Pennod 4 Cadw Cwmni Gyda John Hardy
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-Subtitles | 0:00:00 | 0:00:00 | |
-Subtitles - -Subtitles | 0:00:00 | 0:00:02 | |
-Welcome to Cadw Cwmni... | 0:00:19 | 0:00:21 | |
-..the programme which proves -we all have a story to tell. | 0:00:21 | 0:00:25 | |
-Tonight -we wander from Sudan to Kosovo. | 0:00:25 | 0:00:28 | |
-My first guest -has witnessed the after-effects... | 0:00:28 | 0:00:32 | |
-..of one of the most -atrocious wars of recent times. | 0:00:32 | 0:00:36 | |
-What we saw happening in Kosovo... | 0:00:37 | 0:00:40 | |
-..in 1998 and 1999 -when NATO intervened... | 0:00:40 | 0:00:43 | |
-..was the outcome of bloody -conflicts during the 1990s... | 0:00:44 | 0:00:48 | |
-..which led to the disintegration -of the former Yugoslavia. | 0:00:48 | 0:00:52 | |
-What we saw in the 1990s -and possibly the 1980s... | 0:00:52 | 0:00:56 | |
-..were Serbian politicians -using Kosovo as a catalyst... | 0:00:56 | 0:01:02 | |
-..to incite a nationalistic -uprising among the Serbian people. | 0:01:02 | 0:01:07 | |
-Figures like Slobodan Milosevic -came to the fore... | 0:01:07 | 0:01:11 | |
-..whose goal it was -to rid Kosovo of Albanians. | 0:01:11 | 0:01:15 | |
-The outcome of that conflict... | 0:01:15 | 0:01:18 | |
-..saw Milosevic -completely lose control in Serbia... | 0:01:18 | 0:01:23 | |
-..less than a year -after the bombing campaign. | 0:01:25 | 0:01:29 | |
-Milosevic was subsequently -detained, appearing at The Hague... | 0:01:29 | 0:01:34 | |
-..where he later died. | 0:01:34 | 0:01:36 | |
-He was on trial at the time. | 0:01:36 | 0:01:39 | |
-We've also seen Serbia changing... | 0:01:40 | 0:01:42 | |
-..and moving away from the Serbia -that existed in the 1990s... | 0:01:42 | 0:01:47 | |
-..and embroiled in the civil war. | 0:01:47 | 0:01:49 | |
-Now Serbia is far more liberated... | 0:01:50 | 0:01:52 | |
-..and has a bigger involvement -in the international community. | 0:01:52 | 0:01:57 | |
-One who worked in Kosovo, -following the Balkan conflicts... | 0:01:58 | 0:02:02 | |
-..is my first guest. | 0:02:02 | 0:02:04 | |
-Richard Pritchard, welcome. -What initially led you to Kosovo? | 0:02:05 | 0:02:09 | |
-I was working -for the police service in Holyhead. | 0:02:09 | 0:02:13 | |
-I was a detective sergeant. | 0:02:14 | 0:02:17 | |
-A telex was sent -to the police station at the time. | 0:02:17 | 0:02:22 | |
-There was no such thing -as email back then. | 0:02:22 | 0:02:25 | |
-It said that the Foreign Office... | 0:02:26 | 0:02:29 | |
-..was preparing to send teams... | 0:02:29 | 0:02:32 | |
-..of forensic police officers... | 0:02:32 | 0:02:35 | |
-..to investigate the accusation... | 0:02:35 | 0:02:37 | |
-..that people -were being murdered and buried. | 0:02:38 | 0:02:41 | |
-I thought, -well, I've done plenty of courses. | 0:02:43 | 0:02:46 | |
-I might be able to put some of what -I'd learnt to good use out there... | 0:02:46 | 0:02:52 | |
-..and be of assistance -to the families. | 0:02:52 | 0:02:55 | |
-So essentially, -you went there to look for graves? | 0:02:56 | 0:02:59 | |
-Yes, graves and bodies. | 0:03:00 | 0:03:02 | |
-What was the purpose -of you going there? | 0:03:02 | 0:03:06 | |
-Did you go there to find bodies or -to confirm people had been killed? | 0:03:06 | 0:03:10 | |
-To prove they'd been killed. | 0:03:11 | 0:03:13 | |
-We didn't know -who had killed them... | 0:03:14 | 0:03:16 | |
-..but we knew -they'd been unlawfully killed. | 0:03:17 | 0:03:20 | |
-Was it difficult finding the graves? | 0:03:20 | 0:03:22 | |
-Was it difficult finding the graves? - -Teams before us... | 0:03:22 | 0:03:24 | |
-..had questioned local people... | 0:03:24 | 0:03:28 | |
-..and were able to tell us -where the graves were located. | 0:03:29 | 0:03:32 | |
-What was the next step? | 0:03:33 | 0:03:36 | |
-The Royal Engineers' -bomb disposal team was deployed. | 0:03:37 | 0:03:41 | |
-The next process... | 0:03:41 | 0:03:44 | |
-..involved digging up the graves... | 0:03:44 | 0:03:47 | |
-..until we found a body or bodies -that might have been buried in them. | 0:03:47 | 0:03:52 | |
-Family members -were also searching for loved ones. | 0:03:52 | 0:03:57 | |
-It must have been very emotional. | 0:03:58 | 0:04:00 | |
-Yes, in some areas -the families had buried the bodies. | 0:04:00 | 0:04:04 | |
-They'd found the bodies -and buried them. | 0:04:04 | 0:04:07 | |
-They wanted to be present -when we recovered them. | 0:04:07 | 0:04:11 | |
-We had to work closely with them... | 0:04:11 | 0:04:14 | |
-..to get them on our side. | 0:04:14 | 0:04:16 | |
-How important was it for them -to prove they had been killed? | 0:04:17 | 0:04:21 | |
-It was a major issue for them. | 0:04:21 | 0:04:23 | |
-They wanted to prove that -their sons, daughters or husbands... | 0:04:23 | 0:04:27 | |
-..had been killed by the Serbs... | 0:04:28 | 0:04:31 | |
-..and wanted the world to know -that they'd been killed. | 0:04:31 | 0:04:35 | |
-How were they killed? -Had they been shot? | 0:04:35 | 0:04:38 | |
-Had they been bombed? | 0:04:39 | 0:04:41 | |
-When you spoke to the natives... | 0:04:41 | 0:04:45 | |
-..they said Serbs -bombed the villages... | 0:04:45 | 0:04:48 | |
-..and as villagers were fleeing, -snipers were gunning them down... | 0:04:49 | 0:04:53 | |
-..and leaving them for dead. | 0:04:54 | 0:04:56 | |
-Was it difficult -tracing the families of the dead? | 0:04:56 | 0:05:00 | |
-You must've uncovered a grave, -not knowing who was buried? | 0:05:01 | 0:05:05 | |
-We had no idea who had been buried -in some of the graves. | 0:05:05 | 0:05:09 | |
-Unfortunately we had to follow -the same procedure... | 0:05:09 | 0:05:14 | |
-..of returning the corpse -to the hospital for a post-mortem. | 0:05:14 | 0:05:18 | |
-But before -the post-mortem took place... | 0:05:19 | 0:05:23 | |
-..we removed the corpse's clothes... | 0:05:23 | 0:05:26 | |
-..washed them by hand -in these large tubs... | 0:05:26 | 0:05:30 | |
-..laid them out -and photographed them. | 0:05:30 | 0:05:33 | |
-We compiled -an album of photographs... | 0:05:33 | 0:05:37 | |
-..to see if anyone -recognized the clothes. | 0:05:37 | 0:05:39 | |
-There might have been a patch -that a mother had sewn. | 0:05:40 | 0:05:44 | |
-That's how we tried to find out. | 0:05:44 | 0:05:45 | |
-That's how we tried to find out. - -How long were you there? | 0:05:45 | 0:05:47 | |
-Five weeks in total. | 0:05:48 | 0:05:49 | |
-Five weeks in total. - -Did they restrict you to five weeks? | 0:05:49 | 0:05:53 | |
-They thought five weeks was adequate -for the work we were doing. | 0:05:53 | 0:05:58 | |
-How did you cope with your emotions? | 0:05:58 | 0:06:02 | |
-There were 16 of us in all who -were police officers and doctors. | 0:06:04 | 0:06:09 | |
-At night we'd go out for a meal... | 0:06:09 | 0:06:14 | |
-..and get it out of our systems -by discussing and talking about it. | 0:06:14 | 0:06:20 | |
-I presume for that kind of work... | 0:06:20 | 0:06:22 | |
-..you have to try and be -emotionally detached? | 0:06:23 | 0:06:26 | |
-Like any doctor or nurse, -you can't get emotionally attached. | 0:06:27 | 0:06:31 | |
-I'm sure -it was unavoidable at times. | 0:06:31 | 0:06:34 | |
-Yes, there was one time when we were -on a mountainside outside Pristina. | 0:06:34 | 0:06:39 | |
-An old man approached us and said... | 0:06:39 | 0:06:43 | |
-.."That is my nephew buried there. -I buried him." | 0:06:46 | 0:06:50 | |
-I asked him -what had happened to him. | 0:06:50 | 0:06:53 | |
-He told me the Serbs -had infiltrated the village... | 0:06:53 | 0:06:57 | |
-..shot him in the back and as he -went down, they broke his neck... | 0:06:57 | 0:07:01 | |
-..with the butt of the rifle. | 0:07:01 | 0:07:04 | |
-"I've got a bit of his skull here," -he said. | 0:07:04 | 0:07:07 | |
-"That's how we remember him by." | 0:07:07 | 0:07:10 | |
-I said, "When we -take the body to the mortuary... | 0:07:10 | 0:07:14 | |
-"..for the post-mortem... | 0:07:14 | 0:07:16 | |
-"..we have to try -and identify this body. | 0:07:16 | 0:07:19 | |
-"If I can have -that piece of skull from you... | 0:07:19 | 0:07:22 | |
-"..we might be physically able -to fit that into his skull... | 0:07:23 | 0:07:27 | |
-"..and positively identify -this person as your nephew." | 0:07:27 | 0:07:31 | |
-He said, "Yes, by all means, -but I must have it back." | 0:07:31 | 0:07:37 | |
-We took it from him, -took his photograph... | 0:07:37 | 0:07:40 | |
-..and took the body -back to the hospital. | 0:07:41 | 0:07:43 | |
-The post-mortem -was carried out the following day. | 0:07:44 | 0:07:48 | |
-The skull fragment from -the old gentleman fitted perfectly. | 0:07:48 | 0:07:54 | |
-We then had to drive -back up the mountain... | 0:07:54 | 0:07:59 | |
-..to return the skull fragment. | 0:07:59 | 0:08:02 | |
-He was very grateful. | 0:08:02 | 0:08:04 | |
-Once they'd buried their loved ones, -did they flee the village... | 0:08:04 | 0:08:09 | |
-..only to return later? | 0:08:09 | 0:08:12 | |
-They were frightened -and you could tell... | 0:08:12 | 0:08:15 | |
-..if family members themselves -had buried the body or the Serbs. | 0:08:16 | 0:08:20 | |
-It was customary for the family -to use the Drasa method. | 0:08:21 | 0:08:25 | |
-They'd dig the hole for the grave... | 0:08:25 | 0:08:27 | |
-..place the corpse inside -and lay wooden planks across it... | 0:08:28 | 0:08:33 | |
-..so that there was -enough space around the corpse. | 0:08:33 | 0:08:36 | |
-They claimed -it was for the spirit to circulate. | 0:08:40 | 0:08:43 | |
-For the spirit to circulate? | 0:08:44 | 0:08:45 | |
-For the spirit to circulate? - -Yes, that's what they thought. | 0:08:45 | 0:08:47 | |
-The Serbs just -threw the bodies into the graves. | 0:08:47 | 0:08:53 | |
-What did you do -with the bodies in Kosovo... | 0:08:53 | 0:08:57 | |
-..once you'd recovered them? | 0:08:58 | 0:09:00 | |
-We took them to the mortuary -and locked them in... | 0:09:00 | 0:09:03 | |
-..to make sure -they weren't tampered with. | 0:09:04 | 0:09:07 | |
-The following day, -the bodies were collected... | 0:09:07 | 0:09:10 | |
-..and they -were taken to the post-mortem. | 0:09:11 | 0:09:14 | |
-The pathologist -would register the body... | 0:09:14 | 0:09:17 | |
-..and each corpse -had its own number. | 0:09:18 | 0:09:20 | |
-They were identified -by their numbers. | 0:09:20 | 0:09:24 | |
-As soon as -the post-mortem was carried out... | 0:09:24 | 0:09:28 | |
-..we took the corpse -to a refrigerated container... | 0:09:29 | 0:09:32 | |
-..outside the hospital... | 0:09:33 | 0:09:35 | |
-..for the family -or the Red Crescent to collect it. | 0:09:35 | 0:09:39 | |
-In terms of the bodies -you recovered... | 0:09:39 | 0:09:42 | |
-..what percentage of those -had been murdered? | 0:09:42 | 0:09:46 | |
-We recovered 55 bodies in all. | 0:09:46 | 0:09:52 | |
-Of those 55... | 0:09:52 | 0:09:54 | |
-..we proved 44 of them -had been murdered. | 0:09:54 | 0:09:57 | |
-The other 11 couldn't be proven due -to the condition of their bodies. | 0:09:57 | 0:10:02 | |
-They were too burnt and decomposed. | 0:10:02 | 0:10:05 | |
-Taking into account -your experiences... | 0:10:06 | 0:10:09 | |
-..does it surprise you what one man -is capable of doing to another? | 0:10:09 | 0:10:13 | |
-No, it's horrific -what man is capable of. | 0:10:14 | 0:10:17 | |
-It's awful -what one man can do his fellow man. | 0:10:17 | 0:10:20 | |
-The Serbs fought the Albanians. | 0:10:20 | 0:10:24 | |
-They had been living in harmony -in the same village... | 0:10:26 | 0:10:30 | |
-..and then, suddenly, -they started killing each other... | 0:10:30 | 0:10:34 | |
-..and burning each other. | 0:10:34 | 0:10:36 | |
-..and burning each other. - -Would you go back? | 0:10:36 | 0:10:37 | |
-Yes. | 0:10:38 | 0:10:39 | |
-Yes. - -Do you regret... | 0:10:39 | 0:10:41 | |
-..not having -more than five weeks there? | 0:10:41 | 0:10:45 | |
-It took five weeks just to -familiarize yourself with the work. | 0:10:45 | 0:10:49 | |
-It took time -to do the job correctly. | 0:10:50 | 0:10:52 | |
-I could have spent -four months out there. | 0:10:52 | 0:10:56 | |
-Do you think perhaps you -would've become hardened to it... | 0:10:56 | 0:11:00 | |
-..if you'd stayed for longer? | 0:11:01 | 0:11:03 | |
-Yes, perhaps so. | 0:11:03 | 0:11:05 | |
-That kind of work would definitely -take its toll on you by the end. | 0:11:06 | 0:11:10 | |
-You're dealing with bodies -and grieving families. | 0:11:10 | 0:11:16 | |
-Anglesey's a long way from Kosovo! | 0:11:16 | 0:11:19 | |
-Just a bit! | 0:11:19 | 0:11:21 | |
-But every day was worth it. | 0:11:21 | 0:11:24 | |
-Glad to hear it. | 0:11:25 | 0:11:26 | |
-Thank you -for sharing your story with me. | 0:11:27 | 0:11:31 | |
-Thank you for the invitation. | 0:11:31 | 0:11:33 | |
-Time for a break now, -but when we return... | 0:11:34 | 0:11:37 | |
-..we're travelling -from Kosovo to Sudan... | 0:11:37 | 0:11:40 | |
-..to hear from a man -who was taken hostage out there. | 0:11:40 | 0:11:44 | |
-Join me in two minutes. | 0:11:44 | 0:11:46 | |
-. | 0:11:46 | 0:11:47 | |
-Subtitles | 0:11:51 | 0:11:51 | |
-Subtitles - -Subtitles | 0:11:51 | 0:11:53 | |
-Welcome back to Cadw Cwmni. | 0:11:53 | 0:11:56 | |
-We've already heard about Glyn -Pritchard's experiences in Kosovo. | 0:11:56 | 0:12:01 | |
-My next guest is also familiar with -dangers overseas and civil wars. | 0:12:01 | 0:12:06 | |
-What we saw -at the beginning of 1955... | 0:12:06 | 0:12:10 | |
-..was a period of instability in -Sudan which has lasted until now. | 0:12:11 | 0:12:16 | |
-What happened in 1955... | 0:12:17 | 0:12:18 | |
-..was the outcome -of a drawn-out process... | 0:12:19 | 0:12:22 | |
-..for Sudan's independence. | 0:12:22 | 0:12:24 | |
-It was also the outcome of events... | 0:12:24 | 0:12:27 | |
-..during -the Anglo-Egyptian occupation... | 0:12:27 | 0:12:31 | |
-..which lasted from -the end of the 19th century... | 0:12:31 | 0:12:34 | |
-..to Sudan's independence in 1956. | 0:12:35 | 0:12:37 | |
-Egypt and Britain were competing -for dominance over the Sudanese. | 0:12:37 | 0:12:43 | |
-Sudan itself, -especially during the 1950s... | 0:12:44 | 0:12:48 | |
-..was an archaic province -of the Ottoman Empire. | 0:12:48 | 0:12:52 | |
-Hundreds of thousands were killed -in the Sudanese War of the 1960s. | 0:12:52 | 0:12:57 | |
-It was a ferocious war. | 0:12:57 | 0:13:01 | |
-This, in effect.. | 0:13:01 | 0:13:03 | |
-..shaped the politics of Sudan, -not only in the 1960s... | 0:13:03 | 0:13:07 | |
-..but throughout -the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s. | 0:13:07 | 0:13:11 | |
-My next guest has been to Sudan -as well as many other countries. | 0:13:11 | 0:13:15 | |
-Originally from Llanon... | 0:13:15 | 0:13:17 | |
-..he's travelled -to more countries than the Pope! | 0:13:17 | 0:13:21 | |
-John Lewis, welcome. | 0:13:21 | 0:13:23 | |
-Let's begin with Sudan. -What kind of country is it? | 0:13:24 | 0:13:28 | |
-It was once -the largest country in Africa... | 0:13:28 | 0:13:31 | |
-..covering -almost a million square miles. | 0:13:31 | 0:13:34 | |
-Today it's divided -into South Sudan and Sudan. | 0:13:34 | 0:13:38 | |
-I was based in Darfur, -where I conducted the survey. | 0:13:38 | 0:13:43 | |
-It's a simple -and obvious question... | 0:13:43 | 0:13:46 | |
-..but what's a man -from West Wales doing in Sudan? | 0:13:46 | 0:13:51 | |
-I was an engineer -with the geophysics team. | 0:13:51 | 0:13:57 | |
-What were you -looking for in particular? | 0:13:58 | 0:14:01 | |
-Minerals - gold, molybdenum... | 0:14:02 | 0:14:04 | |
-..cobalt, copper. | 0:14:04 | 0:14:07 | |
-But we were looking -for subterranean water in Sudan. | 0:14:07 | 0:14:13 | |
-Enormous lakes beneath the desert. | 0:14:13 | 0:14:16 | |
-The Sudanese War... | 0:14:17 | 0:14:19 | |
-..is what we think about -when the country is mentioned. | 0:14:19 | 0:14:23 | |
-What was the situation like -when you were there? | 0:14:24 | 0:14:27 | |
-It was relatively quiet when -we began the survey in January. | 0:14:27 | 0:14:31 | |
-By the end of May... | 0:14:31 | 0:14:33 | |
-..we heard on the radio... | 0:14:34 | 0:14:37 | |
-..that there was -civil unrest in Khartoum. | 0:14:37 | 0:14:41 | |
-Suddenly, we were engulfed -by about 500 soldiers. | 0:14:41 | 0:14:46 | |
-Essentially, what they -were looking for was transport. | 0:14:47 | 0:14:51 | |
-We had four Land Rovers, -so they held us at gunpoint... | 0:14:51 | 0:14:57 | |
-..for another fortnight. | 0:14:57 | 0:15:00 | |
-About half of them -disappeared after that. | 0:15:00 | 0:15:03 | |
-They took three Land Rovers... | 0:15:03 | 0:15:06 | |
-..and siphoned the fuel -from our vehicle. | 0:15:06 | 0:15:09 | |
-You've just told me, in passing... | 0:15:09 | 0:15:12 | |
-..that 500 soldiers engulfed you. | 0:15:12 | 0:15:14 | |
-You were held hostage -for a fortnight in the desert? | 0:15:15 | 0:15:19 | |
-Yes, to begin with, and then -half the regiment went away... | 0:15:19 | 0:15:24 | |
-..leaving one captain behind. | 0:15:25 | 0:15:27 | |
-They took most of the food, but we -had some left and a little water. | 0:15:27 | 0:15:32 | |
-Was there ever a time -when you feared for your life? | 0:15:33 | 0:15:36 | |
-Yes, within the first fortnight... | 0:15:37 | 0:15:39 | |
-..because they were very nervous. | 0:15:39 | 0:15:44 | |
-Many of the soldiers -were uneducated. | 0:15:44 | 0:15:49 | |
-They were young recruits. | 0:15:50 | 0:15:53 | |
-You weren't sure -what was going to happen. | 0:15:53 | 0:15:56 | |
-The three captains spoke English. | 0:15:56 | 0:15:59 | |
-Two of them had left... | 0:16:01 | 0:16:03 | |
-..but the one who was in charge -of the other half was unfriendly. | 0:16:04 | 0:16:09 | |
-It becomes -a psychological game then. | 0:16:09 | 0:16:14 | |
-You're trying not to upset anyone... | 0:16:14 | 0:16:18 | |
-..and you're -speaking to them politely... | 0:16:18 | 0:16:21 | |
-..and possibly -sympathizing with them... | 0:16:22 | 0:16:25 | |
-..just to keep them on your side. | 0:16:25 | 0:16:28 | |
-As time went on - -four weeks, five weeks... | 0:16:28 | 0:16:33 | |
-..we had to -ration the food and water... | 0:16:33 | 0:16:37 | |
-..not knowing how long -we were going to be there... | 0:16:37 | 0:16:41 | |
-..and all of a sudden they fled. | 0:16:41 | 0:16:43 | |
-I woke up one morning -and they'd gone. | 0:16:44 | 0:16:46 | |
-They'd all gone, -along with the natives we'd hired. | 0:16:46 | 0:16:50 | |
-We hired 50 of them -and they'd gone too. | 0:16:50 | 0:16:53 | |
-There were only four of us left. | 0:16:54 | 0:16:56 | |
-Myself, an engineer, two -geophysicists and one geologist. | 0:17:00 | 0:17:05 | |
-So you've gone from -a fortnight of oppression... | 0:17:05 | 0:17:08 | |
-..to waking up one morning -with only four of you left? | 0:17:09 | 0:17:12 | |
-Did you have any food? | 0:17:12 | 0:17:14 | |
-They took all the guns, -so we couldn't hunt for food. | 0:17:15 | 0:17:20 | |
-There was guinea fowl out there -but we had no way of hunting it. | 0:17:20 | 0:17:26 | |
-There was about -three gallons of water left... | 0:17:26 | 0:17:30 | |
-..and five or six tins -of meat or whatever. | 0:17:30 | 0:17:36 | |
-What do you do in that situation? | 0:17:36 | 0:17:39 | |
-You're in the middle of nowhere. | 0:17:39 | 0:17:41 | |
-Did you have a Land Rover? | 0:17:41 | 0:17:43 | |
-There was one Land Rover left but -they'd siphoned the fuel from it. | 0:17:44 | 0:17:48 | |
-So you couldn't ration since you -didn't know how long you'd be there? | 0:17:48 | 0:17:54 | |
-We tried to ration, -but six weeks went by... | 0:17:54 | 0:17:59 | |
-..and I'd lost two stone in weight. | 0:17:59 | 0:18:02 | |
-The usual routine was for us -to return every three weeks... | 0:18:02 | 0:18:08 | |
-..and go to -the embassy's library in El-Fashir. | 0:18:08 | 0:18:13 | |
-We became friendly -with the librarian. | 0:18:13 | 0:18:17 | |
-She threw a party every three weeks. | 0:18:17 | 0:18:20 | |
-Five weeks had gone by and she -couldn't understand where we were. | 0:18:20 | 0:18:24 | |
-She'd heard there was unrest, -so she raised the alarm... | 0:18:25 | 0:18:29 | |
-..and informed the ambassador -in Khartoum who contacted our base. | 0:18:29 | 0:18:34 | |
-Our boss, a fellow engineer... | 0:18:35 | 0:18:38 | |
-..then looked at the survey plan. | 0:18:38 | 0:18:42 | |
-He had the same copy as us... | 0:18:42 | 0:18:45 | |
-..and knew something was wrong -when we didn't return. | 0:18:45 | 0:18:49 | |
-The government had -another battalion in El-Fashir... | 0:18:49 | 0:18:54 | |
-..and it sent them to search for us. | 0:18:55 | 0:18:57 | |
-They had an idea -where to look for us... | 0:18:57 | 0:19:01 | |
-..in, say, Abyad or Amcadada... | 0:19:01 | 0:19:04 | |
-..but it was 200 miles away. | 0:19:05 | 0:19:07 | |
-When they found us, -we'd finished the food and water... | 0:19:07 | 0:19:12 | |
-..and we were draining the -radiator water from the Land Rover. | 0:19:12 | 0:19:17 | |
-So you were drinking radiator water? | 0:19:17 | 0:19:19 | |
-So you were drinking radiator water? - -Yes, we used our shirts as sieves... | 0:19:19 | 0:19:23 | |
-..to remove the majority -of the impurities from the water. | 0:19:23 | 0:19:29 | |
-How long would you have survived -if they hadn't turned up? | 0:19:29 | 0:19:33 | |
-I'd say less than a week. | 0:19:33 | 0:19:35 | |
-Maybe four or five days. | 0:19:35 | 0:19:39 | |
-It's so hot out there, -you perspire quite a bit. | 0:19:39 | 0:19:43 | |
-It was around -45-50 degrees Celsius in the heat. | 0:19:43 | 0:19:48 | |
-It was sweltering. | 0:19:48 | 0:19:50 | |
-Didn't you think of walking? | 0:19:51 | 0:19:53 | |
-Didn't you think of walking? - -That's the worst thing you can do. | 0:19:53 | 0:19:55 | |
-You're much safer staying with the -Land Rover or something similar. | 0:19:56 | 0:20:00 | |
-A search and rescue mission is -more likely to spot a Land Rover... | 0:20:01 | 0:20:05 | |
-..than the body of a man, -for example. | 0:20:05 | 0:20:09 | |
-You can live without food -but water is vital. | 0:20:09 | 0:20:12 | |
-Especially in that heat. | 0:20:13 | 0:20:15 | |
-Water is essential. | 0:20:15 | 0:20:17 | |
-Once the radiator water -had run out... | 0:20:17 | 0:20:21 | |
-..we would've -had to drink our own urine. | 0:20:21 | 0:20:24 | |
-In that kind of heat... | 0:20:24 | 0:20:26 | |
-..you try to retain as much water -in the body as possible... | 0:20:26 | 0:20:30 | |
-..otherwise fatigue sets in... | 0:20:31 | 0:20:34 | |
-..and you become disorientated. | 0:20:34 | 0:20:38 | |
-I wanted to ask you about -the mental strain you were under... | 0:20:38 | 0:20:42 | |
-..because it's too hot -in that situation to do anything. | 0:20:43 | 0:20:46 | |
-All you can do is sit there. | 0:20:47 | 0:20:48 | |
-All you can do is sit there. - -Move as little as possible... | 0:20:48 | 0:20:50 | |
-..to prevent perspiration, which -removes water from the body. | 0:20:50 | 0:20:55 | |
-You also lose salt. | 0:20:55 | 0:20:57 | |
-One of the causes of fatigue -is lack of salt in the body... | 0:20:57 | 0:21:01 | |
-..in those kinds of temperatures. | 0:21:01 | 0:21:03 | |
-You've led an interesting life. | 0:21:04 | 0:21:06 | |
-You've been lucky -to return from some places. | 0:21:06 | 0:21:09 | |
-Where were you -during the crash landing? | 0:21:09 | 0:21:12 | |
-That was in the Congo. -I was working in Lubumbashi. | 0:21:12 | 0:21:16 | |
-It's situated at the base of -the Congo in the Katanga province. | 0:21:16 | 0:21:20 | |
-Everything was going well. | 0:21:21 | 0:21:23 | |
-We flew out of Jo'burg. | 0:21:23 | 0:21:25 | |
-20 minutes into the flight... | 0:21:27 | 0:21:30 | |
-..the captain was being sick in -the toilet at the back of the plane. | 0:21:30 | 0:21:35 | |
-He was very ill - -he had sickness and diarrhoea. | 0:21:35 | 0:21:39 | |
-The co-pilot was a young man. | 0:21:40 | 0:21:43 | |
-One of the engines -started spluttering. | 0:21:43 | 0:21:48 | |
-He shouted across the plane... | 0:21:48 | 0:21:50 | |
-..that he had to disconnect -the propeller from the engine. | 0:21:50 | 0:21:55 | |
-They call it feathering the engine. | 0:21:55 | 0:21:58 | |
-He made a mistake. | 0:22:00 | 0:22:02 | |
-He'd feathered the wrong engine. | 0:22:04 | 0:22:09 | |
-We were only 400 feet in the air -at that point... | 0:22:09 | 0:22:13 | |
-..and nosedived. | 0:22:13 | 0:22:16 | |
-Fortunately -we landed in a clearing... | 0:22:16 | 0:22:21 | |
-..in the long grass. | 0:22:21 | 0:22:24 | |
-The plane -was bouncing off the ground. | 0:22:24 | 0:22:29 | |
-It then came to a standstill. | 0:22:29 | 0:22:33 | |
-A piece of kit -had fallen on my head. | 0:22:33 | 0:22:36 | |
-A lump was -the only injury I sustained. | 0:22:36 | 0:22:41 | |
-Then it fell completely silent. | 0:22:41 | 0:22:43 | |
-The skipper was in pain. -Something had happened to him. | 0:22:44 | 0:22:49 | |
-Everybody disembarked the aeroplane. | 0:22:50 | 0:22:52 | |
-The only thing -that was working was the HF radio. | 0:22:52 | 0:22:56 | |
-We radioed Lubumbashi and -they sent a helicopter to rescue us. | 0:22:56 | 0:23:01 | |
-Thank you very much, John, -for joining me on Cadw Cwmni. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:05 | |
-I've enjoyed hearing your stories. -Thank you very much. | 0:23:06 | 0:23:10 | |
-You're very welcome. | 0:23:10 | 0:23:12 | |
-That's all for tonight. -I'd like to thank both my guests. | 0:23:12 | 0:23:16 | |
-If you have a story to tell, -please get in touch. | 0:23:17 | 0:23:20 | |
-S4C provides the perfect platform -for your interesting stories. | 0:23:20 | 0:23:26 | |
-Until next time, -from me, John Hardy, goodbye. | 0:23:26 | 0:23:29 | |
-S4C Subtitles by Adnod Cyf. | 0:23:48 | 0:23:50 | |
-. | 0:23:50 | 0:23:50 |