08/05/2013 CF99

Hello and welcome to CF99 live from the National Assembly in Cardiff Bay.

On tonight's programme:

The Queen, the bling and the odd policy.

But was there any substance to today's ceremony?

It's nice to celebrate the footballing success,

but is it foolish to overplay the benefits for Welsh cities?

Joining me this evening is someone who has enjoyed

the success of his local team, the Labour MP for Newport West,

Paul Flynn.

And I'm also joined by Bethan Jenkins, Plaid Cymru AM

and from Westminster, the Tory MP for Aberconwy, Guto Bebb.

Welcome.

It was a big day for someone who is used to big events,

having reigned for such a long time.

But enough about Sir Alex Ferguson,

we will be talking about football later.

Although Fergie was competing with the Queen for the headlines

our first topic is the Queen's Speech

and the Government's legislative programme.

James Williams has been to have a look at the menu

a cafe in Pontypridd in order to explain more.

The Queen's Speech to the general public.

Despite the pomp and ceremony, these are meant to be policies

and legislation for the people on the high street and rural areas.

Only 150 miles separates Pontypridd from Westminster,

but on a day like this it seems a long way away.

But the message from the Government is that they support

the ordinary people, people who work hard and want to succeed in life.

It's less than a week since the disappointing results

for the coalition parties in the local elections.

Is there enough choice on the legislative menu

to please the voters?

These measures aren't in direct response

to those, maybe, poor results for the Conservatives.

These measures are long-term responses

and will have been prepared by the coalition for some months.

There is an attempt here to answer the question facing

all parties regard regarding immigration.

One of the main policies is to strengthen legislation

surrounding immigration.

Food for thought for UKIP members who did so well

in the local elections in England.

There's also pension policies

and to make some employers exempt from paying part of their

National Insurance contributions.

We are standing up for hard working people.

This is a Queen's Speech that will back aspiration

and those who want to get on.

This is a Queen's Speech that will make our country competitive again.

This is a Queen's Speech that will cut our deficit, grow our economy,

deliver a better future for our children and help us

to win the global race, and I commend it to the House.

He can't provide the answers the country needs

because he's lost control of his party.

As someone once said - he's in office but not in power.

Because what is their party spending their time talking about?

Not youth unemployment, not the NHS.

Not the living standards crisis, but the one subject

they are obsessing about day-in-day-out, Europe and UKIP.

But there has been plenty of interest in what's been left out.

There'll be no measures to sell cigarettes in plain packaging.

No minimum price on alcohol

and no new bill to give security services the power

to monitor emails and internet usage.

The last of these was dropped, it seems,

following opposition by the Lib Dems.

How much of a Lib Dem influence is there on the list?

The Liberal Democrats have influenced a lot

to try and make sure this Government continues

to be a government with heart

as well as being an accountant.

I'm sure a lot has gone into the programme,

and previous programmes,

because the Lib Dems are in government.

With devolution, different countries require different contents.

So what is the Welsh flavour to things?

Thank you.

Obviously a number of measures will affect all parts of the UK.

But for Wales there is a policy

to introduce a draft bill on the electoral system.

The aim is to lift the ban on candidates

standing on regional lists and in constituencies,

and to extend the Assembly's term to five years.

There is also the suggestion that the draft measure could be

a way of introduce introducing Silk Commission recommendations

on the Assembly's financial powers.

My Lords and Members of the House of Commons...

It is an historic and traditional ceremony but on a day

when many are talking about the retirement of a football manager,

has this ceremony and Establishment lost touch with the public?

The building near us here is part of the oldest

constitutional and democratic system in Britain.

The process of having this Queen's Speech

and what the coalition government is setting out

is part of the British history and the constitutional history.

We shouldn't give the pageant too much attention.

There is substance here as well.

Beyond the list of measures that were announced today

some others could be introduced and other matters, such as Europe,

that the Queen didn't mention today

will be given attention during the coming parliamentary term.

James Williams there.

We heard there that there was substance as well as ceremony,

but did it deserve that ceremony? It was a short speech?

Yes, and about time, too, I would say.

One of the problems with the coalition over the first three years

is the fact that we've tried to do too much.

As a Conservative, I feel strongly that it's important

the Government does a little but does it well.

I welcome we had the necessary measures being introduced here

but not too many of them.

Paul Flynn, whatever your opinion on the details,

and there will be debates about that,

there are things such as pensions, care for the elderly in England,

they are important things to be discussed?

Yes. And we agree with the measures on pensions.

But the next Government will be putting this legislation in place.

Nothing's going to happen for years.

We all want to see a flat rate pension,

people have been talking about that for years.

But it has no substance.

There was nothing about the Big Society, no new ideas.

The things that should be there is the lobbying bill.

Cameron said before the election,

that's the next scandal, but we have scandals right now.

The scandal is about the Cameron Cabinet.

We'll discuss what has not been included shortly.

But Bethan Jenkins, it is true to say if the economy is central

to the political argument, then most economic matters

aren't legislative.

No, but in the Welsh context

we only have a few powers when it comes to the economy.

As a party we would say that we are disappointed today

because there is nothing there about local taxes

and the fact we can't be responsible for our own justice system

or on natural resources over 100 megawatt.

We need these powers in Wales

so that we can make the decisions for ourselves.

Well, you brought Wales into it, so I'll move on to that.

Guto Bebb, this measure, or this draft measure

on changing the electoral system for the Assembly in Wales.

Do you know whether this measure is a measure that's a sort of omnibus

that can include elements from Silk Part One and so on?

Or will it be quite a limited bill?

To be honest, I don't really know the answer to the question.

I have responded to questions asked by the Welsh Office

about the questions raised about the election process.

At the moment we're not aware of what we will be going ahead with,

as far as the Silk Commission is concerned

or if they'll only look at changing the electoral system in Wales.

With changing the electoral system in Wales

we know that your party supports that, so do the Lib Dems

and Plaid Cymru.

But was it really a priority with all the other things

you could have introduced for Wales?

I sympathise with that argument.

Certainly some aspects of the 2006 Bill need to be changed.

I think those were political aspects made by the Labour Party.

I welcome the fact that candidates can stand on the lists

and for individual constituencies.

But I must admit, I don't think this is a priority for people in Wales

and I have doubts over extending the Assembly term to five years.

That means the Assembly term will be equal to about 10%

of other parliaments worldwide who sit for five consecutive years.

Seeing that you can't dissolve a government in the Assembly

I think five years is a long time.

We'll see what the arguments are.

Some interesting discussions to come.

Let's take a look at something you are interested in, Paul.

You represent, I'd think,

the most multiracial constituency in Wales.

What about this immigration policy?

The Government promised quite a large bill

but it seems unclear what will be included in this measure

because it's easier said than done.

It's disappointing.

It won't make a difference with people coming from Bulgaria

and Romania.

There will be no difference at all.

It's just a measure that may have some aspects.

We've already got laws in place to make sure people

won't take money or NHS services as immigrants.

What is more important to the Tories at the moment,

they want a Queen's Speech that will win them the next general election.

That's all it is. But that's what any politician is doing.

But there's nothing new in it.

The Government is blaming the previous government

and blaming Europe, and then blaming the civil service.

Immigration and Europe are just things to talk about.

That's the scheme of things by the party leader.

But it's nonsense...

But returning to the undemocratic system in Wales,

where Assembly Members lost votes

but still had their place in the Assembly.

William Graham didn't win in Newport, after being an AM.

Three candidates in Clwyd lost.

This gives the party the power and not the voter.

I want to stay with immigration.

Bethan, your constituents are concerned about immigration.

Part of the reason why the Government is responding

is because of UKIP.

But the reason why UKIP are winning votes is because

people do feel there is a problem

and political parties haven't responded to this problem.

My argument to that is the Conservatives are making cuts,

cutting things that are important to people at a local level

and then they see parties like UKIP and they see these stories in papers

like the Daily Mail and they are scared because

they are on lower wages and it is easy then to blame migrants.

They are not the problem.

It's the Westminster Government that's at fault

and they need to tackle these problems

rather than thinking that UKIP, especially in Wales, are a threat.

It's easy enough to say that every concern as a result of the Daily Mail

when it comes to demonising and so on,

people in places like Llanelli, Wrexham and so on,

they have seen a lot of people moving into the area.

There is a shortage of work.

These fears are real.

They are not concerns just made up by newspapers.

And that's why we need to act on the economy,

so that jobs are created in Wales.

And today didn't give the economy a boost.

Blaming migrants isn't the answer.

We need it make sure the economy is strong.

Of course transport is important.

Of course helping pensioners is important.

But the economy should be on top of the agenda, not UKIP.

Guto, we can discuss whether there are scare tactic here

but the truth is the Government will find it difficult to introduce

what it wants to do.

That's due of international agreements and EU regulations.

There is a danger that the Government will promise a lot

and will then fail to deliver.

There is an element of truth to that.

We will have to wait and see what the details are.

But it is a concern, not that people are moving into Britain and Wales.

People accept the contributions made by immigrants

is a valuable contribution.

But there is a concern that four million people have moved in

during the time of New Labour and of that four million

93% of them are working.

I don't think most of them are people who take advantage

of the welfare state.

They have been competing for the poorest jobs in our economy.

They are not competing against people like me or Bethan Jenkins,

they are competing for jobs against working class people.

It is understandable that there are worries.

UKIP had done best in Lincolnshire and the reason for that was

people have been priced out of jobs by immigration

which was out of control under Labour.

It's interesting in your constituency, Guto.

If someone stays in a hotel in Llandudno,

more often than not the waiting staff will have a foreign accent.

Many hotels in Llandudno wouldn't exist without staff

from Eastern Europe and they are excellent staff.

But we have thousands working in that sector

within my constituency and yet and there are 1,000 out of work

in my constituency.

People in Llandudno are aware that they can't get jobs

that pays more than the minimum wage

because businesses can recruit from Eastern Europe.

For now, thanks.

Well, you'd have to have been hiding in a cave over recent weeks

not to be aware of the success of Wales' football clubs.

Next season Wales will have two Premier League teams

and Newport will rejoin the Football League after a 25 year absence.

Wrexham came very close as well.

There's plenty of speculation as to the financial benefits this

success could bring to our cities.

So with the help of the round ball can Cardiff, Swansea and Newport

expect a bright future?

Some of the scenes of celebration. Paul Flynn, you were at Wembley.

How much of a difference will having a team in League Two,

I still call it the Fourth Division, these days?

Newport city centre is looking pretty poor these days.

A football team will not resolve that?

Yes, it will. It makes a huge difference to self-confidence

in the city and the way people feel.

It was in incredible at Wembley. It will be the same in Cardiff.

There will also be some kind of celebration in Westminster.

I'm behind all the Welsh teams.

The only problem at the moment is that Wrexham

are not in the Football League

but I hope they'll get promoted next season.

But there is a lot of publicity and attention in the press.

It's a huge advantage.

Swansea's in your constituency.

Has it made a real difference financially?

I think it has made a significant difference in giving locals jobs

but I have been researching to see the long-term affect

of how it'll help Swansea.

We have seen that as the Government has cut public sector jobs,

as Swansea suffers from not having enough public sector jobs,

we haven't seen this money that Cardiff University has had,

£58 million, I think, coming through.

It has been benefiting you.

Maybe it's a balance seeing Swansea having a boost from the football.

Of course, psychologically and culturally

it is fantastic for Swansea and Cardiff and Newport

but we must look at how the economy can benefit.

I heard someone say saying that people at the university

are celebrating these Premier League promotions

because it brings in foreign students.

They are choosing an university on the basis of a football team.

Is there an element of that in Swansea?

Yes, possibly people are hearing about Swansea.

Michael Laudrup, the manager, of course is from Denmark.

He probably hadn't been to Swansea beforehand.

People from Denmark want to come to Wales

to see what is happening in Swansea.

Of course, it is good for tourism

and the city and hopefully Cardiff will also benefit.

We can look at teams that have been successful in plenty of poor areas.

Sunderland, even Liverpool and Everton.

They have been very poor at times. It doesn't automatically bring success?

No, but you can look at the development of Manchester as a city

due to the success of Manchester United.

There is a case to be made.

You must remember Cardiff and Swansea reaching the Premier League

is success in itself.

For Liverpool and Everton, you could argue they've been underperforming,

but the publicity and TV coverage involved with the Premier League

is sure to make a difference for Cardiff and Swansea.

How did you respond to seeing Newport beating Wrexham?

I was disappointed.

I was at the Racecourse on Monday for the Welsh Cup Final

and it was disappointing that Wrexham failed to gain promotion.

But Newport had been out of the Football League for 25 years

and Wrexham have only been out for five years.

I hope we'll be returning next season.

I hope that 25 years isn't the minimum of the sentence.

What can local councils and local bodies do to take advantage of this?

There must be a role for the Tourist Board and so on

to take advantage of this situation?

Yes, football is important at the moment.

Nothing like this has ever happened in my life before.

Back in the 1950s when I watched Cardiff City

there was none of this publicity and attention.

The news of Manchester United today is as big for the BBC

as the Queen's Speech.

Nothing like this has ever happened before.

There is a lot of interest and the whole of Cardiff

have come together with a lot of energy

and it's very, very exciting.

It's very good for the students as well.

It's very important that this goes worldwide.

Bethan Jenkins, what do you make of the way Alex Ferguson

beat the Queen today in the news?

Is that a bad thing or is it a healthy attitude?

Is it a healthy attitude towards politicians and ceremonies?

I think it is important for many people what happens in football.

I think maybe there was some spin at play with him

deciding to leave today, announcing it today.

But, maybe there wasn't much of interest in the Queen's Speech

and so Fergie has taken over the news in Wales.

The Royal Family at its own Fergie at one time.

That's it for another week. I'll be back here next Wednesday.

Remember our programme, "O'r Bae"

on Radio Cymru at 2pm on Friday afternoon.

But for now, good night.