Episode 12 Debatable

APPLAUSE

Hello and welcome to Debatable, the quiz show where talk is cheap

but celebrity chat can win a contestant money.

Today, one player must answer a series of tricky questions

to try to bag our jackpot of ?2,000.

But they are not on their own,

as they'll also have a panel of celebrity brainboxes

debating their way to the answer.

Will they help, or will they hinder? Well, that's debatable.

So, let's meet them.

On today's show, we have...

journalist Rachel Johnson...

we have reporter Michael Buerk...

and broadcaster and campaigner

June Sarpong.

APPLAUSE

So, that's the panel.

Let's meet today's contestant.

It is Daniel Chapman from Norwich.

How are you doing, sir? I'm great, thanks.

What do you get up to in Norwich?

I'm a personal tutor for children of secondary school age,

get them through their science GCSEs and A-levels.

And also, your girlfriend has one of the greatest jobs in the world.

She sells wine for a living. (She sells wine for a living!)

Which is excellent,

cos it means there's always lots of wine in the house.

Tends to bring home two or three bottles a week, which is good.

I mean, I'm very sorry for your trouble. I know.

That's a terrible affliction, it really is.

Are you ready to play? I am.

OK, let's get this Debatable show on the road and play Round One.

Daniel, this round is multiple choice.

Each question has four possible answers but only one is correct.

Now, helping you find the correct answer is our panel.

Will you go with what they say or will you go your own way?

It's ultimately down to you.

There's two questions in this round

and each correct answer banks you ?200

which will go into your prize pot,

which you will be playing for in our Final Debate at the end of the show.

All set? Yeah. Best of luck, fella.

Let's get cracking. Here we go. OK. Here's your first question.

Well, I don't know for sure what the answer to that is going to be

but I think there's a couple of things on there that I can rule out.

And they would be? I'm going to keep those close.

Oh, you are? I'll keep those close.

I don't want to influence the panel,

I want to get a feeling

for how they're going to be helping me along in this.

Cagey player! Mm. We've got a cagey player from the get-go here.

Daniel, this only works on the basis of mutual trust.

Oh, OK. That's a very good start, Daniel,

you've really endeared yourself to the panel(!) Yes!

They really want to work for you.

Might start giving you wrong answers now.

OK, guys, here we go.

For what reason were the 1908 Olympics

moved from Italy to Great Britain?

It's the first debate of the show.

Your debate starts now.

Do you know, Michael? Erm...I know a few things.

The 1908 Olympics were held in the old White City Stadium,

which was by the old BBC Television Centre.

And if you went round the back of the BBC Television Centre,

there is a big plaque listing the medal winners.

Really? And Great Britain won more medals, gold, silver and bronze...

Home advantage. ..not only than any other nation,

but all the other nations in the world put together...

Wow. By a big margin, because we were best at everything at the time.

Then. Yeah. But looking at these options, well,

World War I didn't start until 1914, so, I mean...

Yeah, so that's out. ..that's out of the question.

Spanish flu was at the end of World War I

and killed almost as many people, didn't it?

More. Millions. It killed more. Millions of people.

But that was at the end of World War I.

Yeah. Extreme heat wave...

But then where do you go, June, between the other two?

Well, Mount Vesuvius...

I mean, unless the Games were supposed to be on the site... Yeah.

..of where the volcano was exploding,

why would that affect it? Exactly.

So we are left with one thing, which is extreme hotness.

Yes. I think... Are we agreed?

And we're not talking about you, Patrick.

Or you, Daniel.

Yes, you, Daniel.

I hope... I hope this accords with your own view, Daniel,

but frankly, given your attitude, I...

Are we agreed?

Yeah. Extreme hotness.

Are we agreed? We think, the panel thinks, extreme heat wave.

OK, they've gone for extreme heat.

You were playing your cards close to your chest, there, Daniel.

Was that one of the answers you were originally thinking about?

Yeah, I think I'm happy with the panel's reasoning,

so I'm happy to go with extreme heat wave.

It's pretty good logic you're going with.

Well, yeah. If the answer's right, it is.

If not, then no. Yeah.

So, you were saying that the 1908 Olympics

were moved from Italy to Great Britain

because of an extreme heat wave.

It's for ?200.

Correct answer is...

Mount Vesuvius erupted, Daniel. No! Really?

Despite having only two years to prepare,

London in 1908 was the first Games to have a purpose-built stadium.

There it is. Michael was right, there it is - White City.

And the reason why the Mount Vesuvius eruption close to Naples

cancelled the Olympics was

it was so expensive to actually rebuild after the Vesuvius eruption

that they couldn't afford to stage their own Olympics.

OK. Never mind. Look, there's lots of time,

lots of money still to put into that prize pot.

Let's see if we can get the cash up with question two.

Here we go.

If you were going to make a guess, what would it be? Erm...

I just, on the basis that possibly Ian Fleming

is a bit more of a sort of local hero

rather than a sort of international superstar,

maybe I would have gone with Ian Fleming.

You're edging towards Ian Fleming.

Our well-travelled panel should be able to easily sort this out.

Let's hand it over to them.

Your debate starts now.

I have never landed at any airport of any of these names, have you?

No. I'm trying to think.

I've been to Jamaica a few times, but I can't...

Yeah... I landed in Montego Bay,

and it doesn't say Ian Fleming International Airport.

No. I bet you Ian Fleming has got an airport named after him in Jamaica.

Do you think so? Yeah, I bet you he has.

I... I really disagree with you, June, I really do.

OK. I don't think people in Jamaica... I think it's Ian Fleming.

..would name an airport after a foreign author.

But I don't think they would consider him as a foreigner

in Jamaica. I think they would sort of consider him as their own.

I'm not sure they'd name one after a white writer who lived in Goldeneye.

No. I bet they would. I went to the villa -

it's very nice, his villa in Jamaica.

I thought it was all really rather basic. No, it's not.

It's lovely because it goes down to a beach

and then there's a man with a little boat

who talks to you about Ian Fleming.

Yeah. I hope he's still there.

Pele. I mean, Pele is such a towering figure

in the world of sport.

Brazil is so huge, they have got so many airports in so many places.

So many airports! Belo Horizonte, Recife and Rio and Sao Paolo...

Must be one called Pele. But he's alive, isn't he?

Yeah, he is alive. He'd still have one. You don't have to be dead.

Yeah. Is a Calcutta airport called Mother Teresa International Airport?

Calcutta. Kolkata. Kolkata.

Kolkata. Is New Orleans after Louis Armstrong?

You'd think they'd probably, somewhere... Yeah.

Somewhere in the South? Yeah. Louis Armstrong we're agreed on. Yes.

Mother Teresa, surely she must have an airport.

I'm going Calcutta. Kolkata. I think Ian. I think Ian Fleming.

I think Ian Fleming. I think Ian Fleming.

I'm happy to go with you both, so... Are you sure? Yeah. OK.

June won't be to blame.

The panel has come to a majority decision

that the one of these that hasn't got an international airport

named after them is the James Bond author Ian Fleming.

Lots to chew over there, Daniel.

Yeah. Rachel, of course, has stayed at the Ian Fleming Villa.

June, of course, thinks that Ian Fleming

WOULD possibly have an airport named after him in Jamaica.

Yes, not the clear answer I was potentially hoping for.

No. But I agree about Pele and Louis Armstrong,

I thought that Louis Armstrong might have been New Orleans.

Mother Teresa, I don't know.

Because I think she was Albanian, wasn't she?

Yeah. I think maybe if you were going to name an airport in Albania

after anyone it would have to be her. Good point.

I think I'm going to stick with Ian Fleming.

OK. Good knowledge from you, Daniel,

you're going to stick with Ian Fleming.

For ?200, let's see the correct answer.

The correct answer was Pele.

Oh, God. It beat everyone. Yeah.

There is a Louis Armstrong International Airport

in New Orleans,

We got to that one. Ian Fleming International Airport is in Jamaica.

See? RACHEL: Whereabouts, do you know?

I believe it is actually in Saint Mary. OK. OK.

Mother Teresa has an airport named after her in Tirana in Albania.

ALL: Well done, Daniel!

And not Calcutta, Rachel.

So, our panel no use on that one.

Let's see if they are any better with pictures.

It is time for Round Two.

Daniel, Round Two is our picture round.

All you have to do is place three pictures in the correct order.

There are two questions in this round.

Don't worry, we haven't got any money in the prize pot yet,

but each correct answer in this round is worth ?300.

So, here we go.

Well, feeling reasonably confident

that at least the panel's going to be a bit of help.

So if you had to go for one at this stage, what do you think?

I would assume that Tony Blair was the youngest.

He looked pretty young during that sort of campaign times.

And then Thatcher was Prime Minister for so long

that she must have been quite young when she started.

So I would go Blair, Thatcher, Major.

You are going Blair, Thatcher, Major.

The good news is

that we have probably one of the greatest political panels

that has ever been assembled in this country.

This should be a piece of cake.

Absolutely no pressure.

Over to you, panel, your debate starts now.

Oh... It's a doddle, isn't it?

Yeah. It's a doddle.

The wild card...

Is between Thatcher and Major.

..is that John Major was younger than you'd think

because, you know, he tended to have an older image about him.

But he was in his 40s when he became Prime Minister. Thatcher was 50.

No, she was...

She became Prime Minister in 1979... And she was... BOTH: ..born in 1925.

Which is 54. 54, yeah. Oh, is it 54? She was 54.

OK.

Tony Blair... Was a baby.

Daniel must be right - Tony Blair was in his early 40s, wasn't he?

Yes, he was. 43? He was 44.

44. I think 44. Yeah.

John Major, he would have been...

Who have I got?

I've got Tony. I think he would have been... 50... ..in his 40s,

but older than Tony Blair, don't you think? Yes.

I think 43.

Pass me Tony Blair. There you go. Breaking the scenery.

Can you pass me Maggie?

Just the person you'd want.

My favourite(!)

Absolutely.

So, that is the decision of the panel - Tony Blair the youngest,

John Major actually younger than you'd probably think at 47,

and Margaret Thatcher was the oldest

when she became Prime Minister.

That was outstandingly specific, wasn't it?

Yeah. I think I'd be mad not to go with it on that basis.

I think, even though it's not quite what I thought...

So you're going to go with the panel? Yeah, absolutely.

So you went for Tony Blair, John Major and Margaret Thatcher,

as did our panel.

Is that the correct order?

It is the correct order!

APPLAUSE At last we're up and running.

Well done, ?300.

I have to say, Michael, what a performance that was.

You were actually only out a year on two of those prime ministers.

Oh, was I? Tony Blair, 43 years old,

John Major was 47 years old...

That's what he said. ..and Margaret Thatcher was 53 years.

300 quid in the prize pot.

OK, let's have a look at question two.

Are you a fan of Radio 4?

I was born and raised on a diet of Radio 4, for better or for worse.

For better, clearly.

Well, it certainly seems to be paying off now.

Big fan of Just A Minute

and Nicholas Parsons in general.

Desert Island Discs...

Again, I'm just not convinced that was on at a time

that I really paid attention to it

but I know that it's been through a lot of hosts

over a long period of time,

and obviously The Archers has been going since the beginning of time,

as far as I know. So, basically, for a man born and raised on Radio 4,

you have no clue.

No, I think basically all I got from that

was that I've heard of these three things.

Never fear, our panel is here

to shed some light on this.

Panel, your debate starts now.

Well, I'm a huge fan of The Archers,

which has been going forever.

Roy Plomley came up with the idea of Desert Island Discs

and did it for a long time, didn't he?

And then it was Sue Lawley.

Yeah. And then Kirsty Young.

And Kirsty was brilliant.

Brilliant. Mm.

But I don't think it's quite the same...

Just A Minute... Just A Minute,

I think that's a more recent programme.

It also looks more modern in the logo, doesn't it?

But that could have been... Yes, yes, yes.

So, we can rule out Just A Minute.

That is obviously the newest.

My grandmother used to listen to The Archers and I think she's...

I remember my mum saying that she had been listening to The Archers

from the beginning... Mm.

..and I think The Archers started in the '50s

or right at the beginning of the '50s. Mm, yes. Yes.

So I think that's the oldest, don't you?

No, I think Desert Island Discs is the oldest,

and I think The Archers...

I'm sure you're wrong. I'm sure that started before the war.

No. Or in the war.

Roy Plomley came up with it,

and he was doing it in the late '50s, early '60s,

something like that. Right, what about you?

OK, Desert Island Discs, The Archers, Just A Minute.

Desert Island Discs? You're Desert Island Discs?

It goes for me, the order,

Desert Island Discs, The Archers, Just A Minute.

I think you're wrong.

I think it's Archers, Desert Island Discs, Just A Minute.

But I'm a democrat, so, by majority vote, entirely wrongly,

the panel thinks that Desert Island Discs...

(They think that Desert Island Discs is the oldest!)

The Archers second,

Just A Minute the newest of the Radio 4 programmes.

So I think we can safely say that is a unanimous decision by our panel(!)

Michael adamant that this is the wrong order,

he has gone along with the rest of the panel.

What are we thinking, Daniel, after that?

I don't think I can overlook the fact

that I'm pretty sure The Archers has been on forever,

and so I still think that - sorry, panel -

I'm going to be putting that in as my oldest one,

because I've got grandparents

who've always listened to The Archers, as well.

And then for the others,

I didn't realise that Desert Island Discs had such a rich history,

so I think I'm happy to have that one in the middle

and Just A Minute be the latest one.

So you're agreeing with Michael -

Michael looking slightly smug in the middle there.

Well... So, for ?300...

is The Archers followed by Desert Island Discs and Just A Minute

the correct order?

It's the wrong order!

I'm sorry, Daniel.

They're going to be right, aren't they? Sorry, Michael.

Let's see what the correct order actually was.

Ugh!

Rachel.. Should have listened to me!

..you were right to stick to your guns there. I should.

Desert Island Discs, then The Archers then Just A Minute.

Desert Island Discs was 1942,

then The Archers in 1950... Oh!

..and Just A Minute, 1967.

Nice. Well, you were right, Rachel.

You were both right. So, Daniel,

after that heated debate,

how do we think our panel is doing?

It's one each for the two women, I think,

and nothing for Michael in terms of this sort of argument.

All right, all right!

So, let's see where we go on Round Three.

So, in this round, Daniel,

you face a question containing three statements about a person,

a place or a thing.

Only one of those statements is true.

You must decide which one it is.

There are two questions in this round,

and we're going to try and get this cash up for you.

You're only on 300, so it is 500 for each correct answer

in this round, OK? Here's your first question.

They all look like they might be true, unfortunately.

I was hoping there may be one that I could rule out straight away.

The good news is that our panel was really good

on old radio shows, and so they could be even better on old films(!)

The confidence we can see oozing from our panel.

Let's see if they can help you out.

Panel, your debate starts now.

Come on, Rachel. I think that the Citizen Kane one is a slight red...

I think it's designed to mislead us,

because that was in black and white. It was in black and white.

And Gone With The Wind was in gorgeous, saturating colour.

Yeah. But I think that that came before Citizen Kane.

Yeah, yeah. I think that's a trick question.

I think that's a trick question -

and I think that Clark Gable didn't win an Oscar.

No. No. I think famously he didn't.

Yeah. And it was just before the Second World War.

It was. Late '30s, maybe even '39.

I think it was '39... I think it's the last one.

Yeah, and I think the novel was 1930, I think the novel came out.

So, it would be in the same decade.

Yeah. It took about a decade to read the book, as I remember it.

It was about 1,000 pages long.

But what I want is to get June...

to do the famous line.

"Frankly, my dear..."

"I don't give a damn!"

Well done, well done. "Rhett, Rhett! Rhett, Rhett!"

Yeah. People used to say I look a bit like Clark Gable.

Oh, and you still do, Michael. You still do!

They don't say it any more.

You've got a bit of a Clark about you.

So, anyway, where are we?

We're going for number three.

Novel and film released in the same decade.

Definitely Clark Gable didn't win an Oscar. No, no.

Vivien Leigh did. Yeah. I think, you think, you think... Yes.

the panel thinks the novel and the film

were released in the same decade.

So, our panel have gone for saying the novel and the film

were released in the same decade.

It was nice of them to pick out

that Clark Gable didn't win the Best Actor Oscar -

I'd never heard that before, so that was really helpful.

And I hadn't even considered

the whole colour and black and white issue,

so, yes, I think in the face of that kind of film knowledge,

it would be silly for me to argue,

so I think I'm happy to go with them as well.

So, Daniel, you are agreeing with the panel.

You are going for C,

the novel and the film were released in the same decade.

Is C the correct statement, for ?500?

It is the correct answer!

APPLAUSE We got there in the end.

Well done.

The film, 1939,

and the novel was released in 1936.

So, well played.

We are now up to ?800.

APPLAUSE

Starting to look a bit healthier.

It's starting to look a bit healthier

and we still have another question before our Final Debate,

so let's see if we can get this up to ?1,300.

Here's the second question of the round.

Are you a man for the gee-gees?

Do you like a bit of a gamble, Daniel?

No, to be perfectly honest.

Not a huge horse racing fan.

So, basically, pretend that this is the Grand National

and do what all of us do on the morning of the Grand National.

If you had to stick a pin in one of those, what would it be?

I think I'm feeling B at the moment.

OK, he's feeling that it may be B.

Let's see if our panel can get you up to ?1,300.

Over to you. Your debate starts now.

Um... Yeah, this is tricky.

The only thing I do know is it doesn't take place before...

I am a rugby fan. The 2016 Six Nations started...

February? The beginning of February, yeah.

It runs February and into March, doesn't it?

The Grand National is in April. It's in April,

or end of March at the earliest. It's in April, I know that.

So that's wrong. So that is definitely wrong.

On the cancellation... It was cancelled once...

It was cancelled for foot and mouth, I think.

Oh, yeah! I think that was right.

I think it was cancelled in the war, as well. Oh, yeah, maybe.

So that's wrong, that's wrong,

so it must be - first staged in the 19th century. Yeah. So, are you...?

You agree? Yes. First staged in the 19th century is the true thing.

Yeah. Are we agreed on that?

Yeah. Yeah. So, the panel unanimously thinks, perhaps wrongly,

that the answer is C, that it was first staged in the 19th century.

So, Daniel, which one do you feel?

Yeah, I hadn't even considered that, obviously,

there have been two world wars and foot and mouth in between,

so it does seem likely that it might have been cancelled more than once.

So, yes, I'll put the last bit of faith in the panel

and we'll say that it was first staged in the 19th century.

Go with them. OK.

So, you are going with C, first staged in the 19th century.

If it's correct, we add ?500 to your prize pot

and you play for 1,300 in the Final Debate.

Let's see. Is C the true statement?

It is the correct answer!

APPLAUSE Well done.

Well played.

The Grand National was first staged in 1839.

The Six Nations, of course, was in February 2016,

the Grand National - you were right, Rachel - it was in April.

It was actually cancelled more than once.

It was cancelled in 1993 due to a couple of false starts,

it was also cancelled during the First World War

and the Second World War.

But none of that matters

because we are now up to a prize pot of ?1,300.

Hooray!

APPLAUSE

Well, there is just one question

that stands between you and that ?1,300

and that is today's Final Debate.

You'll face one question.

The question has six possible answers but only three are correct.

Now, to win the cash, we need you to identify all three.

OK. As before, you're not going to be playing alone,

but as this is the Final Debate

we're going to make life a little bit more tricky

by allowing you to access only one of our celebrity panel.

So you and your celebrity will have 45 seconds to debate the question.

So now, Daniel, based on their performances in the show so far,

who would you like to join you for the final?

Well, erm, I think I'm probably going to go with June because...

RACHEL: Good choice. Wise.

DANIEL: For the airport question, she was the one who managed to...

Yeah. RACHEL: Ian Fleming.

DANIEL: Stick with her right answer

in the face of the majority vote the other way.

So, June, would you please join Daniel as we play our Final Debate?

APPLAUSE

So, June, Daniel has chosen you for the Final Debate.

Yes. He thinks you are the perfect complement for this round.

I hope so. How does that make you feel? I'm very flattered.

I hope I don't let you down, Daniel.

Me too. LAUGHTER

Cheers(!)

OK, because we're so nice here at Debatable

we're going to give you two categories, Daniel, to choose from.

OK. OK. So have a look at these.

These are our Final Debate categories.

I'm better with Music. You're better with Music? Yeah.

I'm probably stronger on Geography.

OK, go with what you want. So...

I think it would be a little unfair

to kind of put all the burden on you. OK.

So I think Geography is definitely going to be my one to go for.

So you're going for Geography. Yeah. OK.

Best of luck. OK.

?1,300 up for grabs.

So here is today's 45-second Final Debate question.

Oh, OK.

Daniel and June, for the final time,

your 45-second debate starts now.

The UK is 66 million, isn't it? Yeah.

I think that the UK...

possibly, and France I'm pretty confident with.

It's sort of the third one, but I would sort of be needing...

Well, not needing help,

but we can kind of come to a conclusion together, hopefully.

I wouldn't rule Germany out.

Yeah. I...

Yeah, well... That would have been my first thought.

I don't know how many people there are in Poland or...

Spain. Italy, I think there's...

I can think of a lot of big cities in Italy and I can't think of...

15 seconds. ..that many big German cities.

But I don't know if that actually means anything. Mm.

Maybe the ones that there are are even bigger.

But Germany feels like the biggest powerhouse, doesn't it? Yeah.

So maybe... Considering how powerful their economy is, as well.

Yeah, there's got to be people doing something there. Yeah.

Time is up.

We need three answers, Daniel, please.

OK, I think we're going to go for the United Kingdom,

France and Germany.

The United Kingdom, France and Germany

you believe are the three countries with the largest population.

If they are, you leave today with ?1,300.

If one of those is incorrect, I'm afraid you leave with nothing.

So best of luck. OK.

First up, you said the United Kingdom.

Is the United Kingdom one of the three countries

with the largest population from that six?

It is. APPLAUSE

There's 65 million people in the UK.

You then went with France.

Is France one of our three?

It is. APPLAUSE

You were confident about that.

It's 66 million.

So, two out of three.

Yeah. If Germany is the correct answer you leave with ?1,300.

This is the one that you weren't sure about.

You mentioned Spain, you mentioned Italy and then you went for Germany.

If it is Germany, you leave with ?1,300.

Is it Germany?

Yes! It is Germany!

APPLAUSE

Congratulations! Congratulations, well done. Yeah!

Germany was actually the largest population, with 81 million.

Right, OK! Yeah! Well done. There we go,

you leave with ?1,300. Excellent. Very nice!

Well done. Thank you very much.

APPLAUSE

That is it for Debatable.

There's just enough time for me to thank our fantastic panel -

June Sarpong, Rachel Johnson and Michael Buerk.

APPLAUSE

I do hope you've enjoyed watching.

We will see you next time for more heated debates.

For now, it's goodbye from me.

Dip into the BBC Proms.