Browse content similar to 05/09/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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You can tell a summer holiday is over, the sun is out. Parliament is | :00:21. | :00:31. | |
:00:31. | :00:38. | ||
Yes, welcome to this new season of the Daily Politics, which will take | :00:38. | :00:44. | |
us through the party conferences and all the way up to Christmas. | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
But you wonder if we should ever have been away! We've had riots in | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
major English cities. Billions of pounds of damage caused. The | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
prisons filling up with those arrested and convicted. The House | :00:54. | :01:04. | |
of Commons was recalled and battle joined over how to react. | :01:04. | :01:08. | |
causes are complex, simplistic solutions won't provide the answer. | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
We've had revolution in Libya. What seemed stalemate in July looks like | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
victory in September. It's not all over yet. But Gaddafi is beaten and | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
in hiding, to the delight of both rebels and Western political | :01:18. | :01:25. | |
leaders. The Libyan people have taken their | :01:25. | :01:30. | |
country back. A cross Libya, millions are enjoying Eid for the | :01:30. | :01:36. | |
first time free of a vicious dictatorship. | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
Not only that we've had the mother of all phone hacking scandals, | :01:39. | :01:44. | |
turmoil in the financial markets and slowdown in the economy. Which | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
makes for a busy half hour! And with us for the whole programme | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
today we have the Home Office Minister, Nick Herbert, for the | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
Conservatives. Shadow Health Minister, Diane Abbott, for Labour. | :01:54. | :01:59. | |
And the Deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats, Simon Hughes. | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
So, first day back at school here at Westminster. But no time for | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
sitting around and comparing tans and holiday snaps. It's straight | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
back into the serious stuff of high-politics and low mud-slinging. | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
Nick Clegg's been out already this morning. He was appearing with some | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
school kids ahead of a speech insisting he'd never allow Free | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
Schools to make a profit. Meanwhile, over in the Commons his | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
backbenchers are grumbling again about the Government's NHS reforms. | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
This is ahead of a big debate tomorrow. A meeting of the Lib Dem | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
Parliamentary Party takes place a little later today which will | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
decide just how many of them are prepared to back their own | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
ministers. For Labour, tales of woe from Gordon Brown's Cabinet just | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
keep on coming. According to the former Chancellor, Alistair Darling, | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
there were bitter fights over economic policy. And of course | :02:51. | :02:59. | |
there is the Prime Minister himself. He took the view I was being too | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
cautious. Every Treasury in the world is cautious. He took the view | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
it would be over in six months. took the view I have been | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
exaggerating and was misled by the advice I received. | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
David Cameron might have spent some of his summer holidays at the | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
Highland Games in Braemar. But he, like the rest of us, is waiting to | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
find out if the Conservative Party in Scotland decides to sever all | :03:22. | :03:32. | |
:03:32. | :03:34. | ||
ties with their past. And if it does, will anybody notice? | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
Diane Abbott, you fought the last election led by a man who ran the | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
Government like a Cavaldi, who tried to destroy his own Chancellor | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
and he thought our economic problems would be all over in six | :03:48. | :03:54. | |
months, did you know any of that? am one of the people who did not | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
nominate him to be leader of the party. It might have been better to | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
have a contested election. I am surprised at people like Alastair | :04:02. | :04:09. | |
Darling, who did nominate him, now launching these attacks. | :04:09. | :04:14. | |
happened on a Thursday night in this very studio. I seemed to | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
remember some anticipation on your part as Mr Brown as the Great | :04:18. | :04:22. | |
Leader? I am one of these optimistic people and I am sure | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
that is why I am on the left in politics. If Gordon Brown was as | :04:27. | :04:32. | |
terrible as all that, why didn't he do something at the time? The | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
problem is with these newspaper serialisations, you make more money | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
out of newspaper then you do selling the book. And to get it see | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
realised you have to have these juicy bits. I will wait to read the | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
book. But, the continuity in this, which is why it is not right to say, | :04:50. | :04:55. | |
it is all history. Is a man at the centre of this, who shared Mr | :04:55. | :05:01. | |
Brown's views on the deficit, as opposed to Mr Darling's is Mr Ed | :05:01. | :05:07. | |
Balls who is the Shadow Chancellor? He is a great man and a grey shadow | :05:07. | :05:15. | |
chancellor. Will he not cut the deficit as Mr Brown did? Not at all. | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
They can be decided by the shadow cabinet as a whole on her by Ed | :05:20. | :05:29. | |
Miliband. Can we just write that down? Simon Hughes, Nick Clegg | :05:29. | :05:36. | |
talking about free schools this morning. Almost trying to be in | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
opposition in Government at the same time. He will be saying they | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
won't be allowed to make a profit, when has Michael Gove said they | :05:42. | :05:48. | |
would be? I'm not sure he has, it was a Tory idea and not our idea | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
and came into the coalition agreement from the Tory side. | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
Clegg said it was in your manifesto? They are slightly | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
different, I won't get into the technicalities but it was a bid | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
from the Tory side of the coalition. We came to an agreement. Then there | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
is a concern they were going to give them a special status and | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
position and there was a risk they would take money from money that | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
would be in the pot for local authority schools. What Nick Clegg | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
was trying to do this morning was a lay some of the concerns of things | :06:22. | :06:28. | |
that wouldn't happen. Is he worried about people like you and about | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
people in the Lib Dem conference coming up. Because in your | :06:32. | :06:40. | |
conference last year, live on the Daily Politics, your conference | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
approved a motion urging people not to take up the free school option. | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
Your party is against it? believe the best way is to have | :06:51. | :06:53. | |
comprehensive education in a Democratic way. So you are against | :06:53. | :06:58. | |
free schools? It has always been tension as to what you give people | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
the freedom to create a school. That is why you can justify | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
denominations schools. Whether that eats into the resources available. | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
My judgment has always been we need to make sure they don't take | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
resources that are available for schools. Are you for against free | :07:17. | :07:23. | |
schools? I prefer local authority schools. So you are against them? | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
I'm not against them... You won't be encouraging any to be formed in | :07:27. | :07:33. | |
your neck of the woods? No, I won't. Nick Herbert, I know it is not your | :07:33. | :07:39. | |
decision because you are an English Tory, but do you agree with the | :07:39. | :07:45. | |
idea the Scottish Conservative Party should just abolish itself? | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
think it is a reasonable debate to kick off. In the end it has to be a | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
decision for because they have -- Scottish Conservative Party. | :07:53. | :07:58. | |
tried to pre-empt that answer. is a perfectly reasonable debate to | :07:58. | :08:03. | |
have. What the Scottish people want, I think it is a real choice and I | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
think that if they are able to be given the choice in terms of the | :08:08. | :08:13. | |
things we stand for, it is a possibility. You are Unionist? | :08:13. | :08:20. | |
a Unionist, but I am happy for this debate to be had. The decision | :08:20. | :08:27. | |
should rest with members... It is a good debate to have, we are having | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
it, it is not your decision, but what is your opinion? My opinion is | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
I am happy and proud to be a member of the Conservative Party which is | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
a Unionist Party. But, equally in Northern Ireland for instance, we | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
ran on a platform in the last election or where we had an | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
association with members of another party. That is something that could | :08:47. | :08:54. | |
be considered. Let's have the debate. Wouldn't it be seen as a | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
cosmetic, rebranding exercise? is a thing we have got to decide. | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
The person advocating this said it would be about a fundamental change. | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
They have to have the debate and let it take place in Scotland and | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
let the members of the party decide. He rebranded yourselves? You used | :09:12. | :09:18. | |
to be the Tories' and then in 1834 U became the Conservatives. But we | :09:18. | :09:26. | |
still call you the Tories? You do, and parties go through periods | :09:27. | :09:33. | |
where they remain themselves but the core values survive of security | :09:33. | :09:42. | |
and individual responsibility. Those will remain. Now there used | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
to be a time we called the 'silly season' between the House of | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
Commons going into recess in mid- July and the start of the Party | :09:49. | :09:51. | |
Conference season in mid-September. Most August months are news-free | :09:51. | :10:01. | |
:10:01. | :10:02. | ||
zones. A barren month punctuated only by shots of fresh-faced | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
teenagers celebrating their A level results and the latest parade of | :10:05. | :10:14. | |
wannabes and D-list celebrities parading into the Big Brother House. | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
But not this year! Here's David Thompson So the summer was blighted | :10:18. | :10:20. | |
by riots across England, Parliament was recalled and no-one was talking | :10:20. | :10:30. | |
:10:30. | :10:40. | ||
This is the most humble they are my life. The ICA the fightback has | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
begun, we will protect you. It might not have been a long hot, | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
summer but it has not been dull. We have had riots, Libya and phone | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
hacking and Parliament has been recalled not once, but technically | :10:53. | :10:59. | |
twice. Testing time for politicians. How have Ed Miliband and David | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
Cameron done? Does this summer give us any political clues about the | :11:03. | :11:08. | |
summer ahead? England's troubles cities have given David Cameron a | :11:08. | :11:14. | |
major challenge. Can he turn crisis into opportunity? David Cameron | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
emerges from this with a chance to relaunch his premiership. We are | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
about to discover whether he can use the riots and accommodation of | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
the lift he will get out of his victory in Libya, will he use that | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
as a chance to really give his Government a new mission this | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
autumn? We will know the answer to that probably by the beginning or | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
the middle of October. Given the correct response to the riot was | :11:40. | :11:45. | |
vital for Ed Miliband, too. But did the phone hacking round give his | :11:45. | :11:52. | |
leadership a makeover? Ed Miliband has had a good summer. He was | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
convincing on the whole Rupert Murdoch scandal. Tying it into what | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
many people regard as the corrosion of public life and on the riots, he | :12:01. | :12:06. | |
didn't fall into the trap of being seen to equate it with the cuts all | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
the great social discord. images which define the summer, but | :12:11. | :12:16. | |
will they fade with time or help shape the party leaders? | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
Miliband responded effectively to the phone hacking crisis and showed | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
he had some steel and his party liked it. But he hasn't formulated | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
a message of a kind which really seems to Connect in any meaningful | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
way with the sort of voters he needs to stand a chance of winning | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
the next election. That is what this autumn will be about for him, | :12:36. | :12:41. | |
he has to put flesh on the bone. The greatest criticism within the | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
Tory party and outside it and that of the David Cameron is he is not | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
strongly right wing, people don't know what he is. He asked to define | :12:50. | :12:55. | |
that this autumn. As normal service resumes in Westminster, the | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
extraordinary events of recent weeks will fall into perspective. | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
But now, this feels like a summer of change. | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
The summer season was blighted by riots, Parliament was recalled and | :13:08. | :13:14. | |
nobody was talking about hugging hoodies any more. On 10th August, | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
David Cameron said, "There are pockets of our society that are not | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
only broken, but frankly sick". The following week he vowed to tackle | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
the "slow-motion moral collapse" affecting parts of the country. By | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
contrast Labour leader, Ed Miliband, talked about a wider "crisis of | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
values". In a speech on the 15th August he made a link between the | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
values of the looters and those of the bankers. "Our whole country is | :13:35. | :13:40. | |
held back by irresponsibility, wherever it is found". Deputy Prime | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
Minister, Nick Clegg, attacked the "smash and grab" culture of those | :13:43. | :13:49. | |
involved in the unrest. Although he did also say that the best response | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
was to give people "opportunities to get ahead so they feel they have | :13:53. | :14:02. | |
a stake in their own future". Diane Abbott, let me come to you | :14:02. | :14:08. | |
first. Now it has died down a bit, we are standing back a bit. Did | :14:08. | :14:15. | |
these riots have anything to do with coalition policy or not? | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
practical terms, no, not least because the coalition policies have | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
yet to feed to those on the ground, particularly the cuts. I never said | :14:23. | :14:30. | |
the cuts caused the riots. But David Cameron and Nick Clegg have | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
agreed an inquiry where they will go into communities and ask them | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
what they think happened. So when Harriet Harman specifically linked | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
the riots to the cuts in the educational maintenance allowance, | :14:42. | :14:51. | |
that wasn't true? It is not a causal link, but there is no doubt | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
cuts in education funding have affected communities and their | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
perception of what opportunities there are for them. Nick Herbert, | :14:57. | :15:02. | |
you are talking about taking �2 billion out of the police budget in | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
the spending round and increasing the budget for international did | :15:06. | :15:16. | |
:15:16. | :15:16. | ||
allotment by �2 billion. How does It is exactly why our policy of | :15:16. | :15:21. | |
free schools is designed to extend educational opportunities. In | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
relation to police funding, we have to deal with the deficit, of a | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
police can make their share of the savings. A report today has been | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
produced by policy exchange, an independent think-tank, pointing | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
out there are thousands of officers in backroom positions who Onuoha | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
near the front line. We can make savings and still do that in a way | :15:42. | :15:47. | |
that protects the visible and available policing. The Policy | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
Exhange, you call it an independent think-tank, it is centre right. | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
is a good report. The Inspectorate of Constabulary have said exactly | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
that the same thing. They said there were 25,000 police officers | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
in back and middle office positions, not on the front line. There is | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
plenty of scope for savings if forces work more efficiently. Have | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
I reject the idea that a cut in funding means there has to be a | :16:14. | :16:21. | |
poorer service for the public. they are Johnson of London -- and | :16:21. | :16:23. | |
Boris Johnson said the riots undermined the case for cutting | :16:23. | :16:29. | |
police budgets, he was wrong? disagree. In London, he is | :16:29. | :16:34. | |
increasing the numbers of officers from the level he inherited. It is | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
not about that in London. He was talking about outside London. | :16:39. | :16:45. | |
Meyers are bound to bid for... is the Mayor of London. He was | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
talking about outside London. is not the time to think about | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
making substantial cuts in police numbers, I am looking at the | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
country as a whole, he said. He was talking about outside London. He | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
said himself he had addressed the situation in London and he was | :17:03. | :17:09. | |
increasing the numbers. Snares are bound to bid for more money. -- | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
Meyers. We have a deficit and we have to be -- deal with it. There | :17:14. | :17:20. | |
is plenty of scope for saving. did it take a riot, or several | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
riots, for you to decide you needed to do something about gangs? That | :17:23. | :17:30. | |
is simply not the case. There has been ongoing work. The government's | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
College and a set up by David Cameron in opposition when he | :17:33. | :17:38. | |
talked about social responsibility and some of the social measures we | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
need to take in terms of radical reform in both education, that | :17:42. | :17:47. | |
Michael Gove was talking about last week, extending opportunity and | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
improving discipline and opportunity, and Iain Duncan | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
Smith's agenda of welfare reform, were set in train some time ago. | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
Could they have been embraced under a coalition programme. We are | :18:00. | :18:05. | |
embarked on an agenda that his social reform. Simon Hughes, you | :18:05. | :18:12. | |
warned against knee-jerk policy responses, have you seen any? | :18:12. | :18:20. | |
have seen the courts be tougher than normal. And I think some of | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
those will have sentences which may be reduced on appeal. There should | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
be an addition for taking part in a riot. Were these tough sentences | :18:28. | :18:34. | |
knee-jerk? They were a response... A word a knee-jerk? They weren't a | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
knee-jerk response, but they were a response that was a difficult one | :18:38. | :18:43. | |
to judge. OK. I have seen a debate which I welcome about how we are | :18:43. | :18:48. | |
more effective with our policing. I am very clear and I am a London MP, | :18:48. | :18:53. | |
I don't think you need to see a reduction in police numbers if you | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
see a reduction in budget. Brian Paddick said this morning that if | :18:58. | :19:03. | |
you look, for example, at the extras that senior police officers | :19:03. | :19:08. | |
in the net get, extra accommodation, chauffeur-driven cars, there are | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
lots of things you can take out. I discovered, I didn't know this | :19:13. | :19:18. | |
before, that most police officers in London are not allowed to go out | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
and deal with public order offences because they are not trained to | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
have body armour and helmets. That is ridiculous. All police on the | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
streets ought to be on to deal with all situations. Wood cutting the | :19:30. | :19:38. | |
welfare benefits of a family with a member involved in riots could be a | :19:38. | :19:43. | |
knee-jerk response? I am not in favour of that. I have warned that | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
kicking people out of public sector housing and taking benefits await | :19:47. | :19:52. | |
seems the wrong response. Evicting a family from council property, | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
which Southwark council has, that his knee-jerk? They haven't yet. | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
They have talked about it. They want to do it. I will tell you why | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
it is illogical. If you have two people who go into Argos to make | :20:05. | :20:11. | |
staff and one happens to live in a council property and one is also | :20:11. | :20:16. | |
living in private property, to distinguish between them is invalid. | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
Younger siblings will suffer. On the question of sentencing, I would | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
say this. The public would expect sentencing to be a little higher | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
given the context and the system of appeals will help to deal with them. | :20:28. | :20:36. | |
Will we see more riots? I hope not. I would add on sentencing, | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
exemplary sentences are important and they have been set | :20:39. | :20:45. | |
independently. I visited one of the courts. How can you support | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
exemplary sentences, which is basically banging people up for a | :20:48. | :20:56. | |
longer time than normal, how can you do that and cut prison funding? | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
For the Prime Minister has been clear. There will be enough places | :20:59. | :21:04. | |
provided to ensure the courts can give a prison sentence. There is a | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
difference between cramming people in and giving them the sort of | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
experience that might help to rehabilitate them. I would agree | :21:11. | :21:16. | |
that up he might have space to cram them in. Are you prepared at more | :21:16. | :21:23. | |
prison spaces? We will provide sufficient prison spaces. | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
police could end up arresting 25,000 people and there might be a | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
lot more convictions. You are prepared to add more prison places | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
to accommodate these people? So far there have been over 2000 arrests | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
and half of those have been charged. We can learn the lessons over house | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
with just as was. That has not answered my question. Sufficient | :21:43. | :21:50. | |
places will be available. Does that mean you are prepared to increase | :21:50. | :21:56. | |
the prison population? The Prime Minister answered it, he said | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
enough places will be available. I agree with Diane, it is not just | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
about incarcerating people, it is also about reducing reoffending and | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
breaking the cycle. Where will these extra prison places come | :22:09. | :22:15. | |
from? We have been able to accommodate those that have been | :22:15. | :22:21. | |
incarcerated in present by sentences in response to the riots. | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
It is the government's responsibility to ensure there will | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
be sufficient... Are you confident they are getting the education they | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
would normally get? Are you confident they are getting the | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
support they would normally get? is so important that we have a | :22:36. | :22:41. | |
prison system that does work and works to reduce reoffending. 17% of | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
those that have been charged in the riots have had previous convictions. | :22:45. | :22:52. | |
-- 70%. We need to move on to Libya. Diane Garbutt, you described Libya | :22:52. | :22:59. | |
in May as an elf entered intervention. -- Diane Abbott. It | :22:59. | :23:04. | |
is not sustainable. Would you like to change your opinion? A lot of | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
backbench MPs thought that. We were glad to vote for the original | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
intervention because we thought we were protecting the people in the | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
cities. You have been proved wrong by events. This is a bit like Iraq. | :23:16. | :23:22. | |
There was a point when everyone was crying victory. Bush had this | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
banner, mission accomplished. Let's not say mission accomplished yet. | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
You also said, where advisers go, troops can be found behind. The | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
British public will be wringing their hands tomorrow. Troops have | :23:34. | :23:40. | |
and followed and I am glad of that. I think it is right that backbench | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
MPs should express what a lot of the British public were thinking. | :23:44. | :23:49. | |
It would have been very poor... Even if you were wrong. | :23:49. | :23:55. | |
public's concerns are valid. Let me bring the one to another public | :23:55. | :24:05. | |
concern. How ashamed are you to discover the incredible extent and | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
complicity of the last Labour government with Colonel Gaddafi? | :24:10. | :24:15. | |
Well... As you know there are a number of aspects of the last | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
Labour government I was not absolutely thrilled was. Things | :24:18. | :24:25. | |
will come out... Things have come out, how ashamed of you? The idea | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
that our security services, under a Labour government, would be | :24:29. | :24:34. | |
complicit in returning someone to Libya clearly to be tortured, and | :24:34. | :24:43. | |
he was tortured, for three years. have always been against any breath | :24:43. | :24:45. | |
of intimation that British government could be involved with | :24:45. | :24:50. | |
torture. How about the Prime Minister helping side Gaddafi with | :24:50. | :24:56. | |
his PhD thesis? Why was it necessary... I understood and the | :24:56. | :25:01. | |
point that he wanted to change the trajectory that Libya was on, but | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
it did not mean that Labour had to climb into bed with them. | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
Parliament known, you can be assured parliamentarians on both | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
sides would have expressed their concern about these things. In your | :25:14. | :25:21. | |
view, what is worst of the Blair years, the way Mr Blair cosy up to | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
Mr Gaddafi or Mr Blair becoming a godfather to one of Mr Murdoch's | :25:26. | :25:32. | |
children? You are tempting me! In the long run, the fact that Tony | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
Blair was godfather... It is a close call. Was it acceptable that | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
MI6 helped Mr Gaddafi's forces with anti- Gaddafi rebels? I would not | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
be able to comment on that allegation. Other than to say that | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
clearly such matters are serious. The Prime Minister is making a | :25:52. | :25:58. | |
statement to the House later and I understand he has suggested that | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
this may be a proper matter for an inquiry. There is an existing | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
inquiry, the gives an inquiry, and that could be extended to consider | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
matters of such collusion and the British government must always | :26:09. | :26:16. | |
stand against torture and improper behaviour. There must be a concern | :26:16. | :26:19. | |
among MPs like yourself that this sort of thing isn't continuing | :26:19. | :26:24. | |
elsewhere. Firstly, we should have gone into Libya to protect Libby -- | :26:24. | :26:29. | |
Libyan people. Secondly, I was very clear that it looked on the | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
evidence as if there was illegal rendition in the last government. | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
The gives an inquiry is the right place to start and it would be | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
logical to get a High Court judge to look into this. But I do have | :26:40. | :26:46. | |
the concern that there are other despotic regimes in North Africa | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
and the Middle East. We must be very careful that our foreign | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
policy does not continue to sustain them in the same way, including | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
potentially detention of people in large numbers in Syria. My | :26:57. | :27:02. | |
particular concern is the way we manage our arms trade. We have | :27:02. | :27:07. | |
often made a lot of money out of selling arms to countries with | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
regimes we should in no way be publicly supporting. I hope that | :27:10. | :27:15. | |
will be a review. A on the economy, why it is the recovery worse than | :27:15. | :27:21. | |
the recession? In what respect? Falling living standards, | :27:21. | :27:26. | |
unemployment among young people, no sense of growth, growth is lower | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
than it was a year ago. For most people the recovery is hurting more | :27:30. | :27:36. | |
than the recession. Globally, we have seen the problems in the | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
United States. We can't pretend we are insulated from that and | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
insulated from things like rising commodity prices. But it is | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
important that remain tame the course of getting hold of the | :27:48. | :27:53. | |
deficit by doing that. We succeed in having market confidence in the | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
economy. You have to do something about growth as well. For most | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
damaging thing we could do in relation to growth would be to | :28:01. | :28:08. | |
choke it off. By losing that confidence, taking the advice of Ed | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
Balls and others who say we should increase spending at this time, we | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
have seen the fact that a huge surge of spending in the US has not | :28:16. | :28:21. | |
produced the growth they want. The important thing is to maintain that | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
confidence, maintain our course. What spending would Labour make -- | :28:26. | :28:31. | |
spending cuts would lead to make to cut the deficit? But we have run | :28:31. | :28:37. | |
out of Tarin! Don't say I am not good to you! -- we have run out of | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
time. That's all for today, thanks to our | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
guests. I'll be back tomorrow along with Jo Coburn for an extended | :28:43. | :28:46. | |
programme. There's just too much politics to cram into half an hour. | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
Not least Boris Johnson in front of one Select Committee talking about | :28:49. | :28:52. |