Life, Death and Enormous Amounts of Money BBC Scotland Investigates


Life, Death and Enormous Amounts of Money

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This nurse has three small vials of medicine worth �9,000. Each

:00:11.:00:18.

patient's bill for this one drug is �250,000 a year. There are scenes

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like this across Scotland. Behind the smiles is a ci

:00:24.:00:29.

circumstances drugs like these cost huge amounts and treat only a few.

:00:29.:00:33.

They make drug companies a fortune, but are they bankrupting the vfs?

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- NHS? The drug market is $50 billion and growing.

:00:42.:00:46.

With Scottish health boards looking to make cuts, can we expect it?

:00:46.:00:53.

expect we will be looking back and thinking, "Did we really pay that

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for that small amount of benefit?". Are drug companies holding the NHS

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to rand dom? Firdapse is an example of unbridled greed.

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Tonight BBC Scotland Scotland investigates, life, drugs and

:01:09.:01:19.
:01:19.:01:31.

For thousands of of years plants like these formed the basis of our

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medicines. But times have changed. This is an investigation into some

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remarkable drugs and the amazing prices some companies are prepared

:01:44.:01:49.

to charge for them. 30 years ago, if you developed a rare disease,

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the chances are none of the big drug companies would have been

:01:56.:02:02.

looking for a cure. It wasn't their worthwhile for a mere handful of

:02:03.:02:08.

patients. But the US and the EU brought forward incentives to

:02:08.:02:11.

encourage drug companies to fin treatments for the rare and brutal

:02:11.:02:19.

diseases. They call them orphan drugs. Drug companies were given

:02:19.:02:24.

fast-tracks through the clinical testing process, extra long patents

:02:24.:02:30.

and a monopoly on supply. They were given tax breaks and subsidies,

:02:30.:02:36.

extra help and encouragement to make the much-needed medicines. And

:02:36.:02:40.

it worked perhaps too well. Today, drug companies are making billions

:02:40.:02:45.

of pounds out of these orphan drugs. Many, but not all of them, are

:02:45.:02:49.

remarkable medicines, but can the NHS in Scotland afford to keep

:02:49.:02:59.
:02:59.:03:00.

shelling out millions of pounds on them every year?

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Lesley Loeliger is an electronics engineer. She used to travel the

:03:04.:03:08.

world, now she looks after her family because seven years ago, she

:03:08.:03:13.

was struck by a mysterious illness. I was having to be carried up and

:03:13.:03:17.

downstairs. I was having to be dressed and undressed. I couldn't

:03:17.:03:22.

even do that for myself. Sometimes when I was so bad and I was so

:03:22.:03:25.

exhausted I couldn't turn over in bed. It was that bad.

:03:25.:03:29.

What Lesley didn't know she developed an orphan disease. A

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condition so rare it baffled her doctors for over 18 months. When

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the diagnosis came, it was devastating.

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He said you have paraxize monocturnal haemoglobin. PMH for

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sport. It is a bone marrow disease with a survival rate of ten years.

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To stop a deadly blot clot forming, less by was given transfusions

:03:54.:03:59.

every six weeks. They kept her alive, but her quality of life

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remained low. I ached the hole time. My muscles

:04:03.:04:07.

were aching. I had difficulty swallowing and pains in my stomach

:04:07.:04:14.

and headaches. At about that time I was also made aware of a drug that

:04:14.:04:20.

was available for PMH. We were told it is not a cure for PMH but it can

:04:20.:04:25.

give a person their quality of life back and that drug is Soliris.

:04:25.:04:29.

Soliris is the world's most expensive drug. It costs about

:04:29.:04:35.

�250,000 a year for each patient. It is made by the American drugs

:04:35.:04:42.

firm. It spent 15 years and $800 million developing. It is the first

:04:42.:04:47.

and only drug approved to treat Lesley's condition.

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When I heard about the drug, I was told, you are not funded. You are

:04:51.:04:56.

not likely to get it. It is one of the most expensive drugs. That was

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the end of the conversation really, but the consultants were trying to

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get me the drug. The Scottish Medicines Consortium

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says Soliris isn't cost effective and does not recommend its use. The

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drugs company says its its price is fair because it bore costs and

:05:14.:05:19.

risks in the drug's development. They say the value reflects several

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factors including that a third of patients died within five years

:05:22.:05:27.

before Soliris was available and governments and private insurers in

:05:27.:05:32.

over 35 countries recognise the life transforming value of Soliris.

:05:32.:05:36.

The company says it continues to spend a great deal on the

:05:36.:05:44.

manufacturer of the drug and on support for people with PMH.

:05:44.:05:47.

Lesley's doctors were able to persuade the Health Secretary her

:05:47.:05:54.

case was exceptional exception andal and -- exceptional and

:05:54.:06:00.

Soliris should be prescribed. To me this drug is a miracle. My

:06:00.:06:03.

family had to face the possibility of me going in ten years. My

:06:03.:06:07.

husband had to face the chance of bringing up the children on his own.

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My mum and dad faced the pont of lose -- possibility of losing their

:06:11.:06:21.

daughter and I appear to be getting better. I am just so grateful.

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Because it is so expensive, the Health Secretary only allows eight

:06:24.:06:31.

other people with PMH in Scotland to get Soliris. Three other people

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aren't so lucky. Their case isn't considered exceptional enough. One

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thing is certain, it is an exceptional price tag. For people

:06:46.:06:50.

who have been helped by a medicine like Soliris, it is worth its

:06:50.:06:54.

weight in gold. The trouble is that for the National Health Service, it

:06:54.:07:04.
:07:04.:07:06.

costs more than 300 times its weight in gold.

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But with so few patients, why is it worth making Soliris at all?

:07:13.:07:20.

I asked Dr Kiran Meekings, a business analyst. She co-authored

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this report on the future of orphan drugs. Soliris up until this year

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is the world's most expensive drug and in 2012 it is estimated to make

:07:33.:07:38.

make �1 billion in sales. Analysts think expectations is that it will

:07:38.:07:43.

make up to �2 billion because of increased re-positioning into other

:07:43.:07:47.

diseases. It can do this because it has a small number of patients, it

:07:47.:07:52.

charges the high price. And that's just Soliris. There are

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dozens of orphan drugs treat ago range of rare diseases. They are

:07:56.:07:58.

special drugs and because they treat rare diseases they get

:07:58.:08:03.

special treatment from lawmakers on both sides of the Atlantic.

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Research subsidies, tax breaks, relaxed testing protocols.

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The open drug market the moment is $50 billion US dollars and growing.

:08:13.:08:18.

It is growing at 6% per year. Soon that's going to become a large sum

:08:18.:08:22.

of money. With regards to the future projections, it would be

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interesting to see what the market can bear because at some point

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payers and reimbursers, there will be a ceiling on the prices the

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drugs can procure. It is just when we reach them.

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In the UK, the payers are us, through the NHS and that means the

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drug companies are making millions. Here in Glasgow, they are holding a

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national conference for the growing number of people who have been kept

:08:51.:09:01.
:09:01.:09:02.

alive by another orphan drug. It is called Imatinib. 15 years ago these

:09:02.:09:06.

people's diagnoses, chronic myeloid leukaemia was a death sentence.

:09:06.:09:11.

was diagnosed about three years ago and it came as a shock. I never

:09:11.:09:15.

heard of CML. Life doesn't get any better. It is

:09:15.:09:19.

a second chance of life. All of a sudden, you have got cancer, it is

:09:19.:09:23.

not that bad. You got a little Tablet that can --

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tablet that can control it. It made such a difference for myself and my

:09:27.:09:31.

family and my friends. But is it worth it? To the patients,

:09:31.:09:35.

yes. I think that cost whilst it is a

:09:35.:09:39.

big factor, it has to be looked at the life it is giving to us. This

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hit me out of the blue as it may well hit anyone who is out there.

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When you have that phone call and you are sat down opposite somebody

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who says, "I can give you a normal life and it is going to cost you

:09:54.:10:00.

�25,000 ." You will take that and anyone watching this will take that.

:10:00.:10:10.
:10:10.:10:12.

But turning a a fatal condition into one that people can expect to

:10:12.:10:20.

life life as long as us. Gleevec is a success story because it had six

:10:20.:10:24.

independent orphan approvals which many it can realise over �4 billion

:10:24.:10:30.

in one year. Gleevec now treats 200,000 people

:10:30.:10:35.

worldwide. People who don't just have CML, but other cancers too. It

:10:35.:10:42.

is forecast that people with CML will cost the NHS across the UK �2

:10:42.:10:46.

to �3 billion over ten years. Is it right that orphan drugs should be

:10:46.:10:52.

priced on this kind of scale? That would would pay for 25,000 heart

:10:52.:10:56.

transplants. Daphne Austin knows the effect

:10:56.:11:00.

these high drug prices are having on the NHS. She used to have to

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make decision about which life- saving drug should be funded or not

:11:05.:11:08.

funded during her time working there.

:11:09.:11:16.

We now have drugs that are so highly priced, you are looking at

:11:16.:11:21.

maybe spending, you know, �10 million for one person's treatment

:11:21.:11:26.

for one drug over the course of their lifetime. And personally, I

:11:26.:11:33.

think that's too high. I think we have lost some sense of proportion.

:11:33.:11:38.

I think we have lost some sense of value about what things really are

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worth. If we are paying very high prices and paying for a lot of very

:11:45.:11:49.

high cost treatments, it means that other people people aren't getting

:11:49.:11:54.

the care that they need. These drugs are costing the NHS

:11:54.:11:57.

huge amounts. How do the pharmaceutical companies justify

:11:57.:12:03.

the prices? Frances Macdonald is from the body

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that speaks for the farl suitical industry -- pharmaceutical industry.

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The figure for bringing any medicine to market is �1 billion.

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The one medicine that brings it to market has to recover the cost of

:12:18.:12:24.

those that didn't make it to market. Of those that start in phase one

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clinical trials only one in ten will come through.

:12:27.:12:37.
:12:37.:12:42.

So where does that research Monday kwhri go? -- money. This is the

:12:42.:12:45.

sort of science campus that any self-respecting university would

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kill for. It covers almost 100 acres, it employs 2,500 people -

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with the sole purpose of developing new medicines. Glaxo Smith Kline is

:12:52.:12:56.

one of the biggest pharmaceutical companies in the world. Here in

:12:56.:12:58.

Stevenage they carry out the earliest stages of drug

:12:58.:13:01.

development.But I want to know if the cost of research justifies the

:13:01.:13:09.

high price of orphan medicines. GSK we invest something like �4

:13:09.:13:12.

billion a year in research and development throughout the company,

:13:12.:13:15.

and of course we have a huge discovery capability and some of

:13:15.:13:17.

the benefits of that discovery, those discovery activities, will

:13:17.:13:27.
:13:27.:13:35.

come through into our development of new treatments for rare diseases.

:13:35.:13:38.

What is GSK's pricing policy for these drugs? We have developed what

:13:38.:13:41.

we believe is a fair approach to pricing, to allow us to make these

:13:41.:13:46.

treatments available to patients around the world. If GSK has a fair

:13:46.:13:49.

price policy, does that imply that perhaps there are some companies

:13:49.:13:53.

out there that are pricing drugs unfairly? I certainly can't comment

:13:53.:13:55.

on other companies' pricing strategies. I can only comment on

:13:55.:14:00.

our own. We believe that what we do is fair. It has a sound basis to it.

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There's a clear framework in which we use information to inform us on

:14:03.:14:06.

how we should price the medicine, and that pricing information, that

:14:06.:14:09.

pricing proposal will go to payers and they ultimately will make the

:14:09.:14:19.
:14:19.:14:19.

judgment on whether they consider that to be a fair price as well.

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The pharmaceutical industry says it spends �4.6 billion a year on

:14:22.:14:28.

research and development. But are some companies using that as an

:14:28.:14:32.

excuse to charge too much? The drug Diaminopyridine - 3,4 DAP for short

:14:32.:14:35.

- is used for people with a rare muscle disease called congenital

:14:35.:14:45.

myasthenia. Doctors in Britain have prescribed it for decades at a cost

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of about �1,000 per patient per year. This woman - now a PhD

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student at Lancaster University - was born with congenital myasthenia.

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She's been on 3,4 DAP since she was a teenager. When I was 13, they

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said they had a new drug they wanted to test with me, to see if

:15:04.:15:08.

it would make a difference. I said, oh yeah, fantastic, anything that

:15:08.:15:12.

will make me better. So I went in for a week with my mum, and yeah,

:15:12.:15:15.

from there, I'm just like a new person ever since I've had it. I

:15:15.:15:18.

have much better muscle strength, I have much better muscle control.

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I've only been in hospital once since I've had it, in 10 years.

:15:26.:15:29.

Siobhan's version of 3,4 DAP was made by small suppliers and the

:15:29.:15:32.

drug was not subject to the same regulations as licensed drugs. But

:15:32.:15:35.

US drugs company Bio Marin quite legitimately did get a license for

:15:35.:15:41.

another slightly different version called Firdapse. Because Firdapse

:15:41.:15:44.

has been licensed as an orphan drug, the drugs company can charge much

:15:44.:15:47.

higher prices and has a monopoly of supply.They're charging up to

:15:47.:15:56.

25,000 pounds a year for Firdapse. It's unclear if Siobhan's local NHS

:15:56.:16:02.

trust will pay that. I remember when she told me, it was like the

:16:02.:16:05.

longest hospital appointment I've ever had, and I don't think I said

:16:05.:16:09.

a word after she'd told me, because I was just in shock and I just felt

:16:09.:16:12.

sick. Siobhan says if she can't get her treatment, her life will be

:16:13.:16:17.

seriously affected. I want a family, I want all the things any normal

:16:17.:16:24.

young person would want for their future. For me personally, if they

:16:24.:16:29.

say no that's not the end of the road. My family has gone as far as

:16:29.:16:32.

to say if they need to they will sell the family home to make sure

:16:33.:16:42.

that I can continue having it. going to have to say I think

:16:42.:16:45.

Firdapse is, is an example of just unbridled greed. We didn't need

:16:45.:16:49.

that drug. I mean I absolutely fail to understand why we pay so much

:16:49.:16:54.

money for things. I mean most of the public health community try and

:16:54.:16:58.

resist some of these high spends. But I have to say we haven't had

:16:58.:17:04.

much success in doing so. And of course it means that then if we're

:17:04.:17:07.

paying very, very high prices and paying for a lot of high cost

:17:07.:17:15.

treatments it means that other people aren't getting the care.

:17:15.:17:19.

Marin say Firdapse is a better drug than 3,4 DAP - which is not subject

:17:19.:17:27.

to the same national regulatory or safety mechanism. They point to a

:17:27.:17:30.

study which showed 3,4 DAP was found to deliver inconsistent

:17:30.:17:34.

levels of the active drug. They also say the cost is capped at

:17:34.:17:37.

�25,000 each for the two Scottish patients taking the drug, and

:17:37.:17:47.
:17:47.:17:50.

they've added value by setting up an eigh-year-patient registry. We

:17:50.:17:53.

put a European-approved list of 66 orphan drugs to a leader in the

:17:53.:17:56.

field of evidence-based medicine. Does he think they're all worth it?

:17:56.:17:59.

The major thing that stuck out in my mind immediately was the cost,

:17:59.:18:07.

the excessive costs. As he looked through the list he came across a

:18:07.:18:10.

drug even I recognised. There's a particular drug called Ibuprofen

:18:10.:18:13.

that many people will recognise over the counter, and that costs

:18:13.:18:17.

about 8p per gram. Now you can use intravenous ibuprofen, same drug

:18:17.:18:21.

just in slightly different form. It has to be injected, in children,

:18:21.:18:23.

for a small operation and for patent ductusarteriosis - big word

:18:23.:18:31.

but it's a little hole in the heart. Now, when that goes from the

:18:31.:18:34.

generic form at 8p per gram to the actual intravenous form, the

:18:34.:18:43.

licensed orphan drug, it costs �6,500. Why does it cost so much?

:18:43.:18:46.

Because it, you can charge that, because you can charge that because

:18:46.:18:48.

one of the things about the incentives is you actually have

:18:48.:18:54.

exclusivity of the market once you get the orphan licence. A gram is a

:18:55.:18:58.

large dose in the pharmaceutical world - a baby would be given less

:18:58.:19:04.

than that. It's made by Orphan Europe. They say Pedea has been

:19:04.:19:07.

specifically developed as a ready to use intraveneous formulation for

:19:07.:19:10.

a very fragile patient population that is different to those who

:19:10.:19:13.

normally use ibroprofen, that it has a very good safety profile and

:19:13.:19:15.

that it is priced in a socially responsible way, reflecting the

:19:15.:19:25.

drug's value and the cost of research. It seems that the special

:19:25.:19:27.

incentives offered to drug companies to research and

:19:27.:19:29.

manufacture unpopular medicines, have turned orphan drugs into a

:19:29.:19:36.

lucrative part of the market. And the drug companies want us to

:19:36.:19:46.
:19:46.:19:47.

concentrate less on how much these drugs really cost. It's very easy

:19:47.:19:50.

to talk about $200, $250k per patient per year in the US. It's

:19:50.:19:58.

easy to say we make 90% gross margin. As an industry we need to

:19:58.:20:07.

move the discussion from price to value. So the simple reality is we

:20:07.:20:17.
:20:17.:20:20.

need to. Just how much is this costing the NHS? Although each

:20:20.:20:22.

disease may affect a relative handful of people, put together

:20:22.:20:25.

more than 300,000 people in Scotland are living with an orphan

:20:25.:20:31.

disease of some kind. We asked every trust and health board in

:20:31.:20:36.

Scotland how much they spent on a list of orphan drugs. 11 out of 14

:20:36.:20:44.

replied. They said they spent �17.6 million on these drugs last year.

:20:44.:20:47.

Drug companies are businesses - they have a legal responsibility to

:20:47.:20:52.

their shareholders to deliver dividends by making profits. These

:20:52.:20:55.

little pills were born in the homeland of modern capitalism - the

:20:55.:21:05.
:21:05.:21:17.

United States of America. This is where the whole idea of orphan

:21:17.:21:25.

drugs began and where much of the research and development happens.

:21:25.:21:27.

Oregon's Health and Science University hospital is located -

:21:28.:21:31.

James Bond-style - high on a hill above the city of Portland .It was

:21:31.:21:41.
:21:41.:21:43.

here a doctor found himself in the middle of the orphan drugs debate.

:21:43.:21:46.

Dr Brian Druker helped develop Gleevec for his leukaemia patients

:21:46.:21:50.

and fought to get it from the lab to the dispensary. He's something

:21:50.:21:59.

of a hero to people with chronic myeloid leukaemia. Iit was our

:21:59.:22:02.

tradition to write a letter to family members of somebody we lost

:22:02.:22:05.

and every time I'd write a letter which was really difficult, I would

:22:05.:22:08.

say I'm going to dedicate my career to making a difference, to doing

:22:08.:22:10.

something that will be fundamentally different than what

:22:10.:22:16.

we're doing today. 13 years ago Dr Druker helped develop Gleeve cand

:22:16.:22:19.

carried out clinical trials here at OHSU, but then found an unexpected

:22:19.:22:29.
:22:29.:22:36.

problem in bringing the medicine to market. The biggest concern was

:22:36.:22:39.

with the market size of about 5,000 new patients in the United States,

:22:39.:22:42.

5,000 new patients in western Europe, how is a drug company ever

:22:42.:22:50.

going to make back their investment for this small market of a disease?

:22:50.:22:53.

But Gleevec did make it to market. And it's been highly lucrative,

:22:53.:22:57.

turning into one of the top five best selling orphan drugs in the

:22:57.:23:00.

world. Last year it earned Novartis $4.6 billion. So why do you think

:23:00.:23:06.

Novartis feels able to pitch the price of Glivec as high as it is?

:23:06.:23:09.

It's very simple, it's what the market will bear. It's very simple

:23:09.:23:11.

and their, their responsibility is to their shareholders and to

:23:11.:23:14.

maximising profits and to getting a return on investment to put back

:23:14.:23:23.

into developing new medications. Novartis says Glivec has

:23:23.:23:25.

fundamentally changed the outlook for thousands and that the current

:23:25.:23:28.

price "reflects the value that it brings to patients and society. In

:23:28.:23:30.

addition Novartis has supported more than 200 clinical studies

:23:30.:23:40.
:23:40.:23:42.

since Gleevec entered trials in 1998. In some ways it can seem

:23:42.:23:47.

remarkable that orphan drugs get made at all. There is little

:23:47.:23:49.

incentive for a pharmaceutical company to develop an orphan drug

:23:49.:23:52.

at all. After all they can be tricky and costly to bring to

:23:52.:23:56.

market. And then that market is just a handful of patients. Is that

:23:56.:23:59.

why they cost so much? The US government has given huge subsidies

:23:59.:24:02.

to its pharmaceutical industry for research and development - or R&D -

:24:02.:24:12.
:24:12.:24:12.

to help it develop and test orphan drugs. Money well spent. Or is it?

:24:12.:24:16.

The high cost of the R&D is one of the reasons cited why the cost of

:24:16.:24:22.

those drugs is so high. But I've come to Harvard Law School to meet

:24:22.:24:29.

one professor who has his doubts. This man is investigating the drugs

:24:29.:24:31.

industry as part of a Harvard centre looking at institutional

:24:31.:24:39.

corruption. Research and development costs, known as R&D,

:24:39.:24:43.

for new drugs, ranges between about �1 billion and �5 billion. The most

:24:43.:24:46.

widely used figure is �1 billion and nobody really knows what their

:24:46.:24:53.

R&D costs are and they make sure that nobody can know. Calculating

:24:53.:24:58.

the exact cost of developing drugs is difficult. Professor Light

:24:58.:25:00.

thinks �1 billion - the figure commonly quoted by the drugs

:25:00.:25:03.

industry - is an overestimation, and only represents average

:25:03.:25:13.
:25:13.:25:14.

spending for the most expensive drugs on the market. So if you

:25:14.:25:17.

correct for that distortion you're already down to about a third, a

:25:17.:25:22.

third of a billion. Then there are the subsidies from the orphan drugs

:25:22.:25:32.
:25:32.:25:33.

law. $$WHTE That brings this figure down even further.r Then half of

:25:33.:25:36.

their so-called R&D costs are actually an estimate of the profits

:25:36.:25:39.

they would have made if they hadn't started the project in the first

:25:39.:25:42.

place, or profits foregone. Those are what the drugs firms say they

:25:42.:25:45.

could have made if they'd invested their money in the stock market

:25:45.:25:52.

instead. So if you take that out, on the grounds that it's not a

:25:52.:25:55.

legitimate part of R&D which I think there's a good argument that

:25:55.:25:58.

it isn't, you're down to �100 million and that's one-tenth of

:25:58.:26:02.

where we started. The goal of companies is to have scores of

:26:02.:26:05.

blockbuster drugs, that is scores of drugs that sell over a billion

:26:05.:26:09.

dollars each and orphan drugs can do that if you price them high

:26:09.:26:19.
:26:19.:26:26.

enough. The price of orphan drugs in many cases is very high. Why,

:26:26.:26:36.
:26:36.:26:38.

why do you think drug companies are charging so much? Because they can

:26:38.:26:46.

get away with it. So what are we to take away from what the professor

:26:46.:26:50.

told us? That despite the claims by some big drug companies that it can

:26:50.:26:53.

cost as much as a billion pounds to take the drug to market, that might

:26:53.:26:57.

not be the case and yet the price of some new drugs - particularly

:26:57.:27:03.

orphan drugs - can be eye- wateringly high. The problem is

:27:03.:27:13.
:27:13.:27:16.

some of these drugs are blocking the market for innovation in new

:27:16.:27:19.

treatments to come on-line because they're taking all the cost. We

:27:19.:27:21.

can't afford any new treatment coming through that may have impact.

:27:21.:27:25.

So what does the future hold? worst case scenario here is people

:27:25.:27:27.

realise there are about 35 million patients that this applies to.

:27:27.:27:31.

There are lots of orphan drugs and lots of orphan diseases still to be

:27:31.:27:33.

tackled and actually we start swamping health care payers with

:27:33.:27:36.

costs across the board with these very expensive drugs, and they get

:27:36.:27:39.

overwhelmed and just say actually we can't look at any of these.

:27:39.:27:42.

There's too many coming our way. Could medicines which save lives be

:27:42.:27:45.

so expensive that they're bad for the health of the health service?

:27:45.:27:49.

What does the industry say to that? Can ABPI put its hand on its heart

:27:49.:27:51.

and say that all pharmaceutical companies that, are actually

:27:51.:27:54.

pricing drugs fairly, and that maybe some of them are actually at

:27:54.:27:57.

it? I don't think the pharmaceutical industry per se can

:27:57.:28:01.

answer that question as you put it, but I would say that most drugs are

:28:01.:28:03.

very reasonably priced, I think society should value the fact that

:28:03.:28:06.

the medicines are being developed, and that there's benefit to the

:28:06.:28:10.

patients. But society then has to say, do I want to pay more or do I

:28:10.:28:14.

not? And that is a broad discussion. They have to say, do I value the

:28:14.:28:18.

fact that parents might get back to work? Do I value the fact that this

:28:18.:28:21.

child may have a better quality of life? They need to discuss what do

:28:21.:28:25.

we want to pay for, and they need to assess, what do we consider

:28:25.:28:32.

value nowadays for these drugs and not keep it too narrow.

:28:32.:28:35.

Scotland's drugs bill has been rising - it's set to top �1.5

:28:35.:28:42.

billion this year. And health boards have been told to cut this

:28:42.:28:51.

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