Sue Johnston A Taste of My Life

Welcome to the show that serves up famous lives on a plate.

Food is one of the most evocative ways to tell the story of one's life.

What we once ate can tell us an awful lot about who we were.

So what better reason to take another special guest on a culinary trip back in time?

Now, today's very familiar face first found success

in the massively successful soap opera Brookside.

-What's happened?

-My son's gone off his head, that's what's happened.

I was told you had a gun.

I didn't believe it until I saw it. Now get rid of it!

She's appeared in countless movies and TV dramas,

but again hit the big-time with the cult TV hit The Royle Family.

Well, tell him if he thinks more of his remote control

than he does of his own family,

he needn't bother coming back!

More recently, she's tackled the role of a criminal psychologist in Waking The Dead.

He kicked her after she died. He posed her.

-He's angry.

-It wasn't personal. They interviewed everybody she ever knew.

He's angry about something else.

Yes, today's guest is the much-loved actress Sue Johnston.

Coming up in today's show,

Sue Johnston remembers her musical youth in The Cavern in Liverpool

and eating lemon meringues.

I could see no further than the music at The Cavern. ..Oooh!

That was absolutely heaven.

Actress and friend Maggie Steed takes Sue back to the 1970s with a mushroom risotto.

I forgot to put my apron on.

And Liverpool Football Club's Jamie Carragher issues us with a culinary challenge.

-Sue Johnston, welcome to A Taste Of My Life.

-Thank you for asking me.

-Is it right, you were born in Liverpool?

-I was born in Warrington,

-but raised in Whiston, which is a woolly-back area.

-"Woolly-back"?

Yeah, that's what Scousers call you if you're about six miles out of the city centre. Woolly-back - sheep.

What sort of little girl were you?

I was quite bright until I was about 15.

Then things started to go a bit wrong.

-You suddenly discover boys, and then I...

-You got distracted.

Distracted. That's a better way of putting it!

What were family meals like?

Breakfast, my dad used to cook. There was always a chip pan.

-It used to set, I remember...

-Yeah.

And then they'd use that for frying bacon and eggs.

-How am I still alive?! Scouse was a great dish.

-Tell me about scouse.

Scouse is like a... It's similar to a Lancashire stew,

but it's scouse - a Liverpool dish.

Scouse comes from the Norwegian word "lobscouse", meaning meat stew.

Traditionally, it's made with beef, lamb or mutton.

It's just sort of cheap cuts of lamb and potato, carrots, swede or turnip.

Throw in whatever root vegetables you can lay your hands on.

When using cheap cuts of meat, add salt towards the end of cooking to stop the meat toughening.

And then, if they hadn't got enough meat, they would fill it out with dumplings.

And the wonderful gravy that came off it. To me, it's just the joy

-of potatoes, the comfort...

-Exactly. It's pure comfort food.

Give me dumplings and some gravy

-or juice from a stew and I'm the happiest man alive.

-Mmm.

Making dumplings is like making scones.

They're a good substitute for bread, rice or potatoes.

Too much liquid or flour, though, will give a heavy result. Leave some space around them,

as they will expand.

Your stew should be trembling

with occasional bubbles before putting in your dumplings.

Of mum's cooking,

were there any things that were absolute favourites?

I think her jam fritters.

-Jam fritters?

-Mmm.

You have to remember, this is still just after the war.

-They would use the stale bread and make a jam sandwich...

-OK.

And then batter it like a fish and fry it.

-Sort of like eggy bread, but with jam in it.

-Yeah.

My sort of food, actually.

It must have made an impact because I remember it so well.

Jam fritters are a product of the rationed post-war years.

And proved to be a quick, cheap and convenient way to keep kids happy.

This dish is no more or less than the sum of its sticky parts.

Though you could try replacing the jam with chocolate spread, or bananas, or both.

Looks fantastic.

-Would you like some of that?

-Yes, please. Just the one dumpling!

-Was this the sort of thing that mum would make?

-Yes, regularly.

On a pretty regular basis.

-Mm.

-Good, isn't it?

Did I read that you described your relationship with your mum

as a battling relationship?

There was always a brittleness

and I think that was because my mum didn't feel,

she didn't know how to slot into my world.

She used to say, "I wish you had married someone around the corner

"and just had your kids", like my cousin did. Locally.

Lived locally and had grandchildren.

I grew up with the impression I wasn't good enough.

Once I grew up and went away we argued and fought,

she didn't like how I dressed.

I came home as a student in faded jeans

when they just came in with ripped holes in.

She was horrified. Horrified.

It was sort of her despair -

"You've never looked decent since I stopped dressing you".

That was her mantra until the day she died.

She said, the day before she died, she said, "Have you come like that?"

-Sue, would you like a jam fritter?

-Well, if I must.

Mmm. Mm!

-It is delicious.

-It is gorgeous.

So, Sue, tell me, were you, sort of, the rebellious teenager?

I did stay on until the 6th form

and then I left because I got into the Beatles,

were happening at The Cavern.

It was sort of the end of my education.

I could see no further than the music at The Cavern.

My mother used to say I stank of The Cavern. I did, it was very smelly.

Sweat off the walls. There was no alcohol.

-Oh, really?

-Yeah, yeah, cups of tea and Cilla behind the cloakroom.

Food, I cannot remember.

I can't remember what I ate as a teenager, to be honest.

I can remember, actually, because I worked in the tax office.

-You were a tax inspector?

-I was a tax officer, higher grade.

I used to go to Blacklers Department Store

and have just lemon meringue pie.

But that's all I would have for my lunch.

When making the pastry base, chill your butter in the fridge.

Shortcrust is the basic pastry used in European kitchens

and is made by simply rubbing your fingertips together.

If you don't have pastry beans

use lentils to bake the base blind without its filling.

This stops it from bubbling up.

It was so delicious, the base,

and then you had this wonderful lemony solid consistency.

And my mum used to make it and my gran used to make it,

my aunties used to make it.

When I left home, I used to buy it in packets.

-That's right, you used to...

-You could get...

-I think that was my first introduction to it.

-Was it?

It's the sharpness of the lemon filling

that contrasts beautifully with the very sweet meringue.

The texture of this mixture is key.

It mustn't be too stiff, nor too runny.

You could spot a really good one.

You could judge a restaurant by its lemon meringue pie.

It would have that zest in the lemon.

When making the meringue,

ensure both the bowl and the whisk are absolutely spotless.

I had to steal the recipe from my stepmother because she wouldn't give it to me.

So I used to walk through the kitchen when I knew she was making it

and count how many eggshells were in the bin

and see how much butter was missing from the packet,

and slowly put the whole thing together.

But I've never got it as good as she did.

Life must have been quite fun at that time.

It was funny because I did have a boyfriend who was in a band.

-The Swinging Blue Jeans.

-I know the Swinging Blue Jeans.

-Hippie Hippie Shake!

His mum used to cook using tinned salmon.

OK, a no-frills dish this one.

But I find tinned salmon is a great ingredient when making fish cakes.

It made me feel quite ill when I knew what she was doing.

Hot tinned salmon and she made it with mashed potatoes

and covered it in parsley sauce.

I adored it.

I'd rather have the tinned.

Somebody's sniggering in the background.

Nobody's sniggering.

-I like it.

-Do you know what, I don't care.

To me, it goes with memories of those, sort of, Sunday teas

where there was always a cake.

And there's a big thing about whether it was...

-Pink or red.

-Pink or red, exactly.

But if you fancy the real McCoy,

a simply dressed salmon is easy to prepare.

I must say, I've got a lovely fishmonger by me.

And sometimes just seeing these beautiful whole salmon on his slab.

And it is a joy. You can see why it's called the king of fish.

Once you've selected your herbs

and wrapped him up with a drizzle of wine,

pop him in the oven.

To test if the whole salmon is cooked, press behind the head.

Springy means it's uncooked, flaky means it's ready.

It's just exactly as it was served up.

You just get this wonderful, wonderful taste.

-Peas go in as well?

-Everything.

-It's yummy.

-Mm.

Really, you had quite a steady job at that point, didn't you?

That's when I was in the tax office.

The sort of thing mum and dad would actually have been quite happy with?

They loved it, yeah.

I gave up that to go and work for Brian Epstein.

I'd never done anything to upset them before or go against them.

This was, you know, I wanted to be part of this music scene...

He was the manager of the Beatles.

Didn't he manage Gerry and the Pacemakers as well?

And The Searchers, The Big Three.

We used to - it's giving trade secrets away -

but the list for autographs was so enormous

and they were aware they couldn't possibly do them,

so we had them on a roller and would just go...

Photograph, sit there all day rollering out their autographs.

I'll probably get sued now.

Well you can't, because it's the truth.

It must have been a very, very different world

from the safe background that mum and dad had.

And those dirty Beatles, my mother said.

They went away and Paul had actually been to our house.

And by mother said, "Has that dirty Beatle been in my house?"

She thought they were the scruffiest thing she'd ever seen in her life.

Ooh!

That is absolutely heaven.

Still to come on A Taste Of My life,

Liverpool striker, Jamie Carragher, throws us into the kitchen

to make a pasta dish.

Friend and actress, Margot Lester,

makes a no-frills fishfinger dish for Sue.

I am now going to pour... Oh, this is really awful.

Poor Sue not being here to eat this.

And Sue Johnston recalls coping with fame when acting in Brookside.

Because I was in a soap, I then met other actors

and I'd be like, "Oh, there's Betty Turpin!"

And at 21 she set off for drama school in London.

It was the heady Seventies and mum and dad weren't keen.

My dad and my family, nobody in the theatre.

I think my dad associated it with prostitution if you went to London.

Were these good times?

Fantastic, yeah. Really so amazingly different.

My life just spun round.

I'm going to take you on a little trip down memory lane, if I may.

Oh, my gosh. OK.

Where's my...? Where's my, erm...?

Where's my frying pan gone?

Well, I'm going to make Sue

a mushroom risotto.

It's an easy thing to make.

We used to have quite a lot of things like this back in the Seventies.

And, um, we shared a flat.

Wait a minute. Look!

I forgot to put my apron on.

I mainly remember that we used to spend afternoons out in the back garden.

Which was a very big back garden.

We just used to lie on the grass.

The grass used to just get flattened

as more and more people lay on it in the afternoons,

and indeed the evenings, you know. And drinking retsina.

And also we had very similar political ideas

about the world and what's going on.

It was during the three-day week

and we used to have these meetings by candlelight.

We got completely taken up in this and very very afraid of it, really.

It was a very strange time.

These are dried mushrooms that I have put in hot water.

I don't know if she'll want me to say all this,

but then we started stockpiling in case of the revolution,

in case of the end of the world. People really...

She and her partner at the time stockpiled...

They had a room full of tinned food.

That word 'supportive' is so overused now you just want to go...

It really, really is.

In terribly, kind of, funny and ridiculous ways, you know.

We laugh and laugh and laugh. It's true.

Coriander and some mint.

And then your pour yourself a nice glass of white wine.

Great adventures this year, great adventures, great changes.

And all my love.

-So, you're not stockpiling food in the back room?

-No.

It was mostly dog food that we stockpiled as we had two dogs.

Oh, my God!

This is Maggie's risotto.

Maggie!

Mm! Thank you, Maggie.

Maggie, thank you, dear Maggie.

Having been a jobbing actor for twenty years,

Sue was finally discovered appearing

in a couple of episodes of Coronation Street.

She broke through to a wider audience as Sheila in Brookside.

So, I went from obscurity,

of 20 years working as an actor,

into suddenly being known on the street.

And I can remember Amanda Burton and I when we started at Brookside

and it hadn't gone out and we kept thinking,

"Do you think we'll be that famous

"we won't be able to go in changing rooms any more?"

Of course it does become impossible to go into a changing room

unless you want to be talked about.

"Look at the cellulite on that!" and all that.

Come on, let's get going before we change our minds.

-All right.

-See ya, love.

-Ta ra.

-See you, She.

-Bye, love.

Some people still call me Sheila.

But kids who could never have watched it call me Sheila.

I go to the match and I think they think that was my name.

And I went off to be an actor.

When they say, "Hey, Sheila, loved you in that Royle Family"

that they think that I am Shiela.

Because I was in a soap I then met other actors

at dos, and charity dos, and I've been like,

"Oh, God, there's Betty Turpin!"

Did you find that your tastes changed at all?

I remember being taken to The Ivy for the first time. You know, The Ivy!

And this friend of mine could get us a table.

This restaurant which sort of - "I'm a success, I'm in The Ivy"...

-Right table.

-And I order shepherd's pie!

-What's that about?

-I think it's enormous fun.

I also think it's quite reassuring as well.

Shepherd's pie is made with lamb,

whilst cottage pie is made with beef.

Traditionally leftover meat is used, but I'm using high grade lamb mince.

For a healthier option,

reduce the amount of meat and pile in carrots, or mushrooms.

And to fancify this dish, throw in some red wine and Worcester sauce.

Every time I go, I have it. It's pathetic.

If you've been busy,

if you've been sat in front of a camera all day,

you want a plate of shepherd's pie.

You don't want some posh nosh.

The real trick is not to move the mince around too much

when it first goes in the pan.

Let it brown for a better flavour.

Other ingredients that make this a rather special shepherd's pie

include tomato puree, garlic and thyme.

When making your mash topping,

you can use olive oil rather than butter or milk,

and a good accompaniment to shepherd's pie

is peas, buttery cabbage, baked beans or mashed neeps.

When that script came or even when the idea came of the Royle Family,

I can imagine your agent phoning up and saying,

"It's going to see people watching television,

"watching people who are watching television,

"who actually don't do anything."

I thought it was all right but didn't quite get it.

-It was a big step to do something that, one...

-Extraordinary.

..The audience weren't told when to laugh,

and also the silences.

-I know.

-There had never been a programme on television

-where there had been these great gaps.

-No.

Oh, thanks, Cheryl.

It's a messy job, isn't it?

Ooh, have you washed your hands, love?

No, you're all right, sit down. You're amongst friends.

What a load of nothing... But it just worked brilliantly.

When you were filming Jam and Jerusalem,

your mum died, didn't she?

Yes, just before.

How difficult was that?

I used to think, "When my mother dies, I'll be in therapy,"

through guilt and everything else,

but because of the last couple of years, I haven't got the guilt.

I don't have it. I feel sad that we didn't have...

I think some people have these wonderful friendships with their mothers, but it wasn't to be.

We were never going to have that.

What sort of friend is Sue Johnston?

I've got lots of friends that have left me messages and messages.

Every one of them is a conversation, and there's no time, so who am I going to ring first?

I like it best when I can go home and cook and ask everyone over.

Such great hangovers!

Well, I have actually managed to track down one of your special friends. Got a message for you.

Oh, my goodness!

Sparkling white wine, sparkling white wine. Yes, sparkling Chardonnay.

Thick-sliced or thin?

-My favourite words are takeaway or room service, this is a big, big, effort.

-I don't believe it!

Cod fillet.

Organic British salted-butter.

Sparkling white wine.

Had to be two so we can have the all-important debate - "Oh, no, I only want one glass.

"You have one if you want one."

I think what I will do now, despite the fact that I don't even

have a grill pan is put fishfingers under the grill bit of the stove.

I think it was in her Brookside phase, and it was a comfort dish, fishfinger sandwiches.

Oh, God!

So the butter's liquified. What is interesting about Sue is that she isn't a confident, pushy person.

Like lots of great actors, they aren't, they are often quite shy.

I'm now going to pour...

This is really awful.

Poor Sue, not being here to eat this. That'll sop up the butter.

She's also been there for me at crucial times in my life,

really been there as a force to be relied on.

Just really the dearest friend ever.

-As you can see, it's proper fish.

-Love her.

This is the healthy bit. OK? We're going to squirt it all with lemon.

It's done with total love.

Because she is the dearest person in the world and I would happily

cook her fishfinger sandwiches every day.

This should have been opened a lot earlier, if it wasn't at the crack of dawn.

What she's brilliant at is opening these things as well.

I've had a lot of practice!

I'm really missing her at the moment. She's so good at this.

Can't believe it, it's going to work.

-Here's to you!

-Thank you, darling.

Fishfinger sandwiches.

-Cheers.

-Thank you so much.

-Your lovely friend.

It's all lies!

Thank you, Margot. It's quite oozy.

Yes, with this lovely oozy...

-Are you up for a challenge?

-Yeah. I think so.

Well, watch very closely, because blink and you might miss it.

Hi, Sue. We know you're a massive Liverpool supporter.

After the game we like some pasta, so if you could make that for us.

Oh!

I've gone to pieces.

Gone trembly throughout!

So, your little challenge from Jamie Carragher -

chicken cooked with a little bit of white wine or vermouth, then whatever herb you've got around.

And...

-You do love your football, don't you?

-I'm a bit of a child about it.

-Have you been to the Emirates stadium?

-It's magnificent. I went there.

I can stand in my shower in the mornings

and I can see the top of the stadium and when they were working on it,

and all the cranes were up there, sort of waving at them.

You want some pasta, so I've got lots of salt.

In fact it should almost taste like seawater.

-Do you have good food when you go to matches?

-Fantastic - when I was a young girl, with my dad.

We'd have pies and chips on the way home, but now, I put my money

to good use - I have a season ticket, and it is such a treat.

It's my old-age treat for myself.

He can have some wine, can't he?

-Course he can.

-You wanted to squeeze some lemon juice in there.

I'm putting dill in, because...

I think it just smells so fabulous.

And what you can do if you're in a hurry is use chicken that isn't on the bone.

The whole thing cooks much quicker.

Cut into small pieces.

-Very pretty.

-It's beautiful.

-The smell is fantastic. I couldn't wait...

-No, exactly.

Jamie Carragher's pasta. Ta-da!

Jamie Carragher's pasta!

Mmmm!

It's so lovely.

Time for Sue Johnston's final feast.

-Sue Johnston, your final feast.

-I'm so greedy, I can't bear it.

There's quite a lot of food here. So you'd start with...

This is one of my Italian things that I've picked up from Italy,

Parma ham and melon.

I first had a risotto that I really loved in Assisi.

And it had truffle in it.

And I mean, the taste is just amazing.

A good risotto depends on a number of key elements.

Use a short grain rice like Arborio.

The creaminess of the risotto comes from the starch of the rice.

Add ladles of stock whilst constantly stirring.

This dish is all about absorption and not being in a hurry.

Arborio should not be rinsed before cooking as you will wash away some of the essential starch.

That is a beautiful rib of beef.

Look at those. I could live on roast potatoes, cabbage and gravy,

if I came down to what I had to remove from this table...

-At a crunch, that's what I'd come down to.

-Green pea soup?

Like me mother used to make.

Pea soup is lovely hot or cold.

Traditionally you would add ham to make this.

And in northern England mushy peas are preferred to frozen ones.

Or you could do as the Dutch do, by making a pea and pig trotter soup.

This is a meal in itself.

And it is so moreish and full of flavour.

You have done so many things, you have done stage work and lots of TV.

-Is there anything you'd like to have a go at?

-A big movie.

I would love the experience of working with those huge stars, the size of the trailers.

-You just want a big trailer.

-I just want a bigger trailer!

You said you'd have liked a bigger family.

Yes, those things sweep by you.

I'd have loved a lot of children but it didn't fall out that way.

But I've got the most fantastic son. Some people don't get that.

You look back and think, "Why did I cry so much?

"Why was I so heartbroken?" If that hadn't happened, I wouldn't be doing this.

As well as your final feast...

-Rather large feast.

-Yes, rather large feast.

Go on...go on. Carry on! Hurry up!

You've got a wish. Is there anything that you would wish for?

That my son would hurry up and have a grandchild.

So I can go through that experience!

-You want to be a granny. You like living on your own.

-I love it.

-You wouldn't want to change that?

-Not for anything less than I have now.

If you could emulate the love that you feel when you're in love,

when you're young, or middle-aged - I felt it, once...

If it could be like that and you wanted to be with someone,

and lived a life you wanted to share, that would be fantastic.

But I'm pretty realistic - it's not going to happen.

But it doesn't matter.

Sue Johnston, thank you so much for being a guest on Taste of My Life.

A very greedy Taste Of My Life.

Thank you so much, I've loved it.

-Are we finishing this off now?

-Hmmm.

Pass us the beef then!

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