Episode 5 The Bottom Line


Episode 5

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capacity for enriched uranium. Now, The Bottom Line. We will not be

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talking about any estate agents, car mechanics, or financial

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advisers but we will be talking about them. They, like so many

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people, sell specialist knowledge. But they are also perversions we

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also grumble about. So today, the curious business of expert advice.

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Plus, what is the place of religion in work? Each week, influential

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business leaders gather for The Bottom Line. Now you can see it as

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Let us start by spending the next few minutes by meeting our guests.

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The first is gather MacGregor. -- Gavin. He is also the author of the

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Mrs Moneypenny: -- Mrs Moneypenny column. We are very low volume. We

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for lot less than 100 jobs a year. It is a specialist business. We

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sell specialist services. Each member of staff helps recruit four

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people. Yes. We are not in the recruitment business. We are

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between a management consultancy and a private detective agency.

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your speciality his third relations business. Communication spot

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stopped communicating to any body and needs it. We work for many

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foundations. All sorts of public companies. Anybody who needs to

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communicate. It is people we deal with governments. A roaring trade

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in Brussels. People who need to communicate to share holders

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already body. That business, the communications business, is there

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any sign of it beginning to dip again? No. The times people need to

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high-rise is when they get away size where they want to spend more

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time working out what the cost of capital is. You Ryder -- you either

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cut down or you get somebody to do it. Rupert Soames is the chief

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executive of Aggreko. You have had some interesting business in the

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last year. Let us talk about the Japanese tsunami. Your services

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were in demand. We provided for people when they needed it. The

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Japanese example was when they needed both. They needed a huge

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amount of power and they needed it quickly. We mobilised to very large

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power stations. We got it there within three months. Built the

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permanent equivalent of that and it would take you five years. We have

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our kit in containers ready to go and we do everything from A

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farmer's market on a damp Saturday morning through to the Olympic

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Games up to providing power for whole countries. The power is boil?

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Yes, gas and diesel. You would take five years to do what you do.

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build a permanent one. What price of energy and electricity are they

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paying for the fact you have managed to do it so quickly? Five

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times the long-term price? It is not far different in terms of the

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equipment. It is very efficient. The cost of the fuel is different.

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Permanent power stations, you will have great big gas pipelines. A lot

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of these run on diesel. People do not hire us because we are cheap.

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They need us very quickly and because they need us for a short

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period of time. You started off as a disc-jockey when you're younger,

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a college student. Glastonbury. was a DJ at a nightclub. That was

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in my youth. One of my most valued customers was Michael Eavis at

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Glastonbury. A bank here. Finally, Gavin Oldham. He is chief executive

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of The Share Centre. That is a retail stockbroker. Talk us through

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what service you do provide. You give some advice and also transact

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for people who want to buy some shares themselves. I have been

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passionate about encouraging personal share ownership in the UK.

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20 years ago, I set up The Share Centre and The Share Centre helps

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people who choose their own investments. We do provide advice

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for them as well. We look after about 300,000 customer accounts and

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we have 150 people in Buckinghamshire. What is the

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difference between The Share Centre and other stockbrokers?

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traditional one is a wealth manager these days and they take decisions

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on behalf of their clients and does a wealthy people. We look after

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people of whatever their means are all their experiences. We have

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practise accounts, loads of information on how to do things and

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we walk alongside the investor all the way. One is a practise account?

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You can buy and sell and see how well you do? You can put �15,000 a

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virtual money in your account and a salad at your heart's desire. He

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won't make any real profits but you will get a lot of experience.

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us talk about serve and expertise. In some sense, you were all

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somewhat in that business. -- are. I'm a buyer. I do not know what is

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wrong with my castaway asking mechanic. He tells me I need an

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expensive repair. Economists are obsessed with information. The

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difference between the purchase her and the seller of the servers. It

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is a common revelation. You seek advice from the person selling you

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the product because they know more about it and you do. It can be an

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electric shock or anywhere. I am wondering whether these markets,

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there is a symmetry of interest on knowledge, whether these markets

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work very well and what you do was people who sell expertise? What do

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you do to make the market work well? Rupert, I am guessing you do

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have to specify. To defy % of our business is emergencies. People are

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desperate. -- 25%. I jolly well hope our salespeople know more

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about what to do than the customers do. It is very simple, in my mind.

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It depends if you want to be in business for five minutes or 50

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years. We have opportunities every day to go and talk with our clients

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when they're under stress or need stuff but we have been in business

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or 50 years because we do not and what the normal day-to-day

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relationships are, they're fine, you do that every day and they're

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easier when you have a continuing relationship. What is difficult is

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when you have a long-term depression, like a lawyer. --

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profession. How would you choose which is the right one? You hope

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you're not going to have to deal with one. Most services, like the

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car mechanic, you go at your local garage and if they give you a bad

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service, you go to a different garage. That's all well and good if

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you're going to a mechanic. If he went to the car salesman, a

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salesman whose interest is too silly that car, you can't go to

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somebody who was going to act on your behalf and say the difference

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between this and that car, who was going to -- who is going to sell

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you that car. -- to sell you. He is going to get a bonus. You must

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eliminate that conflict of interest. You were talking about it before.

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When people have an emergency, you explain their options and what they

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can do. In our business, 30 years, not as long as Aggreko but like you,

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I came into this business and I bought it because I believed in

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what it did and it has eliminated, we do not pay any about in the

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pitch will people a percentage. -- any of our individual people. That

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is unusual for our industry. It would be helpful. Not selling one

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make. What other brands do you represent? That is an example. In

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our industry, we have gone through real change. In 1986, the single

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capacities, as we call them, the difference of people dealing on the

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road account and advising and walking alongside others, that was

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done away with. -- on their own. As a result, it has led to the kind of

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excesses but in investment banks and banking generally which I

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believe has been a very large part of the financial crisis because we

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put these together, there are immense conflicts between

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businesses and people and as a result, we have all kinds of

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problems. What I want to know is this. The

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reason why these markets in information and expertise and

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advice, one reason why they may not worked very well is that if you

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were, let's say, the estate agency. If you like the honest estate agent,

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you're not going to do very well. Rupert, you talked about reputation.

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That is what you work for and you want to be in business in 50 years.

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If I am an honest estate agent, and I am not exaggerating, I am not in

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business for five minutes. A good on -- example of estate agents is

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you have three estate agents to value your house, which one do you

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pick? The one who exaggerates. Not the one who says, I'm terribly

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sorry. Clearly, I wouldn't make too much of it in terms of the estate

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agents or the motor mechanics. We have got to the place we are being

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with these sorts of complexities of the last 10,000 years and we kind

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of model prove. The conflicts we are talking about in these large

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institutions was never before existed, the financial institutions,

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Ra more recent occurrence. -- which. -- are a. People are very savvy at

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buying. Why aren't there more car mechanics? Why do they not make

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more money? This car mechanic and that, can it. It is the reason

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people would ask for you instead of somebody else. Who was your

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principal competitor? We have lots of competitive. And no peers?

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think it's been about understanding that people buy from people, that

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is what it comes down to. personal recommendation of the

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person was used that mechanic previously and got a good service

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means everything and that is how you align the person buying your

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service and you because if anybody in my business blows up our

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reputation, that is 30 years down the drain. You were absolutely

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right. It is very difficult to go by that quality of service if your

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interest is directly against the interest of the person who you're

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actually dealing with on the side. It does need to be very Clear who

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you are dealing with that. Is he really acting on behalf of you or

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acting on behalf of himself? There is such a thing as probation will

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epics. Lawyers, for example. -- professional ethics. Doctors.

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Professionals to sell expertise. They are expected to behave in a

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certain restraint kind of way. There are rules against advertising

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in the medical services. There is a Hippocratic oath. All sorts of

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stuff that makes doctors feel like, my job is not about selling. This

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whole area of epics is really important. If you're generally

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doing something for the person you're trying to serve, you're a

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big sum in the right place. That is what a doctor is trying to do. --

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your ethics. That is what a lawyer is trying to do. I think that

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really does lead to the whole issue of actually directing people and

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the care that people have for others. That ought to underpin

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every good agency relationship where basically people are doing

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You do have this problem. If you have these are great ethical things,

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ultimately, people organise things for their own convenience. You are

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20% more likely to have serious consequences and die of an ill the

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-- any on Saturday rather than Monday to Friday. Because the

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consultants are out playing golf. You have to be careful. These

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relationships we have a customer hiring a professional - it is very

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general. In some ways, your sharers a point you as experts to run their

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companies, don't they? You do not have shareholders? Might company by

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all the shares. The other two, you have shareholders? In any

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commercial company, the directors get comfortable with the

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shareholders of a company. The shareholders want a long-term,

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successful company and they will only get that if they look after

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their customers proper. Rupert has had a business which has been

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around for many years. He has done that because he has been looking

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after the customers and the shareholders. There is a

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convergence of interest. If you can get it to work, it is very good.

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You are an agent of your shareholders? I always say to

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people. I am a hard -- who hired hand. That has been a really say

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she -- relationship. Management treat shareholders like mushrooms

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and they keep them in the dark and occasionally throw money on them.

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Over the last 30 or 40 years there has been these dual track approach.

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One of getting managers to have been just an to have improved

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governments. On the whole, and direction of both of those had been

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correct and have corrected a problem. In the 1960s, there was no

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connection between a ownership and management. I would like to cambers

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your views on religion. There is a debate going on in this country

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about the role of religion in the state. A local council was told it

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was not allowed to have prayers before council meeting. What place

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does religion have in business? Gavin, you're in the Church of

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England? The General Synod. I am a member of the advisory group.

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us that affect your day off work when you go into the office?

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much is made of the symbolism of religion and not enough of the

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values which underpin it. Let me explain what I mean, in most

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businesses, we have the values we based the business on. To treat

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others as you wish to be treated yourself, for example. It was

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brought about as a result of canvassing all the staff. Can you

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see a bit of a relationship they between love your neighbour as

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yourself and basically treat others as you would treat yourself? There

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is a commonality. When you look at the Gospels, they are about how we

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should behave with one another and that is one the teaching is. It is

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not about the symbolism, what we wear, whether we were any closer a

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head gear, it is about how we behave with people that we meet and

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come across day by day. Everybody does that on the street. Yawn

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normally this - you're normally ethical in new business life and it

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reflects your religious content without having to be explicitly

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Christian in your behaviour? way you should behave in a decent

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society is to care about others and have respect for them. One of their

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core value is respect for others. Come on, you'd soon. In Aggreko we

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have about 6,000 people. I stopped counting the 22 religions. We need

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to be sensitive about that. But we do not let it impinge into our

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daily business for a couple reasons. First of all, CEOs to think they're

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geniuses at business are bad enough but if you also -- if they also

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think they are gone it makes some really bad. But I agree that it

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does not stop you having a real strong foundation, a strong ethical

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and moral foundation. Be at the 10 Commandments - they have some

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pretty strong things. Do not cover it somebody else's things. Adultery

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is it bad thing and it is lethal in in the office. I am all in favour

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of having an underpinning of morality about the way you do

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business but not pretending that we are ourselves of God. It's hello,

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what about you take? His religion something that can be tolerated,

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promoted? We work for companies all over the world, candidates all over

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the world and therefore you have to be respectful of people in the

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workplace. I was raised in a strong Anglican household and I hope I

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have raised my children in a similar way. It is all about doing

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something else for other people before you ever think about

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yourself. This is what happens. Would not your shareholders...

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not have any shareholders. Wouldn't they say I expected to do things

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for the company? Shareholders are investing for the 25 years. You're

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night, who are about 50, will not be able to draw a pension for

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another 25 years. In those 25 years they would be best served if we do

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good to other people. Couldn't it will split up, good said look for

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me where things are nicer and it was said look for me with things

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are nasty. Do not leave them because wants to say goodbye to me

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you'll never see me again. People do unconditional things other

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people. They genuinely have that care and personally I feel that is

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part of the unconditional love which is God, which is flowing

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through people, and if it goes free, it is the most wonderful experience

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and interestingly, it is not in any way dependent on what religion you

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practice. The incredible presumption that God only talks

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through Christians... God will talk to anyone got wants to talk through.

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You are talking through a liberal - - as a liberal-minded Christian,

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there are Christians to a more hard? Of the Anglican

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interpretation is often seen as being based on the three-legged

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stool - tradition, scripture and reason will stop it is true to say

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that some people weigh more heavily on the tradition and particular

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bits on -- of the scripture then the logic. The logic to me is the

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unconditional love. That is what underpins all sorts of businesses.

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If you act like that you will have a good reputation, people will

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recommend you and you will be around for 50 years. When you do

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the calculation, you can get an extra three hours a week for 50

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other people by forcing them to work on the Sabbath or coming up

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with a dependent policy, the cost benefits tell you is not worth it.

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This is not the only issue as pertaining to mothers, part-timers,

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there are lots of challenge us and in every case, the thing to do is

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to be tolerant, respect for and help somebody else. In its to be

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brave enough to encompass what people want to do. But it does not

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want it to be so broad that people coming in sneakers and at one pair

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of jeans. Certainly not in my business. I notice you do not have

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a tie on today. On that night. Let us draw to a close. Just time to

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thank out guests - Heather MacGregor, Rupert Soames and Gavin

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