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Unlocking the Cage

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This programme contains some strong language from the start

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and scenes which some viewers may find upsetting.

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These animals are extraordinarily cognitively complex.

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They have their own cultures...

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..they're self-conscious, autonomous and self-determinate.

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They have a theory of mind so that they not only know that they

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have a mind, but they know others have a mind.

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They understand that they are individuals who existed

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yesterday and will exist tomorrow because, when you imprison

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a chimpanzee, the chimpanzee understands that tomorrow he's going

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to be imprisoned and, as far as he knows, it's not going to end.

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What we are trying to do is change the way people view

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nonhuman animals because, right now, the line between human beings

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and nonhuman animals is at an irrational place.

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It's, "Are you a human? You have rights.

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"You're not a human, you don't." We're saying that's wrong.

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It's a hell of a war,

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there's going to be a lot of battles in the war, but it's time to begin.

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It's amazing.

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Steve, did you ever think...?

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Exactly.

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Exactly.

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-GAVEL BANGS

-All rise.

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Hear ye, hear ye, hear ye.

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All persons having business

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for this appellant division

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of the Supreme Court in the state of New York, let them draw near.

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First case is the matter of Nonhuman Rights Project v Lavery.

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Mr Wise, I believe you're arguing.

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Thank you, Your Honour, may it please the court.

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My name is Stephen Wise...

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TYPING

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PHONE RINGS

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Ugh...

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Yup.

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'Just a few things. I just got an e-mail from Stephanie...'

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OK.

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We want to make sure that the judge has as small a number of

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reasons for throwing us out without breaching the merits of the case.

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-Yeah, well, keep me informed.

-'Sure.'

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That's it.

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That is the one that someone gave me in 1979,

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that was the first time I opened this book up and said,

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"Holy smoke, I had no idea that we were treating animals this way."

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MONKEYS SCREAM

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At one point, this was the only book in the library.

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Everything else, really, has gathered as a result of this book.

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When I read Peter Singer's book, I had kind of an epiphany

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because I thought, "Well, why am I a lawyer?

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"I'm a lawyer in order to pursue justice,

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"to try to raise up the underdog," and I thought,

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"I can't think of beings who are more brutalised than

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"this in greater numbers and if I spend my life working on their

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"behalf, I will have done more than

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"anything I could do as a human lawyer."

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So I immediately changed the focus of my law practice,

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almost on a dime. My law partner was stunned.

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HE CHUCKLES

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When I see nonhuman animals who are being horribly used

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and exploited and who are killed by the millions or the billions,

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I see all these lives being taken for frivolous human reasons

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-and it's all they have, just like it's all

-I

-have.

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And I don't believe

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that there's something extraordinarily exceptional

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about every human being that they somehow have

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something that allows them to be the masters of the world

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and all the nonhuman animals are the slaves of the world.

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So I decided to bring the whole problem to the attention

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of the legal system and then do something about it.

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All we can do is kick the first door open,

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that's what we're trying to do, we're trying to kick the door open

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and have people consider the personhood of nonhuman animals.

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I taught at Harvard,

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the first class at what I call animal rights law

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in the spring of 2000.

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So it was the first time Harvard ever had a course like that.

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People laughed at me and they barked when I went into a courtroom

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and people thought what I was doing was exceedingly odd.

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Isn't this our culture gone awry here a little bit?

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What you do is you erase the line that has been artificially

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drawn between human beings and nonhuman beings.

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-That's not an artificial line.

-It IS an artificial line.

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They are not human beings, they don't have humanlike

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intelligence and putting them

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on the same legal standing as a human being, that's insanity.

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Without further ado, Steve Wise.

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APPLAUSE

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It is great to be back here. I feel like a Borscht Belt comedian here.

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I have been practising animal protection law -

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this kind I call doggy death cases - for 30 years.

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Dogs who are ordered killed because they were very bad dogs.

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But I thought to myself, "I can save five or six dogs' lives a year

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"and save some other animals too and that should be enough to

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"get me into heaven," but the problem is

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is that, in the United States alone,

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for every beat of my heart, 160 animals are killed.

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So I can work for the next 40 or 50 years

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and I can save the lives of one heartbeat's worth

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of animals. I didn't want to do that.

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So I helped form the Nonhuman Rights Project.

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And now we've been laying the groundwork for the first

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lawsuits that are going to truly,

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seriously take on the idea of whether a nonhuman animal has

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to be a legal thing or whether or not

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it's possible to be a legal person. There's this thick legal wall.

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On one side of the wall are us now, all of us human beings.

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We all have legal rights, we all have the capacity, we are

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all persons, we have the capacity for legal rights.

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On the other side of the wall is the rest of creation

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and every nonhuman animal is seen as a legal thing, rightless.

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So how do you get the attention of the judge?

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How do you say,

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"Hey, I shouldn't be a thing, I should be a legal person"?

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The judge could say, "I'm sorry, is someone saying something?

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"I don't see you.

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"You're invisible, you're invisible to the law because you're a thing."

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And when you start studying the history of the common law,

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you realise that women were not persons for many purposes,

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children weren't, and slaves.

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The word "personhood" is extraordinarily complex.

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In fact, most people thought about it

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when the Citizens United case came down.

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For the first time in their life, it dawned on them

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that an entity that was not a human could be a person.

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So, for example, now humans are persons,

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but so can a corporation, so can a ship, so can a partnership.

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And I argue that these nonhuman animals,

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all four species of great apes,

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all of the elephants,

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all the cetaceans, are so cognitively

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complicated that these beings should be persons today

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and they should have certain kinds of rights

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that are fundamental to them.

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So the purpose of the Nonhuman Rights Project is to persuade

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a court to make a legal punch through that wall.

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APPLAUSE

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Steve, this is a case that presents the opportunity for the first

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time to acknowledge animals as having legal rights.

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Check.

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-That's right.

-And do we really want to do that...

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in the face of the potential consequences that would

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flow from it?

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I'm just talking about the very few animals that we're thinking of

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at the beginning.

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We're talking about apes, we're talking about cetaceans,

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-we're talking about elephants.

-And why those?

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Why are those going to be a different set?

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First of all, they're not native to the United States.

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They don't have a large economic value,

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there's been a lot of research done on them,

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cognitive research that kind of reverberated in ways in which

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we can identify with them.

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The slippery slope moves you

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immediately to the dogs and cats, doesn't it?

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Because if you do that for this one animal,

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you've done it for all animals.

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Well, we're not asking that a chicken have rights or that a cow

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have rights or that they even be deemed legal persons.

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What we're saying is that this gorilla or this dolphin...

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But if the judge lets this happen,

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PETA's going to file a suit the next day and go for chickens.

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And we'll have to see what their arguments are.

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It's kind of terra nova.

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People haven't tried it, so we have to figure out what we can do

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but we know that where they are now is wrong.

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The Nonhuman Rights Project is planning

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on bringing probably two suits

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in 2013 in two states in the United States.

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-These are really...

-'Which states?'

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Two states, we haven't yet chosen those states.

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We have about 70, that's seven-zero, volunteers.

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They're law professors or they're lawyers or they're law students.

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Liz! How are you? LAUGHTER

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So what we want to do is try to figure out, through our work today,

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the way that we're going to win these suits.

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We have to understand how judges think.

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Right, one of the hurdles that we're going to have to overcome

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is the judge saying, "Listen, you're animal welfare people -

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"you have the Animal Welfare Act, you have humane slaughter.

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"Why isn't that enough?"

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That raises a whole other issue, which is -

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how do we characterise this case?

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Because if I am the other side,

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I want to characterise it exactly in that way.

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"Hey, Judge, this is an animal case," and we're saying,

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"Hey, Judge, this is a civil liberties case."

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This is not an animal welfare case.

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-This is a "human rights" case.

-Right.

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Because no court has ever been asked to decide to what degree

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a nonhuman animal should be entitled to equality because of...

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-because we're like them.

-Right.

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You know, the animals that we're looking at most closely

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are the different species of great apes because they're really,

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really smart, so I'm looking to speak to the world's experts in...

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..in those areas, all the people who study those specific animals.

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Especially the cognition.

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Those are the people that I'm trying to track down.

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CHIMPS WHOOP

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Hey, Tatu, Tatu.

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She's saying "milk".

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Who wants milk? Can you sign?

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"Tatu."

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What colour is the milk? Do you remember?

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White, yes. You're so smart!

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TATU WHOOPS SHE MIMICS

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Tatu was cross-fostered by Allen and Trixie Gardner,

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so when she was just two days old, she joined this cross-fostering

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project, meaning that she was raised exactly like a human child.

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She learned to use spoons, she sat in a high chair, she wore bibs,

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she learned to use the potty, she had a bath every night.

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So, in that environment, from the humans she acquired her signs.

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The sign language stuff is really nice evidence for the project

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Steven's doing.

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When people see the chimps signing,

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they see nonhumans in a completely different light,

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cos they're like, "Wait a minute, they just said something."

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-Hello.

-Nice to meet you.

-Nice to meet you.

-Yeah.

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Thanks for helping us.

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I'm Steve's wife, Gail. Hi, how are you?

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Well, I actually went to a talk many years ago

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and it was the beginning of you talking about this stuff.

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Yeah, we used to talk about what we were thinking of doing and then what

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we were planning on doing, and now

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we talk about what we're doing. Yes.

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I'm really interested in the signing,

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what sort of signing has gone on since the two chimpanzees

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have moved here.

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-Well...

-Between themselves and with others too.

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Yeah, they're signing with the other chimps. I'm excited. Yeah.

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-TATU PANTS

-That's Tatu.

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-She's saying, "Chase, chase."

-Just like that? That's "chase"?

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That's "chase".

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This is "coffee", so you've got to be careful!

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Yeah, interesting.

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Now she's saying, "Black, black." Black's her favourite colour.

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-Uh-huh.

-You can see black clothes, the water and the trees

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and then she's signing "tree". So different than where they were.

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It's not freedom by any stretch of the means, but still...

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You know, they're all institutionalised in research

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or in captive situations,

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so they have the need to be close

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to caging and to be in a confined space.

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You know, they don't climb trees,

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they don't use some of the things we have here.

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We'll go take a look at the island areas.

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You know, it's outdoor space without bars over your head, but...

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That's OK because it's there

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-and they want it, they have it.

-Autonomy.

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-Autonomy is what I talk about because we value it so much.

-We do.

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And when we punish people, we punish them by taking away

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their autonomy and that's really what putting you in prison is.

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It's stripping you of your autonomy in every way.

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And that's a terrible, terrible punishment for you.

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Breaks my heart.

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In Japan, there was a chimpanzee colony

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and then the place built

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a kind of lab that jutted into the place

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where the chimpanzees were outside.

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And then they had computer terminals inside and outside

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and that's where they have the experiments about the memory.

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They, like, flash something on the screen for, like, a quarter second.

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They'll flash a series of numbers and then they cover up

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the numbers in, like, a tenth of a second and then the chimpanzees can

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then recall what the numbers were and press them in the right order.

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I did that, I was not as good as the chimpanzees.

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I know you want to see him. I KNOW you want to see him.

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-When he's ready. We can only go to people when they're ready.

-OK.

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He would like to learn a click language.

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If we knew a click language, we could probably...

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instil it in Tika.

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YELPING

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You can see that Kanzi's already asking for you to talk to him.

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You want me to come in and see you?

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Yeah, he wants me to come in and see him right now.

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-OK, go ahead.

-MACHINE:

-'Zoo, ball.'

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-'Question - visitors have ball.'

-Do you have a ball?

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Kanzi wants to know if you have a ball.

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Is this the ball or is it a bigger ball?

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Kanzi?

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Come say "big" if you want a big ball.

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Little ball. Is that what you want? You want that little ball?

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Kanzi can understand all kinds of things,

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all kinds of novel sentences.

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Almost anything.

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I'm going to put on my mask

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and we're going to try a sentence for Kanzi, OK?

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Kanzi, could you take my shoe off, please?

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You might need to untie it.

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Good job.

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So he may be coming to you to see if you might help us

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in filing an affidavit,

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talking about your work, especially if we have an ape,

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talking about the cognitive abilities that they might

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have that would then help us persuade courts.

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Are you going to try to make a case that apes, cetaceans and elephants

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are particularly intelligent and different from other animals?

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No, we're just going to make a case that there are certain criteria,

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what I call practical autonomy, and that any animal who meets that

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criteria should then be a legal person.

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Yeah.

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'Banana, juice.'

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I'd want every single known fact about chimpanzee cognition

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-to be in an affidavit.

-Right.

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We have to overwhelm the judge with everything that's possibly

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-out there.

-Yes.

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And, of course, the fact that Jane Goodall's on our board -

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when we contact someone, remind them that Jane Goodall is on our board.

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Exactly.

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OK, well, we are 100% sure that New York is our jurisdiction.

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And we appear to have four chimpanzees

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who are possible in New York.

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-So who would we go with?

-Well, let's start off with Charlie.

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-OK.

-Who is his mate? Kiko.

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Kiko is deaf from brain damage when he was abused.

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-Oh!

-Yeah.

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And I looked at the YouTube video of Charlie that they put out.

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Punch, punch!

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Actually, they have been on TV, National Geographic

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did something on them.

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Good.

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He and his wife lived in the home with them.

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Charlie, big boy. He doesn't need a diaper, huh?

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I mean, he's 23 years old now, he's got a large enclosure and you

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need to look at that because there is a moral issue here with Charlie.

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He's not where he's supposed to be

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but he is very attached to his trainer.

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Mm.

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I mean, he's living an artificial life, but I'm not sure that we

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-can make a case that it would be right to take him away.

-Yeah, OK.

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-It's a no.

-How about the ones in the... What's the one in Bailiwick?

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-Merlin and Reba.

-Merlin and Reba, OK.

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Merlin and Reba, both acquired from the circus,

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one is male, one is female.

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Let me give you an idea - Bailiwick also has paintball.

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-That's what we had, yeah.

-Right, that stuck into my...

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I was looking at the Better Business Bureau

0:20:070:20:09

and on a scale of A+ to F,

0:20:090:20:12

-they give it an F.

-WOMAN GASPS

0:20:120:20:14

-Wow.

-OK.

0:20:140:20:15

Well, I think this is going to send shock waves

0:20:150:20:18

in directions that we cannot even conceive of right now.

0:20:180:20:21

-Oh, absolutely.

-Which is the whole purpose of what we're doing.

-Right.

0:20:210:20:24

-We're not in there to save two chimpanzees in Bailiwick Zoo.

-Right.

0:20:240:20:27

I mean, we ARE there

0:20:270:20:29

but they also represent other nonhuman animals as well.

0:20:290:20:33

-Yeah.

-Mm-hm.

0:20:330:20:35

PARROT SQUAWKS

0:20:420:20:43

MERLIN HOOTS

0:21:120:21:15

They said that the other chimpanzee died about three days ago

0:21:270:21:30

and that Reba was 55 and that they only live till 60.

0:21:300:21:37

I think he's been there for seven years with that other chimpanzee

0:21:370:21:40

and now, for three days since Reba died, he's all by himself.

0:21:400:21:45

I'm sure he must be grieving and mourning

0:21:450:21:48

in the way that chimpanzees do.

0:21:480:21:50

That chimpanzee is depressed.

0:22:000:22:03

He's not interested in doing anything, he's just...

0:22:030:22:05

He's just sitting there...

0:22:050:22:07

by himself.

0:22:070:22:09

On the internet, there's all kinds of comments.

0:22:090:22:12

People are saying,

0:22:120:22:13

"How come the zoo hasn't been cited for cruelty to animals?

0:22:130:22:15

"How come the zoo...? How come it's allowed to operate?"

0:22:150:22:19

But it appears to be perfectly legal

0:22:200:22:23

and under the statutes of New York, there's nothing else that we can do.

0:22:230:22:27

Well, with any luck... It's almost May.

0:22:290:22:33

May, June, July, August, September, October...

0:22:330:22:35

Seven or eight months, we have a shot of getting him out of there.

0:22:350:22:39

Pretty impressive.

0:22:510:22:52

I've found Merlin's home.

0:22:560:22:58

I'm already...I imagine him, like, running around here.

0:22:580:23:02

When we did introductions,

0:23:070:23:08

we tried to have a balance of male and female

0:23:080:23:12

because chimps in the wild live in multi-male, multi-female groups

0:23:120:23:15

and male chimps get along very well.

0:23:150:23:17

In the wild,

0:23:170:23:18

they would have a community of which all the chimps are familiar

0:23:180:23:21

with each other but they would go off in groups of two, three,

0:23:210:23:25

four, five, small subgroups in range over many miles, so here,

0:23:250:23:31

they had the opportunity, definitely,

0:23:310:23:33

because the islands are so large that they have their favourite spots

0:23:330:23:37

and they can break apart

0:23:370:23:38

and then they usually come together at night to sleep and for meals.

0:23:380:23:42

So this is the best way that we can replicate that.

0:23:420:23:44

Obviously, it's not perfect.

0:23:440:23:46

This is always one of my favourite sights,

0:23:460:23:48

just like a crowd of chimps together, hanging out.

0:23:480:23:52

I mean, I love that because you see the sanctuary

0:23:520:23:55

and it's so easy to forget their past.

0:23:550:23:57

-REPORTER:

-A 37.5lb chimpanzee was chosen last night to make this ride.

0:24:000:24:05

This particular one was selected on the basis of physical

0:24:060:24:10

and psychological characteristics.

0:24:100:24:13

-MISSION CONTROL:

-Five, four, three, two, one, zero.

0:24:210:24:26

There it goes, zero.

0:24:260:24:28

There it goes, it's up in the air.

0:24:290:24:31

This success moved the United States closer, by a big step,

0:24:350:24:40

to launch a man into space and bring him back safely.

0:24:400:24:44

CHIMPANZEES SCREECH CAGES RATTLE

0:24:440:24:48

We always like to show people... This cage

0:24:570:25:00

came from the Coulston Foundation

0:25:000:25:02

and we actually paid to have it brought here because we just

0:25:020:25:04

-want people to remember how they were treated.

-Mm.

0:25:040:25:08

So there was a shelf that the chimp could sit on, but this wall,

0:25:080:25:11

the back wall of the cage,

0:25:110:25:12

was hooked up to a hydraulic mechanism

0:25:120:25:14

and then could be used to squeeze forward.

0:25:140:25:16

So if they wanted to inject the chimp

0:25:160:25:18

with some sort of experimental substance or to anaesthetize them,

0:25:180:25:22

the wall would come forward

0:25:220:25:24

-and they would just squeeze them up against the bars.

-Mm.

0:25:240:25:27

And they lived like this their entire lives.

0:25:270:25:30

Um, decades, and I just can't even imagine it.

0:25:300:25:32

And then in 2002, we were able to move everybody from what was

0:25:350:25:39

the Coulston Foundation to Florida.

0:25:390:25:41

-266 chimpanzees.

-That's amazing.

0:25:410:25:44

It was the largest rescue of chimpanzees in history.

0:25:440:25:47

And now they're here.

0:25:480:25:50

As soon as I saw this place, I said, "Oh, my God."

0:25:510:25:53

I was texting people,

0:25:530:25:54

I said, "I hope we've found the place for Merlin."

0:25:540:25:56

-It is a beautiful place.

-It's a spectacular place.

0:25:560:25:58

I can really imagine him being here.

0:25:580:26:00

-So let's assume, you know, Merlin is declared a legal person.

-Person.

0:26:000:26:04

Does that mean all chimpanzees in New York State are legal persons?

0:26:040:26:07

-No, it simply just means it's Merlin.

-Just Merlin, OK.

0:26:070:26:10

-Well, it's funny, the common law, it moves case by case.

-Mm-hm.

0:26:100:26:15

So, ultimately, it would seem like you wouldn't have to

0:26:150:26:18

litigate these things any more. Eventually, why litigate?

0:26:180:26:20

-There's already been ten chimpanzees declared a person.

-Right, exactly.

0:26:200:26:23

Right now, we haven't made it public

0:26:230:26:25

which state we've actually picked and which chimpanzee.

0:26:250:26:28

It's really the first salvo in a strategic war

0:26:280:26:32

-that's about to break out in the fall.

-OK.

0:26:320:26:34

Where's Merlin? I do not see him.

0:26:580:27:02

Oh, my God, are you serious?

0:27:060:27:08

There was a sign that said there was a chimpanzee?

0:27:080:27:11

Oh, my God.

0:27:120:27:14

He's not here.

0:27:140:27:16

I can't believe this.

0:27:180:27:20

We're two months away and this is, like, the worst-case scenario.

0:27:210:27:25

Oh, my God, Steve is going to flip.

0:27:250:27:28

RINGING TONE

0:27:330:27:35

-'Hey, Natalie.'

-Hi, Steve.

0:27:350:27:37

Uh...

0:27:390:27:41

Merlin died last night.

0:27:410:27:43

-'You're kidding me.'

-No.

0:27:440:27:46

'No. That is the worst news...'

0:27:470:27:50

He was punching himself in the face for some time

0:27:500:27:54

and they finally decided to take him to the vet

0:27:540:27:57

and he had an infected tooth and had a root canal

0:27:570:28:02

and they said he didn't make it on the way home.

0:28:020:28:05

And they had an autopsy and he had an engorged liver

0:28:050:28:08

and it just couldn't handle the anaesthesia.

0:28:080:28:11

'OK.'

0:28:110:28:13

I'm really sorry to break this news to you.

0:28:130:28:15

'Oh, well, yeah, I'm glad you're there

0:28:150:28:17

'and you know and now we have to figure out our next step.'

0:28:170:28:22

A week ago today,

0:28:260:28:27

Natalie went to Bailiwick

0:28:270:28:29

and learned that our petitioner Merlin was dead

0:28:290:28:33

and so we're going back to the two that we had originally been

0:28:330:28:37

-talking about, which are Kiko and Charlie at Niagara Falls.

-Yes.

0:28:370:28:41

What are they called now?

0:28:410:28:43

The Primate Sanctuary, they're called The Primate Sanctuary.

0:28:430:28:46

They were, at one time, called Monkey Business.

0:28:460:28:48

Their website advertises 26 monkeys and 18 exotic birds.

0:28:480:28:52

And they say, "Contact us for parties"?

0:28:520:28:54

-"Book a presentation."

-"Book a presentation."

0:28:540:28:57

When I first started looking into these kind of people,

0:28:570:28:59

I remember going to their website specifically and just seeing all the

0:28:590:29:02

chimps dressed up in American flags and hats and waving their flags.

0:29:020:29:05

"It seems real, he's my baby."

0:29:050:29:08

He's like, "Coochie-coo..." you know that cutesy talk...

0:29:080:29:10

"It is as intense as a father loves a child.

0:29:100:29:14

"They aren't animals, they are my boys.

0:29:140:29:17

"I'm 'Daddy' and he understands Mommy - my wife Kristi."

0:29:170:29:20

MAN SCOFFS

0:29:200:29:22

It's kind of creepy. THEY CHUCKLE

0:29:220:29:24

I think it's REALLY creepy.

0:29:240:29:26

-This guy, we're not saying he's an evil person.

-Yeah.

0:29:260:29:28

He's just essentially enslaved these animals and they...

0:29:280:29:31

I'm not so sure he's not an evil person.

0:29:310:29:33

It's like any kind of kidnapper.

0:29:330:29:34

-It's kind of delusional.

-Exactly, Charles, it's delusional.

0:29:340:29:38

There it is right there.

0:29:500:29:52

Let's see if we can see through here.

0:29:530:29:56

KNOCKS ON DOOR

0:29:570:29:58

Is this where Charlie the Karate Chimpanzee is?

0:29:580:30:01

-Yeah.

-Can I get...? Can I buy a video?

-We don't sell videos.

0:30:010:30:05

Oh, I saw it on the internet.

0:30:050:30:06

No, actually, our facility isn't open to the public.

0:30:060:30:09

We're in the process of building a new sanctuary

0:30:090:30:13

out in Wilson, New York.

0:30:130:30:14

We just got approved on June 26th.

0:30:140:30:16

-OK. You taught the karate?

-I did, yeah...

0:30:160:30:19

-Well, my brother owns three martial arts studio in New York.

-Oh, I see.

0:30:190:30:23

So it was something that he picked up cos when he was a baby,

0:30:230:30:26

I used to take him there cos I'm working out

0:30:260:30:28

and he just picked him up and looked at him

0:30:280:30:30

and said, "Let's try it."

0:30:300:30:32

It just mushroomed into that, and the best part about it,

0:30:320:30:35

he loved doing it.

0:30:350:30:36

And when you watch his martial arts on, like, YouTube or something,

0:30:360:30:40

you can tell he's having fun because that was what it was all about.

0:30:400:30:44

-How old's Charlie now?

-He's 27.

0:30:440:30:47

And we have our other chimp, Kiko, who's a deaf chimp that we rescued.

0:30:470:30:50

-Yeah.

-Where was Kiko rescued from?

0:30:500:30:52

It was a TV series called Tarzan Comes To New York

0:30:520:30:55

and Kiko was the chimp in it.

0:30:550:30:57

-Well, you left the keys inside.

-So what? Chimps can't ride.

0:30:570:31:01

CAR ENGINE REVS

0:31:010:31:03

POLICE SIREN BLARES

0:31:050:31:08

Drive. Drive.

0:31:090:31:11

'And supposedly Kiko bit someone'

0:31:120:31:15

and ended up getting the tar beat out of him.

0:31:150:31:17

He was hit on the head with a blunt instrument

0:31:170:31:20

and he ended up going deaf in both ears.

0:31:200:31:22

He's got about maybe 10% of hearing.

0:31:220:31:24

It must be so much work.

0:31:240:31:25

It's just nonstop and, I mean, don't get me wrong, I love it just being

0:31:250:31:30

with them so much and they just turn out to be really great chimpanzees.

0:31:300:31:36

-Really?

-Yeah.

0:31:360:31:37

OK, well, I won't take up any more of your... Thanks so much.

0:31:380:31:42

-All right, nice talking to you.

-Bye.

0:31:420:31:44

He wants to get 'em to a slightly less depressing

0:31:450:31:49

-place in his sanctuary.

-That sanctuary's not going to happen.

0:31:490:31:52

But that's the whole thing.

0:31:520:31:53

And I thought maybe he was independently wealthy or something

0:31:530:31:57

but he's trying to raise money for it...

0:31:570:32:00

A sanctuary, he's now up to 31 primates,

0:32:010:32:04

so 29 monkeys of various kinds and two chimpanzees.

0:32:040:32:07

But if his heart is in the right place...

0:32:070:32:09

It is in the right place, I think.

0:32:090:32:11

..which it seems to be at this juncture,

0:32:110:32:13

then he probably wouldn't mind having the chimps

0:32:130:32:15

being taken off his hands, except for one problem -

0:32:150:32:18

he has emotionally bonded with them.

0:32:180:32:20

Well, I know he has.

0:32:200:32:21

So, for him and the way he thinks,

0:32:210:32:23

-that's going to be like taking away his children.

-I agree.

0:32:230:32:27

-REPORTER:

-Tonight, the entertainment world

0:32:290:32:31

is mourning a popular primate -

0:32:310:32:33

Charlie the Karate Chimp passed away

0:32:330:32:35

at a sanctuary in Niagara County yesterday.

0:32:350:32:37

During his 26 years...

0:32:370:32:38

Well, I got an e-mail that Charlie, our chimpanzee in Niagara Falls,

0:32:380:32:42

one of the two of Charlie and Kiko, died of cardiomyopathy.

0:32:420:32:46

And in fact it was the third blow that we've had in the last

0:32:460:32:48

seven months in which our chimpanzee plaintiffs have died -

0:32:480:32:52

-Reba, Merlin and now Charlie.

-Right.

0:32:520:32:55

I mean, captivity, it's just killing these guys

0:32:550:32:58

-so I don't want to take any more chances.

-Right.

0:32:580:33:00

We need to locate every surviving chimpanzee in New York State

0:33:000:33:04

and file a suit on their behalf.

0:33:040:33:06

Yes, that's number one.

0:33:060:33:08

That says "Mayfield - 5 miles."

0:33:210:33:23

We're looking for something called Santa's Hitching Post

0:33:250:33:28

-and there was nothing like that.

-'No, I said it was a trailer park.'

0:33:280:33:31

Where did we get the name Santa's Hitching Post? I have no idea.

0:33:310:33:34

INCOHERENT ON PHONE

0:33:340:33:36

Oh, this is a trailer place. And they rent out reindeer?

0:33:360:33:41

There it is. Is it the Circle G or something?

0:33:440:33:46

CAR HORN BLARES

0:33:540:33:57

This might sound like a stupid question -

0:33:570:33:59

we saw somebody on The Today Show talking about reindeer...

0:33:590:34:03

-Yes, we do.

-You do? Can I see them?

-Sure.

0:34:030:34:06

Actually, this is Buddy coming at you,

0:34:080:34:11

this is one that was on The Today Show.

0:34:110:34:13

-Do both males and females have antlers?

-Yes, they do.

0:34:130:34:15

-And the one with no horns, that's the bull.

-Oh, cos he'll attack?

0:34:150:34:19

-Yeah, he actually comes after the gate.

-Oh, I see.

0:34:190:34:22

-Someone told me you had a monkey.

-There's a chimp in there.

0:34:220:34:24

Oh, he's in...?

0:34:240:34:26

He was actually in movies back in the day,

0:34:260:34:29

Project X and all them other...

0:34:290:34:31

-Chimpanzees in the space programme?

-Yeah.

0:34:310:34:33

OK, stop flying.

0:34:360:34:39

CHIMPANZEE CHATTERS

0:34:390:34:40

Oh, he must be 30 or 40 years old.

0:34:440:34:47

We had one, she lived to be, like, 60-something years old at one point.

0:34:470:34:51

-Really?

-Yeah.

0:34:510:34:53

-Doesn't he get lonely?

-Yeah, he is.

0:34:530:34:55

He's supposed to be going to Florida to go on to another farm

0:34:550:34:57

because the last one that was in there was his little friend there.

0:34:570:35:01

She died actually not too long ago, so...

0:35:010:35:04

Just trying to find him a home where he can go

0:35:040:35:07

and be with other animals and, you know, more chimps

0:35:070:35:09

and have more room to run around.

0:35:090:35:10

"Sabo's."

0:35:100:35:12

INCOHERENT SPEECH

0:35:140:35:17

Sabo's Chimpanzees.

0:35:170:35:19

You ought to see him through this window.

0:35:240:35:26

-He's eating, he's eating a banana.

-You see him eating now?

-Oh, yeah.

0:35:300:35:35

Hi, Tommy.

0:35:450:35:46

He's old. I'm not sure how old he is but he's old.

0:35:460:35:50

-This must be where he lives.

-Yeah, this is where he lives.

0:35:500:35:53

He's got a TV to watch and then he's got there, the jungle.

0:35:530:35:56

They're strong.

0:35:560:35:59

Yeah, he won't do much, he just sits there.

0:35:590:36:01

TV PLAYS IN BACKGROUND

0:36:020:36:06

Hey, Natalie. Well, we confirmed Tommy is one sad-looking chimpanzee.

0:36:130:36:17

Thanks for telling me about The Today Show

0:36:170:36:20

because I said I'd seen him on The Today Show and he came

0:36:200:36:23

and showed me his reindeer and then after a while,

0:36:230:36:26

we asked whether he had any other animals around.

0:36:260:36:29

He wasn't the owner, he was a handyman and they said they were

0:36:290:36:33

trying to get him to a place in Florida, that's what they said.

0:36:330:36:37

-We didn't ask anything.

-'I'm really sorry you had to see that.'

0:36:370:36:41

It was him, there were perhaps 10 to 12 empty cages

0:36:410:36:45

and then he was in one of them.

0:36:450:36:47

And about perhaps 15 feet away from him

0:36:470:36:50

was a small TV that was showing PBS, cartoons.

0:36:500:36:54

'Oh, God, that is so...'

0:36:540:36:55

Oh, please. I think we're all ready to cry, it was really...

0:36:550:36:59

It was a very sad thing.

0:36:590:37:01

RINGING TONE

0:37:080:37:10

-'Hi, Liddy.'

-Hey, Steve.

0:37:100:37:13

I am going to the State University in Stony Brook

0:37:130:37:16

where two chimpanzees, Hercules and Leo,

0:37:160:37:19

-are being held for research and locomotion experimentation.

-'Right.'

0:37:190:37:26

If you go on Stony Brook's website, they talk about the primates

0:37:260:37:30

so that's why the chimpanzees must be there.

0:37:300:37:34

-MAN ON VIDEO:

-This is Hercules.

0:37:340:37:36

Hercules is helping scientists understand

0:37:360:37:38

the origins of human walking.

0:37:380:37:40

And this is Hercules' colleague, Leo.

0:37:410:37:45

By tracing the markers, the researchers were able to understand

0:37:450:37:48

that chimps swing their hips much more than humans when they walk.

0:37:480:37:52

OK, so I couldn't get any read from anyone

0:38:050:38:09

if they are aware of the presence of Hercules and Leo.

0:38:090:38:13

What I DO know is that people don't want to talk about it, they just...

0:38:130:38:18

They don't.

0:38:180:38:19

-'Well, we can still file and if they're not there...'

-Absolutely.

0:38:190:38:23

And because Stony Brook is the State University,

0:38:230:38:27

we are going to go head-to-head with the Attorney General.

0:38:270:38:31

'OK, let's get moving.'

0:38:310:38:32

-Hello, David, thank you for coming.

-Hey, David, how are you?

0:38:380:38:43

-Nice to see you, long time.

-Ages, huh?

0:38:430:38:45

-Do you want to do it like this?

-Yes, perfect.

0:38:450:38:48

I want to welcome everybody today

0:38:480:38:50

to the Nonhuman Rights Project moot court,

0:38:500:38:53

in which we will be helping Steve in the Nonhuman Rights Project

0:38:530:38:57

practise for our first lawsuits in Tommy's case.

0:38:570:39:00

Mr Wise, you can understand,

0:39:010:39:03

I'm sure, why we're somewhat concerned

0:39:030:39:05

about being the first court in the entire world

0:39:050:39:07

to come to the conclusions that you're arguing for

0:39:070:39:10

and it seems to me what you're saying is

0:39:100:39:12

if I see chimpanzees in environments

0:39:120:39:14

where they're not being appropriately treated,

0:39:140:39:16

where I think they're suffering a basic welfare problem,

0:39:160:39:19

I'm going to go in to get them out to put them

0:39:190:39:22

in environments where I think they are treated appropriately.

0:39:220:39:24

But if I see places where the animals are treated well,

0:39:240:39:28

then I'm not going to bother with them because what am I going to do?

0:39:280:39:31

Move them from one sanctuary to another?

0:39:310:39:32

So I'm only, ultimately,

0:39:320:39:34

focused on chimpanzees that are being treated badly.

0:39:340:39:37

Are being treated in a way that does not respect their autonomy

0:39:370:39:39

-and self-determination.

-Right.

0:39:390:39:41

So why is this just not a welfare concern?

0:39:410:39:43

I mean, OK, so the Animal Welfare Act,

0:39:430:39:45

you don't think is good enough?

0:39:450:39:46

The anti-cruelty statutes are not good enough?

0:39:460:39:49

So why don't we just make the laws good enough?

0:39:490:39:50

-Have you tried to make the laws good enough?

-We have not tried to do that.

0:39:500:39:53

Have you gone to the USDA and asked them to enforce the Animal Welfare Act?

0:39:530:39:57

We don't think that they're violating the Animal Welfare Act

0:39:570:40:00

or they're violating the state's anti-cruelty statute.

0:40:000:40:02

You know he's in compliance with his licence in every respect?

0:40:020:40:05

We believe he is, that's right.

0:40:050:40:06

And that...that's the problem,

0:40:060:40:09

is that...is that there is no other place

0:40:090:40:12

where we can go for his benefit.

0:40:120:40:15

-So...

-Really? You can't go to the legislature?

0:40:150:40:17

Well, that's like saying if I have a problem, I don't follow brief,

0:40:170:40:21

what I do is I go to legislature. I have...

0:40:210:40:24

-Tommy has the right, we argue now...

-No, it's not quite the same as that.

0:40:240:40:27

-..has the right to habeas corpus.

-It's actually like saying

0:40:270:40:30

we have a system of laws that regulate the welfare of animals and you feel that they're insufficient.

0:40:300:40:34

What you're talking about is the welfare of animals here.

0:40:340:40:37

So rather than go to the systems that make those laws and try and have them properly enforced,

0:40:370:40:41

you want to come to our court and ask for a right that's never been granted in the history of humankind.

0:40:410:40:46

May I make a suggestion?

0:40:460:40:48

I feel like you've fallen for their trap.

0:40:480:40:50

You've dug yourself a hole and you can't get out of it.

0:40:500:40:52

-I don't see the problem.

-You don't feel stuck?

-No. Stuck in what way?

0:40:520:40:56

-Now we're arguing over welfare.

-The welfare of animals.

-That's because YOU keep using the word "welfare".

0:40:560:41:01

And so I figured, "OK, I've lost this judge, I'm not going to get him."

0:41:010:41:04

I think you're wrong.

0:41:040:41:06

-What you've lost is...

-Can I give you constructive feedback?

0:41:060:41:09

-Let me tell you what you said back then.

-LAUGHTER

0:41:090:41:13

Bailiff, would you remove this woman?

0:41:130:41:14

-LAUGHTER

-Remove her from the court.

-No!

0:41:140:41:17

BIRDSONG

0:41:180:41:20

CHATTER

0:41:220:41:23

I tell Gail when she plays you,

0:41:240:41:26

"If you just make a run, you should be able to take her."

0:41:260:41:29

Whose side are you on?

0:41:290:41:31

-I have to be on my wife's side.

-Well, what about your mother?

0:41:310:41:34

I'm usually on my mother's side,

0:41:340:41:36

unless she's in conflict with my wife.

0:41:360:41:37

You haven't been on my side in several years.

0:41:370:41:40

Oh, now it's getting ugly.

0:41:400:41:42

Now... LAUGHTER

0:41:420:41:43

-So you're really breaking ground here on different levels.

-I hope so.

0:41:430:41:48

Cos no-one's ever done it before.

0:41:480:41:50

So we're trying to get all the affidavits in from all over the world.

0:41:500:41:53

And it happened, we got them. We got 'em.

0:41:530:41:56

'So what is the scientific argument that you will be making?'

0:41:590:42:02

Well, the scientific argument

0:42:020:42:03

is based on the affidavits of ten experts

0:42:030:42:07

we have from all over the world,

0:42:070:42:09

Japan, Sweden, Germany, Scotland, England and five more in the US,

0:42:090:42:15

based on 45 years of scientific observation

0:42:150:42:18

of chimpanzee language and communication, culture.

0:42:180:42:22

And it boils down to the fact

0:42:220:42:24

that all three cases, you know, Tommy and Hercules and Leo and Kiko,

0:42:240:42:28

they are autonomous creatures,

0:42:280:42:30

they should be able to live autonomous lives.

0:42:300:42:32

'If you are successful, if you win, what changes? What happens?'

0:42:320:42:37

I kind of view it as a legal transubstantiation,

0:42:370:42:41

where the nonhuman animal would come out of that court room

0:42:410:42:44

looking the exact same, but her legal status would be forever changed.

0:42:440:42:49

Dean, it turned out we had 400 citations. We were, like, stunned.

0:42:490:42:53

So, you know, if you can get to the judge and say,

0:43:000:43:02

"Judge, we're providing you with a pile of these affidavits,

0:43:020:43:05

"because all of these primatologists,

0:43:050:43:07

"all of these scientists have come to the same conclusion."

0:43:070:43:09

It's all science, science, science, science.

0:43:090:43:12

-Is this more advice?

-Yeah.

-OK.

-Sorry.

0:43:120:43:15

-LAUGHTER

-I see the wheels spinning in his head!

0:43:150:43:19

No, that's the Jewish mother.

0:43:190:43:21

LAUGHTER

0:43:210:43:23

CHATTER

0:43:440:43:46

Be kind.

0:43:490:43:51

-He was a terrific judge for us to go in front of.

-Right.

0:44:050:44:08

-We had not considered that he would on the spot order us in.

-Not in a million years.

0:44:080:44:12

To have been able to have a full oral argument on the record...

0:44:120:44:17

-Without another side.

-..that we had, it's just mind-blowing.

0:44:170:44:20

He felt that since it had never been done before, he could not do it.

0:44:200:44:25

But he did everything he could to get us the best possible record,

0:44:260:44:29

to get us up to the appellant courts to be able to present our arguments

0:44:290:44:32

-to those people he felt had the power to do it.

-Yes.

0:44:320:44:35

We were thinking of all the different ways that we might end up losing,

0:44:350:44:39

and this turns out to be probably the best way to go.

0:44:390:44:42

-That's totally unexpected.

-Yeah.

0:44:420:44:44

-Gosh! I just can't believe he kept helping us.

-I know.

0:44:470:44:51

It's a legal victory for us, so we want to make sure

0:44:510:44:53

-that nobody misinterprets what occurred.

-Exactly.

-Right.

0:44:530:44:56

-So we need to put out a comprehensive press release today.

-Today.

0:44:560:45:00

-Do you want to hear what Patrick Lavery said to the New York Times?

-Yes.

-Sure.

0:45:000:45:04

"Patrick C Lavery, the owner of Circle L Trailer Sales in Gloversville, where Tommy lives,

0:45:040:45:09

"said that he had heard about the petition from reporters' telephone calls.

0:45:090:45:12

"If they were to see where the chimp lived for the first 30 years of his life,

0:45:120:45:16

"they would jump up and down for joy at where she is now.

0:45:160:45:18

"Mr Lavery said he had not seen or been officially notified of the petition."

0:45:180:45:23

He has now.

0:45:230:45:25

-This is the New York Times?

-It is.

0:45:250:45:28

Oh, I love that. SHE LAUGHS

0:45:280:45:30

-WOMAN:

-'Kind of a bizarre lawsuit with big implications.'

0:45:320:45:34

At the centre of it is a chimpanzee,

0:45:340:45:37

and the key question is whether a chimp is a person.

0:45:370:45:41

-MAN:

-'Steven Wise of the Nonhuman Rights Project

0:45:410:45:43

'is seeking a writ of habeas corpus

0:45:430:45:45

'on behalf of Tommy, a 26-year-old chimp,

0:45:450:45:48

'arguing that animals with human qualities, such as chimps,

0:45:480:45:50

'deserve basic rights including freedom from imprisonment.'

0:45:500:45:54

-MAN:

-'The group is trying to invoke a right known as habeas corpus,

0:45:540:45:58

'a legal procedure which entitles inmates

0:45:580:46:00

'to have a judge review their detention.'

0:46:000:46:02

'Habeas corpus means "free the body"

0:46:020:46:05

'and it's been used throughout the years to free people

0:46:050:46:08

'from what's been considered an unjust incarceration.'

0:46:080:46:10

-WOMAN:

-'Under the law, a writ of habeas corpus

0:46:100:46:13

'can only be granted to legal persons,

0:46:130:46:16

'so the judge would need to find that chimpanzees

0:46:160:46:18

'have at least some limited rights traditionally reserved for humans.'

0:46:180:46:23

-MAN:

-'The landmark lawsuit was brought on behalf of Tommy,

0:46:230:46:26

'who lives caged on his owner's property in Gloversville.'

0:46:260:46:30

He's got seven rooms. He's got a room that he likes to sleep in,

0:46:300:46:33

another room where he likes to watch his TV

0:46:330:46:35

and there's other rooms he plays in.

0:46:350:46:36

It kind of hurts when you hear allegations

0:46:360:46:38

of people thinking that we're animal abusers here

0:46:380:46:41

and we're not treating him properly.

0:46:410:46:42

'Lavery insists Tommy loves the solitude

0:46:420:46:44

'and that his cage is licenced and inspected,

0:46:440:46:47

'saying he even has colour TV and receives enrichment daily

0:46:470:46:51

'including walls painted like a jungle.'

0:46:510:46:53

-MAN:

-'The owner claims that Tommy is just very happy.

0:46:530:46:57

'What do you have to say to that?'

0:46:570:47:00

I think that if Tommy is so happy,

0:47:000:47:03

I think the owner should move in.

0:47:030:47:05

-Oh, we're in this one today too?

-I think so.

0:47:090:47:12

-Oh, my God! It's you!

-There it is.

0:47:160:47:17

OK, we'll take three Daily News, one New York Times.

0:47:170:47:21

-OK. 5.

-Thank you.

0:47:210:47:23

So, you're trying to argue that chimps should be...

0:47:250:47:28

-Legal persons.

-A legal person?

-Yeah, that's right.

0:47:280:47:31

It's a tough sell, but not a bad cause.

0:47:310:47:35

What do you guys... What are you guys here to talk about?

0:47:350:47:37

Dirty detective from Brooklyn framed a lot of people.

0:47:370:47:41

-Oh, I think I saw, like, a headline.

-Yeah, yeah.

0:47:410:47:43

But this is far more interesting than what I'm talking about.

0:47:430:47:46

LAUGHTER

0:47:460:47:48

So, I suppose just reasoning this forward

0:47:480:47:51

in looking at the corporate personhood rationale...

0:47:510:47:54

It's not just corporations, it's ships, it's partnerships,

0:47:540:47:57

it's counties, it's states, there are lots of nonhuman persons.

0:47:570:48:01

There was a treaty last year

0:48:010:48:02

between the Maoris and the New Zealand government

0:48:020:48:04

where they agreed that a river was a person,

0:48:040:48:06

that in Hindu, an idol is a person.

0:48:060:48:08

I guess I would look to the Supreme Court's basis

0:48:080:48:12

for declaring corporate personhood,

0:48:120:48:15

since that strikes me as much more precedential for American purposes

0:48:150:48:19

than Hindu idols or New Zealand rivers, frankly.

0:48:190:48:22

-And you think this is a better fight, the legal fight?

-Yeah.

0:48:220:48:27

Because you expect to win it,

0:48:270:48:29

or because it creates a really good set of discussions,

0:48:290:48:32

-the way Peter Singer does about, you know...

-Both.

0:48:320:48:35

Both it creates and we expect to win it.

0:48:350:48:37

-We don't know that we're going to win this first round, but we will win it.

-Right.

0:48:370:48:41

I like it. I like it.

0:48:410:48:43

-MAN:

-Four, three...

0:48:430:48:45

Here we go.

0:48:450:48:47

I've got to tell you, this is a very interesting case, Steven,

0:48:470:48:50

because any time you kind of equate an animal with personhood,

0:48:500:48:53

it raises all sorts of questions.

0:48:530:48:55

This country has a very sordid history

0:48:550:48:57

when it comes to animals and humans and equating one with the other.

0:48:570:49:00

Of course, back in the early days of this country,

0:49:000:49:02

you had the three-fifths compromise,

0:49:020:49:04

meaning that African-Americans were three-fifths of a man.

0:49:040:49:07

And then, of course, those equating chimpanzees and apes

0:49:070:49:10

and stuff like that hideously so with black people -

0:49:100:49:13

I'd say, "Wait a minute, chimps are chimps, they are not human."

0:49:130:49:16

Obviously, we're not saying...

0:49:160:49:18

we're not saying that a chimpanzee is a human

0:49:180:49:20

and we're not equating chimpanzees with slaves.

0:49:200:49:24

What happens is that the legal pathway we're using,

0:49:240:49:28

a writ of habeas corpus,

0:49:280:49:30

is one that was traditionally used in England and in the United States

0:49:300:49:35

for slaves to try to challenge their status as a thing

0:49:350:49:38

-and move them into the status of a person.

-Mm-hm.

0:49:380:49:42

So there's a lot of law out there and kind of a path in front of us

0:49:420:49:45

for how we might be able to do that for someone like Tommy.

0:49:450:49:47

So we're saying when we say Tommy's a person,

0:49:470:49:50

-we simply mean that Tommy has the capacity to have a legal right.

-OK.

0:49:500:49:53

Well, I think you've clarified that.

0:49:530:49:55

We certainly wish Tommy and other animals like him well.

0:49:550:49:58

Steven Wise, thank you so much for joining us.

0:49:580:50:00

Thank you very much for having me.

0:50:000:50:01

Justice is heavy.

0:50:080:50:09

This week in the state of New York, we filed the first two cases

0:50:110:50:15

on behalf of chimpanzees

0:50:150:50:16

who were living by themselves and privately owned.

0:50:160:50:19

And today we're filing a lawsuit against Stony Brook,

0:50:190:50:22

which is a university here on Long Island,

0:50:220:50:24

which is imprisoning two chimpanzees

0:50:240:50:28

that they're using for biomedical research on locomotion.

0:50:280:50:31

If you had a message for Stony Brook now, what would that be?

0:50:310:50:33

Free the chimpanzees. LAUGHTER

0:50:330:50:35

Free the Stony Brook Two.

0:50:350:50:37

SHE CLEARS HER THROAT

0:50:400:50:43

The outcome was that he denied signing the petition.

0:50:430:50:48

He was not going to take the step of granting personhood to a chimpanzee.

0:50:480:50:54

It was the personhood issue.

0:50:540:50:57

-I was really expecting to see the judge.

-Well, you know, me too.

0:50:590:51:02

-I was, like, raring to go.

-I know.

0:51:020:51:04

I haven't heard a peep from the folks in Louisiana.

0:51:110:51:14

-I always forget their names.

-New Iberia?

-New Iberia, yeah.

-Uh-huh.

0:51:140:51:17

-That's funny.

-Did you expect to hear something?

0:51:170:51:19

-Well, they claim that they own the chimpanzees at Stony Brook.

-Yes.

0:51:190:51:23

New Iberia confirmed they own them.

0:51:230:51:25

They probably want to keep this so quiet.

0:51:250:51:27

-I'm not at all surprised that they haven't surfaced.

-Yeah.

0:51:270:51:31

'Well, Jane, the Humane Society has spent nine months undercover

0:51:380:51:42

'at the New Iberia Research Center in Louisiana,

0:51:420:51:44

'one of the largest primate research labs in the country,

0:51:440:51:47

'and she witnessed physical abuse of primates, monkeys being hit,

0:51:470:51:52

'but what was perhaps the worst

0:51:520:51:53

'was seeing animals driven to self-mutilation.

0:51:530:51:56

'The psychological abuse that these animals go through,

0:51:560:51:59

'being in isolation in small cages, many of them

0:51:590:52:02

'are tearing at their skin and their flesh with their hands.

0:52:020:52:05

'They had gaping wounds in their arms and legs

0:52:050:52:08

'and it was just terrible to see them literally driven mad.'

0:52:080:52:11

WILD SCREECHING

0:52:110:52:13

-MAN:

-'Mr Wise, your group

0:52:250:52:27

'has now lost its first three lower court rulings -

0:52:270:52:29

'what are your chances going forward?

0:52:290:52:32

'I'm not going to pretend that we thought

0:52:320:52:33

'that we were going to win at any of the trial courts - we did not.

0:52:330:52:36

'And if we won at this level,

0:52:360:52:39

'it would mean a lot to that single chimpanzee, but it would destroy

0:52:390:52:42

'our chance of being able to get it up to appellant court.

0:52:420:52:45

'And the reason that we want the decision up at an appellant court

0:52:450:52:49

'is that at that point it sets a state-wide precedent.

0:52:490:52:52

'And that's why we want the High Court of a state

0:52:520:52:56

'to make the decision in our favour.

0:52:560:52:58

'So have you already begun the appeals process?

0:52:580:53:00

'The appeals, we're already starting.

0:53:000:53:02

'The brief writing is going to go through the spring.

0:53:020:53:04

'and then we get on some kind of an oral-argument schedule,

0:53:040:53:07

'and up it goes.'

0:53:070:53:08

-WOMAN:

-'A New York appeals court is hearing a legal effort

0:53:150:53:18

'to have chimpanzees declared as persons.

0:53:180:53:21

'Attorney Steven Wise will argue Wednesday

0:53:210:53:24

'on behalf of a chimpanzee named Tommy.

0:53:240:53:26

'His group is also seeking

0:53:260:53:28

'the release of three other chimps in New York.'

0:53:280:53:31

-Oh, boy!

-Yes.

-I am so nervous.

0:53:310:53:33

-This has been, you know, seven years' worth of work.

-Yeah.

0:53:330:53:37

And it's... You know, everything rests on these ten minutes.

0:53:370:53:41

-I still think that one of the arguments is going to be welfare versus rights.

-Hmm.

0:53:410:53:46

Why is this not a welfare case if you're claiming

0:53:460:53:49

-that Tommy is not being properly cared for?

-Yeah.

0:53:490:53:51

And you have to go back to -

0:53:510:53:53

"That's not what we're talking about.

0:53:530:53:55

"We're not talking about..."

0:53:550:53:56

I can't get suckered into anything other than -

0:53:560:53:58

this is the detention of an autonomous being,

0:53:580:54:00

-we're not talking about how he's being treated.

-Exactly.

-Yep.

0:54:000:54:03

One thing is with your private animal law cases,

0:54:030:54:06

sometimes you get confused whether it's a cat or dog.

0:54:060:54:09

Just remember that Tommy's a chimpanzee.

0:54:090:54:11

I should... I'll probably remember.

0:54:110:54:14

HE LAUGHS

0:54:140:54:15

ALL LAUGH

0:54:150:54:16

-Steve, how're you doing?

-How am I doing?

0:54:220:54:24

Oh, I'm just pondering stuff I've been thinking about for 30 years.

0:54:240:54:29

HE LAUGHS

0:54:290:54:30

First case is matter of Nonhuman Rights Project v Lavery.

0:54:400:54:44

-Mr Wise, I believe you're arguing.

-Thank you, Your Honour.

0:54:440:54:47

May it please the court. My name is Steven Wise

0:54:470:54:50

and I first want to thank you for the privilege of appearing on behalf of Tommy,

0:54:500:54:54

who is a chimpanzee who is being kept in a cage in a warehouse in a town called Johnstown, New York.

0:54:540:55:01

Counsel, you want us to grant...

0:55:010:55:03

-Well, you wanted Judge Sise, but now you want us...

-Yes, Your Honour.

0:55:030:55:06

..to grant him immediate release from illegal detention.

0:55:060:55:09

-Is that correct?

-Yes, Your Honour.

0:55:090:55:11

Tommy in this circumstance is indeed a person who is entitled...

0:55:110:55:15

-YOU assert he is a person - we haven't decided that.

-Yes, Your Honour.

0:55:150:55:18

We do assert, that is our position,

0:55:180:55:21

that he is indeed a person and he is entitled then

0:55:210:55:24

to a common law writ of habeas corpus.

0:55:240:55:26

-Now, usually writs of habeas corpus involve adult human beings.

-Correct.

0:55:260:55:29

But there are many cases that have involved children.

0:55:290:55:32

For example, slave children in Massachusetts.

0:55:320:55:35

But there are no writs of habeas corpus at least in this state

0:55:350:55:38

that have involved nonhumans. Do you agree with that?

0:55:380:55:40

I do agree with that. This is a novel case in...in that way.

0:55:400:55:44

-However...

-Even you in your brief,

0:55:440:55:46

when you talk about individual rights,

0:55:460:55:48

you talk about the fact that along with those individual rights come responsibilities.

0:55:480:55:52

And you don't want us to foist any responsibilities upon this chimpanzee,

0:55:520:55:56

you just want us to determine that he has the opportunity to be free of this confinement.

0:55:560:56:01

The better way to view Tommy would be...

0:56:010:56:05

similar to a human child who has...who has rights,

0:56:050:56:09

you can't put a little child in a cage,

0:56:090:56:11

but doesn't have correlative responsibilities.

0:56:110:56:13

Mr Wise, if I may? Yes, Your Honour.

0:56:130:56:15

Corporations have been treated as legal persons

0:56:150:56:18

in a different context.

0:56:180:56:19

Citizens United, for example, is one case.

0:56:190:56:22

Can you give any example anywhere where, in a habeas corpus context,

0:56:220:56:28

the word "person" has been attributed to a nonhuman being?

0:56:280:56:32

A person is not synonymous with a human being.

0:56:320:56:35

A person means it's someone that the civil law now says counts,

0:56:350:56:39

they're no longer invisible to the civil law.

0:56:390:56:41

So we cited other common law countries.

0:56:410:56:43

An Indian court finds

0:56:430:56:45

that the holy books of the Sikh religion are persons.

0:56:450:56:49

And, in 2012, there was a treaty

0:56:490:56:50

between the indigenous peoples of New Zealand and the Crown

0:56:500:56:55

that designated a river as a legal person.

0:56:550:56:57

So a legal person is a legal concept,

0:56:570:57:01

it is not a biological concept,

0:57:010:57:02

which was the teaching of the Court of Appeals in Bern.

0:57:020:57:05

We know that from your brief.

0:57:050:57:06

Did you ask the owners whether they would just agree to allow you

0:57:060:57:10

to take custody of Tommy and place him in the preserve?

0:57:100:57:13

-And if preserve's the wrong word, I apologise.

-Repeatedly.

0:57:130:57:16

We even said that we would drop this case

0:57:160:57:18

if the respondent agreed to move him to a sanctuary.

0:57:180:57:22

And only when we learned he didn't do that

0:57:220:57:24

and he was going to move him to someplace that was just about as bad as where he is now,

0:57:240:57:28

then we started the preliminary injunction which this court allowed.

0:57:280:57:32

So, can we safely assume that the role of this proceeding

0:57:320:57:36

-is to promote the wellbeing of the chimpanzee?

-No.

0:57:360:57:40

There's only one goal for the proceeding,

0:57:400:57:43

cos it's a common law habeas corpus proceeding

0:57:430:57:45

to discharge the chimpanzee if it's not unlawful.

0:57:450:57:49

So are you saying that you're not interested

0:57:490:57:51

in promoting the chimpanzee's wellbeing?

0:57:510:57:54

That is not the purpose of our suit.

0:57:540:57:56

Well, then maybe then the key here is a legislative lobbying activity

0:57:560:58:00

to ensure that the statutes are changed.

0:58:000:58:04

That is one option,

0:58:040:58:05

but the courts and the legislatures are co-equal branches here.

0:58:050:58:10

-Yes, we're well aware of that.

-I'm sure you are.

0:58:100:58:12

This...this reminds me, for example,

0:58:120:58:14

of the arguments that were brought up

0:58:140:58:16

in the famous Somerset versus Stewart case,

0:58:160:58:18

which is part of New York common law,

0:58:180:58:19

where a slave was made free

0:58:190:58:21

and Lord Mansfield understood that he had a judicial duty,

0:58:210:58:25

as this court does have a judicial duty to change the common law.

0:58:250:58:28

I have to tell you, I keep having a difficult time

0:58:280:58:33

with your using slavery as an analogy to this situation.

0:58:330:58:37

-I just have to tell you that.

-Let me suggest this -

0:58:370:58:42

that by referring to human slavery,

0:58:420:58:45

-we are in no way comparing Tommy to any...

-I understand.

0:58:450:58:47

But my suggestion is you move in a different direction

0:58:470:58:50

-for the next two minutes.

-OK.

0:58:500:58:51

The abilities of self-determination and autonomy

0:58:510:58:55

are supreme values within the common law.

0:58:550:58:57

And these are also the same values

0:58:570:58:59

that the writ of habeas corpus was constructed over the centuries to protect.

0:58:590:59:04

And we ask this court to not necessarily find that Tommy is a person,

0:59:040:59:08

but assuming, as Lord Mansfield did,

0:59:080:59:10

without deciding that Tommy could be a person,

0:59:100:59:13

remanding to the court with an order to show cause and then proceed in accordance with Article 70.

0:59:130:59:18

-Thank you, Counsel.

-Thank you, Your Honours.

0:59:180:59:21

APPLAUSE

0:59:280:59:31

We were exceedingly happy with the way the oral argument went.

0:59:340:59:37

We thought the judges had clearly read the brief,

0:59:370:59:40

were familiar with our record.

0:59:400:59:42

They asked really intelligent, probing questions.

0:59:420:59:45

-WOMAN:

-You compared Tommy's condition to slavery -

0:59:450:59:48

-tell me why that is.

-Well, Tommy is a legal thing right now.

0:59:480:59:52

And while the courts sometimes don't like us

0:59:520:59:55

to compare the thinghood of Tommy with the thinghood of a human slave,

0:59:550:59:59

we apologise and say the only reason we do that

0:59:591:00:03

is because Tommy has a right to get out

1:00:031:00:05

of being held for his entire life in solitary confinement in a cage.

1:00:051:00:10

Chimpanzees should have the sort of rights

1:00:131:00:16

that go along with the sort of being that they are.

1:00:161:00:19

They clearly are never going to be able to vote,

1:00:191:00:21

they're never going to be able to marry.

1:00:211:00:23

I think a rule of thumb would be,

1:00:231:00:25

the sort of rights that, say, a human five-year-old should have.

1:00:251:00:29

Where do you draw the line?

1:00:291:00:31

Could you ever imagine a day when it's regarded as illegal

1:00:311:00:35

to kill and eat a cow, for example,

1:00:351:00:37

because that cow is a sentient animal?

1:00:371:00:39

I can imagine almost anything,

1:00:391:00:41

but I don't know whether that day will come and if so, you know, when.

1:00:411:00:46

It'll be probably my great-great-great grandchildren.

1:00:461:00:49

Do you regard yourself as making step number one towards that?

1:00:491:00:52

We are intentionally making it step one.

1:00:521:00:55

Please welcome Steven Wise!

1:00:551:00:57

CHEERING

1:00:571:00:59

This case is just the beginning.

1:00:591:01:01

Then my dog can sue to get on my couch.

1:01:011:01:04

LAUGHTER

1:01:041:01:06

I didn't say your dog, I said your chimpanzee.

1:01:061:01:09

-What do you have against my dog?

-LAUGHTER

1:01:091:01:11

I'll give you my card, you give the card to your dog.

1:01:111:01:14

LAUGHTER

1:01:141:01:15

Listen, if Tommy wants to have rights...

1:01:181:01:20

CHEERING

1:01:201:01:21

If Tommy wants to have rights as a person,

1:01:211:01:24

-he should form his own corporation.

-LAUGHTER

1:01:241:01:26

-CHEERING

-Thank you so much.

1:01:261:01:29

-What time is it now?

-10:23.

-Oh, boy!

1:01:451:01:48

HE HUMS

1:01:481:01:50

I...I still think that the fact that it has taken them eight weeks -

1:01:531:01:57

correct? - this is eight weeks?

1:01:571:01:59

It's a long time. They have to come up with something better than, "This is something for the legislature."

1:01:591:02:05

-Mm-hm.

-I think that they are going to have a discussion of personhood.

1:02:051:02:10

-I really do.

-I hope so.

1:02:101:02:12

I think they will.

1:02:121:02:14

-Oh, here we go.

-Is it there?

-Yep, it's here.

-Ahh!

-OK.

1:02:171:02:21

-Let's go.

-I'm shaking. I'm, like, actually shaking.

1:02:211:02:25

"The subject of this litigation is a chimpanzee known as Tommy

1:02:251:02:28

"that is presently being kept

1:02:281:02:30

"in the city of Gloversville, Fulton County.

1:02:301:02:32

"This appeal presents the novel question

1:02:321:02:34

"of whether a chimpanzee is a person entitled to the rights

1:02:341:02:37

-"and protections afforded by the writ of habeas corpus."

-OK.

1:02:371:02:41

"Needless to say, unlike human beings,

1:02:411:02:43

"chimpanzees cannot bear any legal duties,

1:02:431:02:45

"submit to societal responsibilities

1:02:451:02:47

"or be held legally accountable for their actions.

1:02:471:02:50

"In our view, it is this incapability to bear any legal responsibilities

1:02:501:02:54

"and societal duties that renders it inappropriate to confer upon chimpanzees the legal rights..."

1:02:541:02:59

Oh! I never thought

1:02:591:03:01

-that their decision would rest on duties.

-Reciprocal...

-Never!

1:03:011:03:05

-Did we talk about this argument?

-Yes!

1:03:051:03:08

-We talked about...

-How you can have an incompetent, you can have a child,

1:03:081:03:11

they don't have...there's no reciprocity of duties and obligations.

1:03:111:03:15

-So are they saying that an infant...?

-I know.

1:03:151:03:18

-I'm saying the implications...

-Or a handicapped person, or a person who's insane?

-I know.

1:03:181:03:22

"To be sure, some humans are less able to bear legal duties or responsibilities than others.

1:03:221:03:26

"These differences do not alter our analysis,

1:03:261:03:29

"as it is undeniable that collectively human beings possess

1:03:291:03:32

"the unique ability to bear legal responsibility."

1:03:321:03:35

-Is that it?

-That's it.

1:03:351:03:38

OK.

1:03:381:03:41

-Wow!

-So, basically, they're ruling against Tommy because of his species.

-Yeah.

1:03:411:03:46

It's a very philosophically conservative way of saying

1:03:461:03:49

because animals can't enter into contracts especially,

1:03:491:03:52

essentially you can make them slaves for their whole lives.

1:03:521:03:55

-Right. This is a bad, bad, bad decision.

-That's right.

1:03:551:04:01

-WOMAN:

-'In the first case of its kind,

1:04:061:04:08

'a New York appeals court has rejected

1:04:081:04:11

'an animal rights advocate's bid

1:04:111:04:13

'to extend legal personhood to chimpanzees.'

1:04:131:04:16

-WOMAN:

-'Judges in the appeal

1:04:161:04:18

'wrote that since chimpanzees have no legal responsibility for their actions,

1:04:181:04:22

'they can't be granted the same rights as people.'

1:04:221:04:25

-MAN:

-'Meanwhile, the Nonhuman Rights Project

1:04:261:04:28

'continues its legal challenge on behalf of Kiko,

1:04:281:04:31

'a 26-year-old chimp currently residing in Niagara Falls,

1:04:311:04:33

'New York.'

1:04:331:04:35

GAVEL BANGS

1:04:351:04:37

-WOMAN:

-Can I ask you a question?

1:04:371:04:38

If Kiko were to be let out of where Kiko is currently being held,

1:04:381:04:43

you're not asking that Kiko go out in the street,

1:04:431:04:46

you're saying that Kiko would still be confined, but in a sanctuary?

1:04:461:04:51

That is correct. Kiko would go to Save The Chimps,

1:04:511:04:55

which is a sanctuary with islands in a lake.

1:04:551:04:58

But he's still going from one confinement which is bad to another confinement which is better?

1:04:581:05:02

Much, much better. And his autonomy and his ability to self-determine

1:05:021:05:07

will be allowed to flourish in a way that it's not allowed to flourish now.

1:05:071:05:11

So Kiko's case was even more interesting.

1:05:131:05:16

What happened there is that the judges decided

1:05:161:05:19

that you can't use a writ of habeas corpus to move

1:05:191:05:21

from one place of confinement to another place

1:05:211:05:25

of...not entire freedom.

1:05:251:05:26

But we had pointed out to them that children, apprentices,

1:05:261:05:30

people with mental disorders,

1:05:301:05:32

there were a dozen or more cases

1:05:321:05:34

in the state of New York where, subject to writs of habeas corpus,

1:05:341:05:37

they weren't just thrown out on the street -

1:05:371:05:39

they were put under the protection of an adult.

1:05:391:05:42

In other words, we didn't lose because Kiko was a chimpanzee -

1:05:421:05:45

their holding also applies to human beings.

1:05:451:05:49

So while we're trying to expand the writ of habeas corpus to chimpanzees,

1:05:491:05:53

the court responds by cutting it back for humans.

1:05:531:05:56

That was not what we were trying to do.

1:05:561:05:58

These decisions so far, we think that both of them

1:06:011:06:04

were legally wrong and are kind of obviously legally wrong.

1:06:041:06:08

They truly don't yet grasp what we're trying to do.

1:06:081:06:12

And clearly there's no agreed-upon reason why we should lose.

1:06:121:06:17

But what we're concerned about is that these judges

1:06:251:06:27

were either consciously or unconsciously thinking,

1:06:271:06:30

"If they're not human, they're not going to have rights."

1:06:301:06:33

And so what they've done

1:06:331:06:35

is they've tried to find some other reason for us to lose.

1:06:351:06:39

That's a frightening thing for an advocate to feel,

1:06:411:06:43

that you're up against someone who either consciously or unconsciously

1:06:431:06:46

believes that there's nothing I can tell them that's ever going to cause them to rule in my favour.

1:06:461:06:51

DOG BARKS

1:07:071:07:08

Let me see.

1:07:131:07:14

TV PLAYS

1:07:221:07:24

-WOMAN:

-'Oh, this is the part where he's going off to school.

1:07:311:07:35

'She's turning her back. This is a sad scene.

1:07:361:07:39

'And they all kiss him and kiss him goodbye.

1:07:391:07:42

'Oh, honey, it's sad. I know it's a sad scene.

1:07:511:07:54

'Oh, hon, they're crying. They are crying on the movie.

1:07:541:07:57

'Oh, honey. And there's trouble. Sad trouble. Bad.

1:07:571:08:01

'Oh, sweetie, with the mother, yes. The sweet mother.

1:08:011:08:05

'The one who adopted him.

1:08:051:08:07

'Well, I know, it's sad.'

1:08:071:08:08

'These animals, they are extraordinary.

1:08:081:08:11

'And I feel a moral responsibility to try to allow them

1:08:111:08:14

'to live their lives the way I can live my life.

1:08:141:08:18

'And so we just refiled Hercules and Leo,

1:08:201:08:23

'because one of the beauties of writs of habeas corpus

1:08:231:08:26

'is that because they're protecting fundamental bodily liberty,

1:08:261:08:29

'they allow you to file again and again and again.

1:08:291:08:33

'And so now we're looking for judges

1:08:371:08:39

'who are willing to all of a sudden see our plaintiff in a different light.

1:08:391:08:44

'And we think that they're out there.'

1:08:441:08:46

-MAN:

-'For the first time in history,

1:08:541:08:56

'a judge has recognised animals as legal persons.

1:08:561:08:59

'New York Supreme Court Justice Barbara Jaffe

1:08:591:09:02

'decreed two chimpanzees held in a research lab

1:09:021:09:04

'at Stony Brook University are covered by a writ of habeas corpus.'

1:09:041:09:08

-WOMAN:

-'The Nonhuman Rights Project

1:09:081:09:10

'has been granted a writ of habeas corpus

1:09:101:09:12

'requiring the State University of New York

1:09:121:09:15

'to defend its right to keep the primates Hercules and Leo.'

1:09:151:09:19

'The lawsuit was originally filed back in 2013,

1:09:191:09:21

'but was quickly thrown out.

1:09:211:09:24

'The group has been appealing ever since

1:09:241:09:26

'and their tireless efforts seem to have paid off.

1:09:261:09:28

'The animal rights group said by granting the writ,

1:09:281:09:31

'the judge implicitly acknowledges apes are persons.

1:09:311:09:34

'Clearly, she's hoping to receive preferential treatment

1:09:341:09:38

'when they take over.'

1:09:381:09:40

It's a mad house!

1:09:401:09:42

'A few hours ago, I opened up my e-mail

1:09:501:09:53

'and it said Judge Jaffe in the Supreme Court in Manhattan

1:09:531:09:56

'did issue the writ of habeas corpus.'

1:09:561:09:59

And the first.. HE LAUGHS

1:09:591:10:01

The first thing I did is try to remember what date it was

1:10:011:10:05

in case it was April Fools' Day.

1:10:051:10:07

I thought that maybe Liddy was tormenting me

1:10:071:10:09

by sending me a fake e-mail.

1:10:091:10:10

And even then I didn't believe her until she sent me the actual order.

1:10:101:10:15

So I said, "OK, I believe you, it happened."

1:10:151:10:17

And I started... Actually, I started crying.

1:10:171:10:20

And then I said, "OK, I'll let myself cry for 20 seconds

1:10:201:10:23

"and now we've got a lot of work to do."

1:10:231:10:25

It's amazing.

1:10:271:10:28

More on Hercules and Leo. It's crazy.

1:10:281:10:33

The New York Supreme Court Justice

1:10:331:10:35

ordered a Stony Brook University representative to appear in court

1:10:351:10:38

in May to respond to the petition.

1:10:381:10:40

Stony Brook told us,

1:10:401:10:41

"Stony Brook University is unable to comment on the referenced lawsuit."

1:10:411:10:45

Stony Brook is freaking out for sure.

1:10:491:10:51

OK, now, let's see.

1:11:051:11:08

This could be a problem.

1:11:091:11:11

So, Steve, I got an e-mail from the judge

1:11:111:11:14

saying that we put out something

1:11:141:11:17

in OUR press statement that was misleading.

1:11:171:11:21

What do you think that was?

1:11:211:11:22

The recognition of personhood

1:11:221:11:24

because we probably should have said "may be persons".

1:11:241:11:27

OK. So, how are we going to do this? What are we going to say, then?

1:11:291:11:32

Because if the judge is peeved at all, we don't want to upset her.

1:11:321:11:35

Absolutely.

1:11:351:11:36

And this is why we're saying, does she really know what

1:11:361:11:39

she has done here? Obviously she didn't.

1:11:391:11:43

Yesterday afternoon, Liddy got an e-mail claiming that the judge,

1:11:451:11:49

on reconsideration,

1:11:491:11:51

hadn't intended to treat Hercules and Leo as persons.

1:11:511:11:54

So what the judge had done was simply strike out the words

1:11:561:12:00

"and writ of habeas corpus" from the original order

1:12:001:12:03

to show cause and writ of habeas corpus.

1:12:031:12:06

But from a legal point of view, there was no difference.

1:12:071:12:10

All the Nonhuman Rights Project wants is Stony Brook

1:12:101:12:13

to come into court and defend their imprisonment of Hercules and Leo.

1:12:131:12:19

-Are you there, Liddy?

-I'm here.

1:12:321:12:34

-OK, I'm checking it now.

-OK.

1:12:341:12:38

How about their argument that Lavery

1:12:391:12:41

is binding upon them in New York County?

1:12:411:12:44

-I didn't get to that. What page?

-That's on page 13.

1:12:441:12:47

Let me take a look at the cases that they've cited here.

1:12:471:12:51

"Trial courts within this department must follow the determination

1:12:511:12:54

"of the Appellate Division..."

1:12:541:12:57

OK, that's of concern.

1:12:571:12:59

That would mean we would lose on Wednesday

1:13:011:13:03

because Judge Jaffe is going to feel bound to rule against us

1:13:031:13:08

simply based on what the Tommy court and the Kiko court did.

1:13:081:13:11

That's going to be tough to get around.

1:13:131:13:15

Whoa!

1:13:321:13:33

It's the 50lbs of files.

1:13:341:13:36

What we've been expecting is that the Attorney General's

1:13:381:13:41

going to be trying to throw up procedural obstacles,

1:13:411:13:44

roadblocks so that we never actually get to the issue of personhood.

1:13:441:13:47

But I think the Attorney General will be

1:13:561:13:57

confronted with an opponent who is very much more prepared than he is.

1:13:571:14:02

Good morning and welcome.

1:14:051:14:07

We are here for oral argument by the lawyers in this case

1:14:071:14:12

and only they have permission to speak.

1:14:121:14:14

I thus sign the order in anticipation of hearing

1:14:141:14:18

both sides address the procedural and substantive issues raised.

1:14:181:14:23

First, I want to bring to the attention of the court

1:14:231:14:28

that my brother was...

1:14:281:14:30

In Massachusetts, we call the other lawyer "brother" and "sister"

1:14:301:14:32

and sometimes judges don't know what I'm talking about,

1:14:321:14:35

so if it's all right, I'll just refer to him as "my brother".

1:14:351:14:38

Hearing no objection?

1:14:381:14:40

-No, ma'am, I do not object.

-OK.

1:14:401:14:41

I've never had a brother.

1:14:411:14:43

So, without the Appellate Division decisions, Mr Wise...

1:14:431:14:47

Yes, we do have something to say about that.

1:14:471:14:50

Yes, I think you have to address it.

1:14:501:14:52

Aren't I bound?

1:14:521:14:54

My brother argues that the Lavery and Presti cases

1:14:541:14:58

are binding upon this court.

1:14:581:15:00

Now, the State versus Moore case

1:15:001:15:03

states that an appellate determination

1:15:031:15:06

is binding only if it involves

1:15:061:15:09

"settled principles of law and legal issues".

1:15:091:15:12

But the case is indeed ongoing

1:15:121:15:15

and we believe that it is reasonably likely

1:15:151:15:18

that the Court of Appeals will indeed

1:15:181:15:20

take further review of the Lavery case.

1:15:201:15:22

Thank you. We'll turn now to the issue of personhood. Mr Coulston.

1:15:221:15:26

Your Honour, there is simply no precedent

1:15:261:15:29

ANYWHERE of a nonhuman animal

1:15:291:15:32

receiving the kinds of rights they're talking about.

1:15:321:15:35

The exceptions that do exist,

1:15:351:15:37

to legal personhood being assigned to something that's not human,

1:15:371:15:40

in every instance that they've cited,

1:15:401:15:43

it's something that in some way relates to human interests,

1:15:431:15:45

whether it's a corporation, whether a ship is treated as a legal person.

1:15:451:15:49

We think that really is the principle

1:15:491:15:50

that's governing the assignment of legal personhood.

1:15:501:15:53

We think that's what the Lavery court said

1:15:531:15:55

and we think that's the law, Your Honour,

1:15:551:15:57

and we don't know of any exceptions otherwise

1:15:571:15:59

and the petitioner hasn't cited any.

1:15:591:16:01

OK, thank you. Mr Wise?

1:16:011:16:04

Your Honour, to say that no nonhuman animal

1:16:041:16:07

has ever been the recipient of a writ of habeas corpus, well,

1:16:071:16:12

until the Nonhuman Rights Project had begun filing these suits,

1:16:121:16:15

no-one had ever asked and the entire hearing has to be looked at

1:16:151:16:19

in the context of extraordinary purpose of a writ of habeas corpus.

1:16:191:16:24

It is the most important writ in the arsenal of writs

1:16:241:16:29

that are in the Anglo-Saxon heritage.

1:16:291:16:31

It's not called the Great Writ - capital G, capital W - for nothing

1:16:311:16:35

and the very purpose is to protect

1:16:351:16:37

autonomous and self-determining beings.

1:16:371:16:40

But science has shown us over the last 50 years,

1:16:401:16:43

especially over the last 20,

1:16:431:16:45

that there are more autonomous beings in this world

1:16:451:16:48

than just human beings.

1:16:481:16:50

Chimpanzees are not governed by instinct.

1:16:501:16:53

They are self-conscious, they have a theory of mind,

1:16:531:16:57

they can understand what others are thinking.

1:16:571:16:59

They understand that they are individuals,

1:16:591:17:01

that their lives mean something to them,

1:17:011:17:04

which is one of the reasons why imprisoning a chimpanzee

1:17:041:17:08

is at least as bad and maybe even worse

1:17:081:17:10

than imprisoning a human being

1:17:101:17:12

because chimpanzees who are in prison

1:17:121:17:14

and essentially being exploited by Stony Brook now,

1:17:141:17:19

that they are...

1:17:191:17:22

They don't even know why they're there.

1:17:221:17:24

These are the sort of things

1:17:241:17:26

that we would only do to our worst criminals amongst us

1:17:261:17:29

and one thing I want to make clear is that our argument is limited,

1:17:291:17:33

extremely limited, to the argument that Hercules and Leo,

1:17:331:17:38

these chimpanzees, should be persons

1:17:381:17:41

solely for the purpose of a common law writ of habeas corpus.

1:17:411:17:45

Thank you.

1:17:451:17:46

Understanding what Mr Wise refers to as the Great Writ

1:17:461:17:50

and what it means to us

1:17:501:17:51

and I think another judge of this court many years ago

1:17:511:17:55

referred to it as a "powerful and broad tool

1:17:551:17:58

"subject to expansive interpretation"

1:17:581:18:02

and our understanding that the law evolves

1:18:021:18:06

according to scientific discovery, social mores -

1:18:061:18:09

witness marital rights -

1:18:091:18:11

isn't it incumbent upon the judiciary to at least consider

1:18:111:18:16

whether a class of beings may be granted a right

1:18:161:18:21

or something short of a right under the habeas statute,

1:18:211:18:26

some kind of special status?

1:18:261:18:29

Thus why can't a chimpanzee, by virtue of the traits documented

1:18:291:18:34

in petitioner's exhibits, be deemed a person for the sole purposes

1:18:341:18:41

Mr Wise says, of permitting the writ to the very limited extent sought?

1:18:411:18:47

Why isn't that an appropriate use of this Great Writ?

1:18:471:18:51

Your Honour, what has been diminished all along

1:18:531:18:56

in this proceeding is how different it is, what they're actually trying

1:18:561:19:00

to do, how the similarities that they paint -

1:19:001:19:03

you can talk about 99% of DNA

1:19:031:19:06

and other aspects that create similarities -

1:19:061:19:09

but the reality is that these are fundamentally different species.

1:19:091:19:12

I worry about the diminishment of these rights in some way

1:19:121:19:16

if we expand them beyond human beings.

1:19:161:19:19

I also think courts are simply just not going to be equipped

1:19:191:19:23

to determine where this new line is going to be

1:19:231:19:26

for these vague categories

1:19:261:19:27

that, yes, they've given them some scientific heft,

1:19:271:19:30

but autonomy and self-determining?

1:19:301:19:32

This just becomes a question of where are we going.

1:19:321:19:35

You absolutely are opening the possible floodgates

1:19:351:19:37

and it is a Great Writ, but it's been a Great Writ for human beings.

1:19:371:19:40

I think it should stay there

1:19:401:19:42

and I think the ramifications are ones

1:19:421:19:44

that we can't always foresee and could have a dramatic effect

1:19:441:19:47

not only on our understanding of how important these rights are

1:19:471:19:51

to human beings, but in applications that could

1:19:511:19:54

affect our society in a negative way.

1:19:541:19:57

Thank you.

1:19:581:19:59

VOICES CLAMOUR

1:20:031:20:06

Mr Wise, how did it go?

1:20:061:20:08

If you define a good hearing as one in which

1:20:081:20:10

the judge asks a lot of questions and is clearly giving both sides

1:20:101:20:13

a fair and comprehensive listen, I thought it went great.

1:20:131:20:17

What happens now?

1:20:171:20:19

I believe the judge is going to take it under advisement

1:20:191:20:21

and, sometime in the next month or two, we should have a decision.

1:20:211:20:25

Steven, quick question.

1:20:251:20:26

How significant is the fact that this hearing today even took place?

1:20:261:20:30

It is highly significant

1:20:301:20:32

because a writ of habeas corpus hearing for a nonhuman animal

1:20:321:20:36

is being held in the same way it would be for a human being,

1:20:361:20:39

so we are now being treated

1:20:391:20:41

like all the other autonomous beings of this world.

1:20:411:20:44

So, is this a partial victory?

1:20:441:20:46

It's a partial victory just standing here, yes. Yes.

1:20:461:20:50

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

1:20:501:20:52

Is this a race down to see who gets down first?

1:20:551:20:58

'Judges are kind of a conservative bunch,

1:20:581:21:00

'they don't want to get too far ahead of the rest of society,

1:21:001:21:04

'but these judges don't quite realise how much society has moved.'

1:21:041:21:09

The boundary between human and animal intelligence

1:21:101:21:14

is much narrower than we thought.

1:21:141:21:16

Scientists who study them

1:21:161:21:17

say there is a lot more happening there than just play,

1:21:171:21:20

that their intelligence actually rivals ours.

1:21:201:21:24

Elephants are certainly

1:21:241:21:25

one of the most intelligent species in the animal kingdom.

1:21:251:21:28

The more we learn about elephant cognition,

1:21:281:21:30

the more we learn about the evolution of behaviour

1:21:301:21:33

and intelligence in general.

1:21:331:21:35

Wow, this is a hell of a story!

1:21:381:21:41

A recent poll finds one third of Americans thinks animals

1:21:411:21:43

-should have the same rights as people.

-Interesting.

1:21:431:21:45

Across all demographic groups,

1:21:451:21:47

an increasing fraction of people support equal rights for animals.

1:21:471:21:50

-Wow.

-They say if we can do it for corporations,

1:21:501:21:52

then there's no reason why, essentially,

1:21:521:21:54

-a living being couldn't be considered a person.

-Oh, really?

1:21:541:21:57

Oh, my God! When we weren't looking, we moved into the mainstream!

1:21:571:22:01

-Holy smokes!

-THEY LAUGH

1:22:011:22:04

'We are on the cusp of a tide.

1:22:131:22:16

'People are really interested in what we have to say

1:22:161:22:19

'and I think we've had a huge success already,

1:22:191:22:22

'in kind of elevating the idea

1:22:221:22:25

'that you can bring a court case like this

1:22:251:22:27

'and do it in a really serious way.

1:22:271:22:28

'It's not being treated as something strange or a weird,

1:22:281:22:32

'it's being treated as a regular court case.'

1:22:321:22:34

And the Nonhuman Rights Project

1:22:371:22:38

has begun to work with legal groups around the world -

1:22:381:22:41

in Australia, in England, in France, in Argentina -

1:22:411:22:44

trying to get them to do similar things in their countries,

1:22:441:22:49

because these same tides of liberty, freedom and equality

1:22:491:22:52

are rolling through those countries,

1:22:521:22:54

just like they're rolling through ours

1:22:541:22:56

and they have been for centuries.

1:22:561:22:57

A female orang-utan

1:22:571:22:58

incarcerated in an Argentinian zoo for more than 20 years

1:22:581:23:03

has been granted some legal rights enjoyed by humans.

1:23:031:23:06

The case rested on whether the court decided

1:23:061:23:08

the orang-utan was a person or a thing.

1:23:081:23:12

This isn't a static issue.

1:23:121:23:14

'We view our lawsuits as really a dialogue between us and the judges

1:23:141:23:19

'and we think that there is going to be an evolution of that dialogue.'

1:23:191:23:25

In fact, there already has been.

1:23:251:23:27

Winston Churchill gave a speech in 1942,

1:24:071:24:11

telling the English people it's not the end

1:24:111:24:14

and it's not even the beginning of the end,

1:24:141:24:16

but it is the end of the beginning.

1:24:161:24:18

And that's what I tell people our suits are about -

1:24:211:24:24

the end of the beginning.

1:24:241:24:26

CAGE DOOR CREAKS

1:24:441:24:47

HUBBUB OF VOICES AND FAIRGROUND MUSIC

1:24:471:24:51

# I see my life come shining

1:25:151:25:18

# From the west down to the east

1:25:211:25:25

# Any day now, any day now

1:25:281:25:35

# I shall be released. #

1:25:351:25:38

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