Pennod 5 Ar Lafar

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-Forty years ago, comparatively

-few adults learnt Welsh.

-Now, they're an integral part

-of the fabric of Welsh.

-As the Welsh heartland dwindles...

-..some believe learners

-are the future of Welsh.

-But will this affect

-the dialects of Welsh?

-That's what I'm asking this week,

-starting at the National Eisteddfod.

-We say "wes" for yes.

-"Ciaeth fach" is a small cat.

-To me, the colliers whistling

-sounded like the Hallelujah Chorus.

-It was the strangest

-thing I ever heard.

-"Miglo".

-"Miglo" is when you disappear.

-The Vale Of Glamorgan

-National Eisteddfod.

-Walking round the Maes...

-..it's great to meet

-old friends for a chat or gossip.

-But what if they're learning Welsh?

-When you meet a Welsh learner,

-do you change the way you speak?

-Maybe I speak a little slower.

-I talk louder.

-Do you?

-Do you?

-

-Like when you're abroad.

-RAISES VOICE

-

-Hello! How... are... you?

-I use simpler words and maybe use

-correct Welsh that they understand.

-I'd use more Welsh

-words with learners.

-I might use

-a few English words with you.

-When I speak German,

-I'm not very fluent.

-It's nice when someone speaks

-a little more slowly and clearly.

-Then you get a better conversation.

-What about dialect forms?

-I don't change that.

-For me, this is the correct dialect.

-LAUGHTER

-Would you use fewer dialect words?

-I don't think I could do that.

-I'm afraid I'd speak English, if

-I thought they didn't understand.

-My boyfriend's a learner,

-but I don't speak Welsh with him.

-May I ask why?

-Because we started speaking English.

-I went to the Eisteddfod for

-the Learner Of The Year competition.

-This year's winner,

-Isaias Grandis, came from Patagonia.

-I had an opportunity

-to chat with him.

-You don't have Welsh ancestors.

-You don't have Welsh ancestors.

-

-No.

-I'm not from Patagonia

-originally either.

-My family moved there

-when I was four.

-I'm from Cordoba, Central Argentina.

-My ancestors were Spanish,

-Italian and native.

-It's the perfect mix

-for a true Argentinean.

-Now, I'm a Welsh Argentinean.

-The language is very

-interesting there.

-They speak 19th century Welsh.

-You hear things like...

-.."siop drygistwr" for a pharmacy.

-And holidays.

-No-one talked about

-"gwyliau" in the 19th century.

-Things like that

-are very interesting.

-Spanish influences Welsh there.

-We don't say

-"dewch i mewn", come in.

-We say "pasiwch ymlaen",

-pass forward, like Spanish.

-What is the Spanish phrase?

-"Pase adelante".

-When we speak, we add

-"welsoch chi" or "welaist ti"...

-..meaning something like "so".

-In Spanish, it's "viste",

-which means the same thing.

-Patagonia Welsh is very interesting.

-I would say that there is a South

-Wales Welsh, North Wales Welsh...

-..maybe Mid Wales Welsh

-and Patagonia Welsh.

-Later, a meeting was held

-in the Maes D Pavilion.

-Patagonia has won

-this award, not me.

-This is going to open

-the eyes of the people...

-..who work for the government.

-It can also inspire many people

-in Patagonia. Thank you very much.

-After the meeting,

-I had a chat with Kay Holder...

-..last year's Learner Of The Year.

-How did it feel

-to receive the award?

-The label Learner Of The Year

-gave me something different.

-I worked with stewards the night

-before the award evening.

-They talked to me

-naturally in Welsh.

-After winning, I was on TV.

-A steward came up to me

-and congratulated me, in English!

-He had changed his mind about me.

-He thought, "I must help her.

-She's a learner."

-After winning the award,

-Kay was inspired...

-..to participate in Welsh life

-in the Vale Of Glamorgan.

-This morning, we launched a campaign

-to establish a Welsh centre...

-..so that Welsh speakers

-and learners have somewhere to meet.

-And more importantly, possibly...

-..to show non-Welsh speakers in

-the area that the Welsh language...

-Exists?

-Exists?

-

-Yes. That's the Eisteddfod effect.

-That what I want to see in the Vale.

-That what I want to see in the Vale.

-

-To prolong that effect.

-Exactly, as they did in Wrexham,

-with the Saith Seren centre.

-Madison Tazu is English,

-but from an Irish family.

-She grew up in Newcastle Emlyn.

-She was the Learner

-Of The Year in 2008.

-But that wasn't the end

-of her journey.

-When I won the Learner Of The Year,

-I thought it wasn't difficult.

-I studied Welsh for ten months.

-I won the Learner Of The Year.

-I didn't think joining in Welsh life

-would be difficult. But it is.

-Once learners reach a certain point,

-where we're fairly fluent...

-..but maybe don't speak perfectly,

-there are no courses.

-That was quite hard for me.

-How do you create

-a Welsh life for yourself?

-I think it's difficult.

-The easiest way is by marrying or

-having a partner who speaks Welsh.

-Then there's a connection between

-yourself and the Welsh community...

-..because your partner speaks Welsh.

-Madison isn't in

-a relationship at the moment.

-So she takes other

-opportunities to speak Welsh.

-I work in a care home.

-Some people speak Welsh there.

-I really appreciate

-speaking Welsh to them.

-It's nice to see you. How are you?

-Fine. How are you?

-Fine. How are you?

-

-Fine, thanks. I've missed you.

-You look after us well.

-Thank you.

-I stayed in a place not far

-from Karaez for three months.

-Did you enjoy yourself there?

-It was marvellous.

-Do you speak French?

-It's rather rusty,

-because I don't use it.

-That's how it is with languages.

-Tea for people there

-and in the lounges. Thank you.

-Rosie.

-Do you want a cup of tea?

-Yes. No sugar.

-Here you are.

-Thank you.

-Later, I met Madison and her

-friends, Rhisiart from England...

-..Tamsin from Wales

-and Hynek from the Czech Republic.

-They have all learnt Welsh.

-Do people know you've learnt Welsh

-and ask where you come from?

-If I get that,

-I say I come from Plwmp.

-Not usually.

-People don't.

-If they do, I say I live

-in Borth and that's it.

-They might ask where I came

-from originally and I'd tell them.

-Another problem for learners

-is starting to copy Welsh speakers.

-How long did it take you

-to reach that point?

-Six years.

-What did you do to reach that point?

-I want tips! What do I have to do?

-I got married.

-LAUGHTER

-That's what I said earlier!

-I'd prefer not to get

-that question all the time.

-"How did you learn Welsh?

-You've learnt it very well."

-That's always the conversation

-when you meet someone new.

-I think learners are at fault too.

-I'm terrible, when I meet someone

-and we speak Welsh...

-..I say, "I'm learning Welsh."

-I'm worried I'll make a mistake.

-I have to justify that, by

-explaining that I'm learning Welsh.

-It's a bad thing to do, really.

-I'm stuck with that label.

-It's a kind of prison.

-The only thing that makes me

-feel like a learner...

-..is that I sound like a learner.

-If we didn't sound like learners,

-the label would disappear.

-I'd like to speak like

-a farmer from South Ceredigion.

-That's my dream. It's what I want.

-If speaking in dialect is a way to

-lose the label "Welsh learner"...

-..would it be a good idea to learn

-more dialect from the start?

-Yes, it would. It's very important.

-It's a good way

-for them to settle in too.

-I picked up some Gwenhwyseg,

-the Gwent dialect.

-Mam spoke like that.

-And her aunt,

-whom we called "bopa".

-I heard people of her generation

-speaking good, dialect Welsh.

-I've taught adults

-at Glamorgan University.

-I've made a big effort

-to teach them the dialect.

-People from the area love it.

-I don't mind. It doesn't

-matter which dialect...

-..so long as they speak Welsh.

-In the second half,

-over a glass of wine and Zumba...

-..we hear the opinions

-of learners from all over Wales.

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-With more people learning Welsh

-as a second language...

-..will it influence

-the Welsh language in general?

-This is the Bangor office

-of Welsh For Adults.

-The agency provides

-Welsh courses in North Wales.

-Haydn Hughes

-is the centre's Deputy Director.

-Is Welsh changing,

-as the number of learners increases?

-I don't think

-it's possible to say now...

-..that there has

-been a great change.

-I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

-In the Welsh speaking community,

-accents change over the years.

-I'm old enough to remember...

-..an accent that was called

-the Welsh medium school accent...

-..in one school in South Wales.

-When it appeared

-on the accents landscape...

-..people were very critical of it.

-Now, it's one

-of the accents of Welsh.

-Welsh will have several new

-accents in the future, I'm sure.

-That's a sign that the language is

-viable and something to welcome.

-The important thing is to accept...

-..that learners from different

-backgrounds want to speak Welsh.

-The centre organizes events where

-Welsh learners meet Welsh speakers.

-Adrienne and Craig, on the left,

-are learning Welsh.

-They went with Clwb Gwawr

-Pen-y-groes to a local vineyard.

-What do you say? "Welcome to..."

-What do you say? "Welcome to..."

-

-Pant Du.

-Welcome to Pant Du. Let's all

-go to the cafe to keep warm.

-When did this scheme begin?

-When did this scheme begin?

-

-About a year and a half ago.

-We encourage Welsh

-medium societies...

-..to think of ways to attract

-learners to their activities.

-To make a link?

-To make a link?

-

-And to assimilate.

-Very important words.

-Is this the first time

-you've done this?

-Yes.

-Would you do it again?

-Would you do it again?

-

-Yes. It's an experience.

-It's good, to keep Welsh going.

-To draw people in, to join you.

-You've only been learning

-Welsh for six years.

-BACKGROUND CHAT

-In a Welsh area, you have

-to speak Welsh, really.

-I have children too.

-Does that help?

-Does that help?

-

-Yes.

-Because you speak with them.

-They help me too.

-My daughter says,

-"No, Mam, you don't say that."

-She corrects me.

-But her brother, Craig,

-learnt Welsh in another area.

-My mother comes from Pen-y-groes,

-just up the road.

-But she didn't speak Welsh with us.

-Where did you return to Welsh?

-Lampeter, Ceredigion.

-Does that mean your accent

-is different from your sister...

-..who learnt Welsh again here?

-I don't know.

-You could tell, better than me!

-It can be challenging for learners

-to settle in a Welsh community.

-They need confidence

-and practice in the local dialect.

-But Adrienne doesn't think those

-are the most important factors.

-It's not so much the language,

-but the culture.

-Like the Urdd.

-I don't know how it works.

-If you're Welsh, it's in your bones.

-You've grown up with it.

-You know the score.

-With things like the Eisteddfod...

-..even though I've lived

-here for seven years...

-..I'm only learning about it now.

-People assume you know.

-But if you haven't grown up here,

-you don't know how things work.

-If it's challenging

-to learn Welsh in Welsh areas...

-..the challenge is different in

-areas where Welsh isn't as strong.

-Meirion Davies is the Development

-Director for Menter Iaith Conwy.

-They work with Welsh For Adults...

-..to create a strategy

-for learners in North Wales.

-How many people register

-to learn Welsh every year?

-On average, about 20,000.

-But between 200 and 400,

-perhaps, become fluent every year.

-It's a very low percentage.

-What can be done

-to raise this figure?

-We concluded it would be better if

-people went on intensive courses...

-..and increase the hours,

-as well as their course.

-From my experience

-of learning another language...

-..on an intensive course, I felt

-I progressed a year in a week.

-If we want to produce fluent

-Welsh speakers, we must do that.

-If we want to produce...

-..an army or people who can say

-"bore da" and "pnawn da"...

-..we can carry on without it.

-The key is to make it easier for

-people to go on intensive courses.

-Say Something In Welsh

-is another kind of course.

-It's an online course, emphasizing

-listening and repetition.

-Once a month, people following

-the course meet in Tresaith...

-..to practise their Welsh

-and dance some Zumba.

-Everyone ready?

-ZUMBA MUSIC

-Forward! Good!

-Come on!

-As well as physical exercise,

-people can exercise their Welsh too.

-Good!

-Aran Jones is a co-founder

-of Say Something In Welsh.

-He used his own experience as a

-learner to create an online course.

-Why did you think

-another course was needed?

-When I reached the point where I

-lived through the medium of Welsh...

-..it was as if

-a switch had been turned.

-Suddenly, speaking another

-language wasn't impossible.

-It wasn't as hard as all that.

-I started to see that the internet

-created new opportunities.

-I looked at the situation. I knew a

-lot about learning Welsh as a user.

-I knew that kind of thing

-didn't exist in Welsh.

-After preparing

-the first fifteen lessons...

-..we released them

-on an internet page.

-We had about a thousand

-using them in a month.

-Really?

-Really?

-

-It's just grown since then.

-On the course, learners

-are encouraged from the start...

-..to use Welsh together

-and in local shops.

-May I have a double

-Turkish Delight cone, please?

-Do you want a flake

-or fudge with it?

-Why not?

-A single cone.

-Thanks.

-Rum and raisin, please.

-Ta-ra.

-The course enables you

-to speak naturally.

-You don't think about it.

-There's no writing at all.

-There's no writing at all.

-

-No writing or reading.

-You can choose South

-or North Wales Welsh.

-What are you following?

-I'm learning North Wales Welsh.

-And you?

-And you?

-

-North Wales.

-You come from Germany, don't you?

-Yes.

-Why North Wales Welsh?

-In the first lesson

-in South Wales Welsh...

-..the word "gallu" appeared.

-I didn't know how to say "ll".

-LAUGHTER

-In the North Wales course,

-they used "medru".

-It's easier to say.

-I didn't realize at first we'd see

-so many people using this method...

-..and they'd want to speak Welsh

-so early in the process.

-I don't remember that when

-I went through the Wlpan process.

-It was difficult to get people

-to use Welsh outside the class.

-There's something about

-discussing things in the forum...

-..and the confidence they get,

-in creating new sentences...

-..that has just caught on.

-Over supper, I asked the learners

-about the appeal of the course.

-It's important to develop

-our listening and speaking skills.

-We reach the point...

-..where we can communicate

-with Welsh speakers...

-..in a shorter time.

-The beginning of last year,

-I didn't speak a word of Welsh.

-I live in Manchester. I have no

-time to go to an evening class.

-So I download to my MP3

-and listen when I drive in the car.

-I learn on the way to work.

-When I learn with friends

-in Say Something In Welsh...

-..there's no pressure on me...

-..to look things up in a book.

-I just talk, talk, talk.

-It's natural.

-As the sun set, I left the crew

-and returned to the Eisteddfod...

-..to find out more about Welsh

-speakers' attitudes to learners.

-Is the term Welsh learner

-positive, negative or neutral?

-Positive. If someone

-is willing to try to learn Welsh...

-..we should support them.

-So it's positive.

-We shouldn't criticize

-or make them feel uncomfortable.

-We should be supportive.

-There's a point when

-they should stop being learners.

-I know people who call themselves

-learners, but they're not any more.

-Maybe we should call them

-Welsh speakers, not learners.

-When does one stop being a learner?

-When does one stop being a learner?

-

-I don't know.

-Maybe you're a learner forever,

-if it's not your mother tongue.

-So do Welsh speakers...

-..sometimes put up a barrier

-between themselves and learners?

-Are learners put

-on a pedestal, perhaps?

-I discussed this with blogger

-and learner, Carl Morris.

-Do we make a fetish of the learner?

-Yes, maybe in the media...

-..learners are put

-in a special category...

-..set apart from...

-People!

-There was an example this week.

-There was a story about

-the new Archdruid, Christine James.

-Some of the press

-said she was a learner...

-..although she's a lecturer

-in Welsh and completely fluent.

-I understand why they say "learner",

-because it's positive.

-But I favour

-the term "second language".

-Second language or learner,

-mother tongue or first language...

-..the term doesn't matter...

-..so long as they don't become

-polite words for us and them.

-So whatever our accent...

-..or when in our lives

-we mastered the language...

-..Welsh belongs to us all.

-It's a responsibility we all share.

-S4C Subtitles by Gwead

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