Pennod 2 Cadw Cwmni Gyda John Hardy

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-Welcome to Cadw Cwmni,

-a series that provides a platform...

-..for our nation's

-interesting and diverse stories.

-Tonight, we recall

-a particular time...

-..when Welsh-language institutions

-were under threat...

-..as English speakers

-moved to Wales.

-English speakers

-under the age of 14 years old!

-Evacuees first moved to Wales

-on September 1, 1939.

-The Government decided

-to move women and children...

-..away from the cities

-that were likely to be bombed.

-During the Second World War...

-..110,000 children

-moved to live in Wales.

-Most settled in South Wales.

-Many moved to live in

-Glamorganshire, about 33,000 in all.

-A lot of children moved to live

-in towns in North Wales.

-They moved

-from Liverpool and Manchester.

-The standard of living

-for many children improved...

-..when they moved to Wales

-from England.

-A lot of children enjoyed

-living the rural life in Wales.

-They had plenty of fresh air,

-they played in open spaces.

-Many children claimed they didn't

-experience the Second World War...

-..while living in Wales.

-Many enjoyed themselves so much...

-..some settled in Wales for good.

-Two of the thousands of evacuees

-are keeping me company tonight.

-One comes from Edge Hill,

-the other from Everton.

-Barbara Davies and Harold Williams,

-welcome to the show.

-Life could have been different

-had you met before tonight.

-Who knows?

-Let me take you back to that time.

-How much of the war do you

-remember in Liverpool, Harold?

-I remember the bombing -

-I was five years old when I left.

-I remember the bombing

-during the daytime.

-The sirens sounded

-and aeroplanes flew overhead.

-I remember a bomb

-falling on our house.

-We lived in a three-storey house...

-..and we didn't use

-the third floor at all.

-I remember men running upstairs

-carrying buckets.

-I went up the following day to have

-a look and saw a hole in the roof.

-It had been caused

-by an incendiary bomb.

-Were your experiences similar?

-I remember one particular night.

-Mam died

-when I was three years old...

-..and Mam's friend, Ruthie Cooke,

-looked after us.

-She lived across the road

-from where we used to live.

-My father was in the Army

-and he came home one weekend.

-The sirens were sounded to warn us

-that the Germans were coming.

-I remember running

-to Ruthie's house...

-..to see where she was going.

-She was heading to the technical

-college at the top of the street.

-My father thought it was

-a dangerous place to shelter...

-..with so much glass there.

-Neither she, her daughter

-or myself went to the college.

-That night, my father took me back

-to Mr and Mrs Baker's house...

-..where he lodged.

-The bombs were falling close by

-that night.

-There was a direct hit

-on the college.

-164 people died.

-Only one baby emerged

-from the rubble, sucking a dummy.

-You were meant to be in that college

-on that fateful night.

-That's where we would have gone.

-It was a warm place to shelter

-in the middle of November.

-Harold, do you remember the day

-you left Everton?

-I don't remember anything

-about the journey.

-We were given a parcel

-by whoever looked after us.

-Inside the parcel, I found

-underwear, pyjamas and shoes.

-I'd never owned

-a pair of shoes before that day.

-We left the train and went

-to a school in Watling Street.

-Someone would take crews of us

-and knock on doors.

-The residents would choose a child

-from the group outside.

-Mrs Williams chose me.

-According to her...

-..the first thing she did

-was put me straight in the bath.

-I had a parcel of underpants,

-a vest, pyjamas and shoes.

-She told me to have a bath

-and wear the clothes afterwards.

-"And I'll be back in a minute."

-She came back in a few minutes...

-..and I was sat in the bath

-wearing the underpants and vest.

-In the bath?

-In the bath?

-

-I'd never owned underwear before...

-..or pyjamas.

-As I said,

-everyone was always nice to us...

-..but there was great poverty

-at the time.

-It was a rather unusual situation

-in your house.

-Your mother had died...

-..but your father was forced

-to join the Army.

-He left you behind.

-It was very sad.

-The war started on September 3.

-Soon after, the evacuees moved away.

-I lost contact

-with my father and brother.

-My mother had died

-three months earlier.

-I remember the journey

-as if I was on the train now.

-We travelled from Liverpool

-to Aberystwyth on the train.

-From Aberystwyth,

-a bus took us to Llanon.

-I'd never been in a car before.

-I'd travelled in trolleys,

-trams, trains and ferries...

-..but never in a car.

-I travelled by car

-from Llanon to Talgarreg.

-We came to a stop near a milk stand.

-A muddy road led us along a bank...

-..and coming over the bank,

-we could see a horse and cart.

-It was being led by a small man

-with a flat cap on his head.

-He was puffing on a cigarette.

-He was John Davies, Pantglas.

-I came to know him as Wncwl.

-I called him Wncwl from that day.

-He became more of a father to me

-than my real father.

-That's so interesting to hear,

-from both of you.

-I sense that you were closer

-to the people who took you in...

-..than you were

-to your biological parents.

-There's no doubt about it.

-I was given the choice - did I

-want to stay or not after the war?

-You were given the choice

-when the war ended?

-My brother was older. He attended

-the grammar school in Llanrwst.

-He was very intelligent.

-At the end of the war,

-my father told him to come home...

-..to work and earn a wage.

-The headmaster at Llanrwst

-wrote to my father...

-..to ask if my brother could stay

-in school, but he flatly refused.

-He had to go back.

-Mr and Mrs Williams were

-the couple who'd taken me in...

-..and Mr Williams died of cancer

-straight after the war.

-She was a widow and childless.

-Her sister lived in Betws-y-Coed.

-She didn't have children.

-I was the only 'child'.

-From what I know, Mrs Williams

-and Mrs Davies went to Liverpool...

-..and asked my father

-if they could keep me.

-He said that if I wanted to stay,

-I could.

-If I changed my mind at any time,

-I was to return home.

-You had a different choice, Barbara.

-My father would come down

-on weekends.

-One Monday morning, he said...

-.."Come on, Barbara,

-time to go back to Liverpool."

-"No, Daddy,

-I'm not coming back with you.

-"I'm staying in Wales

-with our old Willy, my brother."

-As you look back, where was home?

-Talgarreg.

-Talgarreg.

-

-Llanrwst.

-Going home was Talgarreg.

-Llanrwst and Betws-y-coed.

-I have two Welsh people with me,

-not Scousers!

-True enough.

-When I looked into my family tree,

-I found that Tad-cu came from Tenby.

-When I found out Mam-gu

-was a Welsh girl from Flint...

-..it was such a wonderful feeling.

-I was so proud of my Welsh roots.

-All doubts were removed.

-All doubts were removed.

-

-Yes.

-Did this family

-become Mam and Dad...

-..or were they always Mr and Mrs?

-Respect was very important

-to Mrs Williams...

-..towards other people,

-older people.

-That's how I was raised.

-I had to respect everyone, whoever

-they were, however old they were.

-They were always

-Mr and Mrs Williams to me.

-You called him Wncwl.

-Talgarreg was very different.

-You were taught to respect others...

-..but you also knew people as

-John Pantglas or Ifor Llawr Cwrt...

-..their first name and their home.

-What did they call you?

-Strangely enough,

-my name was Barbara.

-People struggled with Barbara,

-it was an unfamiliar name.

-Wncwl would call me Barba.

-An old woman who lived opposite us

-would call me Bar-bara.

-"Bar-bara, bring me some tea."

-Tad-cu Llawr Cwrt would say Debra.

-"I'm not called Debra, Tad-cu."

-Bar-bara! Deb-orah!

-That made me feel even worse.

-In the end, they called me Sian.

-My name was Barbara Joan

-so they decided to call me Sian.

-To people who know me, I'm Sian.

-Were you Sian Pantglas

-or the evacuee?

-Were you part of the family?

-Were you part of the family?

-

-Sian Pantglas.

-If I can take you back to the time

-after the war had ended...

-..describe the relationship

-you had with your biological father.

-It wasn't very good. I'd stay

-in touch with him by letter.

-I only saw him once

-during the war...

-..and after that, very little.

-He became very distant.

-He might've wanted to cut the ties

-because of the memories.

-Your relationship

-with your family soured.

-Yes, especially after I went

-into business, and succeeded.

-I'd receive letters

-asking for financial help...

-..to buy a TV or something.

-I felt I had my own family. Mrs

-Williams in Llanrwst was a widow.

-She was my first priority

-so I'd refuse to help out.

-I wouldn't write back

-with the refusal...

-..I'd just ignore the letters.

-I kept in touch with my brother

-who was in Llanrwst with me.

-He'd phone me every now and then

-if he had something to say.

-In fact, he phoned me to tell me

-that my father had died...

-..and that they'd buried him.

-My brother said...

-.."It was better you didn't come

-or Margaret would have abused you."

-You didn't say goodbye

-to your father?

-He died and they buried him

-before I knew anything about it.

-Ted thought it was better that way.

-I would have gone had I known.

-You've both said the same thing.

-You felt you had a debt towards

-the families that took you in.

-They became your responsibility.

-Most definitely.

-It's been an absolute pleasure

-talking to you.

-You're publishing a book

-about your experiences.

-The book will be published in May.

-It's strange to think

-that both of you were seen...

-..as a threat

-to the Welsh language...

-..when you crossed

-Offa's Dyke into Wales.

-Thank you very much

-for keeping me company.

-It's been a pleasure.

-It's time for us to take a break.

-We've heard about

-the English moving into Wales...

-..and how we turned them Welsh.

-In Part Two, we hear about the Welsh

-who moved to the Khasi Hills.

-Join us again in two minutes.

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-Welcome back to Cadw Cwmni.

-In Part 1,

-we heard about the evacuees...

-..who found a home in Wales.

-In Part 2, we hear about

-Welsh people who moved away...

-..to share their religion -

-the missionaries.

-I suspect that a big saga

-for the Welsh nation...

-..was the missionary movement

-to India.

-The story begins in 1840,

-in Liverpool...

-..when a young missionary,

-Thomas Jones...

-..was refused passage to India by

-the missionary society in London.

-People in Liverpool

-set up their own missionary society.

-Thomas Jones, along with his wife

-Anne, travelled to Calcutta.

-They then travelled to Cherrapunji,

-the wettest place in the world.

-After six long months,

-they started their missionary work.

-The foundations were laid for Khasi

-literature, language and life...

-..especially the alphabet.

-Thomas Jones died

-a young man of 39 years old...

-..but by then, another missionary,

-William Lewis, had arrived.

-That was the story

-all the way up to 1970.

-Hundreds of young Welsh men...

-..and women went out,

-as doctors and teachers...

-..working with the Sunday schools

-and the children.

-The missionaries

-who've travelled around the world.

-I've been joined

-by Gwynn Angell Jones...

-..who comes from a family

-of missionaries.

-How many members of your family

-were missionaries?

-My father went out to India

-as a missionary.

-He was there for 27 years.

-His brother went to China

-as a missionary.

-He was there for a shorter time

-because they were persecuted...

-..during the Chinese Revolution.

-He was persecuted

-and returned to Wales.

-The idea of missionaries

-is interesting.

-There's something

-rather Victorian about it.

-Is missionary work

-beneficial or harmful?

-From my point of view,

-it was very beneficial.

-These people went out

-to preach the Gospel...

-..but they were also involved

-in other work.

-They did social

-and educational work.

-They established schools and helped

-organise the electoral system.

-Many were involved

-with important medical work...

-..that improved

-people's living standards.

-In terms of your father...

-..when did he decide to go to India

-to do his missionary work?

-After leaving college,

-he didn't search for a church.

-He went through

-the educational system...

-..and decided he wanted to become

-a missionary.

-He went out as a young man

-in his 20s.

-With his wife?

-With his wife?

-

-No. It's an interesting story.

-He met her before going out

-but didn't want to rush things.

-He went out and they kept in touch.

-A year later, she travelled

-by boat around Africa...

-..to Colombo and up to Calcutta.

-They married in Calcutta.

-My wife, Enid, and I visited

-the church where they married.

-Often, you make a point of

-referring to them as brave people.

-It was a characteristic

-of missionaries for over 100 years.

-They visited a country

-they knew very little about.

-They didn't know what to expect.

-They worked for years and made

-a difference in their communities.

-Of course, missionaries would

-return home every five years...

-..apart from times of war.

-They would return to Wales

-to talk about their experiences...

-..and decide if they would return

-to India for another five years.

-How long did your parents do that?

-27 years.

-27 years?

-When did you enter the equation?

-When did you enter the equation?

-

-After 17 years.

-They returned to Wales

-and I returned with them as a baby.

-We lived in a village called Jowai,

-on the Jaintia Hills.

-How long did you live there?

-How long did you live there?

-

-Ten years.

-I was ten years old

-when I returned to Wales.

-How were you taught?

-How were you taught?

-

-Mam taught me.

-You didn't attend a local school?

-I attended a local school

-for one term...

-..to learn the language

-and interact with other children.

-Is the Khasi language

-difficult to learn?

-Like every other language,

-it's quite difficult.

-The language had evolved

-from the east...

-..from places that are now called

-Burma and Thailand.

-The origin of the language is Khmer.

-Those states migrated west.

-They established themselves on

-the hills now known as Meghalaya...

-..the Abode of Clouds.

-There's a stronger connection

-with eastern languages...

-..than the Indian languages.

-Your parents were missionaries

-in Khasi.

-Yes, in Khasi or Pnar.

-It was essential for missionaries

-to learn the native language.

-Otherwise, they wouldn't have been

-able to transfer their message.

-Your parents must have had

-to translate the hymns...

-..and passages from the Bible

-to Khasi.

-They did a lot of that kind of work.

-If you look at the hymn book...

-..you'll see the initials EJ,

-my mother, or GAJ, my father.

-Your connection with India

-ended when you were 10 years old.

-50 years later, you returned.

-Enid pointed out that I was

-celebrating my 60th birthday.

-She said, "Let's go back to India."

-We visited India and were given

-the warmest of welcomes.

-Did they remember you?

-Did they remember you?

-

-Yes, of course.

-Many were the same age as me.

-Many came up to me saying

-they were my best friend as a child.

-It was such a surprise

-to meet so many best friends!

-Did you start remembering

-the language?

-Strangely enough, when I returned,

-I had hoped to understand a little.

-I spoke Pnar and Khasi fluently

-as a child.

-For two days,

-I was so disappointed with myself.

-I couldn't understand a word.

-As I listened,

-it started coming back.

-How strong are the churches now?

-They're very strong.

-A large percentage

-of the population are Christians.

-When we recently visited

-the chapel in Jowai...

-..1,750 were taking Holy Communion

-that morning.

-The chapel is still central to life

-over there.

-The hospitals are also important

-to the communities.

-When you were first there,

-the hospital was being built.

-As a child, I saw the hospital

-being built in Jowai.

-The building services a wide area...

-..the size of Gwynedd and Ceredigion

-combined.

-A lot of Welsh people have had

-an opportunity to support the work.

-We established the Jowai Fund.

-We've completed projects thanks to

-the generosity of people in Wales.

-These projects have made

-such a difference.

-Ear and throat clinics

-have been established.

-There's a clinic

-for new-born babies.

-That's saved over 1,500 lives

-in the past four years.

-In such a remote place...

-..the speed people can reach

-the hospital is so important.

-That's crucial.

-It can take a day or two to reach

-Jowai from the remotest places.

-You will only encounter transport...

-..when you're 10-15 miles

-from the village.

-A lot of sick people have been

-carried by their families.

-It's also far to travel home.

-People's families have been forced

-to stay at the hospital for days.

-That's a huge problem that

-doesn't have an easy solution...

-..because of the country's

-geography.

-Beautiful

-but difficult to travel across.

-You were ten years old

-when you returned to Wales.

-How many languages did you speak?

-I spoke three languages.

-Welsh, the family language.

-Pnar and Khasi.

-I then learnt English.

-You couldn't speak English.

-You couldn't speak English.

-

-I could say good morning.

-And that was it?

-Good morning was everything!

-I thought it was similar

-to the Khasi word 'khublei'...

-..God be with you.

-You used it to say thank you,

-as a greeting, everywhere you went.

-As a child, I would answer

-'good morning' to everything.

-When the sun had set,

-I'd say good morning!

-People were far too kind

-to correct me!

-It's like hola in Spanish.

-Well, Gwynn, good morning,

-or thank you very much.

-Thank you for keeping me company.

-Thank you.

-Everyone has a story.

-If you have a story, get in touch.

-We want to hear your stories on S4C.

-We're back next week.

-Until then, goodnight.

-S4C Subtitles by Adnod Cyf.

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