Browse content similar to 04/11/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics on Friday. Greek | :00:25. | :00:27. | |
tragedy descends into farce with profound implications for the | :00:27. | :00:32. | |
future of the eurozone and the world economy. As Prime Minister | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
Papandreou faces yet another vote of confidence, EU leaders and the | :00:34. | :00:41. | |
Treasury think the unthinkable - Greek departure from the euro. Can | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
it be avoided, should it be avoided and what would it mean for the rest | :00:45. | :00:50. | |
of us? As G20 leaders scratch their heads and wonder what to do, we'll | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
have the latest from Athens, the City of London and one of the most | :00:53. | :00:58. | |
powerful British members of the European Parliament. And remember | :00:58. | :01:04. | |
this? Was the ban on fox hunting really worth the fight? We talk to | :01:04. | :01:06. | |
the man who pushed the controversial legislation through | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
Parliament and a Tory MP who wants David Cameron to keep his promise | :01:10. | :01:20. | |
:01:20. | :01:20. | ||
And with me in the studio is Bronwen Maddox, editor of Prospect | :01:20. | :01:30. | |
:01:30. | :01:36. | ||
magazine, and the Mirror's Prospect is for intellectuals and | :01:36. | :01:42. | |
So George Papandreou is still the Greek Prime Minster but for how | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
long is anybody's guess. This time yesterday we reported that he was | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
on his way to the President to offer his resignation. We even | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
named a likely successor. But those reports turned out to be wrong. | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
He's still there. Though for how long is another matter. Until | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
yesterday afternoon we thought he wanted to hold a referendum - but | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
it turns out he doesn't. And yesterday there was talk of a | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
government of national unity. But there isn't one. Confused? Join the | :02:03. | :02:10. | |
club. So where now for this Greek tragedy? Yesterday, and forgive us | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
for the togas but we had to do it eventually, the key players were | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
working frantically to find a way out of the mess. Mr Papandreou | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
offered to abandon the now infamous referendum and instead proposed a | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
coalition government. The markets rallied on the news but his offer | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
was rejected by the leader of the Greek opposition who called on him | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
to resign. So far he's staying put - no referendum vote. But he faces | :02:33. | :02:39. | |
a vote of no confidence in the Greek Parliament tonight. Meanwhile, | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
in Cannes, the G20 leaders are left like spectators at the feast. Jose | :02:43. | :02:45. | |
Barroso, who's President of the European Commission, has admitted | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
that there is a possibility Greece could leave the euro and that | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
preparations are being made if that happens. Last night, as fears | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
increased that Italy could be the next country to implode, key | :02:55. | :03:02. | |
European leaders and President Obama met to discuss the crisis. | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
One possibility gaining ground is a proposal to increase the firepower | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
of the International Monetary Fund, something that would see Britain's | :03:08. | :03:18. | |
:03:18. | :03:19. | ||
liability in the fund increase. Indeed, beefing up the IMF looks | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
like being the fig leaf G20 leaders will don before leaving Cannes. | :03:22. | :03:24. | |
Speaking this morning George Osborne, the Chancellor, said that | :03:24. | :03:30. | |
was something the British Government was pushing for. I think | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
we've got a day apart negotiating ahead of us here in Cannes. The | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
eurozone have to face up to their responsibilities and have to stand | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
behind their own currency. No one else can do that for them, | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
including Britain. Then the rest of the world, which includes Britain | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
but also China and Japan and the like, have to make sure that the | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
international economic system that is stable and well funded. And that | :03:54. | :04:02. | |
includes the IMF. That was George Osborne. The eurozone doesn't | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
really seem to know what it's doing. Can you imagine a bigger mess? | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
can. So far, this is what muddling through looks like. We haven't got | :04:10. | :04:16. | |
a complete disaster. Just disaster. Just disaster. There needs to be | :04:16. | :04:23. | |
degrees of disaster. That sounds like a good joke but distinguishing | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
between the euro falling completely apart, Greece in a very disorderly | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
way, not paying any of its debts. That may still happen. Yes, but | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
that's different from what we've got now, which is a test of whether | :04:36. | :04:44. | |
the Greek government can hold itself together. Be set up to a | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
shambles -- it's an utter shambles. There's no guarantee it could get | :04:47. | :04:52. | |
better, it could get worse. Trying to second-guess what the Greek | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
political a leader to wing is impossible because they don't even | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
know themselves. We don't know what's happening to the euro, the | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
impact on Britain, we don't know what's happening on the world | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
economy. One thing is certain, the eurosceptics on the Conservative | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
benches have already clocked that Britain, David Cameron, George | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
Osborne giving money to the IMF, rather than the European financial | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
stability fund. He is just using the middleman to possibly bail-out | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
the euro. The it's not just the Tory eurosceptics. Labour is not | :05:22. | :05:28. | |
keen on this either. They've stayed at arm's length from this. Ed Balls, | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
the shadow chancellor, has already said he thinks it should be the | :05:32. | :05:34. | |
European Central Bank which effectively is supposed to police | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
the euro, that should be putting forward the money and not the IMF. | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
No, he has said things which are very similar, not a world away from | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
George Osborne, of Britain needs to support the IMF, but being careful | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
about what commitments the IMF should make to Europe. I don't | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
think it does a lot of good to sit there and say it is all a shambles. | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
It could be worse. Anything could be worse. They could be a military | :05:59. | :06:07. | |
coup in Greece. It could be worse. Yes, but we haven't yet got a Greek | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
default. We haven't yet got a complete abandonment of the attempt | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
to patch it up. In Greece, they look at Argentina and what happened | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
to it when it defaulted, they are beginning to wonder if the best way | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
is to default now. If it only happened in Greece, that's fine. | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
But the contagion could spread across the entire eurozone. That is | :06:29. | :06:39. | |
the big point. Let's get the latest on the crisis in Athens from our | :06:39. | :06:46. | |
correspondent Mark Lowen. Let me ask you a couple of scenarios. If | :06:46. | :06:52. | |
Mr Papandreou loses the vote tonight, what then happens? Then | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
the government would collapse, Mr Papandreou would be forced to call | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
early elections. That is a strong possibility still because, as you | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
say, it is on a knife-edge. George Papandreou at the moment has a | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
parliamentary majority of just two. Yesterday, we had three of his MPs | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
threatening to vote against him in the vote of confidence, mainly | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
because of one reason. Because he called a referendum earlier in the | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
week on the latest debt deal for Greece negotiated in Brussels last | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
week. But within the last hour, the finance minister here as officially | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
said that he has spoken to his European colleagues to inform them | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
that the referendum has been scrapped. That will reassure these | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
three rebel MPs, it will probably persuade them to vote with George | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
Papandreou. One of them has told me she will vote but George Papandreou, | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
so he could still come through this by the skin of his teeth. If he | :07:43. | :07:49. | |
does, does he then proceed, does he go back to plan B and Desi attempt | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
to implement all the reforms and cuts that have to follow from the | :07:54. | :08:01. | |
bail-out of the Greek economy agreed on 27th October? What we | :08:01. | :08:06. | |
think would happen is this. That George Papandreou would get through | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
the confidence motion and would then, there are indications that he | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
may then tried to initiate proceedings to form a national | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
unity government involving his party, PASOK, and the main | :08:18. | :08:23. | |
opposition New democracy party. The opposite party say they want Mr | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
Papandreou to resign, they don't want him to be leader. They want | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
fresh elections. Presumably, any unity government would not have | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
George Papandreou at the helm. If another leader took over, there | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
would then be an attempt to vote through the bail-out deal agreed in | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
Brussels last week to implement the measures. That would be a caretaker | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
government until fresh elections were called. The big question now | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
was whether that caretaker government could steady the ship, | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
could prevent even more political instability year and could allow | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
Greece to ride through this storm and then received perhaps the next | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
instalment of its bail-out, 8 billion euros this country would | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
need by mid- December in order to avoid bankruptcy, and then continue | :09:03. | :09:11. | |
to try to ride out the financial Thank you very much. We are joined | :09:11. | :09:21. | |
:09:21. | :09:23. | ||
Quite a lot of ground to cover here. Let me put this to you. Even if the | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
Greek bail-out now goes ahead, even if the government in Athens | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
attempts to implement it, I suggest to you it won't work. Yes, I agree. | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
I don't think it's going to work. That is why the situation is so bad. | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
Even if what was agreed in the so- called magnificent bail-out deal | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
last week by the EU, even if that is agreed it would work, it's not | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
enough. That's because the amount of debt that will be written off | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
for Greece is just not enough, they would still have far too much debt. | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
This would only therefore delay the crisis a bit. Secondly, because the | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
other linchpin of this bail-out plan, the bail-out fund, I think | :09:58. | :10:03. | |
that has run into a lot of trouble. It was meant to tap the Chinese to | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
increase its capacity, that doesn't seem to be working. I don't think | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
that the situation looks very good. At the same time, you have mounting | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
fears for Italy that are getting worse by the day. Let me come to | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
you on Italy. It is a much more serious problem and a much bigger | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
problem. Italian yields are now over 6%. At one stage this week | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
they were heading to 6.5 % because of fears of the Italian sovereign | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
debt situation. If they had 7% of his game over, is it not? If they | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
hit back and stay there for a few days it is probably going to cause | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
a really big crisis because of the structure of the financial system, | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
the fact that the exchange on which these bonds are effectively traded | :10:43. | :10:46. | |
would require more collateral on. These technical reasons would mean | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
it would precipitate quite a bad crisis. I really think that the | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
eurozone has to try and maintain this crisis in Greece. That is the | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
reason why I think there's been such a big psychological shift. | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
They are starting to realise it may be too late for Greece, regardless | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
of what happens tonight and tomorrow. It may be too late to | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
save Greece and keep Greece within the euro. Therefore, the only | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
chance of trying to avoid a much greater problem, a problem that | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
could engulf the whole of the global economy, is to cut graceless | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
and try and do something about Italy and Spain. The problem is | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
they don't really have a plan to stop the rot from spreading. We've | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
seen the business about the IMF been called in to start looking at | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
what's going on in Italy. That is not enough forced a new mentioned | :11:29. | :11:34. | |
the IMF, let me bring you to my third proposition. It looks like | :11:34. | :11:39. | |
the IMF is now becoming everybody's get out of jail card, it's what the | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
G20 will probably concentrate on in their communique today. At my | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
proposition to you is, is -- it is not the 5th Cavalry. It's not. What | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
is even more frustrating about this is a week ago the big get out of | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
jail card was this bail-out fund. Now that the IMF it. I'm pretty | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
sure that in a few weeks' time it is going to be the European Central | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
Bank again. The pressure will be bound to -- mountain on them again | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
to become the lender of last resort for these countries and start | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
printing money. The problem is they made it very clear yesterday they | :12:11. | :12:14. | |
don't want to do that, and the Germans are adamant this must not | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
happen. So I don't see a way out at the moment given the current | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
structures. It's easy to say, we are going to get the IMF involved | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
and all of our problems will go away. But we can see from the | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
history of the IMF that it doesn't really work that way. Does | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
denouncing you are increasing the firepower of the IMF, that doesn't | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
achieve anything. We've seen this time and time again over the last | :12:36. | :12:41. | |
few years. Grand announcements at G20 meetings and so one about the | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
so-called massive bail-out funds and firepower. In reality, it never | :12:45. | :12:55. | |
:12:55. | :12:55. | ||
really resolve the crisis, it just delays it. And we're joined by | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
Sharon Bowles, Liberal Democrat MEP and Chair of the European | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
Parliament's Committee on Economic and Monetary Affairs. Going back to | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
Greece, you told us in July that Greece leaving the euro would be | :13:07. | :13:12. | |
bad for everybody. Do you still believe that? I think if Greece | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
leaves the euro and the EU, then the fall-out of that and the | :13:15. | :13:20. | |
contagion could still be very bad indeed. Unfortunately, since July | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
we have had on going rumbling contagion and some of the things | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
that men were unthinkable on now becoming more -- more thinkable, | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
partly as a consequence of action not being definitive enough forced | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
to has it become the case for both the the German Chancellor and the | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
French President in particular, that have increased leaving in a | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
messy way would be bad. Greece staying in is bad. We are in a very | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
difficult position. They are both bad. We are between a rock and a | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
hard place. It is quite difficult to workout which is the optimal. | :13:57. | :14:03. | |
You could have cut Greece lose ages ago, one thinks about it now and in | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
retrospect maybe that would have looked better. But there is a great | :14:07. | :14:12. | |
concern that if Greece believes the euro that the markets would just | :14:12. | :14:17. | |
think, OK, now we will hand on to the next one. Any kind of measure | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
like that would have to be accompanied by something that was | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
the action will binding close-up of the rest. But what we are seeing | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
here is a failure of European leadership. It's not just that | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
Greece was a problem. The 27th October deal was beginning to | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
unravel before the ink had dried. The bond markets have already | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
started to put up the price of Italian yields before Mr Papandreou | :14:41. | :14:47. | |
had a rush of blood to his head. If the Europeans came up with a shock | :14:47. | :14:53. | |
and all bail-out fund, a crew euro fund that would be big enough to | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
protect the countries that are in liquid - Spain and Italy - as | :14:58. | :15:03. | |
opposed to the countries that are just insolvent, i e bankrupt, | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
Greece. I largely agree with you. If you look at my past quotes, you | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
will discover I was there with two trillion at the beginning of the | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
year. Why can't they come up with that? I think if they come up with | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
something like that at the beginning of the year it would have | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
been easier. The problem now up trying to come up with two trillion | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
is it would potentially undermine the creditworthiness of the | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
guaranteeing countries, even France would be at risk. Realistically, | :15:28. | :15:32. | |
they couldn't go beyond what they've already put in without | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
there being a mechanism to do it, such as these leverage or guarantee | :15:36. | :15:41. | |
schemes. But they are a little bit fancy and they didn't bring out the | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
detail at the same time as the announcement. We are still waiting | :15:45. | :15:53. | |
Is it sustainable for Europe to continue the way it does when quite | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
clearly behind the scenes you've had the leaders of France and | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
Germany interfering directly in Greek domestic policies? They have | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
clearly been at the Finance Minister. They've been speaking to | :16:06. | :16:16. | |
:16:16. | :16:16. | ||
the opposition. They have been behaving with powers. Some of the | :16:16. | :16:18. | |
things with Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy behind the scenes | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
that we don't like that much, and many of the eurozone member states | :16:22. | :16:25. | |
don't like it very much, when they don't know what's going on either. | :16:25. | :16:31. | |
However, I do agree that you had to put some pressure on to the Greek | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
political parties. If you look at Spain and Portugal, even though | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
they were having elections, their political parties got their act | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
together and worked together for stability. In Greece they weren't. | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
They were always... Sure. But you were part of this project. You were | :16:47. | :16:54. | |
the one that wanted the eurozone to be created, and wanted us to join | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
it. You are part of the club class Europe while the Greeks are wall on | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
the ground in austerity. I don't think that's the argument of the | :17:03. | :17:09. | |
moment. Give us an apology. Just a small one. I said I made the | :17:09. | :17:14. | |
mistake of not recognising how our financial market legislation would | :17:14. | :17:20. | |
undermine the fact that we should have had a bond market that | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
exercised discipline. Whilst you have zero risk waiting on sovereign | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
debt you don't get it. You were warned about that at the time but | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
we were told it wasn't an issue. It seems to me the struggle here is | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
that, even if Greece proceeds this, problem doesn't go away. The Greek | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
economy is now 15% smaller than it was three years ago. They are now | :17:40. | :17:45. | |
asked to take even more austerity. This will just rumble on and it's | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
the single biggest depressant on the growth of this economy and | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
other economies around the developed world. If it really gets | :17:55. | :18:01. | |
serious about Greece leaving the euro, commercial life stop there is, | :18:01. | :18:04. | |
because because people can't work out what stock they are dealing in | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
and what it might be worth. point is, there is no resolution of | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
this, even if the bail-out fund comes back on to the scene. It just | :18:12. | :18:17. | |
rumbles on and continues to depress any chance of getting growth into | :18:17. | :18:20. | |
the economy. Italy has to be the point. This is the economic flaw on | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
the your open. I was always attracted by the political concept | :18:24. | :18:30. | |
but believed wait and see, prepare and decide, because you haven't got | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
labour markets Mobility around Europe. You can't move from one | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
country to another to get a job without the language skills. You | :18:38. | :18:44. | |
don't get a transfer big enough that you would in Britain if that | :18:44. | :18:48. | |
country goes down the plan. Maybe Greece would be better in the | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
medium and long term with a default, with their own currency that can | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
fluctuate, because they are now locked into a currency that's | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
making them massively uneconomic. final question to you. The European | :18:59. | :19:03. | |
Union hasn't been able to do it, the eurozone hasn't been able to do | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
it, Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy haven't been able to do it. | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
Did you really think the IMF is your saviour here? I think the IMF | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
can play a useful part in this early intervention. I've always | :19:16. | :19:26. | |
:19:26. | :19:27. | ||
been one of those that believed that the ECB has to be the eminence | :19:27. | :19:36. | |
grise at the end of the day. Where there is a will there is a way. | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
Thank you. As I'm sure you know, this week is | :19:39. | :19:45. | |
the first of the hunting season. Obviously I know, that because it | :19:45. | :19:55. | |
:19:55. | :19:59. | ||
! Tally-ho! I hear you cry. And no wonder, because six years on from | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
the ban on hunting with hounds, the practice is alive and well. But are | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
the foxes? And if not, was it worth it? Adam Fleming caught up with the | :20:06. | :20:15. | |
man behind the ban. In 2001 Alun Michael was phoned by Tony Blair | :20:15. | :20:24. | |
with the job offer of Rural Affairs Minister, and the job of banning | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
fox-hunting. I said I take it you want me the get the legislation | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
through quickly. He hesitated and said that wasn't quite what I had | :20:34. | :20:39. | |
in mind. I thought you could search for a compromise. I was taken | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
abarks because opinions had become so embedded on both sides of the | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
issue, nobody had been allowed to be neutral, there was such a | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
passion. Passionate is one word you could | :20:49. | :20:54. | |
use to describe the argument that followed. Culminating in this | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
protest outside Parliament by the Countryside Alliance, who claimed | :20:57. | :20:59. | |
the Government was attacking individual liberty and beating up | :20:59. | :21:05. | |
on the rural economy. It was very nasty. There was some very violent | :21:05. | :21:07. | |
people involved in the demonstration. I think the main | :21:07. | :21:11. | |
problem was that the Metropolitan Police had been given to believe | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
that these were nice people who were coming up just to exercise | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
their democratic rights without using violence. And on the day that | :21:18. | :21:25. | |
wasn't the case. Inside, just as much drama. Five protesters broke | :21:25. | :21:30. | |
into the chamber, the first non- parliamentarians since the days of | :21:30. | :21:37. | |
Charles I. It happened as hall lan Michael debated with his shadow. | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
James Grey was just about to let them through into the open space. | :21:41. | :21:47. | |
They seemed at a loss as to what to do with it. One stood in front of | :21:47. | :21:53. | |
me and said, "You, hunting, pension, it's all gone wrong." Sorry, could | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
you say that again? Also gone was the proposal for a tribunal to | :21:58. | :22:03. | |
licence individual hunts, replaced with an outright ban. The Bill | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
ping-ponged fruitlessly between the Commons and the Lords until the | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
then speaker forced it through using the Parliament Act. THE | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
SPEAKER: Very to tell the House that I have certified the Hunting | :22:14. | :22:21. | |
Bill under section 2 of the Parliament Act 1911. So from | :22:21. | :22:27. | |
February 2005 the hounds have chased fake trails laid by hands. | :22:27. | :22:36. | |
Some say it is a law often breached. I think over a longer time than my | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
original tribunal the legislation will have its way and this will be | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
something consigned to the darker days of our history. I'm not sure | :22:44. | :22:50. | |
his old boss Tony Blair would toast that. In his memoirs he says he | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
would have had less trouble if he had proposed euthanasia of | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
pensioners. Joining us now from Carmarthen is | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
the Conservative MP, Simon Hart, who used to be the chief executive | :23:00. | :23:08. | |
of the Countryside Alliance during the fox-hunting wars. Is it fair to | :23:08. | :23:14. | |
say that the hunts still continue? And that the foxes sometimes still | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
get caught? Since those days I think there've been 100,000 days' | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
hunting and it is all pretty confusing. Thing package | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
highlighted that. I think everybody's attempting to remain | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
within the law, confusing though it is. Sure enough, I don't think it | :23:29. | :23:35. | |
always works as well as it should. Is everyone attempting to stay | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
within the law? I think they are doing their best in the | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
circumstances but it's not easy. The police say it is very hard to | :23:42. | :23:47. | |
get evidence to prosecute. The dogs do pick up the scent. It is hard | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
then to stop them. It is pretty hard to know whether people really | :23:52. | :24:00. | |
are abiding by the law or are just getting round it? I don't think it | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
is just the police. The judiciary and the public are saying that it | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
is complicated and the people doing the hunting. It is a unique law in | :24:09. | :24:15. | |
that it has managed to upset and disappoint everybody who is | :24:15. | :24:20. | |
involved, whichever side of the ooct. David Cameron offered a free | :24:20. | :24:25. | |
vote to restore funding. I think it was a part of the Tory election | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
appeal. Do you think, do you feel let down he hasn't done that? | :24:30. | :24:36. | |
Should he do it? It is part of the coalition manifesto, and the | :24:36. | :24:42. | |
coalition... Why hasn't he done it? We've only been in office 16 months. | :24:42. | :24:44. | |
Everybody realises there are slightly more pressing concerns at | :24:44. | :24:48. | |
the moment. This is not exactly something that would be top of the | :24:48. | :24:52. | |
list of priorities. The PM has been clear, lit happen in the lifetime | :24:52. | :24:59. | |
of this Parliament, I have no doubt. This is not a satisfactory | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
situation for anybody, so let's sort it out, this time once and for | :25:02. | :25:09. | |
all. Do we need to go back on this and have another vote? There this | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
is an argument for tighten up the law. I remember him predicting the | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
end of rural life as we know it. That hasn't happened. How did you | :25:18. | :25:24. | |
know? When were you last in the country? I go there all the time. | :25:24. | :25:30. | |
You fly over it! I don't own any. Does David Cameron really want to | :25:30. | :25:37. | |
spend time on having MPs vote on setting dogs on deer and hares? | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
you have a vote on this? It is not pressing, but I'm a liberal on | :25:42. | :25:49. | |
these things. You have to set the bar high. I don't like fox-hunting | :25:49. | :25:55. | |
but I didn't like the legislation. It was a shambles. Let me go back | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
to our MP here. If you had a vote in the House on this you would | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
almost certainly lose it wouldn't you? I think there would be a small | :26:03. | :26:08. | |
majority. It is tight. The numbers are in the too bad. There are fewer | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
Conservatives who are against hunting than there were back then. | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
This is nothing to do with your outgoing Defence Secretary? He was | :26:17. | :26:24. | |
a bit of a blue fox. There are fewer now than there were in 1993. | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
Fewer foxes or MPs? Fewer Conservative MPs against hunting. | :26:28. | :26:33. | |
The argument is no longer really about the individual practice but | :26:33. | :26:38. | |
whether this is good law, whether it is appropriate, whether it works. | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
The coalition agreement says it, the Prime Minister says it, | :26:42. | :26:46. | |
everybody realises we are in a really unsatisfactory state of | :26:46. | :26:51. | |
affairs. Let's sort it out. Are you off fox-hunting this weekend? | :26:51. | :26:59. | |
I can't get time off from the whips. I didn't know they controlled your | :26:59. | :27:05. | |
weekend, but at least it will be a good weekend for the foxes. | :27:05. | :27:10. | |
Coming out of Cannes it looks like there is no real agreement on what | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
size the new IMF fund should be. They haven't been able to agree on | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
the scale of the increase. Time now to look back over the week | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
gone by. There's been a lot of Europe. This is the week in 60 | :27:21. | :27:31. | |
:27:31. | :27:34. | ||
It was all eyons Europe as Greek PM George Papandreou caused financial | :27:34. | :27:39. | |
shock waves on Monday with his plan for a referendum on the eurozone | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
bail-out. The chaos in Athens dominated G20 discussions in Cannes, | :27:43. | :27:48. | |
as France and Germany gave the Greeks a stark option, take it or | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
leave the euro. No wonder Mr Papandreou dropped his referendum | :27:52. | :27:57. | |
plan. Back at home, GDP figures were slightly better than.Ed. David | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
Cameron promised tough action on councils that fail to place | :28:01. | :28:08. | |
children for adoption quickly enough. The current situation isn't | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
working Work. And the protest outside St Paul's continued this | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
week. The Dean became the second clear Tokyo leave. | :28:16. | :28:21. | |
The offer over public sector pensions wasn't enough to convince | :28:22. | :28:27. |