Pennod 3 Cadw Cwmni Gyda John Hardy
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-Subtitles | 0:00:00 | 0:00:00 | |
-Subtitles - -Subtitles | 0:00:00 | 0:00:02 | |
-Welcome to Cadw Cwmni. | 0:00:20 | 0:00:21 | |
-Everyone has a story to tell... | 0:00:22 | 0:00:24 | |
-..and I'm here to provide -a platform for that story. | 0:00:24 | 0:00:27 | |
-Tonight, we recall -two historical events. | 0:00:27 | 0:00:30 | |
-In Part 2, we visit Tiananmen Square -in Beijing... | 0:00:30 | 0:00:33 | |
-..but first, with the Olympic Games -still fresh in the mind... | 0:00:34 | 0:00:38 | |
-..I'm taking you back to -the tragic events at Munich in 1972. | 0:00:38 | 0:00:43 | |
-The Munich Olympic Games -in 1972 were important... | 0:00:43 | 0:00:47 | |
-..because they were the first -held in Germany... | 0:00:47 | 0:00:51 | |
-..since The Second World War. | 0:00:51 | 0:00:53 | |
-They were seen as a statement -by the German government... | 0:00:53 | 0:00:58 | |
-..that they were back on -the international stage once more. | 0:00:58 | 0:01:03 | |
-Their intention was to host -a friendly Olympic Games... | 0:01:03 | 0:01:07 | |
-..but the Germans weren't ready -for any kind of terrorist incident. | 0:01:07 | 0:01:13 | |
-They had no idea how to deal -with it once it had started. | 0:01:14 | 0:01:20 | |
-The original aim of Black September -in Munich in 1972... | 0:01:21 | 0:01:25 | |
-..was to kidnap members -of the Israeli Olympic team. | 0:01:25 | 0:01:28 | |
-They kidnapped six coaches -and five athletes. | 0:01:29 | 0:01:35 | |
-They intended to keep them -as hostages... | 0:01:36 | 0:01:40 | |
-..to try and bargain for the release -of 234 Palestinian prisoners... | 0:01:40 | 0:01:46 | |
-..who'd been captured by Israel. | 0:01:47 | 0:01:49 | |
-They also wanted the release of the -Red Army Faction leaders in Germany. | 0:01:50 | 0:01:55 | |
-This explains why they chose Germany -as their target. | 0:01:55 | 0:01:59 | |
-They wanted Baader and Meinhof -released from German prisons. | 0:01:59 | 0:02:04 | |
-40 years have flown by. | 0:02:05 | 0:02:07 | |
-I've been joined by Austin Savage -who was in Munich in 1972. | 0:02:07 | 0:02:13 | |
-Why were you in Munich -for the Olympic Games? | 0:02:14 | 0:02:18 | |
-I was a member of the Great Britain -Olympic hockey team. | 0:02:18 | 0:02:22 | |
-That was the highlight of my career. | 0:02:23 | 0:02:25 | |
-I'd had success with -the Welsh team over the years. | 0:02:25 | 0:02:29 | |
-I'd missed out on competing -at the Olympic Games previously. | 0:02:29 | 0:02:33 | |
-The selectors thought I was too -young to play at Tokyo in 1964. | 0:02:34 | 0:02:38 | |
-I played numerous times for Great -Britain between Tokyo and Mexico... | 0:02:38 | 0:02:44 | |
-..but all the travelling -I had to do... | 0:02:44 | 0:02:48 | |
-..from Rhyl and Abergele -down to London, took its toll... | 0:02:48 | 0:02:52 | |
-..so I missed out on a place -in Mexico... | 0:02:52 | 0:02:55 | |
-..but I was still successful -with Wales. | 0:02:55 | 0:02:58 | |
-They had to choose someone from the -Welsh team to compete in Munich... | 0:02:58 | 0:03:03 | |
-..and that's how I went. | 0:03:03 | 0:03:06 | |
-Tell me about the security -arrangements in Munich. | 0:03:06 | 0:03:10 | |
-It appeared to be fine. | 0:03:10 | 0:03:12 | |
-The Olympic village -was surrounded by a tall fence. | 0:03:12 | 0:03:18 | |
-There were gates with big locks -to secure them. | 0:03:18 | 0:03:21 | |
-There were guards stationed -at every entrance. | 0:03:21 | 0:03:25 | |
-I was aware of the presence -of policemen and soldiers... | 0:03:25 | 0:03:29 | |
-..even though -they weren't in uniform. | 0:03:29 | 0:03:31 | |
-How far was your section of -the village from the Israeli camp? | 0:03:32 | 0:03:36 | |
-The next street. | 0:03:36 | 0:03:38 | |
-If I stood on the top floor -of our building... | 0:03:38 | 0:03:41 | |
-..I could see the Israeli building. | 0:03:42 | 0:03:44 | |
-When did you become aware -that all was not well? | 0:03:45 | 0:03:48 | |
-After breakfast on that morning. | 0:03:48 | 0:03:53 | |
-People had broken in -over the fence... | 0:03:53 | 0:03:57 | |
-..and things had started happening. | 0:03:57 | 0:04:00 | |
-I wasn't aware -until I walked past the street... | 0:04:00 | 0:04:04 | |
-..where the Israelis were staying... | 0:04:04 | 0:04:06 | |
-..and saw the police in their -blue uniforms and white hats. | 0:04:07 | 0:04:11 | |
-We ate our breakfast -and walked back. | 0:04:11 | 0:04:14 | |
-There was a huge commotion... | 0:04:14 | 0:04:16 | |
-..and that's when we heard -that two Israelis had been killed... | 0:04:17 | 0:04:21 | |
-..inside their building. | 0:04:21 | 0:04:23 | |
-Everything stopped. | 0:04:23 | 0:04:25 | |
-I returned to my room -and the phone rang. | 0:04:28 | 0:04:34 | |
-The BBC in Bangor and Cardiff -had been trying to get hold of me. | 0:04:34 | 0:04:39 | |
-The late Alun Williams -who worked for the BBC... | 0:04:40 | 0:04:45 | |
-..had left Munich -to watch the sailing in Kiel... | 0:04:45 | 0:04:50 | |
-..so he wasn't available. | 0:04:50 | 0:04:52 | |
-They asked me if I knew -what was happening. | 0:04:52 | 0:04:56 | |
-The village itself -was pedestrianised... | 0:04:57 | 0:05:01 | |
-..and under the village was -a network of roads for vehicles. | 0:05:01 | 0:05:07 | |
-That's where I went to try -and discover more information. | 0:05:07 | 0:05:12 | |
-I found a policeman -who spoke English. | 0:05:12 | 0:05:14 | |
-I wasn't supposed to be there. | 0:05:15 | 0:05:17 | |
-He told me to shelter behind -a pillar for my own safety. | 0:05:17 | 0:05:21 | |
-He fed me information -about the terrorists' demands. | 0:05:21 | 0:05:29 | |
-I went back up to our building -and phoned the BBC. | 0:05:29 | 0:05:33 | |
-I then returned to talk -to the policeman. | 0:05:33 | 0:05:36 | |
-The rest of the hockey team -were stuck where they were. | 0:05:36 | 0:05:40 | |
-They just played chess -or read books... | 0:05:40 | 0:05:43 | |
-..while I went back down -to gather more information. | 0:05:43 | 0:05:47 | |
-It was so well covered -as a historical event... | 0:05:47 | 0:05:50 | |
-..because of the presence of so -many cameras in the Olympic village. | 0:05:50 | 0:05:54 | |
-It was all broadcast on TV. | 0:05:54 | 0:05:56 | |
-It was the first historic event -that the public could witness. | 0:05:57 | 0:06:02 | |
-I wasn't aware -of any CCTV cameras... | 0:06:05 | 0:06:10 | |
-..but I was very aware that -a lot was happening at the time. | 0:06:10 | 0:06:17 | |
-This was disappointing... | 0:06:17 | 0:06:19 | |
-..because the Games were held -in the correct spirit. | 0:06:19 | 0:06:23 | |
-Despite all the troubles -in the world at the time... | 0:06:23 | 0:06:27 | |
-..we got on well with athletes -from other nations. | 0:06:27 | 0:06:31 | |
-You were hiding behind a pillar. | 0:06:31 | 0:06:33 | |
-You were passed by a bus -carrying the terrorists. | 0:06:34 | 0:06:37 | |
-Could you see into the bus? | 0:06:37 | 0:06:39 | |
-I could see a man at the front -holding a gun. | 0:06:39 | 0:06:42 | |
-It all happened so quickly -and I was worried I'd be seen. | 0:06:43 | 0:06:48 | |
-I didn't want to be caught. | 0:06:48 | 0:06:52 | |
-That was a rather strange thing -to see. | 0:06:54 | 0:06:58 | |
-You were in the next street. -Were you worried about your safety? | 0:06:58 | 0:07:02 | |
-No, no. | 0:07:02 | 0:07:04 | |
-Everything had happened by then. | 0:07:05 | 0:07:07 | |
-We don't expect -anything like that to happen again. | 0:07:07 | 0:07:11 | |
-After that, we saw more -armed police inside the village. | 0:07:11 | 0:07:17 | |
-I attended the memorial service. | 0:07:20 | 0:07:23 | |
-The games were stopped for a while. | 0:07:23 | 0:07:26 | |
-I can't remember for how long, -a day or two. | 0:07:26 | 0:07:29 | |
-All the athletes wanted to know -what was going to happen. | 0:07:29 | 0:07:33 | |
-There was a memorial service -in the Olympic Stadium... | 0:07:33 | 0:07:37 | |
-..to pay tribute to those -who'd been killed. | 0:07:38 | 0:07:41 | |
-We were waiting to hear -if the Olympic Games would continue. | 0:07:41 | 0:07:45 | |
-Avery Brundage, the president -of the IOC, was heavily criticised. | 0:07:45 | 0:07:51 | |
-The Arab nations refused -to lower their flags to half mast. | 0:07:52 | 0:07:57 | |
-The Great Britain -Olympic hockey team... | 0:07:58 | 0:08:01 | |
-..had two players of Arab descent. | 0:08:01 | 0:08:03 | |
-I have to say, -they were very concerned indeed. | 0:08:04 | 0:08:08 | |
-In appearance, -they were very similar... | 0:08:09 | 0:08:13 | |
-..to the Black September group. | 0:08:13 | 0:08:16 | |
-They were very concerned. | 0:08:17 | 0:08:19 | |
-For the rest of us, -everything continued. | 0:08:19 | 0:08:23 | |
-A decision had to be taken about -whether the Games would continue. | 0:08:26 | 0:08:31 | |
-You had a game to play -the following day. | 0:08:31 | 0:08:34 | |
-Were the Games in doubt at any time? | 0:08:34 | 0:08:38 | |
-Oh, yes, most certainly. | 0:08:38 | 0:08:40 | |
-Some people thought -they would be cancelled. | 0:08:40 | 0:08:43 | |
-It was such a serious incident... | 0:08:43 | 0:08:45 | |
-..and people were so shocked -that it had happened in Germany. | 0:08:46 | 0:08:50 | |
-The organisation of the Games -was so meticulous. | 0:08:50 | 0:08:53 | |
-The 1972 Games were the first -to be organised professionally... | 0:08:54 | 0:08:58 | |
-..for a long time. | 0:08:58 | 0:09:01 | |
-The Games went ahead, -and that was some relief... | 0:09:04 | 0:09:08 | |
-..yet, in the team games, somehow -or other, the spark had disappeared. | 0:09:08 | 0:09:17 | |
-Mark Spitz returned home -after winning numerous medals... | 0:09:17 | 0:09:21 | |
-..and he was of Jewish descent. | 0:09:22 | 0:09:23 | |
-Some of the nations -also returned home. | 0:09:24 | 0:09:28 | |
-It affected me differently. | 0:09:29 | 0:09:32 | |
-Because of the delay... | 0:09:32 | 0:09:34 | |
-..the Closing Ceremony -would happen later... | 0:09:35 | 0:09:38 | |
-..than the time the school -had allowed me to be away. | 0:09:38 | 0:09:44 | |
-They had to organise a plane -for those who missed the ceremony. | 0:09:45 | 0:09:51 | |
-I missed the Closing Ceremony... | 0:09:51 | 0:09:54 | |
-..because I had to be back -at the school in Rhyl. | 0:09:54 | 0:09:59 | |
-Do you think the people killed -at Munich... | 0:10:00 | 0:10:03 | |
-..were respectfully remembered -at the London Olympics? | 0:10:03 | 0:10:07 | |
-I think so. | 0:10:07 | 0:10:09 | |
-They were remembered -during the Opening Ceremony... | 0:10:09 | 0:10:13 | |
-..and there is a memorial -to the incident. | 0:10:13 | 0:10:17 | |
-You can't have too many memorials -to something as terrifying as that. | 0:10:17 | 0:10:23 | |
-From then on, security at sporting -events changed forever. | 0:10:24 | 0:10:29 | |
-Yes indeed. | 0:10:30 | 0:10:32 | |
-You sometimes think -it's gone too far. | 0:10:33 | 0:10:35 | |
-One thing that disappoints me about -the Olympics is its current scale. | 0:10:35 | 0:10:40 | |
-So much money is spent on -the opening and closing ceremonies. | 0:10:41 | 0:10:46 | |
-I think the money -would be better spent... | 0:10:46 | 0:10:49 | |
-..on the sports themselves -and the lesser countries. | 0:10:50 | 0:10:54 | |
-It was 40 years ago, -but it's still fresh in your memory. | 0:10:55 | 0:10:58 | |
-Even though it's 40 years, -it feels like yesterday. | 0:10:59 | 0:11:02 | |
-It's flown by. | 0:11:03 | 0:11:04 | |
-The day you became -a BBC correspondent... | 0:11:05 | 0:11:07 | |
-..while Alun Williams -was sailing in Kiel! | 0:11:08 | 0:11:10 | |
-Thank you for sharing your story. | 0:11:12 | 0:11:14 | |
-Munich in 1972. | 0:11:16 | 0:11:18 | |
-It's time to take a break. | 0:11:18 | 0:11:20 | |
-When we return, we travel -to Tiananmen Square in China. | 0:11:21 | 0:11:24 | |
-We meet a woman -who worked there as a lecturer... | 0:11:24 | 0:11:27 | |
-..and joined the protestors -on the square. | 0:11:27 | 0:11:31 | |
-. | 0:11:34 | 0:11:34 | |
-Subtitles | 0:11:36 | 0:11:36 | |
-Subtitles - -Subtitles | 0:11:36 | 0:11:38 | |
-Welcome back to Cadw Cwmni. | 0:11:39 | 0:11:41 | |
-In Part 1, we discussed -the Munich massacre in 1972. | 0:11:41 | 0:11:45 | |
-Next, we travel to China and the -Tiananmen Square protest in 1989. | 0:11:45 | 0:11:50 | |
-What we witnessed -in Tiananmen Square in 1989... | 0:11:50 | 0:11:55 | |
-..was the biggest challenge -to the leadership and control... | 0:11:55 | 0:11:59 | |
-..of the Communist Party in China. | 0:11:59 | 0:12:01 | |
-Tiananmen Square is very symbolic. | 0:12:02 | 0:12:04 | |
-The protests started in April -and continued through to June... | 0:12:05 | 0:12:11 | |
-..right in the centre of Beijing... | 0:12:12 | 0:12:15 | |
-..in a square that was highly -symbolic to the Communist Party. | 0:12:15 | 0:12:21 | |
-Most of the protestors -were students. | 0:12:21 | 0:12:25 | |
-What we saw in China from 1987 -onwards, and throughout the 1980s... | 0:12:25 | 0:12:31 | |
-..was the country's ruling party, -led by Deng Xiaoping... | 0:12:31 | 0:12:35 | |
-..opening up sections of society. | 0:12:36 | 0:12:39 | |
-They made it easier for people -to voice their opinions... | 0:12:39 | 0:12:44 | |
-..and they introduced economic -measures to promote competition. | 0:12:44 | 0:12:50 | |
-The population was enjoying -elements of social, economic... | 0:12:50 | 0:12:54 | |
-..and, to some extent, -political freedom... | 0:12:54 | 0:12:57 | |
-..that hadn't existed under Mao. | 0:12:58 | 0:13:00 | |
-However, towards the end -of the 1980s, there was an U-turn. | 0:13:00 | 0:13:05 | |
-The Chinese government closed ranks. | 0:13:05 | 0:13:09 | |
-They prevented people -voicing their opinions. | 0:13:09 | 0:13:13 | |
-Dr Kathryn Jones witnessed the -events at Tiananmen in Beijing... | 0:13:14 | 0:13:19 | |
-..and she joins me now. | 0:13:19 | 0:13:21 | |
-What were you doing -in Beijing in 1989? | 0:13:21 | 0:13:24 | |
-I was working at the university -in Beijing. | 0:13:25 | 0:13:27 | |
-I was director of the university's -foreign languages department. | 0:13:27 | 0:13:31 | |
-What was interesting -about Communism... | 0:13:31 | 0:13:35 | |
-..were the changes seen in Europe -at the time. | 0:13:35 | 0:13:39 | |
-During that time, -at the end of the 1980s... | 0:13:40 | 0:13:43 | |
-..Communism was being challenged -in Europe. | 0:13:43 | 0:13:46 | |
-Poland had moved away -from Communism in April 1989. | 0:13:46 | 0:13:55 | |
-There was a real threat -to Communism at the time. | 0:13:55 | 0:14:02 | |
-Did you think China -would change during this time? | 0:14:02 | 0:14:06 | |
-There was a lot of discussion -about what could happen. | 0:14:06 | 0:14:12 | |
-By that time, Mao Tse-tung's -generation of supporters were dying. | 0:14:14 | 0:14:21 | |
-They were in their late 80s, -early 90s. | 0:14:21 | 0:14:24 | |
-A new generation was -becoming more influential... | 0:14:25 | 0:14:28 | |
-..within the Communist Party -in China. | 0:14:29 | 0:14:31 | |
-Tiananmen Square was filled by -students over a long period of time. | 0:14:32 | 0:14:37 | |
-It was a protest -that developed over time... | 0:14:38 | 0:14:41 | |
-..and changed over time too. | 0:14:41 | 0:14:44 | |
-The catalyst to the protests -was the death of Hu Yaobang... | 0:14:44 | 0:14:48 | |
-..a former General Secretary -on the Communist Party of China. | 0:14:48 | 0:14:53 | |
-He'd declared publically -that intellectual people... | 0:14:53 | 0:14:57 | |
-..had an important role to play -and that was very significant. | 0:14:57 | 0:15:02 | |
-During the Cultural Revolution, -academics had been persecuted. | 0:15:02 | 0:15:10 | |
-When he died, -the students at the university... | 0:15:12 | 0:15:17 | |
-..paid homage to him. | 0:15:17 | 0:15:20 | |
-Initially, -protests were made in good spirits. | 0:15:20 | 0:15:24 | |
-There were protests -against political corruption... | 0:15:24 | 0:15:28 | |
-..within the Communist Party. | 0:15:28 | 0:15:30 | |
-Beyond that, there was no -real threat to the ruling order. | 0:15:30 | 0:15:36 | |
-That grew as the protests continued. | 0:15:36 | 0:15:40 | |
-There were numerous key events -during that time. | 0:15:40 | 0:15:45 | |
-There was almost -a carnival atmosphere... | 0:15:48 | 0:15:51 | |
-..during the first week of protests. | 0:15:52 | 0:15:55 | |
-Gorbachev visited Beijing -around May 15... | 0:15:57 | 0:16:04 | |
-..and by then... | 0:16:04 | 0:16:06 | |
-..the Chinese government -had offered to meet the students. | 0:16:06 | 0:16:13 | |
-The meetings would be broadcast -on TV. | 0:16:15 | 0:16:18 | |
-A select group of students, -chosen by the government... | 0:16:19 | 0:16:23 | |
-..met some rather insignificant -government ministers. | 0:16:23 | 0:16:28 | |
-The government's dismissive attitude -sparked indignation... | 0:16:28 | 0:16:34 | |
-..amongst the students. | 0:16:34 | 0:16:36 | |
-In terms of your -personal experience... | 0:16:36 | 0:16:39 | |
-..you lectured the students -who protested on the square. | 0:16:39 | 0:16:42 | |
-Yes, but I was lecturing a group -of mature students at the time. | 0:16:42 | 0:16:47 | |
-They intended to pursue doctorate -courses in America or Britain. | 0:16:47 | 0:16:53 | |
-The students I lectured directly... | 0:16:54 | 0:16:56 | |
-..weren't the young generation -of students. | 0:16:56 | 0:17:01 | |
-The younger students -led the political campaigns. | 0:17:01 | 0:17:06 | |
-The mature students supported -and joined the protests... | 0:17:07 | 0:17:11 | |
-..but they weren't the leaders. | 0:17:11 | 0:17:14 | |
-Did you attend the protests? | 0:17:15 | 0:17:17 | |
-Yes, I attended regularly -right from the start. | 0:17:17 | 0:17:19 | |
-On the week of April 15, no lectures -were held in the university. | 0:17:20 | 0:17:25 | |
-There were no students -at the university. | 0:17:25 | 0:17:28 | |
-As someone from the western world, -how safe did you feel? | 0:17:29 | 0:17:33 | |
-Initially, everyone felt very safe. | 0:17:34 | 0:17:36 | |
-There was a very friendly -atmosphere. | 0:17:37 | 0:17:41 | |
-When Gorbachev returned to Russia, -the atmosphere changed. | 0:17:41 | 0:17:45 | |
-By then, -China was under immense pressure... | 0:17:45 | 0:17:48 | |
-..from the international community. | 0:17:48 | 0:17:51 | |
-The international media was -broadcasting images of the protests. | 0:17:51 | 0:17:57 | |
-A lot of students -were on hunger strikes... | 0:17:57 | 0:18:00 | |
-..a lot of students -were falling ill... | 0:18:00 | 0:18:03 | |
-..and ambulances -were constantly coming and going. | 0:18:03 | 0:18:07 | |
-There was a turning point -on May 20... | 0:18:07 | 0:18:14 | |
-..when martial law was declared -and everything was prohibited. | 0:18:14 | 0:18:19 | |
-That was the turning point. | 0:18:19 | 0:18:21 | |
-Were you being watched? | 0:18:21 | 0:18:23 | |
-Were you being watched? - -I don't know. | 0:18:23 | 0:18:24 | |
-Prior to the protests... | 0:18:25 | 0:18:27 | |
-..I was aware of people -standing outside my home... | 0:18:27 | 0:18:32 | |
-..keeping an eye on everyone, -not just me. | 0:18:32 | 0:18:35 | |
-I was aware of this surveillance. | 0:18:36 | 0:18:38 | |
-Somehow, I don't know how... | 0:18:39 | 0:18:41 | |
-..someone from the English media -had my phone number. | 0:18:41 | 0:18:45 | |
-They phoned me and asked -for an interview in English. | 0:18:46 | 0:18:48 | |
-That was too dangerous -and I put the phone down. | 0:18:49 | 0:18:51 | |
-You couldn't phone people -directly... | 0:18:52 | 0:18:54 | |
-..you were re-directed -by a switchboard in the university. | 0:18:55 | 0:18:59 | |
-They were used to hearing me -speaking to my parents in Welsh. | 0:18:59 | 0:19:03 | |
-I felt safer -when Aled Gwyn phoned me... | 0:19:04 | 0:19:07 | |
-..pretending to be my uncle, -and spoke in Welsh. | 0:19:08 | 0:19:11 | |
-You were safe speaking Welsh -but not English! | 0:19:12 | 0:19:15 | |
-I felt in danger -when I spoke English. | 0:19:16 | 0:19:18 | |
-What do you remember of the nights -when they cleared the square? | 0:19:19 | 0:19:22 | |
-Where were you at the time? | 0:19:23 | 0:19:24 | |
-I'd been down to the square on a -number of nights before it happened. | 0:19:25 | 0:19:29 | |
-People expected it to happen. I'd -go down to see what was happening. | 0:19:30 | 0:19:34 | |
-There were very few cars there -at the time - people rode bicycles. | 0:19:34 | 0:19:38 | |
-I'd cycle down so far -and if I saw tanks, I'd turn around. | 0:19:39 | 0:19:44 | |
-That's only as far as I went. | 0:19:46 | 0:19:48 | |
-When I was in China... | 0:19:49 | 0:19:51 | |
-..the university buildings were -at the northern edge of Beijing. | 0:19:51 | 0:19:56 | |
-They're now in the centre -of the city. | 0:19:56 | 0:19:58 | |
-There were a number of universities -close to one another. | 0:19:59 | 0:20:03 | |
-At the time, there were huge gates -in front of every university. | 0:20:03 | 0:20:08 | |
-People would gather at the gates -to hear about the events. | 0:20:08 | 0:20:12 | |
-I remember going down -to one of the other universities. | 0:20:12 | 0:20:16 | |
-There's a wide road from -Beijing's Tsinghua University... | 0:20:16 | 0:20:21 | |
-..down to the city centre. | 0:20:22 | 0:20:24 | |
-I remember being part of a crowd... | 0:20:24 | 0:20:26 | |
-..that went down -to hear about the events. | 0:20:26 | 0:20:29 | |
-I remember a group of students -returning from the square... | 0:20:29 | 0:20:37 | |
-..and they were chanting -their slogans. | 0:20:37 | 0:20:41 | |
-They claimed that 1,600 students -had been killed. | 0:20:41 | 0:20:45 | |
-That was the message -we received from this group. | 0:20:45 | 0:20:49 | |
-They had been part -of the protests... | 0:20:49 | 0:20:52 | |
-..and were returning -to the universities. | 0:20:52 | 0:20:56 | |
-It's hard to describe -the atmosphere at the time. | 0:20:56 | 0:21:03 | |
-There was anger and grief - -it was very emotional. | 0:21:03 | 0:21:06 | |
-People were searching for news -about their friends. | 0:21:06 | 0:21:10 | |
-There were reports of soldiers -firing at students in the square... | 0:21:10 | 0:21:15 | |
-..but students were encouraged to -go the square to rescue the bodies. | 0:21:16 | 0:21:21 | |
-How many photographs -do you have of that time? | 0:21:21 | 0:21:24 | |
-I had a lot of photographs -but I destroyed most of them. | 0:21:25 | 0:21:30 | |
-The photographs I had... | 0:21:30 | 0:21:33 | |
-..were evidence of the people -who had been part of the protests. | 0:21:33 | 0:21:38 | |
-Prior to that... | 0:21:38 | 0:21:40 | |
-..people were hauled in front -of a committee at the university... | 0:21:40 | 0:21:45 | |
-..to confess any part they'd played. | 0:21:46 | 0:21:50 | |
-I was very concerned about that. | 0:21:50 | 0:21:55 | |
-At the time, I worked with people -from America and Britain... | 0:21:57 | 0:22:01 | |
-..in addition to Chinese people. | 0:22:02 | 0:22:04 | |
-I remember a minibus turning up -from the British Embassy... | 0:22:04 | 0:22:11 | |
-..to collect the British people -who'd decided to return home. | 0:22:11 | 0:22:15 | |
-I'd decided to stay... | 0:22:16 | 0:22:19 | |
-..but I was persuaded to leave. | 0:22:20 | 0:22:22 | |
-I was concerned that people would be -punished simply for knowing me. | 0:22:24 | 0:22:33 | |
-That was a real danger at the time. | 0:22:34 | 0:22:37 | |
-I don't know if it would have -happened, but it was a danger. | 0:22:37 | 0:22:41 | |
-That's why I decided to leave... | 0:22:42 | 0:22:44 | |
-..and I was given 20 minutes -to pack my bags. | 0:22:44 | 0:22:47 | |
-20 minutes? | 0:22:47 | 0:22:49 | |
-It's one of the worst things -I've ever had to do. | 0:22:49 | 0:22:52 | |
-Unfortunately, our time is up. | 0:22:52 | 0:22:56 | |
-Thank you for sharing your story -with us tonight. | 0:22:56 | 0:23:00 | |
-You're welcome. | 0:23:00 | 0:23:02 | |
-If you have a story, get in touch -and share your experience. | 0:23:02 | 0:23:07 | |
-We want to hear your stories on S4C. | 0:23:07 | 0:23:10 | |
-We're back next week. -Until then, goodnight. | 0:23:10 | 0:23:14 | |
-S4C Subtitles by Adnod Cyf. | 0:23:33 | 0:23:35 | |
-. | 0:23:35 | 0:23:35 |
