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This nurse has three small vials of medicine worth �9,000. Each | :00:11. | :00:18. | |
patient's bill for this one drug is �250,000 a year. There are scenes | :00:18. | :00:24. | |
like this across Scotland. Behind the smiles is a ci | :00:24. | :00:29. | |
circumstances drugs like these cost huge amounts and treat only a few. | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
They make drug companies a fortune, but are they bankrupting the vfs? | :00:33. | :00:42. | |
- NHS? The drug market is $50 billion and growing. | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
With Scottish health boards looking to make cuts, can we expect it? | :00:46. | :00:53. | |
expect we will be looking back and thinking, "Did we really pay that | :00:53. | :00:58. | |
for that small amount of benefit?". Are drug companies holding the NHS | :00:58. | :01:05. | |
to rand dom? Firdapse is an example of unbridled greed. | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
Tonight BBC Scotland Scotland investigates, life, drugs and | :01:09. | :01:19. | |
:01:19. | :01:31. | ||
For thousands of of years plants like these formed the basis of our | :01:31. | :01:41. | |
medicines. But times have changed. This is an investigation into some | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
remarkable drugs and the amazing prices some companies are prepared | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
to charge for them. 30 years ago, if you developed a rare disease, | :01:49. | :01:56. | |
the chances are none of the big drug companies would have been | :01:56. | :02:02. | |
looking for a cure. It wasn't their worthwhile for a mere handful of | :02:03. | :02:08. | |
patients. But the US and the EU brought forward incentives to | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
encourage drug companies to fin treatments for the rare and brutal | :02:11. | :02:19. | |
diseases. They call them orphan drugs. Drug companies were given | :02:19. | :02:24. | |
fast-tracks through the clinical testing process, extra long patents | :02:24. | :02:30. | |
and a monopoly on supply. They were given tax breaks and subsidies, | :02:30. | :02:36. | |
extra help and encouragement to make the much-needed medicines. And | :02:36. | :02:40. | |
it worked perhaps too well. Today, drug companies are making billions | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
of pounds out of these orphan drugs. Many, but not all of them, are | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
remarkable medicines, but can the NHS in Scotland afford to keep | :02:49. | :02:59. | |
:02:59. | :03:00. | ||
shelling out millions of pounds on them every year? | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
Lesley Loeliger is an electronics engineer. She used to travel the | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
world, now she looks after her family because seven years ago, she | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
was struck by a mysterious illness. I was having to be carried up and | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
downstairs. I was having to be dressed and undressed. I couldn't | :03:17. | :03:22. | |
even do that for myself. Sometimes when I was so bad and I was so | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
exhausted I couldn't turn over in bed. It was that bad. | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
What Lesley didn't know she developed an orphan disease. A | :03:29. | :03:35. | |
condition so rare it baffled her doctors for over 18 months. When | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
the diagnosis came, it was devastating. | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
He said you have paraxize monocturnal haemoglobin. PMH for | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
sport. It is a bone marrow disease with a survival rate of ten years. | :03:49. | :03:54. | |
To stop a deadly blot clot forming, less by was given transfusions | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
every six weeks. They kept her alive, but her quality of life | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
remained low. I ached the hole time. My muscles | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
were aching. I had difficulty swallowing and pains in my stomach | :04:07. | :04:14. | |
and headaches. At about that time I was also made aware of a drug that | :04:14. | :04:20. | |
was available for PMH. We were told it is not a cure for PMH but it can | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
give a person their quality of life back and that drug is Soliris. | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
Soliris is the world's most expensive drug. It costs about | :04:29. | :04:35. | |
�250,000 a year for each patient. It is made by the American drugs | :04:35. | :04:42. | |
firm. It spent 15 years and $800 million developing. It is the first | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
and only drug approved to treat Lesley's condition. | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
When I heard about the drug, I was told, you are not funded. You are | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
not likely to get it. It is one of the most expensive drugs. That was | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
the end of the conversation really, but the consultants were trying to | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
get me the drug. The Scottish Medicines Consortium | :05:04. | :05:10. | |
says Soliris isn't cost effective and does not recommend its use. The | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
drugs company says its its price is fair because it bore costs and | :05:14. | :05:19. | |
risks in the drug's development. They say the value reflects several | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
factors including that a third of patients died within five years | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
before Soliris was available and governments and private insurers in | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
over 35 countries recognise the life transforming value of Soliris. | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
The company says it continues to spend a great deal on the | :05:36. | :05:44. | |
manufacturer of the drug and on support for people with PMH. | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
Lesley's doctors were able to persuade the Health Secretary her | :05:47. | :05:54. | |
case was exceptional exception andal and -- exceptional and | :05:54. | :06:00. | |
Soliris should be prescribed. To me this drug is a miracle. My | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
family had to face the possibility of me going in ten years. My | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
husband had to face the chance of bringing up the children on his own. | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
My mum and dad faced the pont of lose -- possibility of losing their | :06:11. | :06:21. | |
daughter and I appear to be getting better. I am just so grateful. | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
Because it is so expensive, the Health Secretary only allows eight | :06:24. | :06:31. | |
other people with PMH in Scotland to get Soliris. Three other people | :06:31. | :06:38. | |
aren't so lucky. Their case isn't considered exceptional enough. One | :06:38. | :06:46. | |
thing is certain, it is an exceptional price tag. For people | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
who have been helped by a medicine like Soliris, it is worth its | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
weight in gold. The trouble is that for the National Health Service, it | :06:54. | :07:04. | |
:07:04. | :07:06. | ||
costs more than 300 times its weight in gold. | :07:06. | :07:13. | |
But with so few patients, why is it worth making Soliris at all? | :07:13. | :07:20. | |
I asked Dr Kiran Meekings, a business analyst. She co-authored | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
this report on the future of orphan drugs. Soliris up until this year | :07:25. | :07:33. | |
is the world's most expensive drug and in 2012 it is estimated to make | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
make �1 billion in sales. Analysts think expectations is that it will | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
make up to �2 billion because of increased re-positioning into other | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
diseases. It can do this because it has a small number of patients, it | :07:47. | :07:52. | |
charges the high price. And that's just Soliris. There are | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
dozens of orphan drugs treat ago range of rare diseases. They are | :07:56. | :07:58. | |
special drugs and because they treat rare diseases they get | :07:58. | :08:03. | |
special treatment from lawmakers on both sides of the Atlantic. | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
Research subsidies, tax breaks, relaxed testing protocols. | :08:07. | :08:13. | |
The open drug market the moment is $50 billion US dollars and growing. | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
It is growing at 6% per year. Soon that's going to become a large sum | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
of money. With regards to the future projections, it would be | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
interesting to see what the market can bear because at some point | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
payers and reimbursers, there will be a ceiling on the prices the | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
drugs can procure. It is just when we reach them. | :08:35. | :08:40. | |
In the UK, the payers are us, through the NHS and that means the | :08:40. | :08:46. | |
drug companies are making millions. Here in Glasgow, they are holding a | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
national conference for the growing number of people who have been kept | :08:51. | :09:01. | |
:09:01. | :09:02. | ||
alive by another orphan drug. It is called Imatinib. 15 years ago these | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
people's diagnoses, chronic myeloid leukaemia was a death sentence. | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
was diagnosed about three years ago and it came as a shock. I never | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
heard of CML. Life doesn't get any better. It is | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
a second chance of life. All of a sudden, you have got cancer, it is | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
not that bad. You got a little Tablet that can -- | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
tablet that can control it. It made such a difference for myself and my | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
family and my friends. But is it worth it? To the patients, | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
yes. I think that cost whilst it is a | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
big factor, it has to be looked at the life it is giving to us. This | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
hit me out of the blue as it may well hit anyone who is out there. | :09:42. | :09:48. | |
When you have that phone call and you are sat down opposite somebody | :09:48. | :09:54. | |
who says, "I can give you a normal life and it is going to cost you | :09:54. | :10:00. | |
�25,000 ." You will take that and anyone watching this will take that. | :10:00. | :10:10. | |
:10:10. | :10:12. | ||
But turning a a fatal condition into one that people can expect to | :10:12. | :10:20. | |
life life as long as us. Gleevec is a success story because it had six | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
independent orphan approvals which many it can realise over �4 billion | :10:24. | :10:30. | |
in one year. Gleevec now treats 200,000 people | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
worldwide. People who don't just have CML, but other cancers too. It | :10:35. | :10:42. | |
is forecast that people with CML will cost the NHS across the UK �2 | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
to �3 billion over ten years. Is it right that orphan drugs should be | :10:46. | :10:52. | |
priced on this kind of scale? That would would pay for 25,000 heart | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
transplants. Daphne Austin knows the effect | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
these high drug prices are having on the NHS. She used to have to | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
make decision about which life- saving drug should be funded or not | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
funded during her time working there. | :11:09. | :11:16. | |
We now have drugs that are so highly priced, you are looking at | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
maybe spending, you know, �10 million for one person's treatment | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
for one drug over the course of their lifetime. And personally, I | :11:26. | :11:33. | |
think that's too high. I think we have lost some sense of proportion. | :11:33. | :11:38. | |
I think we have lost some sense of value about what things really are | :11:38. | :11:45. | |
worth. If we are paying very high prices and paying for a lot of very | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
high cost treatments, it means that other people people aren't getting | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
the care that they need. These drugs are costing the NHS | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
huge amounts. How do the pharmaceutical companies justify | :11:57. | :12:03. | |
the prices? Frances Macdonald is from the body | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
that speaks for the farl suitical industry -- pharmaceutical industry. | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
The figure for bringing any medicine to market is �1 billion. | :12:12. | :12:18. | |
The one medicine that brings it to market has to recover the cost of | :12:18. | :12:24. | |
those that didn't make it to market. Of those that start in phase one | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
clinical trials only one in ten will come through. | :12:27. | :12:37. | |
:12:37. | :12:42. | ||
So where does that research Monday kwhri go? -- money. This is the | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
sort of science campus that any self-respecting university would | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
kill for. It covers almost 100 acres, it employs 2,500 people - | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
with the sole purpose of developing new medicines. Glaxo Smith Kline is | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
one of the biggest pharmaceutical companies in the world. Here in | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
Stevenage they carry out the earliest stages of drug | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
development.But I want to know if the cost of research justifies the | :13:01. | :13:09. | |
high price of orphan medicines. GSK we invest something like �4 | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
billion a year in research and development throughout the company, | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
and of course we have a huge discovery capability and some of | :13:15. | :13:17. | |
the benefits of that discovery, those discovery activities, will | :13:17. | :13:27. | |
:13:27. | :13:35. | ||
come through into our development of new treatments for rare diseases. | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
What is GSK's pricing policy for these drugs? We have developed what | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
we believe is a fair approach to pricing, to allow us to make these | :13:41. | :13:46. | |
treatments available to patients around the world. If GSK has a fair | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
price policy, does that imply that perhaps there are some companies | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
out there that are pricing drugs unfairly? I certainly can't comment | :13:53. | :13:55. | |
on other companies' pricing strategies. I can only comment on | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
our own. We believe that what we do is fair. It has a sound basis to it. | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
There's a clear framework in which we use information to inform us on | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
how we should price the medicine, and that pricing information, that | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
pricing proposal will go to payers and they ultimately will make the | :14:09. | :14:19. | |
:14:19. | :14:19. | ||
judgment on whether they consider that to be a fair price as well. | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
The pharmaceutical industry says it spends �4.6 billion a year on | :14:22. | :14:28. | |
research and development. But are some companies using that as an | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
excuse to charge too much? The drug Diaminopyridine - 3,4 DAP for short | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
- is used for people with a rare muscle disease called congenital | :14:35. | :14:45. | |
myasthenia. Doctors in Britain have prescribed it for decades at a cost | :14:45. | :14:50. | |
of about �1,000 per patient per year. This woman - now a PhD | :14:50. | :14:55. | |
student at Lancaster University - was born with congenital myasthenia. | :14:55. | :15:00. | |
She's been on 3,4 DAP since she was a teenager. When I was 13, they | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
said they had a new drug they wanted to test with me, to see if | :15:04. | :15:08. | |
it would make a difference. I said, oh yeah, fantastic, anything that | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
will make me better. So I went in for a week with my mum, and yeah, | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
from there, I'm just like a new person ever since I've had it. I | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
have much better muscle strength, I have much better muscle control. | :15:18. | :15:26. | |
I've only been in hospital once since I've had it, in 10 years. | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
Siobhan's version of 3,4 DAP was made by small suppliers and the | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
drug was not subject to the same regulations as licensed drugs. But | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
US drugs company Bio Marin quite legitimately did get a license for | :15:35. | :15:41. | |
another slightly different version called Firdapse. Because Firdapse | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
has been licensed as an orphan drug, the drugs company can charge much | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
higher prices and has a monopoly of supply.They're charging up to | :15:47. | :15:56. | |
25,000 pounds a year for Firdapse. It's unclear if Siobhan's local NHS | :15:56. | :16:02. | |
trust will pay that. I remember when she told me, it was like the | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
longest hospital appointment I've ever had, and I don't think I said | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
a word after she'd told me, because I was just in shock and I just felt | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
sick. Siobhan says if she can't get her treatment, her life will be | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
seriously affected. I want a family, I want all the things any normal | :16:17. | :16:24. | |
young person would want for their future. For me personally, if they | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
say no that's not the end of the road. My family has gone as far as | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
to say if they need to they will sell the family home to make sure | :16:33. | :16:42. | |
that I can continue having it. going to have to say I think | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
Firdapse is, is an example of just unbridled greed. We didn't need | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
that drug. I mean I absolutely fail to understand why we pay so much | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
money for things. I mean most of the public health community try and | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
resist some of these high spends. But I have to say we haven't had | :16:58. | :17:04. | |
much success in doing so. And of course it means that then if we're | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
paying very, very high prices and paying for a lot of high cost | :17:07. | :17:15. | |
treatments it means that other people aren't getting the care. | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
Marin say Firdapse is a better drug than 3,4 DAP - which is not subject | :17:19. | :17:27. | |
to the same national regulatory or safety mechanism. They point to a | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
study which showed 3,4 DAP was found to deliver inconsistent | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
levels of the active drug. They also say the cost is capped at | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
�25,000 each for the two Scottish patients taking the drug, and | :17:37. | :17:47. | |
:17:47. | :17:50. | ||
they've added value by setting up an eigh-year-patient registry. We | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
put a European-approved list of 66 orphan drugs to a leader in the | :17:53. | :17:56. | |
field of evidence-based medicine. Does he think they're all worth it? | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
The major thing that stuck out in my mind immediately was the cost, | :17:59. | :18:07. | |
the excessive costs. As he looked through the list he came across a | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
drug even I recognised. There's a particular drug called Ibuprofen | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
that many people will recognise over the counter, and that costs | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
about 8p per gram. Now you can use intravenous ibuprofen, same drug | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
just in slightly different form. It has to be injected, in children, | :18:21. | :18:23. | |
for a small operation and for patent ductusarteriosis - big word | :18:23. | :18:31. | |
but it's a little hole in the heart. Now, when that goes from the | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
generic form at 8p per gram to the actual intravenous form, the | :18:34. | :18:43. | |
licensed orphan drug, it costs �6,500. Why does it cost so much? | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
Because it, you can charge that, because you can charge that because | :18:46. | :18:48. | |
one of the things about the incentives is you actually have | :18:48. | :18:54. | |
exclusivity of the market once you get the orphan licence. A gram is a | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
large dose in the pharmaceutical world - a baby would be given less | :18:58. | :19:04. | |
than that. It's made by Orphan Europe. They say Pedea has been | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
specifically developed as a ready to use intraveneous formulation for | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
a very fragile patient population that is different to those who | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
normally use ibroprofen, that it has a very good safety profile and | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
that it is priced in a socially responsible way, reflecting the | :19:15. | :19:25. | |
drug's value and the cost of research. It seems that the special | :19:25. | :19:27. | |
incentives offered to drug companies to research and | :19:27. | :19:29. | |
manufacture unpopular medicines, have turned orphan drugs into a | :19:29. | :19:36. | |
lucrative part of the market. And the drug companies want us to | :19:36. | :19:46. | |
:19:46. | :19:47. | ||
concentrate less on how much these drugs really cost. It's very easy | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
to talk about $200, $250k per patient per year in the US. It's | :19:50. | :19:58. | |
easy to say we make 90% gross margin. As an industry we need to | :19:58. | :20:07. | |
move the discussion from price to value. So the simple reality is we | :20:07. | :20:17. | |
:20:17. | :20:20. | ||
need to. Just how much is this costing the NHS? Although each | :20:20. | :20:22. | |
disease may affect a relative handful of people, put together | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
more than 300,000 people in Scotland are living with an orphan | :20:25. | :20:31. | |
disease of some kind. We asked every trust and health board in | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
Scotland how much they spent on a list of orphan drugs. 11 out of 14 | :20:36. | :20:44. | |
replied. They said they spent �17.6 million on these drugs last year. | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
Drug companies are businesses - they have a legal responsibility to | :20:47. | :20:52. | |
their shareholders to deliver dividends by making profits. These | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
little pills were born in the homeland of modern capitalism - the | :20:55. | :21:05. | |
:21:05. | :21:17. | ||
United States of America. This is where the whole idea of orphan | :21:17. | :21:25. | |
drugs began and where much of the research and development happens. | :21:25. | :21:27. | |
Oregon's Health and Science University hospital is located - | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
James Bond-style - high on a hill above the city of Portland .It was | :21:31. | :21:41. | |
:21:41. | :21:43. | ||
here a doctor found himself in the middle of the orphan drugs debate. | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
Dr Brian Druker helped develop Gleevec for his leukaemia patients | :21:46. | :21:50. | |
and fought to get it from the lab to the dispensary. He's something | :21:50. | :21:59. | |
of a hero to people with chronic myeloid leukaemia. Iit was our | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
tradition to write a letter to family members of somebody we lost | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
and every time I'd write a letter which was really difficult, I would | :22:05. | :22:08. | |
say I'm going to dedicate my career to making a difference, to doing | :22:08. | :22:10. | |
something that will be fundamentally different than what | :22:10. | :22:16. | |
we're doing today. 13 years ago Dr Druker helped develop Gleeve cand | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
carried out clinical trials here at OHSU, but then found an unexpected | :22:19. | :22:29. | |
:22:29. | :22:36. | ||
problem in bringing the medicine to market. The biggest concern was | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
with the market size of about 5,000 new patients in the United States, | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
5,000 new patients in western Europe, how is a drug company ever | :22:42. | :22:50. | |
going to make back their investment for this small market of a disease? | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
But Gleevec did make it to market. And it's been highly lucrative, | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
turning into one of the top five best selling orphan drugs in the | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
world. Last year it earned Novartis $4.6 billion. So why do you think | :23:00. | :23:06. | |
Novartis feels able to pitch the price of Glivec as high as it is? | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
It's very simple, it's what the market will bear. It's very simple | :23:09. | :23:11. | |
and their, their responsibility is to their shareholders and to | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
maximising profits and to getting a return on investment to put back | :23:14. | :23:23. | |
into developing new medications. Novartis says Glivec has | :23:23. | :23:25. | |
fundamentally changed the outlook for thousands and that the current | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
price "reflects the value that it brings to patients and society. In | :23:28. | :23:30. | |
addition Novartis has supported more than 200 clinical studies | :23:30. | :23:40. | |
:23:40. | :23:42. | ||
since Gleevec entered trials in 1998. In some ways it can seem | :23:42. | :23:47. | |
remarkable that orphan drugs get made at all. There is little | :23:47. | :23:49. | |
incentive for a pharmaceutical company to develop an orphan drug | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
at all. After all they can be tricky and costly to bring to | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
market. And then that market is just a handful of patients. Is that | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
why they cost so much? The US government has given huge subsidies | :23:59. | :24:02. | |
to its pharmaceutical industry for research and development - or R&D - | :24:02. | :24:12. | |
:24:12. | :24:12. | ||
to help it develop and test orphan drugs. Money well spent. Or is it? | :24:12. | :24:16. | |
The high cost of the R&D is one of the reasons cited why the cost of | :24:16. | :24:22. | |
those drugs is so high. But I've come to Harvard Law School to meet | :24:22. | :24:29. | |
one professor who has his doubts. This man is investigating the drugs | :24:29. | :24:31. | |
industry as part of a Harvard centre looking at institutional | :24:31. | :24:39. | |
corruption. Research and development costs, known as R&D, | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
for new drugs, ranges between about �1 billion and �5 billion. The most | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
widely used figure is �1 billion and nobody really knows what their | :24:46. | :24:53. | |
R&D costs are and they make sure that nobody can know. Calculating | :24:53. | :24:58. | |
the exact cost of developing drugs is difficult. Professor Light | :24:58. | :25:00. | |
thinks �1 billion - the figure commonly quoted by the drugs | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
industry - is an overestimation, and only represents average | :25:03. | :25:13. | |
:25:13. | :25:14. | ||
spending for the most expensive drugs on the market. So if you | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
correct for that distortion you're already down to about a third, a | :25:17. | :25:22. | |
third of a billion. Then there are the subsidies from the orphan drugs | :25:22. | :25:32. | |
:25:32. | :25:33. | ||
law. $$WHTE That brings this figure down even further.r Then half of | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
their so-called R&D costs are actually an estimate of the profits | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
they would have made if they hadn't started the project in the first | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
place, or profits foregone. Those are what the drugs firms say they | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
could have made if they'd invested their money in the stock market | :25:45. | :25:52. | |
instead. So if you take that out, on the grounds that it's not a | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
legitimate part of R&D which I think there's a good argument that | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
it isn't, you're down to �100 million and that's one-tenth of | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
where we started. The goal of companies is to have scores of | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
blockbuster drugs, that is scores of drugs that sell over a billion | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
dollars each and orphan drugs can do that if you price them high | :26:09. | :26:19. | |
:26:19. | :26:26. | ||
enough. The price of orphan drugs in many cases is very high. Why, | :26:26. | :26:36. | |
:26:36. | :26:38. | ||
why do you think drug companies are charging so much? Because they can | :26:38. | :26:46. | |
get away with it. So what are we to take away from what the professor | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
told us? That despite the claims by some big drug companies that it can | :26:50. | :26:53. | |
cost as much as a billion pounds to take the drug to market, that might | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
not be the case and yet the price of some new drugs - particularly | :26:57. | :27:03. | |
orphan drugs - can be eye- wateringly high. The problem is | :27:03. | :27:13. | |
:27:13. | :27:16. | ||
some of these drugs are blocking the market for innovation in new | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
treatments to come on-line because they're taking all the cost. We | :27:19. | :27:21. | |
can't afford any new treatment coming through that may have impact. | :27:21. | :27:25. | |
So what does the future hold? worst case scenario here is people | :27:25. | :27:27. | |
realise there are about 35 million patients that this applies to. | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
There are lots of orphan drugs and lots of orphan diseases still to be | :27:31. | :27:33. | |
tackled and actually we start swamping health care payers with | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
costs across the board with these very expensive drugs, and they get | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
overwhelmed and just say actually we can't look at any of these. | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
There's too many coming our way. Could medicines which save lives be | :27:42. | :27:45. | |
so expensive that they're bad for the health of the health service? | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
What does the industry say to that? Can ABPI put its hand on its heart | :27:49. | :27:51. | |
and say that all pharmaceutical companies that, are actually | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
pricing drugs fairly, and that maybe some of them are actually at | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
it? I don't think the pharmaceutical industry per se can | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
answer that question as you put it, but I would say that most drugs are | :28:01. | :28:03. | |
very reasonably priced, I think society should value the fact that | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
the medicines are being developed, and that there's benefit to the | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
patients. But society then has to say, do I want to pay more or do I | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
not? And that is a broad discussion. They have to say, do I value the | :28:14. | :28:18. | |
fact that parents might get back to work? Do I value the fact that this | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
child may have a better quality of life? They need to discuss what do | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
we want to pay for, and they need to assess, what do we consider | :28:25. | :28:32. | |
value nowadays for these drugs and not keep it too narrow. | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
Scotland's drugs bill has been rising - it's set to top �1.5 | :28:35. | :28:42. | |
billion this year. And health boards have been told to cut this | :28:42. | :28:51. |