Pennod 4 Cadw Cwmni gyda John Hardy

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-Welcome to Cadw Cwmni

-with me, John Hardy.

-Everyone has a story to tell...

-..and this series provides

-a platform for them to be heard.

-Today's theme is the supernatural.

-Before we explore faith healing...

-..we meet two people...

-..who communicate with

-the spirit world and lost souls.

-Elwyn Edwards and Ceri Hughes,

-welcome to the programme.

-Elwyn, when did you first realize

-you could communicate with spirits?

-It was 1986, and my wife

-and I had bought carpets...

-..from a large house

-that had been vacated.

-One Saturday morning, three of us

-went to lift the old carpets.

-My uncle was with me.

-He'd been through all the rooms

-downstairs, apart from one.

-Walking into that room

-was like stepping into an icebox.

-A gust of cold air surrounded me and

-the hairs on my arms stood on end.

-A chill went down my spine.

-I couldn't understand what was

-happening. There was a loud bang.

-But the room was empty.

-No-one else was in there.

-We went upstairs but found nothing.

-We were nearing the end of the job

-and it was starting to get dark.

-I said to the wife

-and the lad who was with us...

-.."You finish this room

-and I'll start on the other."

-I walked in

-and it was sweltering inside.

-It was completely different

-from all the other rooms.

-The street lights were on,

-casting shadows across the window...

-..like lightning.

-I thought a tree outside

-was casting shadows.

-But I knew there were no trees

-in the vicinity.

-I couldn't explain it.

-The others came in

-and helped me roll up the carpet.

-I leant up against the wall

-and a loud bang occurred beside me.

-The most putrid smell

-filled the room.

-I was scared stiff, so I ran out.

-It took my breath away.

-I was clueless as to what it was.

-I returned on the Monday night

-to sell some of the furniture...

-..to a local person.

-We walked into the cold room

-and heard a bang.

-He said, "He's still here.

-Come on, let's go."

-"What do you mean?" I said.

-"I lived here for 18 months. There's

-something wrong with this place."

-He was so scared, he didn't return.

-After that, I contacted

-Elwyn Roberts, Llandegai...

-..and he came over.

-It was the spirit

-of a little boy who had drowned...

-..in 1938.

-He was about 10 years old.

-The boy who lived in the house

-had seen him several times.

-That's when it began.

-How old were you at the time?

-I was in my forties.

-For you, Ceri, you started seeing

-spirits much sooner than this.

-I think I started seeing spirits

-at a very young age.

-But when I was eight years old...

-..I was riding a horse...

-..on the old road between

-Llanfair Talhaiarn and Llangernyw...

-..when the horse

-came to a complete standstill.

-I looked up...

-..and there was forestry

-on both sides of the road.

-I saw a monk come through the trees.

-He was walking very slowly

-through the trees.

-The horse bolted and galloped

-for about half a mile...

-..before stopping suddenly

-and carrying on as normal.

-Did you ever see that monk again?

-I think so. We were

-having problems in the house.

-Elwyn came to visit us.

-When the children were babies...

-..their toys

-would start playing by themselves.

-One of the rooms at home was cold

-and I didn't like going in there.

-There was a really nasty smell

-emanating from a small cupboard.

-I think it was the spirit...

-..of the monk

-that was inhabiting our house.

-So you went over there, Elwyn?

-Yes, I made a mistake.

-We went upstairs

-and I fell into a deep trance.

-Elwyn taught me

-that if I went into a deep trance...

-..I was to put my hand here

-and take three deep breaths.

-But I've stopped doing that

-since that night.

-During this deep trance, I could see

-the monk and a burning monastery.

-I saw soldiers slaying monks and

-they strangled this particular monk.

-His name was Rhygyfarch ab Einion.

-I think he was from Maenan.

-But he might've been

-from near Llangollen.

-He was strangled

-and I relived his death.

-You relived the death?

-You relived the death?

-

-Yes, while I was in this trance.

-But somehow I got out of it.

-I'm not sure if the monk

-has completely left the house.

-Is it OK at home now?

-It's not bad.

-Why's that?

-Not all of them have left. I see

-spirits approaching the front door.

-That happens often,

-as if they're about to enter.

-Does it frighten you?

-Does it frighten you?

-

-I don't want to see them, you know.

-If I enter a bedroom, I just think,

-"I don't want to see you, thanks."

-Is it just you who sees them

-or do the children see them too?

-Does your husband see them?

-Does your husband see them?

-

-My husband doesn't.

-I think one of my children

-can sense something.

-Is it something

-you're born with, Elwyn?

-Yes, every one of us...

-..is born psychic.

-Some people

-choose not to use their gift.

-Children are incredibly psychic.

-Many children have difficulties.

-Parents think they're

-talking to an imaginary friend...

-..when often

-they're talking to a spirit.

-And when you walk into a room...

-..do you ever get the sensation...

-..that something's wrong

-or do you feel a presence?

-For example,

-when you entered this room...

-..did you sense anything here?

-Something comes and goes

-but you have to block it.

-There are so many

-other people in the room too.

-I sensed there were a lot

-in the green room.

-So did I. What did you sense?

-I just felt their presence.

-I just felt their presence.

-

-Yes, I did as well.

-In the green room,

-while you were waiting to come on...

-..you could sense spirits

-coming and going in there?

-The truth of the matter is,

-they're everywhere.

-They're even in the car.

-It can be day or night.

-It's the person,

-or the psychic, who counts.

-Do you see these people

-or do you sense them?

-There are two ways of seeing them.

-Some people see them walking.

-I see them in my mind.

-There are two ways.

-We also get impressions.

-For example, a person from London...

-..a Welshman...

-..who's since crossed the border...

-..bought watercolour paintings.

-Many of them were behind glass.

-The paintings

-started to change at night.

-Things were added to the paintings.

-Colours were more pronounced

-and birds were added.

-He had a maid, but she was

-too scared to enter the house.

-He told me about it and I had

-an image of a painter in my mind.

-He had a small beard.

-It was a black and white image.

-He wore a beret on his head.

-His name was Jacques. He was French.

-That's all I knew.

-Four of us

-went to a spiritualist evening...

-..a few nights later in Harlech.

-They were held every Monday night.

-I didn't know anyone there.

-One of the men taking part

-pointed to me and said...

-.."Keep on

-with the French connection.

-"You're on the right track."

-I'd never seen him before.

-The man who owned the paintings...

-..took them to a place like Bonhams

-in London to get them valued.

-The man told him that Jack Martin

-paintings were of little value.

-"Who's that?" he said.

-"He was

-a famous painter in his time.

-"We've a catalogue of painters."

-He looked through it

-and came across Jack Martin, 1850.

-He'd lived in France for 20 years...

-..which proves it was the spirit.

-Do you know why they come back?

-Is there a reason?

-Some come back whenever they choose.

-They cross over for a chat.

-I get it all the time.

-Others can't cross over.

-That's when difficulties arise.

-They leave this world, for example,

-in a car accident or suicide...

-..and they can't cross over.

-I help a spirit

-find a way of crossing over...

-..by calling back

-one of his/her family members.

-The mother, usually.

-A spirit then leaves with the mother

-and the problem's resolved.

-Can you pick and choose

-when you contact them?

-I've been asked that question

-many times for different reasons.

-One woman wanted to know...

-..why her father

-left her very little in his will...

-..believe it or not.

-But it's up to the person

-on the other side.

-It's up to him or her.

-It's the spirit who decides

-whether or not to contact me.

-What do you say to those

-who think you're making all this up?

-I've nothing to prove.

-I don't expect those who've

-never experienced it to believe me.

-Ceri knows. It's up to people

-what they want to believe.

-I've one last question.

-Are you religious people?

-Do you believe in God

-and the Holy Spirit?

-Yes, I do. I'm not a regular chapel

-goer, although I belong to a chapel.

-But I do believe in God.

-Is this

-the flip side of the coin, Elwyn?

-Like Ceri,

-I believe in Christianity.

-I once asked a monk, "Who's God?"

-He said, "There is no God."

-This monk lived in 1293.

-"What is God then?"

-"God is the shared common belief...

-"..when likeminded people

-come together.

-"That's God."

-The coming together to worship.

-That's his explanation.

-Thank you very much

-for keeping me company.

-It's fitting

-that we end with religion...

-..since faith healing

-is our next topic.

-Ceri and Elwyn, thank you very much.

-It's time for a break now.

-I'll be joined

-by two more guests in Part 2.

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-Welcome back.

-Our next topic is faith healing.

-Joining me are mother and daughter,

-Margaret and Mererid Jones.

-Welcome to you both.

-Let me start with you, Mererid,

-and your malady.

-What exactly was your illness?

-In 1993 I fell ill. I was a teacher

-at Ysgol Friars at the time.

-It was the end of my first year

-and I caught a nasty bout of flu.

-There was lots to do,

-so I battled on regardless.

-The summer holidays

-soon approached...

-..and when the new term started,

-I knew something was wrong.

-I was preparing lesson plans

-and so on...

-..but I had difficulty remembering

-what it was I was meant to teach.

-As the month went on...

-..I was having difficulty moving

-from one classroom to the other.

-I didn't have my own classroom,

-I moved around.

-What was the doctor's diagnosis?

-He didn't know at the time.

-It takes time for ME

-to be diagnosed.

-It was the end of November when I

-was finally diagnosed with ME.

-It must've been

-a difficult time for the family.

-Yes, it was because we didn't know

-what was going to happen.

-Mererid had bought a house...

-..but she'd only moved in a month...

-..before starting work

-in the September.

-The plan was for my son Gwion

-to live with her too.

-But that dream was shattered

-and she had to return home.

-We helped each other through it.

-You had your own ill health

-to deal with, didn't you?

-Not during that time, no.

-Not during that time, no.

-

-It was Spring 1996.

-I found a lump in my breast.

-When I visited the doctor

-I feared the worst.

-My face said it all

-when I returned home.

-I'm sure you felt hopeless at times.

-When did you

-turn to religion, Mererid?

-I'd had a Sunday school upbringing.

-I played the organ in chapel

-and so on.

-During my time teaching at Ysgol

-Friars, I'd say I was agnostic.

-I taught the children

-some religious education...

-..but that's as far as it went.

-During the first three years

-of having ME...

-..there'd been talk of faith healing

-services in the chapel...

-..but I didn't want to know

-at the time.

-It sounded strange to me

-and scared me a little.

-But Mam's illness

-made us open to alternatives.

-We'd reached the point

-where we were desperate, in a way.

-The stakes were higher.

-Were you eager to take the reins,

-Margaret?

-Not at all. I wondered

-what the heck it was all about!

-I'd never entertained the idea.

-But we had a very kind

-chapel minister at the time.

-All the local people

-rallied around...

-..and supported us.

-After a little persuasion,

-I went to Lampeter...

-..to the healing ministry,

-not knowing what to expect.

-Although I didn't know anyone,

-I received such a warm welcome.

-I was made to feel very comfortable.

-Religious services were held.

-We'd get up

-and hold morning services...

-..which included hymn singing.

-We sung these hymns,

-and if you were a Welsh speaker...

-..you sang them in Welsh.

-Those who couldn't speak Welsh

-sang them in English. It was fun.

-I understand a special service

-was held at the end of the course?

-Yes, it was a service of blessing...

-..where people

-laid their hands on you.

-I was a touch uncertain

-and reluctant to go.

-It was foreign to me.

-But anyway, I put myself forward...

-..and asked that Mererid and me

-would be blessed.

-Following the service,

-we had the opportunity...

-..to buy cassettes of the meetings.

-I knew Mererid would've appreciated

-them because they'd helped me...

-..pass the time.

-The following day, I listened to

-the initial service on cassette.

-I was unaware that Mam

-had asked them to pray for me.

-I was resting on my bed

-one afternoon...

-..feeling the effects of the ME.

-The second hymn I listened to

-was I Dduw Y Bo'r Gogoniant.

-All of a sudden, I was overcome

-with the strangest of sensations.

-It's hard to put into words...

-..but it was like an electric

-current had washed over me...

-..and my breathing became deeper.

-Something very unusual

-had come over me.

-It lasted for quite some time.

-In the end,

-I was filled with enormous joy...

-..and cried tears of happiness.

-I felt certain

-that I would be cured.

-It happened that quickly?

-It happened that quickly?

-

-The certainty of it did, yes...

-..although it took me a while

-to fully recover.

-You'd been struck by

-the realization of it all.

-But how long

-did it take you to recover?

-In all honesty, it took 10 years.

-It was May 2007.

-This time, I was joined by a friend

-who was also suffering from ME.

-She'd come to stay with me.

-A similar thing

-happened suddenly once again.

-I felt

-an electrical charge once again.

-Was it the same kind of feeling?

-Yes, it was,

-though it felt a little different...

-..in that I felt

-physically manipulated.

-It was if my muscles and joints

-were being treated as well.

-I felt the effects

-immediately afterwards.

-I was steadier on my feet.

-It's interesting that you said...

-..you were agnostic

-before these experiences.

-We were open to everything

-but hadn't analyzed it too deeply.

-Faith healing

-incurs deeper emotions.

-An experience like this

-encourages you...

-..to practise it.

-Did you ever think of praying

-for yourself during your illness?

-Yes, I did.

-I take nothing for granted.

-But you put yourself

-in other people's hands...

-..such as doctors and nurses.

-Do you still attend

-the Alpha Course?

-Yes, we do. When was the last time?

-That was during the 1990s.

-Similar courses

-have been introduced since then.

-Different ministers

-have come and gone too.

-Are the services

-like chapel services?

-What exactly do they entail?

-It's similar to a chapel service.

-It involves a bit of everything,

-to be honest.

-There's hymn singing,

-as I already mentioned.

-Welsh-language and English language

-renditions are sung in unison.

-Everybody enjoys

-each other's company.

-Speakers share their experiences

-during the services.

-Are they reminiscent

-of American gospel services?

-No, they're not at all like that.

-They're more of a coming together...

-..of friends.

-It's a chapel service

-to begin with...

-..followed by a healing session

-with hands being placed on you.

-When I attended, three sets

-of couples stood at the front...

-..and individuals, in their turn,

-went up to them...

-..and asked them to pray

-for themselves or for others.

-Is it held in a chapel or a hall?

-Usually it's in a hall.

-Recent services

-have been held at Gregynog...

-..in the music room there.

-But they were held

-in a chapel in Lampeter.

-A place of worship isn't necessary?

-No.

-As I mentioned, we discussed

-the supernatural world in Part 1.

-What do you say to people who say

-that faith healing is nonsense?

-When people turn to you and say...

-.."There must be

-another reason for your recovery"...

-..what do you tell them?

-Every one of us

-is made up of mind, body and soul.

-Sometimes you can't always explain

-the reason for things.

-Since we all have

-a mind, body and soul...

-..you take

-whatever help is out there.

-You go to the doctor.

-If you open yourself up

-to religion...

-..you get a boost in other ways.

-It's not an easy topic to discuss...

-..and we haven't

-spoken about it much with anyone.

-Some viewers might think, "Hm!"

-But there you go.

-Thank you very much

-for joining me on Cadw Cwmni.

-It's an inspiring story. Thank you.

-That's it for another week.

-There's a place for your stories

-here on S4C, so do get in touch.

-Until next time,

-from me, John Hardy, goodbye.

-S4C Subtitles by Adnod Cyf.

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