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-I wish I could make you feel safe. -Can't you warn him off for me? | 0:00:02 | 0:00:04 | |
-Drive. -What happened? -Go, go! | 0:00:04 | 0:00:06 | |
Trust me. Everything's going to be OK. | 0:00:06 | 0:00:09 | |
I'll see you in Apple Tree Yard. | 0:00:09 | 0:00:10 | |
Were you there when Mark Costley | 0:00:13 | 0:00:15 | |
beat and kicked George Selway to death, Yvonne? | 0:00:15 | 0:00:18 | |
I just don't get why you went to him. | 0:00:18 | 0:00:20 | |
Costley's effectively pleading guilty to manslaughter. | 0:00:21 | 0:00:24 | |
If they accept Costley's plea, | 0:00:24 | 0:00:26 | |
they still can come after you for murder. | 0:00:26 | 0:00:28 | |
That you have brought into your mess! | 0:00:28 | 0:00:31 | |
You deserve everything you get! | 0:00:31 | 0:00:34 | |
The first defendant, Mark Liam Costley, | 0:00:34 | 0:00:36 | |
claimed that he is not responsible for the killing of George Selway | 0:00:36 | 0:00:40 | |
because he has a personality disorder. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:42 | |
What are "special measures"? | 0:00:42 | 0:00:44 | |
Yes, that's the witness that needs to retain anonymity. | 0:00:44 | 0:00:47 | |
-The MI5 man, yes? -Yeah. | 0:00:47 | 0:00:50 | |
I'm asking if you were happy enough with Mark Costley's mental state? | 0:00:50 | 0:00:54 | |
It was purely for me to turn him down | 0:00:54 | 0:00:56 | |
as an unsuitable candidate for the security services. | 0:00:56 | 0:00:59 | |
This programme contains some strong language and scenes which some viewers may find disturbing. | 0:01:03 | 0:01:07 | |
YVONNE: Who are you really? | 0:01:20 | 0:01:22 | |
You may not be a spook, Mark Costley... | 0:01:24 | 0:01:27 | |
..but one thing's clear... | 0:01:29 | 0:01:31 | |
-MARK: -You're beautiful. | 0:01:33 | 0:01:35 | |
..you're in love with secrets. | 0:01:37 | 0:01:39 | |
Life's mysterious... | 0:01:41 | 0:01:42 | |
Maybe that's all we shared, you and I... | 0:01:42 | 0:01:46 | |
Trust me. | 0:01:47 | 0:01:49 | |
..a secret. | 0:01:51 | 0:01:52 | |
A secret we have to keep. | 0:01:56 | 0:01:59 | |
CLOCK TICKS RAPIDLY | 0:02:01 | 0:02:05 | |
Sergeant Johns, the man we have in the dock here, Mr Costley, | 0:02:14 | 0:02:19 | |
-do you know him? -Yes, I worked with him | 0:02:19 | 0:02:22 | |
throughout my time at the Crown Estate. | 0:02:22 | 0:02:24 | |
-On a daily basis? -That's correct. | 0:02:24 | 0:02:26 | |
Would you mind describing to the court | 0:02:26 | 0:02:29 | |
Mark Costley's responsibilities as a security advisor, | 0:02:29 | 0:02:32 | |
so far as you understand them? | 0:02:32 | 0:02:34 | |
Certainly. | 0:02:34 | 0:02:35 | |
It was his job to ensure compliance, health and safety, | 0:02:35 | 0:02:39 | |
any arrangements for special events, | 0:02:39 | 0:02:41 | |
checking the duty log, | 0:02:41 | 0:02:42 | |
supervising shifts for the CCTV monitoring crews, | 0:02:42 | 0:02:46 | |
that sort of thing. | 0:02:46 | 0:02:47 | |
And was Mr Costley good at his job? | 0:02:47 | 0:02:49 | |
Yes, he was, on the whole. He was very reliable. | 0:02:49 | 0:02:53 | |
Efficient. | 0:02:53 | 0:02:55 | |
During the time you worked with him, until he was arrested, | 0:02:55 | 0:02:59 | |
did your colleague display any behaviour | 0:02:59 | 0:03:02 | |
that led to concerns that he might be unstable psychologically? | 0:03:02 | 0:03:06 | |
No. He did everything that was required of him. | 0:03:06 | 0:03:09 | |
-He was just...normal. -Normal? | 0:03:09 | 0:03:12 | |
To talk to, the way he acted. | 0:03:12 | 0:03:15 | |
Were you aware of any change | 0:03:15 | 0:03:17 | |
in what you describe as Mark Costley's "normal" behaviour | 0:03:17 | 0:03:20 | |
in the days before the killing of George Selway | 0:03:20 | 0:03:23 | |
on March the 12th of this year? | 0:03:23 | 0:03:25 | |
I can't remember any change at all. | 0:03:26 | 0:03:28 | |
-He seemed...how he always did. -What about prior to that? | 0:03:28 | 0:03:32 | |
In November of the previous year, | 0:03:33 | 0:03:35 | |
when Yvonne Carmichael told him she'd been raped, | 0:03:35 | 0:03:37 | |
did you observe any change | 0:03:37 | 0:03:39 | |
-in your colleague Mark Costley's behaviour at that time? -No. | 0:03:39 | 0:03:43 | |
I don't remember any change whatsoever. | 0:03:43 | 0:03:46 | |
He was just Mark. | 0:03:46 | 0:03:48 | |
Sergeant Johns, you've told the court | 0:03:48 | 0:03:50 | |
that you saw no change in Mark Costley's behaviour | 0:03:50 | 0:03:53 | |
-in November of last year. Is that correct? -Yes. | 0:03:53 | 0:03:56 | |
That's not strictly true, is it? | 0:03:56 | 0:03:59 | |
In respect of Mark Costley's behaviour to you... | 0:04:00 | 0:04:02 | |
was there a change in November last year? | 0:04:02 | 0:04:05 | |
Not really. I don't think so. | 0:04:06 | 0:04:09 | |
Isn't it the case that, during November | 0:04:09 | 0:04:12 | |
and into December of last year, | 0:04:12 | 0:04:15 | |
the two of you had had a short-lived relationship, | 0:04:15 | 0:04:17 | |
which ended acrimoniously? | 0:04:17 | 0:04:19 | |
-No. That's absolutely untrue. -Which bit? | 0:04:19 | 0:04:22 | |
That you and Mr Costley were in a relationship, or that it was over? | 0:04:22 | 0:04:25 | |
It wasn't a relationship. | 0:04:25 | 0:04:27 | |
I wouldn't describe it like that at all. | 0:04:28 | 0:04:30 | |
-How would you describe it? -I would say... | 0:04:30 | 0:04:33 | |
..Mark propositioned me. | 0:04:34 | 0:04:36 | |
And had he "propositioned" you prior to this? | 0:04:37 | 0:04:39 | |
No. | 0:04:39 | 0:04:41 | |
So this marked a change in his behaviour, then, towards you, | 0:04:42 | 0:04:45 | |
-in November of last year? -Well, I suppose so. | 0:04:45 | 0:04:47 | |
I thought that you meant his general behav... | 0:04:47 | 0:04:49 | |
You went for drinks with Mr Costley after work | 0:04:49 | 0:04:51 | |
on, I believe, three or four occasions. | 0:04:51 | 0:04:54 | |
Not that many times. | 0:04:54 | 0:04:56 | |
-Once or twice. -Which was it? Once or twice? | 0:04:56 | 0:04:59 | |
-Twice, maybe. -Oh, really? | 0:04:59 | 0:05:01 | |
Well, my information is that it was at least three times. | 0:05:01 | 0:05:04 | |
And on the last of these occasions, in early December of last year, | 0:05:04 | 0:05:07 | |
you had intimate contact with Mr Costley | 0:05:07 | 0:05:10 | |
in a Westminster pub called the Bull And Keg. | 0:05:10 | 0:05:13 | |
Firstly...the first time we went out was with a group of people. | 0:05:13 | 0:05:16 | |
So I would say twice. | 0:05:16 | 0:05:18 | |
Secondly, the contact that you're referring to | 0:05:18 | 0:05:21 | |
-was initiated by him and I told him to stop. -Immediately? | 0:05:21 | 0:05:24 | |
Did you ask him to stop immediately, Sergeant Johns? | 0:05:28 | 0:05:31 | |
Not immediately. No. | 0:05:36 | 0:05:38 | |
So perhaps you could take us through | 0:05:38 | 0:05:40 | |
exactly what happened between you in the Bull And Keg. | 0:05:40 | 0:05:42 | |
We'd had a few drinks and Mark... | 0:05:44 | 0:05:47 | |
Mr Costley had his hand on my knee. | 0:05:47 | 0:05:50 | |
It was making me uncomfortable. | 0:05:50 | 0:05:52 | |
Just having his hand on your knee? | 0:05:54 | 0:05:56 | |
No. | 0:05:56 | 0:05:57 | |
I have no wish to embarrass you, Sergeant, | 0:06:00 | 0:06:02 | |
but can I suggest that you and Mr Costley | 0:06:02 | 0:06:04 | |
had been drinking together since around 6pm? | 0:06:04 | 0:06:07 | |
He had his hand on your knee beneath the table. | 0:06:07 | 0:06:10 | |
At some point, he moved his hand under your skirt, | 0:06:10 | 0:06:14 | |
down your tights and into your underwear... | 0:06:14 | 0:06:17 | |
..where he proceeded, I believe the appropriate colloquialism is, | 0:06:18 | 0:06:21 | |
to finger you. | 0:06:21 | 0:06:23 | |
My Lord, I fail to see how this is in any way necessary. | 0:06:23 | 0:06:25 | |
Well, I'm seeking to establish the fitness of the witness | 0:06:25 | 0:06:28 | |
to assess the defendant's mental state. | 0:06:28 | 0:06:30 | |
KATE SLAMS THE DOOR | 0:06:30 | 0:06:31 | |
I'll allow this question. | 0:06:31 | 0:06:33 | |
But move on swiftly, please, Ms Bonnard. | 0:06:33 | 0:06:35 | |
Did Mr Costley insert his fingers into your vagina, Sergeant Johns? | 0:06:35 | 0:06:39 | |
Yes. | 0:06:46 | 0:06:48 | |
And did you prevent him from doing so, or object in any way? | 0:06:48 | 0:06:50 | |
Not at the time, no. | 0:06:52 | 0:06:54 | |
So in other words, you and Mr Costley | 0:06:54 | 0:06:56 | |
had intimate sexual contact, did you not? | 0:06:56 | 0:06:58 | |
You know, which in many people's eyes, constitutes a relationship. | 0:06:58 | 0:07:02 | |
I told him I didn't like it. | 0:07:08 | 0:07:10 | |
Was this in the pub? | 0:07:10 | 0:07:12 | |
No. At work, the next day. | 0:07:14 | 0:07:17 | |
It was embarrassing. | 0:07:17 | 0:07:19 | |
I told him I wasn't interested and, after that, | 0:07:20 | 0:07:23 | |
he made it clear that he was giving me the cold shoulder. | 0:07:23 | 0:07:26 | |
Things got quite hostile on his part, actually. | 0:07:26 | 0:07:29 | |
He started ignoring me in meetings and so on. | 0:07:29 | 0:07:32 | |
He made it really difficult. | 0:07:32 | 0:07:34 | |
So, when you told this court... | 0:07:34 | 0:07:36 | |
..that Mr Costley was "just Mark'"... | 0:07:38 | 0:07:41 | |
..in both November of last year, when Yvonne Carmichael | 0:07:42 | 0:07:44 | |
sought his advice after her rape by George Selway | 0:07:44 | 0:07:47 | |
and in the days immediately preceding | 0:07:47 | 0:07:49 | |
the killing of George Selway, | 0:07:49 | 0:07:51 | |
did his "normal" pattern of behaviour | 0:07:51 | 0:07:52 | |
include the sexual advances towards you | 0:07:52 | 0:07:55 | |
and his "difficult" professional behaviour? | 0:07:55 | 0:07:57 | |
I just meant...the day-to-day. It was nothing I couldn't handle. | 0:07:57 | 0:08:01 | |
Is being felt up by a colleague in the pub normal, | 0:08:01 | 0:08:03 | |
-as far as you're concerned, Sergeant Johns? -No! | 0:08:03 | 0:08:05 | |
Of course it's not! | 0:08:05 | 0:08:06 | |
No further questions for this witness, my Lord. | 0:08:08 | 0:08:11 | |
No questions, my Lord. | 0:08:15 | 0:08:16 | |
Thank you, Sergeant Johns. You may step down. | 0:08:18 | 0:08:21 | |
YVONNE: Poor Sergeant Johns. | 0:08:23 | 0:08:25 | |
Two weeks after I told you what George Selway did to me... | 0:08:26 | 0:08:30 | |
..you were in that pub with her. | 0:08:31 | 0:08:33 | |
That's how much I mean to you. | 0:08:33 | 0:08:36 | |
Dr Sanderson, can you tell the jury what you do? | 0:08:36 | 0:08:40 | |
I'm a consultant forensic psychiatrist | 0:08:40 | 0:08:42 | |
and I've been practising as such for the last 23 years. | 0:08:42 | 0:08:45 | |
You conducted an assessment of Mark Costley while he was on remand. | 0:08:45 | 0:08:50 | |
-Is that correct? -That's correct. | 0:08:50 | 0:08:52 | |
Having examined Mark Costley, | 0:08:52 | 0:08:54 | |
do you assess him as suffering from a personality disorder? | 0:08:54 | 0:08:57 | |
-I do not. -Why is that? | 0:08:57 | 0:08:59 | |
An individual with a personality disorder | 0:09:00 | 0:09:04 | |
would not possess Mr Costley's solid work record, for one, | 0:09:04 | 0:09:08 | |
or his complete lack of psychiatric history. | 0:09:08 | 0:09:11 | |
It's also extremely unlikely | 0:09:11 | 0:09:14 | |
that a personality-disordered individual | 0:09:14 | 0:09:16 | |
would hold down a stable marriage, | 0:09:16 | 0:09:19 | |
let alone a career in the civil service. | 0:09:19 | 0:09:22 | |
And setting all that aside, | 0:09:22 | 0:09:24 | |
during my assessment, | 0:09:24 | 0:09:26 | |
Mr Costley displayed none of the signs or symptoms | 0:09:26 | 0:09:30 | |
of a personality disorder. | 0:09:30 | 0:09:32 | |
What are those? | 0:09:32 | 0:09:34 | |
Emotional instability. | 0:09:34 | 0:09:36 | |
Lack of individual identity. | 0:09:36 | 0:09:38 | |
A pattern of run-ins with the law. | 0:09:38 | 0:09:41 | |
Suicidal behaviours. | 0:09:41 | 0:09:43 | |
Addictions of various kinds. | 0:09:43 | 0:09:45 | |
So... | 0:09:45 | 0:09:47 | |
during your examination, Mr Costley displayed none of these? | 0:09:47 | 0:09:51 | |
No. | 0:09:51 | 0:09:52 | |
In my expert opinion, he has difficulty telling the truth. | 0:09:52 | 0:09:57 | |
But the pursuit of extramarital sex | 0:09:57 | 0:10:00 | |
and a tendency to embroider the facts | 0:10:00 | 0:10:02 | |
do not mean that he is mentally unwell. | 0:10:02 | 0:10:06 | |
Otherwise, half the men in the country would be seeking treatment. | 0:10:06 | 0:10:09 | |
Coming now to previous offences on file... | 0:10:13 | 0:10:17 | |
Yes. In 2005, | 0:10:17 | 0:10:18 | |
Mark Costley pleaded guilty to the charge | 0:10:18 | 0:10:21 | |
of assault occasioning actual bodily harm. | 0:10:21 | 0:10:23 | |
Thank you, Detective Inspector Cleveland. | 0:10:23 | 0:10:26 | |
That concludes the case for the Crown, my Lord. | 0:10:26 | 0:10:29 | |
YVONNE: I don't know you at all, do I? | 0:10:35 | 0:10:37 | |
I never did. | 0:10:37 | 0:10:39 | |
And you are all that's standing between me and a prison sentence. | 0:10:39 | 0:10:43 | |
-GARY: -I'm sorry I wasn't there this afternoon. | 0:10:47 | 0:10:49 | |
I took Carrie in for a check-up. | 0:10:49 | 0:10:51 | |
-But everything's OK, isn't it? -Yes. Yeah. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:54 | |
-You would tell me if it wasn't? -Absolutely fine. | 0:10:55 | 0:10:58 | |
Of course. | 0:10:58 | 0:11:00 | |
The baby's just not ready to come out yet. | 0:11:00 | 0:11:02 | |
All OK this afternoon? | 0:11:02 | 0:11:04 | |
Yeah. | 0:11:05 | 0:11:07 | |
Smoke and mirrors, you know? | 0:11:07 | 0:11:09 | |
You know I love you. | 0:11:10 | 0:11:12 | |
Stay strong, hm? | 0:11:12 | 0:11:13 | |
-I'll see you tomorrow, love. -Bye. | 0:11:15 | 0:11:17 | |
GARY HANGS UP | 0:11:17 | 0:11:19 | |
Good morning, Dr Carmichael. | 0:11:25 | 0:11:28 | |
We're getting there. | 0:11:28 | 0:11:29 | |
Even Ms Bonnard shouldn't be able to spin her case out | 0:11:29 | 0:11:32 | |
-beyond the end of today. -Really? | 0:11:32 | 0:11:34 | |
Well, Mr Costley won't be in the box, as they're pleading diminished. | 0:11:34 | 0:11:38 | |
So, er...yeah. | 0:11:38 | 0:11:39 | |
The...assault that the prosecution mentioned yesterday, | 0:11:39 | 0:11:43 | |
that Mark was charged with, | 0:11:43 | 0:11:46 | |
do you know the details? | 0:11:46 | 0:11:48 | |
He, er...attacked a man outside a restaurant | 0:11:48 | 0:11:51 | |
who was chatting up his wife, I believe. | 0:11:51 | 0:11:53 | |
Broke his jaw. | 0:11:53 | 0:11:55 | |
The defence managed to limit the admission, | 0:11:55 | 0:11:57 | |
so the jury doesn't know that. | 0:11:57 | 0:11:59 | |
It won't have exactly improved their opinion of him, though, | 0:11:59 | 0:12:02 | |
-hearing he has a conviction. -Do you think they think it's murder? | 0:12:02 | 0:12:05 | |
Well, in my experience, | 0:12:06 | 0:12:08 | |
it's always best not to try and second-guess what a jury's thinking. | 0:12:08 | 0:12:12 | |
Hopefully, the defence psychiatrist Ms Bonnard is calling | 0:12:12 | 0:12:14 | |
will help convince the jury that Mr Costley is mad, rather than bad. | 0:12:14 | 0:12:18 | |
Not that we're relying on his defence, you understand. | 0:12:18 | 0:12:21 | |
But it would help our case, wouldn't it? | 0:12:21 | 0:12:23 | |
Diminished responsibility. Manslaughter. | 0:12:23 | 0:12:27 | |
It would help, certainly. | 0:12:27 | 0:12:28 | |
When I examined Mark Costley, | 0:12:31 | 0:12:32 | |
he displayed very highly developed coping mechanisms, | 0:12:32 | 0:12:36 | |
considering the situation he was in, the stress he was under. | 0:12:36 | 0:12:39 | |
Coping... | 0:12:39 | 0:12:41 | |
Isn't that the sign of someone who's psychologically healthy, Dr Sadiq? | 0:12:41 | 0:12:44 | |
Not necessarily. Not all patients with disordered personalities | 0:12:44 | 0:12:48 | |
have chaotic lives. | 0:12:48 | 0:12:49 | |
Very intelligent people, with good support systems, | 0:12:49 | 0:12:52 | |
they can be what you could call high-functioning patients. | 0:12:52 | 0:12:56 | |
Their coping, in fact, masks more deep-seated symptoms. | 0:12:56 | 0:12:59 | |
Could you tell us, Dr Sadiq, how a personality disorder | 0:12:59 | 0:13:02 | |
might be displayed in a patient... | 0:13:02 | 0:13:04 | |
CROSS EXAMINATION FADES AWAY | 0:13:04 | 0:13:07 | |
What did you think of me, the first time you saw me? Honestly? | 0:13:07 | 0:13:11 | |
Well... | 0:13:11 | 0:13:12 | |
I thought... | 0:13:13 | 0:13:15 | |
..I would. | 0:13:16 | 0:13:17 | |
SHE CHUCKLES | 0:13:17 | 0:13:19 | |
-Well, you did. -I did. -Yeah. | 0:13:19 | 0:13:21 | |
SHE CHUCKLES | 0:13:21 | 0:13:23 | |
So was it just that? | 0:13:23 | 0:13:25 | |
Seriously, like, "I would"? | 0:13:25 | 0:13:26 | |
No, I just thought... | 0:13:27 | 0:13:29 | |
..you seemed to know what you were doing. | 0:13:31 | 0:13:33 | |
No, not like that! | 0:13:35 | 0:13:36 | |
Well, yes, like that. | 0:13:36 | 0:13:38 | |
But you seemed... | 0:13:42 | 0:13:43 | |
..right. | 0:13:46 | 0:13:48 | |
Sound. | 0:13:50 | 0:13:51 | |
Sound... | 0:13:51 | 0:13:53 | |
..so, in Mr Costley's case, he dissociates. | 0:14:01 | 0:14:04 | |
He detaches from real life | 0:14:04 | 0:14:06 | |
and creates his own self-sustaining narrative. | 0:14:06 | 0:14:08 | |
Forgive me, Doctor. Would you mind putting that in layperson's terms? | 0:14:08 | 0:14:12 | |
Sorry. | 0:14:12 | 0:14:13 | |
Patients like Mr Costley, | 0:14:13 | 0:14:16 | |
they make themselves the hero of their own story, | 0:14:16 | 0:14:19 | |
almost like they're in a film, or a book, | 0:14:19 | 0:14:21 | |
and they're watching themselves as the main character. | 0:14:21 | 0:14:24 | |
And to other people, this tendency to make up stories, | 0:14:24 | 0:14:27 | |
could it make the sufferer seem merely...a bit of a fantasist? | 0:14:27 | 0:14:31 | |
It could look like that, on the outside, yes. | 0:14:31 | 0:14:33 | |
But it would represent an abnormality of mental functioning, | 0:14:33 | 0:14:37 | |
-is that correct? -That is correct. | 0:14:37 | 0:14:39 | |
What happens, Dr Sadiq, when someone suffering from this type of disorder | 0:14:40 | 0:14:45 | |
is put in an unusually stressful situation? | 0:14:45 | 0:14:47 | |
Well, if their sense of safety is challenged | 0:14:47 | 0:14:50 | |
by the loss of their stable environment, | 0:14:50 | 0:14:53 | |
they decompensate. | 0:14:53 | 0:14:55 | |
Decompensate... What does that mean? | 0:14:55 | 0:14:57 | |
Act oddly, if you like. | 0:14:57 | 0:14:59 | |
They might then start showing chaotic behaviour, | 0:14:59 | 0:15:02 | |
disturbed behaviour, violent or self-destructive tendencies. | 0:15:02 | 0:15:05 | |
-Violent, you say? -Yes. | 0:15:05 | 0:15:07 | |
They might lash out, lose control completely. | 0:15:07 | 0:15:10 | |
And in an altercation, such as we can assume | 0:15:10 | 0:15:14 | |
took place between George Selway and Mark Costley... | 0:15:14 | 0:15:17 | |
-Objection! -Ms Bonnard... | 0:15:17 | 0:15:19 | |
My Lord. | 0:15:19 | 0:15:20 | |
To be clear, Dr Sadiq, in a personality-disordered individual, | 0:15:22 | 0:15:28 | |
such as the type you're describing, | 0:15:28 | 0:15:30 | |
could an argument or a physical threat | 0:15:30 | 0:15:33 | |
substantially impair their ability to keep a grip | 0:15:33 | 0:15:36 | |
on what a reasonable response might be? | 0:15:36 | 0:15:38 | |
I think so, yes. | 0:15:38 | 0:15:40 | |
Right, so their abnormality of mental functioning | 0:15:40 | 0:15:43 | |
would, in this situation, | 0:15:43 | 0:15:46 | |
affect their ability to exercise self-control? | 0:15:46 | 0:15:50 | |
Yes, it would. | 0:15:50 | 0:15:51 | |
Returning to Mark Costley, | 0:15:51 | 0:15:54 | |
during your examination of him, what conclusions did you draw? | 0:15:54 | 0:15:57 | |
I was struck by his almost inappropriate ability | 0:15:57 | 0:16:01 | |
to manage this very stressful situation he was in | 0:16:01 | 0:16:04 | |
as though he'd found a different story to tell himself. | 0:16:04 | 0:16:07 | |
Added to the nature of the crime he's admitted to, | 0:16:07 | 0:16:10 | |
his history of risky sexual encounters, | 0:16:10 | 0:16:13 | |
even his attraction to the secret service... | 0:16:13 | 0:16:16 | |
In my opinion, Mark Costley fits the profile of someone | 0:16:16 | 0:16:20 | |
with a high-functioning personality disorder. | 0:16:20 | 0:16:22 | |
Thank you. | 0:16:24 | 0:16:25 | |
No questions for the witness, my Lord. | 0:16:28 | 0:16:31 | |
Dr Sadiq, this theory of yours | 0:16:31 | 0:16:34 | |
about so-called high-functioning personality disorders, | 0:16:34 | 0:16:37 | |
am I correct in saying it formed the basis of your PhD thesis | 0:16:37 | 0:16:40 | |
-at Kingston University? -Yes, that's right. | 0:16:40 | 0:16:44 | |
So would it be fair to say it's your pet theory? | 0:16:44 | 0:16:47 | |
Well...in a way. | 0:16:48 | 0:16:50 | |
It's certainly a theory I've done a great deal of work on. | 0:16:52 | 0:16:55 | |
-It explains a lot, in my opinion. -Indeed. | 0:16:55 | 0:16:58 | |
But isn't it the case that your theory is countered | 0:16:58 | 0:17:01 | |
by the recognised diagnostic categorisation systems | 0:17:01 | 0:17:04 | |
-used in psychiatry? -Well, I wouldn't say countered. | 0:17:04 | 0:17:08 | |
For instance, the Worldwide Disease Classification Index... | 0:17:08 | 0:17:11 | |
Is high-functioning personality disorder | 0:17:11 | 0:17:14 | |
included in the current manual, Dr Sadiq? | 0:17:14 | 0:17:16 | |
It isn't in WDCI-10. | 0:17:16 | 0:17:19 | |
But we're hoping, by the time WDCI-11 comes out, | 0:17:19 | 0:17:22 | |
-it'll be included. -No doubt. | 0:17:22 | 0:17:24 | |
But does high-functioning personality disorder | 0:17:24 | 0:17:27 | |
appear anywhere in this highly respected reference work? | 0:17:27 | 0:17:31 | |
Erm... | 0:17:34 | 0:17:35 | |
it isn't yet classified as a separate diagnosis in the WDCI. | 0:17:35 | 0:17:39 | |
But in WDCI-11, the intention is to move to a spectrum-based... | 0:17:39 | 0:17:43 | |
Thank you, Dr Sadiq. | 0:17:43 | 0:17:45 | |
In the Biannual Study Papers Of Mental Disorders, Volume 24, | 0:17:46 | 0:17:51 | |
dated March 2013, | 0:17:51 | 0:17:53 | |
there is a specific refutation of your theory | 0:17:53 | 0:17:57 | |
in an article by Dr Michael Sedora, | 0:17:57 | 0:17:59 | |
an expert in borderline personality disorders | 0:17:59 | 0:18:03 | |
of some 22 years' standing. | 0:18:03 | 0:18:05 | |
It's page 72, my Lord, footnote five. | 0:18:05 | 0:18:08 | |
See "Sadiq, Kingston, | 0:18:08 | 0:18:10 | |
"High-Functioning Personality Disorder | 0:18:10 | 0:18:13 | |
"And The Disguise Of Pathological Trait Domains." | 0:18:13 | 0:18:16 | |
That is the name of your PhD thesis, Dr Sadiq? | 0:18:16 | 0:18:19 | |
Dr Sadiq? | 0:18:22 | 0:18:23 | |
Yes, that's right. | 0:18:24 | 0:18:26 | |
"I find no clinical evidence that the so-called | 0:18:28 | 0:18:32 | |
"high-functioning individual is able to disguise traits | 0:18:32 | 0:18:36 | |
"such as compulsivity or antagonism | 0:18:36 | 0:18:39 | |
"from family members or medical professionals." | 0:18:39 | 0:18:42 | |
They're missing the fundamental point of my thesis, | 0:18:42 | 0:18:45 | |
which is that personality is not a binary concept but a spectrum. | 0:18:45 | 0:18:48 | |
"I discount entirely the existence of a high-functioning category | 0:18:48 | 0:18:53 | |
"separate from the current definition | 0:18:53 | 0:18:54 | |
"of personality disorders." | 0:18:54 | 0:18:56 | |
There's a group of individuals, like Mr Costley, | 0:18:56 | 0:18:59 | |
who have significant personality pathology, | 0:18:59 | 0:19:01 | |
which may fall short of the current diagnosis of personality dis... | 0:19:01 | 0:19:04 | |
Fall short? | 0:19:04 | 0:19:05 | |
Indeed. | 0:19:13 | 0:19:14 | |
"A subcategory of high-functioning personality disorder... | 0:19:16 | 0:19:20 | |
"..remains unsubstantiated." | 0:19:21 | 0:19:23 | |
No further questions, my Lord. | 0:19:31 | 0:19:33 | |
YVONNE: Mad or bad? | 0:19:35 | 0:19:37 | |
Right now, the jury thinks you're as sane as I am. | 0:19:38 | 0:19:40 | |
They think you're a murderer. | 0:19:42 | 0:19:43 | |
HE MOUTHS | 0:19:57 | 0:19:58 | |
HE TAPS LOUDLY | 0:20:23 | 0:20:25 | |
Yeah, OK, I'll come down. | 0:20:27 | 0:20:28 | |
They were a bit worried because her waters had broken | 0:20:31 | 0:20:34 | |
and nothing was happening, so they induced her | 0:20:34 | 0:20:36 | |
and it was all fast and furious after that. | 0:20:36 | 0:20:40 | |
But Carrie's OK? The baby's OK? | 0:20:40 | 0:20:42 | |
-Who does he look like? -Oh, my nose maybe. Poor bugger! | 0:20:43 | 0:20:47 | |
HE CHUCKLES | 0:20:47 | 0:20:49 | |
You did tell Carrie that they wouldn't let me call the hospital? | 0:20:49 | 0:20:53 | |
I'll give her all your love. | 0:20:53 | 0:20:54 | |
And Sathnam. She knows you're thinking about her, love. | 0:20:54 | 0:20:58 | |
Oh, God... | 0:20:58 | 0:20:59 | |
I really wish I could have been there. | 0:21:01 | 0:21:03 | |
I know. | 0:21:03 | 0:21:04 | |
-Oh, bloody hell! -Oh, aye, come on, now... | 0:21:06 | 0:21:08 | |
Hm? | 0:21:08 | 0:21:10 | |
Home straight. Just remember everything Robert's told you | 0:21:10 | 0:21:14 | |
about making a good impression | 0:21:14 | 0:21:16 | |
and we'll get home and see that baby, yeah? | 0:21:16 | 0:21:21 | |
Yeah. | 0:21:23 | 0:21:24 | |
You will tell Carrie that I love her, won't you? | 0:21:25 | 0:21:28 | |
-What are they going to call him? -Oh, I don't think they've decided yet. | 0:21:31 | 0:21:34 | |
I'm keen on Gary Junior. | 0:21:35 | 0:21:36 | |
Von, I want to be there tomorrow. | 0:21:42 | 0:21:44 | |
For all of it. | 0:21:45 | 0:21:47 | |
When you're questioned. | 0:21:47 | 0:21:49 | |
-But we agreed. -Yeah. | 0:21:49 | 0:21:50 | |
Yeah. It's important, though. | 0:21:52 | 0:21:55 | |
I've been thinking and I'm so sorry about all the shite over Rosa. | 0:21:57 | 0:22:02 | |
No more secrets. | 0:22:03 | 0:22:05 | |
Nowhere we can't go together. | 0:22:06 | 0:22:08 | |
That's how all this happened in the first place, and I just... | 0:22:09 | 0:22:13 | |
..I just wish you'd been able to trust me with it. | 0:22:15 | 0:22:20 | |
Oh, I'm sorry. | 0:22:28 | 0:22:30 | |
OK. | 0:22:41 | 0:22:42 | |
What about me? | 0:23:05 | 0:23:07 | |
What did you think the first time you saw me? | 0:23:07 | 0:23:09 | |
You were just so... | 0:23:11 | 0:23:12 | |
..so comfortable in your own world. | 0:23:14 | 0:23:17 | |
In that committee room. | 0:23:20 | 0:23:22 | |
Just owning it. | 0:23:22 | 0:23:24 | |
I loved that. | 0:23:27 | 0:23:28 | |
SHE GIGGLES | 0:23:51 | 0:23:54 | |
LAUGHTER CONTINUES | 0:23:54 | 0:23:57 | |
All rise. | 0:24:05 | 0:24:06 | |
Dr Carmichael, can you give us some idea of the kind of work involved | 0:24:32 | 0:24:36 | |
in appearing at a House of Commons Select Committee? | 0:24:36 | 0:24:39 | |
Erm...well, it doesn't really involve any extra work, | 0:24:39 | 0:24:42 | |
apart from turning up. | 0:24:42 | 0:24:44 | |
You're called to answer questions that cover your field. | 0:24:45 | 0:24:47 | |
Your field being? | 0:24:47 | 0:24:49 | |
-The human genome and genetic engineering. -Hm... | 0:24:49 | 0:24:53 | |
And it was at the last of these occasions that you met Mark Costley? | 0:24:53 | 0:24:56 | |
That's correct. | 0:24:56 | 0:24:58 | |
-Can you tell me your impressions of him? -Erm... | 0:24:58 | 0:25:00 | |
He was pleasant. | 0:25:02 | 0:25:04 | |
Er, knowledgeable. I liked him. | 0:25:04 | 0:25:06 | |
He gave me a guided tour of the Great Hall of Westminster, | 0:25:07 | 0:25:12 | |
the Crypt Chapel. | 0:25:12 | 0:25:14 | |
We met for coffee a few times. | 0:25:15 | 0:25:17 | |
I work... I worked nearby. | 0:25:17 | 0:25:20 | |
Did you meet purely as friends? | 0:25:20 | 0:25:22 | |
Yes. | 0:25:22 | 0:25:23 | |
His niece was considering a career in science and... | 0:25:23 | 0:25:27 | |
Well, it's a bit of a hobby-horse of mine, | 0:25:28 | 0:25:30 | |
getting women and girls into science as a career, so... | 0:25:30 | 0:25:33 | |
My own daughter's a scientist. | 0:25:35 | 0:25:37 | |
So we talked about that and I gave him some advice. | 0:25:38 | 0:25:42 | |
Dr Carmichael, we now have to discuss | 0:25:42 | 0:25:44 | |
the events that have led, indirectly, | 0:25:44 | 0:25:46 | |
to you being here, | 0:25:46 | 0:25:48 | |
in a position you never would have imagined yourself to be in. | 0:25:48 | 0:25:52 | |
INAUDIBLE | 0:26:07 | 0:26:10 | |
It didn't seem real. | 0:26:18 | 0:26:20 | |
Although it was... | 0:26:22 | 0:26:24 | |
the most, most shocking thing that's ever happened to me. | 0:26:24 | 0:26:27 | |
When it was over... | 0:26:30 | 0:26:32 | |
he acted as if it was completely normal. | 0:26:32 | 0:26:36 | |
And I got in the cab with him because... | 0:26:36 | 0:26:38 | |
..I didn't know what else to do. | 0:26:40 | 0:26:41 | |
Some people will find it hard to understand | 0:26:43 | 0:26:46 | |
why you didn't even tell your husband | 0:26:46 | 0:26:48 | |
about this horrific, vicious attack. | 0:26:48 | 0:26:49 | |
I would have found it hard, before it happened to me. | 0:26:53 | 0:26:56 | |
To understand, I mean. | 0:26:56 | 0:26:58 | |
But it seemed so clear. | 0:27:00 | 0:27:02 | |
I didn't want what he did... | 0:27:07 | 0:27:10 | |
..in my life, in my home. | 0:27:11 | 0:27:15 | |
I didn't want to be sitting in my kitchen, | 0:27:20 | 0:27:22 | |
having a meal with my husband and wonder... | 0:27:22 | 0:27:25 | |
..two years later, five years later, whatever... | 0:27:28 | 0:27:32 | |
..wonder if he was thinking about it, or... | 0:27:34 | 0:27:38 | |
..or for him to raise it, or talk about it... | 0:27:41 | 0:27:44 | |
..when I wasn't ready. | 0:27:46 | 0:27:48 | |
I wasn't ready. | 0:27:48 | 0:27:50 | |
SHE SOBS | 0:27:50 | 0:27:54 | |
George Selway treated me as a collection of holes and... | 0:28:04 | 0:28:08 | |
..at least, by not telling Gary, I had control over that one thing. | 0:28:11 | 0:28:16 | |
What was your intention when you went to see Mark Costley | 0:28:21 | 0:28:26 | |
to ask his advice about George Selway? | 0:28:26 | 0:28:29 | |
I just wanted it to stop. | 0:28:29 | 0:28:31 | |
E-mailing me, texting, following me. | 0:28:32 | 0:28:35 | |
When George turned up near my house, I... | 0:28:37 | 0:28:41 | |
I was just so frightened. | 0:28:41 | 0:28:43 | |
To be clear... | 0:28:45 | 0:28:47 | |
..did you wish George Selway physical harm? | 0:28:48 | 0:28:52 | |
No. | 0:28:52 | 0:28:53 | |
Did you encourage or urge Mr Mark Costley to kill George Selway? | 0:28:53 | 0:28:58 | |
No! | 0:28:58 | 0:28:59 | |
While you were waiting, in the car, | 0:29:00 | 0:29:03 | |
were you aware of what was taking place in George Selway's flat? | 0:29:03 | 0:29:06 | |
No. | 0:29:08 | 0:29:10 | |
-JUDGE: -I suggest, given the very obvious distress of the witness, | 0:29:11 | 0:29:14 | |
we'll adjourn for a short break. | 0:29:14 | 0:29:17 | |
Dr Carmichael, I have no wish to distress you. | 0:29:37 | 0:29:40 | |
But could I ask you a few more questions | 0:29:40 | 0:29:43 | |
about the night you claim you were attacked | 0:29:43 | 0:29:45 | |
by the victim in this case? | 0:29:45 | 0:29:48 | |
Of course. | 0:29:48 | 0:29:49 | |
Now, earlier on that day, the day of the party, | 0:29:50 | 0:29:53 | |
-you were working at home? -Yes, that's right. | 0:29:53 | 0:29:56 | |
And then you got into your party dress and took the Tube into town. | 0:29:56 | 0:30:00 | |
-Is that correct? -That's correct. | 0:30:00 | 0:30:02 | |
Now, you've said you were at the party with Mr Selway for some hours, | 0:30:05 | 0:30:10 | |
drinking with him, before you went with him | 0:30:10 | 0:30:12 | |
up to his secluded office on the fifth floor, | 0:30:12 | 0:30:15 | |
an area of the building you knew | 0:30:15 | 0:30:17 | |
would be empty at that time of night. | 0:30:17 | 0:30:19 | |
Well, as I said, | 0:30:19 | 0:30:20 | |
-he mentioned something about getting some papers from his office. -Yes. | 0:30:20 | 0:30:23 | |
Just to establish, | 0:30:23 | 0:30:24 | |
when you were drinking and smoking with Mr Selway, | 0:30:24 | 0:30:27 | |
you were, for a time, seated together outside | 0:30:27 | 0:30:30 | |
-in a small courtyard in the middle of the building? -Yes. | 0:30:30 | 0:30:33 | |
I wasn't smoking. | 0:30:33 | 0:30:34 | |
You were keeping him company, then. | 0:30:36 | 0:30:38 | |
When you were seated together outside, | 0:30:39 | 0:30:42 | |
can you recall placing your hand on Mr Selway's knee? | 0:30:42 | 0:30:45 | |
No, I can't. | 0:30:46 | 0:30:48 | |
Can you recall him placing his hand on your knee? | 0:30:48 | 0:30:50 | |
He may have done, yes. | 0:30:54 | 0:30:57 | |
I think he did, just on my knee, to steady himself. | 0:30:57 | 0:31:01 | |
Er... | 0:31:03 | 0:31:04 | |
We were all laughing, in a group. | 0:31:04 | 0:31:08 | |
It wasn't just the two of us and... | 0:31:08 | 0:31:11 | |
I was a bit unsteady and so was he, and... | 0:31:11 | 0:31:13 | |
..I put my hand on his knee, just to steady myself. | 0:31:15 | 0:31:18 | |
So you put your hand on his knee? | 0:31:18 | 0:31:20 | |
Or he did on mine. He... | 0:31:24 | 0:31:26 | |
He was filling up my glass. It could have been both. | 0:31:26 | 0:31:29 | |
You were flirting, weren't you? | 0:31:30 | 0:31:32 | |
No, I wouldn't say that. | 0:31:32 | 0:31:34 | |
We were talking, joking, in a group of people. | 0:31:34 | 0:31:38 | |
Well, let's not get into a detailed discussion | 0:31:38 | 0:31:40 | |
on the definition of flirting, Dr Carmichael. | 0:31:40 | 0:31:44 | |
Did you, or did you not, tell George Selway you were promiscuous? | 0:31:44 | 0:31:48 | |
No! Absolutely not! | 0:31:48 | 0:31:49 | |
-Well, you seem very certain about that. -I am. | 0:31:49 | 0:31:52 | |
And if anybody thinks they heard me say that, they're mistaken. | 0:31:52 | 0:31:55 | |
Or drunk. There was a lot of drinking going on that night. | 0:31:55 | 0:31:58 | |
Yes, I'm not talking about the party. | 0:31:58 | 0:32:00 | |
Do you remember the occasion you spent two days with George Selway, | 0:32:00 | 0:32:03 | |
-a month or so before he was killed? -You're talking about | 0:32:03 | 0:32:05 | |
when we interviewed for the junior research fellowship. | 0:32:05 | 0:32:07 | |
-Of course I remember. -Good. | 0:32:07 | 0:32:09 | |
Then you might also remember telling George Selway, | 0:32:09 | 0:32:11 | |
in front of a room full of people, you were promiscuous. | 0:32:11 | 0:32:15 | |
No. | 0:32:16 | 0:32:18 | |
Absolutely not. I said no such thing. | 0:32:19 | 0:32:21 | |
Really? | 0:32:21 | 0:32:23 | |
Did you or did you not describe yourself as "really easy"? | 0:32:23 | 0:32:27 | |
-That's ridiculous! -Oh, so you do remember? | 0:32:30 | 0:32:32 | |
"I like to pretend I'm classy, but I'm really easy." | 0:32:32 | 0:32:35 | |
I... I was talking about the coffee machine! | 0:32:35 | 0:32:38 | |
He'd brought us some coffees. | 0:32:38 | 0:32:39 | |
I'm not asking you for the context of the comment, Dr Carmichael. | 0:32:39 | 0:32:42 | |
I'm sure you were bantering away with Mr Selway | 0:32:42 | 0:32:44 | |
on all manner of subjects. | 0:32:44 | 0:32:45 | |
Just please answer the question - "really easy", | 0:32:45 | 0:32:47 | |
-did you use that exact phrase? -That is ludicrous. | 0:32:47 | 0:32:50 | |
-You can take anything out of context. -Yes or no? | 0:32:50 | 0:32:52 | |
You're trying to create a false impression | 0:32:52 | 0:32:54 | |
-of the kind of relationship that we had. -Yes or no? | 0:32:54 | 0:32:56 | |
Not in the way that you mean! | 0:32:56 | 0:32:58 | |
This is why... | 0:33:09 | 0:33:10 | |
This is why I didn't want to bring this to court in the first place. | 0:33:12 | 0:33:14 | |
It's not the only reason, is it, Dr Carmichael? | 0:33:26 | 0:33:28 | |
Why didn't you report the alleged rape by George Selway? | 0:33:35 | 0:33:38 | |
Often these cases are conducted as if... | 0:33:40 | 0:33:43 | |
the victim has committed a crime. | 0:33:43 | 0:33:45 | |
And I felt that I'd been through enough. | 0:33:46 | 0:33:48 | |
Well, this isn't a rape trial. | 0:33:48 | 0:33:50 | |
And you have been charged with a crime, | 0:33:50 | 0:33:51 | |
the most serious crime there is. | 0:33:51 | 0:33:53 | |
Now, forgive me, you said it was eight years | 0:33:53 | 0:33:55 | |
you worked for the Beaufort Institute. | 0:33:55 | 0:33:58 | |
Erm... | 0:33:58 | 0:33:59 | |
Full time, yes. And more recently part time. | 0:33:59 | 0:34:03 | |
Of course. | 0:34:03 | 0:34:05 | |
And during those eight years, you commuted every day? | 0:34:05 | 0:34:08 | |
The Tube to St James's and then a walk? | 0:34:08 | 0:34:10 | |
Yes. | 0:34:11 | 0:34:12 | |
And lunch hours, coffee breaks, | 0:34:14 | 0:34:16 | |
plenty of places to eat around there. | 0:34:16 | 0:34:19 | |
-Pubs after work, so on. -My Lord, really! | 0:34:19 | 0:34:22 | |
-Forgive me, my Lord, I am getting there. -Then do, please, Ms Bonnard. | 0:34:22 | 0:34:26 | |
Dr Carmichael, in your professional capacity, | 0:34:28 | 0:34:31 | |
you have been working in or visiting the Borough of Westminster | 0:34:31 | 0:34:34 | |
for, what, around 12 years? Longer? | 0:34:34 | 0:34:37 | |
Erm... | 0:34:37 | 0:34:38 | |
longer, probably. | 0:34:38 | 0:34:39 | |
So it's fair to say you are very familiar with the area. | 0:34:39 | 0:34:44 | |
What with all the commuting and lunch hours, walking, so on? | 0:34:44 | 0:34:48 | |
It... | 0:34:49 | 0:34:51 | |
Yes. | 0:34:51 | 0:34:52 | |
You know it intimately... | 0:34:54 | 0:34:55 | |
..this little corner of St James. | 0:34:57 | 0:34:59 | |
The highways and byways. | 0:35:01 | 0:35:03 | |
The shops and cafes. | 0:35:04 | 0:35:06 | |
The side streets. | 0:35:11 | 0:35:12 | |
The back alleyways. | 0:35:12 | 0:35:14 | |
You're familiar, Dr Carmichael... | 0:35:26 | 0:35:30 | |
with a small alleyway called Apple Tree Yard? | 0:35:30 | 0:35:33 | |
Apple Tree Yard... | 0:35:46 | 0:35:48 | |
..is the alleyway in the Borough of Westminster, | 0:35:49 | 0:35:53 | |
St James to be precise, | 0:35:53 | 0:35:56 | |
where you had intercourse with your lover, Mark Costley, | 0:35:56 | 0:36:00 | |
in a public street, | 0:36:00 | 0:36:01 | |
quite quickly, I imagine, during rush hour, standing up in a doorway. | 0:36:01 | 0:36:05 | |
Isn't that the case, Dr Carmichael? | 0:36:05 | 0:36:07 | |
It... | 0:36:17 | 0:36:18 | |
It wasn't rush hour. | 0:36:20 | 0:36:21 | |
Well, I apologise for any inaccuracy as to timings, | 0:36:23 | 0:36:26 | |
but you will forgive me for doubting the absolute credibility | 0:36:26 | 0:36:29 | |
of any account you're willing to give this court. | 0:36:29 | 0:36:32 | |
You know, you are facing a charge of murder. | 0:36:32 | 0:36:35 | |
Don't you think it's time you started telling the truth? | 0:36:35 | 0:36:38 | |
You've lied, haven't you? | 0:36:38 | 0:36:40 | |
You have lied to your husband | 0:36:41 | 0:36:43 | |
and you've lied to the police | 0:36:43 | 0:36:45 | |
and you have lied to this court! Well, haven't you? | 0:36:45 | 0:36:48 | |
Yes. | 0:36:57 | 0:36:59 | |
I beg your pardon? | 0:37:02 | 0:37:04 | |
Yes. | 0:37:06 | 0:37:07 | |
Did you ask my client to kill George Selway? | 0:37:15 | 0:37:18 | |
No. | 0:37:18 | 0:37:19 | |
-Are you telling the truth? -Yes! | 0:37:19 | 0:37:22 | |
Did you tell him you were raped, Dr Carmichael? | 0:37:22 | 0:37:25 | |
I said... Yes. | 0:37:25 | 0:37:27 | |
-And were you raped? Is that the truth? -Yes! Yes! | 0:37:27 | 0:37:29 | |
Yes! | 0:37:29 | 0:37:30 | |
As you went to the party that night... | 0:37:55 | 0:37:58 | |
..after you had had sex with my client... | 0:38:01 | 0:38:04 | |
..were you wearing underwear? | 0:38:10 | 0:38:12 | |
Please, at least tell me that the sex was good. | 0:38:37 | 0:38:39 | |
Why? | 0:38:49 | 0:38:50 | |
Why with someone like that? | 0:38:51 | 0:38:53 | |
He didn't seem... the way he sounds in court. He... | 0:38:54 | 0:38:57 | |
He made me feel... | 0:38:59 | 0:39:01 | |
-Gary wants to talk to you... -I can't. -..so much. -I can't. | 0:39:02 | 0:39:06 | |
No. No, it would just finish me off. | 0:39:06 | 0:39:09 | |
Think about it. | 0:39:10 | 0:39:12 | |
Isn't it going to do more damage this way? | 0:39:13 | 0:39:15 | |
Damage? | 0:39:15 | 0:39:17 | |
Damage? Suse, the damage is done. | 0:39:17 | 0:39:19 | |
You saw the jury's faces. I'm going to prison. | 0:39:19 | 0:39:22 | |
-You don't know that. -Yes, I do. | 0:39:22 | 0:39:24 | |
-The trial isn't over yet. -Yes, it is. It is. | 0:39:24 | 0:39:26 | |
It is for me. | 0:39:26 | 0:39:27 | |
You know, the one thing that Gary's always said that he couldn't bear... | 0:39:33 | 0:39:36 | |
..is humiliation. | 0:39:38 | 0:39:39 | |
Didn't you think? | 0:39:39 | 0:39:40 | |
What? | 0:39:42 | 0:39:43 | |
SHE SIGHS | 0:39:43 | 0:39:44 | |
If you were having this thing with Mark Costley, then... | 0:39:44 | 0:39:48 | |
..surely your marriage was over anyway? | 0:39:50 | 0:39:53 | |
Do you really think that it's that cut and dried? | 0:39:53 | 0:39:56 | |
God, Suse, I'd expect that from Carrie, but you, of all people... | 0:39:56 | 0:39:59 | |
I am trying to understand. | 0:39:59 | 0:40:01 | |
You should know that a marriage is not what it seems from the outside. | 0:40:01 | 0:40:05 | |
What, Jay? Well, Jay's a bit different from Gary. | 0:40:06 | 0:40:09 | |
Well, you've always held Gary up as some kind of shining star. | 0:40:09 | 0:40:12 | |
Because he is a good man! | 0:40:12 | 0:40:14 | |
Yes, he is. | 0:40:22 | 0:40:24 | |
Of course he is. | 0:40:25 | 0:40:27 | |
When I started my degree... | 0:40:36 | 0:40:38 | |
..I was going to dedicate my life to science. | 0:40:40 | 0:40:43 | |
And then... | 0:40:45 | 0:40:46 | |
..the first week of the first term, there he was. | 0:40:48 | 0:40:51 | |
So specific. | 0:40:51 | 0:40:53 | |
There, in the lab... | 0:40:55 | 0:40:57 | |
..being so bloody certain about everything. | 0:40:58 | 0:41:02 | |
With his shirt tucked in. | 0:41:03 | 0:41:05 | |
And his thousand-yard stare. | 0:41:07 | 0:41:08 | |
30 years, nearly. | 0:41:11 | 0:41:13 | |
Don't you think that's worth fighting for? | 0:41:16 | 0:41:19 | |
Ladies and gentlemen, | 0:42:01 | 0:42:03 | |
the dramatic revelations of the last days | 0:42:03 | 0:42:05 | |
have served only to strengthen the prosecution's case, | 0:42:05 | 0:42:08 | |
that it is beyond reasonable doubt | 0:42:08 | 0:42:11 | |
that Mark Costley and Yvonne Carmichael are both guilty | 0:42:11 | 0:42:14 | |
of the murder of George Selway. | 0:42:14 | 0:42:16 | |
Whose idea was it to drive to Selway's flat that day? | 0:42:16 | 0:42:19 | |
Yvonne Carmichael has admitted it was her idea. | 0:42:21 | 0:42:24 | |
Tragically... | 0:42:24 | 0:42:26 | |
Mr Costley's already marked tendencies as a fantasist | 0:42:26 | 0:42:29 | |
and his inability to tell the difference | 0:42:29 | 0:42:32 | |
between reality and a story of his own invention | 0:42:32 | 0:42:35 | |
found its flashpoint at that unbearable moment | 0:42:35 | 0:42:38 | |
when he confronted the man he believed to have raped his lover. | 0:42:38 | 0:42:42 | |
Yvonne Carmichael had suffered a brutal and degrading rape | 0:42:43 | 0:42:48 | |
at the hands of George Selway, | 0:42:48 | 0:42:50 | |
who then added to this quite devastating trauma by stalking her. | 0:42:50 | 0:42:56 | |
She just wanted it to stop. | 0:42:56 | 0:42:58 | |
There is no evidence that she wanted him dead. | 0:42:58 | 0:43:01 | |
There's no evidence that she asked for it. | 0:43:01 | 0:43:04 | |
Mark Costley was in his own world | 0:43:04 | 0:43:06 | |
when he entered George Selway's flat, | 0:43:06 | 0:43:08 | |
on a mission of his own making. | 0:43:08 | 0:43:10 | |
It comes down to this... | 0:43:12 | 0:43:14 | |
Does having an affair with Mark Costley, | 0:43:14 | 0:43:16 | |
keeping it secret, | 0:43:16 | 0:43:18 | |
make Dr Carmichael a murderer? | 0:43:18 | 0:43:21 | |
Not... | 0:43:22 | 0:43:23 | |
does it make her unsavoury, inappropriate? | 0:43:23 | 0:43:26 | |
Your private judgment is your own concern. | 0:43:26 | 0:43:29 | |
Does it make her...a murderer? | 0:43:31 | 0:43:34 | |
It's time. | 0:43:48 | 0:43:50 | |
DOOR BUZZER SOUNDS | 0:43:54 | 0:43:56 | |
YVONNE: Courts aren't about the truth. | 0:44:02 | 0:44:05 | |
They're about who tells the best story. | 0:44:05 | 0:44:07 | |
You know all about that. | 0:44:12 | 0:44:15 | |
You're the expert. | 0:44:15 | 0:44:16 | |
You caught me so easily. | 0:44:24 | 0:44:27 | |
But then, I think now... | 0:44:27 | 0:44:30 | |
I was waiting to be caught. | 0:44:30 | 0:44:32 | |
Madam Foreperson, | 0:44:58 | 0:44:59 | |
has the jury reached verdicts upon which you are all agreed? | 0:44:59 | 0:45:03 | |
Yes. | 0:45:03 | 0:45:05 | |
Would the defendants please stand? | 0:45:06 | 0:45:08 | |
Do you find the defendant Mark Liam Costley | 0:45:14 | 0:45:18 | |
guilty or not guilty of the murder of George Selway? | 0:45:18 | 0:45:22 | |
We find the defendant not guilty. | 0:45:23 | 0:45:26 | |
Do you find the defendant Yvonne Carmichael | 0:45:31 | 0:45:34 | |
guilty or not guilty of the murder of George Selway? | 0:45:34 | 0:45:38 | |
Not guilty. | 0:45:40 | 0:45:41 | |
Upon count two of this indictment, | 0:45:44 | 0:45:47 | |
do you find the defendant Mark Liam Costley | 0:45:47 | 0:45:50 | |
guilty or not guilty of manslaughter? | 0:45:50 | 0:45:53 | |
Guilty. | 0:45:55 | 0:45:56 | |
Do you find the defendant Yvonne Carmichael | 0:46:02 | 0:46:05 | |
guilty or not guilty of manslaughter? | 0:46:05 | 0:46:07 | |
We find the defendant... | 0:46:10 | 0:46:11 | |
..not guilty. | 0:46:18 | 0:46:20 | |
Congratulations. | 0:47:18 | 0:47:20 | |
YVONNE: Dear X... | 0:48:25 | 0:48:26 | |
Dear Mark... | 0:48:28 | 0:48:29 | |
..with good behaviour and the all clear from your psychiatrist, | 0:48:30 | 0:48:34 | |
you'll be free in five years. | 0:48:34 | 0:48:36 | |
They found me guilty of perjury. | 0:48:41 | 0:48:44 | |
Suspended sentence. | 0:48:44 | 0:48:46 | |
Sounds about right - "suspended." | 0:48:47 | 0:48:50 | |
Hanging above me, | 0:48:51 | 0:48:53 | |
a sword that could fall on my neck at any time. | 0:48:53 | 0:48:56 | |
And of course... | 0:48:58 | 0:48:59 | |
my good behaviour has to last a lifetime. | 0:48:59 | 0:49:01 | |
When do you think Carrie will be ready to see me? | 0:49:18 | 0:49:21 | |
I think that's best discussed between you and her, don't you? | 0:49:23 | 0:49:26 | |
You can do no wrong in her eyes, you know that. | 0:49:27 | 0:49:29 | |
Yeah, well, we're all on a learning curve, aren't we? | 0:49:30 | 0:49:34 | |
Gary... | 0:49:34 | 0:49:35 | |
Does she know about you and Rosa? | 0:49:37 | 0:49:39 | |
There's nothing to tell any more, is there? So, no point. | 0:49:40 | 0:49:43 | |
Surely it's only fair that she knows something about... | 0:49:43 | 0:49:46 | |
what was going on with you and us? | 0:49:46 | 0:49:49 | |
Oh, you really want to go there, do you? | 0:49:49 | 0:49:51 | |
Jesus Christ... | 0:49:52 | 0:49:54 | |
Fairness? | 0:49:54 | 0:49:56 | |
Transparency? | 0:49:56 | 0:49:58 | |
There were so many opportunities to tell me. | 0:50:00 | 0:50:03 | |
So many points. | 0:50:03 | 0:50:05 | |
The rape. | 0:50:06 | 0:50:08 | |
Him. | 0:50:09 | 0:50:10 | |
-I would have understood. -I know you would. | 0:50:14 | 0:50:16 | |
So why? Because you had to win, | 0:50:16 | 0:50:18 | |
you had to be the best at everything, even marriage? | 0:50:18 | 0:50:21 | |
Could you just not bear the thought | 0:50:21 | 0:50:22 | |
of not having something to hold against me for once? | 0:50:22 | 0:50:25 | |
That we both might have fucked up, even-stevens? | 0:50:25 | 0:50:27 | |
-Is that what you think? -Yes, that's what I think! | 0:50:27 | 0:50:30 | |
I think you think I've been the bad one. | 0:50:31 | 0:50:35 | |
That's how it's worked! | 0:50:35 | 0:50:37 | |
I'm sorry. | 0:51:03 | 0:51:04 | |
I am. | 0:51:05 | 0:51:06 | |
And I'll say it every day, for as long as it takes. | 0:51:08 | 0:51:12 | |
DRILLING | 0:51:36 | 0:51:38 | |
Thank you for agreeing to see me. | 0:52:07 | 0:52:09 | |
Yvonne... | 0:52:17 | 0:52:19 | |
in court... | 0:52:19 | 0:52:20 | |
when I, erm... | 0:52:20 | 0:52:22 | |
..I told my barrister about us... | 0:52:23 | 0:52:26 | |
..she just twisted everything. | 0:52:27 | 0:52:30 | |
I'm so sorry. | 0:52:32 | 0:52:33 | |
I think I understand. | 0:52:38 | 0:52:40 | |
You panicked. | 0:52:41 | 0:52:43 | |
Is...that what happened with George? | 0:52:45 | 0:52:48 | |
I know you didn't mean to kill him. | 0:52:50 | 0:52:52 | |
You wouldn't have let me drive you to his house... | 0:52:52 | 0:52:55 | |
..if you'd meant to kill him. | 0:52:57 | 0:52:59 | |
I just wanted to teach him a lesson. | 0:52:59 | 0:53:01 | |
For you. | 0:53:02 | 0:53:03 | |
I wanted you to feel safe. | 0:53:05 | 0:53:07 | |
I lied to you. | 0:53:17 | 0:53:19 | |
Brilliant geneticist, one of the country's leading scientists... | 0:53:26 | 0:53:29 | |
I'm not. | 0:53:29 | 0:53:30 | |
I haven't produced an original piece of work for years. | 0:53:31 | 0:53:35 | |
I was never anybody important. | 0:53:37 | 0:53:40 | |
You made me feel important. | 0:53:44 | 0:53:46 | |
I don't know what you want me to say. | 0:53:50 | 0:53:53 | |
I'm sorry. | 0:53:54 | 0:53:56 | |
Mark... | 0:53:59 | 0:54:01 | |
SHE SIGHS HEAVILY | 0:54:03 | 0:54:05 | |
The feelings... | 0:54:06 | 0:54:08 | |
..they were real. | 0:54:10 | 0:54:11 | |
Mine were, at least. | 0:54:13 | 0:54:15 | |
And mine, too. | 0:54:15 | 0:54:17 | |
That's why I told her about us. | 0:54:19 | 0:54:22 | |
Because how else would anyone know? | 0:54:22 | 0:54:24 | |
How would they know? | 0:54:26 | 0:54:28 | |
That it had been...real. | 0:54:31 | 0:54:34 | |
It was just everything else that wasn't. | 0:54:42 | 0:54:45 | |
YVONNE: If relationships are stories, | 0:54:58 | 0:55:02 | |
there is no happy ending for ours. | 0:55:02 | 0:55:04 | |
But life, as they say, goes on. | 0:55:06 | 0:55:10 | |
BABY GURGLES | 0:55:23 | 0:55:25 | |
-MARK: -Yvonne... | 0:55:50 | 0:55:52 | |
What you said to me in the flat... | 0:55:58 | 0:56:00 | |
The safe house. | 0:56:02 | 0:56:04 | |
I never told them. | 0:56:06 | 0:56:07 | |
I didn't. | 0:56:11 | 0:56:12 | |
So what do you want? | 0:56:21 | 0:56:23 | |
I want you to kill him. | 0:56:25 | 0:56:27 | |
SHE LAUGHS | 0:56:27 | 0:56:30 | |
I want you to smash his fucking face in. | 0:56:31 | 0:56:34 | |
People can say anything. | 0:56:48 | 0:56:50 | |
You really can't tell the difference, can you? | 0:56:59 | 0:57:01 |