Episode 11 The Graham Norton Show

Hi, I'm Nicole Kidman and this is The Graham Norton Show.

Oh! Oh!

Hello! Hello!

Welcome. Welcome, welcome, welcome.

Oh! So nice to see you all.

Very nice to see you and, frankly,

I'm just glad you all got here despite the train strike.

Well done, you. Very good.

Now to be fair to Southern,

they did manage to have some trains running during the strike.

We've got a picture of the 7.42 from Brighton. There it is.

Not a joke.

The service though has been so bad.

I mean, one passenger decided to end it all.

I'm not sure he chose the right method.

Yeah. Any day now. Still depressed.

Meanwhile, meanwhile, in other news, President-elect Donald Trump

has had a meeting with rap superstar Kanye West.

Oh! A meeting of minds.

If only walls could talk.

They'd say, "Piss off, tossers."

There are rumours, there are rumours that Trump met Kanye to

try and convince him to play at his inauguration.

Sadly, his only other booking cancelled on him.

Yeah. Sad times.

Listen, we've got a great sofa for you tonight.

Later we'll be joined by one of my chat show heroes,

the great Sir Michael Parkinson will be here. Yeah.

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

Talking about his interviews with Muhammad Ali

and we'll have music from singer-songwriter Jack Savoretti.

We love Jack Savoretti on the show. All right.

Let's get the first guests on.

She's a writer, actor and comedian

and without doubt Dibley's greatest ever vicar.

Now she's starring in the sexy new drama Delicious,

it's always a pleasure to welcome back Dawn French, everybody! Yey!

Oh, Dawn French.

-Hi! You're so Christmassy.

-Thank you.

-Christmassy.

Have a seat, do.

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

She was Oscar-nominated for her role as Stephen Hawking's wife

in The Theory Of Everything and now she's every nerd's fantasy.

She's in Star Wars and she's a woman, it's Felicity Jones!

Yey!

Hello! It's so nice to have you on the show. Really nice to see you.

-I've been looking forward to this.

-You sit in there, Felicity Jones.

He went from a breakout performance in Slumdog Millionaire to

The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel and is now Golden Globe-nominated

for his role in Lion, it's Dev Patel, everybody! Hey!

Welcome back to the show. Lovely to see you. Have a seat, do.

And also Golden Globe-nominated for Lion, she's the Oscar-winning

actress whose films include To Die For, Moulin Rouge and The Hours,

please welcome the best Aussie export you can't drink, Nicole Kidman!

-Hello. Lovely to see you. Have a seat, do.

-Thanks.

-Whoo!

Oh! Look at you all, shiny...

I've already mentioned the shoe, but those biker boots are fantastic.

-Check 'em out.

-Check them out, yeah.

They don't go with this dress, but I love them so much

-that I'm wearing them anyway.

-No, you're making it work.

-It's all working.

-They so do go with that dress. Kinda. Kinda. Yeah.

Do you realise that your legs are like as...

You've got as much leg as I've got actual body.

-Stand up for a minute.

-Come on!

-No, stand up. Look. Look. Look.

Stand up. Look. Look.

Look at that.

Sorry, guys. Sorry. I sort of want aliens to arrive right now,

so they can see us women come in many, many shapes.

Now, welcome back to everyone apart from Felicity,

-first time for Felicity on the show.

-It is indeed. Hi, everyone.

You made me panic then, because you looked at me like I was lying

and I was thinking, "Shit! Has she been on before and I've forgotten?"

No, you haven't been here before.

-No, no, never before, it's my first time.

-Lovely.

So you're not aware of the initiation ceremony?

Where your head goes down a toilet

and you always follow it with buying jewellery for the elder

female members. That's what we do, isn't it? On your show.

-Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's right. Yeah, yeah.

-OK.

Dev's gone all showbiz. You're in LA now.

-Yes.

-Yes, you are.

-Hardly showbiz, but, yeah.

It's beyond showbiz. It's meta-showbiz.

But are you back here for Christmas though?

I'm actually dragging the Patel family to my house in LA

-for the first time.

-OK.

So I'm bringing my dad and my mum and my sister and my best

-friend from India.

-It'll be nice.

-Are you cooking?

-No.

-That idea is just funny.

-I might bring some Nando's from London.

-Do you know Nando's?

-No.

-Oh, OK.

We'll talk about that later.

Yeah, Dev's got the gold card.

Now, lots of really great things to talk about tonight.

We will start with two, not one, TWO Golden Globe nominations and

both Screen Actor Guild nominations as well - it's all going well -

for Nicole and Dev's performances in Lion.

Now, this movie is out on 20th January.

Before we talk about it, here's a flavour of what it's about.

-Let's start with where you're from.

-Calcutta.

-Which part?

-I'm adopted.

I'm not really Indian. I'm starting to remember.

Saroo, our beautiful boy.

'A life I'd forgotten.'

-Saroo!

-Are you OK?

-I had another family.

-What happened?

I was lost.

HE SHOUTS

I have to find my way back home.

-How long were you on the train?

-A couple of days.

-A couple of days.

It will take a lifetime to search all the stations in India.

Do you have any idea what it's like?

How every day my real brother screams my name?

-Saroo!

-I always thought that I could keep this family together.

What if you do find home and they're not even there,

will you just keep searching?

I don't have a choice.

I can't look at it.

Dawn and I have seen it and we were welling up watching the trailer.

-It is a beautiful, beautiful film.

-It really is.

It's an extraordinary true story and...

I mean, because it's about an Indian boy who gets adopted by an

Australian family. In Australia, were you familiar with the story?

Was it in the news? Was it a well-known story?

It had been on 60 Minutes, but I wasn't familiar with it.

And then I sort of researched it and was astounded that it was true,

because what actually happens in the film, you can't believe that it's true.

-I played Dev's mum.

-And, Dev, you...

-Yes!

LAUGHTER

-My boy.

-Don't make it wrong, Dev.

I still love you, Mum.

Now, you play the adoptive mother, Sue...

-I do, yeah.

-..in the film.

And...

-He's so cute!

-He's so cute, that little boy. We'll talk about him

in a minute, but you have, in the film,

that amazing speech, which must break the heart of anyone who's ever

adopted a child, about why you chose to adopt the two boys you adopted.

Yeah, she had a vision when she was in her early teens and she

just decided that that was her life mission, was to adopt.

Well, initially it was one child, it turned into two children,

but she could have children, it's not that she couldn't give

birth to a child, she just, that wasn't going to be her path,

she wanted to adopt and as a woman,

to be in that maternal force is just a wonderful place to exist in.

I mean, I love being a mum. You're a mum, Dawn.

-Yeah, I'm a mum to an adopted kid.

-Yeah.

So that maternal force is a beautiful place to exist in.

And, Dev, a lot of preparation for this.

Was most of your preparation just trying to be as much like the

real Saroo as you could?

Erm...kind of, yeah, as soon as I got the role, they were, like,

"You look like a celery stick, so you need to put on some weight."

LAUGHTER Charming(!)

Yeah, so I had to grow out my hair and all this and then I had to

go to the gym, which is like a very foreign thing for me to do.

I'm very vocal in the gym as well, I've realised.

I'm not the best at pushing iron, but...

Are you THAT guy, the guy who makes all those noises?

"Argh!" Yeah, I'm like Woody Allen in the gym.

But, you know,

that was eight months of that and the dialect coaching and then I

got to travel around India on these trains and go to these orphanages.

It became a really kind of nourishing process for us all.

As great as both of you are, you are both fabulous in it,

-we must talk about this little boy, Sunny.

-Sunny!

-I mean, he's sort of half the film.

-He is so cute.

-Look at him.

-Look at him.

-Amazing.

-Just a light, that child.

So they found him from 2,000 children in an open casting call

and he'd never been on a plane before,

he'd never seen a Hollywood film and he carries this...

He'd never seen a film until two weeks ago when he saw this film.

-Which he's in!

-He's watched it, like, three times.

-This has really messed with his mind.

"Haven't you seen a film? Oh, you're not in this one?"

That's adorable!

And is he travelling the world with you?

-Is he going to do red carpets and things?

-Yeah, he loves it actually.

He didn't speak any English when he arrived

and he speaks it quite well now.

Now his translator just stands to the side and he's answering his own questions.

He met Bill Clinton in New York, he came to our premiere and Sunny's

just standing there and we're all, like, shaking and he's just,

like, you know, looking at this guy and I'm, like,

how do I explain to this kid? I don't speak Hindi, how do I

explain to him the magnitude of who he's standing next to?

So there's this big Bollywood superstar called Amitabh Bachchan and he's, like, massive.

I'm, like, "Sunny, that's, that's Americans' Amitabh Bachchan,"

and he's, like... He kind of, like, straightened up a bit.

They took to Gap in New York

and he picked out this bright red puffer jacket, and so he's walking

around in his Q&As with these sunglasses and this puffer jacket.

-Yeah.

-And all these people were involved,

all the real people are involved. Is that too much though?

Does it inhibit you when you're then recreating these scenes,

knowing that these real people will see these things?

I mean, I personally didn't want Sue,

who's become a very good friend of mine and I love her,

I didn't want her sitting there when I was doing every scene,

because I felt a bit shy actually and intimidated.

Of course, Felicity, Oscar-nominated for playing Stephen Hawking's

wife, so you've been in this situation. You've been with

this woman you're portraying.

So do you have a similar experience or was it...?

Well, it's quite interesting,

it's important that you get almost the person's permission, that

you feel like they... You kind of go through a little bit,

I felt playing Jane, a little bit of a trial period where we went,

Eddie and I went and spent some time with her and had dinner with

her and it did feel like it was much harder than any audition we'd

ever done in our entire lives,

because you sort of feel, you know,

you need the nod of approval from the person at the end,

because they are, they're giving their lives up,

they're giving their lives up for everyone to see,

so you sort of want somehow for there to be an exchange, that you're going

to look after their story in some way, which I imagine was similar.

-Trust, yeah.

-Exactly.

Eddie has talked about meeting Stephen Hawking and sort of

-hanging out and you hung out as well, didn't you?

-We did, we did.

Stephen came to set and we were very,

very nervous and we're sort of trying to, going over the lines

and wanted to do our best version of the take and doing these

performances and then, afterwards, and they shouted, "Cut!"

And we thought, you know, we were just anxiously waiting for what Stephen would think and

he said, he wrote down and we were kind of anxiously waiting, and

he said, "Would Felicity, please, be able to come and give me a kiss?"

Hello! LAUGHTER

And what's wonderful about Stephen is he doesn't take himself

-seriously at all.

-I'd say he was quite serious.

I don't think there was a joke in that note.

That was a, "Get her over here and make her kiss me."

I was hoping he meant in a kind of sort of, you know, avuncular, maybe fatherly way.

Let's hope that, yeah.

Very quickly, we don't want to make anyone cry,

but sad days in the publishing world in Australia.

I don't know if you're aware of this, but I'm afraid Dolly magazine

has shut its doors, Nicole. Dolly magazine is no more.

Dolly magazine was very important to you when you were starting out,

-wasn't it? Yeah.

-Yeah. I got on the cover of Dolly magazine.

-Here we go.

There you are on the cover. Yeah! Looking stunning.

They've got a giant...

-Are you being facetious?

-No! You look fabulous!

They dyed my hair red, I was only, like, 14.

It wasn't red like that.

Everyone always thinks it was that red like that and it wasn't.

No, they dyed it red.

-Inside there are some fabulous high-fashion shots of you.

-Oh, God!

No, this is beautiful.

This just gives you an idea of the quality of fashion in Dolly

magazine. That is a lovely...

It's a lovely shiny jacket and I have to say, these rope seams,

I'm not sure they ever caught on, the rope seam.

I've never seen them before in my life.

-But this next picture, you can tell.

-Oh, God! You're brutal!

There's only one more. So...

I wish, I honestly wish my hair was like that now. It's so dreadful.

Because, I have to say, anyone that has curly hair that's young,

keep your curly hair, don't straighten it,

-because after a while, you don't get your curls back.

-Really?

No, they just, they kind of become just frizz mass.

I mean, that is frizz mass but I kind of like that.

Yeah, it's gone, so I'm like an old woman now,

where I say, "Don't dye your hair!

"And don't straighten your curls!"

I like that idea, you know photographers in movies,

when they're doing fashion, they're always like, "Look sexy,"

or, "Give me..." something, give me this, or, try this.

-Dah-dah-dah.

-Yeah.

-What had the photographer said...

-Oh, you're so mean!

..before this picture?

Why aren't you doing this to anybody...

LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE

APPLAUSE DROWNS SPEECH

You look great.

"Is this the sort of thing you're after?"

I think the photographer just said, "Can I see your pants?"

-I thought you were going to say something rude then.

-No, no.

We'll take it away, we'll take it away, there you go.

Dolly magazine, RIP.

Now, Felicity Jones.

This, I mean, must be the most eagerly awaited movie of the year.

Rogue One: A Star Wars Story.

It's out now, it's a stand-alone film in the Star Wars saga.

-It's before the first Carrie Fisher, Harrison Ford one.

-Exactly. Yeah.

-This is this movie.

-And we lead into that story.

OK, so, who are you in Rogue One?

So I play Jyn Erso, who is a rebel fighter,

who is a real, kind of, real outsider.

She's very much on the fringes of society,

she's a bit of a delinquent, she goes around causing trouble.

And throughout the film we see this woman slowly actually learning

how to, how to not be such a delinquent and become a leader,

and to embrace the other rebels, and they unite.

They're a very disparate band, but it's their differences in the end

that make them stronger

and they're able to steal the plans to the Death Star.

And where there are nerd fans, there are nerd tattoos.

And I believe you've had your first nerd tattoo?

Yes, yes, I came across, um...

a, uh, a...a male.

Just say it, Felicity, just say it.

Who has had the character of Jyn tattooed onto his...

-It's you, he's had you tattooed.

-Well, I've...

Yes, I guess, me as Jyn, tattooed onto his calf.

Oh, I was really worried for a second!

I was. I was.

I guess he's got a big calf.

Yeah! Cos I...

I know we've got a picture of it,

I'm thinking, I don't think we can show that.

-Here's, here you are.

-That was very...

-Here you are on a calf.

-DAWN:

-Oh, my goodness!

-DEV:

-Wow, man.

Oh, I see, there's his ankles. OK.

That's amazing.

It's actually kind of an oddly good likeness for a tattoo.

Yeah, I'm just worried about what happens when the hair grows back.

-I'm going to be a bearded lady.

-It's Planet Of The Apes now.

We've got a clip.

This is your character towards the beginning of the story,

being rescued.

-What now?

-I don't know.

Must be another pick-up.

I thought we had everybody?

METALLIC CLANG

-All clear, sir.

-SHOUTING

Her.

You want to get out of here?

Hey, what about me?

Congratulations. You are being rescued. Please do not resist.

Wow! APPLAUSE

It's got everything we want, everything you want.

It is proper kick ass, you are not the girl in the film at all.

No, we'd all come home after work

and we'd just be completely covered in bruises and scratches and scars.

But do you get... I know, because I've seen it.

-You don't get the lightsaber.

-No.

-Which must have been disappointing.

It was, actually.

It was a bit, you know, at first, I thought, you're in Star Wars,

you kind of expect to have a lightsaber but no,

she actually has a small stick that she fights with.

It's more exciting than it sounds.

You need to rephrase that, that sounds really piss poor.

Yeah, it's... it's kind of like a baton,

a sort of truncheon and she has it on her belt,

and she has a special move

where she kind of unleashes it and then she's able to, just,

you know, take down a few stormtroopers with it.

But it is just a stick.

Are you a lethal weapon in yourself, walking down the street?

-Could you take people out?

-I mean, any moment. Any moment now.

Has it made you feel different, knowing that you could just go...

I think, yeah, I think it does. I think it does.

You do martial arts?

No, don't drag me into this. Please.

-I'm surprised.

-You do, don't you?

-Oh, man, are you going to pull up a terrible picture?

-No.

I have to say, they showed me the terrible pictures, I thought,

we can't show that. Honestly, you thought that was bad,

you should see his martial arts pictures.

-But, now...

-Oh...

-What? What?

-No!

-What?

Were you going to challenge him to a fight? I wasn't.

-I want Dev to do it back there.

-No, I don't, no, no, no.

-He does flips and everything.

-Do you do flips?!

-Yeah.

-You've been very quiet about this.

-I don't do flips!

Unbelievable, you should see him. Come on, Dev.

-Come on.

-No, no, no, no.

CHEERING

INAUDIBLE SPEECH

There's no entertainment happening, I'm sorry.

The rest of the press tour

is now going to be people trying to make you do backflips.

So, being in big movies is one thing, but being in something like this,

where you've got to, do you have to,

do you have to sign all legal things? And secrecy and...

Yeah, it is quite, it is quite a burden for two years, definitely,

the whole cast, we all watched the film a few, a couple of weeks ago.

And it was finally, sort of, a feeling of collective relief

that at some point we would be able to actually talk about it.

Rather than, sort of...

Your friends ask you about what's happening in the film

and you sort of, sort of, you really want to tell them

but you have to really keep your mouth shut because you don't,

you know, you don't want to break all these nondisclosure agreements.

I always wonder, because people talk about this, what happens if you do?

You are killed.

By a small stick.

Talking of Star Wars, Dawn and Jennifer, they strike again.

CHEERING

-Uh-oh.

-I'm not sure if Lucasfilm...

Do Lucasfilm, did you have to get permission to do these?

Don't know.

I'm about to be killed.

-We've got a picture of Dawn, are you Toby-Jugs Kenobi?

-Yes.

This is you as Toby-Jugs Kenobi.

-With Jennifer.

-That's amazing.

That is amazing.

You also, I love this one,

-you did Princess Panty-Padme?

-Yes.

Panty-Padme. That's right.

It was good fun, I have to say.

I had, you know,

I had three handmaidens when I played Panty-Padme,

and that's the eldest handmaiden, and that is Jennifer's daughter.

Who is my goddaughter, that's Ella,

-who's got three children now, for heaven's sake.

-You're kidding!

-She's a little bairn there.

-Wow.

And perhaps our favourite, this is Dawn as Grand Master Skoda.

I've got flippers! Flippers!

I just noticed them!

-Oh, funny.

-Awesome.

-Happy days.

Now, people who like Dawn French, ooh, treats, treats, treats.

-You're on telly twice in the holiday season.

-I am.

Your last stage show, Thirty Million Minutes,

-that's televised on BBC Four at 9pm on New Year's Eve.

-That's right.

And is that a straightforward filming of the stage show?

It is, it's absolutely unadulterated, the whole length of it.

Because I tried to work out how we could cut bits out

but there's a kind of narrative thread...woven into it,

so I wanted it to be exactly as I performed it live.

-But how lovely, though, to have a permanent record of that.

-Yeah.

Now, your new drama series Delicious starts on Sky1 at 9pm

-on the night before that, on 30th December.

-Yes.

This is, I mean, it's a new, it's a new sort of Dawn,

-it's a new sort of performance for you.

-It is, yeah.

Well, it's a drama, and, um, Emilia Fox and I play two characters

who...we sort of share the same man, that sounds odd.

But I play his ex-wife and Emilia plays his present wife.

And the man is played by Iain Glen.

And he's a chef, a celebrity chef,

and although she's the new wife, she's very suspicious of him,

because, of course, he cheated on me with her.

And she imagines that he's having an affair

and she gathers lots of evidence

and it turns out that he is indeed having an affair.

With me.

-Ooh!

-I'm not giving you too many spoilers there

-because there are many other things happening.

-No, that happens so quick.

There's lots of intrigue and plot twists and everything.

-Yeah.

-And it's really interesting to see you do things

-that we've seen you do before for laughs...

-Yes.

-But now, you know, because there's lovemaking.

-There is.

But very sensual lovemaking.

It is, yeah. That's weird, isn't it? When you do that on film.

You guys would know about that, you know, I'm quite new to that.

Did quite enjoy it, I have to say.

-It is Iain Glen, for heaven's sakes.

-Yes, you see a lot of Iain Glen.

You see a lot of him, you do get to see his bottom which is very nice.

Female director, so I'm not the one that's showing much of the flesh,

he is the one showing a lot of the flesh,

and because the food is very important in this show,

the food is at the centre of everything and my character is

a feeder, literally, a feeder,

she controls people with food and she's very sensual around the food.

And they've shared the food and their love of it for years.

So the food is part of the lovemaking.

So, you know, I'm happy, because obviously I will do sex for food.

We have a clip, this is you and your ex-husband Iain Glen

-rekindling your romance.

-Oh, OK.

Leo.

Hi.

No, thanks.

Sam!

Oooh!

APPLAUSE

Now, I love the way papers kind of respond to things.

They got very overexcited about your new look.

I know, what is going on about that?

-New look?

-Really the difference is a little bit of kink in the hair

and no fringe.

So, really, in order to get the papers excited about your new look,

this is what you have to do.

That. That's it.

That's new, amazing me.

Brave, give me an award for acting.

And then, that's me, just back to me.

She's a chameleon, ladies and gentlemen, a chameleon!

Incredible. Right. Let's meet our next guest.

He is quite simply a chat show legend

and now he's written a book about

one of his most famous guests, Muhammad Ali.

Please welcome Sir Michael Parkinson, everybody.

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

-Hello, sir. You're very welcome.

-Hi.

-Please sit down next to Nicole.

Have a seat, no, you're in that one. No, no, you're there.

-How quickly you forget.

-I know! I had to wrestle him off my chair.

-How are you, are you well?

-Good, thank you, excellent.

So, of course, you have interviewed Nicole before.

-I have, a couple of times.

-Yeah.

We met in a lift in Sydney, I think, was the first time, many years ago.

My second home, Sydney. I saw the movie, by the way.

And I think it's very good indeed, I really enjoyed it.

-We have not met. Nice to meet you.

-Hi, I'm Felicity.

And as for you. Did you see her kissing that man in that scene?

Dawn, yes.

Guests used to refuse to come on my show, male guests,

attractive ones, because she grabbed hold of them and kissed them.

George Clooney was like this.

-I think you'll find, Michael...

-I'm sorry?

-..that George kissed me.

Well, you were on top.

Just being willing.

It was definitely, didn't mind George Clooney but Ken Dodd? No.

-Did you really kiss Ken Dodd?

-No!

-No, of course she didn't.

-Wasn't there a Tom Jones incident?

-There was.

-Do you remember Tom Jones?

-I do.

You were on with Jennifer, and his agent came to us and said,

under threat of death, you must not throw knickers at him at all.

I was in charge of not throwing knickers.

And I made the mistake of telling you, and, of course,

he was covered in large bloomers.

I think we had about 12 pairs on.

Just peeled them off and throwing them.

His manager was not pleased, I'll tell you.

But you, you now bring us a really fascinating book.

It's an insight into Muhammad Ali.

-Muhammad Ali - A Memoir.

-Yeah.

-It is based on the four interviews

-you did with him...

-Yes.

-..which I thought stretched

over a longer period. But it's ten years, '71-'81.

That's right. That was the time, of course, where he went from being

a contender to being world champion, to the misbegotten man that we saw

at the very end of it and showing the first signs of the injury that

basically, killed him, in the end.

And when you first met him, he was already Muhammad Ali,

-he wasn't Cassius Clay.

-Oh, yes.

-He'd be the world champion....

-He'd made his mark, that's right.

So, there must been a big build-up to that interview.

Well, I mean, there was, in the sense that,

when he arrived in the studio, it was like watching a Martian arrive

out of a spaceship. I had never seen a human being who looked like him.

He was absolutely beautiful, he really was.

A glorious-looking man. And, yet, when he walked towards you,

he didn't look that big, but then he sat down

his backside was so big, he couldn't get in the chair.

So, we had to find a chair at the BBC that was big enough for him.

But he was so perfectly built that he didn't look large, at all.

The other thing was his hands. When he shook hands with me,

his fingers were about that long. They didn't belong to a man who was

going to batter you to death in the ring. The belonged to a man

who played violin or something like that. It was extraordinary.

He was an extraordinary-looking man

and, then, of course, he was the Barnum & Bailey of the fight game.

He was an extraordinary publicist.

Funny and articulate and all those things.

And I got him through the course of the interviews I did with him,

if you could call them interviews, I got him in all his various moods,

from madness to joy, to all those things, as well.

And then, sadly, the last interview I did, in '81, as I said,

it was like watching an iceberg melt, basically.

It's very moving when you write about that in the book.

Even at that point, the spark had gone.

It had gone. Yeah, totally. And you are aware that the man

who had graced this sport, who had actually reinvented this sport,

who had sold it like nobody else ever had, and boxed like nobody else

ever had, that what had caused that condition was through the game

he graced and the game he served so well.

-Strange.

-There is an interesting...

I think we all have a collective memory of the interviews you did

and you always remember him as being so funny and charming

and playful and, yet, that third interview which,

you know, you read the transcript and you watch the clip, I'm ...

Do you mind if we watch a little clip of that

-and then talk about it?

-No, I don't mind.

-As an interviewer,

I find it really fascinating.

Watching you in this is really fascinating.

-You're missing...

-No, I ain't missing nothing.

-You did...

-I read you and I don't... I came on you and you ain't used

to no black man or boxer having no sense. I'm not just a boxer!

I'm taught by Elijah Muhammad, I'm educated. Even Oxford University,

your biggest seat of learning, offered me a professorship

in philosophy and poetry. I'm not just an ordinary fighter!

I can talk all week on millions of subjects and YOU do not have

enough wisdom to corner me on television. You do not have enough!

You're too small, mentally, to tackle me

on nothing that I represent.

I'm serious.

You and this little TV show is NOTHING to Muhammad Ali

and if you have got some more questions, ask them, and I bet you

I'll eat you up right here on air. Ain't no way you can tackle me.

Wow.

APPLAUSE

I watch you and I'm in awe,

because you didn't lose your composure, you are sitting forward.

I mean, I would have shat myself.

LAUGHTER

I confess! No, I don't know what to do.

I didn't know what to, or did do.

If he... He had done that before to me and he was kidding.

But there, he wasn't. He had lost it. His eyes were angry and burning

and he was leaning in towards me and being very, very aggressive.

I thought, if it was a jockey who was doing that - a tiny fellow -

then you're OK, but 16.5 stone of heavyweight champion,

you know, he might mean it. What was funny was, after the show...

The show lasts about an hour and a half, that was only part of it,

it was an extraordinary demonstration. All that had happened

was that I had said to him that a very well-known American writer

called Budd Schulberg had said of Ali, in spite of all he says about

white people, of all the fighters Schulberg knew,

Ali was the one with the most white friends.

And that is what started that, except he thought,

when I went like that,

he thought I was going to say "Read it for yourself."

And he knew and I knew he couldn't read properly.

-Oh.

-That he was semi-illiterate.

-Yes.

-So he did exactly what anybody

would do - certainly a fighter, in that situation -

-he came back at me and flattened me.

-He sounds a bit like a man

who has been told that he's not very bright, as you...

I think that's right. He had that kind of shame in him.

He didn't want people to understand, so if I had said,

"Read it for yourself", he couldn't.

And then we ended up... I sat there and thought,

"It's been an absolute nightmare, this show.

"I don't want to be on telly ever again" and all that.

I went up to my room and I sat there thinking, "You idiot, you could

"have been better than that. It was awful!"

Knock on the door. Opened the door and there's my father,

five foot seven, a miner from Grimethorpe,

and he said to me, "Now, then!" I said, "Now, then."

He said, "Can I ask you a question?" I said, "You can."

He said, "Out there..." "Yes?" "..what were wrong with thee?"

I said, "I did what I... What could I have done?"

"Well, you thump him."

LAUGHTER

I got the feeling my father might have, actually.

It would have been your last interview, but very good!

When you look... You have chosen four of your really

memorable interviews, with somebody as extraordinary as Muhammad Ali.

One of the best interviewees... It was impossible to interrupt.

He was the most remarkable human being. We're lucky, aren't we?

What wonderful company we have. And you could call them up

and people say, "Oh, I wish I could meet Dawn", yada-yada.

But we had that ability to get who we want.

It makes us feel very privileged.

But now and again, there comes a person - I don't know

if it has happened to you yet - but it did with Ali with me,

who is so different, he transcends normal fame,

there's something else about them. They are so iconic that they

are irreplaceable. And there is only one or two of them you will ever

meet, if you are that lucky. And that is what I found myself -

in that situation. What's more, I did like him. I grew to like him

an awful lot.

I thought, when he died, I thought, this was my chance to actually

pay tribute to a remarkable man who did not play a significant part

in my career, but who I enjoyed, more than most people, talking to

and being with.

And thinking how lucky I was that I was able to do that.

Does it annoy you that, when people remember...

You did ALL the great interviews and interviewed all the brilliant people

-and they remember the screw-ups.

-Yeah.

-They remember the things...

Meg Ryan, Emu - those things.

Is that frustrating or do you think, "Yeah!"

No, it defines fames, doesn't it? Young people I talk to, I say,

you should be careful what you wish for, because, in the end,

people will only remember you for all the foul-ups. The things you

most want to forget, they most want to remember! It's a good definition

of the joys of fame. There aren't that many, really.

It's the price of the job that you pay. I loved every minute of it.

I have been a very, very lucky man, indeed.

And I had the best of it, in a sense, cos I had all these

lovely old stars, who I adored when I was a kid. That generation

of Cagney and all those people. Astaire and all those people.

-And then, this new lot that came through.

-This rabble.

LAUGHTER

The dregs. Look what I'm coping with!

I had to leave!

I get it!

Muhammad Ali - A Memoir

is out in shops now. It's been a real pleasure to have you on.

Thank you so much, Sir Michael Parkinson!

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

Right! It's time for our musical performance.

This man has had a great year. His song, Catapult, did just that,

taking him from strength to strength. Here performing Only You,

please welcome, Jack Savoretti!

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

# Travelled far to get ourselves here

# Left our indifference behind

# With your courage I escaped my fears

# And you learned to say what's on your mind

# And now we build our loving memories

# Living heart to heart

# Glowing like an open fire

# We came out from the dark

# Only you is all I need

# Only you know where to go to get to me

# Only you can set me free

# And stop me living behind the lines of enemies

# I'm waiting for someone to rescue me

# Hey!

# My, my!

# Whoa, yeah!

# My, my! Oh!

# We travelled rough to get ourselves here

# Now laughter dries the tears we cried

# And through the good times and the bad, my dear

# We suffered for each other's crime

# Yes, so I'll take love you gave me

# Closer to my heart

# If you take the songs I sing to you

# Alone in the dark

# Hey, hey!

# Only you is all I need

# Whoa-oh, yeah!

# Only you know where to go to get to me

# Only you can set me free

# Stop me living

# Stop me living behind the lines

# Of enemies

# Oh

# When I'm with you baby

# It's a beautiful life

# Hey

# Together this world feels like home

# Oh

# Walk beside me now until the end of time

# Without you, oh

# I feel so alone

# Yeah

# Only you is all I need

# Hey

# Only you know where to go to get to me

# Yeah

# Only you can set me free

# Stop me living

# Stop me living

# Stop me living behind the lines

# Of enemies. #

APPLAUSE

Thank you very much.

Jack Savoretti!

Great job, come on over now.

Well done, that was really, really good.

Come here and sit down. You sit down beside Dawn.

Jack, everybody.

Lovely. There you go.

Do a bit of greeting.

They like you. They like you.

Thanks for that, fully live, that was great.

Fully live, yeah, that was terrifying.

I've got a little bit of the shakes going on.

LAUGHTER

That's from the album Sleep No More, which is out now.

-And we're playing it a lot on Radio 2, as you know.

-Thank you.

And last time you were on, you caused a bit of a sensation.

People really reacted to you being on the show.

It was pretty cool. Cos we had actually put the album...

the previous album to bed.

And then you called, and obviously, we came running.

And we played and for the first time, we got a top ten record,

thanks to you. So thank you very much.

Congratulations!

APPLAUSE

So, you toured that last...

Actually, cos I follow you on something, I can't remember what.

I think maybe Twitter? I don't know.

Twitter, Instagram, I think we follow each other...

Yeah, but you gig all the time.

-You're constantly touring.

-Yeah, we gig a lot.

And that was the craziest part about doing a show.

We've never...

We've had good success with albums and live,

but we've never had that song.

And after doing the show, we now know what it feels like

to play to a crowd that knows that song, because...

In the first chords of the song we played last time...

This is going to get very confusing for anybody watching.

LAUGHTER

It's like an alternative dimension.

But we did play the other song, Catapult.

And in the first two chords, now, when we play shows, the room...

The energy just changes.

And we're like, "Oh, so that's what having a hit sounds like."

LAUGHTER

So it's great.

I always think that when you watch someone, like a band,

play their hits, you always think,

"Oh, it must be lovely to have a hit that you can just start,"

and, like you say...

I wondered the same thing.

LAUGHTER

-And now, that was the closest I got, so...

-Now you've got it!

You've got it. But you are, you're going to be touring again, right?

Yeah, we're touring the UK in March.

We're off to America in January, Germany in February, and we'll be

coming back to the UK in March, so hopefully see you guys there.

I'm sure we will.

Jack Savoretti, everybody. Fantastic. Thinking very much.

APPLAUSE, CHEERING

Really good job. Excellent.

Nearly out of time, but just before we go, time for...

I'm so sorry, we're doing...

It seems grubby and stupid, but we're doing it in front of you.

LAUGHTER

Yes, we're doing a "bit", Michael, we're doing a bit.

I know the bit.

Yeah, it's the big red chair. It is.

LAUGHTER

Who's there? Who's there?

Hi, I'm Kim.

Kim? Kim. This is Kim. She's a self-starter. Yes, Kim.

LAUGHTER

Where are you from, Kim?

I'm from New Zealand.

It's a small island off Australia.

LAUGHTER

We're familiar with it, Kim. And do you live here or there?

I live here.

You live here. What do you do?

I'm a student, so not much.

LAUGHTER

-I'm finished studying, so...

-You've finished studying?

Yeah, I just spend money.

OK, so you're... You're nothing, really.

LAUGHTER

Right now, you're in the red chair.

The anecdote Olympics awaits.

So off you go with your story, Kim.

OK, so I'd just arrived in Spain from New Zealand,

and I went straight to my sister,

who'd been living in Spain for a while,

and she's fluent in Spanish. So, you know, anyway, she goes...

LAUGHTER

-Spinach!

-Spinach?

Spanish.

No, no, go with spinach, I like it.

LAUGHTER

They're all speaking spinach!

LAUGHTER

Anyway, she told me a few phrases, like "hola", which is hello,

and "guapo", which is like, a good-looking man.

So very useful.

And we went to a bar on, like, the third night, and she...

I just go, there was loads of guapos,

and I was like, "Yes!" Like, perfect.

One of them was the bartender.

And so she goes, perfect opportunity to practise your Spanish skills.

So she taught me how to say, "I want three beers".

Like, the drink. Anyway...

LAUGHTER

I went up to the hot guy, and I was like,

"Hola!

"Quiero tres pollas, por favor."

He started laughing, my sister was laughing even harder.

And then he goes,

"Sorry, I've got one of those to offer," in English.

And I was like, very confused,

until I find out that my sister told me how to say,

"I want three penises, please."

LAUGHTER

Not, "I want three beers."

That wasn't...

Ah!

APPLAUSE

Even Michael said...

It was not chat show worthy. No.

LAUGHTER

I did like that she was ordering bears and speaking spinach.

LAUGHTER

OK, now, somebody else. Hello.

-Hello.

-Hi, what's your name?

-It's Kirsty.

Kirsty. Are you from New Zealand as well?

No, I'm from Basingstoke.

LAUGHTER

I have a great ear... A really great ear.

LAUGHTER

OK, off you go with your story.

My husband had just started a new job,

and it was his Christmas do, and he said to us,

"Oh, it's going to be Best Of British,

"so we'll go as best of British children's TV programmes."

So he was Bungle, and I was Zippy.

LAUGHTER

And then when we got there,

it was the most poshest do I've ever been to.

-It was a red carpet...

-LAUGHTER

And everyone was suited, booted, cocktail dresses.

-And...

-LAUGHTER

And I stayed the whole night.

One of his bosses' wives said to me,

"I'd divorce my husband for less."

LAUGHTER

And then somebody else said,

"I thought you were the evening entertainment."

LAUGHTER

And they kept asking me if I could put my Zippy head on,

so they could take photos of me.

LAUGHTER

Aww. We like you, and you can walk!

Well done, that woman.

APPLAUSE

Well done, everyone.

If you want to join us on the show and have a go in the red chair,

you can contact us via our website at this very address.

That is it for tonight,

so please say a huge thank you to my guests.

Jack Savoretti, everyone!

APPLAUSE

Sir Michael Parkinson!

APPLAUSE

Dawn French!

APPLAUSE

Felicity Jones!

APPLAUSE

Dev Patel!

APPLAUSE

And Nicole Kidman!

APPLAUSE

Join me next week with musical guest Katie Melua,

Sherlock star Martin Freeman,

Golden Globe-nominated Naomie Harris,

Oscar winner Dame Helen Mirren,

and the one and only Will Smith!

I'll see you then. Good night, everyone!

CHEERING