Pennod 2 Cymru: Dal i Gredu?

-*

-It's a Sunday morning in Felinheli.

-We're going to chapel.

-I'm Gwion Hallam.

-In my work, I travel with a film

-crew, usually behind the camera.

-This is heavy, Rhys.

-As I ask whether Welsh people

-still believe in God...

-..I'll also question my own faith.

-The fact is,

-I'm not a believer any more.

-VAN TOOTS HORN

-They're friendly in Felinheli.

-As a family,

-we've lived here for many years.

-This is Bethania chapel

-in Felinheli.

-As a young man, I was an evangelist.

-I preached on a Sunday.

-Like so many Welsh people,

-I rarely go to chapel nowadays.

-There are children here.

-Sunday School meets upstairs.

-Are you OK? Can I come in?

-Can someone like me come in?

-As I walked in to Bethania...

-..I realized how much

-my circumstances had changed...

-..since my first visit.

-I preached here as a young man.

-At the time, I preached

-in chapels in North Wales.

-I don't come often now,

-although I live in the village.

-That's sad and quite strange.

-I'm here to witness

-a Christian ceremony...

-..that still draws people to chapel.

-I'm happy to be with you...

-..to baptize two children.

-You're smiling at me, son!

-The atmosphere

-is relaxed and light-hearted.

-The happy parents vow to raise

-their children in the faith.

-Tell him the Christian story,

-about Christ's love...

-..the love he gave to us.

-Are you coming to me?

-I accept you

-to the Christian church.

-As a sign of that,

-I baptize you with water.

-In the name of Father, and of

-the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

-It was a privilege

-to be here with the families...

-..to celebrate with them...

-..and present the children to God

-at their baptism.

-It's difficult to know why

-we didn't baptize our four children.

-Why didn't Eleri and I baptize them?

-Is it because

-my faith was once so strong?

-From believing

-so uncompromisingly...

-..do I feel detached

-from the culture and tradition?

-More than anything,

-this morning has proved...

-..that the Christian traditions

-and customs are thriving.

-It's another question to ask,

-does Wales still believe?

-Are traditions and customs enough?

-Subtitles

-It's a Monday morning.

-The film crew is picking me up.

-But there's a problem.

-Sorry. Come in.

-I'd forgotten schools

-have an In-Practice Training day.

-Come in out of the rain. Eleri is

-in school, but the children are not.

-It could be interesting.

-Are you going to behave, please?

-Twm has a camera. Two cameras today!

-I'd planned to see Felinheli

-chapels today.

-That chapel has gone,

-so has the one on the cover.

-There is only one chapel here.

-Moi and Twm don't want

-to be dragged round old chapels.

-I need a Plan B. Alright, Twm?

-And stop.

-Is it any good?

-Do you want to see?

-Let's watch it back.

-Owain, do you want to come

-to Hwylfan this afternoon?

-OK.

-Moi was planning our day for us.

-The baptism was still on my mind.

-I'm justifying to Rhys,

-the cameraman...

-..why we didn't

-baptize the children.

-As an atheist, it isn't an issue.

-As an atheist, it isn't an issue.

-

-No.

-They go to Sunday School.

-Eleri agrees.

-We don't go to chapel,

-and I don't believe as I used to...

-..so we feel

-we can't baptize them now.

-You might have lost your faith,

-but you've held on to your Bibles.

-Yes. Don't we all?

-Yes. Don't we all?

-

-No!

-You must have a Bible, Rhys!

-You must have a Bible, Rhys!

-

-I don't.

-Maybe.

-This is Christ Church in Caernarfon.

-It's had quite a conversion

-since it closed.

-Don't think the children

-never attend a chapel or church.

-You're meeting Owain.

-Wait, Moi. Remember the rules.

-Remember the Hwylfan

-Ten Commandments?

-It was packed. The former church

-is a saviour to parents like me.

-Have you taken off your shoes?!

-I'll be in there soon.

-I'll be in there soon.

-

-I'll take them off here.

-Not every parent acts like a child.

-They love running round...

-..and letting off steam.

-It's a welcome break for parents.

-The conversation turned

-to children and baptizing.

-It remains

-a subject for discussion...

-..as Nia Parry

-and Bethan Roberts prove.

-The word 'baptize'

-is a no-go in our house.

-It's one of those subjects

-where I shut down.

-I don't want to discuss it

-until they're about fifteen!

-We baptized Hedd

-when he was about eighteen months.

-It took place in Aled's parents'

-chapel in West Wales.

-They go to chapel, his mother

-was in charge of Sunday School.

-Southwalians!

-Southwalians!

-

-Cultured!

-We baptized Hedd...

-..to appease his grandparents.

-You're being honest in saying that.

-It's true. I was baptized.

-I like the idea of godparents,

-somehow.

-It's an additional support.

-I'm a godparent

-to my cousin's children.

-If something happened to her,

-there's something formal in place.

-They don't have to be baptized

-to have godparents.

-We don't have godparents

-and my daughters were baptized.

-It was clearly important.

-It was a natural step.

-There was no pressure

-from our parents.

-Elfyn and I

-just did what felt right.

-We were brought up to go to Sunday

-School, we were both received.

-We had a chapel wedding.

-Baptizing

-was the natural step for us.

-Like many parents...

-..Bethan and her husband didn't

-question baptizing their children.

-Parents feel it's valuable...

-..to protect our traditions

-and customs.

-Protecting the children

-comes naturally to me.

-It's their wellbeing

-that's important.

-Am I being selfish

-in not baptizing them?

-Am I more worried about my own

-hang-ups than my children's futures?

-Am I depriving them

-of a Welsh tradition...

-..of being a part of a rich culture?

-The next mother I met had plenty

-of reasons not to go to chapel.

-Oasis.

-And for Twm Brain Licker.

-I knew Beca Brown was an atheist.

-For some reason,

-she has started to attend chapel.

-While we were in Hwylfan...

-..I asked her about it.

-You haven't baptized the children.

-You haven't baptized the children.

-

-It never crossed my mind.

-We didn't as a family.

-I wasn't baptized.

-My parents were probably baptized.

-They are atheists.

-We weren't chapelgoers.

-Chapel didn't feature

-in your childhood?

-No.

-But Tomi, my son...

-..has hinted

-he'd like to be baptized.

-That came as a shock.

-Why does he want to be baptized?

-He feels left out.

-He said, "Why wasn't I baptized?"

-I didn't know what to say.

-You've started going to chapel.

-You've started going to chapel.

-

-We do go, sometimes.

-Tomi came home and said...

-"..Everyone goes to Sunday School

-but me. I want to go."

-I said, "OK, if you want to go

-to Sunday School, I'll come too.

-"I can see what's going on."

-They enjoyed it.

-They expected it to be

-more religious than it was.

-Sunday School is fun, they

-play games. It's Lite-Religion.

-What's Lite-Religion?

-Like Sprite Lite?!

-They don't push religion

-on children.

-They're so pleased

-the children are there...

-..they're careful not to overdo it.

-They don't want to

-scare them off with faith!

-What a cynical thing to say!

-What a cynical thing to say!

-

-I know.

-Being cynical, do Lite-Religion

-parents baptize children...

-..because it's a tradition?

-..because it's a tradition?

-

-I wouldn't judge that.

-Once you start to judge people

-for what religion means to them...

-..you are on shaky ground.

-Everyone has to take from

-religion what they need and want.

-I'm an atheist, but I go to chapel.

-I get something out of it.

-But what do you get?

-Perhaps it's hard to define.

-Yes.

-It's good to have

-an hour in the morning...

-..to gather my thoughts.

-I'm meeting the older generation

-from the village.

-The children and I have got to know

-the older generation.

-Now, we see them in Londis and say,

-"Hello, how are you?"

-I like the atmosphere there.

-I like certain preachers

-and some of the sermons.

-Sometimes, I leave in a foul mood...

-VOICE OVER TANNOY

-There's a sermon here now!

-Moi Llwyd Hallam,

-get down from there!

-It's nothing to do with us.

-If they go to chapel,

-it can't have been them!

-Perhaps Beca is right.

-Who am I to question her decision

-as an atheist, to go to chapel?

-But Welsh chapels and churches

-are closing.

-It's fair to ask...

-..is going for social reasons

-or in the name of tradition...

-..enough to stop that?

-.

-Subtitles

-Subtitles

-

-Subtitles

-I'm on the road again, looking

-for people who still believe in God.

-Where are we going?

-To South Wales where Christians

-live! There are some up here too.

-We're going to Swansea to meet

-Rev Derek Rees, a Baptist minister.

-This afternoon, after school,

-there's a children's club in chapel.

-Is that why you brought your guitar?

-Yes! Is the guitar in the back?

-It's Sion's guitar. Thanks, Sion.

-If it's anything like the

-children's club in Llansannan...

-..when I was

-a Presbyterian youth worker...

-..I'll have to entertain

-the children.

-They probably like singing.

-Do you remember the old classics,

-like Kum Ba Yah?

-My God Is So Big.

-Three chords and the truth.

-Three chords and the truth!

-# My God is so big,

-so strong, so mighty

-# There's nothing

-that He cannot do #

-What were the actions?

-# My God is so big,

-so strong, so mighty #

-After leaving college, my first job

-was as a Christian youth worker.

-In Llansannan, Bro Aled,

-I ran weekly children's clubs...

-..to spread the word.

-Mrs Lewis isn't here this week.

-We won't be singing.

-We're going to learn

-a new song with Gwion.

-He isn't playing the piano.

-I can't play the guitar,

-but I'll give it a go.

-Before we sing, let's pray.

-One, two, three.

-Oh, Lord. We give thanks for

-being in the club with our friends.

-Thanks to everyone

-who is helping us.

-We're having fun as we learn.

-Let us enjoy learning a new song.

-Amen.

-Amen.

-

-Amen!

-Everyone stay where you are.

-I'm a little bit rusty.

-I haven't done this in years.

-What do you normally sing?

-What do you normally sing?

-

-Hei Mistar Urdd.

-# In your red, white and green,

-we always have fun in your company

-# Hey, Mr Urdd,

-let's go out for a walk

-# Let's sing a song

-for the children of Wales

-# I saw you for the first time

-in the camp by the sea #

-That was good!

-What's your name?

-Charlie.

-Charlie.

-

-Only Charlie knows the verse!

-Right, My God Is So Big.

-# My God is so big,

-so strong, so mighty

-# There's nothing

-that He cannot do

-# My God is so big,

-so strong, so mighty

-# There's nothing

-that He cannot do #

-Since Derek Rees started

-this work here five years ago...

-..many youngsters

-have become Christians.

-Some help him with the club.

-# So strong, so mighty

-# There's nothing

-that He cannot do #

-Thanks.

-It takes me back.

-I feel a bit guilty,

-singing as I did so many years ago.

-Children are lovely.

-They forgive anything.

-What about you?

-Elephant.

-After the singing, more fun.

-My eagle impersonation skills

-were on trial.

-A bird, OK.

-A bird, OK.

-

-What bird, though?

-Eagle!

-Eagle!

-

-Yes!

-OK, Chloe?

-Then we turned

-to something more serious.

-They prayed for the world's poor...

-..and gave thanks

-for the things they enjoyed.

-While they prayed, I searched

-for the true purpose of the club.

-There's a baptismal pool

-under here somewhere.

-Tomos and Gareth, two of the young

-people who are helping tonight...

-..were baptized here.

-I want to know more about it.

-I pretended to be an eagle in there.

-I sang with the children.

-I don't feel uncomfortable

-about that.

-On the one hand, it's so innocent.

-But there's something

-deep and profound...

-..happening to these young people.

-That's part of my experience

-in the past.

-I was young

-when I became a Christian.

-I was baptized when I was eighteen.

-I had a baptism by immersion.

-Sorry, boys. What lovely children.

-I didn't realize

-you had a baptism by immersion.

-Yes, like the young people there.

-There was no baptismal pool in

-our chapel. We weren't Baptists.

-We used a milk tank.

-It went round the chapels...

-..for young people like me

-who wanted to be baptized.

-I don't remember much about it.

-I had friends and family there.

-It was a celebration

-of this new life.

-We were submerged and resurfaced...

-..symbolizing

-the old person going down...

-..and being reborn in Christ.

-A new life,

-a religious conversion.

-That's why

-I can't baptize the children.

-Having declared my faith publicly...

-..I can't baptize

-in the name of tradition alone.

-That would be hypocrisy.

-She knows we're coming.

-In Cardiff, there's a special event

-in the orthodox synagogue.

-The Chief Rabbi of Britain is

-travelling from London to be there.

-I've arranged to call on

-a Jewish lady who lives in the city.

-Tracy Israel has agreed to discuss

-the importance of Judaism to her.

-Hello, how are you? Tracy?

-It's Gwion.

-How are you?

-We're on our way.

-Sorry we're a little late. Will we

-be there in twenty minutes, Rhys?

-Yes.

-We haven't eaten, but we'll be fine.

-Really.

-We'll see you shortly.

-Bye. Thanks. Looking forward

-to meeting you. Ta-ra.

-The bell works.

-Tracy.

-Tracy.

-

-Hello, Gwion. Welcome.

-Sorry we're late.

-Sorry we're late.

-

-Don't worry. Come in.

-Let's go through to the kitchen.

-You said you were hungry.

-Food would be lovely.

-I have toasties on the go.

-It's an obvious question...

-..but as a Jewish family...

-..there are things you don't eat.

-Yes. This isn't a kosher house.

-What I mean by that is...

-..we don't have separate kitchens

-for meat and milk.

-We don't have two ovens

-and two sinks.

-We don't eat pork.

-There's never pork in the house...

-..not only in the house,

-but when we eat out, too.

-We never eat pork.

-There are certain fish

-that are not kosher.

-Swordfish isn't kosher.

-We don't eat much swordfish

-in Felinheli, either!

-You were brought up going to chapel

-in Pontyates.

-Congregationalists in Noddfa,

-Pontyates.

-I went to Sunday School.

-I went to Sunday School.

-

-It was a similar childhood to mine.

-We were Methodists.

-The denominations

-weren't important to us then.

-When and why

-did you convert to Judaism?

-To be honest...

-..I didn't have

-much experience of Judaism or Jews.

-When I lived in London...

-..I worked there

-for thirteen years...

-..I met Gary Israel.

-I remember thinking,

-that's an odd name.

-I realized he was a Jew.

-I have to say...

-..at that time...

-..religion

-wasn't very important to Gary.

-When we decided to marry...

-..I began to think about children.

-I wanted to give something

-to that child.

-That's what Jack has had.

-He has had the experience...

-..of being raised

-in a Jewish family.

-Gary was shocked

-when I expressed an interest...

-..in going to the synagogue

-to see what it was like.

-I have to be honest...

-..I felt at home

-from the moment I entered.

-What's the importance

-of your faith to you?

-A subject this series

-hopes to explore...

-..is the relationship

-between culture and faith.

-Do the traditions, food and customs

-sustain your faith?

-That provides a framework.

-I like to work within a framework.

-I feel safe,

-knowing there are dos and don'ts.

-I like to go to the synagogue...

-..going through the prayer

-and knowing what comes next...

-..what parts we sing,

-what parts we recite...

-..in Hebrew or English.

-I like that feeling.

-I don't believe in the man

-sitting on a cloud, to be honest.

-Do you believe in God?

-Yes. I believe in God. I can't put

-my finger on what I believe God is.

-God is there.

-Am I being too black and white?

-When I was a young man...

-..the word, the truth was absolute.

-Are you looking

-for some sort of revelation?

-Do you want proof?

-I'm not looking for proof.

-I think that's what faith is.

-I'll put these in the toastie.

-It's a miracle you've done

-that while we've been talking!

-It was my job to make the tea!

-Come on, Gwion!

-It's obvious Tracy

-is a person of faith.

-The religious traditions,

-the extras I'm critical of...

-..don't weaken her faith.

-Rather, they sustain her.

-.

-Subtitles

-Subtitles

-

-Subtitles

-I'm going to the induction service

-of the new Rabbi in Cardiff.

-I've called to see Tracy Israel.

-She wanted to show me

-her son's Bar Mitzvah box.

-It's a record of the ceremony when

-he was accepted into the faith...

-..at the age of thirteen.

-This is very traditional.

-We create a box as a keepsake.

-Let me show you what's inside.

-Of course, there are photographs.

-This is the evening party

-in the Museum.

-The Museum in Cardiff?

-The Museum in Cardiff?

-

-Yes.

-Was the purple cap specially

-for the Bar Mitzvah?

-No, the theme was Camelot.

-The parties tend to have a theme.

-Jack enjoys History.

-He wanted an Arthurian theme.

-We chose this colour.

-This is the kippah.

-It was handed

-to every man and boy...

-..who came to the party at night.

-It says, "To celebrate

-the Bar Mitzvah of Jack Rhys."

-Kippahs come in every colour...

-..and all sorts of patterns.

-I'll show you one I have.

-We're in Cardiff.

-This one has

-the CCFC bluebirds emblem.

-I was born in Swansea.

-My family are Swansea fans.

-This subject is more complex

-than Judaism and Christianity!

-If you go tonight

-to the orthodox synagogue...

-..you have to wear a kippah.

-The three of us?

-Yes. You're in God's house.

-It's traditional.

-What bothers me is,

-if I have to wear one...

-..what will it get attached to?

-Have a go!

-The newer ones are more stiff.

-It just sits on my head?

-I don't know whether you've noticed,

-but I can't tie it to anything.

-Try it on.

-Rest it on the top of your head.

-It stays on,

-even if you're bald like me?

-You can get a Velcro strip...

-..that goes inside the kippah...

-..to keep the kippah in place.

-I'll put this back.

-We'll be given different ones

-on our way in tonight.

-That's how superficial I can be!

-I worry about the externals.

-Tonight in the synagogue...

-..I hope to see how healthy Judaism

-is in Wales.

-People like Tracy

-clearly follow the faith.

-But what about the wider community?

-Compared to chapels...

-..how are our country's synagogues

-faring?

-Good evening.

-Good evening to you.

-Good evening to you.

-

-Thanks for the welcome.

-It was obvious

-that it was a very special occasion.

-They have come from far and wide...

-..to witness the induction of

-the orthodox synagogue's new rabbi.

-Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis

-has come from London.

-This is the place to be...

-..to experience

-Jewish customs and traditions.

-PRAYER

-We stood to pray and turned to face

-Israel and Jerusalem.

-Some wore the tallit...

-..the prayer shawl that reminds

-them of God's instructions.

-The curtains opened.

-Torah scrolls

-were collected from the ark.

-The scrolls are a powerful symbol

-of the Torah's importance.

-This is the word of God,

-the foundation of the Jewish faith.

-ARAMAIC READING

-Rabbi Rose stepped forward

-to be appointed.

-He read a prayer in Aramaic.

-The rest of the service and songs

-was in Hebrew.

-HEBREW HYMN

-That was fascinating...

-..the singing

-and emphasis on community.

-They all know one another.

-The women wore hats.

-It's like going back 40 years

-to a packed Welsh chapel.

-But it's totally different, too.

-Like in chapel...

-..no important gathering

-is complete without a cuppa.

-That's where I met Zowie Tudur.

-She's a Welsh Jewess

-who was brought up in the synagogue.

-I didn't expect such a big event.

-This doesn't happen every Sabbath.

-This is a special event

-for the Cardiff community.

-We have a new, young Rabbi,

-who's very active...

-..who wants more participants...

-..and encouraging members

-to come regularly.

-For the Chief Rabbi to be here

-for his induction is great.

-On a regular basis...

-..the community is,

-unfortunately, a dying community.

-It's not as it was,

-20 or 30 years ago.

-Why is that? We're on

-a journey with this programme.

-We started with chapels,

-coming from that background myself.

-That's the same story.

-There are exceptions, possibly.

-For Cardiff, I don't believe

-it's a religious issue.

-The Jewish community

-isn't here any more.

-They've migrated out

-to the bigger communities...

-..London, Manchester and Leeds.

-For my generation,

-there were opportunities outside.

-They wanted

-Jewish Sunday School and schools...

-..kosher butchers

-and the Jewish way of life...

-..which unfortunately,

-as each family left Cardiff...

-..so that community decreased.

-That's the interesting question.

-The Jewish way of life,

-the Welsh way of life...

-..is it about culture,

-or is it about faith?

-From my experience,

-it's very much a blend of the two.

-The religion is very important

-to me, but the culture is too.

-The reality is,

-I'm traditionally orthodox...

-..as opposed to practising orthodox.

-I don't know

-if you should put that on camera!

-It's much more

-about upholding the traditions...

-..my family and the heritage,

-and honouring the legacy...

-..and what I can do with my

-children is pass the traditions on.

-They then have the choice.

-That's the hope

-of many Welsh chapelgoers, too.

-Upholding traditions

-for the children...

-..in the hope they'll do the same.

-It doesn't seem to be working here,

-either.

-The synagogue members are getting

-older and fewer, like Welsh chapels.

-It's late.

-Sorry you had to wait for me.

-The people were so welcoming.

-I feel almost ashamed that I have

-never been in a synagogue before.

-That says a lot about the sort

-of Christianity I once believed in.

-I don't want to be

-judgmental about my past.

-I'm sure there are Jews here

-who haven't been in a chapel.

-There's something odd that religions

-can be so alike, so warm...

-..and almost belonging to the same

-culture, but very different, too.

-I'm not suggesting they're the same.

-It's odd that I have to be 41

-before coming to a synagogue.

-I heard a lot of Welsh there.

-This is something I should have

-done a long time ago.

-It was an honour to be there

-on such a special day.

-.

-Subtitles

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-

-Subtitles

-It's Sunday. We're on the way

-to the Gomer crew's service.

-It's Rev Derek Rees's

-small, enthusiastic congregation.

-We're still discussing

-the synagogue. You enjoyed it, Rhys.

-You came out in the kippah.

-I wanted to take it home.

-I did enjoy it.

-I thought it was great.

-It was familiar, similar to chapel.

-It faces a similar fate to chapels.

-The congregations are dwindling.

-It would have been much emptier

-on a typical Sabbath.

-We saw the culture,

-ceremony and religious externals.

-It's usually quite empty.

-It will be very different today

-with Derek Rees back in Swansea.

-This is their Sunday service.

-They don't even have a chapel now.

-No frills.

-No frills religion, yes.

-It's years since I've been

-to Ty Tawe.

-I couldn't even find it!

-Ty Tawe is a centre

-for Welsh speakers.

-On Sunday, it's the meeting point

-of the Gomer crowd.

-How are you, Derek?

-Thanks for the welcome.

-Derek Rees

-came to Swansea five years ago.

-He was the Baptist minister

-of two chapels...

-..Waunarlwydd, where the children's

-club takes place and Gomer chapel.

-Gomer chapel

-was sold a fortnight ago.

-They moved round the corner

-to Ty Tawe.

-How many of you are there?

-How many of you are there?

-

-This is it.

-This is the church.

-This is the church.

-

-There are a couple who are not here.

-You started five years ago

-in Gomer chapel.

-Yes, two minutes away.

-It was just me on the first Sunday.

-Preaching to yourself?!

-No, I didn't preach to myself!

-How many came on the second Sunday?

-How many came on the second Sunday?

-

-Three.

-That was an improvement.

-Then slowly, the numbers increased.

-Most remember their first visit.

-Some people have come and gone.

-We're 30 to 40 by now...

-..including everyone

-who has been involved with Gomer.

-Gomer was a traditional chapel.

-There were pews, the deacons' seat

-and the pulpit.

-We took out the pulpit and deacons'

-seat. It's just a stage now.

-That's gone now.

-We sit round a table.

-Was it too big?

-It was an unsuitable building,

-really.

-It was too big

-for a small gathering.

-The same can be said

-of many buildings in Wales.

-It was time to start. We reached

-for a chair and sat in a circle.

-No pulpit, no organ.

-There won't be any singing.

-Good afternoon.

-I hope you're alright.

-I think Tomos

-will begin with a psalm.

-I wanted to see the chapel itself.

-I left the service

-and headed towards Gomer.

-I'd expected a more

-traditional chapel.

-The plaque explains

-it's a fairly new chapel.

-In 1941, like most of Swansea...

-..the old chapel was destroyed.

-Chapel stones

-were used in the foundations.

-It's quite ironic, considering

-the congregation has left.

-The original building

-was important to the Baptists.

-The stones, the history.

-But to Derek, it's people,

-not stones, that are important.

-It's the experience

-as opposed to the culture.

-There are people who have been

-attending chapel for 80 years.

-People get overly attached

-to their buildings.

-These days, entering a chapel

-can be quite intimidating...

-..especially

-if you're not used to it.

-The tradition can help, sometimes.

-Most of the time,

-it's just in the way.

-We create traditions.

-We've been here a fortnight.

-As we meet here on a regular basis,

-we'll create new traditions.

-I've sat in the same seat

-for a fortnight!

-Slippery slope!

-I have to sit

-in a different seat next week.

-When I first went to Gomer...

-..I felt uncomfortable

-going to chapel.

-Mam and Dad said, "You have

-to go once, and we'll be happy."

-I didn't have to go every week.

-They wanted you to go

-because they believed.

-My grandfather encouraged my parents

-to talk to me.

-I hated Christianity.

-I came as an unbeliever.

-I didn't want to go to Gomer.

-I finally agreed to go one Sunday.

-I was nervous when I met Derek.

-I didn't know anything about him.

-I remember feeling at home in Gomer.

-Then Derek said, "Come to

-a study meeting. We'll have pizza."

-I was a first year student.

-I thought I'd go for the pizza!

-It's more than pizza.

-They met me halfway,

-but they didn't compromise, either.

-That's what counts.

-What about the people who say

-they will never be sure?

-Is there a chapel for them?

-Can chapels stay open for...

-Can chapels stay open for...

-

-Cultural reasons?

-Yes.

-If people are only attending

-chapel for cultural reasons...

-..they will stop coming altogether.

-They must feel they're coming

-to meet fellow Christians...

-..who believe in the same things.

-We're all different...

-..but we have a shared belief.

-We are all rooted in Jesus Christ.

-Chapel isn't a club.

-There are chapels that are

-just about surviving on culture...

-..and tradition.

-Welsh speakers

-don't turn to chapels for culture.

-That can't be the answer

-for keeping an institution going.

-There are not many people over 65,

-or rather, under 65...

-..there are plenty

-of over 65s in chapels!

-It's not the tradition or

-the culture that will keep it going.

-It will be the word of God.

-Before we left, Derek and the boys

-wanted to show me a video.

-Gareth and Tomos

-were baptized recently...

-..when they became Christians.

-It's Gareth's baptism

-on the video...

-..in the baptismal pool I looked for

-in the children's club.

-You baptized Tomos and Gareth.

-Yes. We saw Gareth.

-Rhodri was in the water too.

-It must have been

-an emotional experience.

-It was quite special.

-After the baptism, my father said

-a prayer for me. It was special.

-We are reborn. My Granddad

-prayed for me when I was baptized.

-He said,

-"I was there when Tomos was born.

-"I'm glad to see him

-being born again."

-It's a symbol of the change,

-of leaving the old person behind.

-Yes, immersed in water.

-Resurrection in Christ.

-Hallelujah.

-Y Felinheli and the Menai.

-It's hard to argue

-with experience...

-..to disagree when someone

-says their life has changed forever.

-I thought

-I'd had the same experience.

-The conversion

-changed me completely.

-I can't return to chapel

-for cultural reasons alone.

-More than anything...

-..what I've learnt is

-that culture isn't enough.

-It won't keep the chapels open,

-and the chapel isn't a club.

-I agree.

-As an atheist, I think it's a shame

-the chapels are closing.

-What will keep them open

-are the people who truly believe.

-I don't believe as I once did...

-..nor in the way Derek Rees

-and the crew believe.

-I still think...

-..it's the people who really believe

-that will keep the chapels going.

-That's the type of Christianity

-that will last.

-It'll last longer

-than it did for you.

-Yes. Thanks.

-The hardest question for me is,

-why didn't it last?

-I became a new person,

-and was reborn in Christ.

-What happened to that bloke?

-Why did I lose my faith?

-S4C Subtitles by Gwead

-.