Browse content similar to 02/11/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning folks. This is the Daily Politics. The Government has made | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
an improved, possibly last, offer to union leaders on its proposed | :00:26. | :00:33. | |
changes to public sector pensions. to be announced, but they are | :00:33. | :00:39. | |
largely technical. We'll bring them to you as soon as we can. Union | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
leaders are discussing the proposals right now. They're angry | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
about plans to raise workers' contributions and the pension age. | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
We'll be asking, will the latest offer be enough to avert another | :00:48. | :00:58. | |
strike planned for later this month? | :00:58. | :01:05. | |
Carry on camping - we take the mood box to St Paul's. The reason for | :01:05. | :01:11. | |
this demonstration is why I came to London for my holiday. You came | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
here on holiday because of this? Yes. The Greek Government is | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
teetering on the brink of collapse, but we'll be talking to one former | :01:18. | :01:21. | |
union chief who believes Britain should still think about signing up | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
to the euro. And Cheggers will be here putting | :01:25. | :01:34. | |
the Government's new happiness test to the test. | :01:34. | :01:37. | |
All that and more, including Prime Minister's Questions, coming up in | :01:37. | :01:46. | |
the next 90 minutes. And with us for the duration we have the Mr | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
Happy and the Mr Grumpy of political thought, International | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
Development Minister, Alan Duncan, and Shadow Leader of the Commons, | :01:51. | :02:01. | |
:02:01. | :02:02. | ||
Hilary Benn. I really have no idea which is which. I just read the | :02:02. | :02:09. | |
autocue and get paid a modest amount for doing it. Welcome. | :02:09. | :02:13. | |
you. Now, let's turn our attention again to events at St Paul's, where | :02:14. | :02:16. | |
it appears protesters will not be moving in the forseeable future. | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
Today the Archbishop of Canterbury waded in on the debate, backing | :02:19. | :02:27. | |
calls for a new tax on financial transactions. I doesn't know he was | :02:27. | :02:32. | |
an expert in international finance. I should consult him more on | :02:32. | :02:38. | |
religious matters. He said it would advance the protesters' moral | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
agenda. So should they stay or should they go? We sent Adam down | :02:42. | :02:51. | |
:02:52. | :02:52. | ||
with the mood box. We've brought the balls to St Paul's. Do people | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
here think it's time for the protesters to go home or should | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
they carry on protesting? I think we'll hear from a few protesters as | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
well. Are awe visitor or a protester? A protesting visitor. | :03:04. | :03:10. | |
Why are you going to carry on? Because this corrupt system of | :03:10. | :03:15. | |
banking has cast a blight on the whole world. I'm a visiting | :03:15. | :03:21. | |
protester. Does a bunch of tents make much of a difference? It does | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
when they are on a global scale, with 2,300 tented cities like this | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
one around the world. Does this should not have a big impact on | :03:31. | :03:37. | |
your job or your study? No, I've gone to all my lectures and | :03:37. | :03:43. | |
seminars as usual. Grab a ball... would rather grab a man. Especially | :03:43. | :03:49. | |
you, I fancy you, dear. Why is that? I've come back to my country | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
after 40 years and I'm horrified that England has sunk into the | :03:53. | :03:58. | |
sewer. In if this is a peaceful demonstration, you should go in | :03:58. | :04:05. | |
peace. How long are you going to carry on for? I have to be back in | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
Cornwall in January. I used to be a trader, so I know the greed and | :04:10. | :04:20. | |
:04:20. | :04:24. | ||
avarice and envy that runs the City. The reason for this demonstration | :04:24. | :04:30. | |
is why I came to London for my holiday. You actually came here on | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
holiday because of this? Yes, I wanted to see it. I can't go to New | :04:34. | :04:40. | |
York to see the protesters on Wall Street, because I come from Belgium, | :04:40. | :04:47. | |
because it is too expensive. This is an extra holiday treat. Thank | :04:47. | :04:54. | |
you! Is this racist? How can it be racist? Are awe racist? Not to my | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
knowledge. Do you work for a racist organisation? No. Who did you work | :04:59. | :05:05. | |
for? The BBC. The BBC! Hardly anyone is saying it is time to go | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
home. That may be a product of the fact that a lot of people who feel | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
this don't feel comfortable showing this in this environment. Put a | :05:14. | :05:19. | |
ball in. I can't. It is not my job. So I went round to the other side | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
of the Cathedral, where views were definitely more mixed. Ultimately | :05:24. | :05:31. | |
this is a place of worship. I think they have made their point, around | :05:31. | :05:40. | |
the world. The genuine protesters are great, but according to the | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
paper and various things, and also I go past it every day at the | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
moment, there seem to be more and more unsavoury elements there and | :05:47. | :05:54. | |
they are spoiling the protest. Thank you very much. I never | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
understood why Guy Fawkes was Guy Fawkes. It had nothing to do with | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
capitalism. How do you think this is going to end? Hopefully they'll | :06:03. | :06:08. | |
get burnt and moved on! Well, after equal time spent in two locations | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
let's see the final result. It looks like a majority are still | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
supporting the protest carrying on. You could say that's for whom the | :06:16. | :06:24. | |
ball tolls. He's paid by the cliche. Adam there | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
proving his balls around St Paul's. Well, we're joined now by Ian | :06:27. | :06:32. | |
Chamberlain who's hot-footed it from the protest at St Paul's. | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
Welcome. I know the group there doesn't necessarily have a united | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
front on what you want to achieve, but can we get a flavour of what | :06:40. | :06:45. | |
you stand for? For example, do you want to nationalise the banks? | :06:45. | :06:51. | |
think we are united by growing concern at the increasing economic | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
inequality. That bit I get. I understand that. I'm trying to work | :06:54. | :06:59. | |
out what you would like to do about it. I've heard a lot of people are | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
worried about inequality, I understand that, and it's been made | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
worse in recent years. I'm trying to work out how you would address | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
it as opposed to other groups. Would you nationalise the banks? | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
Would you take them into state control? I think it is important to | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
explain what's happening at St Paul's. This isn't about a group of | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
people with predetermined ideas about how to improve the economic | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
crisis. It's a space where people with articulate alternatives to the | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
austerity of the Government. It is a democratic process. We are | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
releasing statements. We started off with an initial statement which | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
set out our basic values and with ongoing debate and discussion we | :07:39. | :07:45. | |
want to get to a stage where we can start forming policy. So, you talk | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
about inequality, would you for example have a much higher tax on | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
those who earn big salaries than the current top rate of 50 %? | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
things that I can talk about, because they have been discussed at | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
the camp, because I'm not here to represent myself but to capture the | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
spirit of what's going on at the camp. People are talking about | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
things like the Tobin tax and better regulation of the banks. | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
Everybody is talking about better regulation of the banks. They are, | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
but we've always realised that there are a lot of good ideas out | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
there already but there isn't the political imp tulings us to | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
implement them. We believe that -- impetus to implement them. In the | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
end, I've lived through many movements. I remember the movement | :08:27. | :08:34. | |
of the '60s. In the end that's all they were - movements. I'm just | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
trying to work out what you, not as a firm manifesto, I understand | :08:37. | :08:42. | |
that's not the purpose, but just as a general mood, the kind of changes | :08:42. | :08:48. | |
that you would like to see. So, what would you do, if inequality is | :08:48. | :08:53. | |
your major concern, what would your single biggest step be to narrow | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
that inequality? Well, again I say, if you look at the civil rights | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
movement in America, it was about people meeting in public spaces, in | :09:01. | :09:07. | |
churches and things, and discussing, they had obviously aims in common. | :09:07. | :09:14. | |
And out of that process... civil rights movement had a clear | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
agenda, and that agenda was equality between black and white, | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
it was to end seg gaigs in the South, it was to pass major civil | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
rights Acts through Congress and to make sure that voter Reg station | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
was fair. They were all specific policies. That's what I'm trying to | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
do fu. Don't want to go down this road I will stop now. The civil | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
rights movement didn't last two weeks. We've only been there a | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
short time. We see this as the beginning of a movement. We see | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
this going on not necessarily in term of the occupation but as a | :09:49. | :09:54. | |
movement going on many years, developing and articulating | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
policies. After two weeks I don't think we can be expected to have a | :09:58. | :10:06. | |
full manifesto of things for you. lot of people have been there for | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
agitation and agitprop before. Does it concern you that in a protest, | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
which as I understand it is basically to challenge capitalism | :10:13. | :10:19. | |
and to change capitalism in unspecified ways that the main | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
victim so far has been the Church of England? Well, I personally | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
believe that what's happened is that we've identified people within | :10:26. | :10:31. | |
the Church who really support our aims and values. That's been a | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
really empowering thing for us, because it demonstrates this | :10:34. | :10:39. | |
rainbow coalition within our movement. It is not just anti- | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
capitalist or people on the hard left. It is people within the | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
Church. We had on Sunday all different faith and community | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
leaders come down to speak to us and articulate very similar views. | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
As a party of the centre left, should your strategy be to coopt | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
these people to bring them into a left-wing party? Or to distance | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
yourself from them? I don't think it's either of those, Andrew. The | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
first thing I would say is that movements can change minds. You | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
referred back to movements that you've seen throughout your | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
political life. They can have an impact. People have an absolute | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
right to protest. Whether it is the same as the right to camp in the | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
front of St Paul's is a different point. I think the Cathedral has | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
been put in some difficulty in trying to respond to people who | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
turned up who they hadn't anticipated. It is a difficulty of | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
its own making at times as well. fairness yes, because closing the | :11:35. | :11:41. | |
Opening it again Hard to see what the health and safety issue was. I | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
agree with you. What is being articulated and what you said today | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
is a concern about the way things have been run, and a feeling, as | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
yet not fully expressed, that things need to change. So why don't | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
you coopt them, if this is an unformed feeling to which you are | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
sympathetic, here is your chance to bring it on board and give this | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
feeling, since you are the professional party, some policy | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
shape? Well, let me give you two examples of how we are doing | :12:11. | :12:16. | |
precisely that. One is, on international financial transaction | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
fax, we were proposing that in 2009. We wanted it to cover as many | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
countries as possible. It should be on the agenda of the G20 this week. | :12:25. | :12:31. | |
The second is the bankers' bonus tax, to give young people a job and | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
build 25,000 homes. But the Government doesn't agree with it. | :12:36. | :12:42. | |
The European Union, you don't need to be camped out St Paul's to be in | :12:42. | :12:48. | |
favour of the Tobin tax. Should they be moved? I'm not in favour of | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
tented cities moving around the country, be it from Dale form to | :12:51. | :12:56. | |
Parliament Square to the edge of St Paul's. When they are blocking a | :12:56. | :13:05. | |
pavement, yes, there's a problem. Ian and I were having an | :13:05. | :13:05. | |
programme Many respects she not probably what people were expecting | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
as a representative of the St Paul's protesters. There are some | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
massive problems with people who've moved money around and then the | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
House of Cards collapses. Some of the best brains in the world are | :13:17. | :13:23. | |
working thon and they can't work out how to solve the problem, along | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
with the euro crisis. We have to leave it there. Ian Chamberlain, | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
thank you for being with us. Now, should a woman have the right | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
to know if a new partner has a history of domestic abuse? Should | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
someone under 18 receive a mandatory prison sentence if they | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
use or threaten with a knife? Both proposals are up for debate this | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
afternoon. And we have two of the people behind the amendments in | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
Central Lobby, Labour MP Hazel Blears, and the Conservative MP, | :13:46. | :13:52. | |
Nick de Bois. Hazel, you want people to be able to find out | :13:52. | :13:54. | |
information in about their partners, did you know or think that people | :13:54. | :14:04. | |
:14:04. | :14:05. | ||
want to do that? Is there a demand There was some polling done, and I | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
think it was 91% of people thought they ought to know the history of | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
their partner. This followed a case where some body was stalked, | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
harassed and murdered by their partner. It turned out later that | :14:18. | :14:23. | |
he had a whole history of such offences. And that poor young woman | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
had no idea about his history. If she had known, she could have | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
decided that she would have nothing to do with him. Does that mean | :14:31. | :14:39. | |
you're in favour of the right to know, or it is up to them to ask? | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
I'm going to be saying that somebody should be able to ask the | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
Chief Constable, that there should be a presumption in favour of | :14:45. | :14:53. | |
disclosure. At the moment, that information will be shared amongst | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
all the agencies, and yet the person involved in the relationship | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
does not have that information. That seems to me to be a ridiculous | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
state of affairs, and there are two women every week murdered at the | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
hands of their partners. If we could just save a few lives through | :15:10. | :15:20. | |
:15:20. | :15:20. | ||
this, it would be worthwhile. advice would you give to Hazel | :15:20. | :15:26. | |
Blears on this one? I would say persistence and stubbornness, if | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
you think your cause is right and can build a coalition around it, | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
which I think Hazel Blears is doing, that is probably the best advice. | :15:34. | :15:40. | |
In terms of your cause, up to 1,400 extra teenagers could get custodial | :15:40. | :15:44. | |
sentences because of your amendment, that's a lot of young people with a | :15:44. | :15:49. | |
criminal record. We should be looking at it from the other end of | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
the telescope. It is absolutely vital that what I call the early | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
stages of getting into the cycle of knife crime violence, which can | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
lead to serious or fatal stabbings, that we need an effective deterrent, | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
as well as a range of other measures to help discourage people | :16:05. | :16:07. | |
from brandishing a knife in a threatening this is. We are not | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
talking about carrying a knife, we're talking about pointing | :16:11. | :16:16. | |
something and using it in that fashion. So, I'm optimistic, I | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
think part of the strong message which will come out from creating | :16:19. | :16:28. | |
this law, that will act as a way of keeping people out of prison. | :16:28. | :16:34. | |
you both of you. Alan Duncan, this amendment being put forward by Nick | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
de Bois, it is not going to be cheap, is it? If you're thinking | :16:39. | :16:44. | |
about cutting is prison places, then this will not help. When I was | :16:44. | :16:49. | |
Shadow Prisons Minister, we went through a lot of calculations about | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
reforming people, rehabilitating them, as opposed to putting them in | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
prison. But crimes of violence are the ones on which we ought to be | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
the toughest. When a teenager has no respect for authority of any | :17:00. | :17:05. | |
sort, and is wielding a knife in a threatening way, that is the sort | :17:05. | :17:12. | |
of crime on which we ought to be tough. So you would support the | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
extra cost. It is wrong just to look at cost on these things. | :17:16. | :17:22. | |
Government has been saying that cost is a big issue. Of course, | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
particularly in the warm third or so of prisoners who are very poorly | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
educated, they have got no job, no savings, no family life, the merry- | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
go-round of those, and those are the ones who need to be | :17:33. | :17:39. | |
rehabilitated, is where the greatest cost hits the country. | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
think we should do all we can to discourage people from carrying | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
knives and retain people. But you have to be quite careful with | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
mandatory sentences, because the courts in the end need to be able | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
to take account of circumstances. On Hazel Blears' amendment, it | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
would seem to me she has a strong case, because if other people get | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
the information but a prospective partner does not, then you have got | :18:03. | :18:09. | |
some difficulties. The Government has been coming up with some new | :18:09. | :18:14. | |
proposals to try and appease the unions who are planning to strike | :18:14. | :18:19. | |
on 30th November. In the last hour both sides came out of a special | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
meeting in the Cabinet Office to try to safeguard a deal. Jo has the | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
latest on this story. Yes, in 2010 the Government said it was | :18:28. | :18:38. | |
:18:38. | :18:39. | ||
the Government said it was committed to saving � 2.3 billion. | :18:39. | :18:45. | |
This means pension schemes will need to find huge savings. Unions | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
are currently balloting members about a nationwide day of action on | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
30th November. The results are due out over the next couple of weeks. | :18:54. | :18:57. | |
Earlier I spoke to the general secretary of the Association of | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
Teachers and Lecturers union, and asked her if she would accept the | :19:01. | :19:03. | |
asked her if she would accept the Government's proposal for more | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
generous rates. It is a very interesting position | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
that the Government is taking. It is their first serious change from | :19:12. | :19:17. | |
their previous position, which was, that's your offer, take it or leave | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
it. So it is worthy of consideration. What it will mean in | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
each scheme will be different things, so it needs to be looked at | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
closely. You're going to be meeting with your union colleagues - this | :19:29. | :19:31. | |
is being painted as the Government's final offer, so in a | :19:31. | :19:36. | |
sense, it is make up your mind time, isn't it? We will have to see. The | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
Government told us nine months ago that they had given us their final | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
offer, and now they have listened to the weight of argument and made | :19:43. | :19:49. | |
a change. The accrual rate is one issue. But there are also lots of | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
other issues which this does not address - the retirement age, the | :19:54. | :19:58. | |
increase in pension contributions, for example. So we have to look at | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
this in the round, and for each scheme, to see what it actually | :20:01. | :20:08. | |
means. You must accept now that in the current economic climate, | :20:08. | :20:10. | |
particularly when you look at the deal that private sector workers | :20:11. | :20:16. | |
get, paying more into their pensions and getting less out... | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
There is a real problem with private sector pensions. They lack | :20:20. | :20:27. | |
transparency and the fees are very high. But let's are just scotch the | :20:27. | :20:33. | |
myth that private sector pensions get no help from the taxpayer. In | :20:33. | :20:39. | |
the last year for which figures are available, private sector pensions | :20:39. | :20:45. | |
got �37.5 billion in indirect tax relief, which was �12.5 billion | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
more than was paid out in public sector pensions. So, private sector | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
pensions are very expensive, they lack transparency and they need to | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
be reformed. We have looked after public sector pensions better. | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
you do admit that private sector workers will pay in more and get | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
out less. Absolutely, but that is an issue with the way their | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
pensions are run. It does not have to happen. In other countries, they | :21:08. | :21:14. | |
do much better, Denmark for example. What about the negotiating position | :21:14. | :21:20. | |
- do you see yourself on strike at the end of the month? I hope not. | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
We went on strike for the first time in more than 100 years in June, | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
and we do not want to have to do it again. We will look at the offer | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
seriously. What about Labour's position, are you expecting more | :21:32. | :21:37. | |
support from Ed Miliband? I have given up a bit on that, really. I'm | :21:37. | :21:42. | |
not relying on the Labour Party to come to our aid or even to talk | :21:42. | :21:48. | |
much sense about pensions at the moment. Hillary Benn, she has given | :21:48. | :21:53. | |
up on the Labour Party. I think that was a trifle unfair, given | :21:53. | :21:56. | |
that we have been saying from the beginning of this that the | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
Government had to negotiate seriously. Why has it taken to this | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
late stage for the Government to come forward and make an offer? We | :22:02. | :22:12. | |
:22:12. | :22:15. | ||
have not seen the details yet, obviously. I think we have given | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
every support in arguing for a negotiated settlement and a serious | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
offer on the part of the Government, which they have failed to do up | :22:23. | :22:28. | |
until now, because they have just imposed changes. And now, at this | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
late stage they have come forward with something. Why have you taken | :22:31. | :22:37. | |
so long to come up with an improved offer? It is a process of | :22:37. | :22:41. | |
negotiation. Getting this right has been an essential component in our | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
international reputation. If we were not tackling this problem in | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
the way that we are, we would have enormous pain for people up and | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
down the country, with higher interest rates. I hope this will be | :22:51. | :22:57. | |
a sensible, grown-up negotiation between both sides. I thought the | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
demeanour of Brendan Barber coming out of the Cabinet Office was very | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
encouraging. I know there will be a statement later this afternoon | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
which I hope can avoid confrontation. We do not want to be | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
like Greece, Italy and France, full of strikes all the time. We want | :23:12. | :23:17. | |
people to know where they are. On the pensions side, no-one within 10 | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
years of retirement will be affected. All the very poorest will | :23:21. | :23:27. | |
be protected. And those are two very important principles. So you | :23:27. | :23:34. | |
do not see it as the final offer? There's a process of announcing if | :23:34. | :23:38. | |
the trade unions are happy with it or not. I'm not doing the | :23:38. | :23:44. | |
negotiations. What I think we have seen this morning are what looked | :23:44. | :23:50. | |
like some very fruitful encounters, which is encouraging. We are facing | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
enormous economic dangers in Europe. Fortunately, we are in a better | :23:55. | :23:57. | |
position than most European mainland countries, and we want to | :23:57. | :24:02. | |
keep it that way. We had growth figures yesterday which were better | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
than expected, but let's keeps steadily going forward and not risk | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
collapsing in the way that our neighbour countries are. But there | :24:10. | :24:17. | |
comes a stage when Labour, having seen the Government's offer, has to | :24:17. | :24:22. | |
tell us, that's the best we are going to get, we should accept it, | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
or you back the unions going on strike. We have not got to that | :24:26. | :24:32. | |
point yet. It depends on how the negotiations go. Either there will | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
be agreement or not, and you will have to take a judgment on which | :24:35. | :24:40. | |
side to support. And we will do that on the basis of what we know | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
at the time. But negotiations have not been completed. We have always | :24:44. | :24:48. | |
urged that there should be serious negotiations, and the Government | :24:48. | :24:52. | |
has got round to it very, very late in the day, having tried to dictate | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
to the unions what should happen to the pension schemes. The feeling I | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
was given was that the changes are quite technical and marginal, the | :25:00. | :25:07. | |
main principles of the reforms are still in place, so, are you ready | :25:07. | :25:12. | |
for a confrontation with the unions? We do not want a | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
confrontation, that is not a question I want to answer. That's | :25:16. | :25:25. | |
why I asked it. I would rather see no confrontation. It is hardly an | :25:25. | :25:32. | |
unreasonable question, even by my standards. Final-salary pensions | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
have all but disappeared in the private sector. We are seeing very | :25:37. | :25:40. | |
difficult numbers in the public sector, where costs have gone up by | :25:40. | :25:45. | |
50% over the last few years. You have got people possibly on �34,000 | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
a year getting pensions of �20,000 - you do not get that in the | :25:50. | :25:56. | |
private sector. We want to see a sustainable system for the decades | :25:56. | :26:01. | |
ahead. We want a system which will last, rather than Labour, who made | :26:01. | :26:11. | |
:26:11. | :26:11. | ||
tons of promises and left us in a state of financial collapse. | :26:11. | :26:20. | |
for something completely different. The lights in the studios come up. | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
The producer is waiting at his microphone to speak his last word | :26:24. | :26:32. | |
to the artist. The controllers are ready on vision and sound. The | :26:32. | :26:42. | |
vision and sound are on, the station goes on the air. Yes, dog, | :26:42. | :26:50. | |
television is 75 years old today. Don't adjust your sets. I like it | :26:50. | :27:00. | |
black-and-white. Back then, the BBC had an audience of 20,000. We can | :27:00. | :27:03. | |
only dream of figures like that on The Daily Politics. There have been | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
some great TV moments over the last 75 years, but The Daily Politics | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
has given the world perhaps the greatest prize in television | :27:10. | :27:20. | |
:27:20. | :27:22. | ||
history, yes, The Daily Politics Mug. To get your hands in on one, | :27:22. | :27:28. | |
you will have to or enter our Guess the Year competition. Let's see if | :27:28. | :27:38. | |
:27:38. | :27:48. | ||
# No-one to talk with, all by myself. These are the first of the | :27:48. | :27:58. | |
:27:58. | :28:02. | ||
Hungry silkworms are eating heartily, producing silk which will | :28:02. | :28:12. | |
:28:12. | :28:19. | ||
# Poetry in motion... We do not want the book to fall into the | :28:19. | :28:29. | |
:28:29. | :28:32. | ||
hands of unsuspecting people, who # Gone with the cold wind that | :28:32. | :28:39. | |
swept into my heart... # Gong with the lovers who let | :28:39. | :28:49. | |
:28:49. | :29:05. | ||
Everybody is guessing here in the studio. Send your answer to our | :29:05. | :29:13. | |
special quiz e-mail address. You can see the full terms and | :29:13. | :29:23. | |
:29:23. | :29:24. | ||
conditions for the competition on It is coming up to midday. Let's | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
take a look cap Big Ben, that can only mean one thing, Prime | :29:28. | :29:33. | |
Minister's Questions is on its way. And by absolutely no public demand | :29:33. | :29:39. | |
a tall, Nick Robinson, the BBC political editor. A we have been | :29:39. | :29:45. | |
talking about the G20. What a fine mess they have got us into. We are | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
about to have a Question Time in which the Prime Minister will look, | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
I fear, like a spectator at world events, rather than central to them. | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
There is an argument that that is in fact better, because you could | :29:58. | :30:03. | |
be Greece or Italy. But I think there is a sense that huge events | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
are going on, the French are effectively trying to put pressure | :30:07. | :30:15. | |
on the Greeks, with regard to this referendum. And also being told, we | :30:15. | :30:20. | |
will take IMF money off the table if you dared to vote no. That is | :30:21. | :30:27. | |
all happening as we speak, as the leaders had to Cabinet. On the | :30:27. | :30:32. | |
economy, it feels to me like it is almost a holding session. Is it | :30:32. | :30:36. | |
getting so serious in Europe that Britain may be asked to contribute | :30:36. | :30:42. | |
directly? Again and again, they say, in the Treasury and in Number Ten, | :30:42. | :30:50. | |
we are not doing that, we will not contribute in that way. We are a | :30:51. | :30:59. | |
shareholder in the IMF, about 4.5% of that fund its so we contribute | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
in that way, but when it comes to direct help via the EU, the message | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
from the Treasury and Number Ten is absolutely unequivocal, no, we will | :31:09. | :31:18. | |
not do it. I suggest that the Government has no better idea what | :31:18. | :31:22. | |
is going to happen now than we do. I gather they learned about the | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
Greek decision on the television. And when they called the Greek | :31:26. | :31:30. | |
ambassador, he was not there. Indeed, the Prime Minister clearly | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
thought the deal was done, when it This morning I had meetings with | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
ministerial colleagues and others, and in addition to my duties in the | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
House I shall have further such meetings later today. | :31:42. | :31:47. | |
With the average of-year-old living ten years longer than in the 1970s | :31:47. | :31:51. | |
reform of the pensions is essential. Will he ensure that it is fair to | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
my constituents in temporarys of the taxpayer and public sector | :31:55. | :31:57. | |
workers? My honourable friend makes an important point and the Chief | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
Secretary to the Treasury will be making a full statement to the | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
House. It is vital that we do something that is fair to taxpayers | :32:03. | :32:08. | |
and also fair to public sector workers. The costs of our public | :32:08. | :32:12. | |
sector pensions system is up by a third in the last decade. It is not | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
fair to go on as we are. But the new arrangements must be fair to | :32:16. | :32:21. | |
people who work hard in the public sector and on whom we are all | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
relying. Can I tell the House that low and middle income earners will | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
get more from their public sector pensions. Everyone will keep what | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
they've built up so far. Anyone within ten years of retirement will | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
see no change in their pension arrangements. At the end of this | :32:36. | :32:41. | |
people in the public sector will still get far, far better pensions | :32:41. | :32:45. | |
than people in the private sector. Ill really it is time that the | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
party opposite was clear they do not support strikes later this | :32:48. | :32:56. | |
month. THE SPEAKER: Ed Miliband. | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
Mr Speaker, does the Prime Minister believe that growth of 0.5% over | :33:01. | :33:06. | |
the last year and unemployment at a 17-year high point to the success | :33:06. | :33:12. | |
or failure of his economic plan? Obviously everybody wants the | :33:12. | :33:17. | |
British economy to grow faster. That's what everybody wants. But I | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
have to, I have to, I have to say to the honourable gentleman, | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
yesterday's figure of 0.5%, which was better than many people | :33:24. | :33:31. | |
expected, isn't it noticeable that he cannot even bring himself to | :33:31. | :33:38. | |
welcome news like that! The key issue, I think we all have to | :33:38. | :33:44. | |
address, is this. There's a global storm in the world economy today. | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
And it is in our interests to help others confront that global storm, | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
but we have also got to keep the British economy safe. We won't keep | :33:52. | :33:58. | |
it safe if we add to our deficit, add to our debt and put interest | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
rates at risk. Mr Speaker, first he blamed the Labour Government, then | :34:02. | :34:09. | |
he blamed CHEERING | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
First he blamed the Labour Government then he blamed Europe. | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
Yesterday he was apparently blaming his Cabinet colleagues for the lack | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
of growth in our economy. The truth with this Prime Minister is when | :34:21. | :34:27. | |
things go wrong it is never anything to do with him. Now, let's | :34:27. | :34:32. | |
ask about another one of his flagship policies. The business | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
growth fund. Launched nine months ago with the banks. Can he tell us | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
the number of businesses that the business growth fund have made | :34:41. | :34:48. | |
investment in? First of all the problem, the problem, the problem | :34:48. | :34:54. | |
with, the problem with pre-scripted questions is he doesn't listen to | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
the first answer. I didn't actually in my first answer blame the last | :34:58. | :35:03. | |
Labour Government. But if he would like me to I can start right now, | :35:03. | :35:08. | |
because it was the last Labour Government that left us record | :35:08. | :35:10. | |
debts, the record deficit. And it is this Government that is having | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
to deal with that. He asked about the business growth fund. This is | :35:14. | :35:20. | |
one of the schemes to ensure that banks are lending alongside the | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
Merlin scheme, which is actually seeing an increase in lending to | :35:23. | :35:26. | |
small businesses. That is the record we can be proud of and | :35:26. | :35:31. | |
something he didn't achieve. THE SPEAKER: Ed Miliband. | :35:31. | :35:36. | |
Mr Speaker, we all know by now with this Prime Minister that when he | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
blusters like that at the dispatch box, he is either too embarrassed | :35:40. | :35:43. | |
to answer or he doesn't know the answer. | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
So let me help him. The business growth fund was announced nine | :35:47. | :35:55. | |
months ago. It has five offices, 50 staff, how many investments a grand | :35:55. | :36:01. | |
total of two. And, Mr Speaker, it's becoming a pattern with this Prime | :36:01. | :36:05. | |
Minister, fanfare announcement then radio silence. He said in March, | :36:05. | :36:10. | |
I'm going to watch those banks like a hawk. And make sure they deliver. | :36:10. | :36:15. | |
So what is he going to do to get the business growth fund moving? | :36:15. | :36:20. | |
These are if banks he completely failed to regulate year after year. | :36:20. | :36:28. | |
Yes, yes, and these... (Interruption) THE SPEAKER: Order! | :36:28. | :36:33. | |
The House is getting... Order! Mr Campbell, calm yourself. The House | :36:34. | :36:39. | |
is getting far too excited. It is onlyle 6 minutes past. Order! Both | :36:39. | :36:45. | |
the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition must be heard. It | :36:45. | :36:49. | |
is called democracy and free expression. Prime Minister. | :36:49. | :36:52. | |
Speaker, let me give him the figures forewhat's happened under | :36:52. | :36:57. | |
the bank lending schemes of this Government. We have �190 billion of | :36:57. | :37:02. | |
new credit this year, up from 179 billion last year. That is a huge | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
increase. There is 76 billion of this for small and medium-sized | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
enterprises. That is up 15% on last year. We are seeing more bank | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
lending under this Government, but we are also seeing the bank levy so | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
that people in the banks are helping to pay to deal with the | :37:18. | :37:25. | |
deficit that his Government created. Mr Speaker, a totally hopeless | :37:25. | :37:32. | |
answer, one of his own schemes, one of his own schemes, the business | :37:32. | :37:36. | |
growth fund. They trumpeted the announcement and have not got a | :37:36. | :37:42. | |
clue what is happening to their own scheme. Business is struggling but | :37:42. | :37:46. | |
one group is doing very well indeed. Over the last year, when many | :37:46. | :37:52. | |
people have seen their wages frozen, directors' pay rose by 49%. The | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
Prime Minister expressed concern about this last Friday. But the | :37:55. | :37:59. | |
public want to know what is he going to do about it? Let me tell | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
you exactly what we are doing about it and will do about it. It is this | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
Government that introduced the bank levy. More raised in one year than | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
the bonus tax that they created. It is this Government that has | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
increased the fees that non-Doms have to pay. It is this Government | :38:14. | :38:21. | |
that has had an agreement with Switzerland and with Liechtenstein | :38:22. | :38:26. | |
to get hold of people with money overseas. This Government has seen | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
lower bank bonuses. I think the Archbishop of Canterbury speaks for | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
the whole country when he says statistics unacceptable in a time | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
of difficulty when people at the top of our society are not showing | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
signs of responsibility. It is this Government that is now consulting... | :38:42. | :38:45. | |
It is this Government that is consulting about proper measures to | :38:45. | :38:51. | |
make sure we get transparency in terms of boardroom pay, proper | :38:51. | :38:54. | |
accountability, more power for shareholders, all of those things | :38:54. | :38:59. | |
we are doing. I have to ask him, if he is so keen on this agenda, got | :38:59. | :39:04. | |
he do for the last 13 years? I will tell you what we did, Mr Speaker, | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
we introduced the 50p rate of income tax that he and chiz | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
Chancellor want to abolish! I'm glad we agree something needs to be | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
done about top pay. Last... Conservative members should calm | :39:16. | :39:22. | |
down, follow the Prime Minister's advice, just calm down. Last March, | :39:22. | :39:27. | |
last March, his fair pay review, which he set up, recommended that | :39:27. | :39:33. | |
the Government should require by January of 2012, next year, that | :39:33. | :39:39. | |
every top company should publish how much the highest earners get | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
compared to the average earner that. Type of transparency is the least | :39:43. | :39:49. | |
we can expect. Can he confirm that this will happen from January 2012, | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
yes or no? Unlike the last Government, we are consulting on a | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
series of steps to bring responsibility to the boardroom. | :39:56. | :40:03. | |
But very to say, Mr Speaker, we are a little bit, we are a little bit | :40:03. | :40:08. | |
wary about accepting lectures from a party that told us they were | :40:08. | :40:13. | |
intensely relaxed about everyone getting filthy rich, a party that | :40:13. | :40:18. | |
had a capital gains tax system so people in the City paid less tax | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
than their cleaner. I know he's forgotten these things but we | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
remember them and we've done something about it. Mr Speaker, | :40:25. | :40:32. | |
another report to Government, another failure to act. The truth | :40:32. | :40:36. | |
is, he has sat on Will Hutton's review upon the 9 months and done | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
nothing about it. That's why the recommendation isn't going to be | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
implemented. Mr Speaker, that's the truth about this Prime Minister. He | :40:43. | :40:48. | |
says we are all in it together but he lets the top 1% get away with it | :40:48. | :40:53. | |
while the other 99% see their living standards squeezed and lose | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
their jobs. That's why people are increasingly saying this is a Prime | :40:56. | :41:00. | |
Minister totally out of touch with their lives. | :41:00. | :41:06. | |
I to say, in the week when the Labour Party has hired a former tax | :41:06. | :41:10. | |
exile to run their election campaign he's got a bit of nerve to | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
lecture us on that. 13 years they had to regulate the banks. They did | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
nothing. 13 years they had to deal with bank bonuses. They did nothing. | :41:18. | :41:22. | |
And now in opposition their message to business is, give us some money, | :41:22. | :41:28. | |
you can run our election. THE SPEAKER: Jason McCartney. | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
Thank you Mr Speaker. Cable theft that cost the rail industry �43 | :41:32. | :41:38. | |
million over the last three years. And they've even drafted in Gurkhas | :41:38. | :41:42. | |
to patrol the network. Homes and churchs are being pilfered of their | :41:42. | :41:48. | |
lead and copper. In the past month one church yard in Huddersfield has | :41:48. | :41:53. | |
had 169 memorial plaques stolen. Will the Prime Minister join me in | :41:53. | :41:59. | |
saying now is the time to legislate to stop these stolen metals going | :41:59. | :42:03. | |
to merchants? My honourable friend makes an extremely important point. | :42:03. | :42:08. | |
The theft of metal, particularly from war memorials, is a sickening | :42:08. | :42:10. | |
and disgusting crime. We are workering with the Association of | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
Chief Police Officers to put in place an action plan to deal with | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
this. It does involve looking again at the regulation of scrap metal | :42:17. | :42:19. | |
dealers. We are determined to do that to put a stop to this | :42:20. | :42:24. | |
appalling crime. People in my constituency in north | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
Belfast and right across the country are desperately worried | :42:27. | :42:31. | |
about the increasing costs of gas, electricity, home heating oil, how | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
they are going to keep their homes warm this winter. What can the | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
Prime Minister tell the country he is going to do to help people in | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
this situation? In particular, will he reverse the cuts to winter fuel | :42:44. | :42:47. | |
allowance, which hits senior citizens, it is not good enough | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
surely to say he's following the plans of the opposition. He's done | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
so many things differently from the opposition. Why isn't he going to | :42:54. | :42:58. | |
do something different with the winter fuel allowance? On the issue | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
of winter fuel allowance we've kept the plans set out by the last | :43:02. | :43:05. | |
Government. I think that's the right thing to do. On the cold | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
weather payments we've taken the increase ma was meant for one year | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
and we've maintained that, so if there is a particularly cold | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
weather they'll get that help. We are making sure that energy | :43:16. | :43:18. | |
companies give people proper information in about the lowest | :43:18. | :43:22. | |
tariffs they can get, and yes have proper reform of the energy market. | :43:22. | :43:27. | |
Again, something that the party opposite has suddenly started to | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
talk about but did absolutely nothing about in Government. | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
Speaker, public sector pension reform should be achieved through | :43:33. | :43:37. | |
negotiation and compromise. Does the Prime Minister agree that it is | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
wholly irresponsible and down right destructive for senior politicians | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
of any political party to support strike action while negotiations | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
are ongoing? My honourable friend is right. This | :43:49. | :43:53. | |
I think is a very fair offer to hard-working public servants to say | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
that this is a strong set of pension reforms that will give you | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
pensions that are still better than anything available in the private | :44:02. | :44:07. | |
sector. To have a Labour frontbench that is silent on this issue, with | :44:07. | :44:12. | |
their education spokesman encouraging teachers to strike is | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
the height of irresponsibility. Speaker, my constituents Alan and | :44:16. | :44:21. | |
Linda Eastwood have a son who has been serving in our nation's armed | :44:21. | :44:27. | |
forces in Afghanistan. In common with with Royal British Legion Mr | :44:27. | :44:36. | |
and Mrs Easton regard the Prime Minister's decision to abolish the | :44:36. | :44:41. | |
post to be a betrayal. This is a very important issue and I have | :44:41. | :44:48. | |
discussions with the British Legion about it it as I know the Lord | :44:48. | :44:50. | |
Chancellor has as well. The point about the Royal British Legion, | :44:50. | :44:57. | |
this issue, is that the current proposal for the chief crone tore | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
the establish wood involve spending that we think the money would be | :45:00. | :45:04. | |
better spent on improving all coroners service across the country. | :45:04. | :45:09. | |
We are listening carefully to concerns expressed in both houses | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
of Parliament about this issue. Are we going to improve the performance | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
of our coroners? That is what service families want. That is what | :45:16. | :45:26. | |
:45:26. | :45:28. | ||
I want and that is what we will Public sector workers in my | :45:28. | :45:30. | |
Public sector workers in my constituency work extremely hard to | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
deliver essential public services, and I know that my Right Honourable | :45:33. | :45:37. | |
Friend will agree with me that we value these services tremendously. | :45:37. | :45:40. | |
Can my Right Honourable Friend the Prime Minister reassure these | :45:40. | :45:43. | |
workers and confirm that the Government's reforms, very | :45:43. | :45:48. | |
necessary that they are, are sustainable and remain among the | :45:48. | :45:54. | |
very, very best? I would certainly do that. He makes an important | :45:54. | :45:58. | |
point. The cost of supporting public sector pensions has gone up | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
by a third in the last decade. We are now spending something like �32 | :46:02. | :46:07. | |
billion, it is a major item of public spending. And we're taking | :46:07. | :46:10. | |
taxes off people, including in the private sector, to pay for that | :46:11. | :46:15. | |
pension provision. But I believe it is a fair scheme. For instance, a | :46:15. | :46:21. | |
teacher retiring on a salary of �37,000 would actually retire on a | :46:21. | :46:26. | |
pension of �25,000 in future, more than the �19,000 that they would | :46:27. | :46:32. | |
currently get. This is a fair set- up changes. The low paid in the | :46:32. | :46:35. | |
public sector will not have to pay increased contributions. I think | :46:35. | :46:44. | |
the whole House of Commons should get behind it. Mr Speaker, when the | :46:44. | :46:47. | |
Prime Minister goes to the G20 meeting, will he try and persuade | :46:47. | :46:51. | |
his colleagues of the urgency of coming up with some detail on the | :46:51. | :46:56. | |
eurozone settlement reached last week? It is not at all clear how on | :46:57. | :47:00. | |
earth Greece will get out of its difficulties, even if this | :47:00. | :47:05. | |
referendum passes. The European banks will lead shoring up well | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
before next summer. And as for the rescue fund, it does not actually | :47:08. | :47:17. | |
exist. The G20 need to show the same urgency that it showed two | :47:17. | :47:23. | |
years ago when it met in London. think the Right Honourable | :47:23. | :47:26. | |
Gentleman is absolutely right in what he says about the urgency of | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
this G20 meeting, and the necessity of its agenda. I think some | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
progress was made at the European council meeting a week ago when | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
actually, for the first time, they did accept a proper write-down of | :47:37. | :47:42. | |
Greek debt, which has to be part of the solution, also, a proper | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
recapitalisation of Europe's banks, done to a credible test, rather | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
than the incredible tests which we have had in months gone by. The | :47:49. | :47:55. | |
final element he refers to, rightly, needs to have more substance added, | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
and that is to make sure there is a proper firewall to stop contagion | :47:59. | :48:03. | |
in the eurozone. The need has got even greater. We cannot involve | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
ourselves in Greek domestic politics, but it has become even | :48:06. | :48:10. | |
more urgent to put meat on the bones of these plans, to show that | :48:10. | :48:14. | |
we are removing one of the key obstacles to global growth, which | :48:14. | :48:17. | |
is the failure to find a proper plan to deal with the problems in | :48:17. | :48:20. | |
the eurozone. According to the Government's own projections, | :48:20. | :48:26. | |
Britain's population is set to increase from 62 million to 70 | :48:26. | :48:30. | |
million by 2027, with two thirds of this being driven by immigration. | :48:30. | :48:34. | |
Will the Prime Minister commit to stem this increase by breaking the | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
almost automatic link between foreign nationals who come to work | :48:38. | :48:43. | |
here subsequently been granted citizenship? We are committed to | :48:43. | :48:49. | |
doing exactly that. He is right to raise this issue. I think proper | :48:49. | :48:52. | |
immigration control and welfare reform are to sides of the same | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
coin, and this government is committed to controlling | :48:55. | :48:58. | |
immigration properly but also putting British people back to work. | :48:58. | :49:03. | |
I can tell him that today, we have announced, in terms of the illegal | :49:03. | :49:07. | |
immigration coming through the student route, that more than 450 | :49:07. | :49:10. | |
colleges will no longer be able to sponsor a new international | :49:10. | :49:13. | |
students because they were not actually properly established to do | :49:13. | :49:16. | |
that. These, just could have brought in more than 11,000 | :49:17. | :49:20. | |
students to the UK to study each year. That is just one example of | :49:21. | :49:23. | |
how this government is living up to its promise to get a grip on | :49:23. | :49:28. | |
immigration. Does the Prime Minister agree with the vast | :49:28. | :49:33. | |
majority of people that smoking should be banned in vehicles where | :49:33. | :49:43. | |
there are children present? I do think it is right, I have to admit, | :49:43. | :49:46. | |
as a former smoker, and someone who believes strongly in Liberty, | :49:46. | :49:51. | |
someone who did not support it at the time, it has worked, I think | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
the smoking ban is successful. I'm much more nervous about going into | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
what people do inside a vehicle. I will look carefully at what he says, | :50:00. | :50:06. | |
but we have just think seriously about it. The Prime Minister will | :50:06. | :50:10. | |
be aware of a report issued yesterday on green energy | :50:10. | :50:15. | |
investment in Scotland. Does he agree with me that this report ably | :50:15. | :50:19. | |
demonstrates that the benefits of green energy in the UK are only | :50:19. | :50:24. | |
unlocked by combining Scotland's renewable potential with large- | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
scale investment made possible by the UK? Does he agree that a drawn | :50:28. | :50:32. | |
out independence referendum would be a serious distraction from that? | :50:32. | :50:37. | |
He makes an important point. A major financial institution warned | :50:37. | :50:40. | |
yesterday of the dangers of investing in Scotland while there | :50:40. | :50:43. | |
is this uncertainty about the future of the constitution. It is | :50:43. | :50:49. | |
important that we keep our United Kingdom together, and stressed that | :50:49. | :50:51. | |
when it comes to vital industries, like green technology, the | :50:51. | :50:55. | |
combination of a green investment bank, sponsored by the United | :50:55. | :50:58. | |
Kingdom government, and the many natural advantages in Scotland, can | :50:59. | :51:03. | |
make this a great industry, but we will only do it if we keep the | :51:03. | :51:06. | |
country together. The Prime Minister said that his government | :51:06. | :51:10. | |
would be the greenest ever, does he still take that statement | :51:10. | :51:15. | |
seriously? If so, will he personally intervene to sort out | :51:15. | :51:19. | |
the appalling chaos which is resulting from the slashing of | :51:19. | :51:24. | |
feeding tariffs in six weeks' time, leading to substantial job losses | :51:24. | :51:33. | |
and chaos in the industry? It is this government that has set aside | :51:33. | :51:36. | |
�3 billion for a green investment bank, much talk about in the past, | :51:36. | :51:42. | |
never done. This government has put in place a carbon price floor, one | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
of the first governments anywhere in the world to do that. We have | :51:45. | :51:50. | |
put aside �1 billion for carbon capture and storage. This is a very | :51:50. | :51:56. | |
green government, living up to our promises. It would the Prime | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
Minister join me in congratulating the pupils and staff at Whitchurch | :52:00. | :52:04. | |
High School, a foundation status comprehensive school in my | :52:05. | :52:13. | |
constituency, the former school of Sam Warburton, of Gareth Bale, both | :52:13. | :52:16. | |
outstanding sports people, and also Geraint Thomas, the gold medallist, | :52:16. | :52:24. | |
who will be receiving the award as state school of the year? It is a | :52:24. | :52:27. | |
very impressive list of sports personalities who have attended | :52:27. | :52:32. | |
this School, I don't know what they put in the water! But I would join | :52:32. | :52:34. | |
My Honourable Friend in congratulating such an excellent | :52:34. | :52:41. | |
school. In the past four years, six children and two adults have been | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
killed in dog attacks, and some 6,000 postal workers are attacked | :52:46. | :52:51. | |
each year. We need to tighten up the law in this area. Would the | :52:51. | :52:53. | |
Prime Minister take a personal interest and make sure that | :52:53. | :52:57. | |
legislation is brought forward? Honourable Lady makes an important | :52:57. | :53:03. | |
point. Legislative attempts at this in the past have not always been | :53:03. | :53:07. | |
successful at capturing the breeds that need to be captured. I will | :53:07. | :53:14. | |
certainly take a personal interest in this. Following the Prime | :53:14. | :53:19. | |
Minister's answers a moment ago, and given the huge anger about the | :53:19. | :53:23. | |
pay for the top 100 directors, can he give me a personal assurance | :53:23. | :53:30. | |
that he is committed to the transfer of power overpay from the | :53:30. | :53:35. | |
boardroom to the shareholders of our companies? I want to see that | :53:35. | :53:39. | |
happen. I think the answer to this is much more transparency about the | :53:39. | :53:42. | |
levels of pay, much more accountability and strengthening | :53:42. | :53:48. | |
the hand of shareholders. And there is something else we need to do, to | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
make sure that non-executive directors on boards are not the | :53:51. | :53:55. | |
usual rotating list of men patting each other's backs and increasing | :53:55. | :53:59. | |
the level of remuneration. I want to see more women in Britain's | :53:59. | :54:09. | |
:54:09. | :54:19. | ||
boardrooms. Order! The House must come down, I want to hear | :54:19. | :54:24. | |
MrDavidLammy. The Prime Minister has described his work programme as | :54:24. | :54:30. | |
the biggest such programme since the 1930s. But there are 6,500 | :54:30. | :54:36. | |
people unemployed in Tottenham, 28,000 on out-of-work benefits, and | :54:36. | :54:40. | |
only 150 vacancies - what is his work programme going to do about | :54:40. | :54:44. | |
that? As the Right Honourable Gentleman says, this programme | :54:44. | :54:48. | |
plays a key role in preparing people for work, which is | :54:48. | :54:52. | |
absolutely vital. It also brings employers in to offer jobs to those | :54:52. | :54:56. | |
people. I have looked specifically at the issue of Tottenham. When I | :54:56. | :55:00. | |
visited his constituency with him, I know that there is a shortage of | :55:00. | :55:03. | |
vacancies in the borough of Tottenham itself. But we have got | :55:03. | :55:06. | |
to encourage people living in London to be prepared to travel | :55:07. | :55:13. | |
more widely to look for work. I think that is absolutely vital. Pot | :55:13. | :55:20. | |
of the work programme should be aimed at addressing exactly that. | :55:20. | :55:24. | |
Rural fire services attend more primary fires and more road traffic | :55:24. | :55:28. | |
accidents than those in urban areas, and yet receive less funding. This | :55:28. | :55:32. | |
is typical of rural services across the piece, where residents pay more | :55:32. | :55:38. | |
and receive less. Will the Prime Minister meet with me and other MPs | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
representing rural areas to get a fairer deal for those in rural | :55:41. | :55:48. | |
areas? I'm happy to meet with My Honourable Friend. It is important | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
that we have a fair deal for rural areas. There are very big | :55:52. | :56:02. | |
:56:02. | :56:02. | ||
difference is particularly in the use of Retained firefighters. | :56:02. | :56:06. | |
nine months, the Government's Business Growth fund has invested | :56:06. | :56:11. | |
in precisely two companies. At a time when the economy is flatline | :56:11. | :56:15. | |
ing, is that good enough? This Government has cut corporation tax | :56:16. | :56:20. | |
for every business in the country, has introduced enterprise zones to | :56:20. | :56:24. | |
help employment, has actually increased the number of | :56:24. | :56:28. | |
apprenticeships by 250,000 over the life of this Parliament. They | :56:28. | :56:32. | |
criticised the Regional Growth Fund - there was no Regional Growth Fund | :56:32. | :56:38. | |
under Labour, that's the point. We inherited an economy with the | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
biggest budget deficit in Europe, and it is this government which is | :56:42. | :56:45. | |
helping our economy through the international storms to make sure | :56:45. | :56:55. | |
:56:55. | :56:57. | ||
we remain safe in the UK. This week marks national Adoption Week. We | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
must continue to do all we can to support children in the care system, | :57:01. | :57:07. | |
and also to encourage prospective adoptive parents to come forward. | :57:07. | :57:11. | |
My Honourable Friend makes an extremely important point. We need | :57:11. | :57:16. | |
more parents to come forward as potential adopters, and also has | :57:16. | :57:19. | |
potential foster carers, because there was a huge build up of | :57:19. | :57:21. | |
children in the care system who will not get that help unless | :57:21. | :57:24. | |
people come forward. But it is important that government makes the | :57:24. | :57:27. | |
pledge that we will make the process of adoption and fostering | :57:28. | :57:32. | |
simpler. It has become too bureaucratic and too difficult, and | :57:32. | :57:36. | |
as a result, that is putting people off. I am determined that we crack | :57:37. | :57:43. | |
this. It is a sense of national shame that while there are 3,600 | :57:43. | :57:47. | |
children under the age of one in the care system, there were only 60 | :57:47. | :57:50. | |
adoptions last year. We are publishing information on every | :57:50. | :57:54. | |
single council, so people can see how we are doing in terms of | :57:54. | :57:59. | |
driving this vital agenda. This week, yet another military academic | :57:59. | :58:03. | |
has called for the reopening of the defence review, and a leading | :58:03. | :58:06. | |
military think-tank has said that Britain is now cutting military | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
equipment which might prove vital in the future. Will the Prime | :58:10. | :58:14. | |
Minister finally listen to the voices of the defence community and | :58:14. | :58:19. | |
reopen the deeply flawed defence review? We had no defence review | :58:19. | :58:24. | |
for 10 years, and now they want two in one go. It is typical of the | :58:24. | :58:28. | |
opportunism of the party opposite. I think this is a day, as | :58:28. | :58:31. | |
hostilities in Libya are coming to an end, that we should be praising | :58:31. | :58:38. | |
our brave armed services. Schools in rural Northumberland were | :58:38. | :58:42. | |
largely ignored by the previous government. With the school's | :58:42. | :58:49. | |
budget rising from �35 billion to �39 billion in 2015, will the Prime | :58:49. | :58:55. | |
Minister welcome the progression in my constituency? I will. It is | :58:55. | :59:00. | |
important to note that as we are protecting the per pupil funding, | :59:00. | :59:04. | |
even at a difficult time, it means the education budget is going to be | :59:04. | :59:08. | |
rising and not falling. As ever, the Shadow Chancellor is wrong even | :59:08. | :59:15. | |
when he is sitting down. He talks even more rubbish when he stands up. | :59:15. | :59:23. | |
I digress. As well as the extra investment in the school's budget, | :59:23. | :59:26. | |
there is also the opportunity for free schools, which I think will be | :59:26. | :59:34. | |
a major reform in our country to bring more school places. Perhaps | :59:34. | :59:38. | |
when the Shadow Chancellor attends one of the schools he will then a | :59:38. | :59:44. | |
few manners. Some people are going to burst, they're getting so | :59:44. | :59:51. | |
excited. Will the Prime Minister listen to the campaigners outside | :59:51. | :59:57. | |
Parliament today, and the 80,000 people who have written to him in | :59:57. | :00:01. | |
recent weeks, regarding the introduction of a Robin Hood tax at | :00:01. | :00:05. | |
the G20 summit, and make sure the Revenue is earmarked for | :00:05. | :00:10. | |
sustainable development and the growing climate crisis? I think | :00:10. | :00:17. | |
there is widespread support for the principles behind such a tax, but | :00:17. | :00:26. | |
it has to be adopted on a global basis. We must be careful that we | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
do not allow other countries, including some European countries, | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
to use a campaign for this tax, which they know is unlikely to be | :00:35. | :00:39. | |
adopted in the short term, as an excuse for getting off their aid | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
commitments. We can be proud of the fact that we are meeting our aid | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
commitments - don't let others use this tax as a way of getting out of | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
things they had promised. The world population went past 7 billion | :00:52. | :00:58. | |
people this week. The UN predicts that over the next 40 years, world | :00:58. | :01:04. | |
demand for food will increase by a 70%. That should be good news for | :01:04. | :01:10. | |
farmers. But since 1990, Britain's capacity to feed itself has fallen | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
by a fifth. Will the Prime Minister bring forward a credible strategy | :01:13. | :01:18. | |
to grow Britain's farming industry to feed us all in the future? | :01:18. | :01:21. | |
Honourable Friend makes an important point. It is true that we | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
have seen our own food security declining, as well as food | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
production being severely challenged. It is important to | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
remember that farmers are businesses, and they need things | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
done, as other businesses do, in terms of the regulation, a | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
predictable income, and all of those things. This government is | :01:39. | :01:49. | |
:01:49. | :01:53. | ||
committed to making that happen. September 2010, when asked if this | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
government would be building more homes per year, the Housing | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
Minister replied, yes, building more homes is the gold standard | :01:59. | :02:05. | |
upon which we shall be judged. In which year it does the Prime | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
Minister expect his gold standard to be achieved? We have said that | :02:09. | :02:13. | |
we are going to expand the building of homes for social rent by | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
actually increasing and reintroducing the right to buy, | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
which the last government so scandalously ran down. We're also | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
going to make available government land so that builders can get on | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
and build without having to buy that land, and only have to pay | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
when they have actually delivered the House. So, we want to see an | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
extra 200,000 homes built in that way. That will give us a far better | :02:36. | :02:46. | |
:02:46. | :02:47. | ||
record than the government which he A couple of developments have been | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
happening in the outside world. We are told that the Government's new | :02:51. | :02:57. | |
offer to the unions on pension reforms includes a proposal that 1 | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
million public sector workers due to retire in the ten years from | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
April next year will not be affected by any of the changes | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
currently being discussed. I think Danny Alexander is making a | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
statement in the Commons about that. We'll come back to that. | :03:17. | :03:22. | |
While on air, a technical matter, but it could be a harbinger to come. | :03:22. | :03:30. | |
There's been a spike in the yields bonds pay. This is a sign perhaps | :03:30. | :03:36. | |
of the fear of the contagion coming out of Greece, first of all hitting | :03:36. | :03:42. | |
Italian bonds this week and now French bodies. There's a real worry | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
in France that it would lose its AAA credit rating. Prime Minister's | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
Questions didn't get into much of that at all. It was only when | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
Alistair Darling got to his feet that the matter of the eurozone and | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
Greece and the referendum and if bail-out plan, which Mr Darling was | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
not convinced by, only did did the Commons turn itself to the main | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
matter of the day, the week, the month, the year. Until then there | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
had been no discussion of it. Let's hear what you had to say about | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
Prime Minister's Questions. Viewers I think are reflecting their | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
frustration that the seriousness of the global situation which you've | :04:17. | :04:23. | |
been talking about should be dealt with in what they see is a partisan | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
way. They want solutions. And there was quite a lot of criticism of | :04:26. | :04:32. | |
David Cameron. Many viewers think he is not answering the questions. | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
Ellis King, when David Cameron was new to power, blaming Labour was | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
effective and true. However with the problems we face abroad and in | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
our country, to merely blame the previous Government appears weak | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
and holds the nation back. Anne says Cameron is blaming | :04:47. | :04:52. | |
everyone but the himself. When will he take responsibility for his | :04:52. | :05:00. | |
Government's policies? And Ed says Ed Miliband totally smashed David | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
Cameron. Damien from Manchester says Ed Miliband, who was in power | :05:04. | :05:11. | |
for 13 years, who spent every penny we didn't have, so before he plays | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
the cheap opportunist card maybe he should look at his own record. | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
Martin says Labour are returning to type. Their attack has moved on to | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
the them and us opportunism. Miliband's pathetic attempt to talk | :05:25. | :05:32. | |
about the 99% versus 1% is old- style jealousy and spite, not a | :05:32. | :05:37. | |
credible policy agenda. Alistair Darling's question, the former | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
Chancellor. James says the first sensible question from the other | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
side. Careful, this may catch on. Nick, there's a sense in which | :05:44. | :05:50. | |
British politics is on hold at the moment. Until events outside our | :05:50. | :05:57. | |
control unravel, develop, come to some kind of finality? I think what | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
Ed Miliband was trying to do as Labour leader is say look, there | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
are problems in the British economy that are due to British policies | :06:05. | :06:10. | |
not the eurozone. I know he believes that, in the short term, | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
this eurozone crisis is politically, and I stress the word politically, | :06:14. | :06:20. | |
is convenient for the Government. Of course it is not welcome to what | :06:20. | :06:26. | |
it does to our economy. In the short term, what Labour want to say | :06:26. | :06:31. | |
is snow, a lot of the poor figures we are seeing now predated the | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
eurozone. It may make it harder, it may mean there are headwinds. | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
That's the argument he was trying to get going I think at Prime | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
Minister's Questions. But it had the slight feel until Alistair | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
Darling stood up of feeling irrelevant compared to what's going | :06:46. | :06:52. | |
on. Other than urging and cajoling, but get any impression from the | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
background briefings about the G20 coming up in the south of friend | :06:56. | :07:03. | |
tomorrow, and Friday, the two days, 3rd and 4th November, do we have a | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
strategy? Do we matter? Well, the answer I think to most of that is | :07:07. | :07:16. | |
no. Of course we matter. Remember the G20, we are a member of the G20. | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
But in a sense what's happening is that a summit that was planned to | :07:20. | :07:26. | |
begin tomorrow lunchtime and go through to Friday is starting this | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
afternoon. Chancellor Merkel and President Sarkozy of France have | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
summoned the Greek Prime Minister to come. He's not a member of the | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
G20. No, Greece shouldn't be at this event, but as a result of his | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
call to the referendum he's been summoned. There is going to be a | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
meeting involving the President of the commission, Jose Manuel Barroso, | :07:45. | :07:52. | |
the head of the IMF, Christine Lagarde, and others, trying to | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
strengthen the eurozone package that looks like unravelling, | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
despite the fact it is only a few days old, so that the whole of the | :08:00. | :08:06. | |
G20 meeting isn't taken over with a panic about what to do in the face | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
of the Greek decision which could mean the eurozone bail-out deal is | :08:10. | :08:16. | |
torn to shreds in January when a referendum is held. It is quite | :08:16. | :08:21. | |
clear, Hilary Benn, that Alistair Darling, who knows a thing or two | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
about these matters, isn't convinced that the bail-out deal as | :08:24. | :08:30. | |
it stands is a winner. Everyone is very anxious about it. Clearly the | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
decision of the Greek Prime Minister ratified by his Cabinet in | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
the early hours to hold this referendum has created a lot of | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
uncertainty The end the broke have to determine their own way of | :08:41. | :08:46. | |
deciding whether to support it or not. But, this is a very dangerous | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
time for everybody. I think Nick is also right. There are two things | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
going on. There is the eurozone crisis. If that goes wrong is going | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
to affect every economy. And there is the crisis of domestic economic | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
policy, which is the failure of the Government's economic plan to work. | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
That's why the economy's grown by 0.5% in a year. There are things | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
the Government could do but they are refusing to do them. Of course | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
it's the opposition's job to point out how the Government could be | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
running the economy doctor, from its own point of view. But when the | :09:17. | :09:23. | |
OECD as it did this week predicts that the eurozone will grow by only | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
0.3% next year, including Germany, the whole of the eurozone, which | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
frankly means it could go into recession, because economists use | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
decimal points to show they have a sense of humour. They have no idea | :09:37. | :09:43. | |
if it is going to grow by 0.3 or minus 0.3, then the British | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
economy's performance looks par for the course. So in that sense we are | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
all in it together! Clearly the British economy, as every economy | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
in Europe, is going to be affected if the eurozone crisis gets worse | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
and that comes to pass. But you have to look at what the Government | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
is doing in terms of the plan they put forward when they came into | :10:02. | :10:07. | |
office. If it simply in not working. It inherited a growing economy and | :10:07. | :10:13. | |
growth is now flat lining. LAUGHTER You may laugh, Alan, but it is the | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
case, as you know. And therefore it could take action to stimulate | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
demand, because in the end we know already that the Government is | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
going to have to borrow more than they were planning and they are | :10:25. | :10:33. | |
going to have to downgrade their forecast. I think Alistair | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
Darling's one question outshone Ed Miliband's six. He is a serious guy | :10:37. | :10:42. | |
asking a serious question. It is astonishing that a day before G20 | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
the leader of the Labour Party doesn't ask a serious question on | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
the global economy. We were talking about this earlier, Britain is in a | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
different position from the European mainland. Thank goodness | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
we are in the in the euro that. Vindicates what we've been arguing | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
for over a decade. We also have low interest rates and are urgeing | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
forward. We are not on the brink of collapse, like agreements The | :11:02. | :11:07. | |
danger is that if Greece on the back of this referendum were to end | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
up having a total default, that would smack the French very hard, | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
which is why their bond yields have suddenly spiked this morning. And | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
the European mainland would be in a very difficult position. Hillary, | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
one of the reasons we keep on saying look, Labour governments | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
always run out of money and they made a mess, is the effect of doing | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
so lasts for the very long term. You can't flick a finger and go | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
back to growth. You can't flick a finger and employ people just like | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
that. The pain that we are suffering are labour pains because | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
you spent too much money, said vote for me, I'm going to spend lots of | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
money, and, as we are seeing with the pensions challenges, then of | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
course the Government always lets people down. Let me try and bring | :11:51. | :11:56. | |
you back to the exact moment. I'm genuinely puzzled at the Labour | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
policy position at the moment. I would be grateful if you could | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
explain it. At a time when too much debt is clear through real problem | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
for Greece at the moment. It can't service it. When worries about | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
servicing Italian debt have taken bond yields to over 6%, when | :12:13. | :12:19. | |
worries about financing Spanish debt have taken it to over 6%. And | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
worries about French debt are now producing these kind of spikes in | :12:23. | :12:30. | |
bonds, how can you credibly argue that you would increase by an even | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
faster rate British debt? Well, the Government is going to have to | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
borrow more anyway because its economic plan isn't working. That | :12:37. | :12:46. | |
is already very clear. That is the case. But you want more? | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
borrowed less... Let him finish. The Government is going to have to | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
borrow more, and therefore it is how you strike the balance. What's | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
happening at the moment is unemployment is rising. When people | :12:56. | :13:01. | |
lose their jobs they stop paying tax, you start paying out JSA, it | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
costs the Government money. We were told a year and a bit ago a this | :13:05. | :13:11. | |
plan was going to work. Private sector jobs would be created to | :13:11. | :13:17. | |
outweigh the jobs in the punt sector. If the plan doesn't seem to | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
be working then Government should be revisiting their approach. I | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
think that's very sensible advice. I think the time has come for the | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
Chancellor to do precisely that. Your sentence, the Government is | :13:28. | :13:33. | |
having to borrow more, is not a logical sentence. It's a fact. | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
we are having to finance and fund the deficit which we were left. But | :13:36. | :13:43. | |
you can only do that as best you can. Yes we put up VAT, we are | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
trying to maximise revenues. If there's a hole you have to full the | :13:47. | :13:52. | |
hole. You want to add to that by paying out of a mortgage with a | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
bigger mortgage. That's lunacy. immediate question David Cameron | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
will face is what does he say to what President Sarkozy is saying to | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
the Greeks? It is pretty tough. Hef said how shocked he was and how | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
shocked Europe was. I understand he's effectively said to the Greeks, | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
you should treat there referendum like an in-out referendum about | :14:12. | :14:18. | |
membership of Europe. If you vote to get out, bang goes all the IMF | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
loans. This will be seen as quite a threatening stance. The question | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
then, at the moment Downing Street have had nothing to say about those | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
comments. They are tending to say that's a matter for eurozone | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
countries not us, but there'll be pressure on the Prime Minister to | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
express a view. It have to be an inout referendum, because there is | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
no bail-out deal formulated to put to the Greek people. Alistair | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
Darling would be the first person to tell up. There are too many | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
unknowns to put it to a vote. You are off to the G20 now, are new | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
this second. The Prime Minister goes tomorrow morning. I'm going as | :14:49. | :14:55. | |
well. The south of France? I've checked the temperature, 18 degrees. | :14:55. | :15:02. | |
It's a hard life. Bring us back a stick of rock. I don't think they | :15:02. | :15:07. | |
do rock in Cannes! Sit different from Blackpool? I will talk about | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
it later with you. Now, here's a radical idea for you - Britain | :15:12. | :15:14. | |
should consider joining the euro. That's what the former leader of | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
the TUC, John Monks, thinks. Given the state of the eurozone, you'd be | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
forgiven for thinking he's gone mad. But does he have a point? Here's | :15:21. | :15:31. | |
:15:31. | :15:40. | ||
I favoured joining the euro at the start. In the hope that it would | :15:40. | :15:47. | |
better shape. It might seem crazy to many, particularly at the moment, | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
but I think it's important that Britain is prepared to reconsider | :15:51. | :15:57. | |
its attitude to joining the euro, provided the present crisis is | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
resolved satisfactorily. If the eurozone survives the current | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
crisis it is inevitable that the 17 members will have to work more | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
closely to get on a range of economic issues. If Britain stays | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
outside, then it risks losing influence both in Europe and in the | :16:14. | :16:24. | |
:16:24. | :16:34. | ||
I know that many of my compatriots want to reduce the role of Britain | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
in the EU, not to enhance it. But I believe it is important to keep up | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
Britain's influence on the single market, and on trade and relations | :16:43. | :16:48. | |
with our neighbours across the North Sea. Except that now is not | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
the time to join the euro currency. But at some stage in the future, if | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
the euro comes through the present crisis, then I want to see the | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
debate reignited, that Britain should consider whether or not it | :17:01. | :17:07. | |
joins that currency. John Monks, who now sits in the House of Lords, | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
is with us. It has probably an understatement to say that this is | :17:10. | :17:15. | |
a minority view, particularly at the moment. Timing is not too good, | :17:15. | :17:23. | |
yes. Admittedly, you gave a caveat, saying, this is not the time. But | :17:23. | :17:28. | |
while on earth are you talking about this now? It is partly | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
because various people I think have been saying that perhaps it was a | :17:32. | :17:37. | |
good thing we did not cut will the euro. Before, perhaps they were | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
concentrating on the fundamental reasons why we might consider | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
fixing our currency into the euro system. The key ones for me are | :17:44. | :17:49. | |
that the British economy, since the war, has rested on devaluations | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
against neighbours across the North Sea, Germany, the Netherlands and | :17:53. | :17:57. | |
some others. It seems to me to be crucial that we remember all the | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
time, inside or outside the euro, that we have got to remain | :18:01. | :18:07. | |
competitive with them. We have had two bonanzas, the North Sea and | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
financial services, there is not going to be a third one. The | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
competitiveness of our economy, with those neighbouring economies, | :18:14. | :18:19. | |
is crucial. You're not advocating it now, so what kind of timing are | :18:19. | :18:29. | |
:18:29. | :18:34. | ||
you thinking of? In the immediate crisis, it is not desirable, but we | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
would be in the bottom half of the league, we would be with the | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
Mediterranean countries, I fear, at the present time. Our fundamental | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
problem is that we're not in the first division of European | :18:45. | :18:52. | |
countries, with Germany, the Netherlands, even Denmark, which is | :18:52. | :18:57. | |
not in the euro but pegs its currency to the euro. I want to see | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
Britain in that particular league, not in the Second Division. There | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
are fears that if there is closer fiscal integration amongst the | :19:05. | :19:12. | |
eurozone countries, that Britain will be to some extent left out | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
checks do you see that happening? It is inevitably likely to be the | :19:15. | :19:23. | |
case. The Prime Minister and George Osborne are urging the eurozone to | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
move in certain directions, and so I think it is inevitable that | :19:27. | :19:32. | |
Britain will be pushed towards the margins, reduced to comments from | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
the touchline, and I don't think that is a particularly good | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
position for Britain and the long- term. What do you say to that? It | :19:39. | :19:45. | |
is a fear that has been expressed, the worry that Britain will be left | :19:45. | :19:51. | |
on the sidelines? He has a good argument, in one sense, when we | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
have a budget deficit, we escaped that deficit through devaluation. | :19:56. | :20:01. | |
The solution is not to join the euro, it is not to have that budget | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
deficit. Everyone said join - if you meet the convergence criteria, | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
we are all the same and we can swim together. But nobody asked what the | :20:11. | :20:17. | |
criteria for divergence were. People have not shown a united | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
budget discipline, fiscal discipline, and that is why the | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
system is never going to work, because you have got sovereign | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
countries not following the rules, and the whole thing comes apart, | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
and thank goodness that we are out of it. We should stay out of it, | :20:30. | :20:37. | |
but have the sort of discipline which you rightly say we need. | :20:37. | :20:43. | |
Labour Party's policy seems to be slightly unclear at the moment. At | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
one time Tony Blair advocated joining the euro, but it did not | :20:46. | :20:53. | |
happen. But Major, have you ruled it out forever? We were right not | :20:53. | :20:55. | |
to have joined, and that was a decision we took when we were in | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
government. I cannot see in the foreseeable future circumstances in | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
which it would be the right thing to do. We are pragmatic Europeans, | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
as opposed to ideological Europeans, and the argument has always been | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
about what is in our national self- interest, and that's a perfectly | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
proper way to look at it. Nobody can argue that it is in our | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
interests at the moment. For the euro as a member states, they have | :21:24. | :21:30. | |
got to find a way of making the eurozone work. It is true that the | :21:30. | :21:38. | |
absence of that has created some of the difficulties. I want to get you | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
to comment on something else. While we have been on air, the Chief | :21:43. | :21:45. | |
Secretary to the Treasury, Danny Alexander, has been speaking to the | :21:46. | :21:50. | |
Commons on public sector pensions. This is what he had to say. This | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
generous offer should be more than sufficient to allow agreement to be | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
reached with the unions, but it is an offer that is conditional upon | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
reaching agreement. I hope on the basis of this offer, the trade | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
unions will devote their energy to reaching agreement and not to | :22:05. | :22:12. | |
unnecessary and damaging strike action. You have been through many | :22:12. | :22:14. | |
negotiations - do you get a sense that we're heading for | :22:14. | :22:22. | |
confrontation on this one? I thought these concessions were | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
going to be mainly technical, but one of them is quite big, taking | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
one million workers out of the reforms altogether. Will it be | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
enough? There has been a lot of work going on. I know that Brendan | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
Barber has been in the middle of all sorts of things. I very much | :22:38. | :22:43. | |
hope they have got something, but I do not know the details. Nobody has | :22:43. | :22:52. | |
rushed to the microphones. People are thinking about it, I'm sure. | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
has cost �2 million, it has taken a team of researchers months and | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
months to devise, many of us are not even sure what the point of it | :22:59. | :23:05. | |
is. What am I talking about? The coalition's new happiness test. | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
Here's what the Prime Minister said about it. From April next year we | :23:09. | :23:13. | |
will start measuring our progress as a country not just by how our | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
economy is growing, but by how our lives or improving, not just by | :23:18. | :23:23. | |
standard of living, but by a quality of life. I think this is | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
something which is important to our goal of trying to create a more | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
family friendly country. It is something I have been calling for | :23:30. | :23:36. | |
for a long time. The Office for National Statistics has come up | :23:36. | :23:42. | |
with a list of 10 indicators of well-being. I wonder how long that | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
took them. They're launching a consultation before publishing a | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
finalist in three months' time. That will keep them in a job. We | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
thought it was our public duty to put it to the test first. Who | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
better to help us than a man who has always had a smile on his face, | :23:58. | :24:07. | |
take it away, Cheggers! We have done a snapshot of some of the | :24:07. | :24:12. | |
questions. For both of you, I want a score from one to 10, and short, | :24:12. | :24:16. | |
succinct answers, otherwise I will just throw you off the show. For | :24:16. | :24:24. | |
you first of all, here's the question... 10 out of 10 for my | :24:24. | :24:34. | |
:24:34. | :24:35. | ||
question... 10 out of 10 for my husband! 10 out of 10, too. Oh, no, | :24:35. | :24:38. | |
husband! 10 out of 10, too. Oh, no, hang on. Do you have a job and are | :24:38. | :24:46. | |
you happy with it? We have not got you happy with it? We have not got | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
the graphic for that one. Yes, I do, and 10 again, if we're allowed. | :24:49. | :24:59. | |
what about yourself? Definitely 10, I'm a happy Minister. They're such | :24:59. | :25:05. | |
liars! Next question - are you satisfied with your income? I would | :25:05. | :25:14. | |
be mad if I said no, so, 10 out of 10, yes! Ditto, I'm not complaining. | :25:14. | :25:24. | |
And finally, do you trust politicians and your local council? | :25:24. | :25:30. | |
Yes, I do. We need our politicians to deal with the problems of the | :25:30. | :25:39. | |
world. The politicians I work with, not everybody, but the colleagues | :25:39. | :25:44. | |
on my side, yes, I do, and I would give them a 10. Funnily enough, I | :25:44. | :25:49. | |
would have exactly the same view, but equal and opposite. And my | :25:49. | :25:55. | |
local Conservative councils are local Conservative councils are | :25:55. | :26:00. | |
great. Four tough questions for you. I don't think that was honest. | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
think it shows the problem of trying to measure happiness, it is | :26:03. | :26:09. | |
really quite difficult. Have you not just hauled below the waterline | :26:09. | :26:18. | |
the Government's happiness index? By not answering truthfully? | :26:18. | :26:25. | |
you not actually try and do this under Tony Blair in 1995? I could | :26:25. | :26:30. | |
be wrong. I do not know, to tell you the truth, but I think it is | :26:30. | :26:35. | |
quite a hard thing to measure, in the way that they are seeking to do. | :26:35. | :26:38. | |
At the moment, facing economic difficulties, a lot of people will | :26:39. | :26:44. | |
be very anxious. That will affect their happiness. They might not | :26:44. | :26:51. | |
feel secure in their job. Why is the Government spending our hard- | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
earned cash to find out whether you're satisfied with your husband | :26:54. | :26:59. | |
or wife? What has that got to do with you? Not an enormous amount, I | :26:59. | :27:07. | |
suppose. Can you turn it the other way around and look at it from the | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
public's point of view? As a member of the public, I do not want to be | :27:11. | :27:17. | |
rude, but I think politicians become slightly cocooned when they | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
are in power. Also it is quite nice for them to feel what the nation is | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
feeling. It would not be a good idea to find out what the public | :27:25. | :27:31. | |
really do think about education, health, the economy. There is a | :27:31. | :27:38. | |
value in this. This is a new technique to get to some of the | :27:38. | :27:40. | |
underlying feelings about what people really think about their | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
life, their country, their circumstances, which | :27:43. | :27:50. | |
straightforward polling does not really get. And so, I'm unhappy | :27:50. | :27:55. | |
with my partner, unhappy with my job, with my income, and I do not | :27:55. | :28:04. | |
trust politicians - what are you going to do about it? Not me! | :28:04. | :28:10. | |
you do that and still stay in the government? I don't think so. | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
People contact politicians all the time, and we get not a bad sense of | :28:14. | :28:21. | |
how people are feeling. The task for us is, what are we going to do | :28:21. | :28:27. | |
about it? How do we make sure the people get jobs? You could be | :28:27. | :28:33. | |
marriage guidance councillors, in your next job. Well, having got | :28:33. | :28:39. | |
absolutely nowhere with that... you happy, Andrew? I'm happy this | :28:39. | :28:45. |