Episode 3 Apple Tree Yard


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Transcript


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"Dear X, you saw me. I really think you did. And I saw you."

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This programme contains some strong language and some scenes which some viewers may find upsetting

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Come on, George, don't be silly... Get off me!

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Who was he?

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George Selway. He was at the party.

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He works at the university.

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Do you want me to get some people to take a statement?

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I can't make a statement, you know I can't.

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What about your husband? Are you going to tell him?

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You haven't been right for weeks.

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'Is this my fault?'

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Rosa came with me to the conference.

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So you are sleeping with her?

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'It's George Selway. He won't leave me alone.'

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Wait, hang on, are you saying he's stalking you now?

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'He's been texting me. A few weeks ago he sent me flowers!

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'He just turned up in the shop near my house.'

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He knows about us.

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I know you're not allowed to talk about what you do.

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Can't you warn him off for me?

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What are you going to say to him?

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SHE GASPS

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You were in there for ages. What happened?

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Drive. Now, now!

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Just go! Go, go, go!

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-What is it?

-Just go! Go, go, go!

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What's wrong? What happened?

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What did he say?

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No, listen. Everything's under control.

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Just... If it comes to it. IF it comes to it,

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just stick to the same story as with Kevin, right?

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We met through work. Erm, you...

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We talked about my niece, and you asked my advice,

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erm...because of my contacts in security.

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That's it. End of story.

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I'll say exactly the same thing.

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Do we need to call the police?

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No, just... Trust me, Yvonne.

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Trust me.

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HE PANTS

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So we, erm... We'd better not be in touch for a while.

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Er...just in case, give me your phone... Give it to me.

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Everything's going to be OK. Right, just stick to the story.

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-OK.

-All right?

-Yeah.

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It'll be fine.

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I'll see you in Apple Tree Yard.

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Mark!

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I'm...erm...going out for a bit.

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Right.

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Are we still on for tonight?

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Sathnam's birthday. Von, are you all right?

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Oh, God, yeah... I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Um...hormone brain.

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Yes, I've booked a table. "All you can eat."

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Great.

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Remind me what we've got him again.

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That speaker he wanted.

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It's the same one we've got in the kitchen.

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Oh, yes, yes. Excellent...

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Excellent.

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You should know this... thing with Rosa.

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Whatever it is, it's not serious.

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Right.

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Are you sure she feels the same way?

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She knows how I feel about you, I've made it very clear...

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Right.

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I'm sorry, Von.

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I really am.

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We've been through worse, hm?

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With Adam.

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Get a room, you two!

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-Hey!

-Hey, how you doing?

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Happy birthday.

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Hey, you! I didn't know you were coming!

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I'm stealing the limelight from Sathnam.

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-Good to see you.

-You, too.

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He is much too popular in this family for my liking!

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Last time you were kipping on our sofa.

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Yvonne Carmichael?

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-Yes.

-I'm DI Cleveland, West Thames Murder Investigation Unit.

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This is my colleague, DS Brown.

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I'm arresting you on suspicion of the murder of George Selway.

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Murder?

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Hang on, hang on, there must be something wrong here...

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All right, all right.

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It's just a mistake. Grab your bag, grab your stuff, grab your stuff.

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Get your coat. Come on.

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Tell us what you did this morning, Yvonne.

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Erm, I took some clothes to the recycling depot.

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Alone?

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Yes.

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Then what?

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Um... Then I went for a drive.

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You just fancied a drive?

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That's right. Af...after I'd done the recycling.

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Where?

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Just around. I...I don't remember.

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Around? I see. Was anyone in the car with you?

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No.

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You do know we've arrested Mark Costley?

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Were you there when Mark Costley beat and kicked George Selway

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to death, Yvonne?

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No... No.

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It's very easy for us to check all this out, you know.

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Who was in the car with you, where you were...

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that's even before we've had a proper chat with Costley.

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God knows what he'll have to say for himself, eh?

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So, are you telling me that's not you...in your car?

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What's your relationship to Mark Costley, Yvonne?

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He's a friend.

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What kind of friend?

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Just a friend. I... I haven't known him very long.

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Well, would you describe him as a good friend?

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He's become quite a good friend, yes.

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A lover?

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No.

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I... I met him when I was working at the House of Commons.

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Um... He asked my advice about a niece of his,

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who was considering a career in science.

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So why was he in your car, going to George Selway's house?

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Since Mark worked in security, I asked him for advice.

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He agreed to help me out.

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To warn George Selway off.

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Why would you want him to do that?

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George Selway attacked me.

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So, you and Mark Costley were an item. You were sleeping together.

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No, I've told you.

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You were having an affair and he went nuts when

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he found out about you and George, isn't that right?

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There was no "me and George".

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I told you, George Selway attacked me and then he started stalking me.

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I went to Mark Costley because of his background in security

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and asked for his advice.

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That's not what he told us.

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Just stick to the story.

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Trust me.

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We weren't sleeping together.

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And if he'd told you we were,

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I think you'd be confronting me with details.

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'Just for that moment I doubted you...

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'Just for that split second. Forgive me, my love.'

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Jaspreet Dhillon - Dhillon, Johnson & Waterford. You can call me Jas.

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I can tell you, your husband is an extremely persistent man.

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Gary contacted you?

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Yeah, and not just the once, either. Now - good news.

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We've started your bail application.

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How long's that going to take?

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That's the less good news.

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Magistrate's hearing first, probably a couple of nights in Holloway,

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then bail hearing proper...

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-Holloway?

-It really should just be for a night or two.

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I'm fairly confident the bail hearing will go our way.

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We'll get you home if we possibly can.

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Oh, thank God.

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Sorry.

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Would you like some water?

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They keep talking about murder, but I...

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I wasn't even in the house.

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Surely forensics will tell them that.

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It doesn't matter, Yvonne.

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The prosecution will argue

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that you and Costley cooked up the idea to kill Selway together.

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That you drove the car. The getaway car, effectively.

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That is not what happened! I didn't even know he was dead.

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I swear I didn't.

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The worst I thought was...Mark might have knocked him about a bit.

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Well, we'll establish all that when your case comes to court.

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For the moment, let's focus on bail, yeah?

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I'm just about persuaded to give bail in the particular

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circumstances of this case, despite the seriousness of the charge,

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due to the defendant's previous excellent character

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and everything else that's been said.

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You're to reside at your normal address

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and you must surrender your passport

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and pay into court a security in the sum of £100,000.

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I understand it's all in hand, my lady.

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You're to report to your local police station on Mondays,

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Wednesdays and Saturdays between 10am and 2pm.

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You will also abide by a curfew between the hours of 8pm and 8am.

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Above all, Dr Carmichael, you are not to contact,

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directly or indirectly,

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Mark Liam Costley or any of the prosecution witnesses.

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Is that clear?

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Yes, my lady. Thank you.

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How on earth did you get hold of 100 grand?

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Cashed in those bonds.

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And Ray and Tina have come up trumps, actually.

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Oh, God, you didn't ask them, did you?

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Well, what else could I do? It's all right.

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We're re-mortgaging, and...Ray and Tina just stepped in to cover

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it while the paperwork's done.

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They were happy to help, Von.

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People have been amazing.

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Adam?

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He's been a bit knocked for six... But fine.

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I've talked to him quite a lot.

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What about Carrie?

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Hey...

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This is lovely. Thank you.

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-It's delicious.

-Mm.

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Why didn't you go to the police about the rape?

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Carrie, love...

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Maybe your mum's not ready to talk about that

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right at the moment, darling.

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I haven't had a chance to talk to Dad about it properly yet.

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I had my reasons.

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But, um... I mean, didn't you feel a responsibility to the other

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women this man was working with, to come forward

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if he was a threat to them?

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And this other man, what's his name?

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-Mark Costley.

-Just roping in some random weirdo, what was that about?

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He's not a weirdo.

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But you didn't even know him properly, what were you thinking?

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I don't know! I don't know.

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Carrie...I wasn't thinking about my responsibilities.

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I could barely put one foot in front of the other.

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And sometimes women aren't served brilliantly by the legal system,

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whatever they say about new approaches and the caring

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face of the force.

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I just couldn't face it.

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I didn't have the courage.

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I'm just trying to understand.

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I'm going to go and have a bath.

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Fred. Fred. Everything will be all right.

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For God's sake, Dad, I'm not ten years old any more.

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What if it isn't?

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I just don't get why you went to him - Costley.

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I knew that if I told you what had happened...

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..you'd want me to go to the police.

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When did it happen?

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It was that party at Central. Jonathan's leaving do.

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He was a senior researcher there.

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We did external exams and panels together.

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You've probably heard me mention him.

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Oh, Jesus...

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Von... I mean, the police, I understand what you

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were saying to Carrie, but surely we could have spoken about it.

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At first, I didn't want the rest of my life to be contaminated

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by what he did.

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As long as I didn't bring it into the house then I could

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pretend it never happened.

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And then I took advice.

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From Costley.

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No, from a police officer that he put me in touch with...

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They see it all the time.

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Women like me who don't want to have their lives dragged through

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the courts.

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Yeah, thank God we're not going to be dragged through the courts(!)

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Thank God you spared us from that.

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I'm sorry.

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It's all gone so wrong.

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Oh, my God, he's dead! He's actually dead!

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Sh, sh...

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It's not your fault. None of this is your fault.

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OK?

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That's not true, Gary.

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It isn't.

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You weren't even there when it happened. Were you?

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No. No.

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George Selway raped you. It all goes from there.

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And we are going to do everything...

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..everything we can, OK?

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Apparently lolly sticks are good.

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For scratching.

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Stylish...

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We've had word from Mark Costley's team about his plea.

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Looks like he's going for diminished responsibility.

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He's saying he's not guilty of murder.

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Well, good, because he isn't. He couldn't be.

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Do you know that?

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Well, it makes no sense. Why not self-defence?

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Yvonne, I have to say, Mark Costley's defence is

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a matter for him and his solicitors.

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My job is to defend you

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But, if we're being charged together...

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Costley's effectively pleading guilty to manslaughter by

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going for diminished responsibility as his defence.

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So we'll both be charged with Selway's manslaughter?

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No. If they accept Costley's plea, and that's by no means guaranteed,

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they still can come after you for murder

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because your defences are entirely separate.

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But it's not all doom and gloom... At the very least, if they

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accept diminished responsibility, it makes our lives easier.

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You're saying you had

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no idea Costley was going to kill George Selway and Costley is

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admitting that he acted on a reckless impulse of his own.

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'You...

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'you are my knight in shining armour.

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'You've admitted you acted alone. Keeping me safe.

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'Again.'

0:23:430:23:45

DOOR OPENS DOWNSTAIRS

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Hey, Dad...

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Hey, hello, love! How are you?

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Good... You?

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Carrie's here, love!

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Sathnam's going to go part-time after the baby's born.

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It's his baby, too.

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Of course it is! That's great. No, that's great.

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I'm a bit jealous, actually.

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Well, your dad did a lot for the two of you when you were babies

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but it was always basically assumed that you were my territory.

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Well, didn't you talk it over before you got pregnant?

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We've never really been good at that. Talking.

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That's not true!

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Sathnam always says he wishes his parents got on half as well

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as you and Dad.

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I'm not saying we don't get on.

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Oh... I'm so sorry, all of this is such terrible timing for you.

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I mean, no timing would be good, but this is godawful.

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Ajay, Sathnam's brother,

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he has this friend from uni, trained as a barrister...

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We've got a barrister.

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Well, he does consultancy now.

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Sort of PR...helping people to make a good impression in court.

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Dad asked me to get his number.

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The two of you have discussed it?

0:25:460:25:48

You really think that I need help, making a good impression?

0:25:500:25:53

Well, don't you? Er, shall I send it to you, or Dad?

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The thing to remember is, I'm innocent.

0:25:570:26:00

Of course you are. I know you are, of course you are.

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I'm just...sending it to Dad, OK?

0:26:050:26:07

CAR HORN

0:26:200:26:22

-He seems quite young!

-Yeah?

0:26:240:26:27

Well, he would be.

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PHONE ALERT

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Just remember, love, he's costing a fortune.

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Don't get all competitive with him. Von?

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DOORBELL RINGS

0:26:490:26:51

Er...competitive?

0:26:530:26:55

Let him do his job.

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Let him help you, that's what he's here for.

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Yeah.

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-Hi. Laurence?

-Yeah.

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Hi, I'm Gary, I'm Yvonne's husband.

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So, Yvonne - are you guilty?

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No, Laurence, I am not.

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Cool! That's what we want to see in court.

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Firm, but polite, no hint of doubt.

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First impressions are incredibly important.

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Aren't they just?

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So, on that subject, is there anything Yvonne should be

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thinking of, in court?

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The jury, always. Little tip.

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When you're in the witness box, point your feet towards the jury.

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Then you'll automatically address your answers towards them.

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It's all about making a connection.

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You might want to jot this down.

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Anything, erm, in particular she should be wearing?

0:27:550:27:58

Well, we want the jury to see your feminine side.

0:27:580:28:02

Oh, Jesus. Ribbons? Lace?

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Perhaps a blouse with a bit of embellishment.

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Nothing too low-cut, obviously,

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something that's appropriate to your, er, age.

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Under a suit.

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But not too flash or designer - we don't want people thinking

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you need taking down a peg or two.

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People only judge you 30% on what you say -

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70% is how you look.

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None of this is me, you understand.

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The women, particularly, can be very hard on other women.

0:28:320:28:36

Talking of... I...I don't know if the prosecuting counsel will be

0:28:360:28:39

a man or a woman.

0:28:390:28:40

But if it is a woman, the jury will be more likely to think

0:28:400:28:43

you're guilty during cross-examination about the rape.

0:28:430:28:46

Ah, you know - "This nice lady barrister wouldn't be taking this on

0:28:460:28:49

"if she really thought this man had done something terrible."

0:28:490:28:52

I also imagine this strategy won't have escaped

0:28:520:28:55

Mr...Costley's defence team.

0:28:550:28:59

He may well have a female silk.

0:28:590:29:01

You do know how violent the rape was?

0:29:010:29:04

Yes, I've got the...details.

0:29:040:29:08

I'm sure your solicitor has been through this with you, Yvonne,

0:29:100:29:14

but, er...legally speaking, I'm afraid it does make

0:29:140:29:17

your case rather worse.

0:29:170:29:18

An attack of this severity gives you such

0:29:200:29:22

a strong reason for killing Selway.

0:29:220:29:24

So, basically everything that should be in Yvonne's favour is

0:29:240:29:29

going to go against her...

0:29:290:29:32

Exactly.

0:29:320:29:33

Of course, one thing the rape

0:29:370:29:39

doesn't explain is why Mark Costley killed Selway.

0:29:390:29:43

Why did your co-defendant act as he did?

0:29:460:29:49

He was warning off George Selway as a favour to me.

0:29:490:29:53

He has a background in security.

0:29:540:29:56

And it must have gone wrong in some terrible, terrible, way.

0:29:570:30:00

Quite a favour. You hadn't known each other that long, had you?

0:30:020:30:06

A few months.

0:30:080:30:10

Mmm.

0:30:100:30:11

The prosecution could try to claim

0:30:120:30:15

you were lying about the whole thing,

0:30:150:30:17

that you and Selway had consensual sex and you were

0:30:170:30:20

spinning Costley a yarn to get him into trouble.

0:30:200:30:23

Why the hell would Yvonne do that unless she was a lunatic?

0:30:230:30:27

Ah, who knows?

0:30:270:30:28

You were annoyed with Selway because he didn't call you afterwards,

0:30:280:30:31

de-da, de-da, the usual.

0:30:310:30:33

The usual?

0:30:330:30:34

I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

0:30:340:30:36

Why didn't you report the rape in the first case,

0:30:360:30:38

if there was evidence? It's a big problem.

0:30:380:30:41

And if there wasn't evidence, does that mean you didn't fight back?

0:30:410:30:44

Why not?

0:30:440:30:45

We see it the whole time.

0:30:470:30:48

You ladies do make our job rather difficult.

0:30:480:30:51

HE GASPS

0:30:510:30:52

What are you thinking, Laurence?

0:30:520:30:53

Shall I tell you what's going on in your head, biologically?

0:30:530:30:56

There's a part of your brain, the amygdala,

0:30:560:30:59

it's telling you to do whatever you need to do to survive.

0:30:590:31:01

It's like a siren - "Survive! Survive!"

0:31:010:31:04

So loud, in fact, it's drowning out your cerebral cortex,

0:31:040:31:07

your logical brain.

0:31:070:31:08

Your cortex knows I'm not going to cut your throat.

0:31:090:31:12

Why would I do that?

0:31:120:31:14

My family's in enough trouble as it is.

0:31:140:31:16

But the amygdala, it's pure instinct.

0:31:160:31:18

It feels the damage this can do.

0:31:190:31:22

It's no bigger than a peanut...

0:31:220:31:24

Yet taken by surprise, afraid for your life...

0:31:250:31:30

..we're programmed to do whatever will ensure our survival.

0:31:320:31:38

And sometimes...

0:31:380:31:40

..that's nothing.

0:31:410:31:43

I think you've made your point.

0:31:510:31:53

Gary.

0:32:200:32:21

Sorry...

0:32:290:32:31

It's going to be OK.

0:32:310:32:33

It's all going be OK... I'm sorry.

0:32:330:32:38

I'm sorry.

0:32:410:32:43

Oh!

0:33:370:33:39

God, my ankle!

0:33:390:33:40

I'm so sorry. It was the tag. You OK?

0:33:400:33:43

Of course...

0:33:430:33:44

THEY LAUGH

0:33:480:33:51

You OK?

0:33:580:34:00

I want you to promise me something.

0:34:180:34:20

Aye-aye...

0:34:240:34:26

If at any point during the trial, I don't want you to be there,

0:34:310:34:35

I want you to promise that you'll stay away.

0:34:350:34:38

But you know I want to be there for the whole thing.

0:34:420:34:44

Please.

0:34:440:34:47

And from what Jas has said - and that little shitheel -

0:34:470:34:50

about making the right impression,

0:34:500:34:52

it's really important that I'm seen to be standing by your side.

0:34:520:34:56

I know.

0:34:560:34:57

But I don't think I could bear it,

0:34:570:35:00

if I have to talk about what George Selway did.

0:35:000:35:03

Please.

0:35:070:35:09

OK.

0:35:110:35:13

'Would you have seen it as a betrayal,

0:35:220:35:24

'if Gary and I had made love?

0:35:240:35:26

'Because one thing I do know, you haven't betrayed me.'

0:35:300:35:33

No, Mum was great, cool as a cucumber.

0:36:000:36:03

It was... It was me that lost it...

0:36:030:36:06

Yeah, I know, but you had to be here, Carrie,

0:36:060:36:08

-he was absolutely appalling!

-Babe!

0:36:080:36:10

Oh, Suze.

0:36:100:36:13

I'm so sorry.

0:36:140:36:16

I'm so sorry.

0:36:160:36:18

You don't have to talk about it if you don't want to.

0:36:220:36:24

Oh, God.

0:36:240:36:26

But if you do...I'm here.

0:36:260:36:28

I wish I'd talked to you.

0:36:290:36:31

I wish I'd talked to you about everything.

0:36:310:36:33

Well, like my mum says - "Still waters run deep."

0:36:330:36:39

She doesn't know the half of it.

0:36:390:36:41

DOORBELL RINGS

0:36:410:36:43

I'll get it.

0:36:430:36:45

Yvonne!

0:36:460:36:49

Yvonne Carmichael, I'm arresting you for breaching the conditions

0:36:490:36:52

-of your bail.

-I'll call Jaspreet.

0:36:520:36:53

You might want to get a few things together for her.

0:36:530:36:55

What are you doing?

0:36:550:36:57

Look, there is no need for that. She's not going to run away!

0:36:570:36:59

This is crazy! I haven't done anything! I haven't done anything!

0:36:590:37:02

I'll be right behind you in the car, love.

0:37:020:37:03

Suse, could you give me a hand, please?

0:37:030:37:05

Mark Costley sent you a text from prison and you replied,

0:37:070:37:10

is that right?

0:37:100:37:11

I got a text from a number that I didn't recognise.

0:37:110:37:14

And I just asked who it was.

0:37:140:37:17

And you sent a second text.

0:37:170:37:18

It doesn't matter. The point is, he made contact and you responded.

0:37:210:37:25

Which is breaching the conditions of your bail.

0:37:250:37:27

But he's not even supposed to have a phone in prison, is he?

0:37:270:37:29

Well, clearly he got hold of one. I'm sorry, Yvonne.

0:37:290:37:32

You'll be kept in Holloway on remand.

0:37:320:37:35

At least we're close to the trial date.

0:37:440:37:46

It could be deliberate, on Costley's part. Tit for tat.

0:37:460:37:50

He's in prison, so why not you?

0:37:500:37:52

He's not like that.

0:37:520:37:53

Isn't he?

0:37:540:37:56

He has a niece that's good at science, is that right?

0:38:070:38:09

Yeah.

0:38:090:38:11

My eldest daughter's into science.

0:38:110:38:14

That's always good to hear.

0:38:140:38:16

Yeah.

0:38:160:38:17

Yes, er, she showed me this thing. I'm not sure she should be

0:38:180:38:22

watching it, to be honest with you,

0:38:220:38:24

but, uh...I suppose it's educational.

0:38:240:38:27

You've probably seen it.

0:38:280:38:30

This American who did experiments with monkeys in the 1950s,

0:38:300:38:33

on animal behaviour. Rice, I think he was called...

0:38:330:38:36

It's not really my field, animal behaviour.

0:38:360:38:39

There's a mother, er, with a baby,

0:38:390:38:41

and, uh...there's a heating element on the floor of the monkey cage.

0:38:410:38:46

It's pretty horrible, actually. No Wi-Fi.

0:38:470:38:51

I think it's supposed to be an experiment in altruism.

0:38:580:39:01

They keep increasing the temperature of the cage floor.

0:39:010:39:04

The worst thing is, in the end, when its feet are burning...

0:39:040:39:07

I suppose it's in so much pain.

0:39:070:39:09

The monkey, it just drops its baby and stands on it.

0:39:110:39:14

Jesus.

0:39:140:39:16

Still, it's interesting, though.

0:39:200:39:22

The tipping point...and self-preservation.

0:39:220:39:26

You think Mark Costley's reached his tipping point?

0:39:280:39:31

It's worth bearing in mind.

0:39:320:39:35

The text Mark Costley sent you... What did it mean, anyway?

0:39:410:39:45

The Wedekind experiment?

0:39:460:39:48

Oh, um, well, it was just an experiment that I was

0:39:480:39:51

involved in, early on in my career and...

0:39:510:39:53

I... I must have told him about it when we were t...

0:39:550:39:58

talking about his niece. The one who's interested in science.

0:39:580:40:02

Like your daughter.

0:40:040:40:05

You were definitely the first person...

0:40:190:40:23

..to qualify the Wedekind experiment.

0:40:240:40:28

Yeah!

0:40:290:40:30

'No tipping point. For either of us.

0:40:390:40:42

'You wanted to let me know that you're keeping the faith.

0:40:440:40:48

'How can I blame you for that?'

0:40:480:40:49

BUZZER

0:41:240:41:26

So, the order of the prosecution witnesses...

0:41:350:41:38

Feeling OK, Yvonne?

0:41:400:41:42

I'm relieved we're starting, but I'm dreading it.

0:41:420:41:46

Of course.

0:41:460:41:47

You won't be called for a very long time, Dr Carmichael.

0:41:480:41:51

I'm not sure if that makes it worse...

0:41:510:41:53

But do bear in mind the jury will be able to see you throughout.

0:41:530:41:56

Just try to stay composed if you can.

0:41:560:41:58

What are "special measures"?

0:42:020:42:04

Yes, that's the witness that needs to retain anonymity.

0:42:040:42:07

The MI5 man, yes?

0:42:070:42:08

Yeah.

0:42:080:42:10

Exciting times.

0:42:100:42:11

So, Yvonne, anything else to tell Robert?

0:42:120:42:14

Or anything else you need to know?

0:42:140:42:16

Um... No... I think that covers it. Thank you.

0:42:160:42:20

Good luck.

0:42:220:42:23

Luck has nothing to do with it.

0:42:230:42:26

DOOR BUZZES

0:42:260:42:27

All persons having anything to do at the Central Criminal Court

0:44:150:44:19

draw near and give your attendance.

0:44:190:44:21

I don't seem to have a batting order.

0:44:340:44:37

You fucking bitch! You deserve everything you get!

0:45:130:45:17

You bitch, you evil bitch!

0:45:180:45:20

-Look at what you're doing to all of us...

-Calm down.

0:45:200:45:23

-Please...

-I have two children at home who have broken their hearts

0:45:230:45:26

because their father is there,

0:45:260:45:30

that you have brought into your mess...

0:45:300:45:33

My lord... Ladies and gentlemen.

0:45:440:45:47

You will hear two defences being offered in this court.

0:45:480:45:51

You will hear medical evidence concerning the claim of the

0:45:510:45:55

first defendant, Mark Liam Costley,

0:45:550:45:57

that he should be found not guilty of murder on grounds of

0:45:570:46:01

diminished responsibility, that he is not responsible for

0:46:010:46:05

killing George Selway because he has a personality disorder.

0:46:050:46:09

His defence will argue that he is mentally unstable.

0:46:090:46:13

You will also hear evidence from the second defendant,

0:46:130:46:16

Yvonne Carmichael, that she is entirely innocent,

0:46:160:46:21

that she knew nothing of Mr Costley's intentions when she

0:46:210:46:24

drove him to the doorstep of a man who had viciously assaulted her.

0:46:240:46:28

When questioned by the police, this eminent scientist claimed

0:46:300:46:34

that she had no idea what might be going on when she sat waiting in her

0:46:340:46:39

car outside that property, waiting,

0:46:390:46:44

and waiting...and waiting.

0:46:440:46:47

The police were told that she had no thought whatsoever something

0:46:490:46:52

might be amiss when Mr Costley took so long to return, having changed

0:46:520:46:57

some of his clothing but having neglected to change his shoes,

0:46:570:47:02

the shoes that transferred blood to the mat in the footwell of her car.

0:47:020:47:08

The prosecution's case is that this is all nonsense. Mark Liam Costley

0:47:090:47:15

and Yvonne Carmichael planned and connived, quite coldly and in

0:47:150:47:19

advance, that one would do the deed and the other drive the getaway car.

0:47:190:47:23

Each encouraged and facilitated the other's behaviour. And each,

0:47:230:47:28

therefore, is as guilty as the other,

0:47:280:47:30

of the murder of George Simon Selway.

0:47:300:47:34

It might be an idea to get something down, if you can, Dr Carmichael.

0:47:390:47:42

After lunch we're in for the long haul.

0:47:420:47:45

Ladies and gentlemen,

0:47:450:47:46

may I invite you to turn to the first page of the jury bundle?

0:47:460:47:49

'Maps, photographs, forensic diagrams,

0:47:490:47:53

'it's nothing to worry about.

0:47:530:47:55

'Smoke and mirrors.'

0:47:550:47:57

The prosecution just want to hammer it home, essentially.

0:47:580:48:01

Guilty, guilty, guilty.

0:48:010:48:03

The woman you saw sitting in the car outside George Selway's flat.

0:48:030:48:06

Can you point her out to the court, please?

0:48:060:48:09

'I'm afraid Miss Bonnard, Mr Costley's barrister,

0:48:120:48:14

'might pile on the agony a bit as well.

0:48:140:48:16

'Brand-new silk. They always want to cross-examine every single witness.'

0:48:160:48:20

Isn't that what you'll be doing?

0:48:200:48:22

No.

0:48:220:48:24

I have no questions for the witness, my lord.

0:48:240:48:26

No cross-exam from us.

0:48:280:48:30

An innocent woman doesn't need to get bogged down

0:48:300:48:32

in the sordid details.

0:48:320:48:34

That's our message.

0:48:350:48:36

Can you clarify, Dr Weatherfield, what kind of force would have

0:48:390:48:42

been needed to cause this level of injury to the victim's neck area?

0:48:420:48:47

It would have to be a blunt trauma injury of some force,

0:48:470:48:51

consistent with stamping while the victim was face up on the floor.

0:48:510:48:54

And how can you tell that this force would have been considerable?

0:48:540:48:58

The bruising.

0:48:580:48:59

You can see the clear imprint of the attacker's trainer on the torso.

0:48:590:49:04

And the victim's voice box was shattered.

0:49:040:49:07

In order to sustain that level of injury, I would say that the

0:49:070:49:11

person applying the force would perhaps have been jumping

0:49:110:49:15

while he or she stamped on him.

0:49:150:49:17

What was the extent of the injury to the nose?

0:49:170:49:20

The nose was almost certainly broken by a blow before the victim

0:49:200:49:24

was on the ground, perhaps as a way of initiating the attack.

0:49:240:49:28

There was considerable blood from the nose on the victim's clothes.

0:49:290:49:32

Once he was on his back, that wouldn't have flowed

0:49:320:49:35

vertically down his clothes.

0:49:350:49:38

Thank you. No further questions, my lord.

0:49:390:49:41

Can we be clear on this, Dr Weatherfield?

0:49:430:49:45

Could the dilution of blood on the victim's clothes have been

0:49:450:49:49

caused by him emptying his bladder?

0:49:490:49:51

Rather than any purposeful dilution of the blood by Mr Costley in

0:49:510:49:55

an attempt at clearing up after death?

0:49:550:49:57

Well...it could.

0:49:570:49:59

It's correct there were no tests done on the diluting component.

0:49:590:50:03

So it could have been urine?

0:50:030:50:05

It could have been...

0:50:050:50:07

Thank you. No further questions on behalf of Mr Costley.

0:50:070:50:11

My lord, I have no questions for this witness.

0:50:130:50:16

'How did it go so far? Did he provoke you?

0:50:250:50:29

'Is this what you've been trained to do?'

0:50:310:50:34

It's not looking good for him, is it?

0:50:450:50:47

He looks different to how I imagined.

0:50:500:50:52

Do you know this, erm, experiment.

0:51:030:51:07

Rice.

0:51:070:51:08

Um, animal behaviourist, 1950s, I think.

0:51:080:51:12

Rice?

0:51:120:51:13

Yeah.

0:51:130:51:14

Erm, is that the one with the monkeys?

0:51:140:51:18

Mm.

0:51:180:51:20

What's that got to do with anything?

0:51:200:51:21

It's just been in my head and I don't really get to talk to anybody

0:51:210:51:25

in here, or...not in court for that matter, either.

0:51:250:51:29

Have you seen the footage?

0:51:290:51:31

Erm...

0:51:310:51:32

I'm not sure. Erm... maybe years ago.

0:51:320:51:36

It's the one with the heated cage, right?

0:51:360:51:38

Mm.

0:51:380:51:39

Um, yeah, it's extraordinary.

0:51:400:51:42

Really? That's not the word I'd use.

0:51:420:51:43

Well, I mean the experiment's horrific.

0:51:430:51:45

They wouldn't get away with it these days.

0:51:450:51:47

But the...the outcome's pretty amazing. The power of maternal love.

0:51:470:51:51

You're kidding!

0:51:510:51:52

I... I thought the whole point was the monkey drops the baby.

0:51:520:51:55

No, she saves the baby. I remember reading about it.

0:51:550:51:59

She holds the baby in the air and lets her feet burn.

0:51:590:52:02

If it's the same experiment.

0:52:040:52:06

'I wish I could make you feel safe.'

0:52:230:52:25

'I do. I feel safe here with you.

0:52:290:52:33

'I know you. You're not a monster...

0:52:380:52:43

'..and once everyone else knows what you are, they'll understand.'

0:52:460:52:50

Members of the jury, this witness is to give evidence behind a screen.

0:52:530:52:56

You'll be able to see the witness,

0:52:560:52:59

however, the defendants and the gallery will not.

0:52:590:53:02

Thank you for your patience while we make the necessary adjustments.

0:53:020:53:06

Witness A, can you please tell us what your job is?

0:53:070:53:11

My title is Chief Training Operative, MI5.

0:53:110:53:14

And can you explain for us what a Chief Training Operative is or does?

0:53:140:53:18

There are various roles,

0:53:180:53:19

but my particular responsibility is to oversee the testing we put

0:53:190:53:22

operatives through, both physical and psychological.

0:53:220:53:26

As part of the selection process for MI5.

0:53:260:53:28

And...how do you go about finding out whether or not

0:53:280:53:31

a given person is suitable for a career in M15?

0:53:310:53:34

I understand that the precise methods are confidential but if you

0:53:340:53:37

could, please give the court a general idea.

0:53:370:53:40

Well, we begin with, erm, psychological questionnaires,

0:53:400:53:43

interviews and so on.

0:53:430:53:45

Physical tests?

0:53:450:53:46

Well, yes, of course.

0:53:460:53:48

Then candidates who make the first cut move to

0:53:480:53:50

a more extended period of training.

0:53:500:53:52

Witness A, do you know the defendant, Mark Costley?

0:53:520:53:56

Yes, I met Mr Costley in the autumn of 2008,

0:53:560:53:59

when he applied to join the security services.

0:53:590:54:01

He made the "first cut", as you would say?

0:54:010:54:03

Yes. I was responsible for assessing his application.

0:54:030:54:06

Not exclusively, but I was the supervising officer.

0:54:060:54:09

Could you tell us a little more about the training Mr Costley

0:54:090:54:12

underwent, so far as you are permitted to say?

0:54:120:54:15

Well, candidates attend seminars, lectures, and they also

0:54:150:54:18

undergo a period of more what you might call interactive training.

0:54:180:54:21

Does this include combat training?

0:54:210:54:23

There's a basic level of combat training.

0:54:230:54:25

Of course, Mr Costley had spent some years in the police force,

0:54:250:54:28

so he was already familiar with some of the principles.

0:54:280:54:30

Indeed.

0:54:300:54:31

Would this level of training give an individual an advantage over

0:54:310:54:35

what you might call an average citizen, in a fight?

0:54:350:54:39

Well, that's rather what it's designed to do, yes.

0:54:390:54:42

To be clear, does combat training, as opposed to what Mr Costley

0:54:420:54:46

would had been taught as part of his police officer safety training,

0:54:460:54:50

include a technique for breaking an assailant's nose

0:54:500:54:53

with the palm of one's hand?

0:54:530:54:55

That's one of the techniques disseminated, yes.

0:54:550:54:58

And in assessing Mark Costley, did you find him suitable to the

0:54:580:55:02

physical requirements of an MI5 officer?

0:55:020:55:04

Yes, we did.

0:55:040:55:06

During the time you were assessing Mr Costley, did you ever feel

0:55:060:55:09

sufficient concern about his mental stability to raise the issue

0:55:090:55:14

with his line manager in the Metropolitan Police Force?

0:55:140:55:18

His mental stability? I'm sorry,

0:55:180:55:20

I don't quite see where you're heading with this...

0:55:200:55:23

I mean, it really wasn't my...role.

0:55:230:55:25

I'm asking if you were happy enough with Mark Costley's mental state

0:55:250:55:29

to allow him to continue working as a police officer,

0:55:290:55:31

and then to move on into a sensitive position involving the

0:55:310:55:35

security and the safety of our Members of Parliament,

0:55:350:55:38

despite your final decision to reject his application to join MI5?

0:55:380:55:43

Yes, it was purely for me to turn him down as an unsuitable

0:55:530:55:57

candidate for the security services.

0:55:570:55:59

'I wasn't fucking a spook.

0:56:060:56:08

'The spooks didn't want you...

0:56:120:56:13

'All the ways you made yourself mysterious...'

0:56:170:56:20

Facing the wrong way...

0:56:200:56:23

'Risk assessment.'

0:56:230:56:24

'..the phones, the safe house...

0:56:240:56:27

'Why? I believed you.

0:56:320:56:35

'Everything about you. Who are you...really?

0:56:370:56:41

'What have I done?'

0:56:460:56:47

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