been inundated with popular science books and newspaper articles, | 0:02:30 | 0:02:34 | |
all purporting to present us with the latest scientific evidence showing | 0:02:34 | 0:02:38 | |
that there really are differences in male and female brains. | 0:02:38 | 0:02:42 | |
Men are meant to be better at maths, | 0:02:42 | 0:02:45 | |
women are meant to be better at reading | 0:02:45 | 0:02:47 | |
and just about anything emotional, but for me, the really crucial claim | 0:02:47 | 0:02:51 | |
is that these differences are hard wired in our brains. | 0:02:51 | 0:02:56 | |
You might think it's all a bit of fun | 0:02:58 | 0:03:00 | |
but in a country where fewer than three out of ten physics A-levels | 0:03:00 | 0:03:05 | |
are taken by girls, where just 7% of engineers are women, | 0:03:05 | 0:03:08 | |
and where men still earn on average nearly 20% more than their female colleagues, | 0:03:08 | 0:03:13 | |
these scientific claims are powerful and potentially damaging. | 0:03:13 | 0:03:18 | |
I don't think girls are the only losers in this debate. | 0:03:23 | 0:03:26 | |
Boys face pressures too. | 0:03:26 | 0:03:28 | |
In the modern world, so-called soft skills like communication | 0:03:30 | 0:03:34 | |
and emotional intelligence, understanding what other people | 0:03:34 | 0:03:36 | |
are thinking and feeling, are increasingly valued. | 0:03:36 | 0:03:39 | |
So are boys missing out because they simply haven't had | 0:03:39 | 0:03:42 | |
that side of themselves encouraged, | 0:03:42 | 0:03:44 | |
or is something more fundamental going on? | 0:03:44 | 0:03:47 | |
It's the age-old question - | 0:03:50 | 0:03:51 | |
are the differences between the sexes the results of nature? | 0:03:51 | 0:03:55 | |
Or is it nurture? | 0:03:55 | 0:03:58 | |
I'll be looking at these possible differences | 0:04:00 | 0:04:03 | |
in the brains of men and women and exploring to what extent | 0:04:03 | 0:04:07 | |
they might be affected by environmental influences. | 0:04:07 | 0:04:11 | |
And I'll be investigating the role that genes and hormones play | 0:04:11 | 0:04:14 | |
in shaping our brains and our behaviour. | 0:04:14 | 0:04:18 | |
But are men and women really all that different? | 0:04:20 | 0:04:23 | |
Are men better at some things and women better at others? | 0:04:23 | 0:04:27 | |
We're going to run some tests to find out. | 0:04:27 | 0:04:30 | |
We've brought together six men and six women of different ages | 0:04:34 | 0:04:37 | |
and backgrounds, different interests and professions. | 0:04:37 | 0:04:41 | |
I think definitely men's brains are wired differently, | 0:04:43 | 0:04:47 | |
typically from women's brains. | 0:04:47 | 0:04:49 | |
Driving, I think men are a lot better at. | 0:04:49 | 0:04:52 | |
Quite a lot of things, I think men are better at than women, actually. | 0:04:52 | 0:04:55 | |
I think men don't seem to be particularly organised. | 0:04:55 | 0:05:00 | |
I think women are good at, like, housing skills, | 0:05:01 | 0:05:06 | |
like, obviously, washing up, | 0:05:06 | 0:05:08 | |
but much more than that, | 0:05:08 | 0:05:10 | |
like making sure the house is clean and stuff. | 0:05:10 | 0:05:13 | |
First up, we're going to test a set of skills | 0:05:16 | 0:05:19 | |
which many men believe they're naturally gifted at. | 0:05:19 | 0:05:23 | |
Now, what the tests they're doing are measuring | 0:05:23 | 0:05:26 | |
are visual spatial ability, | 0:05:26 | 0:05:27 | |
the skill you need, for example, to navigate your way | 0:05:27 | 0:05:30 | |
round an unknown city, also useful if you want to be an engineer. | 0:05:30 | 0:05:35 | |
I think I'm pretty good at spatial awareness. | 0:05:37 | 0:05:40 | |
I'm quite good at reading a map, quite a good sense of direction. | 0:05:40 | 0:05:43 | |
Spatial awareness, I like to think I'm quite good. | 0:05:43 | 0:05:46 | |
All men think they can map read and don't want to ask directions | 0:05:46 | 0:05:49 | |
but I do think I'm very good. | 0:05:49 | 0:05:51 | |
They just act like they know everything | 0:05:51 | 0:05:53 | |
and they don't necessarily. | 0:05:53 | 0:05:55 | |
Yeah, well, I'd go straight and find a map of the city, | 0:05:55 | 0:05:57 | |
tourist information, and then you can find your way around. | 0:05:57 | 0:06:00 | |
It's pretty simple. | 0:06:00 | 0:06:01 | |
In this test, | 0:06:03 | 0:06:04 | |
our volunteers must rotate a geometric shape in their heads. | 0:06:04 | 0:06:08 | |
We've presented them with a master shape. | 0:06:10 | 0:06:12 | |
When this shape is rotated, | 0:06:12 | 0:06:14 | |
which two of the other four shapes does it match? | 0:06:14 | 0:06:19 | |
The matching shapes were B and C. | 0:06:33 | 0:06:36 | |
I thought I had it nailed, | 0:06:36 | 0:06:38 | |
the first couple, but then I started to doubt myself | 0:06:38 | 0:06:40 | |
so I found myself getting slower and slower. | 0:06:40 | 0:06:43 | |
You try to turn them in your head and it's quite difficult | 0:06:43 | 0:06:46 | |
and I was sort of like, "Ah!" | 0:06:46 | 0:06:48 | |
Next, the line angle test. | 0:06:50 | 0:06:53 | |
Our volunteers are presented with fan-shaped diagrams | 0:06:54 | 0:06:58 | |
made up of lines placed at different angles. | 0:06:58 | 0:07:01 | |
At the top of the page is a single line which they must then | 0:07:01 | 0:07:05 | |
pick out from the main diagram. | 0:07:05 | 0:07:07 | |
The answer was E. | 0:07:21 | 0:07:23 | |
That angle one, it was quite difficult | 0:07:25 | 0:07:27 | |
because there wasn't that much different in the angle. | 0:07:27 | 0:07:30 | |
Not as obvious as you might expect, you know. | 0:07:30 | 0:07:32 | |
Well, foolishly I was thinking, "Oh, it's different lengths," | 0:07:32 | 0:07:35 | |
so I'll guess which one is the length, | 0:07:35 | 0:07:37 | |
so I got it completely wrong in my head. | 0:07:37 | 0:07:39 | |
Although there were exceptions, | 0:07:39 | 0:07:41 | |
on average, the men did slightly better than the women. | 0:07:41 | 0:07:44 | |
Similar tests were recently completed online | 0:07:46 | 0:07:49 | |
by over 200,000 people. | 0:07:49 | 0:07:51 | |
Across 53 countries, men significantly outperformed women. | 0:07:51 | 0:07:56 | |
But while men seemed to have the edge when it comes | 0:07:58 | 0:08:01 | |
to some spatial skills, | 0:08:01 | 0:08:02 | |
there are other fields where women are said to have an advantage. | 0:08:02 | 0:08:06 | |
Women are better at reading people's emotions. | 0:08:07 | 0:08:10 | |
Guys can be a bit less sensitive | 0:08:10 | 0:08:12 | |
to people's needs or discomforts emotionally. | 0:08:12 | 0:08:16 | |
You know, they just see the outside | 0:08:16 | 0:08:18 | |
and they don't really understand sometimes. | 0:08:18 | 0:08:21 | |
Of course, women are stereotypically meant to be better at emotions | 0:08:23 | 0:08:28 | |
and empathy, but I think we really need | 0:08:28 | 0:08:30 | |
to put that stereotype to the test. | 0:08:30 | 0:08:32 | |
We're asking our volunteers to complete | 0:08:35 | 0:08:38 | |
the Geneva Emotion Recognition Test. | 0:08:38 | 0:08:41 | |
They're presented with a series of video clips of actors expressing | 0:08:44 | 0:08:47 | |
a range of different emotions... | 0:08:47 | 0:08:49 | |
..which they must then identify. | 0:08:52 | 0:08:55 | |
The actors are speaking in a made-up language | 0:08:57 | 0:09:00 | |
so our volunteers must rely on other means to gauge the correct emotion. | 0:09:00 | 0:09:04 | |
The men and women who did our test seemed to have | 0:09:07 | 0:09:10 | |
quite different experiences. | 0:09:10 | 0:09:12 | |
I really enjoyed it, really enjoyed that test. | 0:09:12 | 0:09:15 | |
The tone in their voice and the way they're moving, | 0:09:15 | 0:09:18 | |
the whole body language, you have to take all that on board. | 0:09:18 | 0:09:21 | |
That test for me was much easier than the spatial test. | 0:09:21 | 0:09:24 | |
I found this one easier. | 0:09:25 | 0:09:27 | |
I think I did OK but some parts made me feel quite sad | 0:09:27 | 0:09:31 | |
when people were displaying the more sad or angry emotions. | 0:09:31 | 0:09:35 | |
Couldn't understand what the people were saying, so to actually | 0:09:35 | 0:09:38 | |
pick up people's emotions was a little bit more tricky. | 0:09:38 | 0:09:40 | |
Well, I obviously didn't do very well. | 0:09:44 | 0:09:46 | |
I think that may indicate perhaps that I pay more attention | 0:09:46 | 0:09:51 | |
to the actual words and what people say, than other things | 0:09:51 | 0:09:55 | |
like tone of voice, facial expression, gestures, etc. | 0:09:55 | 0:09:59 | |
When the University of Geneva gave their emotion recognition test | 0:10:02 | 0:10:05 | |
to nearly 300 men and women, | 0:10:05 | 0:10:07 | |
the women scored slightly higher than the men, | 0:10:07 | 0:10:10 | |
a result that's been closely replicated | 0:10:10 | 0:10:12 | |
in similar tests around the world. | 0:10:12 | 0:10:14 | |
Now, I think these behavioural differences | 0:10:16 | 0:10:18 | |
are something we're born with. | 0:10:18 | 0:10:20 | |
I don't think it's that simple. | 0:10:21 | 0:10:23 | |
I think most differences are learned rather than hard-wired. | 0:10:23 | 0:10:27 | |
Right, OK. | 0:10:27 | 0:10:29 | |
Where do we go from here? | 0:10:29 | 0:10:31 | |
So, Alice, do you accept the idea that, on average, | 0:10:32 | 0:10:36 | |
men tend to do better at mental rotation tests | 0:10:36 | 0:10:39 | |
and that women tend to perform better with emotional tests? | 0:10:39 | 0:10:42 | |
Yeah, I think we have to accept that fact. | 0:10:42 | 0:10:44 | |
What I would question is whether those differences | 0:10:44 | 0:10:47 | |
are there right from the beginning. | 0:10:47 | 0:10:49 | |
You know, are they somehow innate? Is it a learned aptitude? | 0:10:49 | 0:10:52 | |
But I find it almost impossible to believe that the hormones | 0:10:52 | 0:10:55 | |
you're exposed to in the womb don't also somehow influence | 0:10:55 | 0:10:58 | |
how your brain architecture forms, | 0:10:58 | 0:11:00 | |
and so that's what I want to find out. | 0:11:00 | 0:11:02 | |
Yeah, we'll discuss it further. | 0:11:02 | 0:11:04 | |
Yeah, maybe a bit of arm wrestling. | 0:11:04 | 0:11:06 | |
There do seem to be some behavioural differences between men and women | 0:11:11 | 0:11:15 | |
but we can't agree on what causes them. | 0:11:15 | 0:11:18 | |
If Michael's right and these differences are hard-wired, | 0:11:19 | 0:11:22 | |
then could there be some physical evidence inside our brains | 0:11:22 | 0:11:25 | |
to support this? | 0:11:25 | 0:11:27 | |
I'm an anatomist, and from what I know about the brain, | 0:11:28 | 0:11:31 | |
it's surprisingly hard to link behavioural differences to anatomy. | 0:11:31 | 0:11:36 | |
Right, this is a female brain and a male brain, | 0:11:38 | 0:11:43 | |
and there's an enormous amount of debate about the differences | 0:11:43 | 0:11:47 | |
between male and female brains, | 0:11:47 | 0:11:48 | |
but there's one thing that everybody agrees on, | 0:11:48 | 0:11:52 | |
and that is that men's brains tend to be larger than women's brains. | 0:11:52 | 0:11:56 | |
But we have to remember that there is an enormous amount of variation | 0:11:56 | 0:11:59 | |
within each sex as well, so in fact, there are some men | 0:11:59 | 0:12:03 | |
with very small brains, and there are some women with very large brains, | 0:12:03 | 0:12:07 | |
and here's an example. | 0:12:07 | 0:12:08 | |
So this is also a male brain, | 0:12:08 | 0:12:11 | |
and in fact it's, as you can see, it's a lot smaller than this brain. | 0:12:11 | 0:12:14 | |
It's also a lot smaller than the female brain | 0:12:14 | 0:12:16 | |
that we've got on the table. | 0:12:16 | 0:12:17 | |
Although male brains are on average around 10% larger than female ones, | 0:12:20 | 0:12:24 | |
scientists have found no difference in levels of intelligence. | 0:12:24 | 0:12:29 | |
In IQ tests, men and women score more or less the same. | 0:12:29 | 0:12:34 | |
As well as differences in the sizes of men and women's brains, | 0:12:37 | 0:12:42 | |
it's been suggested that there are structures inside the brains | 0:12:42 | 0:12:45 | |
that exhibit sex differences as well. | 0:12:45 | 0:12:48 | |
One of them is the larger hypothalamus in a male | 0:12:48 | 0:12:51 | |
compared with a female, so this is the connection | 0:12:51 | 0:12:53 | |
between the brain and the system of hormones | 0:12:53 | 0:12:56 | |
that communicate with the testes in a man, the ovaries in a woman. | 0:12:56 | 0:13:00 | |
So I would expect there to be differences here that relate | 0:13:00 | 0:13:03 | |
to differences in reproductive physiology, | 0:13:03 | 0:13:06 | |
and nobody can deny that those differences exist, | 0:13:06 | 0:13:08 | |
but we don't yet know actually what the differences | 0:13:08 | 0:13:11 | |
in the hypothalamus relate to. | 0:13:11 | 0:13:13 | |
They're not necessarily to do with differences | 0:13:13 | 0:13:16 | |
in the way that men and women think and behave. | 0:13:16 | 0:13:19 | |
This is another area which has been picked up on as being different | 0:13:19 | 0:13:22 | |
in the brains of men and women, and this is called the hippocampus, | 0:13:22 | 0:13:26 | |
and this is involved in memory, and part of this area here | 0:13:26 | 0:13:30 | |
has been shown to be larger in women compared with men. | 0:13:30 | 0:13:34 | |
Unfortunately, when the researchers looked at the differences | 0:13:35 | 0:13:39 | |
in size of the hippocampus that they'd found amongst their subjects, | 0:13:39 | 0:13:43 | |
male and female, and then looked at the performances of those people | 0:13:43 | 0:13:47 | |
in memory tests, they found no link at all. | 0:13:47 | 0:13:49 | |
So I think it's clear that even if we can pick up on differences | 0:13:49 | 0:13:53 | |
in the detailed structure of the brains of men and women, | 0:13:53 | 0:13:57 | |
that doesn't necessarily translate | 0:13:57 | 0:13:59 | |
into obvious differences in behaviour. | 0:13:59 | 0:14:01 | |
The relationship between structure and function in the brain | 0:14:02 | 0:14:06 | |
is incredibly complex, | 0:14:06 | 0:14:07 | |
and we're a long way from understanding the fine detail. | 0:14:07 | 0:14:11 | |
But more important is searching for the reasons for sex differences | 0:14:11 | 0:14:15 | |
and I think it's obvious. | 0:14:15 | 0:14:18 | |
From the earliest age, | 0:14:21 | 0:14:22 | |
there's a clear divide in what's expected of boys and girls. | 0:14:22 | 0:14:27 | |
Children must make stark choices. | 0:14:28 | 0:14:30 | |
Between a world of pink... | 0:14:34 | 0:14:36 | |
..and a world of blue. | 0:14:38 | 0:14:40 | |
Should they play with the digger? | 0:14:40 | 0:14:42 | |
Or with the doll? | 0:14:44 | 0:14:46 | |
Should they be a pirate? | 0:14:46 | 0:14:49 | |
Or a princess? | 0:14:49 | 0:14:51 | |
Well, I've got a one-year-old boy and a four-year-old little girl, | 0:14:51 | 0:14:54 | |
and I think until I became a mum, | 0:14:54 | 0:14:56 | |
I didn't realise just how rigid this gender division was. | 0:14:56 | 0:15:01 | |
It didn't seem to have been as pronounced | 0:15:01 | 0:15:04 | |
when I was growing up, and it does make me worry | 0:15:04 | 0:15:07 | |
because I don't want either of them to be limited in their choices | 0:15:07 | 0:15:10 | |
just because they don't conform | 0:15:10 | 0:15:13 | |
to either the blue or the pink stereotypes. | 0:15:13 | 0:15:16 | |
I'm not sure that cultural forces are as powerful as Alice thinks. | 0:15:17 | 0:15:22 | |
Maybe the stereotypes have their roots in nature. | 0:15:22 | 0:15:25 | |
I have three sons and a daughter. | 0:15:26 | 0:15:29 | |
Now, my sons do have their sensitive side, | 0:15:29 | 0:15:32 | |
and my daughter really likes maths, | 0:15:32 | 0:15:34 | |
but when they were growing up, the toys they chose to play with, | 0:15:34 | 0:15:38 | |
well, they absolutely conformed to the stereotype. | 0:15:38 | 0:15:42 | |
Across the world, on average, little boys and little girls | 0:15:48 | 0:15:52 | |
are remarkably similar in what they choose to play with. | 0:15:52 | 0:15:56 | |
This is Jasper. | 0:15:56 | 0:15:57 | |
He loves his trucks, sirens, fire engines, ambulances, diggers. | 0:15:57 | 0:16:03 | |
Any wheels of any sort. | 0:16:04 | 0:16:06 | |
This is Hadrian, he's fascinated by cars. | 0:16:07 | 0:16:09 | |
Like, when we go along the street, he's always pointing at them. | 0:16:09 | 0:16:13 | |
This is Eric. | 0:16:13 | 0:16:14 | |
He likes to play with, obviously, cars and anything with wheels. | 0:16:14 | 0:16:18 | |
The bigger, the better. | 0:16:20 | 0:16:21 | |
Anything noisy like double deckers, he loves them. | 0:16:21 | 0:16:24 | |
By 18 months, most boys show a consistent preference | 0:16:24 | 0:16:28 | |
for cars and trucks. | 0:16:28 | 0:16:30 | |
For girls, it's a different story. | 0:16:30 | 0:16:33 | |
Joanna, she loves her dolls and teddies, especially. | 0:16:33 | 0:16:37 | |
She's got a little elephant teddy that she puts her dummy on. | 0:16:37 | 0:16:40 | |
This is Payton and she sort of naturally gravitates towards, like, | 0:16:41 | 0:16:46 | |
she likes her dolls and she likes Teddy. | 0:16:46 | 0:16:48 | |
Joanna's little boy friends, you know, | 0:16:48 | 0:16:51 | |
they are definitely more into the diggers and bashing things. | 0:16:51 | 0:16:55 | |
So are parents responsible for these toy choices? | 0:16:57 | 0:17:01 | |
I never showed him how to use a stick as a sword. | 0:17:01 | 0:17:05 | |
He did it instinctively. | 0:17:05 | 0:17:07 | |
I never said she has to play with dolls. | 0:17:07 | 0:17:09 | |
Automatically, she goes for those toys. | 0:17:09 | 0:17:12 | |
I think it's something that's instinctive. | 0:17:12 | 0:17:15 | |
But are they right? | 0:17:15 | 0:17:17 | |
In 2002, psychologists dreamt up a very clever experiment | 0:17:21 | 0:17:25 | |
to discover answers. | 0:17:25 | 0:17:27 | |
If you want to find out if toy preferences | 0:17:27 | 0:17:31 | |
are in any sense innate, well, you have a big problem, | 0:17:31 | 0:17:34 | |
because children from the earliest age are exposed to all sorts | 0:17:34 | 0:17:38 | |
of pressures, but the scientists did find one group where they could | 0:17:38 | 0:17:42 | |
guarantee they had not been exposed to any gender stereotypes. | 0:17:42 | 0:17:47 | |
Monkeys! | 0:17:49 | 0:17:51 | |
We've come to Woburn Safari Park in Bedfordshire | 0:17:57 | 0:18:00 | |
to try out our own experiment. | 0:18:00 | 0:18:02 | |
The monkeys here are Barbary macaques. | 0:18:04 | 0:18:06 | |
OK, lots of lovely toys. | 0:18:08 | 0:18:10 | |
So we've got a mixture of dolls and trucks in here. | 0:18:12 | 0:18:15 | |
Tom Robson is one of their keepers. | 0:18:15 | 0:18:17 | |
I have a couple of dolls for you. | 0:18:17 | 0:18:18 | |
Marvellous, thank you very much. | 0:18:18 | 0:18:21 | |
In the original experiment, | 0:18:21 | 0:18:22 | |
the psychologists presented the monkeys | 0:18:22 | 0:18:25 | |
with typical boy-type toys, trucks and cars, | 0:18:25 | 0:18:28 | |
and girl-type toys, mostly dolls. | 0:18:28 | 0:18:31 | |
Very hard to believe that monkeys have a sort of, | 0:18:33 | 0:18:37 | |
a toy preference, but we shall see. | 0:18:37 | 0:18:40 | |
The psychologists then observed which toys the monkeys | 0:18:42 | 0:18:46 | |
preferred to play with and for what length of time. | 0:18:46 | 0:18:49 | |
Barbary! Come on! | 0:18:49 | 0:18:52 | |
Barbaries! | 0:18:52 | 0:18:55 | |
Come on, Barbaries! | 0:18:55 | 0:18:59 | |
-Shall I join in? -Yeah. | 0:18:59 | 0:19:01 | |
Come on, Barbaries! | 0:19:01 | 0:19:03 | |
Oh, somebody can hear. | 0:19:03 | 0:19:04 | |
We've got someone coming over. | 0:19:04 | 0:19:06 | |
Male, female? | 0:19:06 | 0:19:07 | |
This is one of the males coming over. | 0:19:07 | 0:19:11 | |
Oh, so we've got a male picking up a truck. | 0:19:11 | 0:19:13 | |
That is quite interesting. | 0:19:13 | 0:19:15 | |
You can see, he's gone for the trucks. | 0:19:15 | 0:19:17 | |
But, yeah, we'll see if he comes... | 0:19:17 | 0:19:18 | |
He's started moving the wheels a bit, which is surprising. | 0:19:18 | 0:19:21 | |
A few more coming over now. | 0:19:23 | 0:19:25 | |
Who's picking up the car over there? | 0:19:27 | 0:19:30 | |
That's another male. Yes, they're spinning the wheels. | 0:19:30 | 0:19:34 | |
Any girls in on the action yet? | 0:19:36 | 0:19:38 | |
Yeah, this is a girl there, so Zoe, going for the doll. | 0:19:38 | 0:19:42 | |
She's quite interested, isn't she? | 0:19:42 | 0:19:45 | |
And then this is also a female here, she's called Blondie. | 0:19:47 | 0:19:51 | |
The way they'll investigate is they'll kind of hold it up, | 0:19:51 | 0:19:53 | |
sniff it, chew on it. | 0:19:53 | 0:19:55 | |
That's a little boy, just there. | 0:19:57 | 0:19:59 | |
Kind of running off with the truck. | 0:19:59 | 0:20:00 | |
Yeah, he's going like, "This is mine now." | 0:20:00 | 0:20:02 | |
Yeah, looks like he might go to the top of the tree. | 0:20:02 | 0:20:05 | |
So is he going to defend his truck? | 0:20:05 | 0:20:06 | |
Yeah, looks like those little males going up. | 0:20:06 | 0:20:08 | |
They all want your truck. | 0:20:08 | 0:20:11 | |
And so far the boys have really only displayed interest in the trucks. | 0:20:11 | 0:20:14 | |
Yeah, they've kind of just picked up the trucks. | 0:20:14 | 0:20:16 | |
-He's climbed on the truck. -Yeah, he's sat on the truck. | 0:20:16 | 0:20:18 | |
He obviously thinks that's kind of a bit like a car, isn't it? | 0:20:18 | 0:20:21 | |
In the original experiment, the male monkeys played with | 0:20:22 | 0:20:26 | |
the male-type toys for twice as long | 0:20:26 | 0:20:29 | |
as they did with the female-type toys. | 0:20:29 | 0:20:31 | |
So that's a little boy that's having a look at that doll there. | 0:20:31 | 0:20:34 | |
-He's not sure, is he? -No. | 0:20:34 | 0:20:36 | |
Our results were even more clear-cut. | 0:20:36 | 0:20:40 | |
The males barely touched the dolls | 0:20:40 | 0:20:43 | |
while the females showed hardly any interest in the trucks. | 0:20:43 | 0:20:48 | |
Trucks don't seem to turn these girls on very much. | 0:20:48 | 0:20:50 | |
No, they're not really interested, are they? | 0:20:50 | 0:20:53 | |
The monkey toy preference experiment was controversial | 0:20:54 | 0:20:58 | |
but it has been repeated twice elsewhere with similar results. | 0:20:58 | 0:21:02 | |
That was really charming but also quite surprising | 0:21:05 | 0:21:08 | |
because those monkeys have not been socialised at all. | 0:21:08 | 0:21:11 | |
They have not been exposed to adverts, they haven't been told | 0:21:11 | 0:21:14 | |
what sort of toys they should play with, and yet the male monkeys | 0:21:14 | 0:21:17 | |
went out there and the only toys they were interested in | 0:21:17 | 0:21:20 | |
were the trucks. | 0:21:20 | 0:21:21 | |
The girls were the only ones who displayed any interest at all | 0:21:21 | 0:21:24 | |
in the dolls, so I think that was certainly very convincing. | 0:21:24 | 0:21:29 | |
The results were also surprising for one of the leaders | 0:21:30 | 0:21:33 | |
of the original experiment. | 0:21:33 | 0:21:35 | |
The results changed the way | 0:21:36 | 0:21:39 | |
I thought about these toys | 0:21:39 | 0:21:41 | |
and, I think, to some extent the way | 0:21:41 | 0:21:43 | |
other people are thinking about these toys. | 0:21:43 | 0:21:46 | |
Previously people had thought that we encouraged children | 0:21:46 | 0:21:50 | |
to play with different toys based on their gender | 0:21:50 | 0:21:53 | |
to prepare them for different gender roles in adulthood. | 0:21:53 | 0:21:56 | |
So, for instance, men usually drive the family car, so people thought, | 0:21:56 | 0:22:00 | |
well, boys are given cars as a kind of rehearsal for that. | 0:22:00 | 0:22:04 | |
Women do most of the child care. | 0:22:04 | 0:22:06 | |
Girls are given dolls as a rehearsal for that. | 0:22:06 | 0:22:10 | |
And this did seem a plausible explanation | 0:22:10 | 0:22:12 | |
for the female monkeys' toy choices. | 0:22:12 | 0:22:15 | |
Of course, in most primates, females do most of the child care | 0:22:15 | 0:22:20 | |
so these animals will have observed females interacting with babies | 0:22:20 | 0:22:24 | |
more than males interacting with babies, and so that could be | 0:22:24 | 0:22:28 | |
part of the explanation why they spend more time with the dolls. | 0:22:28 | 0:22:32 | |
But the male monkeys' toy choices were baffling. | 0:22:33 | 0:22:37 | |
What is it about a car that a male monkey is interested in? | 0:22:37 | 0:22:42 | |
And we thought it might be the shape. | 0:22:42 | 0:22:45 | |
We thought it might be the colour, but we tested those possibilities | 0:22:45 | 0:22:49 | |
and we don't think that either of those are the explanation. | 0:22:49 | 0:22:53 | |
We think it's probably something about how it can be moved in space, | 0:22:53 | 0:22:58 | |
and we're looking at the possibility that a male brain is more likely | 0:22:58 | 0:23:04 | |
to enjoy watching things move in space. | 0:23:04 | 0:23:07 | |
So what is going on? | 0:23:15 | 0:23:17 | |
What is it that makes males - monkeys, boys or men - | 0:23:17 | 0:23:22 | |
behave in this way? | 0:23:22 | 0:23:25 | |
I've come to Cambridge University to meet Professor Simon Baron-Cohen. | 0:23:25 | 0:23:31 | |
For over 25 years, he's been studying autism, which affects | 0:23:31 | 0:23:35 | |
nearly five times as many boys as girls. | 0:23:35 | 0:23:38 | |
He believes autism represents the extreme male brain | 0:23:38 | 0:23:42 | |
and that hormones help shape brain sex differences. | 0:23:42 | 0:23:47 | |
What's the idea here? | 0:23:47 | 0:23:48 | |
We've got a test which, I guess, | 0:23:48 | 0:23:50 | |
really measures one aspect | 0:23:50 | 0:23:52 | |
of spatial ability. | 0:23:52 | 0:23:54 | |
It's about the number of seconds it takes you to find the target shape | 0:23:54 | 0:23:57 | |
in the overall design. | 0:23:57 | 0:23:58 | |
-That's actually surprisingly difficult, looking at it. -It is. | 0:23:58 | 0:24:01 | |
Now, I'm looking at a square there and it's not there. | 0:24:14 | 0:24:19 | |
I think it's there. | 0:24:19 | 0:24:20 | |
That's very good. We can show you, actually. | 0:24:20 | 0:24:22 | |
-OK, yeah. -Which is exactly where you pinpointed it | 0:24:22 | 0:24:25 | |
and you were pretty quick, and research shows that on average | 0:24:25 | 0:24:29 | |
males are faster than females at finding the target shape. | 0:24:29 | 0:24:33 | |
We've also given this test to people with autism | 0:24:33 | 0:24:36 | |
and people with autism are even faster than typical males. | 0:24:36 | 0:24:40 | |
So they seem to be drawn to detail and they love patterns, | 0:24:40 | 0:24:45 | |
and they love to break things down into components, | 0:24:45 | 0:24:47 | |
and this test was one of the starting points for the idea | 0:24:47 | 0:24:51 | |
that there are sex differences, and that people with autism | 0:24:51 | 0:24:54 | |
may simply show an extreme of the typical male profile. | 0:24:54 | 0:24:59 | |
Simon has been gathering compelling evidence | 0:25:02 | 0:25:04 | |
that these behavioural differences could be shaped by what happens | 0:25:04 | 0:25:09 | |
to babies as they develop in the womb. | 0:25:09 | 0:25:11 | |
Well, we've been looking at hormones and particularly testosterone, | 0:25:13 | 0:25:17 | |
the so-called male hormone, although both sexes of course produce it. | 0:25:17 | 0:25:21 | |
But males produce more of this hormone than females | 0:25:21 | 0:25:25 | |
and we're measuring the hormone in the amniotic fluid in women | 0:25:25 | 0:25:29 | |
who are pregnant, and then we wait for the baby to be born | 0:25:29 | 0:25:33 | |
and look at whether there's any relationship between | 0:25:33 | 0:25:37 | |
pre-natal testosterone and the child's behaviour. | 0:25:37 | 0:25:41 | |
And we've been calling in the children pretty much every year | 0:25:42 | 0:25:45 | |
since the late '90s, and it's been a fascinating journey, really. | 0:25:45 | 0:25:50 | |
Simon has discovered the levels of testosterone babies are exposed to | 0:25:50 | 0:25:55 | |
in the womb may affect how they behave many years later. | 0:25:55 | 0:25:59 | |
We found that testosterone shows a positive correlation | 0:25:59 | 0:26:03 | |
-with systemising. -So what is systemising? | 0:26:03 | 0:26:07 | |
So systemising is all about the drive to analyse a system. | 0:26:08 | 0:26:12 | |
And systems come in many varieties. | 0:26:14 | 0:26:16 | |
You know, we've got a computer here as an example of that. | 0:26:16 | 0:26:19 | |
It could be a truck. So you're kind of taking it apart | 0:26:19 | 0:26:21 | |
and putting it together and playing around, | 0:26:21 | 0:26:23 | |
-because that's the sort of thing you associate with men, isn't it? -Exactly. | 0:26:23 | 0:26:27 | |
So train spotting, is that systemising? | 0:26:29 | 0:26:32 | |
Well, that's a sort of another kind of system. | 0:26:32 | 0:26:34 | |
You can find that males as a group score higher on the systemising. | 0:26:34 | 0:26:38 | |
Simon's study has also been looking into the impact | 0:26:39 | 0:26:43 | |
of testosterone on social development. | 0:26:43 | 0:26:45 | |
The higher the child's pre-natal testosterone, | 0:26:47 | 0:26:50 | |
the slower they are to develop socially. | 0:26:50 | 0:26:52 | |
For example, they're showing less eye contact at their first birthday, | 0:26:52 | 0:26:56 | |
and it now turns out that if you have higher testosterone, | 0:26:56 | 0:27:01 | |
your brain is said to be masculinised. | 0:27:01 | 0:27:04 | |
That's to say it resembles more a typical male brain. | 0:27:04 | 0:27:08 | |
We've also found that when we've called in the children | 0:27:08 | 0:27:12 | |
to give them tests like this, | 0:27:12 | 0:27:13 | |
that the children with higher levels of pre-natal testosterone | 0:27:13 | 0:27:17 | |
are faster to find the target shape hidden within the overall design. | 0:27:17 | 0:27:22 | |
I thought that was absolutely fascinating. | 0:27:27 | 0:27:30 | |
Simon's research clearly suggests that from the earliest age, | 0:27:30 | 0:27:34 | |
hormones help to shape our behaviour. | 0:27:34 | 0:27:36 | |
But what's going on up here? | 0:27:36 | 0:27:38 | |
Is there any real evidence that men and women are wired differently? | 0:27:38 | 0:27:42 | |
It's certainly a commonly held belief. | 0:27:45 | 0:27:47 | |
I just think men and women were created to be different. | 0:27:47 | 0:27:51 | |
We have different roles in life | 0:27:51 | 0:27:52 | |
and I think that's why our brains are wired differently. | 0:27:52 | 0:27:55 | |
Men are very focused and, you know, they, they are very decisive. | 0:27:55 | 0:28:01 | |
Men are definitely better decision-makers. | 0:28:01 | 0:28:04 | |
I think women can sometimes flip between different options more. | 0:28:04 | 0:28:07 | |
Using my wife as an example, it's a bit more sort of talking, | 0:28:07 | 0:28:11 | |
planning, talking about it, planning, planning some more. | 0:28:11 | 0:28:15 | |
Men are good at one thing at a time. | 0:28:17 | 0:28:19 | |
I think girls are better at multi-tasking. | 0:28:19 | 0:28:22 | |
Whereas women have to do the one thing | 0:28:22 | 0:28:24 | |
and do everything else around it. | 0:28:24 | 0:28:26 | |
She is better at multi-tasking than I am. That is true. | 0:28:26 | 0:28:28 | |
I'm not saying that men can't multi-task | 0:28:28 | 0:28:31 | |
but I think it's something that women are naturally able to do. | 0:28:31 | 0:28:35 | |
I consider myself good at multi-tasking | 0:28:35 | 0:28:38 | |
because I am a drummer and lead singer, | 0:28:38 | 0:28:40 | |
so I'm good at doing different things at the same time, so... | 0:28:40 | 0:28:44 | |
The stereotypes are certainly strong and it often seems | 0:28:51 | 0:28:55 | |
like our brains must be wired differently from birth, | 0:28:55 | 0:28:59 | |
but what's the real evidence? | 0:28:59 | 0:29:01 | |
Well, a team of scientists in Philadelphia has matched | 0:29:01 | 0:29:04 | |
the microscopic connections within male and female brains | 0:29:04 | 0:29:08 | |
and what they've found is astonishing. | 0:29:08 | 0:29:11 | |
I am fascinated by gender differences | 0:29:11 | 0:29:13 | |
because I see gender differences in my day-to-day life, you know. | 0:29:13 | 0:29:16 | |
My guy friends are completely different from my girl friends. | 0:29:16 | 0:29:20 | |
So the idea was to try and find out | 0:29:20 | 0:29:22 | |
whether there is a difference | 0:29:22 | 0:29:24 | |
overall between men and women | 0:29:24 | 0:29:26 | |
in how each part of the brain talks to another part of the brain. | 0:29:26 | 0:29:30 | |
Right, I want to do pretty much the same scan again. | 0:29:30 | 0:29:34 | |
Dr Verma and her colleagues scanned the brains | 0:29:34 | 0:29:37 | |
of over 900 males and females from the ages of eight to 22. | 0:29:37 | 0:29:41 | |
It's more granular on this side than on that side. | 0:29:42 | 0:29:45 | |
They used an established brain imaging technique to create | 0:29:45 | 0:29:49 | |
a detailed map of the connections | 0:29:49 | 0:29:51 | |
between the two hemispheres of the brain, | 0:29:51 | 0:29:54 | |
hemispheres which they believe have quite different functions. | 0:29:54 | 0:29:59 | |
The left hemisphere is the part of the brain that talks, | 0:30:00 | 0:30:06 | |
understands language and processes the world in an analytic | 0:30:06 | 0:30:11 | |
sequential manner, whereas the right hemisphere is more intuitive, | 0:30:11 | 0:30:16 | |
deals with spatial information, deals with emotional information. | 0:30:16 | 0:30:22 | |
The team's research showed different patterns of connection | 0:30:22 | 0:30:25 | |
between the brain hemispheres of men and women. | 0:30:25 | 0:30:29 | |
The study indicates that those connections | 0:30:30 | 0:30:33 | |
between the two hemispheres are much stronger | 0:30:33 | 0:30:35 | |
and more prevalent in women than in men, | 0:30:35 | 0:30:38 | |
and from here we can conclude that the ability to use both the | 0:30:38 | 0:30:42 | |
verbal analytic and the emotional information is enhanced in women. | 0:30:42 | 0:30:48 | |
So could more connections between the hemispheres explain some | 0:30:48 | 0:30:52 | |
types of typical female behaviour? | 0:30:52 | 0:30:55 | |
The fact that you can connect from different regions of the brain, you | 0:30:55 | 0:30:59 | |
ought to be good at multi-tasking | 0:30:59 | 0:31:02 | |
and if you have multiple regions connected together, | 0:31:02 | 0:31:05 | |
you should be better at an emotional task. | 0:31:05 | 0:31:07 | |
And do they fit certain stereotypes? Perhaps, yes. | 0:31:07 | 0:31:12 | |
The neural pathways in male brains follow a strikingly different pattern. | 0:31:12 | 0:31:18 | |
What we see in males is stronger connections | 0:31:18 | 0:31:20 | |
between the back and the front of the brain. | 0:31:20 | 0:31:23 | |
The back of the brain processes the information | 0:31:23 | 0:31:27 | |
and sends it forward to the brain | 0:31:27 | 0:31:28 | |
and the front of the brain decides what, puts it all together | 0:31:28 | 0:31:32 | |
and decides what to do about it. | 0:31:32 | 0:31:33 | |
So it indicates males have stronger ability to | 0:31:33 | 0:31:38 | |
connect between what they see and what they do | 0:31:38 | 0:31:40 | |
which is essentially what you need to do if you are a hunter. | 0:31:40 | 0:31:44 | |
You see something, you need to respond right away. | 0:31:44 | 0:31:47 | |
The team detected differences in neurological pathways | 0:31:51 | 0:31:55 | |
in male and female brains on a remarkable scale. | 0:31:55 | 0:31:58 | |
I was surprised that they were so significantly different. | 0:32:00 | 0:32:03 | |
When I first saw the figure that came out, I thought | 0:32:03 | 0:32:10 | |
there must be a mistake. | 0:32:10 | 0:32:11 | |
I'm not used to results of studies coming out as clean as this one. | 0:32:11 | 0:32:16 | |
That was quite startling. | 0:32:16 | 0:32:17 | |
But that's not the end of the story. | 0:32:19 | 0:32:21 | |
Although the scientists identified stark differences | 0:32:21 | 0:32:25 | |
in men and women's neural pathways, | 0:32:25 | 0:32:27 | |
they didn't find those differences in children. | 0:32:27 | 0:32:30 | |
The differences only seem to develop in the teenage years which | 0:32:31 | 0:32:35 | |
means they could be the result of social pressure rather than innate. | 0:32:35 | 0:32:40 | |
Most of these differences happened between the age range of 13 to 18 | 0:32:41 | 0:32:46 | |
and you could see them very prominently at that time | 0:32:46 | 0:32:50 | |
so there is a whole nature versus nurture issue. | 0:32:50 | 0:32:54 | |
It's very difficult to figure out why the structural | 0:32:54 | 0:32:57 | |
connections happen. | 0:32:57 | 0:32:59 | |
Whether it's due to hormones or stereotyping, you would never know. | 0:32:59 | 0:33:03 | |
You would have to take 600 boys and make them grow up as girls | 0:33:03 | 0:33:07 | |
and girls grow up as boys and then say, "Aha, this is the reason". | 0:33:07 | 0:33:11 | |
So I don't know how to answer that question. | 0:33:11 | 0:33:13 | |
The research in Philadelphia has been heavily criticised | 0:33:16 | 0:33:19 | |
but it does prompt us to ask | 0:33:19 | 0:33:21 | |
when and why do differences between men and women arise. | 0:33:21 | 0:33:26 | |
For me, this is the really critical question. | 0:33:26 | 0:33:29 | |
If we are finding behaviour differences between men and women | 0:33:29 | 0:33:34 | |
that may or may not be reflected in the structure of their brains, | 0:33:34 | 0:33:37 | |
how much are those behavioural differences coming from | 0:33:37 | 0:33:41 | |
basic biology, how much are they a product of the society we live in? | 0:33:41 | 0:33:47 | |
Hello, this is Abi. | 0:33:49 | 0:33:50 | |
Hi, Abi, how are you doing? | 0:33:50 | 0:33:52 | |
'We're staging an experiment. | 0:33:52 | 0:33:54 | |
'We're introducing Ali to baby Abi. | 0:33:54 | 0:33:56 | |
'We want to find out if there's more than just instinct at play | 0:33:58 | 0:34:01 | |
'when it comes to children's toy choices. | 0:34:01 | 0:34:03 | |
'Abi's mum is joining me to see how they get on but there's a twist. | 0:34:05 | 0:34:10 | |
'What Ali doesn't know is that baby Abi is really a little boy.' | 0:34:10 | 0:34:15 | |
So this is really interesting because Ali has just chosen | 0:34:16 | 0:34:21 | |
this little pink girl doll as the first toy to give to Abi. | 0:34:21 | 0:34:27 | |
She's wearing the same colour as you. | 0:34:27 | 0:34:29 | |
It's really cute. Look, he's going to pick the other one up now as well | 0:34:29 | 0:34:32 | |
so he's off to the rag doll. | 0:34:32 | 0:34:34 | |
But he hasn't reached for the ball or the van. | 0:34:35 | 0:34:38 | |
No, he hasn't, has he? | 0:34:38 | 0:34:40 | |
And that little truck that is just there within reach. | 0:34:40 | 0:34:43 | |
It hasn't been touched, has it? | 0:34:43 | 0:34:45 | |
No, I mean, you know he's definitely gone for the dolls first. | 0:34:45 | 0:34:48 | |
"Oh, you're a little girl, you'll probably want to play with dolls." | 0:34:48 | 0:34:52 | |
Hi. Here we go, this is Freddie. | 0:34:54 | 0:34:57 | |
'Next, baby Freddie is being introduced to Hayley.' | 0:34:57 | 0:35:01 | |
Do you want to play with the car? | 0:35:03 | 0:35:04 | |
'What Hayley doesn't know | 0:35:06 | 0:35:08 | |
'is that Freddie is actually a little girl named Freya.' | 0:35:08 | 0:35:12 | |
The fire truck? | 0:35:12 | 0:35:13 | |
-Hello! -What's she doing? | 0:35:16 | 0:35:20 | |
It's been quite interesting so far, actually. | 0:35:20 | 0:35:22 | |
There was a car and so she picked that up | 0:35:22 | 0:35:23 | |
and started playing with it first and then the next toy was | 0:35:23 | 0:35:26 | |
a purple truck and the next one was a cement mixer. | 0:35:26 | 0:35:28 | |
Definitely for the boys, the boys classically. | 0:35:28 | 0:35:31 | |
She really wants her to play with the ball. | 0:35:33 | 0:35:36 | |
She pushed it away! | 0:35:38 | 0:35:40 | |
-That's really weird. -"I'm not playing with that. | 0:35:40 | 0:35:43 | |
"What are you talking about?" | 0:35:43 | 0:35:44 | |
It seems most children have much less choice than you might | 0:35:46 | 0:35:50 | |
think in the kinds of toys they get to play with | 0:35:50 | 0:35:52 | |
and their gender identities are being powerfully shaped | 0:35:52 | 0:35:56 | |
from the earliest age. | 0:35:56 | 0:35:57 | |
What toys was the baby interested in? | 0:35:59 | 0:36:02 | |
I think Abi was interested in the doll at first. | 0:36:02 | 0:36:05 | |
I thought she might be cos I thought it was a model of her a little bit. | 0:36:05 | 0:36:08 | |
So balls and trucks and things, what did she think of those? | 0:36:08 | 0:36:11 | |
I don't really think she was that into them, not so much. | 0:36:11 | 0:36:14 | |
I think most of the girlie toys, I guess. | 0:36:14 | 0:36:17 | |
Yeah. So Abi is actually Alfie. | 0:36:17 | 0:36:20 | |
-This is actually a little boy that you were playing with. -No way! -Yes. | 0:36:20 | 0:36:25 | |
-THEY LAUGH -That's crazy, no way! | 0:36:25 | 0:36:27 | |
I have to reveal something to you here. | 0:36:27 | 0:36:28 | |
-That was actually a little girl. -Oh! Interesting experiment. | 0:36:28 | 0:36:31 | |
It is interesting. I'm so sorry to be so sneaky. | 0:36:31 | 0:36:35 | |
So does that make you think differently about the toys maybe? | 0:36:35 | 0:36:37 | |
-I would have never thought it. It looked like a little girl. -Yeah. | 0:36:37 | 0:36:41 | |
The toy experiment reveals just how differently | 0:36:42 | 0:36:45 | |
girls and boys are treated. | 0:36:45 | 0:36:47 | |
But what about more subtle forms of gender stereotyping, | 0:36:49 | 0:36:52 | |
stereotyping that perhaps even adults who are very | 0:36:52 | 0:36:55 | |
conscious of trying to avoid gender bias are still prone to? | 0:36:55 | 0:36:59 | |
We're recreating an experiment that explored the degree to which | 0:37:03 | 0:37:07 | |
parents push their children and what they expect of them. | 0:37:07 | 0:37:11 | |
In infancy, boys and girls' average crawling ability is the same | 0:37:11 | 0:37:15 | |
despite small differences in size. | 0:37:15 | 0:37:19 | |
But do we treat boys and girls differently? | 0:37:19 | 0:37:21 | |
So, Chloe, this is our experiment, | 0:37:24 | 0:37:27 | |
a bizarre looking contraption, | 0:37:27 | 0:37:29 | |
and the whole point of it is that you can raise this end | 0:37:29 | 0:37:32 | |
so you can make the slope steeper | 0:37:32 | 0:37:34 | |
and what we're interested in is how steep a slope Alice will crawl down. | 0:37:34 | 0:37:39 | |
I'd like you to raise it to what you think | 0:37:39 | 0:37:41 | |
she can actually successfully crawl down. | 0:37:41 | 0:37:44 | |
'Baby Alice is 14 months old. | 0:37:46 | 0:37:48 | |
'Her mum reckons she can crawl from a height of 52 centimetres.' | 0:37:48 | 0:37:53 | |
Let's have a go then. | 0:37:53 | 0:37:54 | |
Look, there's a bunny. Look, look, look. | 0:37:55 | 0:37:58 | |
And she did! You were right. | 0:38:00 | 0:38:01 | |
Next up is baby Josh, who's about the same age and weight as baby Alice. | 0:38:03 | 0:38:07 | |
So I think he'd actually be able to manage quite a high ramp. | 0:38:07 | 0:38:11 | |
Yeah - a bit more. | 0:38:21 | 0:38:24 | |
'It looks like Josh's mum thinks he can crawl from a considerably | 0:38:25 | 0:38:29 | |
'higher height than baby Alice, 12 centimetres higher.' | 0:38:29 | 0:38:33 | |
He's quite a fearless boy as well. | 0:38:33 | 0:38:35 | |
That's quite ambitious. | 0:38:35 | 0:38:36 | |
That's 67 centimetres high at this end of the ramp. | 0:38:36 | 0:38:39 | |
Yeah, I definitely think he'd be able to manage that. Come on! | 0:38:39 | 0:38:43 | |
-Yeah! Good boy. -He can do it. | 0:38:45 | 0:38:49 | |
We tried the same test with two slighter younger children of similar ages. | 0:38:51 | 0:38:56 | |
Gracie's mum thought she could cope with a height of 36 centimetres. | 0:38:56 | 0:39:00 | |
Easy! She can do it. | 0:39:03 | 0:39:05 | |
I'm so impressed. | 0:39:05 | 0:39:07 | |
'But Alfie's mum thought | 0:39:08 | 0:39:09 | |
he could climb from a height of 43 centimetres.' | 0:39:09 | 0:39:13 | |
He's doing it, he's doing it really well. | 0:39:13 | 0:39:15 | |
'In fact, in the original experiment with over 100 babies | 0:39:17 | 0:39:21 | |
'who displayed the same average crawling ability, | 0:39:21 | 0:39:23 | |
'parents estimated boys' crawling ability was higher than girls. | 0:39:23 | 0:39:28 | |
'It seems that from a very young age, parents may be | 0:39:28 | 0:39:32 | |
'pushing their boys to achieve in a way they just don't do for girls.' | 0:39:32 | 0:39:37 | |
If this is true of wider society, | 0:39:39 | 0:39:41 | |
what's the effect of that on our children's development? | 0:39:41 | 0:39:45 | |
Could it be limiting their choices in some way? | 0:39:45 | 0:39:48 | |
Could it be affecting what they end up doing in adulthood even? | 0:39:48 | 0:39:51 | |
I was very lucky. | 0:39:57 | 0:39:59 | |
Thinking back particularly to my teenage years, I don't | 0:39:59 | 0:40:03 | |
remember feeling that my choices were at all dictated by my gender. | 0:40:03 | 0:40:07 | |
I've come to Dunraven School in south London to speak to | 0:40:08 | 0:40:12 | |
students studying GCSE science. | 0:40:12 | 0:40:14 | |
I want to find out if they're going to continue with science for A level | 0:40:15 | 0:40:19 | |
and whether perceptions of gender might be affecting their choices. | 0:40:19 | 0:40:23 | |
You're completely segregating yourselves into male and female. | 0:40:23 | 0:40:26 | |
SHE LAUGHS | 0:40:26 | 0:40:28 | |
So do you think that boys are better at some subjects than others? | 0:40:29 | 0:40:34 | |
Who likes maths? | 0:40:35 | 0:40:36 | |
So definitely more of you boys. | 0:40:38 | 0:40:41 | |
Most girls that I know do art and dance and drama, that sort of thing. | 0:40:41 | 0:40:45 | |
I don't really know anybody who does maths or physics or science. | 0:40:45 | 0:40:48 | |
The more mathematical and challenging subjects is towards the boys. | 0:40:48 | 0:40:52 | |
Girls tend to choose other subjects instead of like physics and maths. | 0:40:52 | 0:40:57 | |
So what about physics then? | 0:40:57 | 0:40:58 | |
Is that more of a masculine subject then would you say? | 0:40:58 | 0:41:00 | |
I think so because most people think boys like maths more | 0:41:00 | 0:41:04 | |
and in physics there's a lot of maths involved. | 0:41:04 | 0:41:07 | |
I don't see myself doing it as A levels | 0:41:07 | 0:41:09 | |
because I've heard it's quite challenging. | 0:41:09 | 0:41:12 | |
I don't know, it's not my type of thing. | 0:41:12 | 0:41:14 | |
I'm more towards like creative stuff. | 0:41:14 | 0:41:16 | |
I'm not exactly sure what I want to do | 0:41:16 | 0:41:18 | |
but I know I want it to be something creative. | 0:41:18 | 0:41:21 | |
I think I'll probably just take like my interests | 0:41:21 | 0:41:24 | |
and what I like doing which is creative stuff. | 0:41:24 | 0:41:26 | |
Maybe something creative or like a vet because I like animals. | 0:41:26 | 0:41:33 | |
Thinking about careers then, | 0:41:33 | 0:41:35 | |
has anybody thought about science as a career? | 0:41:35 | 0:41:38 | |
My family want me to become a doctor of some sort. | 0:41:38 | 0:41:42 | |
I want to be a doctor as well but I don't really think I'd | 0:41:44 | 0:41:47 | |
do any of the creative stuff because that's not really my kind of thing. | 0:41:47 | 0:41:50 | |
I've wanted to be an architect for quite a while. | 0:41:50 | 0:41:53 | |
-Are you good at maths? -Yeah. | 0:41:53 | 0:41:54 | |
I've always liked maths and computing | 0:41:54 | 0:41:58 | |
so I thought I could be like a finance director. | 0:41:58 | 0:42:00 | |
-I want to be a computer scientist. -Right, OK. | 0:42:00 | 0:42:03 | |
There's a definite division going on here in the group. | 0:42:03 | 0:42:06 | |
Tell me what you think of, | 0:42:06 | 0:42:08 | |
if somebody says the word scientist to you, what comes into your head? | 0:42:08 | 0:42:11 | |
What do they look like? | 0:42:11 | 0:42:12 | |
-Lab coat. -Lab coat. -They're a man. | 0:42:12 | 0:42:15 | |
Yeah, I'd have that image as well of a man. | 0:42:15 | 0:42:17 | |
I think it's because, like, when you're growing up you watch | 0:42:17 | 0:42:20 | |
so much films and you get like a picture of every single job | 0:42:20 | 0:42:23 | |
role, so you get a picture of a scientist, a musician, | 0:42:23 | 0:42:26 | |
dancer, all these different job roles. | 0:42:26 | 0:42:29 | |
There's loads of TV and media like tells us | 0:42:29 | 0:42:32 | |
that a doctor or scientist is usually a man. | 0:42:32 | 0:42:36 | |
It's perceptions like these that are a cause for concern | 0:42:46 | 0:42:50 | |
for professor of cognitive neuro-imaging, Gina Rippon. | 0:42:50 | 0:42:53 | |
At her lab at Aston University in Birmingham, | 0:42:54 | 0:42:57 | |
she searches for links between behaviour and brain function. | 0:42:57 | 0:43:01 | |
She's found that when you interrogate the differences | 0:43:01 | 0:43:04 | |
between men and women, they're less striking than you might imagine. | 0:43:04 | 0:43:08 | |
Thank you! | 0:43:10 | 0:43:11 | |
I've noticed a claim that there are clear differences between male | 0:43:12 | 0:43:15 | |
and female brains and so given that that's the kind of work I do, | 0:43:15 | 0:43:19 | |
I have a look and see where these differences are | 0:43:19 | 0:43:22 | |
and I actually find them very hard to find. | 0:43:22 | 0:43:24 | |
You realise that actually the differences between males | 0:43:24 | 0:43:28 | |
and females are smaller than the differences within | 0:43:28 | 0:43:30 | |
groups of males and within groups of females, | 0:43:30 | 0:43:33 | |
and so searching for something which proves this is a male brain | 0:43:33 | 0:43:38 | |
or a female brain is... You're on a hiding to nothing, I think. | 0:43:38 | 0:43:42 | |
Hi, if you'd like to take a seat, please. | 0:43:43 | 0:43:45 | |
'Gina has set up an experiment where subjects are asked to imagine | 0:43:47 | 0:43:51 | |
'the point of view of another person.' | 0:43:51 | 0:43:53 | |
You will see this person sitting at various | 0:43:53 | 0:43:55 | |
positions around the table and your only task is to judge | 0:43:55 | 0:43:59 | |
whether the red target is on the left or on the right-hand side, | 0:43:59 | 0:44:02 | |
from the person, the other person's perspective. | 0:44:02 | 0:44:05 | |
'The task is made harder because the subject - in this case, me - | 0:44:05 | 0:44:09 | |
'is asked to change their body position throughout the experiment. | 0:44:09 | 0:44:13 | |
'It's testing similar mental rotation skills to our earlier test | 0:44:16 | 0:44:20 | |
'but the different way the task is presented has a significant effect.' | 0:44:20 | 0:44:24 | |
If you actually present a problem not as a mental rotation task | 0:44:26 | 0:44:30 | |
but as a perspective-taking task, so you could say to somebody imagine | 0:44:30 | 0:44:34 | |
you were on the other side of that object, what would it look like? | 0:44:34 | 0:44:38 | |
Females who've had trouble with the mental rotation actually find | 0:44:38 | 0:44:41 | |
it easier and sometimes all you need to do is say, | 0:44:41 | 0:44:44 | |
"Don't think of it as this, think of it as that," | 0:44:44 | 0:44:47 | |
and there's a kind of "a-ha!" moment. | 0:44:47 | 0:44:48 | |
'Tests like these have been conducted in countries around the world | 0:44:50 | 0:44:53 | |
'and the results have been striking.' | 0:44:53 | 0:44:56 | |
That gender difference disappears in different cultures | 0:44:56 | 0:45:00 | |
so it's showing that any variances is due to different sort of factors. | 0:45:00 | 0:45:05 | |
That's absolutely fascinating | 0:45:05 | 0:45:06 | |
because that suggests that the differences that we see between | 0:45:06 | 0:45:09 | |
men and women approaching this task, they've learned those differences. | 0:45:09 | 0:45:13 | |
It depended on the way that they've been brought up | 0:45:13 | 0:45:15 | |
and the roles that they've adopted in society? | 0:45:15 | 0:45:17 | |
That's right, and it may be nothing to do with the task itself | 0:45:17 | 0:45:21 | |
but it's, there are different ways of solving that problem. | 0:45:21 | 0:45:25 | |
For Gina, the way our brain adapts to its environment is a bigger | 0:45:26 | 0:45:30 | |
factor in sex differences than any kind of biological programming. | 0:45:30 | 0:45:35 | |
We now know that the brain is plastic throughout life | 0:45:35 | 0:45:38 | |
so as time goes on, experiences will change structures in the brain | 0:45:38 | 0:45:42 | |
and what you do will change your brain | 0:45:42 | 0:45:44 | |
and what other people do to you will change your brain as well, | 0:45:44 | 0:45:47 | |
so I think being aware of that is key and recently they've been | 0:45:47 | 0:45:50 | |
talking about differences in pathways, but pathways in the brain | 0:45:50 | 0:45:54 | |
are determined by experience, by, you know, | 0:45:54 | 0:45:57 | |
where you grew up, how you grew | 0:45:57 | 0:45:59 | |
up, how long you were in school, what kind of occupation you've got | 0:45:59 | 0:46:02 | |
now, so all of those things | 0:46:02 | 0:46:04 | |
are going to change the pathways in the brain. | 0:46:04 | 0:46:07 | |
And yet we do still hear that men on average are better at maths, | 0:46:07 | 0:46:12 | |
and that women are better at reading. | 0:46:12 | 0:46:14 | |
Does that make any sense at all? | 0:46:14 | 0:46:17 | |
It doesn't, again it doesn't stack up very well | 0:46:17 | 0:46:19 | |
and the idea that there's a maths brain, that your brain needs | 0:46:19 | 0:46:22 | |
to be configured in a particular way to do maths | 0:46:22 | 0:46:25 | |
flies in the face of all sorts of evidence | 0:46:25 | 0:46:27 | |
of how plastic our brains are. | 0:46:27 | 0:46:29 | |
So girls then get to believe that they're not good at maths | 0:46:29 | 0:46:32 | |
which means they aren't good at maths | 0:46:32 | 0:46:34 | |
and so you then get this self-fulfilling prophecy. | 0:46:34 | 0:46:37 | |
It's time to compare notes. | 0:46:41 | 0:46:43 | |
Now, we agree there are behavioural differences between the sexes. | 0:46:43 | 0:46:48 | |
But we don't agree on what causes them. | 0:46:48 | 0:46:51 | |
I still believe that some of those differences, we're born with. | 0:46:51 | 0:46:54 | |
Whereas I think more than ever that it's something we learn | 0:46:54 | 0:46:58 | |
and that actually the differences are tiny. | 0:46:58 | 0:47:01 | |
So, Michael, would you like to tell me | 0:47:02 | 0:47:04 | |
if this is a male or a female brain, just looking at it? | 0:47:04 | 0:47:07 | |
Well, I'm obviously looking to see the name first of all. | 0:47:07 | 0:47:10 | |
Going for male. | 0:47:11 | 0:47:12 | |
You're actually right but there's no way you could tell that | 0:47:12 | 0:47:15 | |
so you had a 50% chance of being right. I mean... | 0:47:15 | 0:47:18 | |
It's all the stuff I've learned, | 0:47:18 | 0:47:20 | |
I can tell immediately it was a male brain. | 0:47:20 | 0:47:22 | |
It had all the... You're right, it was a blind guess. | 0:47:22 | 0:47:24 | |
But on the other hand, I have been looking at some really | 0:47:24 | 0:47:27 | |
interesting stuff and that has convinced me that there is an | 0:47:27 | 0:47:30 | |
element, some exposure to hormones, that does structurally alter | 0:47:30 | 0:47:34 | |
things although you probably can't see it yet. | 0:47:34 | 0:47:37 | |
I accept that, but I honestly think that it's too much of a step | 0:47:37 | 0:47:42 | |
to say that somebody might have a male brain or a female brain, | 0:47:42 | 0:47:46 | |
that actually it's much more nuanced than that, that the | 0:47:46 | 0:47:48 | |
sex differences are just a tiny bit of the differences | 0:47:48 | 0:47:51 | |
between individuals, and there's a huge cultural, social influence | 0:47:51 | 0:47:56 | |
on the differences that we're perceiving between us as adults, | 0:47:56 | 0:47:59 | |
and I think these gender stereotypes are potentially quite destructive. | 0:47:59 | 0:48:02 | |
But maybe there's something that Michael and I can agree on. | 0:48:09 | 0:48:13 | |
Putting gender stereotypes and behaviour to one side, | 0:48:14 | 0:48:18 | |
there's another area of neuro-science | 0:48:18 | 0:48:20 | |
where sex differences could prove to be very important. | 0:48:20 | 0:48:24 | |
Around the globe, some of the world's leading | 0:48:26 | 0:48:28 | |
scientists are turning their attention, not to sex differences | 0:48:28 | 0:48:32 | |
in the way that men and women think and behave, | 0:48:32 | 0:48:35 | |
but the differences in the way they experience the world, differences | 0:48:35 | 0:48:39 | |
that could in the long term lead to real improvements in people's lives. | 0:48:39 | 0:48:43 | |
Throughout the world, doctors have observed a baffling phenomenon - | 0:48:46 | 0:48:50 | |
on average, women tend to experience pain more intensely than men. | 0:48:50 | 0:48:55 | |
Here in McGill University in Montreal, Professor Jeff Mogil | 0:48:56 | 0:49:00 | |
is trying to find out why. | 0:49:00 | 0:49:03 | |
As part of his research he conducts regular pain tests | 0:49:03 | 0:49:07 | |
and today I'm the competition. | 0:49:07 | 0:49:10 | |
Today we have a cooler of cold water. | 0:49:10 | 0:49:12 | |
I'm going to ask for you to submerge your hand up to the wrist | 0:49:12 | 0:49:15 | |
and so it will be painful but we're going to ask that you | 0:49:15 | 0:49:18 | |
leave your hand in for as long as possible and then when you can | 0:49:18 | 0:49:21 | |
no longer stand that sensation, to remove it from the water. | 0:49:21 | 0:49:25 | |
Yeah, how cold is it? 4.6? | 0:49:25 | 0:49:28 | |
4.6 and so it is going to be cold. | 0:49:28 | 0:49:32 | |
Right, so on the count of three - one, two, three, submerge please. | 0:49:32 | 0:49:36 | |
Oh, that's cold. | 0:49:41 | 0:49:42 | |
At the moment it is just cold. | 0:49:46 | 0:49:48 | |
'There are two parts of the test. | 0:49:48 | 0:49:50 | |
'First, Jeff and I must acknowledge | 0:49:50 | 0:49:53 | |
'when we first start to experience pain.' | 0:49:53 | 0:49:55 | |
OK, I'm in pain now, I think. | 0:49:56 | 0:49:58 | |
It feels like it's freezing. I can't believe that's 4.6. | 0:49:59 | 0:50:02 | |
Yeah, that's starting to hurt now, it's starting to hurt now. | 0:50:02 | 0:50:05 | |
Yeah, ooh! | 0:50:07 | 0:50:09 | |
It really does hurt, doesn't it? | 0:50:09 | 0:50:11 | |
Oh, it really does. | 0:50:11 | 0:50:12 | |
-It's surprising. -Oh, no, right OK, I really want to take my hand out now. | 0:50:12 | 0:50:16 | |
'At various intervals during the test, we must also rate our pain.' | 0:50:17 | 0:50:21 | |
OK, I'm going to ask that you rate now the unpleasantness | 0:50:23 | 0:50:26 | |
and the intensity. | 0:50:26 | 0:50:27 | |
It's pretty cold. | 0:50:35 | 0:50:37 | |
It's really cold and it's an, it is an unpleasant pain, isn't it? | 0:50:37 | 0:50:40 | |
It really is an unpleasant... | 0:50:40 | 0:50:42 | |
Yeah, part of the problem is just the sheer coldness | 0:50:42 | 0:50:45 | |
but the other part of the problem is that the cold water is | 0:50:45 | 0:50:48 | |
cutting off the blood supply to your hand | 0:50:48 | 0:50:50 | |
so it's actually causing ischaemia which itself is painful, right? | 0:50:50 | 0:50:54 | |
Sort of a double whammy. | 0:50:54 | 0:50:56 | |
An ischaemia pain is the worst pain | 0:50:56 | 0:50:58 | |
that you can actually put someone in, ethically. | 0:50:58 | 0:51:00 | |
Thanks, thanks! | 0:51:00 | 0:51:02 | |
Now he tells us. | 0:51:03 | 0:51:04 | |
Oh, no! Oh, God. | 0:51:08 | 0:51:10 | |
So I'd be curious if you could actually, | 0:51:10 | 0:51:12 | |
if you could make an X on the line now for a second reading? | 0:51:12 | 0:51:16 | |
Let's see how your pain has changed. | 0:51:16 | 0:51:18 | |
-It's not nice. -Wow! | 0:51:22 | 0:51:23 | |
OK, seven minutes. | 0:51:25 | 0:51:26 | |
'The test is stopped before Jeff and I can suffer any serious damage.' | 0:51:26 | 0:51:31 | |
Let's compare ratings. You OK? | 0:51:31 | 0:51:34 | |
Oh, it's hurting more now. | 0:51:34 | 0:51:36 | |
Yeah, it's going to hurt, it's going to hurt more for a minute or two. | 0:51:36 | 0:51:39 | |
-Oh, God! -But then you'll be fine. | 0:51:39 | 0:51:40 | |
Well, you can see the colouration. | 0:51:40 | 0:51:43 | |
'We both last the distance | 0:51:43 | 0:51:44 | |
'but was there any difference in our experience of the pain?' | 0:51:44 | 0:51:48 | |
So for you, your unpleasantness score was about a 7.5 on 10, so it | 0:51:48 | 0:51:54 | |
was very unpleasant, very unpleasant for you whereas Jeff gave a | 0:51:54 | 0:51:57 | |
rating of about, it looks about a 4, a 4 on 10 so it was less unpleasant | 0:51:57 | 0:52:03 | |
for you so the psychological component for you was more intense. | 0:52:03 | 0:52:06 | |
It was more unpleasant, I should say, | 0:52:06 | 0:52:08 | |
so it's interesting that there's a difference there. | 0:52:08 | 0:52:10 | |
In tests around the world, women report higher scores than | 0:52:12 | 0:52:16 | |
men for both pain intensity and pain unpleasantness. | 0:52:16 | 0:52:20 | |
Why do you think that is? | 0:52:20 | 0:52:21 | |
There are a lot of people that have studied sex differences in pain | 0:52:21 | 0:52:25 | |
that think it's due to the fact that it | 0:52:25 | 0:52:26 | |
is important for men to be macho and to be stoic in the face of pain. | 0:52:26 | 0:52:31 | |
And women, although they might want to, | 0:52:32 | 0:52:34 | |
they're certainly forgiven by society for not being stoic. | 0:52:34 | 0:52:38 | |
When little boys injure themselves in the playground, | 0:52:38 | 0:52:41 | |
mothers and fathers tell them to suck it up | 0:52:41 | 0:52:43 | |
but they don't do that to their little girls, right? | 0:52:43 | 0:52:46 | |
So some people think that that's all that sex differences | 0:52:46 | 0:52:49 | |
-in pain comes down to. -Do you think it's more than that? | 0:52:49 | 0:52:51 | |
Yeah, we think, we think it's more than that. | 0:52:51 | 0:52:53 | |
There's all kinds of reasons to believe now that there's | 0:52:53 | 0:52:56 | |
different neural systems in the brain in males and females. | 0:52:56 | 0:53:01 | |
Jeff has discovered that in some mice, the neural pathways | 0:53:08 | 0:53:12 | |
used to process pain are different in males and females. | 0:53:12 | 0:53:17 | |
He thinks the same could be true in humans. | 0:53:17 | 0:53:19 | |
I actually think that the pathways are probably right in the same | 0:53:25 | 0:53:31 | |
place but that the male system and the female system are different | 0:53:31 | 0:53:36 | |
and they're running parallel to each other, | 0:53:36 | 0:53:38 | |
and we have evidence that certain genes are involved in pain or pain | 0:53:38 | 0:53:42 | |
inhibition in one sex and simply not involved in the other sex. | 0:53:42 | 0:53:46 | |
-Not at all? -Not at all. | 0:53:46 | 0:53:48 | |
You can take them out and nothing changes in the other sex. | 0:53:48 | 0:53:50 | |
I think there's five or six or seven genes where people think | 0:53:50 | 0:53:55 | |
the involvement in the one sex is different than | 0:53:55 | 0:53:57 | |
the involvement in the other sex. | 0:53:57 | 0:53:59 | |
So the fact that there are these real physiological differences | 0:53:59 | 0:54:02 | |
in the way that men and women are experiencing pain, that | 0:54:02 | 0:54:06 | |
must have quite big implications for the way that drugs are developed. | 0:54:06 | 0:54:09 | |
Yeah, I think that's the key. | 0:54:09 | 0:54:11 | |
There's lots of drug development going on and if any of those | 0:54:11 | 0:54:14 | |
drugs ever make it to the market and get approved, my expectation | 0:54:14 | 0:54:19 | |
will be that they will work in one sex and simply not work in the | 0:54:19 | 0:54:24 | |
other sex, and if that ever happens that'll be a first in medicine. | 0:54:24 | 0:54:27 | |
I don't think there's an example of that yet. | 0:54:27 | 0:54:29 | |
I think we've only barely scratched the surface here | 0:54:30 | 0:54:33 | |
and that there's a big iceberg hiding under the water that we | 0:54:33 | 0:54:37 | |
and others are going to mine for some time to come. | 0:54:37 | 0:54:39 | |
Back in the UK, we're already seeing the first signs of that. | 0:54:51 | 0:54:55 | |
Scientists are doing research that could revolutionise medical | 0:54:55 | 0:54:59 | |
treatment for Britain's third biggest killer, stroke. | 0:54:59 | 0:55:03 | |
When I was a medical student, | 0:55:03 | 0:55:05 | |
I worked on a ward where a lot of people had had strokes. | 0:55:05 | 0:55:09 | |
Most of them were women. | 0:55:09 | 0:55:11 | |
We know that particularly after the menopause women are much more | 0:55:11 | 0:55:15 | |
likely to have a stroke than men and the outcomes tend to be worse. | 0:55:15 | 0:55:19 | |
Why? | 0:55:19 | 0:55:20 | |
Hormonal factors may play a part but Dr Claire Gibson | 0:55:23 | 0:55:27 | |
of the University of Leicester thinks there may be another cause. | 0:55:27 | 0:55:31 | |
She's been studying how brain cells die when strokes occur. | 0:55:31 | 0:55:36 | |
We have discovered that there are differences in the mechanism | 0:55:36 | 0:55:39 | |
of cell death that occur in the brains of males and females, | 0:55:39 | 0:55:44 | |
in disorders such as stroke. | 0:55:44 | 0:55:45 | |
Strokes happen when a clot or haemorrhage cuts off blood | 0:55:47 | 0:55:51 | |
to parts of the brain. | 0:55:51 | 0:55:52 | |
Cells die and some bodily functions are lost | 0:55:52 | 0:55:56 | |
but Claire has discovered that the pattern in which these cells die | 0:55:56 | 0:56:00 | |
is different in men and women | 0:56:00 | 0:56:02 | |
and may have important implications for future treatment. | 0:56:02 | 0:56:06 | |
Currently, the only treatment which is available | 0:56:06 | 0:56:08 | |
is for both men and women, | 0:56:08 | 0:56:10 | |
and it may be that some treatments may be more effective in men than | 0:56:10 | 0:56:13 | |
women, and it may be a possibility that we will be able to identify | 0:56:13 | 0:56:18 | |
treatments that only work in one gender and don't work in the other. | 0:56:18 | 0:56:21 | |
This research could have wider implications. | 0:56:21 | 0:56:25 | |
I think this notion that one size is going to fit all probably | 0:56:25 | 0:56:28 | |
isn't true and this would be the same for a lot of complex | 0:56:28 | 0:56:31 | |
brain disorders such as Huntington's disease, | 0:56:31 | 0:56:33 | |
Alzheimer's disease as well. | 0:56:33 | 0:56:35 | |
These diseases are very complex and therefore it's unlikely that | 0:56:35 | 0:56:39 | |
we're going to find one single drug that acts to benefit all patients | 0:56:39 | 0:56:43 | |
that experience that disorder so I think it's very likely that it | 0:56:43 | 0:56:47 | |
could result in gender-specific treatments down the line. | 0:56:47 | 0:56:52 | |
For me, this is why sex difference research really matters, | 0:56:52 | 0:56:56 | |
helping us find more accurate and effective ways to tackle disease. | 0:56:56 | 0:57:00 | |
Claims about the differences between male and female brains | 0:57:03 | 0:57:06 | |
may always be controversial | 0:57:06 | 0:57:09 | |
but at the end of our investigation, are our views any closer? | 0:57:09 | 0:57:14 | |
So what do you think then? | 0:57:14 | 0:57:15 | |
Well, I must admit I thought it really, really interesting. | 0:57:15 | 0:57:18 | |
I think probably the biggest surprise for me | 0:57:18 | 0:57:21 | |
was the stuff around pain and around stroke, | 0:57:21 | 0:57:23 | |
and certainly the most sort of fertile area going forward. | 0:57:23 | 0:57:26 | |
I thought that was really fantastic and really quite extraordinary. | 0:57:26 | 0:57:29 | |
I think the really important thing that's come out of this | 0:57:29 | 0:57:31 | |
though is the malleability, the plasticity of the brain. | 0:57:31 | 0:57:34 | |
The brain is responding to the environment it's in | 0:57:34 | 0:57:37 | |
so we're getting gender differences appearing | 0:57:37 | 0:57:40 | |
because of gender stereotypes which will affect our children's brains. | 0:57:40 | 0:57:44 | |
I still think there is some influence of hormones | 0:57:44 | 0:57:48 | |
on behaviour and I find that quite compelling. | 0:57:48 | 0:57:50 | |
I'm not saying there aren't any innate differences | 0:57:50 | 0:57:53 | |
but they are small | 0:57:53 | 0:57:55 | |
and they only explain a tiny bit of the variation between individuals. | 0:57:55 | 0:57:58 | |
Yeah, absolutely, I must admit I agree | 0:57:58 | 0:58:01 | |
so I have a confession to make. | 0:58:01 | 0:58:02 | |
I am really not from Mars! | 0:58:02 | 0:58:04 | |
I'm definitely not from Venus! | 0:58:04 | 0:58:05 |