Browse content similar to 01/05/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good evening and welcome to CF99, | 0:00:19 | 0:00:21 | |
live from the Assembly in Cardiff Bay. | 0:00:21 | 0:00:24 | |
On the programme tonight: | 0:00:24 | 0:00:26 | |
As we approach local elections on Anglesey and parts of England, | 0:00:26 | 0:00:30 | |
we ask what's at stake? | 0:00:30 | 0:00:32 | |
Welsh Lions will be leading the team out onto the rugby pitch | 0:00:32 | 0:00:35 | |
but is Scotland the key player in the constitutional game? | 0:00:35 | 0:00:39 | |
And we'll ask this man | 0:00:39 | 0:00:41 | |
whether our politicians make enough use of comedy. | 0:00:41 | 0:00:45 | |
Gary Slaymaker will join us in a moment but joining me | 0:00:47 | 0:00:50 | |
here is Richard Wyn Jones from the Wales Governance Centre | 0:00:50 | 0:00:54 | |
at Cardiff University and the political commentator, Gareth Hughes. | 0:00:54 | 0:00:58 | |
Welcome, both. | 0:00:58 | 0:01:00 | |
Tomorrow, the people of Anglesey get a chance to elect new | 0:01:00 | 0:01:03 | |
councillors following a troubled time in the island's political history. | 0:01:03 | 0:01:08 | |
This is the only part of Wales to vote tomorrow, | 0:01:08 | 0:01:11 | |
though there are by-elections in several parts of England. | 0:01:11 | 0:01:14 | |
Here's our political editor Betsan Powys | 0:01:14 | 0:01:17 | |
with a summery of the battle being played out on the island. | 0:01:17 | 0:01:20 | |
Anglesey. Famous for its bridges, port and its power station. | 0:01:28 | 0:01:34 | |
But over the last few years, its headlines have made painful reading | 0:01:34 | 0:01:38 | |
as a result of its political problems. | 0:01:38 | 0:01:41 | |
Those problems were so bad that the minister in Cardiff, | 0:01:43 | 0:01:47 | |
his patience exhausted, sent a crew of commissioners to oversee things. | 0:01:47 | 0:01:52 | |
And they wouldn't leave until the new minister was satisfied | 0:01:52 | 0:01:56 | |
that the council was being run as it should. | 0:01:56 | 0:01:59 | |
The independents make the point that things have improved recently | 0:01:59 | 0:02:03 | |
under their own leadership but it's clear that tomorrow's election | 0:02:03 | 0:02:07 | |
is an opportunity for the political parties to make their mark. | 0:02:07 | 0:02:12 | |
All five parties promise to offer disciplined political | 0:02:12 | 0:02:15 | |
leadership to the council. | 0:02:15 | 0:02:18 | |
The four main parties and UKIP are eager to slacken the grip | 0:02:18 | 0:02:21 | |
of the independents and gain ground on Anglesey. | 0:02:21 | 0:02:24 | |
So what are the hot topics on the doorstep? | 0:02:24 | 0:02:27 | |
The economy, work, the need for job creation for young | 0:02:27 | 0:02:30 | |
people in particular, investment in roads, libraries and post offices. | 0:02:30 | 0:02:35 | |
But the message on all the doorsteps is change. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:39 | |
The appetite not to turn back the clock | 0:02:39 | 0:02:41 | |
but to open a new chapter on the history of Anglesey. | 0:02:41 | 0:02:45 | |
So Anglesey, the mother of Wales, | 0:02:45 | 0:02:48 | |
but in the past the naughty little child of Welsh local government. | 0:02:48 | 0:02:51 | |
To what extent has that already changed? | 0:02:51 | 0:02:55 | |
What effect will the new electoral system have tomorrow? | 0:02:55 | 0:02:59 | |
How brave will the people of Anglesey be with their second | 0:02:59 | 0:03:02 | |
and third votes? How much change will we see in reality? | 0:03:02 | 0:03:07 | |
From Mon over to Vaughan. Discuss. | 0:03:07 | 0:03:10 | |
Betsan Powys. | 0:03:12 | 0:03:15 | |
As you're from Anglesey we'll begin with you, Richard. | 0:03:15 | 0:03:17 | |
In one sense, Carl Sargeant can be fairly satisfied | 0:03:17 | 0:03:21 | |
that his scheme has worked in the sense that | 0:03:21 | 0:03:24 | |
he's got rid of these undisputed elections, | 0:03:24 | 0:03:26 | |
ensuring that the parties nominate candidates. That's succeeded. | 0:03:26 | 0:03:30 | |
Yes, and we must acknowledge that. | 0:03:30 | 0:03:33 | |
There's been a real problem with councillors on Anglesey. | 0:03:33 | 0:03:36 | |
Certainly nobody on Anglesey denies that. | 0:03:36 | 0:03:39 | |
And at least there's an opportunity to set up a new structure | 0:03:39 | 0:03:43 | |
and a discussion on policy | 0:03:43 | 0:03:46 | |
so know what people stand for before they're elected, | 0:03:46 | 0:03:49 | |
and they know what party they're a member of before they're elected. | 0:03:49 | 0:03:52 | |
There's a tradition of politicians | 0:03:52 | 0:03:54 | |
becoming members of after being elected. | 0:03:54 | 0:03:56 | |
Probably the only place in the world where that happens. | 0:03:56 | 0:03:59 | |
So there has been a change. | 0:03:59 | 0:04:01 | |
I don't want to be negative but there's a problem | 0:04:01 | 0:04:03 | |
with local government structure in Wales. | 0:04:03 | 0:04:06 | |
There are far too many small units | 0:04:06 | 0:04:10 | |
and some of the key problems on Anglesey will remain as a result, unfortunately. | 0:04:10 | 0:04:16 | |
So Gareth, I must ask the question, | 0:04:16 | 0:04:18 | |
are the independents going to be a rare breed come Friday? | 0:04:18 | 0:04:21 | |
The debate is going to change. | 0:04:21 | 0:04:24 | |
The debate will move from the council chamber over to the political parties. | 0:04:24 | 0:04:29 | |
And we know what that's like behind-the-scenes. | 0:04:29 | 0:04:32 | |
I don't know if this is imbued with new democratic significance. | 0:04:32 | 0:04:36 | |
I don't really see that myself. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:38 | |
I've got lots of experience of political parties | 0:04:38 | 0:04:42 | |
and you never know what on earth is going on! | 0:04:42 | 0:04:45 | |
So is that a good thing or a bad thing? | 0:04:45 | 0:04:47 | |
There has been a big problem with councillors being elected in uncontested elections. | 0:04:47 | 0:04:51 | |
At least there is competition this time. | 0:04:51 | 0:04:54 | |
I think everybody has to welcome that change. | 0:04:54 | 0:04:57 | |
But of course, we don't know the result. It's hard to know. | 0:04:57 | 0:05:01 | |
There are so many parties and possible factors, | 0:05:01 | 0:05:04 | |
maybe there won't be a sensible majority within the council. | 0:05:04 | 0:05:09 | |
That's interesting, isn't it? | 0:05:09 | 0:05:10 | |
Gareth, it's interesting that Carl Sargeant hasn't pulled out the commissioners from the island. | 0:05:10 | 0:05:15 | |
He clearly wants to see a Cabinet elected with a governing majority and a programme of government. | 0:05:15 | 0:05:23 | |
That's what we're lacking, of course. | 0:05:23 | 0:05:25 | |
There are parties there, how are they going to work together? | 0:05:25 | 0:05:29 | |
Will Plaid Cymru and Labour, the two largest parties, | 0:05:29 | 0:05:33 | |
I would have thought, after tomorrow, | 0:05:33 | 0:05:35 | |
are they able to co-operate? | 0:05:35 | 0:05:38 | |
They have worked together before on the island | 0:05:38 | 0:05:41 | |
but Labour Party members were thrown out at the time. | 0:05:41 | 0:05:44 | |
John Chorlton and others, there. | 0:05:44 | 0:05:47 | |
So I don't know if that will be something that's going to happen | 0:05:47 | 0:05:52 | |
because the Labour Party is very conservative when it comes to coalition. | 0:05:52 | 0:05:57 | |
Let's cast an eye over the other side of Offa's Dyke. | 0:05:57 | 0:06:01 | |
UKIP has received a lot of attention. | 0:06:01 | 0:06:03 | |
One opinion poll, in particular, has received a lot of attention. | 0:06:03 | 0:06:07 | |
I believe people have misinterpreted that | 0:06:07 | 0:06:10 | |
because it measured votes just in rural parts of the country. | 0:06:10 | 0:06:13 | |
People saw it as a bad thing that Labour were on an even footing | 0:06:13 | 0:06:16 | |
with the Conservatives. | 0:06:16 | 0:06:18 | |
That is seen as a good thing in Tory areas, Richard. | 0:06:18 | 0:06:21 | |
What can we read from that? | 0:06:21 | 0:06:23 | |
You know, the big story will be the UKIP performance, | 0:06:23 | 0:06:27 | |
whether it be bad or good. | 0:06:27 | 0:06:29 | |
There is so much pressure on that result, now. | 0:06:29 | 0:06:33 | |
But in terms of the Conservatives and the Labour Party, | 0:06:33 | 0:06:36 | |
because the interesting thing in the North of England | 0:06:36 | 0:06:40 | |
is that now the Liberal Democrats have fallen behind, | 0:06:40 | 0:06:44 | |
where is the opposition to Labour in Labour strongholds? | 0:06:44 | 0:06:47 | |
And I think UKIP will do moderately well to very well | 0:06:47 | 0:06:51 | |
in completely unexpected areas | 0:06:51 | 0:06:53 | |
just because there is no other challenge to the Labour Party. | 0:06:53 | 0:06:56 | |
So I think the UKIP story could be interesting on several levels. | 0:06:56 | 0:07:01 | |
I think this is a new phenomenon on in the United Kingdom. | 0:07:01 | 0:07:04 | |
You hear about countries like France | 0:07:04 | 0:07:06 | |
where there are movements they call pugilist, | 0:07:06 | 0:07:09 | |
populist right-wing movements. | 0:07:09 | 0:07:11 | |
We see it in the US as well. | 0:07:11 | 0:07:13 | |
It isn't something we've seen in the United Kingdom. | 0:07:13 | 0:07:15 | |
No, and I think it will be interesting, | 0:07:15 | 0:07:19 | |
as we were saying before, if you look at the results in Wales last time, | 0:07:19 | 0:07:23 | |
UKIP were behind the BNP when you looked at parties in Wales. | 0:07:23 | 0:07:28 | |
The BNP, when you looked at the parties in Wales, | 0:07:28 | 0:07:31 | |
in every place the BNP stood, UKIP trailed behind. | 0:07:31 | 0:07:34 | |
It shows that there is an extreme right-wing vote. | 0:07:34 | 0:07:39 | |
UKIP have gone far beyond the field of the National front, | 0:07:39 | 0:07:42 | |
the BNP or League of Empire Loyalists or whoever. | 0:07:42 | 0:07:45 | |
I am spending time at the moment, writing a big piece on UKIP. | 0:07:45 | 0:07:50 | |
One of the interesting things about them is in terms of the identity | 0:07:50 | 0:07:54 | |
of the people who vote for them, it is English people who vote for them, not Britons. | 0:07:54 | 0:07:59 | |
Even though it's to do with the Union Jack. | 0:07:59 | 0:08:01 | |
Just saying this is an extreme right-wing movement is too simplistic. | 0:08:01 | 0:08:05 | |
There's a wave of discontent in England and they will surf it. | 0:08:05 | 0:08:10 | |
It is a very, very English party in terms of identity. | 0:08:10 | 0:08:12 | |
In Wales, it is more British but in England, it is an English party. | 0:08:12 | 0:08:16 | |
Yes, interesting. We must move on, friends. | 0:08:16 | 0:08:19 | |
In a letter to the chancellor George Osborne this week, | 0:08:19 | 0:08:23 | |
the first Minister of Wales says that devolving financial powers | 0:08:23 | 0:08:27 | |
to Wales could influence the independence debate in Scotland. | 0:08:27 | 0:08:31 | |
What is the significance of this latest development in the constitutional game? | 0:08:31 | 0:08:36 | |
James Williams turns to the playing fields to analyse the strategy. | 0:08:36 | 0:08:41 | |
From the political fields in Cardiff Bay, Westminster and beyond, | 0:08:46 | 0:08:49 | |
find news on analysis on CF99. | 0:08:49 | 0:08:51 | |
In sport, the big news is that the Lions coach | 0:08:53 | 0:08:56 | |
Warren Gatland has announced the squad for the tour of Australia. | 0:08:56 | 0:09:01 | |
The big challenge is to ensure the players from all four teams | 0:09:01 | 0:09:04 | |
all push in the same direction. | 0:09:04 | 0:09:06 | |
But politically speaking, | 0:09:06 | 0:09:09 | |
there's not much cooperation between members of the United Kingdom. | 0:09:09 | 0:09:12 | |
The future of Britain is uncertain | 0:09:12 | 0:09:14 | |
as Scotland threatens to leave the team altogether. | 0:09:14 | 0:09:18 | |
Welsh captain Carwyn Jones wants to keep the squad together. | 0:09:18 | 0:09:22 | |
He sent a letter to the chancellor George Osborne to say | 0:09:22 | 0:09:26 | |
he should action the Silk Commission recommendations on the future | 0:09:26 | 0:09:30 | |
of devolution to set up a fair funding system for Wales, | 0:09:30 | 0:09:33 | |
because that would show that devolution can work to the benefit of the union. | 0:09:33 | 0:09:37 | |
Failing to do so, he says, would be handing over the momentum to the leader of the SNP, Alex Salmond, | 0:09:37 | 0:09:43 | |
and those campaigning in favour of Scottish independence. | 0:09:43 | 0:09:46 | |
The thing is that the United Kingdom Government says that | 0:09:47 | 0:09:51 | |
Scotland would be handed more powers after a referendum. | 0:09:51 | 0:09:54 | |
In order to show there's goodwill, it's important that they can say, "look what's happened in Wales". | 0:09:54 | 0:09:58 | |
There hasn't been a referendum there but despite that, | 0:09:58 | 0:10:01 | |
further powers have been handed to the Assembly in Wales | 0:10:01 | 0:10:04 | |
so you can trust us after the referendum. | 0:10:04 | 0:10:07 | |
I obviously want to make sure that Scotland | 0:10:07 | 0:10:09 | |
stays in the United Kingdom. | 0:10:09 | 0:10:11 | |
The concern for the Lions is that they would be too much | 0:10:11 | 0:10:13 | |
Welsh influence in the squad but constitutionally speaking, | 0:10:13 | 0:10:17 | |
is there a threat that Scotland is dictating the terms? | 0:10:17 | 0:10:22 | |
There is a danger of that and say we must make sure that Welsh interests | 0:10:22 | 0:10:25 | |
are considered by the United Kingdom Government. | 0:10:25 | 0:10:29 | |
Like the Lions, who haven't won a test series since 1997, | 0:10:29 | 0:10:33 | |
there is a point to prove. | 0:10:33 | 0:10:35 | |
And for supporters of the union, they need to show that devolution | 0:10:35 | 0:10:40 | |
and not independence is the best model for the countries of the UK. | 0:10:40 | 0:10:43 | |
James Williams. | 0:10:50 | 0:10:52 | |
Gareth, what do you make of this tactic from Carwyn Jones? | 0:10:52 | 0:10:55 | |
I don't think it's going to influence | 0:10:55 | 0:10:59 | |
what is going on in Scotland at all. | 0:10:59 | 0:11:01 | |
The debate will wage on in Scotland | 0:11:01 | 0:11:05 | |
and Richard has a better knowledge of that than me. | 0:11:05 | 0:11:08 | |
But I'm not sure that was Carwyn's reason for writing the letter. | 0:11:08 | 0:11:12 | |
He wants to influence Westminster to give us these powers. Why? | 0:11:12 | 0:11:17 | |
He wouldn't have a hope of receiving those powers | 0:11:17 | 0:11:21 | |
if Labour was elected after the next general election | 0:11:21 | 0:11:26 | |
because the majority of the Labour Party in the House of Commons | 0:11:26 | 0:11:31 | |
are opposed to giving further powers to this place. | 0:11:31 | 0:11:35 | |
Owen Smith has gone around saying that he doesn't want | 0:11:35 | 0:11:38 | |
tax-raising powers in Wales at all. | 0:11:38 | 0:11:41 | |
So that is Carwyn Jones's tactic, to make sure that is | 0:11:41 | 0:11:45 | |
out of the way before a Labour government gets in at Westminster. | 0:11:45 | 0:11:48 | |
That's an extraordinary thing to say, for someone who knows the Labour Party. | 0:11:48 | 0:11:52 | |
-Do you agree? -I hadn't considered that angle at all. | 0:11:52 | 0:11:55 | |
I saw it as a strike across the bows to David Jones. | 0:11:55 | 0:11:59 | |
We've had a couple of interesting weekends where the Liberal Democrats conference was held, | 0:11:59 | 0:12:04 | |
where Danny Alexander made a very, very, very strong statement | 0:12:04 | 0:12:07 | |
in favour of implementing Silk Commission guidelines in full. | 0:12:07 | 0:12:10 | |
Then the following weekend, | 0:12:10 | 0:12:12 | |
the Home Secretary didn't mention it, | 0:12:12 | 0:12:15 | |
literally didn't mention it, in his speech. | 0:12:15 | 0:12:18 | |
I think that's quite revealing that he isn't eager to devolve more power to this place. | 0:12:18 | 0:12:23 | |
So I saw it in terms of the internal battle within the London coalition, | 0:12:23 | 0:12:27 | |
which is certainly going on, | 0:12:27 | 0:12:29 | |
to try and strengthen the Liberal Democrat arm of the coalition. | 0:12:29 | 0:12:33 | |
But isn't there something a bit | 0:12:35 | 0:12:37 | |
- and I'm trying to choose my words carefully, here - | 0:12:37 | 0:12:40 | |
something a bit precocious, perhaps, to suggest that Westminster | 0:12:40 | 0:12:45 | |
Government decisions over the Silk Commission | 0:12:45 | 0:12:48 | |
recommendations on funding for Wales | 0:12:48 | 0:12:51 | |
will have a massive influence on the result of the Scottish referendum? | 0:12:51 | 0:12:55 | |
I'd go further to say there is no reason in the assumption | 0:12:55 | 0:12:58 | |
that catching up with Scotland now, perhaps, will mean that Scottish people will say, | 0:12:58 | 0:13:02 | |
"We don't need independence because Wales has now caught up with us." | 0:13:02 | 0:13:06 | |
I just don't see that. | 0:13:06 | 0:13:08 | |
The debate on the future of Scotland is a completely different one | 0:13:08 | 0:13:12 | |
and nobody in Scotland is taking any notice of what's going on in Wales. | 0:13:12 | 0:13:15 | |
What is even stranger is that today, | 0:13:15 | 0:13:18 | |
after saying he wants to implement the Silk recommendations in full, | 0:13:18 | 0:13:22 | |
now he says, "Look, boys. We want to reform Barnett." | 0:13:22 | 0:13:26 | |
Reforming Barnett could mean a lot of things but quite literally, | 0:13:26 | 0:13:30 | |
it means taking lots of money out of Scotland. | 0:13:30 | 0:13:33 | |
The best way to ensure Scotland votes Yes | 0:13:33 | 0:13:36 | |
is to reform the Barnett formula | 0:13:36 | 0:13:39 | |
but it seems today that's what Carwyn Jones is calling for. | 0:13:39 | 0:13:42 | |
That is very strange. | 0:13:42 | 0:13:44 | |
But that's why I'm saying it's nothing to do with Scotland. | 0:13:44 | 0:13:47 | |
It has more to do with Welsh politics | 0:13:47 | 0:13:50 | |
and Labour Party politics in Wales. | 0:13:50 | 0:13:54 | |
An issue for Welsh MPs and Assembly members. | 0:13:54 | 0:13:58 | |
And there is a schism between them. | 0:13:58 | 0:14:01 | |
And that is the point of that letter. | 0:14:01 | 0:14:03 | |
I know that in this place, | 0:14:03 | 0:14:06 | |
they have been complaining about what's been going on | 0:14:06 | 0:14:09 | |
with the Labour Party in England, | 0:14:09 | 0:14:13 | |
about Welsh MPs going out and saying they don't want Barnett. | 0:14:13 | 0:14:16 | |
Carwyn Jones knows that and that was his tactic. | 0:14:16 | 0:14:20 | |
Is there an aspect, here, that perhaps there are people here | 0:14:20 | 0:14:24 | |
and on opposition benches as well as in government, | 0:14:24 | 0:14:28 | |
that believe London isn't receiving the message loud and clear, | 0:14:28 | 0:14:31 | |
because there are Welsh politicians in England saying, "Don't listen to the Assembly. | 0:14:31 | 0:14:35 | |
"They don't really want these things. They are just saying it." | 0:14:35 | 0:14:38 | |
Certainly, that's happening. There is no doubt about that. | 0:14:38 | 0:14:41 | |
And there are people that say things publicly in this place | 0:14:41 | 0:14:46 | |
and then say slightly different things in different circles. | 0:14:46 | 0:14:52 | |
And so it isn't unreasonable for some of these Welsh politicians | 0:14:52 | 0:14:56 | |
to go around in London and say, | 0:14:56 | 0:14:59 | |
"They're not serious about this, boys." | 0:14:59 | 0:15:03 | |
Have we reached a situation where the Westminster Government must now decide who to listen to? | 0:15:03 | 0:15:08 | |
They have promised a decision before the end of spring. | 0:15:08 | 0:15:13 | |
I think spring technically lasts until 20th June. | 0:15:13 | 0:15:15 | |
I only learned that today. But they need to decide soon. | 0:15:15 | 0:15:21 | |
The commission, now they are talking about tax-raising powers | 0:15:21 | 0:15:26 | |
and I think that is something the Conservatives fundamentally want. | 0:15:26 | 0:15:30 | |
They want to hand responsibility to this place for its own spending. | 0:15:30 | 0:15:35 | |
I don't think it would be difficult for David Jones to bite his tongue and to see this through. | 0:15:35 | 0:15:41 | |
Just briefly, I was at a meeting with Ruth Davidson, | 0:15:41 | 0:15:44 | |
the leader of the Scottish Conservatives, last weekend, | 0:15:44 | 0:15:47 | |
and she was arguing in favour of devolving taxes | 0:15:47 | 0:15:49 | |
from a right-wing perspective | 0:15:49 | 0:15:51 | |
but the Welsh Conservatives in the audience, | 0:15:51 | 0:15:53 | |
for them it was a totally alien prospect. | 0:15:53 | 0:15:55 | |
Thank you. | 0:15:55 | 0:15:56 | |
We all know that politics is a serious business | 0:15:56 | 0:16:00 | |
but it's important for us all to smile now and again. | 0:16:00 | 0:16:03 | |
Barack Obama has succeeded in doing that in a video | 0:16:03 | 0:16:06 | |
where he pretends to play Daniel Day Lewis playing Barack Obama. | 0:16:06 | 0:16:11 | |
Was it hard playing Obama? | 0:16:13 | 0:16:15 | |
I'll be honest. Yeah, it was. | 0:16:15 | 0:16:18 | |
This accident took a while. | 0:16:18 | 0:16:19 | |
Hello, Ohio. Hello, Ohio! I love you back. | 0:16:19 | 0:16:23 | |
Look. Look. Let me be clear about this. | 0:16:23 | 0:16:25 | |
'The cosmetics were challenging. | 0:16:25 | 0:16:27 | |
'You wouldn't believe how long it takes to put these ears on.' | 0:16:27 | 0:16:30 | |
I don't know how he walks around with these things. | 0:16:30 | 0:16:33 | |
The hardest part? Trying to understand his motivations. | 0:16:33 | 0:16:37 | |
Why did he pursue health care first? What makes him tick? | 0:16:37 | 0:16:41 | |
Why doesn't he get mad? If I were him, I'd be mad all the time. | 0:16:41 | 0:16:44 | |
But I'm not him. I'm Daniel Day Lewis. | 0:16:44 | 0:16:47 | |
Well, how effective is comedy in politics | 0:17:00 | 0:17:03 | |
and are there enough laughs in Welsh politics? | 0:17:03 | 0:17:06 | |
I am joined by entertainer and comedian Gary Slaymaker. | 0:17:06 | 0:17:09 | |
It's hard to imagine a British politician even attempting something like that. | 0:17:09 | 0:17:13 | |
Yes. I think this is the domain of the Americans. | 0:17:13 | 0:17:17 | |
That was part of the Press Association speech that he | 0:17:17 | 0:17:20 | |
made at the beginning of the week and it was full of humour. | 0:17:20 | 0:17:23 | |
And it was humour aimed at himself. | 0:17:23 | 0:17:26 | |
I think the problem is that our politicians overthink things. | 0:17:26 | 0:17:30 | |
So they can't make fun of themselves. | 0:17:30 | 0:17:33 | |
But what was interesting, | 0:17:33 | 0:17:35 | |
and I'm sure he had a team of writers behind it | 0:17:35 | 0:17:38 | |
and a professional film crew to capture it | 0:17:38 | 0:17:40 | |
but it does require some degree of natural comedic timing, doesn't it? | 0:17:40 | 0:17:44 | |
-He clearly has it. -Yes. That was clear to see in the speech itself. | 0:17:44 | 0:17:49 | |
Anyone can learn to tell a joke that's timing is innate. | 0:17:49 | 0:17:53 | |
Barack Obama clearly has it. | 0:17:53 | 0:17:56 | |
George W Bush, even though I wasn't a fan, | 0:17:56 | 0:17:58 | |
clearly had it to some degree. He made several of these as well. | 0:17:58 | 0:18:01 | |
There was just something in his nature. | 0:18:01 | 0:18:04 | |
I think he knew that he was a buffoon, to say the least | 0:18:04 | 0:18:07 | |
and of course, the scripts were then written with that in mind. | 0:18:07 | 0:18:12 | |
I would have thought that the fear for British politicians is that things could go wrong. | 0:18:12 | 0:18:17 | |
One can think of examples, like Tony Banks calling William Hague, | 0:18:17 | 0:18:20 | |
"looks like an aborted foetus", I think was one. | 0:18:20 | 0:18:24 | |
-The disaster that happened when the Liberal Democrats... -Sarah Teather. | 0:18:24 | 0:18:28 | |
Yes. Anyone who performs comedy has watched that. | 0:18:28 | 0:18:33 | |
There was also a clip on Question Time | 0:18:33 | 0:18:36 | |
when a woman in the audience made a biting quip | 0:18:36 | 0:18:39 | |
and Sarah Teather didn't realise that it was a joke | 0:18:39 | 0:18:42 | |
until David Dimbleby had to point it out to her. | 0:18:42 | 0:18:44 | |
What I say is if you don't understand a joke, don't tell it! | 0:18:44 | 0:18:48 | |
Because she would just read out these jokes and you could almost see | 0:18:48 | 0:18:51 | |
the tumbleweed rolling through the studio! | 0:18:51 | 0:18:54 | |
Why, Richard, do you think, and there are examples of politicians | 0:18:54 | 0:18:58 | |
using humour, Tony Banks is one of them. | 0:18:58 | 0:19:00 | |
But it is rare in our politics, isn't it? | 0:19:00 | 0:19:02 | |
Obama is in a situation where not only is he a great orator | 0:19:02 | 0:19:06 | |
but the role of president is a bit above politics | 0:19:06 | 0:19:09 | |
so you got a bit more freedom in that role | 0:19:09 | 0:19:12 | |
but I've been to party conferences in Wales over the past few weeks | 0:19:12 | 0:19:15 | |
and I heard just one good joke, | 0:19:15 | 0:19:18 | |
which was Nick Clegg's joke about Lembit Opik. | 0:19:18 | 0:19:20 | |
That was the only genuinely funny one. | 0:19:20 | 0:19:23 | |
The other efforts were truly painful. Lots of mentions of sport. | 0:19:23 | 0:19:26 | |
I was going to say, more painful than the stuff about Cardiff city | 0:19:26 | 0:19:30 | |
-and the Swans and the Grand Slam? -It was awful. | 0:19:30 | 0:19:33 | |
Those efforts to connect with people were embarrassing. | 0:19:33 | 0:19:36 | |
There was just one good joke in all of those conferences! | 0:19:36 | 0:19:41 | |
The problem is they get good scripts but they can't present them well. | 0:19:41 | 0:19:45 | |
I think that is also lacking in our politics. | 0:19:45 | 0:19:50 | |
In the chamber here, how many speeches do we hear? | 0:19:50 | 0:19:53 | |
And half of them can't even read out their questions! | 0:19:53 | 0:19:56 | |
They aren't going to tell a joke if they can't even read out | 0:19:56 | 0:20:00 | |
a question on politics, which is their job! | 0:20:00 | 0:20:04 | |
And yet Gary, there are comedians, plenty of them, | 0:20:04 | 0:20:09 | |
who make political comments. It stems back to Ben Elton. | 0:20:09 | 0:20:13 | |
They are almost all left-wing. | 0:20:13 | 0:20:16 | |
There is a history, especially in Wales, we have a history of satire. | 0:20:16 | 0:20:19 | |
I fronted a programme on Radio Cymru for five years | 0:20:19 | 0:20:22 | |
where we just lampooned figures in the news. | 0:20:22 | 0:20:25 | |
You can go back to Pupur a Halen on Radio Cymru, Pelydr X, | 0:20:25 | 0:20:30 | |
programs like this. | 0:20:30 | 0:20:32 | |
It's easier to be on the outside, looking in on these | 0:20:32 | 0:20:35 | |
targets in government because PR is everything in politics now. | 0:20:35 | 0:20:40 | |
Image is so important. They can't let go. | 0:20:40 | 0:20:43 | |
We have the same problem in politics as in sport. | 0:20:43 | 0:20:46 | |
There are no personalities left. | 0:20:46 | 0:20:47 | |
Everything is controlled to such an extent that humour is stifled. | 0:20:47 | 0:20:52 | |
You talk about a lack of personalities. | 0:20:52 | 0:20:55 | |
What about someone like Boris Johnson, | 0:20:55 | 0:20:58 | |
who I'm not quite sure if he's making jokes | 0:20:58 | 0:21:02 | |
or whether he's some kind of performance art in himself. | 0:21:02 | 0:21:06 | |
Boris is an exception. He is a lovable buffoon. | 0:21:06 | 0:21:10 | |
A lot of the humour stemming from politics | 0:21:10 | 0:21:13 | |
comes from the perspective of the absurd. | 0:21:13 | 0:21:16 | |
Like John Redwood trying to sing the national anthem | 0:21:16 | 0:21:18 | |
or Boris stuck in a harness at the Olympic Games last year | 0:21:18 | 0:21:22 | |
or David Cameron being elected Prime Minister. | 0:21:22 | 0:21:24 | |
It doesn't get more absurd! | 0:21:24 | 0:21:27 | |
But I think that's what it is. | 0:21:27 | 0:21:29 | |
When we see these perfect personalities at their worst, | 0:21:29 | 0:21:32 | |
-that's where the comedy comes from. -In a way, it's our fault. | 0:21:32 | 0:21:37 | |
We've just been making fun of Sarah Teather | 0:21:37 | 0:21:39 | |
for trying to tell a joke and failing. | 0:21:39 | 0:21:41 | |
The thing is it's easier for them not to take the risk. | 0:21:41 | 0:21:44 | |
It's easier for them to play it safe | 0:21:44 | 0:21:46 | |
because if they happen to get it wrong, | 0:21:46 | 0:21:49 | |
and even comedians get it wrong sometimes, they won't be forgiven. | 0:21:49 | 0:21:52 | |
We will be there making fun of them on programmes like this, sniggering about it. | 0:21:52 | 0:21:57 | |
The best jokes happen by accident. | 0:21:57 | 0:22:00 | |
Maggie Thatcher saying, | 0:22:00 | 0:22:03 | |
"Every prime minister needs their own Willie". | 0:22:03 | 0:22:06 | |
I hadn't realised at the time she was talking about Willie Whitelaw! | 0:22:06 | 0:22:09 | |
Isn't that the problem, Gareth? | 0:22:09 | 0:22:12 | |
British humour is fairly crude and if you say something that is crude, | 0:22:12 | 0:22:16 | |
the Daily Mail and the Daily Express will be after you in their usual puritanical way. | 0:22:16 | 0:22:22 | |
As Richard said, why take the risk? | 0:22:22 | 0:22:25 | |
Yes but the thing is, what I'm saying is | 0:22:25 | 0:22:28 | |
they don't take the risk but they remain figures of fun in our world. | 0:22:28 | 0:22:32 | |
There is comedy in the House of Commons. | 0:22:32 | 0:22:37 | |
If we look at Dennis Skinner for example, | 0:22:37 | 0:22:41 | |
you can't get a better comedian than Dennis Skinner | 0:22:41 | 0:22:44 | |
and when you hear him speak in places like Blackpool, | 0:22:44 | 0:22:47 | |
he's better than any stand-up, in my opinion. | 0:22:47 | 0:22:50 | |
But the nature of the House of Commons has changed as well. | 0:22:50 | 0:22:53 | |
We don't have so many of those kind of skirmishes | 0:22:53 | 0:22:57 | |
as we had in the early days. | 0:22:59 | 0:23:03 | |
Gary, you were talking about the tradition of satire in Wales. | 0:23:03 | 0:23:06 | |
There isn't so much of that around nowadays. | 0:23:06 | 0:23:10 | |
-Is that because of a lack of characters? -To some extent. | 0:23:10 | 0:23:13 | |
At the same time, you can't write comedy | 0:23:13 | 0:23:15 | |
that rivals what the parties are handing us at the moment. | 0:23:15 | 0:23:18 | |
Miliband looks as though he was created by Aardman animation company | 0:23:18 | 0:23:21 | |
in the first place so there isn't much you can do to add to that. | 0:23:21 | 0:23:24 | |
Of course, the clowns we've got in this coalition, | 0:23:24 | 0:23:28 | |
it's one mess after another. | 0:23:28 | 0:23:30 | |
It's hard to write jokes when they do it for you. | 0:23:30 | 0:23:35 | |
You were talking about some of those programs like Haciwr and so on, | 0:23:35 | 0:23:39 | |
Spitting Image in English, where are those programs today? | 0:23:39 | 0:23:43 | |
It's a shame because you only got Mock The Week | 0:23:43 | 0:23:46 | |
and Have I Got News For You? | 0:23:46 | 0:23:48 | |
Our political situation is so interesting | 0:23:48 | 0:23:52 | |
that there should be more satire. | 0:23:52 | 0:23:54 | |
Thank you very much. | 0:23:54 | 0:23:56 | |
That's all for tonight. Thank you for watching. | 0:23:56 | 0:23:58 | |
We'll be back at the same time next week. Join us then. | 0:23:58 | 0:24:01 | |
For now, from the Assembly in Cardiff Bay, good night. | 0:24:01 | 0:24:05 |