Pennod 4 Y Ditectif
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-Subtitles | 0:00:00 | 0:00:00 | |
-Subtitles - -Subtitles | 0:00:00 | 0:00:02 | |
-Secrets... | 0:00:07 | 0:00:10 | |
-..lies... | 0:00:10 | 0:00:12 | |
-..deceit... | 0:00:12 | 0:00:14 | |
-..violence. | 0:00:15 | 0:00:17 | |
-Every criminal case is a distinct -challenge for the detective. | 0:00:17 | 0:00:21 | |
-To discover the truth, -they need patience and curiosity. | 0:00:24 | 0:00:29 | |
-Tonight, -I'm following North Wales Police... | 0:00:40 | 0:00:43 | |
-..as they hunt for a Polish man... | 0:00:44 | 0:00:46 | |
-..who is suspected of murdering -a woman near Wrexham. | 0:00:46 | 0:00:50 | |
-When you looked into his eyes, -they were cold and unfeeling. | 0:00:53 | 0:00:58 | |
-For a whole year, there was -no sign of Ermatati Rodgers. | 0:00:59 | 0:01:02 | |
-Without a body, proving murder -would be a challenge. | 0:01:02 | 0:01:06 | |
-He didn't want to help us at all. -It was very frustrating. | 0:01:07 | 0:01:10 | |
-Saturday, 5 January, 2008. | 0:01:34 | 0:01:37 | |
-That was when Wrexham Police got -the call that a 41-year-old woman... | 0:01:39 | 0:01:44 | |
-..from the Gwersyllt area -was missing. | 0:01:44 | 0:01:47 | |
-Police officers from Wrexham -went door to door... | 0:01:50 | 0:01:52 | |
-..asking neighbours if they'd seen -her, but no-one had. | 0:01:53 | 0:01:56 | |
-Later, they went into her house... | 0:01:56 | 0:02:00 | |
-..and found very little -out of place... | 0:02:00 | 0:02:04 | |
-..apart from food on the stove -that was still cooking. | 0:02:04 | 0:02:09 | |
-Originally from Indonesia... | 0:02:15 | 0:02:17 | |
-..Ermatati Rodgers had moved to -Wales about ten years previously. | 0:02:17 | 0:02:21 | |
-She'd separated from her husband... | 0:02:21 | 0:02:24 | |
-..and lived alone in a flat -on the Bryn Awel estate. | 0:02:24 | 0:02:28 | |
-She enjoyed life, she enjoyed her -food and she had friends. | 0:02:34 | 0:02:40 | |
-She enjoyed socialising. | 0:02:40 | 0:02:42 | |
-Her disappearance became more -suspicious... | 0:02:45 | 0:02:48 | |
-..when police found her coat, her -purse and her passport in her flat. | 0:02:48 | 0:02:53 | |
-They also found a receipt... | 0:02:57 | 0:03:00 | |
-..showing that Tati had been -shopping the night before. | 0:03:00 | 0:03:04 | |
-She appeared on the shop's -CCTV footage. | 0:03:04 | 0:03:06 | |
-They also discovered -a small red diary. | 0:03:13 | 0:03:17 | |
-In this book, she kept names -and telephone numbers. | 0:03:17 | 0:03:21 | |
-Her friends, we thought. | 0:03:21 | 0:03:24 | |
-By phoning people on the list... | 0:03:26 | 0:03:28 | |
-..detectives discovered that the -last person to see Tati alive... | 0:03:28 | 0:03:32 | |
-..was a man named Lukasz Reszpondek. | 0:03:33 | 0:03:35 | |
-Lukasz Reszpondek was from Poland... | 0:03:39 | 0:03:42 | |
-..and he had a wife and two children -living here in Rhostyllen. | 0:03:42 | 0:03:46 | |
-He worked at the cheese factory -near Wrexham... | 0:03:46 | 0:03:50 | |
-..and there, during the summer -of 2004, he met Tati Rodgers. | 0:03:50 | 0:03:54 | |
-Detectives went to his home on -Trinity Street to question him. | 0:03:56 | 0:04:00 | |
-He willingly handed over his camera -and his laptop to be examined. | 0:04:01 | 0:04:05 | |
-He was very cool that day. -He was very happy to talk to us. | 0:04:08 | 0:04:13 | |
-He came out with all kinds -of stories about Tati. | 0:04:13 | 0:04:16 | |
-According to Reszpondek, he'd gone -to Tati's flat on the Friday... | 0:04:18 | 0:04:23 | |
-..to give her -a late Christmas present. | 0:04:23 | 0:04:26 | |
-Reszpondek said that he'd given her -a lift to the bus stop on Mold Road. | 0:04:28 | 0:04:33 | |
-But there was no CCTV evidence -to show where Tati went next. | 0:04:33 | 0:04:38 | |
-Detectives began to doubt his story. | 0:04:40 | 0:04:42 | |
-They asked him to come to the police -station in Wrexham. | 0:04:42 | 0:04:46 | |
-It was this detective -who was responsible... | 0:04:49 | 0:04:52 | |
-..for planning and supervising -the interview. | 0:04:52 | 0:04:55 | |
-A little bit of psychology -and tactics come into it... | 0:04:56 | 0:04:59 | |
-..in terms of how much we tell them -about what we know. | 0:04:59 | 0:05:03 | |
-We always keep a little bit back... | 0:05:03 | 0:05:05 | |
-..because if we tell them everything -we know, they will lie. | 0:05:05 | 0:05:09 | |
-In cases like this, the people -we deal with usually tell lies. | 0:05:10 | 0:05:15 | |
-Lukasz Reszpondek had plenty -to say... | 0:05:15 | 0:05:18 | |
-..and answered all the police -questions. | 0:05:18 | 0:05:21 | |
-It was very obvious to me... | 0:05:23 | 0:05:26 | |
-..that some of what he said -in that interview didn't make sense. | 0:05:26 | 0:05:31 | |
-At the end of the interview... | 0:05:31 | 0:05:34 | |
-..I advised that we change his -status from witness to suspect. | 0:05:34 | 0:05:40 | |
-The police managed -to retrieve photos... | 0:05:47 | 0:05:49 | |
-..that Reszpondek had deleted -from his camera. | 0:05:49 | 0:05:52 | |
-Sexual photos of Tati. | 0:05:53 | 0:05:54 | |
-Despite this, he denied that -they were in a relationship. | 0:05:55 | 0:05:59 | |
-But, the examination -of Reszpondek's laptop... | 0:05:59 | 0:06:02 | |
-..proved to be a turning point -in the investigation. | 0:06:02 | 0:06:06 | |
-When they examined his laptop... | 0:06:09 | 0:06:11 | |
-..police discovered that he'd been -researching the web in Polish... | 0:06:11 | 0:06:15 | |
-..about how the human body -decomposes. | 0:06:15 | 0:06:18 | |
-He'd also been searching -for information... | 0:06:18 | 0:06:21 | |
-..about creatures that live -on dead bodies. | 0:06:21 | 0:06:24 | |
-This was something -that astounded us all. | 0:06:25 | 0:06:30 | |
-To think that he'd been searching -for these terms on his computer. | 0:06:30 | 0:06:34 | |
-The team were now confident that -they were investigating a murder. | 0:06:36 | 0:06:40 | |
-But, without a body, -they'd need more evidence. | 0:06:46 | 0:06:50 | |
-We had to examine Lukasz -Reszpondek's bank details... | 0:06:53 | 0:06:57 | |
-..and look into where he'd been -spending his money. | 0:06:57 | 0:07:02 | |
-One of the places he'd used -his bank card... | 0:07:02 | 0:07:06 | |
-..was at a large DIY shop -in Wrexham. | 0:07:07 | 0:07:11 | |
-Among the items he bought -was a spade, rope... | 0:07:13 | 0:07:18 | |
-..plastic sheeting -and things like that. | 0:07:18 | 0:07:21 | |
-Some people have called that -a body disposal kit. | 0:07:22 | 0:07:25 | |
-They decided to arrest him. | 0:07:27 | 0:07:29 | |
-But when they searched his house, -the team faced another puzzle. | 0:07:29 | 0:07:33 | |
-At the house, -they found the spade, rope... | 0:07:34 | 0:07:40 | |
-..and all the items he'd bought -from the DIY shop. | 0:07:40 | 0:07:45 | |
-None of them had been used. | 0:07:45 | 0:07:49 | |
-But then, they noticed that he'd -withdrawn 200 cash from his bank. | 0:07:51 | 0:07:55 | |
-So the detectives went back to -Wickes to look again at the CCTV. | 0:07:56 | 0:08:01 | |
-They saw that -he'd gone back there... | 0:08:03 | 0:08:05 | |
-..the day after detectives had -questioned him for the first time. | 0:08:05 | 0:08:10 | |
-He'd bought a second set of the same -items including the spade and rope. | 0:08:10 | 0:08:14 | |
-This time he paid in cash. | 0:08:14 | 0:08:16 | |
-Police suspected that he'd got -rid of the first set... | 0:08:16 | 0:08:20 | |
-..after burying Tati's body -and bought the second set... | 0:08:20 | 0:08:23 | |
-..in an attempt to deceive -detectives. | 0:08:24 | 0:08:27 | |
-They needed to question him again. | 0:08:31 | 0:08:33 | |
-Lukasz Reszpondek asked -for a Polish translator. | 0:08:33 | 0:08:37 | |
-You were arrested earlier today -on suspicion of murder. | 0:08:41 | 0:08:46 | |
-SPEAKS POLISH | 0:08:46 | 0:08:47 | |
-No comment. | 0:08:54 | 0:08:56 | |
-Now, he refused to cooperate -or answer any questions. | 0:08:57 | 0:09:02 | |
-Can you confirm to me -that you are Polish? | 0:09:03 | 0:09:06 | |
-SPEAKS POLISH | 0:09:06 | 0:09:08 | |
-No comment. | 0:09:09 | 0:09:11 | |
-When you looked into his eyes, -they were cold and unfeeling. | 0:09:13 | 0:09:19 | |
-That's what I've found, over the -years, in dealing with killers. | 0:09:19 | 0:09:23 | |
-Sometimes the answer -is in their eyes. | 0:09:23 | 0:09:26 | |
-But there was insufficient evidence -to charge him. | 0:09:27 | 0:09:31 | |
-After three days, -they had to release him on bail. | 0:09:31 | 0:09:34 | |
-He didn't want to help us at all. -It was very frustrating. | 0:09:34 | 0:09:38 | |
-Six months after Tati's -disappearance... | 0:09:46 | 0:09:49 | |
-..the police were no nearer -to solving the mystery. | 0:09:49 | 0:09:53 | |
-The man suspected of killing her was -sending the police round in circles. | 0:09:54 | 0:10:00 | |
-We knew that we were very close -to finding Tati's body. | 0:10:00 | 0:10:05 | |
-That's what kept us going. | 0:10:05 | 0:10:09 | |
-But, without a body, it was very -difficult to prove it was murder. | 0:10:12 | 0:10:16 | |
-The hunt was still on -for the detectives. | 0:10:21 | 0:10:24 | |
-. | 0:10:24 | 0:10:25 | |
-Subtitles | 0:10:29 | 0:10:29 | |
-Subtitles - -Subtitles | 0:10:29 | 0:10:31 | |
-Six months after Tati Rodgers -disappeared in Wrexham in 2008... | 0:10:37 | 0:10:41 | |
-..police suspected that this Polish -man had murdered her. | 0:10:42 | 0:10:48 | |
-But there was no sign of her body. | 0:10:48 | 0:10:50 | |
-So, they put together an undercover -team to watch Lukasz Reszpondek. | 0:10:55 | 0:11:00 | |
-Twenty-four hours a day. | 0:11:00 | 0:11:02 | |
-It was very obvious that -Lukasz Reszpondek... | 0:11:05 | 0:11:09 | |
-..very often drove through the lanes -around Erddig. | 0:11:09 | 0:11:13 | |
-We began to wonder -whether Tati Rodgers' body... | 0:11:14 | 0:11:19 | |
-..was in one of the fields -around Erddig. | 0:11:19 | 0:11:22 | |
-Erddig is only a few minutes away -from Reszpondek's house. | 0:11:29 | 0:11:33 | |
-It extends across 1,200 acres. | 0:11:33 | 0:11:36 | |
-Police placed nine secret cameras -along the country lanes... | 0:11:39 | 0:11:43 | |
-..to try and find out where he went. | 0:11:43 | 0:11:46 | |
-Because it's so quiet here... | 0:11:49 | 0:11:52 | |
-..he'd notice if police -came looking for him... | 0:11:52 | 0:11:56 | |
-..so it was easier -to put cameras in the hedges. | 0:11:56 | 0:11:59 | |
-But the cameras did not lead them -to the body. | 0:12:01 | 0:12:04 | |
-In March 2009, the police decided -to stage a stunt. | 0:12:12 | 0:12:17 | |
-Fourteen months after Tati's -disappearance... | 0:12:18 | 0:12:21 | |
-..they announced to the media... | 0:12:22 | 0:12:24 | |
-..that they were going to begin -digging at Erddig for her body. | 0:12:24 | 0:12:27 | |
-I can't confirm exactly -where we are at the moment... | 0:12:28 | 0:12:31 | |
-..but I can say that we're on the -outskirts of Wrexham near Erddig. | 0:12:31 | 0:12:35 | |
-Police officers have been digging -here all day. | 0:12:35 | 0:12:38 | |
-There are forensic experts here... | 0:12:38 | 0:12:41 | |
-..and specialist dogs are going -to be examining the land. | 0:12:41 | 0:12:44 | |
-Police were offering a financial -reward for information. | 0:12:44 | 0:12:48 | |
-I would encourage anyone -who has any information... | 0:12:49 | 0:12:53 | |
-..to come forward and talk to us. | 0:12:53 | 0:12:56 | |
-I should also say that there is -a reward of 100,000... | 0:12:56 | 0:12:59 | |
-..for anyone who has information. | 0:12:59 | 0:13:01 | |
-It was now the detectives' turn -to trick Reszpondek... | 0:13:03 | 0:13:06 | |
-..in the hope that -he would return to the body. | 0:13:06 | 0:13:09 | |
-There was a forensic team -in the area where we are today... | 0:13:11 | 0:13:16 | |
-..to try and provoke a reaction -from Lukasz Reszpondek. | 0:13:16 | 0:13:19 | |
-And that's what happened. | 0:13:20 | 0:13:22 | |
-Reszpondek took the bait -and now he was obviously agitated. | 0:13:28 | 0:13:33 | |
-Reszpondek went out to buy -camouflage clothing... | 0:13:35 | 0:13:38 | |
-..and he came to the top of the hill -here with his binoculars. | 0:13:38 | 0:13:42 | |
-He watched the police -examining the fields. | 0:13:42 | 0:13:45 | |
-But he didn't know that the police -were watching him, watching them. | 0:13:45 | 0:13:50 | |
-In the days that followed... | 0:13:53 | 0:13:55 | |
-..Reszpondek climbed to the top of -Bersham slag heap thirteen times. | 0:13:55 | 0:14:00 | |
-He spent up to eight hours a day -on top of the hill, watching. | 0:14:00 | 0:14:04 | |
-But, over time, as the police -continued digging for evidence... | 0:14:05 | 0:14:09 | |
-..Reszpondek lost interest. | 0:14:09 | 0:14:11 | |
-The detectives now believed that... | 0:14:18 | 0:14:20 | |
-..they were searching -in the wrong place. | 0:14:20 | 0:14:23 | |
-Their next plan was to move -the search. | 0:14:23 | 0:14:26 | |
-We decided to start digging in -a different part of the fields. | 0:14:28 | 0:14:34 | |
-So that's what happened, -and Reszpondek 'responded'. | 0:14:35 | 0:14:40 | |
-Late that night, Reszpondek left his -house carrying a spade. | 0:14:54 | 0:14:58 | |
-He drove in the direction of Erddig. | 0:14:58 | 0:15:01 | |
-But, as he left his house... | 0:15:03 | 0:15:04 | |
-..undercover police were watching -his movements carefully. | 0:15:05 | 0:15:09 | |
-He parked his car -and walked across the fields. | 0:15:17 | 0:15:20 | |
-The police suspected that he was -going to try and move Tati's body. | 0:15:21 | 0:15:25 | |
-Wearing his camouflage clothing, he -was caught on the secret cameras... | 0:15:27 | 0:15:31 | |
-..concealed in the hedgerows. | 0:15:31 | 0:15:33 | |
-Then, he disappeared -into the darkness... | 0:15:34 | 0:15:37 | |
-..out of the sight of the police -and the cameras. | 0:15:37 | 0:15:41 | |
-They didn't see him for three hours. | 0:15:41 | 0:15:45 | |
-When he emerged from the fields, -there was no sign of the body. | 0:15:46 | 0:15:50 | |
-The followed him back to his house. | 0:15:55 | 0:15:57 | |
-But, in the early hours of the -morning, he left home again. | 0:15:58 | 0:16:02 | |
-At three in the morning, Reszpondek -came here to Wrexham Police station. | 0:16:09 | 0:16:14 | |
-He told them he could show them -the location of Tati's body. | 0:16:14 | 0:16:18 | |
-He said that she'd dropped dead -in his flat in January 2008... | 0:16:18 | 0:16:23 | |
-..and that, in a panic, -he'd buried her. | 0:16:23 | 0:16:25 | |
-Lukasz Reszpondek was arrested -again. | 0:16:28 | 0:16:30 | |
-The following morning, he led police -to the body of Tati Rodgers. | 0:16:30 | 0:16:35 | |
-For fourteen months... | 0:16:40 | 0:16:41 | |
-..he'd denied knowing anything -about her disappearance. | 0:16:42 | 0:16:45 | |
-And now, he insisted -that'd she died naturally. | 0:16:46 | 0:16:49 | |
-For the first time, he told us that -he was responsible for burying her. | 0:16:53 | 0:16:59 | |
-But, he was still saying -that he hadn't killed her. | 0:16:59 | 0:17:03 | |
-SPEAKS POLISH | 0:17:09 | 0:17:12 | |
-The team's task now... | 0:17:17 | 0:17:19 | |
-..was to prove that he'd been -deceiving them the whole time. | 0:17:20 | 0:17:24 | |
-SPEAKS POLISH | 0:17:31 | 0:17:33 | |
-We asked him whether he had been -lying to us for fifteen months... | 0:17:56 | 0:18:00 | |
-..when he had the chance to tell us -what the truth was. | 0:18:01 | 0:18:04 | |
-He admitted that he had lied to us. | 0:18:04 | 0:18:08 | |
-Then, we asked him, how were we -supposed to believe him now... | 0:18:10 | 0:18:14 | |
-..when he said that -he hadn't killed her? | 0:18:14 | 0:18:16 | |
-Of course, -he couldn't answer that question. | 0:18:17 | 0:18:20 | |
-After uncovering the body, -a post-mortem was held... | 0:18:29 | 0:18:32 | |
-..at Glan Clwyd Hospital. | 0:18:32 | 0:18:34 | |
-The job of the pathologist was -to find out how Tati died. | 0:18:34 | 0:18:38 | |
-Hi. I'm Mali. | 0:18:40 | 0:18:42 | |
-Nice to meet you. | 0:18:42 | 0:18:44 | |
-It can be difficult to determine -the cause of death of a body... | 0:18:44 | 0:18:48 | |
-..that has been buried in the ground -for fourteen months. | 0:18:48 | 0:18:52 | |
-But this case was different. | 0:18:52 | 0:18:55 | |
-The fact that she was buried -in clay... | 0:19:01 | 0:19:04 | |
-..which is a fairly dense medium... | 0:19:04 | 0:19:07 | |
-..helped to protect her from -the degree of decomposition... | 0:19:07 | 0:19:12 | |
-..that you would normally expect -from someone who has been buried... | 0:19:12 | 0:19:16 | |
-..for that length of time. | 0:19:16 | 0:19:18 | |
-Tati's body was found -in a rounded shape... | 0:19:18 | 0:19:21 | |
-..which preserved important -evidence. | 0:19:21 | 0:19:27 | |
-There were some very subtle marks... | 0:19:27 | 0:19:29 | |
-..internally to the muscles -of the neck... | 0:19:29 | 0:19:32 | |
-..with fractures -to both thyroid horns. | 0:19:33 | 0:19:36 | |
-They were what I considered -to be... | 0:19:36 | 0:19:39 | |
-..injuries highly suggestive -of fractures. | 0:19:39 | 0:19:42 | |
-That made me very suspicious. | 0:19:42 | 0:19:45 | |
-According to the pathologist... | 0:19:48 | 0:19:50 | |
-..it was possible that Tati -had been strangled. | 0:19:50 | 0:19:53 | |
-Any of these can be damaged -in compression of the neck. | 0:19:55 | 0:19:59 | |
-Particularly manual strangulation... | 0:19:59 | 0:20:02 | |
-..where a hand is placed -over someone's neck. | 0:20:02 | 0:20:05 | |
-You can imagine that tightening -force around the neck... | 0:20:05 | 0:20:09 | |
-..compressing those structures there -which is why they snap. | 0:20:09 | 0:20:12 | |
-But with Reszpondek insisting that -she'd died of natural causes... | 0:20:14 | 0:20:18 | |
-..detectives went to Sumatra in -Indonesia to ask Tati's family... | 0:20:18 | 0:20:23 | |
-..about her medical history. | 0:20:23 | 0:20:25 | |
-The family said that there was -nothing the matter with Tati... | 0:20:29 | 0:20:34 | |
-..before she left Indonesia. | 0:20:34 | 0:20:37 | |
-Her father said that his family -lived into old age. | 0:20:37 | 0:20:42 | |
-There was no reason for Tati -to drop dead. | 0:20:42 | 0:20:48 | |
-The team now believed that -they had sufficient evidence... | 0:20:54 | 0:20:58 | |
-..to bring the case to court. | 0:20:58 | 0:21:00 | |
-On 9 November, 2009... | 0:21:03 | 0:21:05 | |
-..Lukasz Reszpondek appeared -at Mold Crown Court. | 0:21:06 | 0:21:09 | |
-He denied murder. | 0:21:13 | 0:21:14 | |
-But after hearing the evidence -over a period of three weeks... | 0:21:15 | 0:21:19 | |
-..the jury found him guilty. | 0:21:19 | 0:21:22 | |
-He was jailed for life. | 0:21:25 | 0:21:27 | |
-The judge sentenced him to a minimum -of eighteen years in prison. | 0:21:28 | 0:21:32 | |
-After months of undercover -surveillance... | 0:21:43 | 0:21:46 | |
-..and over fifty interviews... | 0:21:46 | 0:21:48 | |
-..proving that Lukasz Reszpondek -was a liar and a murderer... | 0:21:49 | 0:21:53 | |
-..was a relief for the team. | 0:21:53 | 0:21:54 | |
-Pride is the word that I would use - -that we got to the truth. | 0:21:55 | 0:22:00 | |
-That's what we look for -when we question suspects. | 0:22:04 | 0:22:08 | |
-We're looking for the truth. | 0:22:08 | 0:22:10 | |
-I was pleased to see Lukasz -Reszpondek sent to prison for life. | 0:22:12 | 0:22:17 | |
-Also, we got justice -for Tati's family... | 0:22:20 | 0:22:25 | |
-..who were so far away in Indonesia. | 0:22:25 | 0:22:28 | |
-Tati's body was repatriated -to Indonesia. | 0:22:30 | 0:22:32 | |
-After months of anxiety -and uncertainty... | 0:22:33 | 0:22:35 | |
-..this was a comfort to her family. | 0:22:36 | 0:22:38 | |
-So, eventually, -Tati returned to Indonesia. | 0:22:42 | 0:22:47 | |
-This was much appreciated -by the family. | 0:22:47 | 0:22:52 | |
-Reszpondek believed that -he had succeeded... | 0:23:01 | 0:23:04 | |
-..in tricking the police -and hiding his crime. | 0:23:04 | 0:23:07 | |
-For fourteen months, -the disappearance of Tati Rodgers... | 0:23:07 | 0:23:11 | |
-..was a complete mystery -to her family and friends. | 0:23:11 | 0:23:14 | |
-But the detectives persevered, -and they eventually succeeded... | 0:23:14 | 0:23:19 | |
-..in providing answers -and getting justice for them... | 0:23:19 | 0:23:22 | |
-..by putting the murderer -behind bars. | 0:23:22 | 0:23:25 | |
-S4C Subtitles by Testun Cyf. | 0:23:48 | 0:23:50 | |
-. | 0:23:50 | 0:23:50 |