Pennod 3 Adam Price a Streic y Glowyr


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-Subtitles

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-Subtitles

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-Subtitles

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-I'm Adam Price.

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-I'm on a journey to learn about the

-story of the 1984-85 Miners' Strike.

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-I saw grown men in tears

-at having to go back.

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-There were people who wanted that

-strike to go on forever.

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-It was like watching a drama.

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-But there was only one

-possible end to that drama.

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-I don't think anyone thought it

-would last a year.

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-We see the strike

-as something nostalgic...

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-..that's romantic

-or like a false golden era.

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-To be honest, I was scared.

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-I've decided to give it one last go.

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-I've come here to knock on his door.

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-Meeting someone you saw as a hero,

-who'll possibly turn you away...

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-..could be painful.

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-I wanted to absolutely guarantee

-that he carried all of the blame...

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-..that wasn't carried by

-Margaret Thatcher.

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-Without my experiences of the

-strike, who would I be?

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-Right, we're recording.

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-When you're back,

-you're not back with pride.

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-You'll say to your son or your

-daughter, that in 1984...

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-..I took part in the greatest

-struggle in Trade Union history.

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-We've come to Aberavon and it brings

-back memories of the big rally.

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-It was the largest rally

-that took place in South Wales.

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-It was held in the Afan Lido,

-a stone's throw from here.

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-I had travelled

-on the bus with my father.

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-Many buses had travelled

-from all mining towns.

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-As we arrived,

-I couldn't believe my eyes.

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-There were no spaces

-for all the buses to park.

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-There was no room for us

-and my father had to smuggle me in.

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-I was so determined to be a part

-of this historical evening.

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-A host of union representatives

-and parties attended the rally.

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-We waited eagerly to hear from

-one man and he was Norman Willis.

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-He was the leader

-of the TUC in Britain.

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-We waited to hear from him

-for one reason, namely support.

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-The location was close

-to the old steelworks.

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-We expected him to announce that we

-would be supported by the unions.

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-But unfortunately,

-all we received was judgement.

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-The judgement surrounded the picket

-line violence and threats to miners.

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-We couldn't believe it.

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-Violence creates more violence.

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-HECKLES

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-Out of that extra violence,

-is built not solidarity...

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-..but despair and defeatism.

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-Boo!

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-In the midst of this, two miners

-had climbed into the parapet...

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-..and started to release

-a rope above is head.

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-This noose stood next to his ears.

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-It was miners' humour,

-but they didn't want to hurt him.

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-But it was a symbol

-of how we all felt that evening.

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-This was the leader of the Labour

-unions and Labour organization...

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-..who came to the strike

-here in South Wales...

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-..and not to extend his hand

-to help, but to judge us.

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-We all felt betrayed.

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-Off! Off! Off! Off! Off!

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-Off! Off! Off! Off! Off!

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-Following Norman Willis...

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-..the NUM president, Arthur

-Scargill, addressed the crowd.

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-Some thought that there was

-no support for Scargill...

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-..in the mining industry.

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-It certainly wasn't true

-at this rally.

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-CHEERING

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-This was one of the most

-fascinating speakers...

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-..I had ever heard.

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-On that evening...

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-..Scargill had expressed

-the feelings of the crowd.

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-His voice raised in tempo and

-his finger pointed to the heavens.

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-I am not prepared to condemn

-the actions of my members...

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-..who's only crime

-is fighting for the right to work...

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-..fighting to save the pits,

-jobs and mining communities.

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-It was as if the Reformation

-had returned to Wales.

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-Scargill resembled a

-congregational minister that night.

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-I fought to save the job.

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-I fought to save this community.

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-But in doing so...

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-..I preserved my dignity

-as a human being...

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-..and as a member of the finest

-Trade Union in the world.

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-I'm privileged to lead you,

-I salute you...

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-..the miners united

-will never be defeated.

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-"The miners united

-will never be defeated."

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-That evening, we believed him.

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-# Arthur Scargill,

-we'll support you ever more

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-# We'll support you ever more #

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-He's a central figure.

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-Would there have been a strike

-were it not for Arthur Scargill...

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-..without his charisma...

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-..and his incredible talent

-as a leader at that time?

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-The strike started in Yorkshire...

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-..and he was central to the roots

-of the strike here.

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-He was the leader of the

-NUM during the strike...

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-..and for some time later.

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-In my opinion, he was one

-of the central figures...

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-..to the history

-of the 20th Century.

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-He's one of those rare characters.

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-He didn't long for the

-permission of others...

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-..when it came to his beliefs.

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-Don't they yet understand!

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-They can't imprison my mind,

-they can't sequestrate my ideas.

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-They can't defeat

-my allegiance or my class.

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-He's more than an individual.

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-He represents an organization,

-a period...

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-..and he represents a battle

-which was lost.

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-There are many questions

-that surround Arthur Scargill.

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-He's a very familiar figure,

-but yet again he's still a mystery.

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-It's impossible

-to understand the strike...

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-..and tell its history

-without him...

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-..or without understanding him

-as a person.

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-We've tried to contact him on many

-occasions on the phone and in email.

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-He hasn't refused...

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-..but he hasn't contacted us...

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-..to tell us when he's available.

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-He doesn't generally speak

-to the media.

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-I have mixed emotions, but I've

-decided to give it one last shot.

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-I've come to knock on his door...

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-..and ask if he'll tell me

-how he saw things at the time...

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-..and how he sees things now.

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-I have to admit that

-I'm feeling nervous.

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-Meeting someone

-who was once your hero...

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-..but who may turn you away...

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-..could be painful.

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-He came to the door

-and it was like seeing a ghost.

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-The experience of seeing someone

-who is a historical figure...

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-..and meeting them in person

-as they open the door to you...

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-..is an experience

-that I will never forget.

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-He apologised

-and said he didn't have time.

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-As he said in his emails, he would

-be happy to do it another time...

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-..but this morning isn't suitable.

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-I'm disappointed that he didn't have

-the time to sit down with me.

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-But he's certainly

-a complex character.

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-Unfortunately, we won't be able

-to understand his complexities...

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-..as he's shut himself away.

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-It's a shame to see someone

-who was so eloquent...

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-..who has now become a recluse.

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-There are secrets...

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-..which surround the strategies

-and tactics he had in his mind...

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-..and when the time comes,

-these will go with him to his grave.

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-He's obviously a man under siege

-in some type of castle.

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-When we think of how he used to be

-and how many people admired him...

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-..and compare it with today...

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-..he seems like

-a very lonely figure.

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-It's strange to meet the man

-who was such a large character...

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-..on the large,

-historical world stage.

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-At the time, he was legendary

-on the historical stage...

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-..but now, his world is smaller.

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-There's an element of sadness to it.

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-In the end, I thanked him

-for what he did during the strike...

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-..and for his contribution.

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-I really do feel thankful.

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-It doesn't matter if you disagree

-with the tactics and decisions...

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-..I feel that his heart

-was in the right place.

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-The speeches along with his

-contribution will always be there.

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-Let the words of Arthur Scargill

-from the strike be heard...

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-..and don't add any epilogues, which

-won't be as good as the original.

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-# We'll support you ever more #

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-.

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-Subtitles

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-Subtitles

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-My name is Adam Price.

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-I've been on a journey

-to the strike of 1984-85.

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-This strike changed my life.

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-When the strike came,

-the Labour party leader...

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-..was Neil Kinnock,

-the son of a South Wales miner.

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-At the time, many of us within

-the South Wales mining industry...

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-..expected someone

-with his background...

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-..to take the opportunity

-to support the strike.

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-We wanted him on the picket line

-and to be prominent in rallies.

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-I came from

-a Labour-supporting family.

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-I couldn't understand why Kinnock

-and the party didn't do this.

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-Mr Kinnock's visit has appeased

-the leaders of Gwent miners' minds.

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-But, the miners believe that

-Mr Kinnock could do more to help.

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-I don't think they've

-handled it very good.

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-We haven't see him at all and he's

-given us no support whatsoever.

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-He should be here with

-the rest of the boys...

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-..on the picket line

-and see what's happening.

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-He is going to come down, he says.

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-He is going to come down, he says.

-

-Aye, at his own bloody time.

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-For us on the front line...

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-..it felt like we were

-being betrayed.

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-It left a bad taste in our mouths.

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-I'm happy to have the opportunity

-to speak to Neil, the man...

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-..and ask how he felt

-about the strike.

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-We have a lot in common.

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-We're both sons to miners.

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-I want to know about his emotions

-and feelings about that year...

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-..which left a big mark

-on the both of us.

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-Arthur Scargill could have been one

-of

-the

-great Trade Union leaders.

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-But when you adopt a dogma,

-a doctrine as Arthur Scargill did...

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-..it means you only have to make up

-your mind once in your life.

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-Then, the rest of your life

-is dedicated to making it fulfilled.

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-We've been on strike for 21 weeks.

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-Mr MacGregor, if you think

-we're going to go back...

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-..if you withdraw

-your pit closure plan...

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-..you're living

-in cloud cuckoo land.

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-You're going to have to resolve the

-wages question, a four-day week...

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-..and many other things that have

-been outstanding for 20 years.

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-Whatever one feels about the man...

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-..he was an incredibly

-impressive figure.

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-When he walked into a room,

-you felt the electricity in the air.

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-I was elected at the beginning

-of October 1983.

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-Among the first Trade Union leaders

-I had to speak to...

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-..was Arthur Scargill.

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-We had a meeting in the

-first week of November 1983.

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-I had no difficulty upholding

-the argument for the case for coal.

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-You were a leader for

-the Labour Party, a miner's son...

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-..and representing

-a mining constituency.

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-Here you are,

-catapulted into what became...

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-..the most bitter industrial

-dispute in living memory.

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-The strike was

-politically gigantic...

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-..in its effects

-on the Labour Party.

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-It provided Mrs Thatcher...

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-..with at least a period

-of utter domination.

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-That central question of the

-national ballot cast a shadow...

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-..and was used very effectively

-by the opponents of the miners.

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-Yes, absolutely.

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-By early April, when I was appealing

-privately, directly to Scargill...

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-..if there's no ballot,

-you will fail, you will lose.

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-You must have a national ballot.

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-The miners of Britain needed every

-piece of armament they could get.

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-But, the missing part

-of their armament...

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-..and the thing that was

-absent from any strategy...

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-..was the democratic

-legitimizing mandate...

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-..that would have ensured

-the whole of the mining workforce...

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-..including Nottinghamshire

-came out.

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-If there had been

-a national ballot...

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-..it would have entirely

-legitimized the strike.

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-When instead of having a ballot,

-Arthur Scargill embraced the idea...

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-..that picketing

-could replace balloting.

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-You could physically prevent people

-from getting to work or moving coal.

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-Then of course,

-chaos started to take over.

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-In that situation, you need

-to look to the cameras and say...

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-"There is a democratic mandate.

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-"People have cast their vote.

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-"They've given us instructions

-and that is why we're continuing."

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-People would have honoured it.

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-Was there any prospect

-of an agreement during the strike?

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-By June, it became apparent...

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-..that there was going to be

-a long strike.

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-By then, the first efforts began...

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-..to encourage MacGregor

-and Scargill to come to the table.

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-But, these events

-kept on fizzling out.

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-That went on through June,

-into July and into August...

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-..and as late as October 1984.

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-There was a changed formula...

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-..for consideration of proposals

-to close collieries.

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-If Scargill had accepted it,

-it would have secured a victory...

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-..that had really altered the

-conditions on the coal fields...

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-..and changed the way proposals

-would be made for colliery closures.

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-Those things were available.

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-MacGregor even accepted them.

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-Scargill dismissed the lot.

-None of us could understand it.

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-It was dismissed...

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-..and not communicated to

-the mining workforce at all.

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-I will always believe that those

-wonderful human qualities...

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-..were abused by a leader...

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-..who was interested in the

-fulfilment of his doctrine...

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-..much more

-than he was interested...

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-..in securing a reasonable

-achievable victory for the miners...

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-..and resulting in the protection

-of at least a substantial amount...

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-..of collieries and jobs,

-if not every last one in Britain.

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-Your natural sympathies...

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-..would have been to be at the

-forefront of this dispute.

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-Yet your position as leader of the

-Labour Party must have torn you.

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-Why didn't you do more?

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-One of the factors that guided me

-from the early days...

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-..was the determination...

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-..not to do anything, that could be

-represented by Scargill...

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-..as a reason for the

-ultimate defeat of the miners.

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-I wanted to absolutely guarantee

-that he carried all of the blame...

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-..not carried by Margaret Thatcher.

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-When this strike ended,

-I hoped not in ignominy...

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-..but my hopes weren't fulfilled...

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-..that Scargill would not

-be able to say...

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-"If only the Labour Leader hadn't or

-had done this, we would have won."

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-There you are,

-in the middle of the strike, Neil...

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-..Her Majesty's Leader

-of the Opposition.

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-But, you were helpless.

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-But, you were helpless.

-

-I was utterly helpless.

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-In one sense, I was so helpless,

-I couldn't confess helplessness.

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-I had to leave it to other people

-to describe me as that and worse!

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-But all the time,

-the churning within me...

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-..was because of what was happening

-on the coalfields and communities.

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-What was happening

-at the leadership of the NUM...

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-..and 10 Downing Street was searing.

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-Do you have any regrets

-or done anything differently?

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-I did everything that I could.

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-I was desperately saddened

-but certain that without a ballot...

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-..the strike, however long

-it lasted, could not result...

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-..in the saving of the coal industry

-and everything that went with it.

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-I've never felt so hopeless

-in my life...

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-..but I couldn't afford to despair.

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-He had chosen his way and his path.

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-Once you choose to be the British

-leader of the Labour Party...

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-..there are some times

-when you have to follow logic.

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-You sacrifice

-the miners on the altar...

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-..to win the next election.

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-He wanted to be the

-British Prime Minister.

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-There are some things you must

-do to be the Prime Minister.

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-One of those things...

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-..is to not put the South Wales

-miners first at all times.

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-.

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-Subtitles

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-Subtitles

-

-Subtitles

0:22:490:22:51

-My name is Adam Price.

0:22:520:22:53

-I'm on a journey to uncover the

-story of the 1984-85 Miners' Strike.

0:22:540:22:59

-I recall seeing images of the strike

-on the television at home everyday.

0:23:010:23:06

-But, I wasn't confident that the

-media was broadcasting the truth.

0:23:070:23:12

-I felt they sided with the state,

-judged the miners...

0:23:130:23:17

-..and supported those

-who broke the strike.

0:23:170:23:20

-How difficult was it to be

-a journalist during these troubles?

0:23:200:23:26

-Vaughan Roderick has

-followed the story for Newyddion 7.

0:23:260:23:31

-If the new tactics

-by the miners are a success...

0:23:320:23:35

-..the steel corporations' problems

-will intensify.

0:23:350:23:39

-There's plenty of iron ore in

-Llanwern for another month's work.

0:23:390:23:43

-I recall Vaughan's reports...

0:23:450:23:47

-..about the lorries transporting

-coal along the M4.

0:23:470:23:51

-There were reports of violence

-on the picket lines...

0:23:520:23:56

-..as miners stopped coal entering

-the Llanwern and Port Talbot works.

0:23:560:24:02

-The convoys of lorries travelling

-on the M4 were unbelievable.

0:24:080:24:13

-There was about 100 to 150 lorries

-and they stretched for miles.

0:24:130:24:19

-When men began returning to work

-in the final months of the strike...

0:24:190:24:25

-..the only conflict that took place

-was at Port Talbot and Llanwern.

0:24:250:24:31

-By using hundreds of lorries...

0:24:320:24:34

-..the steel corporations

-managed to supply the works.

0:24:350:24:39

-All attempts by miners to block

-entrances were all in vain.

0:24:390:24:43

-This was possibly

-the first live strike...

0:24:450:24:50

-..to be seen on the television.

0:24:500:24:52

-Definitely.

0:24:530:24:54

-Some of the most powerful images

-we remember from the strike...

0:24:540:24:59

-..are images taken from the cars

-crossing the picket lines...

0:24:590:25:03

-..including those images

-of the picket line at Aberaman.

0:25:040:25:08

-Joy Watson drove her

-husband into work again.

0:25:080:25:11

-This time,

-she has an ITN camera in the back...

0:25:120:25:15

-..and the reception

-was even more violent.

0:25:160:25:19

-A stone smashed through the window,

-hitting the driver.

0:25:190:25:24

-The traffic forced the car to stop.

0:25:260:25:29

-The women took advantage.

0:25:290:25:32

-Some people including journalists...

0:25:350:25:38

-..have said the strike

-was one of the defining moments...

0:25:380:25:44

-..of the latter half

-of the 20th Century for them.

0:25:440:25:48

-Was it that important

-or do we think about it too much?

0:25:480:25:52

-It was the War and Peace

-of journalism.

0:25:530:25:56

-There were a number

-of colourful characters...

0:25:560:26:00

-..the pathos which included

-sad and terrible times...

0:26:000:26:06

-..and it also had the

-occasional heroic elements.

0:26:060:26:10

-It was just like watching a drama

-or a tale.

0:26:110:26:16

-Most of my work centred around

-the coal mines in the east.

0:26:210:26:25

-I followed the convoys

-from Port Talbot to Llanwern.

0:26:260:26:29

-You could see the efforts to stop

-the lorries from entering.

0:26:300:26:35

-In reality,

-the events that took place...

0:26:360:26:40

-..at Port Talbot,

-Llanwern and Phurnacite...

0:26:400:26:43

-..are among the most defining...

0:26:440:26:48

-..and violent moments

-on the picket lines of South Wales.

0:26:480:26:53

-As a journalist...

0:27:020:27:05

-..you had to be impartial

-to both sides in your items.

0:27:060:27:11

-It must have had

-an emotional affect on you...

0:27:120:27:16

-..as you came from the area

-and knew the people.

0:27:160:27:20

-You knew the importance

-of these communities.

0:27:200:27:24

-You're not a robot

-so you are affected by these things.

0:27:240:27:28

-On the other hand,

-I had to be just like a doctor...

0:27:290:27:33

-..as I had a professional

-responsibility not to show it.

0:27:330:27:38

-In almost every other coal field...

0:27:380:27:41

-..people would have to film

-from behind the police lines...

0:27:410:27:46

-..from the perspective

-of the police.

0:27:460:27:49

-There was a bad relationship between

-the miners and journalists...

0:27:490:27:54

-..so this was the only option.

0:27:540:27:56

-Was there disagreement

-in the conference?

0:27:570:28:00

-The conference decision was to not

-speak to the press out here.

0:28:000:28:04

-Anybody making statements to the

-press will be the president only.

0:28:040:28:09

-There are no statements

-to the press.

0:28:090:28:12

-We're stopping it from by here.

0:28:120:28:14

-The relationship between

-Welsh miners and journalists...

0:28:140:28:18

-..was good enough

-to give us more freedom to film.

0:28:180:28:22

-But, this was not the case

-in Orgreave and Yorkshire.

0:28:230:28:28

-I'm confident

-that our portrayal of the strike...

0:28:280:28:32

-..was as complete and as fair

-as it could be.

0:28:320:28:38

-I remember watching

-the evening bulletins.

0:28:380:28:44

-You broadcast the figures...

0:28:440:28:47

-..in terms of those miners

-who had returned to work.

0:28:470:28:51

-Was that crossing the line?

0:28:520:28:55

-Was the media used as some

-sort of instrument by the state?

0:28:550:29:00

-Were we being used?

0:29:010:29:04

-It's a good question.

0:29:050:29:07

-The fact that 100 men had returned

-to work was a news story.

0:29:080:29:11

-The difficult role facing the media

-was to create the narrative...

0:29:120:29:17

-..that the strike

-was beginning to weaken.

0:29:170:29:21

-In that sense, there was no choice.

0:29:210:29:24

-It would have been wrong for a news

-outlet not to report that story.

0:29:240:29:30

-The effect of this genuine story...

0:29:300:29:34

-..was to encourage other miners

-to return.

0:29:340:29:37

-The NCB claimed that 53 men

-broke the strike in South Wales.

0:29:370:29:43

-The board's spokesman claimed

-that 468 miners were at work today.

0:29:430:29:48

-But, the union corrected

-the figure as 325.

0:29:490:29:52

-Did you feel that history was being

-made and that you were a part of it?

0:29:520:29:57

-If someone had asked me

-during the strike...

0:29:570:30:01

-..that it would mean the end of the

-mining industry in South Wales...

0:30:010:30:05

-..then I wouldn't have believed it.

0:30:050:30:08

-I don't think the

-most pessimistic of miners...

0:30:090:30:13

-..would have believed

-that the National Coal Board...

0:30:130:30:17

-..would close all the mines.

0:30:170:30:19

-This big strike was the end of

-the industrial revolution in Wales.

0:30:220:30:28

-It was where

-the industrial revolution began.

0:30:280:30:32

-It's important historically

-as the final chapter.

0:30:320:30:37

-The efforts of the miners

-had been in vain...

0:30:370:30:40

-..but the period

-had transformed Wales.

0:30:410:30:44

-The prominent individuals

-of the dispute...

0:30:440:30:48

-..saw the opportunity to make sure

-that it wouldn't happen again.

0:30:480:30:54

-There will problems across Wales

-following the strike.

0:30:540:30:58

-If people want us to continue,

-then that is what we will do.

0:30:580:31:03

-I've come to meet Hywel Francis

-at the DOVE centre in Cwmdulais.

0:31:040:31:09

-How did the disappointment

-of the strike's failure...

0:31:090:31:13

-..turn into a desire

-for new politics?

0:31:130:31:16

-You were central to the creation...

0:31:170:31:19

-..of the Wales Congress

-in Support of Mining Communities.

0:31:190:31:24

-This is what was important.

0:31:240:31:26

-We felt there was a lot of support

-across the whole of Wales...

0:31:260:31:31

-..for the miners...

0:31:310:31:35

-..that we needed to establish

-an organization.

0:31:350:31:38

-There was Plaid Cymru,

-the Labour Party...

0:31:380:31:42

-..unions, churches, gays

-and the Welsh Language Society.

0:31:420:31:47

-We needed to bring and

-bind them together...

0:31:470:31:51

-..to create this organization.

0:31:510:31:54

-I always felt we had to move the

-battle away from the picket lines.

0:31:540:31:59

-It was important, but we needed

-to move it back to the communities.

0:31:590:32:05

-The community was strong.

0:32:060:32:07

-When I speak of community,

-I mean Wales as a whole.

0:32:070:32:11

-Some have said in the years

-since the strike...

0:32:110:32:16

-..that the Wales Congress

-in Support of Mining Communities...

0:32:170:32:21

-..was a turning point

-in the attitude towards devolution.

0:32:210:32:26

-It was never discussed at the time,

-but a seed had been planted.

0:32:260:32:32

-I didn't understand it at the time.

0:32:320:32:35

-I understood the importance of

-establishing the congress for Wales.

0:32:350:32:41

-We wanted the nation to be part

-of this working class battle.

0:32:410:32:47

-But we had no idea

-that within 20 years...

0:32:470:32:52

-..we could help to establish

-the National Assembly.

0:32:520:32:56

-The roots of the Assembly

-were in that battle.

0:32:560:33:01

-I'm certain of it.

0:33:010:33:03

-Hywel Francis wasn't the only one...

0:33:040:33:07

-..who thought the vast political

-and industrial change...

0:33:070:33:12

-..stemmed from that year.

0:33:120:33:14

-I went on a personal journey from

-voting Labour to join Plaid Cymru.

0:33:140:33:19

-Without the strike,

-I can't imagine who I'd be today.

0:33:190:33:23

-I would be a different Adam.

0:33:230:33:25

-I've come to meet a man who was

-called the Member for the Miners.

0:33:260:33:30

-He was a man

-who influenced me as a boy.

0:33:300:33:34

-What were the obligations of losing

-the strike to the future of Wales?

0:33:340:33:39

-As Britain lurches further

-and further to the right...

0:33:390:33:43

-..only we in Wales, can stop

-our society moving the same way.

0:33:430:33:47

-We must do it ourselves...

0:33:470:33:49

-..and build on what

-has happened this year.

0:33:500:33:53

-We were attempting

-to express our opposition...

0:33:530:33:57

-..by saying "no"

-to what was happening.

0:33:570:34:00

-But as you say "no"...

0:34:000:34:02

-..you must also offer suggestions

-for a possible solution.

0:34:020:34:06

-In my case, I joined the party

-during the strike.

0:34:070:34:12

-The whole family joined the party...

0:34:120:34:15

-..a family who had traditionally

-been supporters of Labour.

0:34:160:34:21

-In one way, it's easy

-to see the strike as reactive.

0:34:210:34:25

-We were reacting

-to a community crisis...

0:34:250:34:28

-..where the majority of the

-working class were being oppressed.

0:34:280:34:34

-As in every large-scale conflict...

0:34:340:34:37

-..something challenging

-develops from it.

0:34:370:34:42

-Our working class in Wales...

0:34:440:34:49

-..was being destroyed...

0:34:490:34:51

-..by the decisions of

-a right-wing government.

0:34:520:34:55

-They were determined not to allow

-miners to impose any conditions...

0:34:560:35:02

-..on the way the government would

-privatize the energy industries.

0:35:020:35:08

-This was central to all occurrences.

0:35:080:35:12

-I recall you saying...

0:35:120:35:14

-..that the strike was

-the national battle...

0:35:150:35:19

-..and the national organization

-held the same values even then.

0:35:190:35:24

-You must remember

-that there was no other choice.

0:35:240:35:27

-This was something that challenged

-the whole of Wales.

0:35:270:35:32

-We had to react to it.

0:35:320:35:34

-This was the new dimension for me

-within the politics of the strike.

0:35:340:35:39

-In the end, the strike was lost.

0:35:430:35:45

-What were the results

-of that for Wales?

0:35:450:35:48

-It was a turning point...

0:35:480:35:51

-..from the old industrial era

-and its conflicts...

0:35:520:35:56

-..towards a new idea of Wales and

-the need for more powers in Wales.

0:35:570:36:02

-Was the Senedd building

-and the National Assembly...

0:36:040:36:08

-..based in some way

-on this new-found awareness?

0:36:090:36:12

-Yes,

-as the conflict behind the strike...

0:36:130:36:18

-..was between the Welsh people and

-miners and the British Government.

0:36:180:36:24

-The only answer or solution...

0:36:250:36:28

-..was not

-to allow this to happen again.

0:36:290:36:32

-.

0:36:410:36:41

-Subtitles

0:36:440:36:44

-Subtitles

-

-Subtitles

0:36:440:36:46

-I'm Adam Price and I'm on a journey

-back to the strike of 1984-85.

0:36:480:36:54

-It was a strike that

-would change my life forever.

0:36:540:36:58

-As it came to a bitter end...

0:36:590:37:01

-..who was responsible for it

-and how did it happen?

0:37:010:37:05

-To answer those questions...

0:37:050:37:08

-..we're joined in Cardiff

-by Kim Howells of South Wales NUM.

0:37:080:37:12

-It would be foolish to deny...

0:37:120:37:15

-..that for the first time, we've got

-people actually going back to work.

0:37:150:37:20

-It's made them think and everyone

-is down on their uppers.

0:37:210:37:25

-What people are on

-strike about really...

0:37:250:37:28

-..is asserting that the

-pits belong to everyone.

0:37:280:37:31

-The miners must have a say

-in determining their future.

0:37:320:37:35

-This does sound different...

0:37:360:37:38

-..to what we've heard from

-Mr Scargill and others.

0:37:390:37:42

-I've come to meet Kim Howells, an

-influential figure within the NUM...

0:37:420:37:47

-..to learn about the strike's final

-chapter that changed Wales forever.

0:37:480:37:53

-Hello, Kim.

0:37:530:37:54

-Hello, Kim.

-

-Adam, lovely to see you.

0:37:540:37:56

-I was born into a mining

-community in Aberdare.

0:37:590:38:02

-My uncles had worked at this pit.

0:38:030:38:05

-My father had worked here

-for a short time.

0:38:050:38:09

-The talk in the house

-was always about this industry.

0:38:100:38:15

-It was amazing what people did.

0:38:160:38:19

-The November of the strike came.

0:38:220:38:25

-It was a dark, cold

-and horrible month.

0:38:250:38:28

-This thing had gone on

-and people were suffering.

0:38:290:38:32

-Suddenly,

-we heard the terrible news...

0:38:320:38:35

-..that two young boys had pushed

-a concrete post off a bridge...

0:38:350:38:40

-..on the Heads of the Valleys Road

-and it was terrible.

0:38:400:38:44

-David Williams decided to return to

-work at the Merthyr Vale Colliery.

0:38:440:38:49

-As the taxi was travelling, concrete

-pieces were dropped from the bridge.

0:38:500:38:55

-The driver, David Wilkie,

-lost control of the car.

0:38:550:38:59

-And a rally was organized.

0:38:590:39:02

-I thought that someone ought

-to be there and say these things.

0:39:030:39:08

-I got up and said...

0:39:080:39:09

-..that this is the way

-the strike has been prosecuted.

0:39:100:39:14

-There has been violence...

0:39:140:39:17

-..and there shouldn't be violence.

0:39:170:39:20

-Miners shouldn't be fighting miners.

0:39:200:39:23

-This is terrible,

-this is a sign of weakness...

0:39:240:39:28

-..not strength and determination.

0:39:280:39:31

-I said that and said that

-it could have happened to any of us.

0:39:320:39:36

-Any of us who threw anything

-or maybe tried to stop a lorry.

0:39:360:39:42

-That lorry could have veered

-off the road and killed others.

0:39:420:39:47

-It was a disgrace...

0:39:470:39:49

-..that the National Leadership

-were too gutless to admit that...

0:39:490:39:53

-..to say that we're not having

-any more of that.

0:39:540:39:57

-We're going to stop

-and use our brains.

0:39:570:40:00

-But, they didn't. They didn't have

-the courage or the brains to do it.

0:40:000:40:05

-During the strike...

0:40:050:40:07

-..I was radicalized as a young

-miner's son and very politicized.

0:40:070:40:13

-Alongside Dafydd Elis-Thomas...

0:40:130:40:16

-..you were the

-biggest influence on me.

0:40:160:40:21

-I don't think it's too much

-of an exaggeration to say...

0:40:210:40:25

-..that you were a political hero.

0:40:260:40:28

-At the end of the strike...

0:40:280:40:30

-..you articulated the

-need to return to work...

0:40:310:40:34

-..I almost felt like my hero

-had been taken away from me.

0:40:350:40:40

-Adam, its easy to say this,

-looking back in hindsight.

0:40:400:40:45

-I can't remember anything

-we had been so passionate about...

0:40:450:40:50

-..about prosecuting that strike

-until it finished.

0:40:500:40:54

-I can't imagine any situation

-where individual areas...

0:40:540:40:58

-..would decide to

-go back on their own.

0:40:580:41:01

-South Wales would

-certainly never do that.

0:41:010:41:04

-It would abide

-by a national decision.

0:41:040:41:07

-That decision might take

-all sorts of forms.

0:41:070:41:10

-In South Wales,

-there are lodges who'd say...

0:41:110:41:14

-"Perhaps it's best

-to maintain the NUM...

0:41:140:41:17

-"..and return to work and fight

-it on a pit by pit basis."

0:41:170:41:21

-We were causing them

-to relinquish...

0:41:210:41:25

-..something that had been

-precious and dear to them.

0:41:250:41:28

-That was the democratic nature of

-the National Union of Mineworkers.

0:41:290:41:34

-That democratic constitution

-was something they fought for...

0:41:350:41:40

-..and here we were transgressing

-across all of that.

0:41:400:41:44

-You don't regret making that call

-in the dying days of the strike.

0:41:450:41:51

-No, we should have

-made it much earlier.

0:41:510:41:54

-It was the hardest thing

-I've ever had to do.

0:41:540:41:57

-We'd done our best

-as an area union...

0:41:570:42:00

-..to try and convince everybody

-that this strike was winnable.

0:42:000:42:05

-But, we had to say enough is enough.

0:42:050:42:07

-The suffering is pointless and

-we're going to lose this dispute...

0:42:070:42:13

-..and lose the union,

-if we don't act now.

0:42:130:42:16

-It has been the considered view of

-conference, by a very narrow vote...

0:42:180:42:23

-..that we should

-return on Tuesday...

0:42:230:42:26

-..and continue the fight,

-as far as this union is concerned.

0:42:260:42:30

-I saw grown men in tears

-at having to go back.

0:42:310:42:34

-Like my wife told me...

0:42:340:42:36

-"You will not go back to work

-George, if you've got to eat grass."

0:42:360:42:41

-She said, "I'll eat glass with you.

0:42:410:42:43

-"But I feel so ashamed

-of my fellow workmen...

0:42:430:42:46

-"..for what they've turned round

-and done to my union."

0:42:470:42:50

-We felt that in so many ways,

-it would be the end of Wales.

0:42:510:42:55

-It would be the end of something

-that was very remarkable.

0:42:550:42:59

-It was

-a very remarkable community...

0:42:590:43:02

-..and a very remarkable people.

0:43:020:43:05

-The real betrayal

-was the lack of national leadership.

0:43:070:43:12

-We were the ones

-who remained loyal and stayed out.

0:43:130:43:16

-We were the ones who witnessed

-families below the bread line...

0:43:160:43:22

-..going through the most terrible

-privations.

0:43:220:43:25

-Yet, here we were,

-being lectured to by Scargill.

0:43:260:43:31

-People were going

-from rally to rally...

0:43:310:43:34

-..being lorded by their followers.

0:43:340:43:39

-It was nonsense because

-the suffering on the coal field...

0:43:400:43:44

-..meant they should have looked

-at what was likely to happen.

0:43:440:43:49

-Were we ever going to win?

0:43:490:43:51

-There were people who wanted

-it to go on forever.

0:43:510:43:55

-They loved it.

-It was the best time they ever had.

0:43:550:43:59

-It was nonsense, a crime actually.

0:44:020:44:05

-It was a crime that

-the boys in Cynheidre...

0:44:060:44:09

-..were being forced back to work

-after ten or eleven months...

0:44:090:44:13

-..and being called scabs.

0:44:140:44:16

-What other workforce would have

-stayed out for that length of time?

0:44:160:44:22

-It was all blather.

0:44:220:44:24

-The real suffering was amongst those

-families who were on strike.

0:44:240:44:29

-It was a disgrace

-that Scargill and the rest...

0:44:290:44:32

-..didn't to do anything about it.

0:44:320:44:35

-It doesn't take much to get men out

-on strike if they have a grievance.

0:44:390:44:44

-You've got to be a lion to get to

-those men and say...

0:44:440:44:48

-"We've achieved all we can achieve.

-We've got to go back."

0:44:480:44:53

-You strip everything away

-and all of the detail.

0:44:550:45:00

-The thing that remains is the

-incredible sense...

0:45:000:45:03

-..of collective self-sacrifice

-for a bigger ideal.

0:45:030:45:07

-In a way, many mistakes were made...

0:45:070:45:11

-..but I'm still glad

-I was part of it.

0:45:110:45:14

-You're right.

-You've expressed it beautifully.

0:45:140:45:18

-It was a kind of renaissance

-in many ways.

0:45:180:45:21

-It marked my generation,

-like nothing else did.

0:45:220:45:26

-The 1984-85 strike...

0:45:260:45:29

-..was something that none of us

-had ever expected.

0:45:290:45:33

-None of us had lived through it

-previously and never will again.

0:45:330:45:37

-Dad!

0:45:480:45:49

-There's no doubt that the 1984-85

-strike is what made me as a person.

0:45:540:45:59

-In the following years

-as a politician...

0:45:590:46:03

-..when I tried to remind myself

-of who I was...

0:46:030:46:07

-..and about my values...

0:46:080:46:09

-..I would turn back

-to the strike as an anchor.

0:46:100:46:13

-It was that important to me.

0:46:130:46:15

-As I looked back

-at the strike's history...

0:46:170:46:21

-..and met the characters

-on the opposing sides, I was scared.

0:46:210:46:26

-Would I see the strike

-as something nostalgic?

0:46:270:46:30

-Would I see it as a false

-golden age which didn't exist?

0:46:310:46:35

-I still feel

-that the strike was right.

0:46:380:46:42

-I still feel as passionate

-about it today as I did then.

0:46:420:46:48

-It was right for us

-to stand as we did.

0:46:480:46:51

-There are people who were my heroes

-during the strike...

0:46:540:46:59

-..and they are

-still my heroes today.

0:47:000:47:02

-They are the ordinary miners

-and their families.

0:47:020:47:06

-This is why the strike

-is important to me.

0:47:060:47:09

-The strike was due to an idea.

0:47:090:47:12

-They weren't striking for

-themselves but for the principle...

0:47:130:47:18

-..that communities are more

-important than selfish objectives.

0:47:180:47:24

-This is what happened in the

-strike and it could happen again!

0:47:240:47:28

-The miners, the miners,

-will never be defeated!

0:47:350:47:38

-The miners, the miners,

-will never be defeated!

0:47:390:47:42

-The miners, the miners,

-will never be defeated!

0:47:420:47:46

-S4C Subtitles by Tinopolis

0:48:220:48:24

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0:48:240:48:24

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