Pennod 5 Cadw Cwmni gyda John Hardy

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-Welcome to Cadw Cwmni...

-..the series which proves the nation

-has memorable stories to tell...

-..and provides a platform

-for them to be heard.

-We meet a man who's following in

-Waldo's footsteps, albeit on a bike.

-But first,

-let's return to the 1970s...

-..when Ugandan refugees

-were seeking asylum.

-In 1971,

-following a successful coup...

-..to overthrow

-Milton Obote's government...

-..Idi Amin

-became president of Uganda...

-..a country that gained independence

-from British governance in 1962.

-Like many

-former British colonies in Africa...

-..Uganda had a large population of

-citizens of South Asian descent...

-..who had first entered the country

-in the 1890s...

-..to help build the railroads.

-Many decided to settle in Uganda...

-..and their children became doctors,

-teachers and businessmen.

-Over time,

-resentment began to grow in Uganda.

-The Asian community was seen to be

-capitalizing on the African economy.

-Idi Amin strongly believed this...

-..calling the Asian community

-economic bloodsuckers.

-In August 1972,

-he issued them with an ultimatum.

-They were ordered

-to flee Uganda within 90 days...

-..and leave behind

-all their possessions.

-They had to leave

-their homes and businesses.

-All they could take with them

-was one bag and 50 per family.

-Initially, most of them

-had to live in 12 camps...

-..that had been established

-across Britain...

-..one of which

-was the Tonfanau camp near Towyn...

-..in the northeast of Wales.

-It served as a refuge

-for more than 1,500 refugees.

-Our first guest on Cadw Cwmni

-remembers those days very well.

-Hywel Gwyn Evans was a headmaster

-at Ysgol Y Gadair, Dolgellau.

-What's the connection

-between Uganda and Ysgol Y Gadair?

-I'd been a headmaster

-for about a year at the school...

-..and I also lived on site.

-The schoolhouse was right in

-the centre of the school grounds...

-..among the trees,

-bushes and lawns.

-I'd been there a year...

-..when 33 children

-arrived from Uganda.

-Boys and girls.

-Some were Hindus, some were Muslims.

-The school completely changed,

-for a time.

-Why did they move

-into that particular area?

-The Tonfanau camp

-was empty at the time.

-It was a former

-military barracks near Towyn.

-So, 33 children turn up

-at Ysgol Y Gadair.

-What effect did it have

-on the school?

-It was far from being a big school.

-There were

-only 380 pupils at the school.

-33 additional pupils

-was a bit of a shock.

-Most of them ranged in age

-from 15 and 16 years...

-..to 18 and 19 years old.

-They were

-very interested in education.

-They came to school to work hard.

-They were a little surprised

-by a few of the pupils...

-..who weren't interested

-in learning.

-They'd often berate

-the local children.

-They'd say, "Listen, you come

-to school to work and get ahead."

-That was their background in Uganda.

-They were the children

-of successful parents.

-Businessmen, merchants, shopkeepers.

-They were wealthy, which is why

-Idi Amin banished them from Uganda.

-That's interesting,

-because refugees are usually poor.

-But it was the middle classes

-who were exiled from Uganda.

-Most of them were gifted pupils.

-Most of them were gifted pupils.

-

-Was there any conflict...

-..between them

-and the local children?

-Not as far as I knew, no...

-..until this one

-particular incident.

-The children had been at school

-for a few weeks.

-One playtime...

-..one of the teachers

-who was on yard duty...

-..brought in a boy called Karim.

-His name alone

-indicated that he was a Muslim...

-..although

-I was unaware of that at the time.

-He was a sweet child

-with rather a big nose.

-But this playtime, his nose

-was larger than usual and bloody.

-Someone had walloped him.

-Karim didn't want me

-to do anything about it.

-But I had to.

-Someone had attacked him.

-Within a few minutes...

-..I learnt that it was one of

-the local lads who had attacked him.

-I didn't know the reason behind it.

-The pupil was brought before me.

-The boy had been a troublemaker

-over the years.

-I handed him a letter,

-there and then...

-..explaining to his parents he was

-suspended for the rest of the week.

-But I later discovered...

-..there was some background

-to this incident.

-I was at home one night...

-..and a gang of boys

-from the town...

-..some of the town's hoodlums...

-..as I liked to call them.

-It's not a word you hear very often.

-Some of the town's hoodlums...

-..had gathered at the foot

-of the drive to the main entrance...

-..opposite the Crown Court's offices

-and Crossville Garage...

-..as Dolgellau

-used to look back then.

-They were waiting for the Ugandans.

-This is what happened.

-One night a week...

-..the town's cricket team came

-to the school's gym to practise.

-There were cricket nets there.

-This carried on for years...

-..until Merionethshire

-County Council ran out of money.

-It put an end

-to the local boys' cricket practice.

-However, money was made available...

-..to a former solider responsible

-for the running of Tonfanau.

-He was allocated the money...

-..and he knew the Ugandan boys

-were very keen on cricket.

-He arranged with me...

-..that they could use the nets...

-..one night a week.

-The facility was stopped

-for the local boys...

-..but the Ugandans

-were allowed to practise.

-The news spread like wildfire.

-On this particular night...

-..a bunch of hoodlums gathered...

-..at the bottom of the drive.

-I've no doubt...

-..they would've attacked

-the Ugandans who arrived by bus.

-I knew nothing about this,

-of course.

-I was with my wife

-and two little children in 1972...

-..at the schoolhouse in the dark.

-I knew nothing about it.

-But many of the boys and girls

-at the Tonfanau camp...

-..had fallen ill with flu...

-..and they decided

-not to send a busload of them...

-..to the school that night.

-So the bus didn't show up...

-..and the local boys went home

-without any incidents taking place.

-But if they would've arrived...

-..I'm certain

-there would've been a nasty clash.

-Dolgellau and Ysgol Y Gadair

-would've made the headlines...

-..right across Britain.

-You mentioned

-that when they arrived...

-..a few were Muslim

-and a few were Hindu.

-Did that create problems?

-There were regular absences...

-..due to religious festivals.

-They lost a lot of school.

-When they attended,

-they worked hard...

-..but they were absent

-during religious festivals.

-I didn't know

-when these festivals occurred.

-Take Ramadan, for instance.

-The Muslims were off school

-for several days.

-But when they were at school,

-they worked.

-We changed the menu to accommodate

-them in the school refectory.

-We introduced rice, curry

-and all sorts of things.

-Did you have to change many things?

-Was there a Nativity play

-at Christmas?

-There was always some sort of play.

-Usually something by Saunders Lewis.

-There was an awards evening...

-..at which someone famous attended.

-The very first guest

-was Carwyn James.

-The school hall was heaving.

-All the managers were on stage.

-They all wanted to attend...

-..the first awards evening.

-We also held a carol service

-at the end of the Christmas term.

-I remember some of the girls

-coming up to me.

-Some of the Ugandan girls

-came to ask me...

-..if they could take part

-in the carol service...

-..which was a Christian affair.

-The girls were Hindus.

-I remember the clothes they wore.

-They were dressed

-in colourful saris...

-..with gold bracelets

-on their wrists...

-..and a red dot

-in the middle of their foreheads.

-They sang two Hindu songs.

-They were wonderful.

-I remember thinking they were more

-like young ladies than schoolgirls.

-They were so mature and pleasant.

-I imagine

-they had to grow up quickly.

-Yes, that's right.

-They turned out

-like the rest of their families.

-They were

-the cream of the crop in Uganda.

-They were the wealthy, the

-merchants, shopkeepers and bankers.

-Overnight, they were banished

-with nothing but their clothes.

-Did you keep in touch with them,

-or did they keep in touch with you?

-One of them did.

-He kept in touch with me personally

-for many years.

-Karim, the boy with the bloody nose,

-as it happened.

-He was a dear little boy.

-I received

-Christmas cards from him...

-..for about six, seven

-or eight years after that.

-But I could never

-get in touch with him...

-..because he never included

-his address on the card.

-What a pity.

-I often wonder what happened to him.

-They must've had happy memories.

-Yes, they did.

-It was an exciting time, I'm sure.

-Thank you for getting in touch and

-appearing as a guest on Cadw Cwmni.

-Time for a break now.

-When we return, we retrace

-the journeys of poet Waldo...

-..on the back of a bike.

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-Welcome back.

-When Cadw Cwmni

-was appealing for stories...

-..my next guest's name

-regularly popped up.

-A keen cyclist...

-..he's retraced the journeys of his

-hero and uncle, poet Waldo Williams.

-Teifryn Williams,

-welcome to the show.

-Waldo was your uncle

-but how do you remember him?

-I was more interested

-in his bike than his poetry.

-I'm asking you

-about a famous poet...

-..and the first thing you mention

-is his bike.

-Has that always been the case?

-Yes, pretty much.

-I remember going to visit him.

-He was a keen gardener.

-He was a good cook too.

-He made a nice apple tart.

-His wife had died and he had to

-look after himself after that.

-He would occasionally

-go and stay with his sister...

-..but he could look after himself.

-His wife died at a young age.

-He spent the rest of his life alone.

-He never remarried.

-He never remarried.

-

-No, he never did.

-You and Hefin Wyn decided to

-retrace the cycle routes he took...

-..on the back of your bikes...

-..which are

-far more modern than his.

-Did you learn something

-you didn't already know?

-Yes, I did.

-Hefin did a lot of research.

-He did much more

-than we'd done as a family.

-We visited the places he frequented

-as a schoolmaster in England.

-I didn't remember that period of his

-life because I was five years old...

-..when he lived in those areas.

-I didn't know much about that.

-I met former pupils of his...

-..in Botwnnog as well as in England.

-They were very interesting people.

-We stayed a night...

-..in the house where Waldo lived

-as a schoolmaster in Kimbolton.

-People think of Waldo as

-a home bird and a parochial poet...

-..but he travelled a great deal,

-didn't he?

-Yes, indeed.

-He frequently visited Ireland.

-He lived in a non-Welsh-speaking

-area of the county.

-He was born

-in a non-Welsh-speaking area.

-English

-was the language of the home.

-Looking back...

-..it's surprising

-how little research families do...

-..into the lives of their ancestors.

-I think people

-tend to do it more nowadays.

-There's more interest in family

-history than there used to be.

-Maybe they don't want to know

-what happened in the past.

-You never know what you might find.

-What sort of characters

-did you encounter on your travels?

-One of the most interesting

-characters I met was a solicitor.

-He was from Kimbolton.

-Waldo only lived in Kimbolton

-for six months.

-He taught Latin

-to this boy at school.

-He later became a solicitor.

-He said he never would've been a

-solicitor had it not been for Waldo.

-Waldo ensured

-he passed his Latin exam.

-In those days, you had to pass Latin

-to get your certificate.

-What did they think of him?

-I think depression

-played a part in his life.

-I think

-that's where the cycling comes in.

-Cycling can lift one's spirits.

-He did a lot of walking too.

-The fresh air...

-..and outdoor pursuits help a person

-if they're feeling depressed.

-You say he was a man

-who suffered with depression.

-How did he come across to you?

-What kind of uncle was he?

-He was a great. He gave us presents

-every Christmas and played with us.

-He was fond of children.

-He was fond of people in general.

-He had very strong beliefs.

-Very strong.

-I don't know how he stuck to his

-beliefs throughout his lifetime.

-He had a hard life.

-Do you remember him going to jail?

-Do you remember him going to jail?

-

-No, I don't remember it.

-He lived close to Milford Haven,

-where I live now.

-As children, perhaps the family

-had kept it from us.

-I know

-that many people were against it.

-Do you remember

-the furore surrounding it?

-Yes, I remember people saying

-he was a fool for doing it...

-..and that he should

-get a proper job...

-..and not interfere in something

-that had nothing to do with him.

-The bailiffs

-made regular visits too.

-Yes, because

-he refused to pay a single fine.

-They took away all his possessions.

-The carpets on the floor

-and even his bike.

-He had a better bike when he got out

-of prison than he had beforehand.

-So his old bike was confiscated

-before he went in?

-An old three-speed Royal Enfield.

-He got a green Raleigh Lenton Sports

-when he got out.

-You don't remember him going

-to prison but you remember his bike!

-Did someone give him the bike?

-Did someone give him the bike?

-

-Someone bought him a bike...

-..so that he had one

-when he left prison.

-So that he could carry on cycling.

-Going back

-to the journey you made...

-..you're obviously someone

-who enjoys cycling.

-What sort of places

-have you cycled to in the past?

-I've been to Spain...

-..Argentina...

-..France, Ireland...

-..Scotland and England, of course.

-What enjoyment do you get out of it?

-It's more enjoyable after you've

-finished rather than during it.

-You wonder why you do it

-in the wind and rain...

-..but it's worthwhile afterwards.

-It's like hitting your head

-against a wall until you stop.

-In terms of the bike ride

-retracing Waldo's journeys...

-..tell me where you went altogether.

-What springs to mind first of all?

-When you do something like this...

-..the odd things that happen along

-the way tend to stick in the mind.

-We travelled by train to Limerick.

-We had to change trains on the way,

-and it was a comical experience.

-We had to change trains,

-and we had bags and bikes with us.

-I've taken a bike on a train before

-so I knew I had to be quick.

-Hefin took his bike and bag

-off the train...

-..and then he climbed back on board

-and the train left with him on it.

-His bag was with me

-and the train had gone.

-I went up to the guard

-at the station...

-..to tell him what had happened.

-I said it was wrong

-that the train wouldn't let him off.

-He said the train

-wouldn't stop until it reached Cork.

-So I had breakfast

-and he caught the next train back.

-At least they sorted you out.

-Were there any other characters?

-You already mentioned the solicitor.

-I'm sure you met

-many characters along the way.

-The people

-of Botwnnog remember him.

-There was a man in Solva...

-..who lived there half the year

-and the rest of the year in America.

-He was at the same school as Waldo.

-Although his memory was failing,

-he remembered Waldo.

-He'd lived in America for years.

-When you talk to an older person

-whose memory is poor due to age...

-..they remember things

-from long ago...

-..but can't remember

-half an hour ago.

-But he remembered his school days...

-..and talked a lot about Waldo

-and the influence he had on him.

-He's since passed away...

-..but his wife still comes

-to events to do with Waldo.

-There are plenty of those.

-Even more nowadays.

-You say people's attitude towards

-him in Pembrokeshire has changed.

-In what way?

-Everyone I meet these days claims

-to have been friends with him.

-But I don't think they were

-as fond of him then as they are now.

-Attitudes have changed.

-Society's attitude

-or people's attitude?

-People these days

-understand what he was trying to do.

-He was ahead of his time.

-He cycled and spent time gardening.

-He went walking in shorts.

-Nobody his age

-went waking in shorts in those days.

-I remember him going

-to night school in Mynachlog Ddu...

-..when he lived in Milford Haven.

-It was a long way to cycle.

-Clunderwen is 20 miles away...

-..and Mynachlog Ddu

-is another six miles away.

-He'd call by on his way there.

-He must've started out

-in the afternoon...

-..to attend night classes

-which lasted two hours...

-..and then cycled home.

-The bike ride's over and Hefin Wyn

-has written a book about it.

-How do you fill your days now?

-How do you fill your days now?

-

-There's plenty going on.

-I'm currently on a course,

-training to be a tour guide.

-That takes up a lot of my time.

-I read a lot, go on holiday

-and cycle every day.

-Cycling is a full-time job!

-Thanks for joining me.

-Safe journey home on the bike.

-Thank you for keeping me company

-on Cadw Cwmni.

-Thank you for watching.

-We'll be back next week

-with more guests.

-Until then, goodbye.

-S4C Subtitles by Adnod Cyf.

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