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Conference Special

Andrew Neil is in Liverpool for the Labour Party's annual conference with Jo Coburn in Westminster with all the other top political stories of the day.


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Afternoon, folks. From the last day of the French Socialist Party

:00:20.:00:26.

Conference on the Cote D'Azur... Actually it is the last day of the

:00:26.:00:29.

British Labour Party Conference here in Liverpool. But the weather

:00:29.:00:34.

has turned it into the Cote de Mersey. And Ed Miliband, by turning

:00:34.:00:37.

his back on the Blair-Brown, may find he ends up closer to the

:00:37.:00:46.

mainstream of continental socialism than New Labour ever was. That is

:00:46.:00:49.

the view in Liverpool this morning, where the Labour Party Conference

:00:49.:00:55.

is winding down. Within the hour, the party's deputy leader, Harriet

:00:55.:00:58.

Harman, will close the conference with what everyone hopes will be a

:00:58.:01:04.

rousing speech. Expect the red flag flying, tears, emotion and some

:01:04.:01:11.

hugs. We will be reviewing Labour's year with Alan Johnson, the former

:01:11.:01:14.

Home Secretary. He never actually turned up to this conference but we

:01:14.:01:21.

tracked him down. And do you know Ed Miliband appeared to have no

:01:21.:01:24.

idea this morning, even though he is tipped to be the next Labour

:01:24.:01:33.

leader in Scotland. He is called Ken MacIntosh. And that's not all.

:01:33.:01:39.

Jo is in London. And away from the conference centre, there is

:01:39.:01:42.

continued trouble in Euroland. The German parliament have just voted

:01:42.:01:46.

to approve an increase in the size of the euro bail out fund. But our

:01:46.:01:48.

Foreign Secretary has called the eurozone a burning building without

:01:48.:01:51.

exits and the Deputy Prime Minister warned that the crisis could cause

:01:51.:02:01.
:02:01.:02:05.

the EU itself to rupture. So is Yes, all that coming up in the next

:02:05.:02:10.

hour of public service broadcasting at its finest. Actually it is the

:02:10.:02:13.

only public service broadcasting that covers the last day of the

:02:13.:02:16.

Labour Conference, which has been visibly wilting since Mr Miliband

:02:16.:02:22.

spoke on Tuesday afternoon. Most delegates, three quarters of the

:02:22.:02:24.

Shadow Cabinet and every single hack except for me, has hot-footed

:02:24.:02:30.

it out of Liverpool. Just why Labour drags its conference on till

:02:30.:02:33.

Thursday is one of the great mysteries of British politics,

:02:33.:02:35.

especially since both other main national parties manage to end on

:02:36.:02:45.
:02:46.:02:46.

Anyway who would want to miss Hattie's address? Certainly not the

:02:46.:02:53.

couple of Labour bloggers we have assembled for your delectation. Dan

:02:53.:03:03.
:03:03.:03:09.

Hodges from Labour Uncut and Mark Give me your overview of this

:03:09.:03:13.

conference. Ed Miliband is facing some criticisms about lack of

:03:13.:03:19.

direction, lack of strategy. He has dealt with that. We know who he is.

:03:19.:03:24.

He has pitched and self as a Liberal intellectual. You know what

:03:24.:03:31.

his strategy is. We know what his strategy is. He is going to take on

:03:31.:03:36.

the British establishment on behalf of the British people. I think that

:03:36.:03:41.

is a completely suicidal electoral strategy. Give him credit.

:03:42.:03:47.

think all that. You do not think it is the right thing to do. No. He

:03:47.:03:52.

had had a debate and discussion about where the middle ground is.

:03:52.:03:57.

Ed Miliband attempted to articulate where it was in his speech on

:03:57.:04:02.

Tuesday. The general consensus is that where Ed Miliband and those

:04:02.:04:05.

around him see the middle ground resting is not whether British

:04:05.:04:10.

people see it resting. That is his problem. Her what is your take on

:04:10.:04:16.

it? This has been an average conference. The Poles will have

:04:16.:04:23.

hardly shifted at all. We have gained nothing. We have not lost

:04:23.:04:27.

much. Someone said to me yesterday, we're all in quite a good mood but

:04:27.:04:34.

we do not know why. I think a lot of us a slightly wondering why we

:04:34.:04:41.

are here. Not just you but never mind. Let's move on quickly over

:04:41.:04:47.

that. Let me maybe bring down your ambition and say that one thing has

:04:47.:04:51.

been achieve. I am not sure the wider public has a better idea who

:04:51.:04:59.

Ed Miliband is that your party has. That is part of the problem. The

:04:59.:05:03.

whole mood of the conference and his speech was pitched very much at

:05:04.:05:09.

the Labour Party. When we arrived in Liverpool, everyone was clear

:05:09.:05:13.

about what Ali -- Ed Miliband needed to do. He needed to start to

:05:13.:05:21.

connect with the electorate. I take slight issue. I think people will

:05:21.:05:26.

start to look at him and have greater clarity about who Ed

:05:26.:05:32.

Miliband his in the wider public. As I said, I am concerned about his

:05:33.:05:40.

political position. Is he what the public wants? We you go along with

:05:40.:05:45.

what the Labour Party is saying about moving to a clear left-wing

:05:45.:05:52.

anti-establishment position? -- Will you go along? He does not seem

:05:52.:05:57.

very anti-establishment to me. is a former Treasury special

:05:57.:06:02.

adviser. He is part of the Establishment himself. This will

:06:02.:06:09.

take some work, at the very least. For me, I am not sure what they

:06:09.:06:16.

take away from this. Would I go not to -- what was the key message from

:06:17.:06:20.

this conference? There is a lot of mood music but not a key message

:06:21.:06:30.
:06:31.:06:34.

was dubbed we have a couple of Labour bloggers reverse. -- with us.

:06:34.:06:44.
:06:44.:06:48.

It is Liverpool, it is Labour. The task of Ed Miliband was to

:06:48.:06:53.

establish himself as a character with his movement. Who is this guy

:06:53.:07:03.
:07:03.:07:05.

Miller Band? I am not only Blair. - - Tony Blair. That line went down

:07:05.:07:12.

really well. He had a reasonably successful afternoon. Only David

:07:12.:07:17.

Cameron could believe that you make ordinary families work harder by

:07:17.:07:23.

making them poorer and you make the rich work harder by making them

:07:23.:07:32.

richer. It is the wrong priority. It is based on the wrong values.

:07:32.:07:40.

How dare they say we are all in it together? Of course if Ed Miliband

:07:40.:07:44.

is to establish a relationship with the people he will have to make

:07:44.:07:50.

friends with the media. We had this speech from Ivan Lewis.

:07:50.:07:53.

industry should consider whether people guilty of gross malpractice

:07:53.:07:59.

should be struck off. In other words, any journalist misbehaving

:07:59.:08:06.

him or herself could be banned. Oh dear! That is me to the knacker's

:08:06.:08:11.

yard. I would just speak to the police to make sure they are OK

:08:11.:08:21.

with that sentence. And now to the sport. Who is that portly fellow?

:08:21.:08:26.

He tackles pretty low in politics as well, they say. His speech was

:08:26.:08:32.

toying with the idea of an apology but a politician like Ed Balls was

:08:32.:08:37.

never going to find that easy. they so we make mistakes in

:08:37.:08:45.

government, they are right. A 75p pension rise was a mistake, so was

:08:45.:08:48.

the abolition of the 10 pence tax rate. We did not do enough to get

:08:48.:08:53.

employers to train the work falls. We should have adopted tougher

:08:53.:08:57.

controls on migration from Eastern Europe. We did not spend every

:08:57.:09:03.

pound of public money well. We did not regulate the banks toughly

:09:03.:09:06.

enough and stop the gross irresponsibility here in Britain

:09:06.:09:11.

and all around the world. If we do not pay off the deficit now it will

:09:11.:09:17.

be left to future generations. Lo and behold up one popped, a 16-

:09:17.:09:23.

year-old from Maidstone. The home I lived in since birth was

:09:23.:09:29.

repossessed. We had no money and savings. I owe my entire well-being

:09:29.:09:34.

to the welfare state. That welfare state is being ripped apart by a

:09:34.:09:41.

vicious and right wing led Tory government. We later learned he was

:09:42.:09:47.

not such a son of a proletariat. He had been to private school and his

:09:47.:09:52.

dad was a property developer. He is a face of tomorrow. Where are the

:09:52.:09:57.

faces of the past? No Tony Blair, no Peter Mandelson, no Gordon Brown,

:09:57.:10:02.

not even John Prescott. It is as though these security fences have

:10:02.:10:08.

been designed to keep New Labour out. Oh well! Manchester next and

:10:08.:10:16.

the Tories. See you there. Quentin Letts giving us his view. He makes

:10:16.:10:20.

a point that a lot of the names of faces that have been ubiquitous at

:10:20.:10:24.

Labour conferences since you were in short trousers were not further

:10:24.:10:34.
:10:34.:10:38.

share. There have been a lot of new ones. -- were not there. He made an

:10:38.:10:45.

impromptu address without notes during the week. Also Yvette Cooper.

:10:45.:10:54.

She has emerged, it Ed Miliband were to fall under a bus, she would

:10:54.:10:59.

come up head and shoulders as the next leader. I would have to agree

:10:59.:11:09.

on Yvette Cooper. Taking over from her husband? I think the burning

:11:09.:11:13.

question is, whether she once said and how much she wants it? If she

:11:13.:11:18.

wants it, it is hers. She was not in the mix last time but she would

:11:19.:11:25.

be next time. Who has had a bad week? Without question Ed Miliband.

:11:25.:11:32.

The last year he has successfully managed to remove the badge of Red

:11:32.:11:40.

Ed and then said, I am Red Ed now. Now we are going to have to see

:11:40.:11:46.

over the next few weeks him a tempting to cleanse his name.

:11:46.:11:54.

not think he came out as Red Ed, I think he came out as A blue ed. He

:11:54.:12:03.

has adopted a blue agenda. Every senior figure tells you something

:12:03.:12:08.

different. We are very confused. A Shadow Cabinet reshuffle looks to

:12:08.:12:13.

be around the corner. He has the power to have on board who he wants,

:12:13.:12:23.
:12:23.:12:25.

rather than he the MPs vote for. think we're going to see Chuka

:12:25.:12:32.

Umunna in the Shadow Cabinet. one of the up and coming... And may

:12:32.:12:38.

be some more women. I think there will need to be some rebalancing. I

:12:38.:12:44.

quite like Stella but at think it is a bit early. We have a present

:12:44.:12:50.

on the Daily Politics. We have some Tesco bourbon creams from hazel

:12:51.:12:56.

Blears. She said I hope these keep you going next week. You might need

:12:56.:13:01.

something to make you smile. Being generous, I am not taking them to

:13:01.:13:10.

the Tories, I'm going to share them here. Have one of these and one of

:13:10.:13:20.
:13:20.:13:22.

these. Which batch would you like? -- badge. Very well, excellent.

:13:22.:13:31.

Where are the biscuits for us? On their way. I am sending them down.

:13:31.:13:34.

Politicians here in Britain may be busy enjoying themselves at their

:13:34.:13:37.

respective conferences but out in the real world Europe is facing

:13:37.:13:39.

financial meltdown. In an interview in the Spectator magazine, the

:13:39.:13:42.

Foreign Secretary, William Hague, repeated his claim that the euro

:13:42.:13:45.

was like a burning building with no exits. In order to try to find a

:13:45.:13:48.

way out of the crisis, German Chancellor Angela Merkel has just

:13:48.:13:53.

the EU's main bailout fund called the European Financial Stability

:13:53.:13:57.

Facility. This was overhauled back in July and consists of a

:13:57.:14:00.

commitment to boost bail out guarantees to 440 billion euros,

:14:00.:14:03.

the hope being that it will be enough to calm the markets and help

:14:03.:14:10.

However, many commentators have argued that given the current

:14:10.:14:15.

climate much more will be needed in the long run. Also this week, the

:14:15.:14:17.

eurozone countries agreed a deal that would see private lenders

:14:17.:14:21.

write off 20% off their loans to Greece, although it is believed a

:14:21.:14:24.

plan to allow Greece to default on around 50% of its debt is on the

:14:24.:14:29.

cards. Yesterday the head of the European Commission Manuel Barroso

:14:29.:14:32.

warned that Europe was facing its greatest challenge but said he

:14:32.:14:38.

believed Greece would stay in the Eurozone. However, Nick Clegg will

:14:38.:14:40.

later today warn European governments that the EU would

:14:40.:14:43.

rupture if the eurozone countries make decisions without consulting

:14:43.:14:49.

governments outside the single currency. I am joined now from

:14:49.:14:52.

Strasbourg by the Conservative MEP, Daniel Hannan, and here in the

:14:52.:15:02.
:15:02.:15:02.

studio by Katinka Barysch of the Does this mean the end of the

:15:02.:15:11.

crisis for Germany, Katinka Barysch? Certainly not. And it does

:15:11.:15:15.

not mean the end of the euro crisis, either. The real debate is about

:15:15.:15:20.

what we're going to do next. It is about having a bigger bail-out fund.

:15:20.:15:24.

And it certainly is not the end of the political debate in Germany,

:15:24.:15:27.

how much Germany wants to make available to help its neighbours,

:15:27.:15:32.

what is Germany's new role in the European Union? It seems everyone

:15:32.:15:36.

sees Germany as the powerhouse of Europe, and that they have to lead

:15:36.:15:40.

the way, and there has been criticism that Angela Merkel has

:15:40.:15:46.

tracked her feet - how do you think she has handled the crisis? She has

:15:46.:15:50.

handled it in a very Angela Merkel kind of way. She has never been a

:15:50.:15:54.

leader, she has always been cautious. In the beginning, we

:15:54.:15:57.

liked her forehead. She was good at knocking heads together but she was

:15:57.:16:01.

never a leader. The Germans have very little post-war experience of

:16:01.:16:06.

leadership. The entire post-war period has been one of just neatly

:16:06.:16:13.

fitting into European integration and NATO. And all of a sudden they

:16:13.:16:17.

find themselves in this leadership situation, and it is slow, it is

:16:17.:16:23.

awkward, they're to slow to do this. They are trying to catch up. Is it

:16:23.:16:27.

right that the Germans should be the ones, bearing in mind they are

:16:27.:16:31.

doing better, economically, should they not be the one has to lead the

:16:31.:16:37.

bail-out? But they are paying the most, and they are trying to lead

:16:37.:16:40.

from the front. It is not as if they are not trying. They are not

:16:40.:16:43.

doing as well as the commentators and the markets would like them to

:16:43.:16:48.

do. But they are trying to do what is feasible for them, financially

:16:48.:16:52.

and politically. This vote today in the Bundestag is just one more step

:16:52.:17:02.
:17:02.:17:03.

in a much longer journey. Thank you for joining us, Daniel Hannan. What

:17:03.:17:13.
:17:13.:17:16.

do you think should happen now? do you think should happen now?

:17:16.:17:19.

Katinka Barysch just said, the crisis has already moved on. The

:17:19.:17:23.

talk now is of expanding the available resources to this almost

:17:23.:17:29.

incredible amount of two trillion Euros. And this is going to be done

:17:29.:17:33.

by borrowing. We are treating the debt crisis with a massive increase

:17:33.:17:40.

in debt. Two questions immediately a rise - first of all, who are

:17:40.:17:46.

guarantee an amount that large? The answer on paper is the ECB. But the

:17:46.:17:49.

European Central Bank has been buying up so much junk debt that it

:17:49.:17:54.

is almost a Bag bank already, by definition. So, the reality

:17:54.:17:59.

standing behind this new debt other taxpayers of Greece, Italy, Spain,

:17:59.:18:03.

Ireland, Portugal, in other words, that the tours are the same as the

:18:03.:18:10.

guarantors. Where are we going to get two truly Euros from? -- the

:18:11.:18:15.

debtors are the same as the guarantors. I suppose, what would

:18:15.:18:25.
:18:25.:18:31.

the alternative be, that's the question? Surely any alternative

:18:31.:18:35.

would be even worse to borrowing even at these high interest rates,

:18:35.:18:40.

because it would cost more in the long run? That's not correct. The

:18:40.:18:45.

metaphor you used is interesting. The way to prevent contagion is

:18:45.:18:48.

through quarantine. But the European Union is doing the

:18:48.:18:52.

opposite, taking the finances of perfectly healthy countries and

:18:52.:18:55.

degrading them by making them liable for the loans of other

:18:55.:18:59.

countries. The alternative is to let each country pursue its own

:18:59.:19:05.

monetary policy, determined by its own conditions. Clearly it is in

:19:05.:19:08.

the interest of these countries to be able to price their way back

:19:08.:19:13.

into the market. The only reason why this is not happening is

:19:13.:19:17.

because people are trying to save face, because they have got so much

:19:17.:19:20.

tied up politically in the euro project, and they are expecting the

:19:20.:19:25.

people to pay an extraordinary price for it. What do you say, that

:19:25.:19:28.

now is the time to draw the line, we should not be throwing good

:19:28.:19:35.

money after bad? That's a very interesting point. I just spent

:19:35.:19:39.

this morning with a Greek analyst and university professor, who made

:19:39.:19:44.

the point to me very clearly, that he and the majority of the Greek

:19:44.:19:48.

people do not actually believe that leaving the euro is a solution to

:19:48.:19:53.

their problems. 66% of the Greeks do not want to leave the euro. Then,

:19:53.:19:57.

they would have to massively default both on public and private

:19:57.:20:01.

debt. You cannot repay massive debts and devalue the currency at

:20:01.:20:07.

the same time. What about the other countries, do we care enough about

:20:07.:20:13.

what happens to Greece? Obviously, the Greek austerity programme now

:20:13.:20:17.

has become counter-productive, in the sense that it is straining the

:20:17.:20:20.

economy, you cannot squeeze any more tax money out of an economy

:20:20.:20:26.

that is shrinking for four years in a row. But what is right is that

:20:26.:20:29.

Greece and some other European countries have to implement the

:20:29.:20:34.

reforms, and the same applies to Germany in that respect. But these

:20:34.:20:39.

are long-term programmes. The big problem that we have at the moment

:20:39.:20:43.

is, how do we keep the euro together, so that we can implement

:20:43.:20:47.

the long-term plans? I do not believe for one second that

:20:47.:20:49.

splitting up the euro is the solution for the structural

:20:49.:20:57.

problems that we have. And nor does Nick Clegg, Daniel Hannan - he has

:20:57.:21:03.

said that we Shand shoulder to shoulder with the eurozone. He even

:21:03.:21:07.

went as far as to say that actually they should not be making

:21:07.:21:11.

agreements within the eurozone which do not include us outside. He

:21:11.:21:21.
:21:21.:21:21.

says we have to stick together... suspect that Nick Clegg, an old

:21:21.:21:24.

friend of mine, is auditioning for his next job as the British nominee

:21:24.:21:30.

to the European commission. You're not the first person to say that.

:21:30.:21:37.

prosperous and stable countries on our doorstep. The euro takes 40% of

:21:37.:21:40.

our exports, it is plainly in our interests to have other countries

:21:40.:21:44.

growing. That is not the same as keeping the euro going. When it

:21:44.:21:47.

becomes clear that the price of keeping the euro together is

:21:48.:21:51.

permanent deflation, poverty and immigration for the southern

:21:51.:21:54.

countries, and Permanent World countries for the northern

:21:54.:21:57.

countries, so that both lots are growing more slowly than they

:21:57.:22:01.

otherwise would, is not in our interests. They should not send us

:22:01.:22:05.

the bill for that, either. We have no interest in such a policy.

:22:05.:22:08.

briefly, what about this transaction tax that has been

:22:08.:22:17.

talked about, the Tobin tax? What is your view on that?

:22:17.:22:20.

transaction tax would raise something like 50 billion euros, of

:22:20.:22:24.

which something like 40 billion euros would be coming from London.

:22:24.:22:27.

In other words, we're being stuck with the bill to prop up the

:22:27.:22:37.
:22:37.:22:42.

currency which we declined to join. Both of you, thank you very much.

:22:42.:22:46.

It started last year in Manchester, and ended in Liverpool. David was

:22:47.:22:52.

fancied, but in the end, it was Ed, rebuilding the party after a

:22:52.:22:56.

disastrous election defeat. How did the new leader measure up, and how

:22:56.:23:00.

well is he suited to the job? We asked former Cabinet Minister Alan

:23:00.:23:10.
:23:10.:23:17.

# They seek him here, they seek him there.

:23:17.:23:21.

# He has got to buy the best, because he's a dedicated follower

:23:21.:23:27.

of fashion. Refashioning the Labour Party was

:23:27.:23:31.

never going to be easy for Ed Miliband - taking on the worst job,

:23:31.:23:34.

Leader of the Opposition, at the worst time, just after an election

:23:34.:23:38.

defeat, and in the worst possible circumstances, after beating his

:23:38.:23:44.

brother. Isn't the biggest favour that David Miliband can do to the

:23:44.:23:49.

Labour Party to end this psychodrama? This is no psychodrama.

:23:49.:23:54.

I came in on Saturday planning a slightly different week. I'm now

:23:54.:23:58.

thinking what I'm going to do instead. But it is measuring up to

:23:58.:24:02.

be a pretty good year for Labour. Party membership is increasing, we

:24:02.:24:07.

are ahead in the polls, we had some notable successes in the local

:24:07.:24:17.
:24:17.:24:19.

elections, and so far, we have won # Oh, yes he is. OK, so, we were

:24:20.:24:24.

stitched up in Scotland, and unfortunately for Ed, and for me,

:24:24.:24:28.

the alternative vote did not suit the public. But despite the party

:24:28.:24:32.

being split on the referendum, it did not damage the leader. In other

:24:32.:24:38.

areas, Ed has bravely decided to do what he thinks is right. For

:24:38.:24:43.

example, scrapping Shadow Cabinet elections, and making it clear that

:24:43.:24:47.

he wants to change the rules for electing the party leader. In

:24:47.:24:52.

respect of policy, Ed probably made life difficult for himself by

:24:52.:24:55.

supporting the graduate tax and a blank sheet of paper probably

:24:55.:25:02.

wasn't the best phrase to use. But this early in any parliament, no

:25:02.:25:06.

opposition leader wants to pick policies off the peg, and Ed isn't

:25:06.:25:11.

your typical party leader, forever chasing headlines. But the last 12

:25:11.:25:18.

months have really been all about the cuts. Ed has been very clear

:25:18.:25:21.

that we have to cut out koitt according to our cloth. But

:25:21.:25:31.

sometimes that message has been lost. Our job is to fight and

:25:31.:25:37.

preserve the things that we value... In parliament, aide is up against a

:25:37.:25:43.

consummate performer, in David Cameron. Today, we learn that the

:25:43.:25:45.

Foreign Secretary describes his gang as the children of Thatcher.

:25:45.:25:50.

would rather be a child of Thatcher than a son of Brown. Whilst he has

:25:50.:25:56.

taken some hits, he has also had some notable successes. He was

:25:56.:25:59.

statesmanlike on Libya, he was strong on issues like cancer

:25:59.:26:05.

sufferers, DNA, and of course, the hacking scandal, and David

:26:05.:26:08.

Cameron's decision to hire Andy Coulson. He has got to accept that

:26:08.:26:15.

he made a catastrophic error of judgment by bringing Andy Coulson

:26:15.:26:21.

into the heart of his Downing Street machine. On reflection, I

:26:21.:26:25.

think aide has had a good year. On personal issues, he has got a new

:26:25.:26:33.

wife, a new baby, a different nose, and a brother less strange than he

:26:33.:26:37.

seem to be a year ago. I think Ed Miliband has done extremely well,

:26:37.:26:42.

and I think he will grow in confidence and in stature as his

:26:42.:26:52.
:26:52.:26:53.

That was Alan Johnson, part of the old guard, really. I'm now joined

:26:54.:26:56.

by three bright young things - at least that's what it says on the

:26:57.:27:03.

script. I'm talking about Gloria De Piero, John Woodcock and Lisa Nandy.

:27:03.:27:08.

You all got elected last year for the first time. Let's see what you

:27:08.:27:12.

make of it. His Ed Miliband right not to say that New Labour has one

:27:12.:27:18.

out of steam, we need to build something new? What I'm really

:27:18.:27:22.

pleased about his hearing Ed Miliband talk about things which

:27:22.:27:27.

people want to talk to me about on the doorstep. So, New Labour, and

:27:27.:27:31.

current Labour, whatever you want to call it, it is about being on

:27:31.:27:35.

the side of the decent, hard- working majority of people. Ed has

:27:35.:27:39.

said this week, the people at the top, some of those people have been

:27:39.:27:42.

top, some of those people have been scoring people. But also, people

:27:42.:27:46.

say to me, that guy around the corner, I'm hurting at the moment,

:27:46.:27:50.

but he's taking benefits, and he does not seem to want to work. It

:27:50.:27:54.

is about being on the side of the majority. You would have to

:27:54.:27:57.

conclude that New Labour did not do any of that, which is why you're

:27:58.:28:00.

any of that, which is why you're having to start again. The New

:28:00.:28:05.

Labour project, as it was, led by Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, was

:28:05.:28:10.

unquestionably the right thing for its time. And the level of

:28:10.:28:13.

electoral success which it brought, and the changes it brought to

:28:13.:28:18.

Britain, were hugely significant. But we are now in 2011. Ed was

:28:18.:28:22.

right to say that I'm policy programme has got to move on, and

:28:22.:28:26.

we have got to read direct the challenges that we know that we

:28:26.:28:32.

need to face, so that in 2015, or whenever the election is, we're

:28:32.:28:37.

putting forward policies which matter to the future of the country.

:28:37.:28:42.

A from understand that New Labour had one out of steam, all political

:28:42.:28:45.

projects run out of steam, Thatcherism ran out of steam, the

:28:45.:28:48.

collective consensus after the Second World War over and out of

:28:48.:28:52.

steam. But given that New Labour was electorally very successful for

:28:52.:28:56.

you, and some former ministers would say, successful for the

:28:56.:29:03.

country, I do not understand why you want to draw a line under it.

:29:03.:29:07.

Because we saw an amazing amount of investment into some of the poorest

:29:07.:29:11.

communities in this country. I saw some of that on the front line,

:29:11.:29:15.

working with children in my previous job. But we also saw an

:29:15.:29:18.

alarming growth in inequality. What Ed was saying on Wednesday was that

:29:18.:29:22.

we did not do enough to create a level playing field, so that those

:29:22.:29:25.

people who are genuinely trying to do the right thing are getting the

:29:25.:29:28.

help that they need from the government. This government is not

:29:28.:29:32.

doing that. It is actively going out and destroying people's lives

:29:32.:29:36.

through the decisions that they are taking. Ed was saying, we urgently

:29:36.:29:46.
:29:46.:29:52.

You constantly changing and update. You start a new revolution. He is

:29:52.:29:57.

so that it is going to be a new revolution. The basic principle of

:29:57.:30:02.

New Labour was that we look out that the country are not into

:30:02.:30:06.

ourselves. We understand the challengers. That is at the heart

:30:07.:30:11.

of what the run to do under the leadership of Ed Miliband. He is

:30:11.:30:17.

not budging. He has said that clearly. Do not think it is a moved

:30:17.:30:27.
:30:27.:30:29.

to the left? -- do you not? Politicians have said it is a move

:30:29.:30:35.

to the left. Ed Miliband said he is not budging from the centre ground.

:30:35.:30:41.

I think it is a move to where people are. When I knock on doors

:30:41.:30:48.

around Wigan Dom they talk to you about producer and editor companies.

:30:48.:30:52.

They say they're not getting support from the Government or a

:30:52.:31:00.

decent deal from the banks. It is too easy for people to be undercut.

:31:00.:31:06.

They want a better deal and a leather -- level playing-field.

:31:06.:31:10.

is now saying that immigration did undercut people's wages but he is

:31:10.:31:15.

not going to do anything about it. He is saying that he is on the side

:31:15.:31:21.

of strivers and he does not want people to be doing nothing if they

:31:21.:31:27.

can work. You are never going to out to the coalition on welfare

:31:27.:31:31.

reform. We have to be really tough on setting the right conditions

:31:31.:31:37.

which help and cajole people off benefit and into work. We did make

:31:37.:31:42.

very significant progress in government. They need to do much

:31:42.:31:47.

more. What was the significant progress? In 90 until seven you

:31:47.:31:54.

started with 5 million people of working age out of work. -- 1997.

:31:55.:32:00.

The financial crisis that hit come up which knocked this economy and

:32:00.:32:04.

economies across the world, is going to take a very significant

:32:04.:32:12.

effort to recover from. It showed that the financial industry,

:32:12.:32:17.

unchecked, was not operating in the long-term interests of the British

:32:17.:32:23.

economy. We have been absolutely clear we should have done more. The

:32:23.:32:28.

Conservatives were arguing for us to regulate less. The lesson from

:32:28.:32:31.

that is that governments should not be neutral on the kind of economy

:32:32.:32:37.

we want to build and the kind of growth we want to support in our

:32:38.:32:47.

communities. A quick word from you. The hardest point in politics is to

:32:47.:32:55.

workout where Peter macro is. not sure where that is. We do not

:32:55.:33:05.
:33:05.:33:09.

have much time. We are still in Liverpool. There is no script, this

:33:09.:33:16.

is all and lip. They're cheering a Lib Dem councillor who has joined

:33:16.:33:23.

Labour. Tell us why you go on to Thursday. He ate his Giles. We have

:33:23.:33:28.

done policy, we have done leadership. -- here is Giles was

:33:28.:33:32.

dug should the leader's speech be the last event of conference? Made

:33:32.:33:37.

it or leave it. The leader's speech is the big thing and the way

:33:37.:33:42.

everyone goes. They go home and go, what was that about the game? What

:33:42.:33:48.

we take to our party? What to be tell on the doorstep. What sound

:33:48.:33:55.

bites to ride take? I think it helps. Which you leave it or move

:33:55.:34:05.
:34:05.:34:18.

I think there is a big build up to the leader's speech. You need time

:34:18.:34:24.

to absorb what has been said and discuss it. I think it would be

:34:24.:34:32.

better at the end for those attending conference. Ed Miliband,

:34:33.:34:36.

today's Daily Politics made box is, should you move your speech to the

:34:36.:34:45.

last event of conference? Send them home with basing. I am happy it is

:34:45.:34:51.

out of the way. We have two dozen members of the public coming to

:34:51.:35:01.
:35:01.:35:02.

talk to us. You can relax a bit. -- 2000. It is not just about the

:35:02.:35:08.

leader telling us what he thinks it is about policy. The party leader

:35:08.:35:17.

can listen as well as speak. speech cliffs every ruddy up. --

:35:17.:35:22.

lifts everybody up. You should end on a big high note. That is a

:35:22.:35:26.

speech from the leader. We are not getting quite so many people

:35:26.:35:30.

involved. Not because they do not like the question that because they

:35:30.:35:38.

are not so many around. That lets you know why maybe move it is

:35:38.:35:42.

winning. So, the last day of the conference, but there is a clear

:35:42.:35:49.

message coming from the managers of the party with our mood box today.

:35:49.:35:56.

They would move the leader's speech to the last day. That was Giles.

:35:56.:36:01.

They are giving another cheer to the Lib Dem who has joined Labour.

:36:01.:36:05.

Let's deal with the big issues of our time. Should the leader's

:36:05.:36:15.

speech be on the last day? I would not mind considering it. There

:36:15.:36:21.

probably is an argument for looking after it. It is worth thinking

:36:21.:36:25.

about. I am not sure the fever- pitch excitement from journalists

:36:25.:36:33.

would build up all week if we let it go on a Tuesday. What do you

:36:33.:36:40.

think? I would move it. That speech injects a sense of energy in the

:36:41.:36:44.

conference. It is a chance to respond to what he has been told

:36:44.:36:54.
:36:54.:36:55.

throughout the week. Having members of the public here has been a great

:36:55.:36:59.

change. Ed Miliband, did he performed better in the question

:36:59.:37:04.

and answers session and he did in his speech? I found him engaging in

:37:04.:37:11.

both. I was really moved by the speech. Which one? In terms of the

:37:11.:37:19.

way the media has written it up... Yesterday was more successful but I

:37:19.:37:26.

thought it was a good speech. brilliant in the way he is engaging

:37:26.:37:32.

with the public. He is one of those rare politicians who listens to

:37:32.:37:37.

people. He has asked me to do a Daily Politics Q&A special with a

:37:37.:37:45.

live audience. We are considering it. High point of the week?

:37:45.:37:51.

speech. Low point? The couple are people who booed Tony Blair. High

:37:52.:37:59.

point? Yvette Cooper putting across The Record we have had in

:37:59.:38:05.

government. Low-point? We have got to show to the public, looking at

:38:05.:38:10.

this, that the most successful leader we have ever had is not

:38:10.:38:16.

something that we should be going. The Tony Blair think the stock

:38:16.:38:24.

higher point? Inspirational head teacher introducing Andy Burnham

:38:24.:38:32.

yesterday. Low-point? No low-point. Love it. Your leader could not name

:38:32.:38:35.

the candidates for the Labour these should contest in Scotland. Can

:38:35.:38:45.
:38:45.:38:51.

you? Ken, Joanne and Tom. There we go. Can you name the three of them?

:38:51.:38:58.

What I say is they have is Tom Harris, there is Duran Lamont and a

:38:58.:39:07.

third candidate. -- Duran. Ken Macintosh is the front runner. He

:39:07.:39:12.

will be an excellent candidate. guess when you get it wrong it is

:39:12.:39:19.

best to admit it, isn't it? Miliband is a human being. Have you

:39:19.:39:26.

ever forgot and a name? I have not, Georgina! So, you enjoyed the

:39:26.:39:36.
:39:36.:39:38.

conference anyway? Yes. What a great city Liverpool is! The Labour

:39:38.:39:43.

government has transformed the docks. Have you ever answered the

:39:43.:39:46.

question and not tried to make a party political point? When your

:39:46.:39:51.

mum says come up with two white meat or fish for dinner? Do you say,

:39:51.:40:01.

I will have meet because under Labour beach house got bigger? --

:40:01.:40:05.

the cows. Harriet Harman is just about to start speaking. We will

:40:05.:40:15.
:40:15.:40:19.

give you some highlights before we go off air in 20 minutes. Back to

:40:19.:40:26.

London. I had two people with me who sneaked out early. Welcome to

:40:26.:40:33.

both of you. Can I start with you? You work with Tony Blair. The cheer

:40:33.:40:40.

went up went Ed Miliband said, I am not only Blair. How did you feel?

:40:40.:40:46.

It disgusted me. -- Tony Blair. Ed Miliband should have said, whatever

:40:46.:40:51.

you think about Tony Blair and the Iraq will, he won more elections

:40:51.:40:59.

than any Labour leader in history. Afterwards, a lot of people... I

:40:59.:41:03.

think at the time people did not know what to do. How could you

:41:03.:41:10.

respond? It was a badly phrased speech. It was. He paused as if

:41:10.:41:15.

something should have happened. Miliband was mortified by it

:41:15.:41:21.

afterwards. He was, absolutely. He went to say, I am not only Blair, I

:41:21.:41:28.

am not Gordon-Brown, I am my own man. -- Tony Blair. There has been

:41:28.:41:34.

a lot of talk about the shift to the left. What were you left with?

:41:34.:41:40.

I was left with a sense of frustration. Talking about

:41:40.:41:45.

responsibility. It is the right questions to ask. The credibility

:41:45.:41:49.

is not there. What he needed to in his speech was get his fiscal

:41:49.:41:55.

credibility back. He said he would not have done every single cup the

:41:55.:42:01.

Government did. It makes him look like a weak leader. The other big

:42:01.:42:06.

problem is a lot of the other suggestions, the stuff about good

:42:06.:42:09.

businesses and bad businesses, it reminds me of the times when they

:42:09.:42:16.

were in opposition. It is not taking them anywhere. Tuition fees

:42:16.:42:21.

and a graduate tax... It looks like, or they would do is spend lots of

:42:21.:42:26.

money and run up a lot of debts again. In terms of what Ed Miliband

:42:26.:42:34.

had to do, here you raise the issue of the predator issues, it has been

:42:34.:42:40.

talked about extensively. Maybe the mood music was, that people did not

:42:40.:42:46.

think it was the greater speech ever. You talk about the squeezed

:42:46.:42:50.

middle, some of the concepts were there. The most interesting

:42:50.:42:56.

response to that speech was from the Daily Mail. It said the speech

:42:56.:43:01.

touched a chord with many ordinary Britons. That is what he was aiming

:43:01.:43:08.

to do - raised, in a sense... In my view, the middle classes are doing

:43:08.:43:13.

really badly at the moment. They have no political party to express

:43:13.:43:18.

what they want. The coalition are going to take away child benefit

:43:18.:43:25.

from double and a couples. Ed Miliband is Beijing himself towards

:43:25.:43:35.

being the party of the organised working class and the angry middle

:43:35.:43:37.

classes. That is a fairly positive note. In terms of, we have got

:43:37.:43:42.

another three years, there is a long time to go, isn't there? Quite

:43:42.:43:49.

a long time to go to stage yourself to that point. Now we know there is

:43:49.:43:55.

a fixed Parliament. He has some problems. People do not think he is

:43:55.:44:00.

a Prime Minister character. People cannot see him in the job. People

:44:00.:44:05.

are cynical about politics. The problem with his speech was, you

:44:05.:44:09.

knew he was not going to be able to do a lot of the things he was

:44:10.:44:14.

promising so, in that sense, he was making the problem worse. He has

:44:14.:44:19.

said he wants to get energy bills down. People really care about that.

:44:19.:44:24.

Then he says, because of climate change energy bills will have to go

:44:24.:44:31.

up. It is kind of not credible. That reinforces the worst fears of

:44:31.:44:36.

people about politicians. It does not make him look like a leader.

:44:36.:44:40.

What you think the state of the Labour Party years at the moment?

:44:40.:44:44.

It has clear direction. The Shadow Cabinet have to fill out the

:44:44.:44:49.

details of that. The Labour Party is waking for a break through.

:44:49.:44:55.

Since the coalition, Labour has gone up to 39% in the polls. It

:44:55.:45:00.

needs to go up over 40%. Ed Miliband needs to make a connection

:45:00.:45:06.

with the public. That has been said with some of the addresses about

:45:07.:45:16.
:45:17.:45:18.

the squeezed middle. Thank you both In a moment we will be speaking to

:45:18.:45:26.

the Shadow Communities Secretary, schadenfreude. But first, let's see

:45:26.:45:29.

what Harriet Harman has been saying to the party faithful before they

:45:29.:45:35.

leave the conference. Our thoughts are with them and

:45:35.:45:42.

their families. We have heard this week about the process of renewal

:45:42.:45:46.

under way in Scottish Labour, and I would like to pay tribute to Iain

:45:46.:45:51.

Gray. His passionate speech at this conference shows he is the Best

:45:51.:45:59.

First Minister Scotland never had. APPLAUSE This week we have had a

:45:59.:46:04.

sharp focus on our campaign for the Greater London assembly and for

:46:04.:46:07.

Mayor of London. What does Tory Boris Johnson stand

:46:07.:46:12.

for? Higher fares for Londoners, lower tax for bankers. Let's face

:46:12.:46:17.

it, Boris is in it for himself, Labour's Ken Livingstone is in it

:46:17.:46:27.
:46:27.:46:35.

for London. And we say, yes, we Ken. The spirit and enthusiasm of labour

:46:35.:46:38.

has run throughout this conference. We go forward with the new

:46:38.:46:42.

supporters' Network, a more powerful role for local councillors,

:46:42.:46:47.

the historic decision, a first for any political party in this country,

:46:47.:46:51.

to always have a woman in the leadership team, the brilliant

:46:51.:46:57.

innovation of Jim Murphy, to have Labour friends of the forces, and a

:46:57.:47:01.

stronger voice for young people in our party. And we have heard many

:47:01.:47:07.

of those voices this week. Many of them have been at our conference

:47:07.:47:10.

for the first time, some as young as 16, speaking with such

:47:10.:47:16.

conviction. With the Tory-Lib Dem attack on the Future Jobs Fund, on

:47:17.:47:21.

EMA, on tuition fees, the Government have hit the prospects

:47:21.:47:26.

for young people, but young people are hitting back. We have seen here,

:47:26.:47:36.
:47:36.:47:43.

this week, the dynamic, a new It would like to say a huge thank

:47:43.:47:47.

you to Ray Collins, our very own blond bombshell. He stepped into

:47:48.:47:51.

the role of general secretary at a really difficult time. He stepped

:47:52.:48:01.
:48:02.:48:02.

up to the plate, with tremendous passion for the party. Ray. He has

:48:02.:48:12.
:48:12.:48:12.

built a firm foundation for the future. I would like to give a big

:48:12.:48:16.

thank you to everyone who has worked so hard to make everything

:48:16.:48:20.

this week go like clockwork - the party staff and volunteers, the

:48:20.:48:24.

porters and the stewards, our own Red Army. Thank you very much

:48:24.:48:34.
:48:34.:48:38.

This week has been a turning point. Aide has shown his bold and

:48:38.:48:41.

optimistic vision of the future. We have challenge the unspoken

:48:41.:48:45.

orthodoxies which have governed Britain for too long, and we have

:48:45.:48:49.

we founded on party, so that we can be a force which changes people's

:48:49.:48:59.
:48:59.:49:12.

Harriet Harman bringing the conference to an end. Not quite the

:49:12.:49:20.

end yet, because there will be a bit of music. While we watch these

:49:20.:49:25.

pictures, we have got filmic instant in here with us. Have you

:49:25.:49:30.

enjoyed the conference? Yes, it has been great. We have done a lot to

:49:30.:49:33.

encourage people for standing for next year's local elections. It has

:49:33.:49:38.

been a good conference. Reading the comments about this so-called

:49:38.:49:42.

Shadow Cabinet reshuffle, I cannot work out whether you're going to be

:49:42.:49:49.

fired or promoted. I really do not know. What is your instinct? You're

:49:49.:49:54.

so busy, you do not actually see much of the news. I just try to do

:49:54.:50:01.

the best job I can, Andrew. I have very much enjoyed doing my brief on

:50:01.:50:06.

this. It has given me the opportunity to think about how we

:50:06.:50:15.

reconnect with our local government base. They're singing the Red Flag,

:50:15.:50:19.

an old Labour tradition, which I think Mr Blair would have liked to

:50:19.:50:29.
:50:29.:50:29.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 59 seconds

:50:29.:51:28.

have got rid of, if he was still # And did those feet, in ancient

:51:28.:51:32.

time. # Walk upon England's mountains

:51:32.:51:42.
:51:42.:51:47.

# And was the Holy Lamb of God. # On England's pleasant pastures

:51:47.:51:57.
:51:57.:52:01.

seen. # And did the countenance divine

:52:01.:52:11.
:52:11.:52:38.

shine for upon our clouded hills. # Bring me my bow of burning fire.

:52:38.:52:48.
:52:48.:52:51.

The Labour conference coming to an end with the traditional singing of

:52:51.:52:55.

Jerusalem, after A&E at the Red Flag. Of course, they have to hand

:52:55.:53:00.

out the words to the Red Flag these days. Just in case, people are a

:53:00.:53:05.

bit tired at the end of the week. Many people think Jerusalem should

:53:05.:53:14.

be England's national anthem, not Britain's. I suppose we're

:53:14.:53:17.

expecting a Shadow Cabinet reshuffle, because for the first

:53:17.:53:22.

time, the Labour leader has the power to choose his or her own

:53:22.:53:27.

Shadow Cabinet. Exactly. I think that has been an important

:53:27.:53:30.

transition in the last year. If you look back at what has been

:53:30.:53:35.

significant for Ed, that is up there. He made the decision that

:53:35.:53:38.

that was what he wanted to do, and brought the party with him. It

:53:38.:53:43.

helps him define himself, and what sort of team he wants. Are you

:53:43.:53:46.

comfortable with the direction of the party, in the sense that it is

:53:46.:53:51.

not saying, New Labour has run out of steam, it is time to inject new

:53:51.:53:56.

life for a new era, but saying, New Labour is over, and we're going to

:53:56.:54:00.

start something new? I'm not sure it is saying that. I just think

:54:01.:54:05.

about what it meant to me, when I got involved and the party. For me,

:54:05.:54:10.

it was always about the Labour Party getting itself to a place

:54:10.:54:14.

where it could reflect modern aspects of our lives, but still

:54:14.:54:18.

holding on to the principles which we built our party on. I don't

:54:18.:54:22.

think that has changed. But we have to move on. The problem was that

:54:22.:54:26.

New Labour was so associated with two individuals, and we cannot

:54:26.:54:31.

allow that to capture us for the rest of time. It is about moving

:54:31.:54:37.

forward, but dealing with the challenges of today and tomorrow.

:54:38.:54:41.

Are you not open to the criticism of your opponents that it

:54:41.:54:46.

represents a clear move to the left? Mr Miliband does not talk

:54:46.:54:50.

about the market economy any more. He talks about the centre, but he

:54:50.:54:55.

implies that the centre has moved left, to him. I don't think it is

:54:55.:54:59.

about moving to the left. I look at Yvette Cooper's speech on law and

:54:59.:55:04.

order. We are defending things like DNA records, CCTV, police numbers.

:55:04.:55:07.

I have talked about changing the way in which we allocate social

:55:07.:55:12.

housing, to make sure that working people on low incomes get a shot.

:55:12.:55:16.

Those incomes have been supported by Ed. But there are some

:55:16.:55:20.

challenges which we have to face up to. The financial system, we did

:55:20.:55:24.

not regulate it well enough. And there have been concerns over the

:55:24.:55:28.

past few years about parts of business, and how it operates.

:55:28.:55:31.

There are some good examples of businesses which develop their work

:55:31.:55:36.

force and work with communities. There are others, for example,

:55:36.:55:39.

businesses which go into liquidation, having not paid their

:55:39.:55:43.

business rates, leaving their staff without any wages, and then they

:55:43.:55:46.

can just start up again under another name. It is talking about

:55:46.:55:52.

the bad practices, but in doing that, we are not anti-wealth or

:55:52.:55:56.

anti-enterprise. Yvette Cooper was here in this very seat yesterday,

:55:56.:56:01.

and I put it to her that the riots had happened under a Conservative

:56:01.:56:09.

coalition, but the rioters, most of them were Labour's children. You're

:56:09.:56:12.

the shadow Communities Secretary, where were you during the riots?

:56:12.:56:17.

was away, but when I came back, I went to visit Lewisham, Croydon and

:56:17.:56:25.

Birmingham, to talk to people. Should you have had a higher

:56:25.:56:31.

profile? I think Ed wanted Yvette Cooper to handle it because it was

:56:31.:56:35.

very much a policing issue in the first instance. The follow-up was

:56:36.:56:41.

how the councils responded. But just to say something about your

:56:41.:56:46.

point about, these are our children, I think in terms of some of these

:56:46.:56:50.

cases, the rot set in long before that. We did not have riots in

:56:50.:56:54.

Doncaster, but we are still suffering from the loss of coal

:56:54.:56:59.

mining, and families with unemployment across the generations.

:56:59.:57:03.

And there are issues around families in London and elsewhere

:57:03.:57:07.

where that is the case. But it does not excuse the fact, when I went to

:57:08.:57:11.

Croydon, I was being told this was not the young people of Croydon, it

:57:11.:57:15.

was organised criminals taking advantage of the situation. Thank

:57:15.:57:19.

you very much. We have got a lot of work to do, or you have got a lot

:57:19.:57:27.

of work to do, to get this across to the country. Of course, we earns

:57:27.:57:31.

them seats in May, but I think the direction is good. We have just got

:57:31.:57:36.

to make sure that the way we communicate it, and the way we talk

:57:36.:57:38.

about practical policies going forward, strikes a nerve with the

:57:38.:57:47.

public. That's it from our live coverage of the Labour Party

:57:47.:57:53.

conference of 2011 AD. I will say that again, AD. Ed Miliband has

:57:53.:57:56.

signalled a break with the past, but he has yet to colour in the

:57:56.:58:04.

future. Labour leaves Liverpool now, facing a long and winding road

:58:05.:58:09.

ahead. We leave Liverpool, too. But not before thanking the city and

:58:10.:58:13.

its people for their magnificent Conference Centre, and the warmth

:58:13.:58:17.

and the quality of their hospitality. We look forward to the

:58:17.:58:22.

next time. Our coverage does not finish here. Giles is back tonight,

:58:22.:58:28.

with the usual round-up programme, on BBC Two. He's doing that because

:58:28.:58:30.

on BBC Two. He's doing that because I'm over on BBC One this week, with

:58:30.:58:40.
:58:40.:58:44.

Michael Portillo, Alan Johnson, and many mam Alvin Hall, and the legend

:58:44.:58:50.