Browse content similar to Part 1. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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"Now conscience wakes despair That slumber'd, | 0:00:02 | 0:00:04 | |
"Wakes the bitter memory Of what he was. | 0:00:04 | 0:00:08 | |
"What is, and what must be worse." | 0:00:09 | 0:00:12 | |
Mum! | 0:01:03 | 0:01:04 | |
Mum! | 0:01:04 | 0:01:06 | |
Mum! | 0:01:06 | 0:01:08 | |
"Of worse deeds worse sufferings must ensue." | 0:01:11 | 0:01:16 | |
# Testator silens | 0:01:24 | 0:01:32 | |
# Costestes e spiritu | 0:01:32 | 0:01:40 | |
# Silentium... # | 0:01:40 | 0:01:47 | |
Normal colour sclera. | 0:01:53 | 0:01:56 | |
No jaundice, no petechiae, no facial stigmata or disease. | 0:01:58 | 0:02:01 | |
Intrathoracic haemorrhage | 0:02:01 | 0:02:03 | |
seems inconsistent with the low velocity of road traffic collision. | 0:02:03 | 0:02:07 | |
Might be looking for a natural cause. | 0:02:07 | 0:02:08 | |
Maybe a spontaneous rupture of an aortic aneurysm. | 0:02:08 | 0:02:12 | |
Normal nails. | 0:02:12 | 0:02:14 | |
No clubbing... | 0:02:14 | 0:02:16 | |
or other abnormality. | 0:02:16 | 0:02:17 | |
You feeling the cold there, Sergeant? | 0:02:24 | 0:02:26 | |
-It is rather cold, isn't it? -Not working hard enough. | 0:02:26 | 0:02:29 | |
God, it's freezing in here too, isn't it? | 0:02:40 | 0:02:43 | |
You're right. The air-con's gone haywire. | 0:02:50 | 0:02:53 | |
ELECTRIC SQUEAKS | 0:02:57 | 0:02:59 | |
Mean anything to you? | 0:02:59 | 0:03:01 | |
I think we need professional help. | 0:03:01 | 0:03:03 | |
Leo's the one who knows all about it. | 0:03:03 | 0:03:05 | |
He was here when it was installed. | 0:03:05 | 0:03:07 | |
There'll be a number in his office. | 0:03:07 | 0:03:09 | |
Where is Leo, anyway? | 0:03:09 | 0:03:11 | |
What you are saying, Dr Karamides, is that this did not happen. | 0:03:11 | 0:03:16 | |
This child did not die | 0:03:16 | 0:03:18 | |
in the way a variety of other medical specialists say he did. | 0:03:18 | 0:03:20 | |
I'm speaking about the over-reliance | 0:03:20 | 0:03:23 | |
on the so-called triad of brain injuries. | 0:03:23 | 0:03:25 | |
WHISPERS IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE | 0:03:25 | 0:03:27 | |
Three physical symptoms - retinal haemorrhage, | 0:03:27 | 0:03:29 | |
subdural haematoma, and acute encephalopathy, | 0:03:29 | 0:03:31 | |
which some pathologists believe is proof positive | 0:03:31 | 0:03:34 | |
of shaken-baby syndrome. | 0:03:34 | 0:03:36 | |
-But you don't? -No, I don't. | 0:03:36 | 0:03:38 | |
And nor do a number of eminent pathologists. | 0:03:38 | 0:03:41 | |
So, what happened in this case? | 0:03:42 | 0:03:44 | |
In my opinion, Baby K suffered an epileptic seizure, | 0:03:44 | 0:03:48 | |
which led to subdural haemorrhage, | 0:03:48 | 0:03:49 | |
and eventually to hypoxic-ischaemic brain damage. | 0:03:49 | 0:03:52 | |
-In your opinion? -In my opinion. | 0:03:52 | 0:03:55 | |
But the coroner sought the opinions of other experts - | 0:03:55 | 0:03:58 | |
ophthalmologists, neuropathologists - | 0:03:58 | 0:04:01 | |
who have testified that these injuries | 0:04:01 | 0:04:03 | |
are more likely to have arisen | 0:04:03 | 0:04:05 | |
from the baby being shaken and manhandled by his angry mother. | 0:04:05 | 0:04:09 | |
Indeed. | 0:04:09 | 0:04:11 | |
-But do you disagree with all of them? -Yes! I do. | 0:04:11 | 0:04:14 | |
Ah, here we are. Paul Bewley, heating and ventilation. | 0:04:17 | 0:04:22 | |
He's in court today. | 0:04:22 | 0:04:24 | |
-Request to attend a custody hearing. -Are you meant to be reading that? | 0:04:29 | 0:04:34 | |
To give expert testimony on a matter of neonatal pathology. | 0:04:34 | 0:04:37 | |
What? | 0:04:37 | 0:04:39 | |
I thought we agreed to stay away from the triad. | 0:04:39 | 0:04:41 | |
And even at this late hour, Dr Karamides, | 0:04:41 | 0:04:44 | |
I cannot get you to consent to the majority view of all your peers? | 0:04:44 | 0:04:48 | |
My job is not to support the consensus. | 0:04:48 | 0:04:51 | |
It's to give you my professional opinion as a pathologist | 0:04:51 | 0:04:54 | |
who specialises in brain development. | 0:04:54 | 0:04:57 | |
I am not asking for consensus, but clarity. | 0:04:57 | 0:04:59 | |
How can this court make up its mind | 0:04:59 | 0:05:02 | |
when its own expert witnesses dispute not just conclusions | 0:05:02 | 0:05:06 | |
but the evidence which underlies those conclusions? | 0:05:06 | 0:05:10 | |
We all decided after the Alice Copeland case | 0:05:10 | 0:05:12 | |
-that we wouldn't do any more neonatal work. -Sorry. | 0:05:12 | 0:05:15 | |
Yeah, I just lost you a minute. I'm in the basement. | 0:05:15 | 0:05:17 | |
OK, follow the pipes. That's what I'm doing. | 0:05:17 | 0:05:21 | |
And... Oh, yeah, OK. Is that...? I think I can see the unit. | 0:05:21 | 0:05:24 | |
It's a kind of...grey box with knobs. Is that right? | 0:05:24 | 0:05:28 | |
Er...there's a lot of vapour coming out of other pipes. | 0:05:28 | 0:05:31 | |
-It doesn't make any sense... -I don't know if that's good. | 0:05:31 | 0:05:33 | |
..if he's in court giving expert testimony on a neonatal case. | 0:05:33 | 0:05:36 | |
How long? Oh. | 0:05:36 | 0:05:38 | |
Really? Well...well, can you please just call me when you know? | 0:05:38 | 0:05:41 | |
Because, er...we are dying of cold here. | 0:05:41 | 0:05:45 | |
Professor Dalton. | 0:05:57 | 0:05:59 | |
I understand you are president of the Institute of Pathologists? | 0:05:59 | 0:06:02 | |
I am, yes. | 0:06:02 | 0:06:04 | |
And you completely disagree | 0:06:04 | 0:06:07 | |
with the expert testimony presented by Dr Karamides? | 0:06:07 | 0:06:11 | |
I do, yes. | 0:06:11 | 0:06:13 | |
(SIGHS) My head's gone numb. | 0:06:20 | 0:06:22 | |
-He's been reading up about the triad. -Oh, has he? | 0:06:23 | 0:06:26 | |
This is about Helen Karamides. | 0:06:28 | 0:06:30 | |
PHONE RINGS | 0:06:30 | 0:06:33 | |
There's a theory that the pathology of the brain | 0:06:39 | 0:06:42 | |
could be caused by factors other than shaking. | 0:06:42 | 0:06:44 | |
But this particular theory, which involves questions of hypoxia, | 0:06:44 | 0:06:47 | |
brain swelling, raised intracranial pressure, | 0:06:47 | 0:06:50 | |
is highly contentious and, to my mind, utterly unproven. | 0:06:50 | 0:06:54 | |
But these symptoms were present in the case of Baby K? | 0:06:54 | 0:06:58 | |
Yes, but when taken together with other more complex factors, | 0:06:58 | 0:07:02 | |
these make non-accidental head injury much more likely. | 0:07:02 | 0:07:06 | |
In short, you believe this baby was shaken? | 0:07:06 | 0:07:09 | |
Yes. | 0:07:09 | 0:07:11 | |
Quick would be...good. Yeah. | 0:07:13 | 0:07:16 | |
OK, thanks. Plumber's calling his mate. | 0:07:16 | 0:07:19 | |
A plumber's mating call is being made. Help is on its way. | 0:07:19 | 0:07:22 | |
Why didn't Leo tell us he was doing this? | 0:07:22 | 0:07:25 | |
I should think because he knows how you feel about Helen Karamides | 0:07:25 | 0:07:29 | |
and I should think because he didn't want a row, | 0:07:29 | 0:07:31 | |
and I agree with him. | 0:07:31 | 0:07:35 | |
"O much deceiv'd, much failing | 0:08:03 | 0:08:07 | |
"Hapless Eve | 0:08:07 | 0:08:09 | |
"Of thy presum'd return! | 0:08:09 | 0:08:12 | |
"Event perverse! | 0:08:12 | 0:08:15 | |
"Thou never from that hour in Paradise | 0:08:15 | 0:08:17 | |
"Found'st either sweet repast or sound repose | 0:08:17 | 0:08:23 | |
"Such ambush, hid among sweet flowers and shades | 0:08:23 | 0:08:27 | |
"Waited with hellish rancour imminent | 0:08:27 | 0:08:30 | |
"To intercept thy way, or send thee back | 0:08:30 | 0:08:35 | |
"Despoil'd of innocence, of faith, of bliss." | 0:08:35 | 0:08:40 | |
Mears? Visitors' area. | 0:08:56 | 0:08:58 | |
Mears! | 0:09:01 | 0:09:03 | |
-Here it is. -Here what is? | 0:09:15 | 0:09:17 | |
Leo's list. | 0:09:17 | 0:09:20 | |
One postmortem review on a six-month-old baby, | 0:09:20 | 0:09:23 | |
and the name of the first pathologist has been redacted. | 0:09:23 | 0:09:25 | |
I don't know anything about it. | 0:09:27 | 0:09:28 | |
We're marking someone else's homework. | 0:09:28 | 0:09:31 | |
And guess what. | 0:09:31 | 0:09:33 | |
Someone whose name is five letters followed by nine letters. | 0:09:33 | 0:09:37 | |
Helen Karamides. | 0:09:39 | 0:09:42 | |
Professor Dalton, are you a specialist paediatric pathologist? | 0:09:42 | 0:09:46 | |
No, I'm not. | 0:09:46 | 0:09:48 | |
-Do you do any paediatric work? -Er...some. | 0:09:48 | 0:09:51 | |
For various reasons, my colleagues and I | 0:09:51 | 0:09:53 | |
have recently ceased doing neonatal work. | 0:09:53 | 0:09:55 | |
Hm. So, on what basis are we asked to accept your expert evidence? | 0:09:55 | 0:10:00 | |
Well, as a professor of pathology, | 0:10:01 | 0:10:03 | |
and a member of the Home Secretary's Register of Forensic Pathologists, | 0:10:03 | 0:10:07 | |
I keep up with the literature. | 0:10:07 | 0:10:08 | |
This isn't about the literature, Professor. | 0:10:08 | 0:10:10 | |
This is about whether a mother unlawfully killed her own child | 0:10:10 | 0:10:14 | |
and whether this court should now deny her custody | 0:10:14 | 0:10:16 | |
of her surviving child. | 0:10:16 | 0:10:19 | |
You know why you're here, Annie? | 0:10:54 | 0:10:56 | |
All that matters, the only thing that matters... | 0:10:56 | 0:11:00 | |
...is those girls and their families. | 0:11:01 | 0:11:03 | |
Otherwise I don't come. | 0:11:05 | 0:11:07 | |
All I have are your visits. | 0:11:09 | 0:11:11 | |
Well, then. | 0:11:14 | 0:11:16 | |
Of course, it is generally preferable... | 0:11:16 | 0:11:19 | |
WHISPERING | 0:11:19 | 0:11:21 | |
.for a child to remain with his or her parents. | 0:11:21 | 0:11:24 | |
But only if that environment is safe. | 0:11:24 | 0:11:28 | |
In the case of the sibling, Child A, | 0:11:28 | 0:11:32 | |
what I have heard today seriously calls that safety into question. | 0:11:32 | 0:11:37 | |
To my mind, the evidence we have heard | 0:11:37 | 0:11:41 | |
suggests there is significant risk | 0:11:41 | 0:11:44 | |
that if he remains with his mother, | 0:11:44 | 0:11:46 | |
he may suffer the same fate as his brother. | 0:11:46 | 0:11:50 | |
I have listened to conflicting expert testimonies, | 0:11:50 | 0:11:54 | |
and I have to say I find that of Professor Dalton | 0:11:54 | 0:11:57 | |
more convincing, to say the least. | 0:11:57 | 0:12:00 | |
The arguments of Dr Karamides, though no doubt well meant, | 0:12:00 | 0:12:05 | |
seem to me to be baseless and quite possibly misleading. | 0:12:05 | 0:12:09 | |
I have therefore decided, with regret, | 0:12:11 | 0:12:15 | |
to entrust this child to the care of the local authority. | 0:12:15 | 0:12:20 | |
LOW CHATTER | 0:12:20 | 0:12:22 | |
Dr Karamides! Do you have your own comment to make? | 0:12:26 | 0:12:30 | |
-Will you resign? -Dr Karamides! | 0:12:30 | 0:12:33 | |
REPORTERS CLAMOURING | 0:12:33 | 0:12:36 | |
Ever since Karamides started challenging the triad, | 0:12:40 | 0:12:42 | |
-they've been out to get her. -Who have? -The establishment, the male establishment. | 0:12:42 | 0:12:47 | |
-Oh, come on! -And Leo's part of it. -What? | 0:12:47 | 0:12:48 | |
He's President of the Institute of Pathologists. | 0:12:48 | 0:12:51 | |
Can't get much more establishment than that. | 0:12:51 | 0:12:53 | |
-Doesn't mean he's part of a witch-hunt. -Doesn't it? -Does it? | 0:12:53 | 0:12:56 | |
He's going up against her in court | 0:12:56 | 0:12:58 | |
and he's agreed to check up on her postmortems. | 0:12:58 | 0:13:00 | |
-I think Leo knows what he's doing. -Yes, I'm sure he does. | 0:13:00 | 0:13:03 | |
Um...James Reagan. | 0:13:05 | 0:13:08 | |
-The Institute of Pathologists. -We spoke on the phone. | 0:13:08 | 0:13:11 | |
-Oh. How do you do? -Most impressive, if I may say so. | 0:13:11 | 0:13:15 | |
Yeah, well, thank you. | 0:13:15 | 0:13:17 | |
You going to do what you promised me? | 0:13:23 | 0:13:25 | |
You got anything for me? | 0:13:25 | 0:13:27 | |
Memories. | 0:13:29 | 0:13:32 | |
I'm here alone with my memories. | 0:13:32 | 0:13:34 | |
So are the families of all those other girls. | 0:13:34 | 0:13:37 | |
Do memories affect you? | 0:13:37 | 0:13:39 | |
Of course memories affect me. | 0:13:41 | 0:13:43 | |
Like the angels. | 0:13:43 | 0:13:46 | |
They remember how they were in heaven and the Garden of Eden | 0:13:47 | 0:13:51 | |
and they despair when they remember. | 0:13:51 | 0:13:55 | |
I'll give you memories. | 0:13:57 | 0:13:59 | |
If you give me somewhere to go when I leave here. | 0:14:01 | 0:14:03 | |
All right, then. | 0:14:06 | 0:14:08 | |
HE CLEARS THROAT AND SNORTS | 0:14:08 | 0:14:10 | |
Now... | 0:14:23 | 0:14:25 | |
...memories. | 0:14:27 | 0:14:28 | |
That's unfair. I know Leo has to play the political game a bit these days, | 0:14:28 | 0:14:32 | |
but he doesn't enjoy it. | 0:14:32 | 0:14:33 | |
He's never liked Helen, for some reason. | 0:14:33 | 0:14:36 | |
He's never liked her ideas, but he believes in her right to air them. | 0:14:36 | 0:14:39 | |
DOORBELL RINGS | 0:14:39 | 0:14:40 | |
Oh, thank goodness. | 0:14:40 | 0:14:42 | |
Hello? | 0:14:46 | 0:14:47 | |
-Dr Cunningham? -Yes, thanks for coming. Hi. | 0:14:47 | 0:14:49 | |
Come in. | 0:14:49 | 0:14:52 | |
Er...let me show you. | 0:14:52 | 0:14:54 | |
Have to take you into the bowels of the building, I'm afraid. | 0:14:54 | 0:14:59 | |
Very, very, er...cold everywhere, as you can feel. | 0:14:59 | 0:15:02 | |
About 500 yards from the bus stop, there's a fence. | 0:15:18 | 0:15:22 | |
Then there was a gate. | 0:15:26 | 0:15:29 | |
I went through the gate. | 0:15:29 | 0:15:32 | |
Down a...a slight hill. | 0:15:32 | 0:15:34 | |
-Did you hear the cars? -Yes. | 0:15:38 | 0:15:41 | |
Of course. | 0:15:41 | 0:15:43 | |
And then? | 0:16:01 | 0:16:03 | |
And then there was a little stream with a bridge. | 0:16:04 | 0:16:07 | |
I thought I'd gone too far. | 0:16:20 | 0:16:22 | |
Then I found it. | 0:16:55 | 0:16:57 | |
I was about to use the Yellow Pages. | 0:17:09 | 0:17:11 | |
No good, mate. You can't get any old Tom, Dick or Harry on kit like this. | 0:17:11 | 0:17:14 | |
Is that right? | 0:17:14 | 0:17:15 | |
No. The ticket to work on something like this costs 5,000 quid. | 0:17:15 | 0:17:18 | |
Yeah. | 0:17:18 | 0:17:20 | |
Looks like you've got a problem with the compressor. | 0:17:43 | 0:17:46 | |
-Won't know till we've tested it all out. -Right, well, do your best. | 0:17:46 | 0:17:50 | |
I'll...I'll be in the office. | 0:17:50 | 0:17:51 | |
Hey. Do you know what this place is? | 0:17:52 | 0:17:56 | |
-Why did we stop doing neonatal work? -Oh, Alice Copeland, wasn't it? | 0:18:00 | 0:18:04 | |
Because we sent an innocent woman to jail. | 0:18:04 | 0:18:06 | |
-We didn't do anything. -Well, not us, but pathologists. | 0:18:06 | 0:18:09 | |
The profession. | 0:18:09 | 0:18:11 | |
The experts arrive at the scene with their detachment and objectivity | 0:18:11 | 0:18:14 | |
and announce that she shook her children to death and... | 0:18:14 | 0:18:17 | |
then she takes her own life. | 0:18:17 | 0:18:21 | |
If the courts had listened to Helen Karamides, | 0:18:24 | 0:18:26 | |
that would never have happened. | 0:18:26 | 0:18:29 | |
Hello. | 0:18:33 | 0:18:36 | |
Who are you? | 0:18:36 | 0:18:38 | |
It's your backfeed loop. We're going to have to trace it round. | 0:18:38 | 0:18:40 | |
-See if we can find the airlock. -Right. | 0:18:40 | 0:18:42 | |
Slight technical problem we had. Nothing works when you're not here. | 0:18:42 | 0:18:46 | |
Er...Leo, I think Nikki might want a word when you have a moment. | 0:18:46 | 0:18:50 | |
Oh, um... | 0:18:50 | 0:18:52 | |
James Reagan, acting for the Institute of Pathologists. | 0:18:52 | 0:18:55 | |
Harry Cunningham, hello. | 0:18:55 | 0:18:56 | |
Is it always this cold? Maybe you keep it this way because of the... | 0:18:56 | 0:18:59 | |
Something like that. Anyway, I'll, er...let you get on. | 0:18:59 | 0:19:02 | |
This way. | 0:19:04 | 0:19:06 | |
WHISTLES | 0:19:06 | 0:19:08 | |
CONSTRAINTS CLICKING | 0:19:20 | 0:19:22 | |
CLICKING | 0:19:24 | 0:19:27 | |
Bye, Annie. | 0:19:27 | 0:19:30 | |
Thanks. | 0:20:19 | 0:20:21 | |
Body's that of a male infant. | 0:20:43 | 0:20:45 | |
-Is Leo back? -Yeah. | 0:20:58 | 0:21:01 | |
There's evidence of widespread ammoniacal dermatitis | 0:21:06 | 0:21:09 | |
in the nappy area. | 0:21:09 | 0:21:10 | |
The previous pathologist opened the thorax and the abdomen. | 0:21:18 | 0:21:23 | |
So, I'm now reopening the sutured incision line. | 0:21:23 | 0:21:27 | |
The gastric mucosa shows evidence of widespread erosion... | 0:21:52 | 0:21:56 | |
...as was recognised by the previous pathologist. | 0:21:59 | 0:22:01 | |
Try breathing deeply. They say counting to 100 helps. | 0:22:01 | 0:22:03 | |
I suppose one gets used to it. | 0:22:05 | 0:22:07 | |
Not when it's a baby. | 0:22:09 | 0:22:11 | |
Mum, where are you? | 0:22:27 | 0:22:29 | |
Let me know where you are. | 0:22:30 | 0:22:32 | |
VEHICLE BEEPING | 0:23:03 | 0:23:05 | |
VEHICLE BEEPING | 0:23:10 | 0:23:12 | |
SHOUTING | 0:23:15 | 0:23:18 | |
-Nikki. -Don't mind me. | 0:23:23 | 0:23:26 | |
Look, I'm afraid this is confidential. The Institute... | 0:23:26 | 0:23:30 | |
Oh, we don't have anything to hide from each other. Do we? | 0:23:30 | 0:23:34 | |
No. No, of course not. | 0:23:34 | 0:23:36 | |
DOOR OPENS | 0:23:43 | 0:23:45 | |
So, Professor Dalton, you've completed the postmortem review? | 0:24:05 | 0:24:08 | |
-I have, yes. -And what's your conclusion? | 0:24:08 | 0:24:11 | |
Was the first pathologist in error? | 0:24:11 | 0:24:14 | |
Mr Reagan, I agreed to do a second postmortem | 0:24:14 | 0:24:17 | |
on an individual, not on a pathologist. | 0:24:17 | 0:24:19 | |
Nonetheless, as a solicitor, I'd like your professional opinion. | 0:24:19 | 0:24:23 | |
Well, there are some inconsistencies between my findings | 0:24:23 | 0:24:27 | |
-and those of the first pathologist, yes. -Such as? | 0:24:27 | 0:24:31 | |
The original postmortem found that the subject died of hypothermia, | 0:24:31 | 0:24:34 | |
and yet there's no record of any rectal temperature reading | 0:24:34 | 0:24:37 | |
in the original report. | 0:24:37 | 0:24:39 | |
So, the first pathologist was wrong? | 0:24:39 | 0:24:42 | |
Well, it's not as simple as that. | 0:24:42 | 0:24:44 | |
I haven't seen the results of any special investigations. | 0:24:44 | 0:24:47 | |
I haven't, explored the context. | 0:24:47 | 0:24:49 | |
-Context? -Context is everything, yes. | 0:24:49 | 0:24:53 | |
If you don't consider that, then... Well, we tend to make mistakes. | 0:24:53 | 0:24:56 | |
So, if a child died of hypothermia | 0:24:56 | 0:25:00 | |
then the temperature in the room is part of the context? | 0:25:00 | 0:25:03 | |
We would take that into consideration, yes. | 0:25:03 | 0:25:05 | |
-And not considering it would be negligent? -Well... | 0:25:05 | 0:25:09 | |
There are other causes to hypothermia besides being exposed to cold environments. | 0:25:11 | 0:25:14 | |
Who was the original pathologist, out of interest? | 0:25:14 | 0:25:17 | |
-As I said before, Dr... -Dr Alexander. | 0:25:17 | 0:25:21 | |
Dr Alexander, I'm afraid I'm really not at liberty... | 0:25:21 | 0:25:24 | |
I think you know who it is. | 0:25:24 | 0:25:26 | |
Helen Karamides has done more work on the infant brain | 0:26:36 | 0:26:39 | |
than almost anyone in this country. | 0:26:39 | 0:26:41 | |
Excuse me, could you tell me what your particular interest is in this? | 0:26:41 | 0:26:44 | |
I trained under her for a couple of years. | 0:26:44 | 0:26:47 | |
I have a professional interest. | 0:26:47 | 0:26:49 | |
-She doesn't deserve a witch-hunt. -Nikki, this is not a witch-hunt. | 0:26:49 | 0:26:53 | |
I was asked to do a postmortem review, which I have done, | 0:26:53 | 0:26:56 | |
-fairly and even-handedly, I hope. -And the rest is up to the Institute. | 0:26:56 | 0:27:00 | |
What's up to the Institute? | 0:27:00 | 0:27:02 | |
I'd love to talk about this all day, but I have rather a lot to do. | 0:27:02 | 0:27:06 | |
Professor Dalton. Dr Alexander. | 0:27:06 | 0:27:09 | |
Are you saying she's facing some kind of disciplinary procedure? | 0:27:11 | 0:27:14 | |
Why? If Dr Karamides is going to be ummoned before a tribunal, | 0:27:16 | 0:27:20 | |
I want you to know I will be more than happy to speak on her behalf. | 0:27:20 | 0:27:24 | |
-Look, do you know why I'm here? -No. Why are you here? | 0:27:24 | 0:27:27 | |
-Well, are you going to tell her or shall I? -Tell me what? | 0:27:30 | 0:27:33 | |
Helen Karamides has been accused of retaining tissue samples | 0:27:33 | 0:27:36 | |
-from dead infants. -Tissue samples? | 0:27:36 | 0:27:40 | |
Without their parents' permission. | 0:27:40 | 0:27:43 | |
-And you can prove that? -Yes, we can. | 0:27:44 | 0:27:46 | |
Right. | 0:27:50 | 0:27:51 | |
LEO SIGHS | 0:27:53 | 0:27:55 | |
That went well. | 0:27:56 | 0:27:57 | |
"Now conscience wakes despair That slumber'd, | 0:28:54 | 0:28:58 | |
"Wakes the bitter memory Of what he was, | 0:28:58 | 0:29:02 | |
"What is, and what must be worse | 0:29:02 | 0:29:05 | |
"Of worse deeds worse sufferings must ensue." | 0:29:07 | 0:29:12 | |
VEHICLE RUMBLING | 0:29:22 | 0:29:26 | |
Excuse me! | 0:30:08 | 0:30:09 | |
What are you doing? | 0:30:09 | 0:30:12 | |
Got to trace the pipe-work. | 0:30:12 | 0:30:14 | |
-Well, have you found anything? -No. | 0:30:15 | 0:30:18 | |
No. So, you shouldn't be in here, so please get out. | 0:30:18 | 0:30:21 | |
All right. All right, no need to make a fuss. | 0:30:21 | 0:30:23 | |
Um...that was quite a scene earlier. | 0:30:26 | 0:30:29 | |
What do you mean? | 0:30:29 | 0:30:31 | |
The way you handled that guy. I...I loved that. | 0:30:31 | 0:30:33 | |
Oh, great. | 0:30:33 | 0:30:35 | |
So, you, er... you cut people up in here, then? | 0:30:37 | 0:30:40 | |
Yes. | 0:30:40 | 0:30:41 | |
And people watch from up here? | 0:30:41 | 0:30:44 | |
Yes. | 0:30:44 | 0:30:46 | |
So, you know all about dead bodies? | 0:30:47 | 0:30:49 | |
Yes, that's my job. | 0:30:49 | 0:30:52 | |
"Thou never from that hour in Paradise | 0:30:54 | 0:30:57 | |
"Found'st either sweet repast or sound repose. | 0:30:57 | 0:31:00 | |
"Such ambush, hid among sweet flowers and shades. | 0:31:00 | 0:31:05 | |
"Waited with hellish rancour imminent | 0:31:05 | 0:31:10 | |
"To intercept thy way | 0:31:10 | 0:31:12 | |
"Or send thee back | 0:31:12 | 0:31:14 | |
"Despoil'd of innocence, of faith, of bliss." | 0:31:14 | 0:31:20 | |
Mum! | 0:31:55 | 0:31:57 | |
Mum! | 0:32:07 | 0:32:08 | |
What's your name? | 0:33:50 | 0:33:52 | |
Annie Farmer. | 0:33:53 | 0:33:55 | |
Annie. | 0:33:55 | 0:33:57 | |
I knew an Annie. | 0:33:59 | 0:34:01 | |
-You from around here? -Yeah. From round here, yeah. | 0:34:04 | 0:34:09 | |
I thought we might have seen each other. | 0:34:09 | 0:34:11 | |
No, we don't know each other. | 0:34:12 | 0:34:15 | |
LOW CHATTER ON POLICE RADIO | 0:35:06 | 0:35:09 | |
It was the backfeed loop. I told you it was the backfeed loop. | 0:35:48 | 0:35:51 | |
Ah. | 0:35:51 | 0:35:53 | |
Backfeed loop, apparently. | 0:35:55 | 0:35:57 | |
Nikki and I went out for a drink last night. | 0:36:00 | 0:36:02 | |
Can't imagine what you talked about. | 0:36:03 | 0:36:07 | |
One or two, er...things did come up. | 0:36:07 | 0:36:10 | |
Why did you go to court yesterday, if you don't mind my asking? | 0:36:11 | 0:36:14 | |
How do you mean? | 0:36:14 | 0:36:16 | |
Well, we'd agreed, I thought, as you know, after the Alice Copeland thing. | 0:36:16 | 0:36:20 | |
-What, to do no more neonatal cases? -Yeah. | 0:36:20 | 0:36:23 | |
Yes, I know. But I think, in retrospect, we made a mistake. | 0:36:23 | 0:36:27 | |
OK. | 0:36:28 | 0:36:30 | |
I think we should take each case as it comes. | 0:36:30 | 0:36:32 | |
We can't fall back on a hasty decision that we made 18 months ago. | 0:36:32 | 0:36:37 | |
-The Alice Copeland case was a...a tragedy. -Of course it was. | 0:36:37 | 0:36:40 | |
-But this is a completely different case. -Right. | 0:36:40 | 0:36:43 | |
I was asked to look at the evidence, and I did, | 0:36:43 | 0:36:46 | |
and I disagreed with Dr Karamides' interpretation | 0:36:46 | 0:36:49 | |
so I took to the stand and I said as much. | 0:36:49 | 0:36:51 | |
-Yes, but... -I know how you felt. | 0:36:51 | 0:36:53 | |
And I sympathise with you. I really do. | 0:36:53 | 0:36:56 | |
But there is no conspiracy. | 0:36:56 | 0:36:58 | |
We just have to make some hard calls. | 0:36:58 | 0:37:01 | |
We can't say, "Oh, this is too controversial. | 0:37:01 | 0:37:03 | |
"We can't get involved in this." | 0:37:03 | 0:37:05 | |
We have to get involved, because that's our job, even when it's... | 0:37:05 | 0:37:10 | |
-Scary. -Yeah, even when it's scary. | 0:37:10 | 0:37:12 | |
I was going to tell you about going to court. | 0:37:16 | 0:37:18 | |
OK, forget that. But you should have told me about the tissue samples | 0:37:18 | 0:37:22 | |
she apparently stole. | 0:37:22 | 0:37:23 | |
There is a legal process that has to be followed in all these cases. | 0:37:23 | 0:37:27 | |
I wasn't allowed to. | 0:37:27 | 0:37:29 | |
You know retaining those tissue samples | 0:37:32 | 0:37:34 | |
doesn't make her a bad pathologist. | 0:37:34 | 0:37:36 | |
No, but it calls her judgment into question, don't you think? | 0:37:36 | 0:37:39 | |
FOOTSTEPS APPROACHING | 0:37:42 | 0:37:45 | |
Well? | 0:38:21 | 0:38:22 | |
Is this from you? Where did you get it? | 0:38:22 | 0:38:25 | |
I can't talk to you here. | 0:38:25 | 0:38:27 | |
This is a human bone. Where did you get this? | 0:38:27 | 0:38:29 | |
-Will you talk to me away from here? -No, absolutely not. Leo? | 0:38:29 | 0:38:32 | |
Er...it'll have to wait. I'm sorry. | 0:38:32 | 0:38:36 | |
Look, this has got to be just between the two of us. | 0:38:39 | 0:38:42 | |
What time do you finish? I'll wait. | 0:38:43 | 0:38:46 | |
I asked you where you got this from. | 0:38:46 | 0:38:48 | |
I brought it, cos I wanted to talk to you. | 0:38:49 | 0:38:53 | |
Please. | 0:38:56 | 0:38:58 | |
It's not about me. | 0:38:58 | 0:39:00 | |
It's my mum. | 0:39:00 | 0:39:02 | |
You're the only one who can help us. | 0:39:07 | 0:39:09 | |
I was afraid you weren't going to come. | 0:40:21 | 0:40:24 | |
OK, that bone you gave me, it's a proximal phalanx. | 0:40:24 | 0:40:27 | |
-That's a bone in your finger. -Right. | 0:40:27 | 0:40:29 | |
I'll run some more tests on it and then take it to the police. | 0:40:29 | 0:40:32 | |
-No. -It could be evidence of a crime. | 0:40:32 | 0:40:34 | |
You can't tell the police. | 0:40:34 | 0:40:36 | |
I don't have a choice. You don't have a choice. | 0:40:36 | 0:40:39 | |
I wish I'd never given it to you. Give it back! | 0:40:39 | 0:40:41 | |
-I can't do that. -They'll put my mum in jail! | 0:40:41 | 0:40:44 | |
Why? | 0:40:45 | 0:40:47 | |
Cos she collects them. | 0:40:47 | 0:40:50 | |
What, there are more of them? | 0:40:50 | 0:40:52 | |
Yeah. Dozens of them. | 0:40:52 | 0:40:56 | |
Well, where are they? | 0:40:57 | 0:40:59 | |
I'm not going to tell you where. | 0:40:59 | 0:41:02 | |
Can you take me to them? | 0:41:02 | 0:41:04 | |
Just you, yeah? | 0:41:06 | 0:41:09 | |
-Helen. -Hello, Leo. | 0:41:28 | 0:41:30 | |
-How did you get in here? -I lied. | 0:41:31 | 0:41:34 | |
-I said we were colleagues. -Well, we still are, I hope. | 0:41:34 | 0:41:37 | |
Not for much longer, I suspect. | 0:41:37 | 0:41:39 | |
I can't discuss disciplinary procedures, as you know. | 0:41:40 | 0:41:44 | |
Yes, I know. | 0:41:44 | 0:41:47 | |
Helen, you are a... a first-class pathologist. | 0:41:54 | 0:41:57 | |
You've done valuable work. | 0:41:57 | 0:41:59 | |
But the judicial system depends on us for a consistent judgment. | 0:41:59 | 0:42:02 | |
We can't debate our differences of opinion in open court. | 0:42:02 | 0:42:06 | |
We have to speak with one voice. | 0:42:06 | 0:42:08 | |
Even if it means ignoring inconvenient truths? | 0:42:08 | 0:42:11 | |
-According to you. -And destroying my career? | 0:42:11 | 0:42:15 | |
I disagree with your theory. So do most of your peers. | 0:42:15 | 0:42:18 | |
I brought you something. | 0:42:24 | 0:42:27 | |
Don't worry. It's not a parcel bomb. | 0:42:27 | 0:42:29 | |
It's some research. I'd like your opinion on it. | 0:42:29 | 0:42:32 | |
I've already reviewed your work on the triad. | 0:42:32 | 0:42:36 | |
This is different. | 0:42:36 | 0:42:39 | |
-I don't think it's a good idea. -I need your help, Leo. | 0:42:41 | 0:42:44 | |
We've had our differences, but you're a half-decent pathologist | 0:42:45 | 0:42:48 | |
and I know you're strong. | 0:42:48 | 0:42:51 | |
I know you'll do what's right. | 0:42:57 | 0:43:00 | |
Mum? | 0:43:51 | 0:43:53 | |
Mum? | 0:43:59 | 0:44:01 | |
Where did these come from? | 0:44:36 | 0:44:38 | |
I don't know. All over. | 0:44:38 | 0:44:41 | |
It came from Arnold Mears. | 0:44:43 | 0:44:45 | |
-I thought he was in prison. -He is. | 0:44:46 | 0:44:49 | |
She goes to him and he gives them to her | 0:44:49 | 0:44:53 | |
or tells her where to find them. | 0:44:53 | 0:44:58 | |
-I don't know. It's sick. -But why? | 0:44:58 | 0:45:01 | |
So, these bones belong to...? | 0:45:05 | 0:45:07 | |
You tell me. | 0:45:07 | 0:45:09 | |
You take 'em away with you. | 0:45:09 | 0:45:12 | |
Do your tests or whatever. Just... | 0:45:12 | 0:45:15 | |
...just get them out this house. | 0:45:17 | 0:45:19 | |
OK, but the police will want to interview you and your mother. | 0:45:19 | 0:45:23 | |
What are you doing? | 0:45:23 | 0:45:24 | |
Who's she? | 0:45:26 | 0:45:27 | |
-My name's Nikki Alexander. I... -She's a friend, Mum. | 0:45:27 | 0:45:31 | |
-I'm a pathologist. -Why did you bring her here? | 0:45:31 | 0:45:34 | |
-Get out! Out! -Mum, look. Look, Mum. | 0:45:34 | 0:45:36 | |
-She can help us. -No-one can help. You're just making things worse. | 0:45:36 | 0:45:40 | |
I've seen the bones now, Mrs Farmer. Throwing me out won't do any good. | 0:45:40 | 0:45:43 | |
Is it true that Arnold Mears has given them to you? | 0:45:45 | 0:45:47 | |
Why haven't you told anybody? | 0:45:49 | 0:45:51 | |
Because he said I shouldn't. | 0:45:51 | 0:45:53 | |
But you do know that they're human bones? | 0:45:53 | 0:45:56 | |
Course. | 0:45:56 | 0:45:57 | |
I just wanted to help. | 0:45:59 | 0:46:01 | |
Help who? | 0:46:01 | 0:46:03 | |
The families. | 0:46:03 | 0:46:06 | |
The families of those poor girls. | 0:46:08 | 0:46:10 | |
You do understand what you're charged with? | 0:46:10 | 0:46:14 | |
-You're in a lot of trouble, Arnold. -Do you understand that? | 0:46:17 | 0:46:21 | |
You look kind. | 0:46:22 | 0:46:24 | |
I like you. | 0:46:26 | 0:46:28 | |
Somebody decided he was vulnerable. | 0:46:32 | 0:46:35 | |
They said he needed help in the interviews with the detectives. | 0:46:36 | 0:46:39 | |
An appropriate adult, it's called. | 0:46:39 | 0:46:42 | |
I'd done a course to try and get a bit more money, so one day... | 0:46:42 | 0:46:48 | |
I got a call. | 0:46:48 | 0:46:50 | |
He was my first one. | 0:46:51 | 0:46:53 | |
And my last. | 0:46:53 | 0:46:55 | |
What we want to know, Arnold, about this body, | 0:46:55 | 0:47:00 | |
is why you sawed the head and arms off that poor girl. | 0:47:00 | 0:47:04 | |
-No comment. -No comment? | 0:47:06 | 0:47:09 | |
A girl of 17 is found dismembered under your workshop | 0:47:10 | 0:47:14 | |
and you can't tell us what you did? | 0:47:14 | 0:47:16 | |
Arnold. | 0:47:19 | 0:47:21 | |
Arnold, pay attention to me. | 0:47:21 | 0:47:24 | |
I need a break. | 0:47:25 | 0:47:27 | |
Arnold, you've had a break. | 0:47:27 | 0:47:30 | |
I'm starting a headache. | 0:47:30 | 0:47:32 | |
They can't talk to me if my appropriate adult isn't with me. | 0:47:41 | 0:47:45 | |
It's like we were a couple. | 0:47:45 | 0:47:48 | |
"They, hand in hand, with wand'ring steps and slow | 0:47:48 | 0:47:54 | |
"Through Eden | 0:47:54 | 0:47:57 | |
"Took their solitary way." | 0:47:57 | 0:47:59 | |
What is that? | 0:48:00 | 0:48:02 | |
That's Paradise Lost. | 0:48:02 | 0:48:05 | |
The greatest poem in the English language. | 0:48:06 | 0:48:09 | |
Thanks, Annie. | 0:48:19 | 0:48:20 | |
He really loved that poem. Read it all the way through the trial, | 0:48:26 | 0:48:29 | |
didn't listen to anything anybody said. | 0:48:29 | 0:48:32 | |
But after the trial... I don't understand. | 0:48:32 | 0:48:35 | |
Surely you didn't have to see him then? | 0:48:35 | 0:48:37 | |
The day after he was sentenced, he asked if we could meet. | 0:48:37 | 0:48:39 | |
One last time, just to say goodbye. | 0:48:39 | 0:48:42 | |
-And you went? -Well, I...I didn't want to. | 0:48:42 | 0:48:44 | |
But, um...he said he wanted to repair the damage he'd done. | 0:48:44 | 0:48:49 | |
Wanted me to help him make things better. | 0:48:51 | 0:48:55 | |
He said there were... | 0:48:57 | 0:48:59 | |
more bodies than the three he'd been tried for. | 0:48:59 | 0:49:02 | |
-How many more? -Nine. | 0:49:03 | 0:49:06 | |
Nine... | 0:49:08 | 0:49:10 | |
other girls that... that no-one knew anything about | 0:49:10 | 0:49:12 | |
and...and he wanted to tell me where they were. | 0:49:12 | 0:49:15 | |
He was going to tell me where they were buried. | 0:49:16 | 0:49:19 | |
Not straight away. | 0:49:19 | 0:49:20 | |
Um...he said he had to test me. | 0:49:20 | 0:49:24 | |
See if he could trust me. | 0:49:24 | 0:49:26 | |
He was going to give me... | 0:49:26 | 0:49:28 | |
souvenirs, he called 'em. | 0:49:28 | 0:49:31 | |
Little...bones... | 0:49:33 | 0:49:35 | |
that he... that he got from the other girls | 0:49:35 | 0:49:38 | |
he buried separately. | 0:49:38 | 0:49:40 | |
It's the mums and dads. | 0:49:42 | 0:49:44 | |
That's who I'm thinking about. | 0:49:44 | 0:49:47 | |
Wondering where their little one's buried. | 0:49:47 | 0:49:50 | |
What are you suggesting? | 0:49:51 | 0:49:53 | |
These families are in pain. | 0:49:53 | 0:49:56 | |
And you can help. | 0:49:56 | 0:49:58 | |
Why me? | 0:50:00 | 0:50:02 | |
Because you're an angel. | 0:50:02 | 0:50:04 | |
That's how it started. | 0:50:09 | 0:50:12 | |
-And you never told the police? -Tried to get her to. | 0:50:12 | 0:50:14 | |
Did he ever tell you where the bodies of the girls were? | 0:50:15 | 0:50:19 | |
No. No, never. | 0:50:19 | 0:50:21 | |
Never told her anything. | 0:50:21 | 0:50:23 | |
You made me a promise. | 0:50:25 | 0:50:27 | |
You promised me you'd tell me where those girls are. | 0:50:28 | 0:50:31 | |
A solemn promise. | 0:50:31 | 0:50:33 | |
I am keeping my promise, Angel Annie. | 0:50:34 | 0:50:37 | |
No. No, you're not. You've given me nothing. | 0:50:37 | 0:50:40 | |
I...I can't do this any more. I'm not strong enough. | 0:50:40 | 0:50:44 | |
So, just tell the police instead. | 0:50:44 | 0:50:47 | |
No. I'm not talking to them. | 0:50:47 | 0:50:51 | |
It has to be you. | 0:50:51 | 0:50:54 | |
If the police get involved, those families will stay in hell for ever. | 0:50:54 | 0:51:01 | |
He said I had to wait, said I mustn't tell. | 0:51:01 | 0:51:05 | |
And now I have. | 0:51:08 | 0:51:10 | |
-If you'll let me take the bones... -No, no. | 0:51:12 | 0:51:16 | |
-...then I can test them... -Mum. | 0:51:16 | 0:51:17 | |
Find out whose they are. You can give the families some peace, | 0:51:17 | 0:51:21 | |
even if we don't locate where the bodies are buried. | 0:51:21 | 0:51:24 | |
And what if he finds out? | 0:51:24 | 0:51:27 | |
Arnold Mears need never know. | 0:51:27 | 0:51:29 | |
-Really? -I think so. | 0:51:29 | 0:51:32 | |
Then you wouldn't have to keep going to see him. | 0:51:32 | 0:51:35 | |
EXHALES | 0:52:28 | 0:52:30 | |
"Farewell, happy fields | 0:52:43 | 0:52:46 | |
"Where joy forever dwells | 0:52:46 | 0:52:49 | |
"Hail, horrors Hail, Infernal world! | 0:52:49 | 0:52:52 | |
"And thou, profoundest Hell Receive thy new possessor..." | 0:52:52 | 0:52:57 | |
CLINKING | 0:53:01 | 0:53:02 | |
SAWING | 0:53:51 | 0:53:53 | |
"Be this, or aught Than this more secret now design'd | 0:53:59 | 0:54:04 | |
"I haste To know. | 0:54:04 | 0:54:07 | |
"And, this once known, shall soon return | 0:54:07 | 0:54:12 | |
"And bring thee to the place where thou and Death | 0:54:12 | 0:54:14 | |
"Shall dwell at ease..." | 0:54:14 | 0:54:17 | |
Very good, Arnold. | 0:54:20 | 0:54:21 | |
"And bring ye to the place where thou and Death | 0:54:23 | 0:54:28 | |
"Shall dwell at ease..." | 0:54:28 | 0:54:30 | |
You take such an interest in me, Doctor. | 0:54:30 | 0:54:34 | |
Is that professional? | 0:54:34 | 0:54:36 | |
Or personal? | 0:54:36 | 0:54:38 | |
Of course, I forget. | 0:54:54 | 0:54:56 | |
You're intimate with all your patients. | 0:54:56 | 0:55:00 | |
-Did you feel anything? -When? | 0:55:04 | 0:55:07 | |
When... | 0:55:07 | 0:55:09 | |
With the women. | 0:55:10 | 0:55:11 | |
You mean, when I cut them? | 0:55:11 | 0:55:14 | |
Yes. | 0:55:14 | 0:55:15 | |
Did I feel anything? | 0:55:17 | 0:55:20 | |
Do you? | 0:55:22 | 0:55:23 | |
GLASS CLINKS | 0:55:53 | 0:55:55 | |
"...Hail, horrors! Hail, Infernal world! | 0:55:55 | 0:56:00 | |
"And thou, profoundest Hell Receive thy new possessor | 0:56:00 | 0:56:04 | |
"One who brings A mind not to be chang'd by place or time | 0:56:04 | 0:56:09 | |
"The mind is its own place | 0:56:10 | 0:56:12 | |
"And in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell | 0:56:12 | 0:56:17 | |
"A Hell of Heaven..." | 0:56:17 | 0:56:19 | |
Mears told Annie that he's killed 12 girls altogether. | 0:56:34 | 0:56:37 | |
And you believe him? | 0:56:37 | 0:56:38 | |
I don't know, but it's worth finding out more, isn't it? | 0:56:38 | 0:56:41 | |
But if you won't help, he will destroy my mum. | 0:56:41 | 0:56:45 | |
She came to see me last night. | 0:56:46 | 0:56:48 | |
"And bring ye to the place where thou and Death | 0:56:50 | 0:56:53 | |
"Shall dwell at ease..." | 0:56:53 | 0:56:55 | |
Paradise Lost. | 0:56:55 | 0:56:57 | |
She was very interested in Arnold Mears. | 0:56:57 | 0:57:00 | |
She interviewed him for 40 hours. | 0:57:00 | 0:57:03 | |
Do you think you remember her? | 0:57:03 | 0:57:04 | |
You didn't tell him about Tina, did you? | 0:57:07 | 0:57:09 | |
We were just glad to put him away and forget about him. | 0:57:09 | 0:57:13 | |
And I suggest you do the same. | 0:57:14 | 0:57:16 | |
This is a scan of Arnold Mears's brain. | 0:57:16 | 0:57:18 | |
-Wow, look at that. -Scarring. | 0:57:18 | 0:57:20 | |
You're not answering my calls, Annie. Are you bored of me? | 0:57:20 | 0:57:24 | |
Some women probably do find you interesting. | 0:57:24 | 0:57:28 | |
Exciting. | 0:57:28 | 0:57:30 | |
Do you? | 0:57:30 | 0:57:31 | |
# Testator silens | 0:57:33 | 0:57:40 | |
# Costestes e spiritu | 0:57:40 | 0:57:47 | |
# Silentium... # | 0:57:47 | 0:57:55 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:57:55 | 0:57:58 |