10/07/2017 100 Days+


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10/07/2017

Katty Kay in Washington and Christian Fraser in London report on the events that are shaping our world.


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The Russia investigation takes a dramatic turn

:00:00.:00:12.

when President Trump's son admits to meeting a Russian operative.

:00:13.:00:17.

Donald Trump Jr changed his story about the 2016 meeting but now says

:00:18.:00:20.

he had hoped to find compromising evidence on the

:00:21.:00:22.

It's the first admission of it's kind, but is it collusion?

:00:23.:00:33.

Donald Trump Jr met the Russian lawyer in order to get the dirt.

:00:34.:00:36.

Jared Kushner and Trump's campaign manager also sat in.

:00:37.:00:40.

"Close to the dumbest idea I've ever heard" -

:00:41.:00:44.

that was one Republican senator's reaction to President Trump

:00:45.:00:47.

exploring a joint cyber task force with Putin.

:00:48.:00:51.

The Iraqi government declares victory in Mosul.

:00:52.:00:55.

There are celebrations in the streets as word spreads

:00:56.:00:59.

the city has been liberated from so-called Islamic State.

:01:00.:01:01.

But the battle has come at a terrible cost.

:01:02.:01:08.

Look at the devastation around here, the heavy fighting, pretty much

:01:09.:01:15.

every car and every building has been wrecked.

:01:16.:01:17.

Travelling the route of the New Silk Road.

:01:18.:01:19.

We have a special report on the trillion dollar project

:01:20.:01:23.

With no other country offering a big idea right now,

:01:24.:01:29.

this is the most ambitious bid to shape our century.

:01:30.:01:44.

Hello, I am Katty Kay in Washington, Christian Fraser is in London.

:01:45.:01:47.

Donald Trump's son, his campaign manager and his son in law,

:01:48.:01:53.

talked to a well-connected Russian in a meeting billed as a chance

:01:54.:01:56.

to get damaging information about Hillary Clinton.

:01:57.:01:58.

The June 2016 meeting is the first evidence that people

:01:59.:02:00.

in Donald Trump's inner circle did talk to Russians with the intention

:02:01.:02:03.

Donald Trump Jr has now confirmed both

:02:04.:02:09.

So is this meeting evidence of collusion?

:02:10.:02:15.

Or was it simply a chance for some legitimate opposition research?

:02:16.:02:18.

And how damaging is it to the President?

:02:19.:02:20.

All questions for Congress and the Special Prosecutor

:02:21.:02:22.

who are investigating ties between the Trump

:02:23.:02:24.

It doesn't help the Trump family that the meeting is only coming

:02:25.:02:30.

to light now because of press reporting, and that Donald Trump

:02:31.:02:33.

junior had to change his story about it over the weekend.

:02:34.:02:49.

key initially said it was about an adoption meeting but then change the

:02:50.:02:55.

story to say it was about this information.

:02:56.:03:05.

He said, we had a meeting in June 2016 and the woman said she had

:03:06.:03:12.

information about Mrs Clinton. So far five people have been forced to

:03:13.:03:16.

change the statements who are connected to Donald Trump. Trump the

:03:17.:03:23.

right, his son, Donald Trump Jr, the Attorney General Jeff Sessions,

:03:24.:03:25.

son-in-law Jared Kushner, for national security and -- national

:03:26.:03:32.

security adviser and then his former campaign manager Paul Manafort.

:03:33.:03:36.

At the G20 - and in various tweets over the weekend -

:03:37.:03:39.

the President continued to equivocate on whether Russian

:03:40.:03:41.

He even went so far as to suggest forming a joint cybersecurity

:03:42.:03:45.

unit with the Russians, to defend against election

:03:46.:03:47.

That idea brought this response from Republican Senator Lindsay Graham.

:03:48.:03:50.

When it comes to Russia he's got a blind spot,

:03:51.:03:57.

and to forgive and forget when it comes to Putin regarding cyber

:03:58.:04:00.

attacks is to empower Putin and that's exactly what he's doing.

:04:01.:04:03.

I am dumbfounded, I am disappointed, and at the end of the day he's

:04:04.:04:07.

hurting his presidency by not embracing the fact that

:04:08.:04:09.

Putin's a bad guy who tried to undercut our democracy and he's

:04:10.:04:12.

Also voicing concern was US Republican Senator

:04:13.:04:16.

Joining us now is Former National Security Advisor

:04:17.:04:35.

I will assume when you were national security adviser to President George

:04:36.:04:45.

Bush who and like this in the White House? We are an unprecedented space

:04:46.:04:52.

in so many respects. This is a president who ran as a political and

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surgeon to shake up Washington and that is what he is doing.

:04:56.:05:01.

How damaging is this to national security in America? We are an early

:05:02.:05:07.

days in this administration and they have clearly put down some markers

:05:08.:05:14.

about trades, about climate, the Bush administration in its opening

:05:15.:05:18.

day is pulled out of the Kyoto protocol which had been reached by

:05:19.:05:25.

the Clinton administration and we received a lot of criticism for

:05:26.:05:31.

that. I think we are early days and the question is on issues of trade

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and climate, what is the Trump administration going to do in place

:05:36.:05:39.

of that. You were at the G20 meetings in

:05:40.:05:45.

Warsaw and on this latest indication there were meetings between Donald

:05:46.:05:48.

Trump Jr and Russians operatives that have not previously been

:05:49.:05:51.

disclosed, why do you think this White House has not said to its

:05:52.:05:57.

members, every single meeting with a Russian operative must be disclosed

:05:58.:06:02.

now. Two reasons. One this is a up early

:06:03.:06:07.

on in the administration before has organised itself and secondly, the

:06:08.:06:15.

President's attitude is this is an unfair investigation and he will

:06:16.:06:20.

fight it at every step. An alternative approach is what

:06:21.:06:24.

President Reagan dead in Iran-Contra and seek this is a problem and I

:06:25.:06:29.

will get all the information out and get everyone to co-operate. I think

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the latter would be the better approach.

:06:35.:06:36.

Donald Trump spoke about the meeting with President Putin in Hamburg and

:06:37.:06:43.

said he pressed President Putin about Russian meddling in the

:06:44.:06:47.

election and said he denied it. You have lots of experience sitting

:06:48.:06:49.

opposite President Putin. What did you make of the meeting and what we

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have seen since? I think that part was pretty predictable, it's a good

:06:58.:07:02.

thing President Trump bracelets, it is not a surprise Putin would deny

:07:03.:07:08.

it, he done so consistently. The rest of the meeting was positive. I

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do not think the president made any mistakes. They have a narrow focused

:07:14.:07:17.

agreement on Syria which I think is a good thing, they apparently agreed

:07:18.:07:21.

to set up something of a working group to address other issues,

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including issues of them about Ukraine. Now a special envoy to deal

:07:27.:07:30.

with Ukraine. I think they are off to good start. Rex Tillerson did a

:07:31.:07:36.

good job and I would say it's a good start, incremental progress and no

:07:37.:07:42.

major mistakes. Well you are here, the other story of the day is the

:07:43.:07:48.

Iraqi Government declaring victory in Mosul. You were national security

:07:49.:07:50.

adviser and saw the demise of Al-Qaeda in Iraq which of

:07:51.:07:58.

course emerged again as Isis. Are you worried it might happen again?

:07:59.:08:04.

The most important thing now is what comes in behind Isis. Is there an

:08:05.:08:09.

effort to stabilise the situation and provide humanitarian assistance

:08:10.:08:13.

and get good local Government in place, get the economy going, jobs,

:08:14.:08:18.

if you do not do that, also addressed the sectarian tensions and

:08:19.:08:23.

get the differing groups talking. The risk if you do not do that is

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discontent continues and it will be a recruiting ground for Isis 2.0

:08:29.:08:33.

which will be even more brutal than Isis. Thank you for joining us. We

:08:34.:08:43.

will have more later on on the victory in Mosul the Iraqi

:08:44.:08:52.

Government is the clearing. On the Donald Trump Jr story, it is

:08:53.:08:59.

not unusual for digging an opposition politicians.

:09:00.:09:00.

Obviously I'm the first person on a campaign to ever take a meeting

:09:01.:09:04.

How bad do you think this is for the White House? Does this leads from

:09:05.:09:18.

this story to impeachment? No, certainly not. It's the first time

:09:19.:09:24.

that somebody close to Donald Trump was prepared to talk to the Russians

:09:25.:09:29.

about the campaign and information on Hillary Clinton. It does not look

:09:30.:09:33.

good for the president, izzard collusion? That will be the purview

:09:34.:09:41.

of the investigator. It is more ammunition for the investigations

:09:42.:09:45.

into the Trump Campion and their ties with the Russians. The house of

:09:46.:09:51.

representatives and Senate will not impeach at the moment. On Sunday the

:09:52.:09:56.

statement said, I went along to try and get dirt and she did not supply

:09:57.:10:00.

and therefore no story but in some measure it shows they were trying to

:10:01.:10:03.

potentially collude with the Russians.

:10:04.:10:09.

It seems to show they were trying to get information and that is what

:10:10.:10:12.

Donald Trump Jr went to that meeting for. The other question is how could

:10:13.:10:16.

he possibly have forgotten the meeting and why did it not,

:10:17.:10:20.

previously. The Trump administration seems

:10:21.:10:21.

unable to escape this Russian story. Yes, the next three

:10:22.:10:28.

weeks is supposed to be health care legislation passed,

:10:29.:10:30.

and even move on to tax reform. But right now prospects

:10:31.:10:34.

are looking pretty bleak. Joining us now is Republican

:10:35.:10:36.

political analyst Ron Christie. I was hearing a Republican senator

:10:37.:10:50.

this morning sending we can get on the health care and tax reform and

:10:51.:10:54.

the Russian investigation is separate. What do you think? I think

:10:55.:10:59.

they can but the Republican caucus is an somewhat of a disarray. You

:11:00.:11:03.

would think after eight years of being a political wilderness and not

:11:04.:11:06.

having the White House or Congress Senate Republicans would have a

:11:07.:11:13.

coherent message and legislation to what to do about health care and

:11:14.:11:18.

become less weak and they are in a rush, they go out again in a couple

:11:19.:11:22.

of weeks for a month so you think they would have something concrete.

:11:23.:11:27.

I am cautiously optimistic me Senate will put forward legislation but the

:11:28.:11:30.

question is whatever the Senate does can pass the house of

:11:31.:11:33.

representatives which is much more conservative than the Senate.

:11:34.:11:37.

How serious is this Donald Trump junior Russian story is? Not so

:11:38.:11:45.

important. I worked on several campaigns and if someone told me we

:11:46.:11:52.

have dirt on opponents. Would you like to meet, of course I would say

:11:53.:12:01.

that meeting. If a Russian said that to you? I think the interest here

:12:02.:12:06.

anything attached with Russia plus Donald Trump is collusion or

:12:07.:12:11.

obstruction or is illegal. I think that is a fallacy. We have had

:12:12.:12:15.

strong disagreements on this programme and I have been leading

:12:16.:12:18.

the charge about what the president is doing but just by the fact Donald

:12:19.:12:23.

Trump Jr happy meeting with someone he did not know and succeeded in

:12:24.:12:30.

cremation -- had information on the secretary of state, I don't think

:12:31.:12:35.

that is a problem. If he knew he was meeting a Russian, that is more

:12:36.:12:40.

problematic. It is not. You're talking about someone who was not

:12:41.:12:45.

paid employee of the campaign and just because someone from a foreign

:12:46.:12:49.

country asked to meet does not make it illegal. I met with several

:12:50.:12:53.

officials from foreign governments who sought my opinion on a variety

:12:54.:12:58.

of issues and just because they are from a foreign Government or a

:12:59.:13:00.

foreign citizen does not necessarily make them illegal or make this

:13:01.:13:06.

collusion or anything other than trying to have a business

:13:07.:13:10.

transaction, in my view. Let me take you back to the programme in

:13:11.:13:16.

Congress because it seems to me Donald Trump is the one who keeps

:13:17.:13:19.

saying health care reform will be coming and is putting pressure on

:13:20.:13:23.

himself and legislation like this does not take a long time to push

:13:24.:13:25.

through. It took Ronald Reagan 5 years and 9

:13:26.:13:26.

months to pass his Tax Reform Act - the more significant step

:13:27.:13:30.

in the creation of Reagonomics. Bill Clinton campaigned to change

:13:31.:13:32.

parts of that legislation - it took him 203 days to raise taxes

:13:33.:13:35.

on high earners and cut some And the Affordable Care Act

:13:36.:13:38.

took 426 days to pass. Which is perhaps the most

:13:39.:13:45.

relevant time scale - this after all is the legislation

:13:46.:13:47.

Donald Trump wants to We other currently 171. Why is he

:13:48.:14:01.

putting so much pressure on Congress? I think he believes he

:14:02.:14:07.

needs a legislative victory. This is as much about optics as anything

:14:08.:14:12.

else. In the Bush administration it took ayes over one year to get his

:14:13.:14:18.

signature no Child left behind legislation done. If you will pass

:14:19.:14:23.

something to really revamp one sixth of the American economy I say don't

:14:24.:14:26.

do it right and be very measured and let's make sure we get some

:14:27.:14:33.

bipartisanship to do this right. -- I say we do this right. I think to

:14:34.:14:40.

rush this through his misguided. They need to do it all right if they

:14:41.:14:46.

are going to get it done. -- do it right.

:14:47.:14:53.

The Iraqi government is declaring victory in Mosul,

:14:54.:14:55.

the largest city under IS control, after nine months of fighting.

:14:56.:14:57.

The prime minister, Haider al-Abadi, visited the city

:14:58.:14:59.

Our victory today is a victory against darkness, brutality and

:15:00.:15:19.

terrorism. I declare from this place, I declare to the whole world,

:15:20.:15:24.

the end and the failure and the collapse of the so-called caliphate.

:15:25.:15:28.

Our correspondent Jonathan Beale is in the city where troops this

:15:29.:15:30.

morning were still dealing with the last few pockets

:15:31.:15:32.

We are at the front line of one of the last pockets, we are told, of

:15:33.:15:53.

resistance. There are snipers up there, 200 to 300.

:15:54.:15:57.

But you can see the devastation around here from the heavy fighting.

:15:58.:16:00.

Even though the Iraqi Prime Minister said they are on the verge

:16:01.:16:05.

of victory, in his words, there is still a battle ahead,

:16:06.:16:08.

there is still IS fighters out there and the battle for Mosul

:16:09.:16:12.

Let's speak to the head of American troops in Iraq and Syria. Thank you

:16:13.:16:33.

for joining us. There is a big delay on the line. Thank you. Actually I

:16:34.:16:41.

am the head of all coalition troops. There is a long delay on the line.

:16:42.:16:47.

You one Mac the war but securing the peace will be much more difficult.

:16:48.:16:59.

Well, I think I take exception we have won the war. I would like to

:17:00.:17:03.

offer coalition's congratulations to the Iraqi Prime Minister and the

:17:04.:17:10.

Iraqi security forces on their historic victory. They also made

:17:11.:17:16.

some extraordinary efforts to safeguard civilian lakes. I would

:17:17.:17:21.

say the war is far from over, this is one major battle has concluded.

:17:22.:17:27.

There are a number of Isis fighters still left in Iraq that will have to

:17:28.:17:31.

be defeated before we have won the war. Lots of little towns where you

:17:32.:17:36.

will have to fight between Mosul and Baghdad but if and when the fighting

:17:37.:17:41.

is over, talking about that piece, I read today there are 25 million

:17:42.:17:47.

Sunnis between Baghdad and Damascus whose governments have failed them.

:17:48.:17:51.

What do these governments have to do to make Sunnis feel part of the

:17:52.:18:02.

country they live in? I think you hit on the essential

:18:03.:18:07.

issue which is the cause of Isis in the first place. The Government of

:18:08.:18:16.

Iraq did not make the SUNY people feel as if their Government

:18:17.:18:20.

represented the interests and fell prey to Isis. And if we are to keep

:18:21.:18:29.

Isis, the next Isis, from emerging, we will have two, the Iraqi

:18:30.:18:36.

Government will have to do something significantly different and reach

:18:37.:18:40.

out and reconcile with the Sunni population and make them feel like

:18:41.:18:44.

their Government in Baghdad represents them.

:18:45.:18:51.

You today said make no mistake, this victory alone does not eliminate

:18:52.:18:56.

Isis and there is still a tough fight ahead. What have you learned

:18:57.:19:01.

from fighting, both the coalition and the Iraqi forces, learn from

:19:02.:19:07.

fighting Isis in Mosul that will be useful in ...

:19:08.:19:20.

This is a brutal, evil enemy. A very determined one. So one of the things

:19:21.:19:27.

I learned is this fight will take longer than we anticipated. All sort

:19:28.:19:35.

that fighting in cities, I already knew this as a professional soldier,

:19:36.:19:40.

how difficult it was to fight in urban areas, but I never saw

:19:41.:19:43.

fighting on this extend the duration and scale. We are applying all those

:19:44.:19:51.

lessons to the fight we are already engaged in the global capital of

:19:52.:19:56.

Isis in Syria. It was the American decision under

:19:57.:20:00.

President Obama to pull American forces out of Iraq that enabled Isis

:20:01.:20:07.

to grow in the region, in part, will American forces now keep a presence

:20:08.:20:13.

in Iraq for longer, to stop Isis 2.0 from re-emerging?

:20:14.:20:24.

I think so. Those decisions have yet to be made. However, there is an

:20:25.:20:30.

ongoing dialogue between the Government of Iraq, the Government

:20:31.:20:36.

of the USA and the governments of other coalition members nations. To

:20:37.:20:41.

have a continued coalition presence here after the defeat of Isis, and I

:20:42.:20:45.

think that is exactly one of the things we need to do to keep that is

:20:46.:20:49.

going down the right path in the future. Thank you very much for

:20:50.:20:57.

joining us. Even on the state when you have the

:20:58.:21:01.

Iraqi Government declaring victory in Mosul, everyone is being

:21:02.:21:07.

cautious. Both our guests being cautious, they are all aware of

:21:08.:21:11.

history and the risks of repeating itself, and the complications of the

:21:12.:21:16.

politics of this and the need to make sure all the different

:21:17.:21:20.

sectarian groups feel vested in these countries and do not turn

:21:21.:21:24.

against their governments and enable a future Isis to re-emerge.

:21:25.:21:32.

They fought and defeated Al-Qaeda in Iraq and out of that has come

:21:33.:21:37.

so-called Islamic state. The Prime Minister of Iraq, who the Americans

:21:38.:21:44.

do like, I believe, spoke about how the effective federalism, devolving

:21:45.:21:50.

power to Sunnis and also to Kurds, who have taken a lot of ground in

:21:51.:21:54.

this site that they are reticent to give up. All the sides in this one

:21:55.:22:01.

clear and straight and after their security and security and education

:22:02.:22:04.

and policing so they will have, if they want to secure a peace, they

:22:05.:22:08.

will have two devolve more power from Baghdad. The question, as

:22:09.:22:14.

Stephen touched on, it's how much appetite isn't there in America

:22:15.:22:21.

politically to keep an American force of several thousand,

:22:22.:22:25.

presumably, in Iraq in the long-term." President Obama was to

:22:26.:22:29.

remove those trips and how much political support got for that. Are

:22:30.:22:35.

Americans prepared to say this is a long-term fight, even after Mosul

:22:36.:22:40.

has fallen and it looks like Isis has been rolled back.

:22:41.:22:46.

I'm sure there will but what we do not talk about is the rebuilding

:22:47.:22:51.

effort. There are around 60 countries with the UN who have

:22:52.:22:54.

contributed money to rebuild in places like Mosul and that will be

:22:55.:22:57.

the first challenge, making sure people feel safe enough to come

:22:58.:23:04.

back. Looking at the report we saw of the

:23:05.:23:07.

sort of destruction and devastation in Mosul that will be no easy thing

:23:08.:23:11.

to secure. Lots to do in Iraq. The UN envoy to Syria says

:23:12.:23:14.

a ceasefire in the southwest of the country has held quite well

:23:15.:23:17.

since it went into force on Sunday. It's hoped the truce might give

:23:18.:23:20.

the negotiations some momentum. Staffan De Mistura said

:23:21.:23:22.

the de-escalation of the conflict in south-western Syria should be

:23:23.:23:25.

a stage on the path A judge at the High Court in London

:23:26.:23:27.

says he will reconsider on Thursday the case of Charlie Gard,

:23:28.:23:34.

the terminally ill baby, who has been offered treatment

:23:35.:23:37.

in the United States. The 11 month old boy has a rare

:23:38.:23:41.

disease and is being kept Charlie's parents want the judge

:23:42.:23:44.

to evaluate an experimental treatment which they believe

:23:45.:23:51.

could improve their son's Meanwhile, the High Court has

:23:52.:23:53.

rejected a case brought against the British government

:23:54.:23:59.

claiming it's arms sales The case was brought by human rights

:24:00.:24:01.

campaigners who argue the UK is breaking international laws

:24:02.:24:05.

by selling weapons that have The Saudis have been conducting air

:24:06.:24:07.

strikes against the Houthi rebels We have had a lot of CBS News today

:24:08.:24:22.

around the world but we just have time for a video of Donald Trump and

:24:23.:24:27.

his good deeds of the day. While returning from T20 meetings in

:24:28.:24:32.

Germany here he is boarding Marine one but the wind was clearly blowing

:24:33.:24:37.

up a deal but lights on his feet, the president receives the marine's

:24:38.:24:42.

cap and places it back on his head, only for it to blow off again. Not

:24:43.:24:48.

to be defeated, the president chases at once more. Windy days and hats.

:24:49.:24:57.

I've noticed the presidential tie was also flapping.

:24:58.:25:04.

I thought that was a really nice gesture. There is the Marine

:25:05.:25:07.

standing stiff as a board, not allowed to move.

:25:08.:25:12.

Nice touch from the president on his way back to the White House.

:25:13.:25:18.

Plenty more to come. You are watching 100 Days Plus from BBC

:25:19.:25:21.

News. Still to come, Ukraine says it will

:25:22.:25:28.

begin discussions to join Nato. We will try and find out how Russia

:25:29.:25:33.

would feel about that and whether Nato is on board with the timetable.

:25:34.:25:38.

We will talk about the new silk Road. We have spoke a lot about

:25:39.:25:43.

globalisation in recent weeks but what about the new globalisation, a

:25:44.:25:48.

report on the trillion dollar real project between China and Europe.

:25:49.:25:53.

That's all still to come here on 100 Days Plus on BBC News.

:25:54.:26:10.

It has been a day of mixed fortunes today. Some sunshine in the

:26:11.:26:16.

south-east and Beeson spelt further north. Glorious pictures sent in

:26:17.:26:24.

from the Highlands. Also some sharp thundery downpours. Those showers

:26:25.:26:33.

are drifting into the North Sea was some still remaining in northern

:26:34.:26:37.

England and Scotland. We end the day in southern England with decent

:26:38.:26:43.

sunshine. Highs of 27 Celsius. Things will start to change through

:26:44.:26:48.

tonight as cloud and rain gathers in from the West and particularly in

:26:49.:26:52.

Wales and south-west England. Not as humid as previous nights. We start

:26:53.:27:01.

off with some rain across England and Wales and more significant wet

:27:02.:27:04.

weather arriving later in the day affecting England and Wales and

:27:05.:27:09.

certainly affecting Wimbledon throughout the afternoon. Some rain

:27:10.:27:14.

turning quite heavy. A brief role in the middle of the day so not bad for

:27:15.:27:20.

the courts early on but more significant rain arrives. For

:27:21.:27:25.

Scotland and Northern Ireland, not too bad and northern England with

:27:26.:27:30.

sunny spells and scattered showers. Perhaps Northern Ireland will see

:27:31.:27:32.

the best of the weather throughout the day. Temperatures way down on

:27:33.:27:40.

what we have seen for southern England. Showers turning heavier and

:27:41.:27:45.

more persistent throughout the afternoon into the south-west. That

:27:46.:27:53.

rain pushes steadily eastwards through the night, some heavy,

:27:54.:27:58.

welcome news for the gardens. Behind that area of low pressure the winds

:27:59.:28:03.

swing to a northerly making it feel noticeably fresher on Wednesday.

:28:04.:28:07.

Despite a good deal of dry weather on Wednesday with sunny spells. The

:28:08.:28:15.

quieter theme looks set to continue Thursday into Friday, a good deal of

:28:16.:28:19.

dry weather, scattering of isolated showers. Not all doom and gloom but

:28:20.:28:24.

certainly feeling noticeably fresher and there will be rain at times but

:28:25.:28:28.

also some sunny spells. The welcome party plus. Our top

:28:29.:30:19.

stories: The Russian investigation takes a dramatic turn in Donald

:30:20.:30:24.

Trump as Nixon admits to reaching special meeting a Russian. I think

:30:25.:30:32.

the President's attitude is that this is an unfair investigation

:30:33.:30:35.

commies going to fight it at every step of the way. President Trump has

:30:36.:30:40.

ruled out exploring a joint cyber task force with Russia, a backdown

:30:41.:30:44.

on the idea after one Republican senator described it as close to the

:30:45.:30:45.

dumbest idea I've ever heard. Today, Ukraine's president said that

:30:46.:31:02.

Nato has agreed to begin talks over joining the alliance. Speaking

:31:03.:31:06.

alongside Nato's Secretary General, the president said he would

:31:07.:31:09.

implement the reforms necessary by 2020. It comes as Ukraine continues

:31:10.:31:14.

to fight a Russian backed insurgency in the east of the country.

:31:15.:31:19.

Moscow responded today by saying Ukraine's potential ownership in

:31:20.:31:22.

Nato would not boost security and stability in Europe. We are joined

:31:23.:31:27.

by a former senior director for Russian affairs at the UN Security

:31:28.:31:32.

Council in the Obama administration. It's interesting, mail, from the

:31:33.:31:34.

Ukrainian Government, we have heard from Moscow, but I haven't heard

:31:35.:31:40.

anything publicly from Nato. It is Ukraine driving the timetable on

:31:41.:31:43.

this, is Nato fully on board? I think it remains to be seen exactly

:31:44.:31:49.

what was agreed to. Ukraine has an interest in leaning forward a bit

:31:50.:31:53.

and talking about membership. From Nato's perspective, from the

:31:54.:31:57.

perspective of key allies including Germany and the United States,,

:31:58.:32:01.

membership of Ukraine is not on the cards at this point. A close

:32:02.:32:04.

relationship is, help with defence and military assistance, but I think

:32:05.:32:10.

we're at the beginning of a conversation about what relations of

:32:11.:32:14.

Ukraine will have up with Nato over the long run. Polls in Ukraine show

:32:15.:32:16.

that ever since the Russian intervention in the east of the

:32:17.:32:21.

country and in Premier, there is much more support in favour of

:32:22.:32:25.

joining Nato membership in Ukraine than they used to be. -- and in

:32:26.:32:31.

Crimea. But Russia says it won't increased about it, this is kind of

:32:32.:32:36.

a red rag to Moscow, isn't it? Russians have objected to the Madrid

:32:37.:32:40.

of Nato from the get go, going back to the early 1990s. -- to the

:32:41.:32:48.

embodiment of Nato. But Britain come in some ways, is responsible -- pleb

:32:49.:32:58.

won is responsible, for this U-turn in foreign policy. But again, and we

:32:59.:33:09.

are the very beginning of a conversation, and it may well be

:33:10.:33:12.

that we have to wait for several years before we get a better sense

:33:13.:33:15.

of whether Ukraine has a serious chance of becoming a member. We had

:33:16.:33:24.

on the show last week, very timely, the man who has been named as the

:33:25.:33:28.

special Robson to do to Ukraine. It is has been said is a hardliner when

:33:29.:33:33.

they comes to matters in Kiev. -- the special representative to

:33:34.:33:37.

Ukraine. In terms of the Russian investigation, it's very difficult

:33:38.:33:42.

to know,? Of weird habits conversation earlier in the year, I

:33:43.:33:45.

would have said that the cupboard Ministry 's and seems to be doing a

:33:46.:33:49.

somersault on Ukraine -- the Trump administration, he had talked about

:33:50.:33:55.

three Ukraine under the bus, recognising Crimea, dropping

:33:56.:33:57.

sanctions, but since then they have tax towards a more conventional

:33:58.:34:04.

position. The President made a point of meeting with the Ukrainian

:34:05.:34:08.

president, he flew to Poland, which is on the survival of Nato, the US

:34:09.:34:14.

has said that sanctions that are at least van Gogh Nato, yes said that

:34:15.:34:18.

sanctions will remain in place. So they are now at the point of saying

:34:19.:34:23.

that pulses looked huge remain in place, and it is now up to us see if

:34:24.:34:33.

we can't get Dunn it's essentially up to the Russians to agree together

:34:34.:34:39.

troops out and stop the separatism rebellion, and in return, Ukraine

:34:40.:34:42.

grants the region at high level of a tummy. -- autonomy. On the show, we

:34:43.:34:52.

spend a lot of time exploring common themes across the abundant. Tonight,

:34:53.:34:55.

we have an author who makes the case for us in his new book. He makes the

:34:56.:35:02.

case for white prince. Democracy are under threat.

:35:03.:35:08.

He says that America has been ceding its role ever since the invasion of

:35:09.:35:13.

Iraq and that China will inevitably fill the global power vacuum. Ed,

:35:14.:35:18.

thank you very much for coming into the studio. Donald Trump, Brexit,

:35:19.:35:22.

the populism that we have seen in other countries in Europe, the

:35:23.:35:25.

symptoms of what you're talking about or are the also causes of it?

:35:26.:35:29.

I think they're about. But this has been a long time in coming. There

:35:30.:35:36.

has been a source of... Perhaps self soothing interpretation of 2016

:35:37.:35:39.

Brexit and Trump is just being the weird, volcanic eruptions in the

:35:40.:35:45.

other rows dormant range of Western liberal democracy and that would be

:35:46.:35:48.

a serious up misreading of how deeply rooted and structural the

:35:49.:35:51.

middle of our middle economy is our feeling. The middle of the economy

:35:52.:36:01.

has an impact on politics. If you're looking for an optimistic, feel-good

:36:02.:36:04.

beak Street, I'm guessing this is not really. But how bleak are you,

:36:05.:36:10.

how bleak do you feel about the prospects for the Western liberal

:36:11.:36:15.

democracy? Is it really price point? Its crisis point, but maybe it is

:36:16.:36:19.

called the retreat, and my publishers wanted it to be called

:36:20.:36:22.

the collapse of Western liberalisation, and I argued against

:36:23.:36:27.

that, because retreat implies the possibility of regrouping to stop

:36:28.:36:31.

what we have seen in France with Emanuel Macron's victory, and Angela

:36:32.:36:36.

Merkel trying to revive the Franco German motor, that is definitely a

:36:37.:36:42.

glass of champagne half full. And in context, the rest of the world, the

:36:43.:36:46.

non-Western is falling out of poverty at a faster rate than ever

:36:47.:36:49.

before in team in history. That is good news. Our ability to cope with

:36:50.:36:59.

the jubilant impact of that is not something that fills me with

:37:00.:37:02.

optimism there. -- the geopolitical impact. It has been said before that

:37:03.:37:08.

things will be better for children than for us, but that has stopped,

:37:09.:37:12.

that is driving some of the resembled politics. There is, I

:37:13.:37:16.

think, a Champagne moment in Europe with Emanuel Macron and that is

:37:17.:37:20.

driving a rapprochement between Germany and France. But I wonder how

:37:21.:37:26.

long that will last? Because you can't tell me that those elements

:37:27.:37:28.

that were there, that were supporting the front National and

:37:29.:37:32.

supporting the far left, they have not disappeared, have they? They

:37:33.:37:39.

haven't. And it is troubling to see that e-mail Macron's victory was on

:37:40.:37:47.

a historic low turnout, it's a really thin mandate that he has. And

:37:48.:37:51.

of course, his plan is to get the Germans to relax, they are very,

:37:52.:37:57.

militaristic fiscal rules. The Germans committed in their DNA to do

:37:58.:38:03.

this. Unless he can persuade angler Marco -- angler Marco -- Angela

:38:04.:38:09.

Merkel that it is in their interests to do this, the suffering parts of

:38:10.:38:16.

the European Union are going to get more populous and resentful. I

:38:17.:38:19.

surely caution implicit in your question. I wish we could top more

:38:20.:38:24.

about it, we are running out of time. Thank you for coming on and

:38:25.:38:28.

talking about your book. The agents at road was the world's

:38:29.:38:34.

first superhighway. -- the ancient silk Road. Now, China is hoping to

:38:35.:38:40.

recreate that route. The critics say Beijing is trying to exert its

:38:41.:38:43.

influence on all 60 countries that are investing in it, but Mel -- many

:38:44.:38:51.

could well be indebted for decades. Starting in China, the route winds

:38:52.:38:55.

its way past Indonesia, Sri Lanka and ends up in Europe. At the same

:38:56.:38:59.

time and that there will be a land-based networks making west

:39:00.:39:08.

through central Russia. They call them the ships of the

:39:09.:39:15.

desert. For centuries, the camel trains of the silk Road dominated

:39:16.:39:21.

trade between China and the west. Now, China wants to recreate the

:39:22.:39:34.

silk Road. This time, by train. When this man started here, 34 years ago,

:39:35.:39:39.

China sold the role next to nothing. Now, he is a foot soldier for a

:39:40.:39:45.

trading superpower. I asked how that had changed him. TRANSLATION: We are

:39:46.:39:55.

under a lot of pressure. Expectations are high but there is

:39:56.:40:00.

also a lot of hope. We need the training to develop faster and

:40:01.:40:05.

better. The pressure is coming from the top. Not led by merchants... But

:40:06.:40:14.

by a president. Chinese emperors once claimed to rule all under

:40:15.:40:19.

heaven. With the United States no longer leading on trade, the

:40:20.:40:25.

president has seized his chance. He calls his vision... His vision may

:40:26.:40:39.

be so vast that it may be so decades until we can tell whether it is a

:40:40.:40:43.

successor to the entrance will grow. But we can say that with no country

:40:44.:40:46.

offering a big idea right now, that this is the most ambitious bid to

:40:47.:40:55.

shape our century. Already, Chinashapes our material lives. But

:40:56.:41:02.

selling abroad and building at home is no longer enough to keep the

:41:03.:41:05.

strange economy growing. Now, it plans to build a broad two. A

:41:06.:41:13.

win-win for all, says China. But when the talking is done, Chinese

:41:14.:41:20.

traders drive a hard bargain. ,, for an old friend. The world by much

:41:21.:41:26.

more from them than the other way round. Red tape can make importing a

:41:27.:41:32.

nightmare. The Government can change the law at any time. So there is no

:41:33.:41:38.

real concrete law. There is no grey area at the moment. -- there is a

:41:39.:41:44.

grey area. If the Government made it more clear, it would be easier. But

:41:45.:41:48.

the new Silk Road is China solving China's problems. Money and muscle

:41:49.:41:54.

heading west. On a journey across three continents. Bidding to redraw

:41:55.:42:06.

the map and command the century. It's strange to think isn't it, that

:42:07.:42:13.

the old Silk Road, 2000 years ago, was the first ex-parent and

:42:14.:42:18.

globalisation. -- the first experiment. And now they are

:42:19.:42:23.

recreating it. And we have talked a lot on this programme, if America

:42:24.:42:27.

loan, China is well prepared to step into this vacuum. -- if America

:42:28.:42:37.

first means America alone. We have really enjoyed doing this

:42:38.:42:40.

programme, behind the scenes, of course, there's a fantastic team who

:42:41.:42:47.

have really helped us. We would like to say happy birthday to our editor,

:42:48.:42:50.

Kate. There was chocolate cake as well. I

:42:51.:42:54.

didn't get any chocolate cake, here in Washington. None.

:42:55.:42:58.

We will see you tomorrow, do join us tomorrow.

:42:59.:43:02.