25/12/1984 Wogan


25/12/1984

First transmitted in 1984, Terry Wogan's Christmas Day guests include Freddie Starr, Kiri Te Kanawa and Elton John, with a special satellite interview with Victoria Principal.


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Transcript


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BBC Four Collections.

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Specially chosen programmes from the BBC archive.

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For this collection, Sir Michael Parkinson has selected

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BBC interviews with influential figures of the 20th century.

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More programmes on this theme, and other BBC Four Collections

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are available on BBC iPlayer.

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APPLAUSE

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Ho-ho-ho! Ho-ho-ho! Hello, my little gnomes and elves.

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A very happy Christmas.

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I hope your Christmas Day, and your whole Christmas,

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has brought you everything you wished for yourself and more.

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Just sit back in the mellow mood, probably the worst for drink,

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no more than we are ourselves...

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SLURS WORDS ..on this Christmas night...

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LAUGHTER I hope to add to your Christmas cheer

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with a bevy of stars,

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the like of which will astound and delight you.

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I shall have a primadonna... in the operatic sense,

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and a great supporting player in the wedding of the century,

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Dame Kiri Tikanawa will sing for us and talk to me as well.

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A great, great superstar, composer, pianist, performer,

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but probably best known in north-west London

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as the chairman of Watford Football Club.

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That will be Elton Hercules John.

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I shall be talking by scientific methods, across the sea,

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and over the Rocky Mountains, to Los Angeles,

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and there, by virtue of the satellite which has cost us a fortune,

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dressed to kill for Christmas, will be little Pammy Ewing,

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who demanded a rematch from last year.

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So it will be my pleasure to talk again to Victoria Principal

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in the course of the show.

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But first of all, a gentleman who made a ginormous impact

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last year on Wogan, and he has come back this year to apologise.

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Ladies and gentlemen, it is Freddie Starr.

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APPLAUSE

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# I just can't help believing

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# When she slips her hand in mine

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# And I feel so small and helpless

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# That my fingers fold around like a glove

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# And I just can't help believing

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# When she is whispering her magic

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# And her tears are shining honey sweet with love

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# This time the girl is going to stay

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# This time the girl is going to stay

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# For more than just a day

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# For more than just a day

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# I just can't help believing

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# When she slips her hand in mine

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# And it feels so small and helpless

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# That my fingers fold around it like a glove.

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# And I just can help believing

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# When she is whispering her magic

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# And her tears are shining honey sweet with love

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# This time the girl is going to stay

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# This time the girl is going to stay

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# For more than just a day

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# I just can't help believing I just can't help believing

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# I just can't help believing I just can't help believing. #

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CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

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- Come back to say you're sorry, eh? - Yeah. After all this time.

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- It has been two years, isn't it? - Yeah.

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What?

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What's been happening to you in those years?

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- Have things change for the better? - Yes, they have. They have changed.

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For the better?

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Honestly, no, for the better. They changed.

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I remember when you came the last time, you said,

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- "Things are going to change." - Yeah.

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LAUGHTER Did they?

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- I'll tell you what, Terry... - They haven't changed!

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Words right out of my mouth.

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Thanks to you, and the little old lady in Bournemouth...

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Who, Des O'Connor?

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LAUGHTER You know, eh?

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No, being serious, Terry, they have really changed for me,

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and everything is going fine now, you know.

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And the dog has come back now!

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Is there any danger, with the return to the top,

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you becoming...respectable?

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What?!

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You've got to... You've got to be...

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You've got to be different.

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You've got to come out, and when people ask you questions,

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you've got to answer the questions that you are asked.

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- Yeah. - When?

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How soon can we expect this minor miracle?

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Now.

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Have you had much of a Christmas Day, so far?

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Well, I stuffed a turkey.

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LAUGHTER

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I've got to kill her first, you know what I mean?

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- That is one way to kill it! - Yes, "Whoa, Paxo"!

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What did you do on Christmas...

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What did you do this morning, did you get up early

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and make sure the kids have their presents?

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Yeah, I got up, I fed the parrot...

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Well, it's his Christmas as well, isn't it?

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Yeah. I have got a parrot called Margaret.

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- It's her Christmas as well. - Yes.

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Who we named after Lennie Bennett's wife, Maggie.

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You know, "Not at all, not at all!"

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And also...

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I bought the dog a bone.

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# Knick-knack paddy-whack Give the dog a bone

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# This old man came rolling home. #

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I gave the dog a bone, and the dog went, "What's that?"

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LAUGHTER

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I said, "It is a bone!"

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"Oh." And then I woke the kids up,

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and they said, "what do you want?"

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And I said, "Ho-ho-ho!"

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What about your own Christmases as a kid in Liverpool?

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- Did you have a... - No, not really.

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I mean, most people, you know,

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my mates were very poor kids.

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And, you know, we used to go to the docks

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and rob things.

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You know, to keep me mam, give her a few bob, like.

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And I was going past, there was always a policeman on the gate.

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And he said, "Hey, what have you got under your arm?"

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I said, "Hairs. What have you got, feathers?"

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You've got lovely eyes!

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Most of your musical impressions

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seem to be based on stars of the '60s.

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By the way, I bought you a pair of shoes for Christmas.

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LAUGHTER

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- And... - The socks?

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I bought you a pair of socks.

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- They won't go with the trousers. - It is all right.

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You couldn't massage that foot there, could you, Terry?

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LAUGHTER

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They're warm, aren't they?

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It's all right, isn't it?

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LAUGHTER

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- But seriously... - Yes.

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Most...

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Most of your impersonations, your impressions,

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are based on the '60s, are they?

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- Sorry?! - Do you ever feel...

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Do you ever feel...

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It's certainly a far cry from Sophia Loren, I'll tell you that.

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Most of your impersonations are based... Can I try your shoe?

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You won't fit them. Put yours on.

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On the '60s, do you ever...

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You won't get them on. I've only got little feet.

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How do you walk in these? Huh?

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They are not walking shoes, they're for riding. You can't walk in them.

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Very pretty. Thank you.

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Just hang on a minute, I've got a call coming through.

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Hello?

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- 'Hello, how are you going?' - Back in five minutes, OK?

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- 'All right, then, ta-ra.' - Bye.

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LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE

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Could you do that with any shoe?

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Only that one.

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- Hello. - 'Hello, how are you going?'

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That one's... Hello.

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Hello!

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'Use the other shoe!'

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See?

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- What would you get on that? - This one? Um...

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Hello.

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QUIETLY IN WEST INDIAN ACCENT: Hello there.

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LAUGHTER

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It's a SOLE singer!

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LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE

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Yes.

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I need to ask you a question.

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Where do you go from here? What... Would you like to do...

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Seriously?

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Yeah. Would you like to do live television?

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Would you like to continue doing what you do successfully, cabaret?

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Would you like to take over a theatre?

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Where do you see Freddie Starr going from here?

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I'd like to do films. British films.

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I've written three film scripts already since I last saw you.

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That's true, actually. It is true.

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But traditionally, I mean,

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with the greatest respect to Morecambe and Wise

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and to Cannon and Ball, when they have made the transition,

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and Tony Hancock even,

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when they made the transition into film,

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it wasn't always successful.

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No, it depends what script you've got.

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I mean, you know, if you've got a good script,

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then you can work off it.

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And it's how you perform, you see. If you're...

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Say I was doing a scene with you...

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POSH VOICE: ..and I was talking like this...

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Yes, of course, I know that, yes.

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NORMAL VOICE: And you speak to me and ask me a question.

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- But seriously, Freddie, how... - Yes?

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LAUGHTER

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It's doing things with props.

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Do you understand? That's props. Using...

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As you're acting, using things.

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It's BBC props. You've dirtied a BBC prop.

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I'm very sorry, Terry, I'm humble.

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So you should be.

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- But... - So, it's making films for you.

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I'd like to make films, yes. And I would just...

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I'd like to wish the whole world that we live on, you know,

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because we don't live that long, you know,

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I'd like to wish...

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everybody, you know, a very happy Christmas.

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And I hope people stop being silly and stop killing each other and...

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doing daft things, you know.

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I wish you a happy Christmas as well.

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Thank you very much, Terry, thank you.

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APPLAUSE

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Freddie Starr, who's...

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LAUGHTER

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Freddie Starr, who's always welcome here.

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You had a short burst of...some

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some of his...

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You had a short burst of some of his finest operatic arias there. And...

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My next guest is, as I said earlier, a prima donna. A great operatic star.

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She's going to start with a song from the Auvergne.

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Dame Kiri Te Kanawa.

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APPLAUSE

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MUSIC: "Malurous qu'on uno fenno"

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SHE SINGS IN OCCITAN:

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# Malurous qu'o uno fenno

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# Malurous que n'o cat!

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# Malurous qu'o uno fenno Malurous que n'o cat!

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# Que n'o cat n'en bou uno

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# Que n'o uno n'en bou pas

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# Tradera, laderi derero Ladera, laderi dera

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# Tradera, laderi derero Ladera, laderi dera

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# Urouzo lo fenno

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# Qu'o l'ome que li cau!

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# Urouzo lo fenno Qu'o l'ome que li cau!

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Urouz' inquero maito O quelo que n'o cat!

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# Tradera, laderi derero Ladera, laderi dera

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# Tradera, laderi derero Ladera, laderi dera. #

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APPLAUSE

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- Well... - Thank you for asking me.

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That was nice and short, anyway. What was that?

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Well, it was a funny little song and it really means,

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on the short side of it, "Unlucky is the man who doesn't have a wife,

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"and equally unlucky is the man who DOES have a wife".

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Shrewd thinking by the Auvergnois... I would have thought.

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What... Now that you've sung this Auvergnois song,

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in your own inimitable style,

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Kiri Te Kanawa, illustrate it for me, what does it mean?

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The Kanawa? Kiri? In the Queen's, King's English.

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Ah, it's all very difficult.

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I don't know, people tell me out in New Zealand,

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it's "bell" for Kiri, and Te Kanawa was a chief.

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But, um, I don't know, I'd really like to get to the bottom of it.

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You don't seem very well versed in the old Maori tongue.

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Well, you see, no, well, I really should avoid all those questions

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because I think I'm not very good at all that.

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Because I was brought up on the, sort of, white side

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and I'm a little ashamed that I didn't learn a little bit more

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about my Maori-dom.

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I'm sure you're not ashamed at all. I'm sure they're very proud of you.

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How's your golf?

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LAUGHTER

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It's a bad day.

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Whose show is this?

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Are you sure you're Kiri Te Kanawa, the opera singer?

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LAUGHTER

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Yes.

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What...

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Des has been playing today, too. He's not very good.

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It's misty.

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Well, it's as well to keep track of what your husband is doing, isn't it?

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The Maori blood, how much is that...

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The Maoris are a great singing nation,

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It obviously played its part in developing you. You know.

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Well, I think the Maori people, because, you know,

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it's a really very close-knit community, very much like...

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I'd put it akin to the Welsh people, if I dare.

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Because we are sort of from that sort of background.

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I remember down in Greymouth where my mother was,

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there was the mining field down there.

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And they would all get together and they'd all sing

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or they'd all have brass bands.

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It's really rather beautiful, that sort of...

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Was it for the joy of living or because there was nothing else to do?

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I think, really, there was not television.

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And in some ways it was a very beautiful time for people to live,

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because you got to know each other and you made your own entertainment,

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you didn't have television to just switch on

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and say, "Well, dare I watch this?" Or "I don't want to..."

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Sometimes there's a lot of rubbish on television, I mean. Isn't there?

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LAUGHTER

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Very rarely on a Saturday night at 9.20!

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But it's true.

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And I really loved it when I was young and I grew up,

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and I had a wonderful, wonderful time singing

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and making theatre with my friends and my parents.

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But coming from a singing nation, how did you manage to stand out.

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Apart from your talent,

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who encouraged that, who brought you forward?

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Oh, gosh, it's such a long story. My mother did...

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- It's a very long show. - I know that.

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But, you know, where you start and where you get to,

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where I did start and where I am now, it's such a long gap.

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It's just a day after day after day working. And suddenly you arrive.

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You've done all these wonderful and exciting things,

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and I'm having such a fantastic time.

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I think, "Gosh, you know, Mum really was right."

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She did all marvellous things for me.

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She encouraged me, she pushed me into competitions.

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And she did all these things. And I really...

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I think I sacrificed an awful lot of my so-called growing up where,

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if I was in an exam at school, I was immediately pulled out because

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the singing teacher had reign over everything else in the school,

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because her choir came first.

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And it always brought the school up, you see, with the choir

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and the performances and things for concerts and charities

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and raising funds for, you know, some of the hospitals.

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- So you never got an education? - Not really. No.

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I think I did miss out quite a lot.

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You made a sensational debut at Covent Garden, didn't you,

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- when you were a slip of a girl? - Yes.

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Did it change it all for you, then? Did you see the lights?

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- You knew you were going to make it? - No, not at that point.

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I think when I did do my first performance

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I thought really I was the greatest, I really thought I was...

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I was flying high, I think I was on cloud ten.

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I missed cloud nine and got up to ten.

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I was really, sort of, buzzing there for a while.

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And then I... I just sort of calmed down

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and started working with my teacher

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and she sort of brought me back down to earth,

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and now I work, you know, a lot.

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Do you have singing lessons at all, Terry?

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No, I don't.

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You sing a little, though? That voice, it's so luscious.

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Oh, yes, I've had my share of success, of course.

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LAUGHTER

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Didn't you record a song or something like that?

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- Oh, yes. It wasn't... - How does it go?

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It was an old song of the Auvergne.

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- Oh, really? - Slightly longer than your offering.

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I'm sorry I cut it short for you. But I thought that's what you'd like.

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I loved it. I loved it. I was merely joshing.

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Oh, I'm sorry. Well, now I feel guilty.

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I should have done ten...

0:20:200:20:21

But, then, you wouldn't have liked it ten times longer.

0:20:210:20:24

That would have been 20 minutes long, Kiri.

0:20:240:20:28

Yeah, I mean, if you have any extra notes that you'd care to throw in

0:20:280:20:31

at this juncture, they'd still be very welcome, you know.

0:20:310:20:33

I think YOU should sing a song.

0:20:330:20:35

Hang on. Your accompanist has gone home.

0:20:350:20:37

- What? - So, there's no prospect of that.

0:20:370:20:39

We're delighted to see you. Thank you.

0:20:390:20:41

Thank you very much, Terry.

0:20:410:20:43

APPLAUSE

0:20:430:20:46

Always engaging and charming. Dame Kiri Te Kanawa.

0:20:560:20:59

My next guest, one hears about his wealth,

0:20:590:21:03

one hears about his chairmanship of football clubs...

0:21:030:21:07

But one really admires him

0:21:080:21:10

and appreciates his musical talent more than anything.

0:21:100:21:13

Very great star.

0:21:130:21:14

I'm delighted to have him on this Christmas night on my show.

0:21:140:21:17

Elton John.

0:21:170:21:18

APPLAUSE

0:21:180:21:21

MUSIC PLAYS

0:21:210:21:23

# Lipstick and lashes

0:21:400:21:42

# The traces of stardom

0:21:420:21:45

# Lit up on a billboard

0:21:450:21:47

# So everyone sees them

0:21:470:21:50

# In neon

0:21:500:21:51

# Behind the counter

0:21:550:21:57

# She stares out the window

0:21:570:22:00

# Up at the billboard

0:22:000:22:02

# That's like a reminder

0:22:020:22:05

# In neon

0:22:050:22:07

# She hates how she feels

0:22:100:22:12

# But she hangs like a mirror

0:22:120:22:15

# Maybe a stranger could walk in

0:22:150:22:18

# And see her

0:22:180:22:20

# In neon

0:22:200:22:22

# For two cents of danger

0:22:250:22:27

# She'd trust anybody

0:22:270:22:30

# She'd smoke like a gun

0:22:300:22:32

# If it meant she might wind up

0:22:320:22:34

# In neon

0:22:340:22:36

# The dreams in the light

0:22:360:22:39

# Of a promise that dies

0:22:390:22:42

# A shimmering city

0:22:420:22:45

# A glimmer of hope and a lie

0:22:450:22:48

# In neon

0:22:490:22:51

# The name's gone

0:22:510:22:52

# There's no reason why any more

0:22:520:22:56

# Trust them and wind up alone

0:22:580:23:01

# Behind a locked door

0:23:010:23:04

# In neon

0:23:120:23:14

# In neon

0:23:220:23:23

# Pictures and patterns

0:23:250:23:27

# The touches of glamour

0:23:270:23:30

# Cut into a fashion

0:23:300:23:32

# That flashes above them

0:23:320:23:35

# In neon

0:23:350:23:37

# A hot cup of coffee

0:23:400:23:42

# Held in her fingers

0:23:420:23:45

# A perfect complexion

0:23:450:23:48

# That lingers above her

0:23:480:23:50

# In neon

0:23:500:23:52

# She hates how she feels

0:23:550:23:57

# But she hangs like a mirror

0:23:570:24:00

# Maybe a stranger

0:24:000:24:02

# Could walk in and see her

0:24:020:24:05

# In neon

0:24:050:24:07

# For a shot at the title

0:24:100:24:12

# She'd slip into something

0:24:120:24:15

# She'd smoulder like ashes

0:24:150:24:17

# If it meant she might wind up

0:24:170:24:20

# In neon

0:24:200:24:21

# The dreams and the light

0:24:210:24:24

# Of a promise that dies

0:24:240:24:26

# A shimmering city

0:24:280:24:30

# A glimmer of hope and a lie

0:24:300:24:34

# In neon

0:24:350:24:36

# The name's gone

0:24:360:24:38

# There's no reason why any more

0:24:380:24:41

# Trust them and wind up alone

0:24:430:24:46

# Behind a locked door

0:24:460:24:49

# In neon

0:24:580:24:59

# In neon

0:25:070:25:09

# The dreams in the light

0:25:090:25:11

# Of a promise that dies

0:25:110:25:15

# A shimmering city

0:25:150:25:17

# A glimmer of hope and a lie

0:25:170:25:21

# In neon. #

0:25:300:25:32

APPLAUSE

0:25:340:25:37

CHEERING

0:25:390:25:43

Before we start, you are not going to take those off, are you?

0:26:010:26:04

No. They could walk on their own, by the looks of things.

0:26:040:26:07

But you can't complain about these things.

0:26:070:26:08

No. Well, you can.

0:26:080:26:10

- You're jolly welcome. - Thank you.

0:26:100:26:11

And it's actually the first time

0:26:110:26:13

- we've ever met. - Yes, it is.

0:26:130:26:14

Pleasure to see you on this Christmas.

0:26:140:26:16

How has Christmas Day been for you? Had a good time?

0:26:160:26:17

Excellent. Just traditional. Very quiet.

0:26:170:26:20

- In the bos-oom of your family? - In the bos-oom of my family, yes.

0:26:200:26:23

And the new lady wife, of course.

0:26:230:26:25

Well, I was talking about her bos-ooms to start with!

0:26:250:26:27

So, how is married life suiting you?

0:26:270:26:30

It's very nice. Nearly a year, you know.

0:26:300:26:32

We've seen each other three times.

0:26:320:26:34

But, no, we're very happy. Everything is going very, very well.

0:26:340:26:37

Yeah, me and the audience are very annoyed

0:26:370:26:39

because we were about the only people you didn't ask to the wedding.

0:26:390:26:41

We would have flown to Australia if you'd asked us, you know.

0:26:410:26:43

Well, that was the great thing about getting married in Australia.

0:26:430:26:46

Everyone you wanted to avoid couldn't get there.

0:26:460:26:49

- Not meaning... - That's very nice(!)

0:26:490:26:51

- For Christmas. - Yes.

0:26:510:26:53

Was it a whirlwind romance?

0:26:530:26:54

Cos you haven't really talked about it. We saw the wedding.

0:26:540:26:57

And then you've done this world tour and all the rest of it.

0:26:570:26:59

Was it a whirlwind romance or had you been...cogitating it for a long time?

0:26:590:27:03

I beg your... Well, I'd often done that. Um...

0:27:030:27:06

But it was... Yes, it was kind of whirlwind.

0:27:060:27:09

But I'd met her before. Renate's an engineer.

0:27:090:27:12

And I'd met her on the previous album.

0:27:120:27:14

And she was engineering on the Breaking Hearts album.

0:27:140:27:17

And there was just a chemistry between the two of us

0:27:170:27:19

and I had no doubts, and I thought,

0:27:190:27:21

"At my time of life it's about time I took the plunge."

0:27:210:27:23

And we had no serious thoughts about...

0:27:230:27:25

Obviously, we had serious thoughts

0:27:250:27:27

because getting married is a serious thing. You can't take it flippantly.

0:27:270:27:29

- She's a German lady. - Yeah.

0:27:290:27:31

Is there anything of the Teuton in her?

0:27:310:27:34

Does she have strict ideas? Does she keep you in line?

0:27:340:27:37

Yeah. I think most people around me keep me in line,

0:27:370:27:39

otherwise I'd go completely off the rails.

0:27:390:27:41

That applies to people at Watford Football Club, and my family,

0:27:410:27:44

my mother and father, the people that work for me.

0:27:440:27:46

Because sometimes in this business, you know, you think you're right

0:27:460:27:49

and you can get everything you want and you're very hot-headed,

0:27:490:27:52

and people around me just ignore me, which is the best thing to do.

0:27:520:27:54

So I slam doors and after ten minutes no-one's come,

0:27:540:27:56

and I'm going, "Where are they all?"

0:27:560:27:58

And...no, she's... I think everybody around me

0:27:580:28:00

has been pretty level-headed.

0:28:000:28:02

Because I am a monster, sometimes.

0:28:020:28:04

I may be the nice little boy next door but you should see me sometimes.

0:28:040:28:07

You used to have a very, very, um, lurid sense of dress,

0:28:070:28:11

but I see that she's quietened down...

0:28:110:28:13

I've toned down, yes. LAUGHTER

0:28:130:28:15

The Vauxhall's outside, Terry.

0:28:150:28:17

It's a sort of tame black-and-white number you have there,

0:28:170:28:20

- apart from the luminous socks. - Yes.

0:28:200:28:23

I was going to wear pink glasses

0:28:230:28:24

but I think the TV...the camera people thought it might go crazy.

0:28:240:28:27

So, no, yes, I'll never tone down, as far as that goes.

0:28:270:28:31

You dress like that at home? You don't?

0:28:310:28:32

- Yes, I do. - You don't.

0:28:320:28:34

Do you?

0:28:340:28:35

No, you don't.

0:28:370:28:38

I'm not saying what I dress around the house in!

0:28:380:28:41

This could be dangerous. Enough said.

0:28:410:28:43

You don't come down to breakfast dressed like that.

0:28:430:28:45

Oh, no, but I've got a fanfare. I play a fanfare every morning.

0:28:450:28:47

# Da da-da-da da-da-da-da... #

0:28:470:28:48

So the staff know I'm up,

0:28:480:28:50

so I come downstairs and there's my breakfast on the table.

0:28:500:28:52

And it takes me just the length of the corridor

0:28:520:28:54

to when I get to the solemn bit.

0:28:540:28:56

# Daa da-da-daa daa daa daa. #

0:28:560:28:58

And by the time I come down the stairs the bacon sandwich is ready.

0:28:580:29:01

Brilliant.

0:29:010:29:02

Do you have appropriate music for all of your functions?

0:29:020:29:04

Not really.

0:29:040:29:06

LAUGHTER

0:29:060:29:07

I've got Otis Redding music for when I go to the toilet.

0:29:070:29:11

No, not really. I listen to music all the time.

0:29:110:29:13

There's music all round the house.

0:29:130:29:15

You've been hammering away at the old Joanna now...

0:29:150:29:18

Can't you see by the size of the fingers?

0:29:180:29:20

- ..for these past many years... - Yes.

0:29:200:29:23

..since you were a slip of a lad.

0:29:230:29:25

Is it true to say that you are slowly slipping away from performance?

0:29:250:29:30

No, it's just that I'm not going to do ten-week tours again.

0:29:300:29:34

I'll maybe do two weeks, a concert here or there or whatever.

0:29:340:29:38

But I've done touring now

0:29:380:29:40

for the last four or five years solidly again.

0:29:400:29:42

I gave up for a period of three or four years.

0:29:420:29:44

And I would like really, ideally...

0:29:440:29:45

Bernie and I, we want to sit down and write a musical. Um...

0:29:450:29:48

not a rock'n'roll musical.

0:29:480:29:50

Something on a par, one hopes, or one aims for,

0:29:500:29:53

as a West Side Story, or something like a Rodgers and Hammerstein...

0:29:530:29:57

for the stage.

0:29:570:29:58

Um, and that's our next project. Where we start from, heaven knows,

0:29:580:30:01

but we've been planning that for so long

0:30:010:30:03

that we've got to start sooner or later.

0:30:030:30:05

Otherwise you tour and tour and tour

0:30:050:30:06

and every musical project that comes up

0:30:060:30:08

you put off for so long and you never get to do it.

0:30:080:30:11

When you gave up for the first time was it just that you were fed up

0:30:110:30:14

with the music business, fed up with yourself?

0:30:140:30:16

Fed up with everything. I mean...

0:30:160:30:17

Was it just too much of everything? Too much money?

0:30:170:30:19

I'd made 25 albums since 1969.

0:30:190:30:21

And in 1976 I hadn't had any time off at all. I mean, the amount...

0:30:210:30:25

When you look back and think of the amount of work I crammed in

0:30:250:30:27

and made albums, made separate singles, did all the tours,

0:30:270:30:30

and I enjoyed every single minute of it.

0:30:300:30:32

I mean, I'm not whining about it.

0:30:320:30:33

But at the end of 1976 I was just physically exhausted, stale,

0:30:330:30:36

musically stale, personally.

0:30:360:30:38

And, um, that's really the reason.

0:30:380:30:40

I knew the ego would have to say that someone else was going to take over.

0:30:400:30:44

But at that time I was so tired I thought, "Let's get on with it.

0:30:440:30:46

"Let someone else get on with it."

0:30:460:30:48

- What brought you back? - Um...

0:30:480:30:51

You couldn't leave it alone? Do you think...

0:30:510:30:54

You know, you are an extrovert on stage.

0:30:540:30:56

Surely you're going to miss that.

0:30:560:30:58

What brought me back was, I did a concert tour in 1979.

0:30:580:31:01

I also did a concert in 1977, live on BBC television, where I retired.

0:31:010:31:05

I said...

0:31:050:31:06

Because it was a conglomeration of things,

0:31:060:31:09

like huge sound systems, everything...

0:31:090:31:11

I retired because of the things like big arenas,

0:31:110:31:15

big sound systems.

0:31:150:31:16

I did one concert. I thought, "I can't go through this again."

0:31:160:31:19

And I said on TVV... TVV, TVVV...

0:31:190:31:22

TV that I was going to retire. So I did again.

0:31:220:31:24

And I didn't come back till '79 when I did a solo tour with Ray Cooper,

0:31:240:31:29

who is a wonderful percussionist. And I got my...

0:31:290:31:32

musical credibility back together for myself

0:31:320:31:35

because I had to play numbers unaccompanied,

0:31:350:31:37

sing numbers unaccompanied, more or less, sing in tune, play in tune.

0:31:370:31:41

And...

0:31:410:31:43

In '76 my musicianship was very, very stale. And very, very bad.

0:31:430:31:47

Not bad, but stale and very, very uninspired.

0:31:470:31:50

In '79, I did a tour of the whole world, just small theatres,

0:31:500:31:53

2,000-seaters.

0:31:530:31:55

For three hours Ray and I played everything from slow ballads

0:31:550:31:58

to rock'n'roll, and it was a theatrical thing.

0:31:580:32:01

And I needed to do that to prove to myself that

0:32:010:32:04

I could become a good musician again, and I really began to enjoy that.

0:32:040:32:07

So that gradually eased my way back into it. Then I started...

0:32:070:32:10

It was a gradual easing.

0:32:100:32:12

Because after six years of so much work and so much output

0:32:120:32:15

you had to run dry sooner or later.

0:32:150:32:16

Well, now you've reached a stage where you're going to retire again.

0:32:160:32:20

No. And when...

0:32:200:32:21

You're not going to be like Frank Sinatra?

0:32:210:32:23

No, no, no. I said I am not going to do ten-week tours again

0:32:230:32:26

because I am married with a family. I don't really need that.

0:32:260:32:29

I've done that for the last four and five years

0:32:290:32:31

and I've been lucky enough to have had a second chance again to do it.

0:32:310:32:34

I just think I've got more musical things in me,

0:32:340:32:37

that I that I need more time to take...

0:32:370:32:40

If you're going to write a musical,

0:32:400:32:41

that may be two or three years of your life to do that.

0:32:410:32:43

But you're not going to forget the live performances?

0:32:430:32:45

Oh, no, not at all, no. I'll always be live...

0:32:450:32:47

I mean, they'll never keep me off the stage.

0:32:470:32:49

But it's going to be in shorter doses.

0:32:490:32:52

- When you see groups like Wham!... - They're fabulous.

0:32:520:32:55

Or Duran Duran.

0:32:550:32:57

They're great. And I like Boy George. And I think...

0:32:570:33:00

I think it's very unfair to pick on them because...

0:33:000:33:03

Go and see them first and then make up your mind.

0:33:030:33:06

And I've met these bands and they've got so much energy

0:33:060:33:08

they make you feel...exhausted,

0:33:080:33:10

because that's how Bernie and I used to be at 21 years of age,

0:33:100:33:13

seeing Wham!, seeing George,

0:33:130:33:15

seeing those bands, Nik Kershaw and people like that. Fabulous.

0:33:150:33:18

Good luck to them.

0:33:180:33:19

They're making great music, they're not doing anybody any harm.

0:33:190:33:21

And I think, "Give them a chance," you know. They're great.

0:33:210:33:23

I really enjoy their music.

0:33:230:33:25

And I think it's very silly just to dismiss things.

0:33:250:33:27

But you looking at them, do they make you feel your age?

0:33:270:33:31

I do feel like a grandfather when I walk into the dressing room.

0:33:310:33:34

You know, it's like... It's kind of like meeting the Queen...

0:33:340:33:37

Don't say anything!

0:33:370:33:38

Um, but it's... It's kind of like, what do you say?

0:33:380:33:41

There is an age gap. One feels an age gap.

0:33:410:33:43

But they've always made me feel very welcome.

0:33:430:33:45

And I'm basically a shy person anyway. And I do feel a difference.

0:33:450:33:49

But some of the music they're making is tremendous.

0:33:490:33:51

And they've always been very, very nice to me.

0:33:510:33:53

Do you feel that your flamboyance has diminished?

0:33:530:33:57

Do you feel that you've changed at all?

0:33:570:33:58

I mean, marriage and settling down obviously is bound to change...

0:33:580:34:01

I'm getting a bit more Hinge and Bracket, really, I suppose,

0:34:010:34:04

in that direction. Er...

0:34:040:34:06

I'll always be, sort of, flamboyant in a certain way.

0:34:060:34:10

I don't want to lose that part of me. But, yes, I've toned down.

0:34:100:34:13

I've had to tone down for my football club, for example.

0:34:130:34:16

There's no way I could turn up to Watford in this suit,

0:34:160:34:18

otherwise the manager would fire me!

0:34:180:34:20

Absolutely true. And I wouldn't dream of it.

0:34:200:34:23

But, you know, it's good enough for your programme!

0:34:230:34:27

It might lead to a certain amount of racy talk.

0:34:270:34:29

I was going to ask, because I'm sure there are lots of people

0:34:290:34:32

who are trying to get their children to learn to play the piano...

0:34:320:34:35

Yes.

0:34:350:34:36

..and the children might say, "There's no need for me to learn.

0:34:360:34:39

"Look at Elton John. He just bangs it out there."

0:34:390:34:41

Did you actually have a formal training?

0:34:410:34:43

Thank you!

0:34:430:34:45

In your own spontaneous way, of course.

0:34:450:34:48

I play by ear. My grandmother and my mother brought me up,

0:34:480:34:51

because my father was away in the air force.

0:34:510:34:53

My grandmother played slightly and my mother's sister played.

0:34:530:34:57

And so I started playing by ear when I was about three or four.

0:34:570:35:00

And I picked things up very quickly.

0:35:000:35:02

I think if you've a gift for things, you do pick it up.

0:35:020:35:04

And then my parents insisted that I went to musical education,

0:35:040:35:07

which I didn't really want to do.

0:35:070:35:09

And I qualified for the Royal Academy of Music as a day student

0:35:090:35:13

on Saturdays. between the ages of 11 to 15.

0:35:130:35:16

And I got through all my exams.

0:35:160:35:18

And I didn't really appreciate it much at the time

0:35:180:35:20

because I'd rather have been home playing football

0:35:200:35:21

or something like that. But on recollection,

0:35:210:35:24

and actually thinking about it again, it taught me an awful lot.

0:35:240:35:27

I'm very grateful that they did send me there

0:35:270:35:30

because it did teach me a lot.

0:35:300:35:31

And if you have a gift for something, you can only improve your technique

0:35:310:35:34

by going to someone who can tell you about it.

0:35:340:35:36

So you would say to youngsters, "Keep up the piano lessons"?

0:35:360:35:39

If they're forced into doing it and they've got no talent whatsoever,

0:35:390:35:41

it's a waste of time. But if someone has got a talent for something

0:35:410:35:44

and they play by ear, then it is a good idea to go and have instruction

0:35:440:35:47

and listen to someone else and learn. Yes, it is.

0:35:470:35:50

You can always learn about something.

0:35:500:35:52

So what are you going to do with the rest of Christmas Day?

0:35:520:35:54

You're going to go home and...? Did you have...

0:35:540:35:57

Do you have music playing during the turkey or suitable music?

0:35:570:36:00

What was... What would be suitable turkey music?

0:36:000:36:03

Um...

0:36:030:36:04

Freddie Starr hasn't made an album, has he? Um...

0:36:050:36:08

LAUGHTER

0:36:080:36:10

No, sorry. Um, I don't know.

0:36:110:36:13

We usually had the Queen's Speech on.

0:36:130:36:15

- Yeah. - Ha!

0:36:150:36:17

- That's very loyal. - No, I'm very, very...

0:36:170:36:20

Land of Hope and Glory, and Elgar, the Enigma Variations.

0:36:200:36:23

I'm terrible with sad music.

0:36:230:36:25

If you show me the Cup Final, it's a good job the mascara didn't run

0:36:250:36:27

because...Abide With Me is one of the most fabulous things in the world.

0:36:270:36:30

And sad music always make me cry.

0:36:300:36:33

- We wish you well... - Thank you.

0:36:330:36:35

..with all that you continue to do. I hope the musical does happen.

0:36:350:36:38

Yes, we're going to put our heads together.

0:36:380:36:40

And that will eventually emerge, good or bad. Good, I hope.

0:36:400:36:43

Well, happy Christmas with what remains of it.

0:36:430:36:45

Thank you. And happy Christmas to everybody.

0:36:450:36:46

APPLAUSE

0:36:460:36:48

Elton John.

0:37:010:37:02

Finally, a young lady who came across here last year

0:37:030:37:07

and was one of our most charming guests.

0:37:070:37:09

I thought we got on like a house on fire.

0:37:090:37:11

But subsequently people thought I was a little edgy.

0:37:110:37:14

I've always been a great fan of old Pammy.

0:37:160:37:19

Anyway, she's insisted on a rematch.

0:37:200:37:24

And we've managed, by the wonders of science,

0:37:240:37:26

to do a linkup with Los Angeles.

0:37:260:37:28

So here she is again, Victoria Principal.

0:37:280:37:31

APPLAUSE

0:37:310:37:34

They seem to quite like you here, Victoria, have you noticed that?

0:37:480:37:52

Oh, I'm glad THEY do.

0:37:520:37:54

LAUGHTER

0:37:540:37:56

What, are you not universally popular, then?

0:37:560:37:59

Where do they not like you?

0:37:590:38:01

Oh, no, I was thinking of you, Terry.

0:38:010:38:02

Oh. LAUGHTER

0:38:020:38:05

As long as you just keep thinking about me

0:38:050:38:07

we're going to get on like a house on fire.

0:38:070:38:09

You're dressed in red. In red for Christmas night.

0:38:090:38:12

How very nice of you.

0:38:120:38:14

I'm working with a handicap because I can't see the faces you're making.

0:38:140:38:18

- Um... - Look, please,

0:38:180:38:20

the studio audience will bear me out here.

0:38:200:38:23

I'm all sweetness and light and kindness.

0:38:230:38:25

I'm not pulling faces behind your back or in front of...

0:38:250:38:27

Actually, I'm looking up to you.

0:38:270:38:29

You're on a huge screen in front of me.

0:38:290:38:31

I'm virtually on my knees in front of you here.

0:38:310:38:34

Do you know what they've done here?

0:38:340:38:36

They've hung up a picture from Playgirl.

0:38:370:38:40

LAUGHTER

0:38:400:38:42

Oh, no, that can't be me. I failed the audition!

0:38:420:38:45

LAUGHTER

0:38:450:38:47

Now, Dallas brought you big stardom.

0:38:490:38:51

And before that you did a couple of movies.

0:38:510:38:53

But why didn't your film career catch on?

0:38:530:38:56

Why did we have to wait for the old telly to bring you to stardom?

0:38:560:39:00

Well, I quit acting. I did about five motion pictures.

0:39:000:39:05

And then I wasn't... I wasn't happy with my own life,

0:39:050:39:09

so I quit acting altogether to go into another business.

0:39:090:39:12

And what dragged you from the acting, then? Was it the part of Pammy?

0:39:120:39:17

Well, no, I'd returned to acting but for not a very long period

0:39:180:39:22

when I read the part. And I loved it, and so I pursued it.

0:39:220:39:26

You don't regret it?

0:39:260:39:28

Oh, God, no, not at all.

0:39:280:39:30

No, it's been a wonderful, wonderful seven years.

0:39:300:39:34

In fact, the last time I did see you,

0:39:340:39:36

you asked me about some of the changes

0:39:360:39:38

it had brought about in my life, and they were all positive.

0:39:380:39:41

These days... I mean, I've been lucky enough

0:39:410:39:43

to have Rock Hudson on the show this year.

0:39:430:39:45

And he didn't breathe a word about it

0:39:450:39:47

but he sneaked into a soap opera as soon as he got back to America.

0:39:470:39:51

All the big Hollywood names seem to want to get into the soap operas now,

0:39:510:39:55

or into Dallas or...

0:39:550:39:57

..Dysentery.

0:39:580:40:00

LAUGHTER

0:40:000:40:01

Why do you think that is?

0:40:030:40:04

Well, I'm not sure, but it's funny you'd bring that up,

0:40:040:40:08

wanted to get on Dallas, because actually I've been asked

0:40:080:40:11

to offer you a part on the show by my producer.

0:40:110:40:15

Great. We'd like you to...

0:40:150:40:16

We'd like you to come on and play the remains of Mark Grayson.

0:40:160:40:21

LAUGHTER

0:40:210:40:23

And don't think I won't take up the offer either!

0:40:290:40:33

LAUGHTER

0:40:330:40:34

He gets paid more as a corpse than I get paid live, I can tell you!

0:40:340:40:39

Well, you'll have to do it in bits and pieces!

0:40:390:40:43

Yes, he was spread all over the Gulf of Mexico, wasn't he?

0:40:430:40:46

SHE LAUGHS

0:40:460:40:47

Can you swim?

0:40:470:40:49

LAUGHTER

0:40:490:40:50

Well, little bits of me, yes.

0:40:500:40:52

LAUGHTER

0:40:520:40:55

You were saying...

0:40:550:40:57

You were saying last time...

0:40:570:40:58

LAUGHTER

0:40:580:41:00

I have to say... I have to say, Victoria,

0:41:030:41:06

you obviously like me better from a distance.

0:41:060:41:08

LAUGHTER

0:41:080:41:11

You were saying last time that Dallas was one big happy family.

0:41:110:41:15

- Now... - Yes, I was, wasn't I?

0:41:150:41:17

If that's the case, why is the Poisoned Dwarf leaving?

0:41:170:41:20

LAUGHTER

0:41:200:41:22

Well, you didn't help.

0:41:260:41:28

LAUGHTER

0:41:280:41:31

I get the rap for everything here!

0:41:310:41:33

And Bobby. And Bobby. You've given him the elbow, too.

0:41:350:41:38

Isn't Patrick Duffy supposed to be leaving?

0:41:380:41:40

No.

0:41:400:41:42

No, actually, Patrick has chosen to leave himself.

0:41:420:41:44

He's going to go on to something else, I presume.

0:41:440:41:48

In sunglasses?

0:41:480:41:50

LAUGHTER

0:41:500:41:51

Listen, can you...

0:41:530:41:55

Can you answer me, when poor old Bobby got shot -

0:41:550:41:58

cos we're a little bit behind you -

0:41:580:42:00

when he got shot, first of all he got shot in the back

0:42:000:42:03

and it immediately affected his eyesight.

0:42:030:42:06

LAUGHTER

0:42:060:42:07

Then every time...

0:42:090:42:11

Every time you went to visit him,

0:42:110:42:13

poor little fellow sitting there either in a wheelchair

0:42:130:42:16

or a hospital bed, you'd stay about ten seconds and then say,

0:42:160:42:19

AMERICAN ACCENT: "Sorry, Bobby, you need your rest, I gotta leave now."

0:42:190:42:23

LAUGHTER

0:42:230:42:25

He never saw anybody for longer than ten seconds. Why was that?

0:42:250:42:29

Oh, it's the thought that counts.

0:42:310:42:33

LAUGHTER

0:42:330:42:35

What about the little chap? We see too little of him now, don't we?

0:42:360:42:39

He's running around now, isn't he?

0:42:390:42:42

NOW you feel sorry for him! Um...

0:42:420:42:45

That's the "ugly baby" you asked me about before.

0:42:470:42:49

LAUGHTER

0:42:490:42:51

Yes.

0:42:510:42:52

The relative of the director or the producer.

0:42:520:42:55

Well, he's grown into his looks now.

0:42:570:43:00

He's a bit...

0:43:000:43:02

He has a bit more personality.

0:43:020:43:04

Actually, he's a lovely child and he's still on the show.

0:43:040:43:06

You're not told what's going to happen in the plot, are you?

0:43:060:43:10

They keep it from you, don't they?

0:43:100:43:12

I'm told to a certain degree what is going to happen to me as Pam,

0:43:120:43:16

so I know which way my character is going,

0:43:160:43:18

and that way I can discuss whether I like it or not.

0:43:180:43:21

Um, but I don't know who is coming on the show as...

0:43:210:43:24

as a guest-starring appearance or a continuous role

0:43:240:43:28

until shortly beforehand.

0:43:280:43:29

We notice, or at least I notice

0:43:290:43:31

and the people who write in to me about the show notice,

0:43:310:43:35

that there seems to be a preponderance of bathing suits.

0:43:350:43:39

At least, the ones of Dallas we're looking...

0:43:390:43:41

And your bathing suits have received a great deal of acclaim.

0:43:410:43:45

Well, it's been a long, hot summer.

0:43:470:43:49

LAUGHTER

0:43:490:43:51

You're making it a long, hot winter over here for us.

0:43:510:43:54

LAUGHTER

0:43:540:43:56

I was pleased to see you dive into the pool, though.

0:43:560:43:59

You're actually swimming in the old suits, proving that they work?

0:43:590:44:02

LAUGHTER

0:44:020:44:04

I'm not touching that, Terry!

0:44:080:44:11

I have a lot of problems with people not wanting to touch

0:44:110:44:14

things on this show!

0:44:140:44:15

There was a big press feature recently over here

0:44:150:44:18

about a new designer being brought in to make the Dallas ladies

0:44:180:44:22

look more glamorous.

0:44:220:44:24

I mean, aren't you glamorous enough?

0:44:240:44:26

He was brought in to make us look taller.

0:44:270:44:29

Look taller?

0:44:290:44:31

Mind you, you have put on height. You do...

0:44:310:44:34

You're certainly bigger than I remember you.

0:44:340:44:38

But you are about six foot tall and three feet wide here!

0:44:380:44:43

No...

0:44:430:44:45

We do have a new designer. Bill Travilla.

0:44:450:44:50

And he's designing a lot of the clothing on the show.

0:44:500:44:54

I'm wearing clothing that he, in fact, has not designed.

0:44:540:44:57

Most of my clothing is Italian.

0:44:570:45:00

As is half of me.

0:45:010:45:03

Is that the half that's laughing at that mucky photograph?

0:45:050:45:08

SHE LAUGHS

0:45:090:45:10

Delayed laughter we have on the show.

0:45:120:45:15

SHE LAUGHS

0:45:170:45:18

Since we...

0:45:180:45:20

LAUGHTER

0:45:200:45:21

It seems to be getting better, whatever you're looking at.

0:45:230:45:25

It keeps unfolding.

0:45:280:45:30

LAUGHTER

0:45:300:45:33

Some fellows... Some fellows have all the luck!

0:45:350:45:38

LAUGHTER

0:45:380:45:41

Since... Since we talked to you about your health and beauty book which,

0:45:430:45:47

do you remember, you turned very nasty about...

0:45:470:45:50

..all the Hollywood ladies seem to be getting in on the act,

0:45:520:45:55

with Sophia Loren and Raquel Welch all producing books.

0:45:550:45:57

How do you rate the competition?

0:45:570:45:59

Well, just like you, I haven't read any of them.

0:45:590:46:03

LAUGHTER

0:46:030:46:06

APPLAUSE

0:46:060:46:08

Just because you didn't give me a free copy of yours

0:46:120:46:15

doesn't mean that Sophia and Raquel didn't give me a free copy of theirs.

0:46:150:46:20

In fact - you don't know this, but I can't see you either -

0:46:200:46:22

I have a picture of Raquel Welch in front of me here.

0:46:220:46:25

LAUGHTER

0:46:250:46:27

Tell me, it's Christmas Day. What have you had for dinner?

0:46:280:46:31

LAUGHTER

0:46:310:46:34

A Danish. It's the morning here.

0:46:360:46:40

A Danish, eh? Was he up to your satisfaction?

0:46:420:46:44

LAUGHTER

0:46:440:46:47

APPLAUSE

0:46:470:46:49

A Danish, you should know, is a tart.

0:46:540:46:56

LAUGHTER

0:46:560:46:59

- What am I saying? - I don't know.

0:46:590:47:01

No...

0:47:020:47:04

You know, you're a lot more fun this way.

0:47:040:47:06

LAUGHTER

0:47:060:47:07

What do you mean, unfolding in front of you?

0:47:070:47:10

Well, I must say, you are terrific fun.

0:47:130:47:15

I was just going to ask you, since it is the morning there,

0:47:150:47:17

Christmas morning, what are you planning?

0:47:170:47:20

Do you have to watch your diet on Christmas Day as well?

0:47:200:47:22

Will you have the turkey with the stuffing

0:47:220:47:24

and the Brussels sprouts and the chestnuts and all that stuff?

0:47:240:47:29

Yes.

0:47:290:47:30

LAUGHTER

0:47:300:47:32

Did you ever ask questions that were longer than answers?

0:47:320:47:34

Wait a minute, they're giving me a new picture here.

0:47:370:47:40

Oh. Let's hope it's one we can see. You wouldn't care...

0:47:400:47:44

Would you care to lift up the picture that they're showing you?

0:47:440:47:47

- Does it remind you... - I can show you one page of it.

0:47:480:47:51

Oh, good.

0:47:510:47:52

Will it remind me of anything?

0:47:520:47:54

LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE

0:47:550:47:58

HE LAUGHS

0:47:580:48:00

- Yes. - I think you're lovely in blue.

0:48:020:48:05

LAUGHTER

0:48:050:48:06

I...

0:48:070:48:09

It seemed...seemed a very snug fit.

0:48:090:48:12

LAUGHTER

0:48:120:48:14

Our sand is a bit different.

0:48:150:48:17

LAUGHTER

0:48:170:48:19

Victoria Principal, thank you for joining us on the show.

0:48:250:48:28

We wish you a very happy Christmas and you are the sunny, cheery person

0:48:280:48:31

that I saw the last time you were here.

0:48:310:48:33

- It's lovely to see you again. - Thank you.

0:48:330:48:35

And merry Christmas to all of you.

0:48:350:48:37

APPLAUSE

0:48:370:48:41

What is this strange, unearthly power I have over women?

0:48:480:48:52

That's the ever engaging and extremely giggly Victoria Principal.

0:48:520:48:56

I've enjoyed it immensely. I hope you've enjoyed the programme.

0:48:560:49:00

I hope that the rest of your Christmas will go well.

0:49:000:49:02

My thanks to Freddie Starr, Kiri Te Kanawa and Elton John.

0:49:020:49:06

Have a lovely Boxing Day. Have a very happy New Year.

0:49:060:49:09

And I'll see you on BBC One in the New Year. Thank you. Bye-bye.

0:49:090:49:13

APPLAUSE

0:49:130:49:16

First transmitted in 1984. Terry Wogan's Christmas Day guests include comedian Freddie Starr, Kiri Te Kanawa talking about her singing career and Maori background, and Elton John making his first appearance on the show. Victoria Principal appears in a feisty and hugely entertaining satellite interview, with Wogan gently mocking her television series Dallas, and Principal teasing Wogan at every opportunity, frequently reducing herself to tears of laughter in the process.


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