14/03/2012 Daily Politics


14/03/2012

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn with live coverage of prime minister's questions and the latest political news, interviews and debate.


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Could morning, folks. This is the Daily Politics. David Cameron

:00:43.:00:47.

continues his trip to the United States. Last night to watch a

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basketball game with Barack Obama. Today it is down to business with

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the official talks at the White House.

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Top of the agenda is the military operation in Afghanistan and the

:00:57.:01:01.

timetable for withdrawing troops. We will be looking at so called

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endgame in a campaign that has been going on for over a decade.

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Back home, the latest job figures show that unemployment has risen

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again to 2.67 million. The number of people in work has also

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increased. And with just one week to go before

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the Chancellor delivers his spring Budget, and -- an influential

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Conservative thinker delivers his advice. My biggest brokers would

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not be the eurozone or the deficit. It would be the rise of China and

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other new economies. All of that to come before 1

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o'clock today along with Prime Minister's Questions. The novelty

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value, it is Nick Clegg and Harriet Harman because the Prime Minister

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is in Washington DC. With us for the duration, Cabinet Office

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minister Mark Harper and shadow Justice Secretary Sadiq Khan.

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Welcome to you both. So David Cameron's American road trip is

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under way. He touched down in Washington yesterday afternoon and

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after checking into Blair House just opposite the White House,

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where dignitaries stay if they are in favour, he was whisked off by

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Air Force One with Barack Obama. There he is watching a college

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basketball game in Ohio. The leaders chatted about the game,

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there's a surprise. Apparently it was not particularly good but not

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that we are bothered about that. Andy wolfed down a hot dog and a

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can of Coke, which is mandatory. -- he wolfed down. Otherwise you get

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stuck in the slammer! We assume he had a refreshing

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night's sleep back in DC but his body clock must have been all over

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the place! David Cameron is due to arrive in the White House this

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afternoon for formal face-to-face talks with the President. We are

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told they will discuss a range of issues including the timetable for

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withdrawing from Afghanistan. Let's go live to Washington, the White

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House, and our political editor Nick Robinson. Tell me, Afghanistan,

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is that top of the agenda and what shape of the discussions likely to

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take? It is. Even though these talks were scheduled long before,

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the recent problems that have beset the Afghan operation, the slaughter

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of six British soldiers and then of course here in the United States

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the real focus on one rogue American soldier massacring a

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series of Afghan civilians, even though the trip was arranged long

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before, these guys needed to talk. They are preparing for a NATO

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summit to be held in Chicago in May. What does it need to do? Fill out

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the detail beneath the headline. The headline says that our boys

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will be home by the end of 2014. That is the message that the Prime

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Minister and the President want to give to their electorate. They have

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not said exactly when and exactly how fast and under what conditions.

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What is interesting is that in recent weeks, the Americans have

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begun to shift forward, to speed up, if you like, a possible withdrawal

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plans. Leon Panetta taught about the -- talked about the Afghans

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taking control towards the end or the middle of next year. That is a

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few months earlier. That would speed up the moment that British

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and American combat troops can come home. The Prime Minister tends to

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do this when you ask him a question. He uses his arm. He says he wants

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to see a gradual reduction in the number of British troops, not to

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see the numbers high and then for of some sort of cliff edge. What

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this means is that by the beginning of 2013, I think they will agree

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today that quite significant numbers will come back. It looks

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like this, tell us if we are right, that they will keep the 2014

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endgame, the final withdrawal, but they would both like to see a

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substantial reduction in British and American troops involved in

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combat operations taking place in 2013. That is what will get

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confirmed at the news conference in a few hours' time. I think you

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should not prepare for detailed answers from them. They will want

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to put that back to the NATO summit in May. There is no doubt that

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there is huge electoral pressure on the President here to have

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something to say about when the boys come home. He wants to go to

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the electorate in November with a positive message, that the

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withdrawal, the ball down, is beginning to start. The British

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cannot afford to be out of step. It is a phrase that the Prime Minister

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likes to use, being in lockstep with the President. What that means

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is, frankly, that Britain's contribution is so tiny compared to

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America. There are roughly 10,000 for the UK and over 100,000 for the

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US. If the Americans start to move on a certain date, we are going to

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start to move on a certain date. That is why when the US Defence

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Secretary made that speech about mid-to-late 2013, the British were

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unsettled, unnerved, and then within a few days the British said

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OK, that is our timetable, too. miss you but it is good to see you

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there. I will try to get you a White House baseball cap. Now you

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are talking! And I will hold on to the Daily Politics mug for you!

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also want some Air Force One chocolates. We are ready to be

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bribed at every opportunity. Thank you for joining us in the early

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hours of Washington as the US capital is waking up.

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On his way out to the United States the Prime Minister had time to

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brief journalists travelling with him on a plan being considered by

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George Osborne to issue 100 year Government bonds. They would mature

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in 100 years' time. Some of us may not be alive by then. They would

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take advantage of record low interest rates that British debt is

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enjoying at the moment. Let's talk to Louise Cooper. I notice that the

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Office of debt management has said they will put this idea out to the

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market. They are not just offering it, they are seeing if there is an

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appetite for it. Will there be if - - and appetite? I don't know. 100

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years is very unusual. In Austria and France, the term is 50 years

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and in Japan it is 40 years. This would be a very bold and brave step

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for the UK Government. We do have some perpetuities, these are bonds

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that pay for ever and you never get your money back. They were issued

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in the period after the First World War and before the Second World War,

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between 1921 and 1946. Really, the only long-dated issue for the UK is

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a 50 year issue which came into the market two years ago. It sold very

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well but 100 years is a different kettle of fish entirely. I can see

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those looking at the long-term horizon would like the certainty of

:08:35.:08:45.
:08:45.:08:45.

the longer term. But his and 50 years long enough for anybody? --

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isn't 50 years long enough? regulator is forcing us a liability

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matching. That means that if you have a 50 year pension liability

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that companies have to pay out, then they have to own assets of the

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same timescale. So absolutely. But I am not convinced that many

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pension companies have 100 year timescales. 50 year debt has gone

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very well. I am not sure that 100 your debt would go equally well.

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Pricing it will be very difficult because there is nothing comparable

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out there on the international markets. Finally, is there any idea

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where you are in the City about what the yield would be about the

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100 yr bonds? The 50 year bond is yielding 3.3% so potentially it

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could be up to 5%. But 100 years, that is a huge risk on the UK

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Government and economy. Who will be in charge in 100 years? One would

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hope that investors would demand a premium for that risk. In the crazy

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world of low interest rates, who knows? Maybe they should issue them

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in Chinese because we might all be speaking Chinese by then. And can I

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say that I have not got a mug! Leave that to me. You get me a 100

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yr Bond and I will get you a mug! Thank you for joining us.

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One do you make of it? I heard Robert Peston this morning querying

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it being a publicity stunt but I have no problem with George Osborne

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exploring this. We have low interest rates and it is worth

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exploring whether we can get lower yields in relation to 100 years

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bonds. We can get a lot of debt a way for 2% at the moment that this

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would be more expensive debt. is exactly why what we are talking

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about is consulting with the market on whether this is a good idea. She

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said there were lots of uncertainties about it. That is why

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there are consultations going on. Also whether Perpetual's would make

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sense. We have to use the strength of our debt market to see if we can

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unlock the existing low interest rates. I understand that, but it is

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not a lower rate if you have to pay higher rates on a 100 yr Bond. In

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the early years you will be paying out higher debt. One of the huge

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costs on the Government purse at the moment is servicing debt. Why

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would you take out debt where you are paying more than you would if

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you took out a shorter term debt? And we have no idea what the

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economy will be like in 50 years. We don't know about next year,

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never mind 100 years. We certainly won't be there! You will be, Andrew.

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That is the bad news for our viewers! What do you think about

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the bonds? That does not seem like a safe bet to me. When it matures,

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you will be beyond caring, I think. The David Cameron's flight to the

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United States turned out to be busy for the journalists. Speaking to

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the press on the plane, David Cameron talk about his plans for

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reform and human rights law. He suggested it was not in the

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coalition Government but if it was he would be going faster towards

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changing human rights laws. The European Court of Human Rights has

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ruled that prisoners should get the right to vote. Plans to reform the

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court would be very difficult to carry out and would risk friction

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and divisiveness in the 47 states signed up to the European

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Convention on Human Rights. Much of the criticism of the court may be

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manufactured by the British popular press. There is a mischievous

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report that since 1966, dealing with the United Kingdom alone, we

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have found violations against the United Kingdom. That was in three

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out of four of all cases brought against the country. This is a

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gross distortion, to my mind, and one that was clearly designed to

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undermine the reputation of our court. Sir Nicholas Bratza giving

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evidence to the Human Rights Committee in Parliament yesterday.

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Mark Harper, he says it is a gross distortion, the way the court is

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being presented. Do you see him as a block to reform? What we have

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said we are going to do, which is agreed on by both parties in the

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Government, is reform. Despite what he says, the 47 countries in the

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Council of Europe have a lot of agreement about speeding up the

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decisions, looking at the recruitment of judges, and dealing

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with the fact the courts have got a backlog of 150,000 cases, which is

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not working. But not reducing the scope, which is what David Cameron

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would like to see. That is the big stumbling block. We have talked

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about the level at which decisions are taken. We have agreed that the

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national court system is why you should predominantly -- where you

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should predominantly deal with human rights. That balance has not

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been right. In a number of cases recently, that has not happened,

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and we are discussing that with the other 46 members of the Council of

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Europe. The hint from David Cameron and the Conservatives is that the

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Liberal Democrats are holding back the Government on this area. Do you

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agree? It is clear that the two coalition parties, and this from a

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different perspective. There are things that we agree on, and we are

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doing this. Reforming the court, the bill of Human Rights. But that

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is in disarray, if you listen to the commission. There are some

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things that the commission do agree on. There will be some things that

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they do not agree on and we will debate those things during the next

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general election campaign and the public will have the opportunity to

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decide what direction the Government should take. And if you

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do not get anywhere with reform, which lots of people are saying,

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should Britain consider pulling out if only for a temporary period of

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time? That is not something we want to do. We are one of the architects

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of the Convention. Britain stands up for human rights around the

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world. The test is getting it right. We want the court and the

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convention to work. That is why we want to work with other countries

:15:28.:15:38.
:15:38.:15:40.

Would Labour like to see this to, but they wouldn't have the power to

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supersede Parliament? There are issues with the European Court

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needs reform. The backlog is important and the quality of the

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:15:58.:15:58.

judges,... How do change that? There are few instances where we

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would be the church. The last time was 1992. -- chair. You speak to

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your 47 partners, work with them are so when it comes to you being

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the chairperson, you have a plan in place. The third issue is the

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margin of appreciation, individual countries getting within the family

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of 47 nations. And saying to the Turkish Supreme Court, and the

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Russian Supreme Court, if a Russian citizen goes to a court, they can't

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now go to the Supreme Court. We think that's a step too far. I just

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want to let you know about a fantastic programme on BBC Two

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tonight presented by someone called Andrew Neil. I have been

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investigating human rights for a programme called Rights Gone Wrong

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which is broadcast on BBC Two tonight at 9pm. Viewers might

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recall my interview with a man called John Hirst, convicted of

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manslaughter and, while in prison, fought the right for prisoners to

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have the boat. That's how the Strasbourg court ruled. -- though

:17:10.:17:20.
:17:20.:17:24.

two. Then parliament voted 10-1 To do you understand, when you see

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human rights rulings have allowed you to claim that it's now time for

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murder is, rapists and paedophiles to celebrate, it risks undermining

:17:34.:17:40.

the concept of human rights in a lot of ordinary people's eyes.

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refer you to the answer I gave a few moments ago. If you can't

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accept the truth of the answer, I'm sorry. The highest court in Europe

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has have voted mayor Droz, rapist, manslaughter, -- murderers, it's

:17:56.:18:01.

not undermining it at all. brought some vegetables afterwards,

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though. Rights Gone Wrong, tonight on BBC Two.

:18:08.:18:11.

When David Cameron and Barack Obama sit down in the Oval Office for

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their official bilateral meeting later today, top of their agenda

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we're told will be the so-called end game in Afghanistan. It is

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still a little bit away, though. Both leaders are keen to see a

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speedy withdrawal of troops. But the question is how quickly can

:18:26.:18:32.

that be done while handing over to the Afghans in an orderly manner.

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That's probably more difficult than most people realise. Yesterday, the

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Prime Minister said Afghanistan will not be a perfect democracy by

:18:40.:18:44.

the time British troops return home. I think we had worked that out. Jo,

:18:44.:18:49.

give us the background to this. in the wake of the killing of 16

:18:49.:18:52.

civilians by a US soldier and the deaths of six British servicemen

:18:52.:18:54.

last week, tensions are running high. The UK currently has just

:18:54.:18:58.

over 9,000 troops in Afghanistan. Last year, David Cameron promised

:18:58.:19:01.

to reduce the number from the original peak of 9,500 by the end

:19:01.:19:06.

of 2012. America is a far bigger player with over 100,000 people

:19:06.:19:10.

stationed there. And President Obama has also already started

:19:10.:19:15.

withdrawing troops. He's said he's aiming to pull out a total of

:19:15.:19:21.

33,000 by this summer. Both are signed up to a ISAF and Nato plan

:19:21.:19:24.

which sees combat forces aiming to leave the country by the end of

:19:24.:19:30.

2014. Subject to conditions on the ground and the rate at which Afghan

:19:30.:19:33.

forces can be trained. But Leon Panetta, Obama's defence chief said

:19:33.:19:42.

David Cameron has talked of not wanting to "See a cliff edge in

:19:42.:19:46.

2014 when all of the remaining troops come out at once." So,

:19:46.:19:50.

Andrew, it looks like the two men will have a lot to talk about today.

:19:50.:19:53.

Thanks, Jo. We've been joined by the Conservative MP John Baron, who

:19:53.:20:01.

sits on the Foreign Affairs Select Committee. What is the mood in your

:20:01.:20:05.

view of the Government backbenchers about Afghanistan at the moment?

:20:05.:20:09.

Great concern, a lot of things going wrong in the short term and

:20:09.:20:12.

is a feeling if we don't have the orderly withdrawal, in certain

:20:13.:20:18.

sections, we could have another Vietnam on our hands if we don't

:20:18.:20:24.

open meaningful, nor unconditional talks with the Taliban. Part of the

:20:24.:20:29.

withdrawal must involve the Taliban? Yes, it's essential. The

:20:29.:20:33.

problem with the mission so far is the under-resourced the task,

:20:33.:20:37.

underestimated and have been playing catch-up ever since. We

:20:37.:20:43.

have confused the mission. Building human rights and democracy. We have

:20:43.:20:47.

confused the enemy because there are fundamental differences between

:20:47.:20:53.

Al-Qaeda and the Taliban. It is not automatic but if we allow the

:20:53.:20:56.

Taliban to remain in control in certain areas, they will allow Al-

:20:56.:21:01.

Qaeda back into the country. have no evidence Al-Qaeda is still

:21:01.:21:06.

there. Good point. The evidence suggests Al-Qaeda left many years

:21:06.:21:12.

ago and we have more for this battle into the Taliban. As we

:21:13.:21:18.

showed in Northern Ireland, you can fight and talk at the same time.

:21:18.:21:21.

Soldiers only by times the politicians must now negotiate

:21:21.:21:27.

otherwise we risk a disorderly end it. What do we talk to the Taliban

:21:27.:21:32.

about? A common ground. There's no love lost between Al-Qaeda and the

:21:32.:21:37.

Taliban. Let's remember why we initially went into Afghanistan, to

:21:37.:21:43.

deny Afghanistan two Al-Qaeda. could say it's job done. But since,

:21:43.:21:50.

the mission has moved into building democracy and human rights. It's

:21:50.:21:55.

confused. We should explore common ground with a Taliban because

:21:55.:21:58.

there's no love lost between them up, although there is different

:21:58.:22:05.

shades of Taliban. In doing so, we would have to accept for example

:22:05.:22:11.

that all this stuff we used to say about the number of girls in school

:22:12.:22:16.

and women in Parliament, that's all going to go, isn't it? To a certain

:22:16.:22:24.

extent, yes. It depends which part of the country they are in control

:22:24.:22:27.

of for so it's important why it's important to focus on the original

:22:27.:22:33.

mission. My understanding is that we are there to protect the streets

:22:33.:22:39.

of the UK and the west from Al- Qaeda. They left many moons ago and

:22:39.:22:44.

we have got to remain clear on what our mission is. Isn't that broadly

:22:44.:22:52.

the Opposition's attitude, as well? There needs to be game-plan. For

:22:52.:22:58.

example, the regional players are crucial. Pakistan, China, very

:22:58.:23:07.

important. What is their stance? Secondly, they in need to be talked

:23:07.:23:16.

to. The Taliban had opened at negotiations in Qatar. They had

:23:16.:23:19.

shown a willingness but the American position so far have been

:23:19.:23:22.

at they will not talk to the Taliban unless they accept the

:23:22.:23:27.

constitution. This may or may not be the right thing to do, it's not

:23:27.:23:34.

for me to say. If we do talk to the Taliban and tried to come to a

:23:34.:23:37.

political settlement, we are handing over at least part of the

:23:37.:23:46.

country to the Taliban. Correct? Yes, by definition. Pakistan is a

:23:46.:23:51.

pluralist society. I don't accept they would revert to what would

:23:51.:23:59.

happen Al-Qaeda was in charge of. The Taliban were in charge. They

:23:59.:24:03.

did a pretty good job of putting women back to medieval status and

:24:03.:24:07.

blowing up Buddhist temples and stoning people they didn't like and

:24:07.:24:11.

be heading others. Your political strategy may be right or wrong, but

:24:11.:24:16.

let's not denied that an element of that would happen again. We have

:24:16.:24:22.

got to talk to them. That would be the consequence. I'm not sure.

:24:22.:24:26.

There needs to be game-plan. You can't have a game plan to withdraw

:24:26.:24:32.

the military by 2014. They need to do with politics. That is the

:24:32.:24:38.

consequence of it. It includes talking to Pakistan. And China and

:24:38.:24:43.

India and the regional players. course we should talk to Pakistan

:24:43.:24:48.

but you don't need to talk too much to Pakistan to know what they want.

:24:49.:24:51.

They prefer the Taliban in there because it's a bulwark against

:24:51.:25:01.
:25:01.:25:03.

India. Their nightmare is India taking over Pakistan. This is the

:25:03.:25:07.

reason why we need to have a clear plan to withdraw but also we can't

:25:07.:25:12.

make the main -- same mistakes are made in the 1980s when the Russian

:25:12.:25:20.

troops withdrew. It's the cliff- edge nightmare scenario. Are we

:25:20.:25:28.

talking to the Taliban already? Answer my question, please. We know

:25:28.:25:33.

from the political discussions the Taliban have made some moves in

:25:33.:25:37.

talking. There will clearly be political discussions going on.

:25:37.:25:42.

we talking to the Taliban? I don't know is the honest answer. That's a

:25:42.:25:48.

good answer. I don't think we are. I think we are looking to the

:25:49.:25:51.

Americans on this and the American position so far is we will not talk

:25:52.:25:55.

to the Taliban unless they accept the constitution and that will not

:25:55.:26:01.

happen. We need to open on conditional talks with the Taliban

:26:01.:26:06.

and that's where the at Americans are failing. I'm going to give you

:26:06.:26:11.

the final word. Our troops are working with the Afghan security

:26:11.:26:15.

forces to make sure they are growing in strength, sufficiently

:26:15.:26:20.

well-trained so when we leave in an orderly manner, they can provide

:26:20.:26:28.

security for their country. According to a noticeable, they

:26:28.:26:32.

have been infiltrated by the Taliban. I'm not sure that is true.

:26:32.:26:36.

The Afghan national army, there is a difference between them and the

:26:36.:26:42.

police force. The Afghan national army has done well. It is right and,

:26:42.:26:48.

unfortunately, Afghan security forces when they are in control of

:26:48.:26:52.

a district have proved themselves almost worthless put up I have a

:26:52.:26:57.

feeling we will be returning to this. Then there will be continue

:26:57.:27:05.

discussions on this in the States. Now it's time for our Guess The

:27:05.:27:09.

Year. We will remind you how to enter in a minute, but let's see if

:27:09.:27:19.
:27:19.:27:25.

you can't remember when this President Gorbachev, tear down this

:27:25.:27:34.

There has not been a storm like this for as long as anyone can

:27:34.:27:44.
:27:44.:28:22.

David Owen at heard the result at his room in that house of Commons.

:28:22.:28:32.
:28:32.:29:02.

-- don't they all look young in Let's take a look at a big banner,

:29:02.:29:11.

time for the week of a For the the price minister is in

:29:11.:29:15.

the USA for his talks with Barack Obama and it means this week we

:29:15.:29:24.

have the battle of the deputies. Last week at Prime Minister's

:29:24.:29:32.

Are you up for it? People don't believe it. It's not that

:29:32.:29:38.

complicated to resolve. This afternoon, it is the battle of the

:29:38.:29:47.

deputies. Nick Clegg and the coalition. Harriet Harman and the

:29:47.:29:57.
:29:57.:29:59.

Labour Party. Who will win the I don at my black silk pyjamas

:29:59.:30:04.

every night and dream of these things. It is time to face the

:30:04.:30:14.
:30:14.:30:20.

Oh, the drama. I'm exhausted just watching that. James Landale joins

:30:20.:30:27.

us. Are the Tory backbenchers going to chair on Nick Clegg today?

:30:27.:30:30.

Tory MP has already been tweeting this will be a target rich

:30:30.:30:35.

environment, what should I ask? Nick Clegg will have to look over

:30:35.:30:39.

his shoulder as much as in front. Presumably Labour will ask as many

:30:39.:30:43.

embarrassing questions as possible to Mr Clegg? Yes, health,

:30:43.:30:49.

unemployment figures, the secret courts, the Justice white paper.

:30:49.:30:56.

European Human Rights. He's not done one of these before for over

:30:56.:31:01.

one year. This is because the Foreign Secretary is in Washington

:31:01.:31:05.

with the Prime Minister. The Deputy Prime Minister does stand-in when

:31:05.:31:12.

he's away normally but when he's away on trips,. He has been up

:31:12.:31:16.

against Harriet Harman once before. He's only done this once or twice

:31:16.:31:23.

before. And against Jack Straw. Harriet Harman was interim leader.

:31:23.:31:28.

This was before Ed Miliband was leader of the Labour Party. The be

:31:28.:31:33.

unemployment figures are out this morning, too. We don't want to miss

:31:33.:31:43.
:31:43.:31:47.

anything. Let's go straight over I have been asked to reply. My

:31:47.:31:49.

right honourable friend the Prime Minister is visiting the United

:31:49.:31:54.

States. I am sure the whole House would like to join me in sending

:31:54.:31:57.

our deepest condolences to the family and friends of the

:31:57.:32:02.

servicemen who died in Afghanistan last Tuesday. Sergeant Nigel Coupe

:32:02.:32:07.

from the Duke of Lancaster's Regiment. Corporal Jake Hartley.

:32:07.:32:12.

Private Anthony Frampton. Private Christopher Kershaw. Private Daniel

:32:12.:32:15.

Wade and private Daniel Wilford, all from 3rd Battalion the

:32:16.:32:19.

Yorkshire Regiment. These men had outstanding courage and

:32:19.:32:22.

selflessness. This tragic incident will long be remembered by our

:32:22.:32:27.

nation because it reminds us all of the immense danger that our armed

:32:27.:32:31.

forces regularly endure to guarantee the safety and security

:32:31.:32:35.

of our country. Mr Speaker, we are also deeply shocked at the

:32:35.:32:39.

appalling news that a number of Afghan civilians were wounded and

:32:39.:32:46.

killed in Afghanistan on Sunday morning. We send our sympathy to

:32:46.:32:50.

the families affected by this terrible incident. I had meetings

:32:50.:32:55.

this morning with my colleagues and others in addition to my duties in

:32:55.:32:59.

his house and I will have further such meetings today. I would like

:32:59.:33:03.

to associate myself with the Deputy Prime Minister's comments about the

:33:03.:33:07.

tragic events in Afghanistan. I am sure that members on both sides of

:33:07.:33:12.

the House will express their deepest sympathies to families that

:33:12.:33:17.

have lost loved ones at this deeply distressing time. Today the Prime

:33:18.:33:22.

Minister is in America where unemployment is coming down... When

:33:22.:33:27.

an implement is coming down and the economy is growing. -- where

:33:27.:33:31.

unemployment is coming down. In Britain, unemployment is at its

:33:31.:33:35.

highest for 17 years and the economy is flats lining. Can the

:33:35.:33:41.

Deputy Prime Minister explain what has gone wrong? What went wrong was

:33:41.:33:48.

the Labour Government for 13 years! Creating the most unholy mess in

:33:48.:33:53.

2008 which we are now having to clear up. The only way... The only

:33:53.:34:00.

way to get the economy moving is to fix the deficit, get banks lending

:34:00.:34:06.

again and have a tax and benefit system that pays people to work.

:34:06.:34:11.

Will he introduce a Freedom Bill to get rid of a lot of bossy and

:34:11.:34:17.

unloved regulations? As my honourable friend knows, we have

:34:17.:34:22.

already introduced a large set of measures, which has removed a lot

:34:22.:34:25.

of unnecessary clutter from the statute book. Any further

:34:25.:34:32.

opportunity to do so, we would grab that with open arms. Harriet Harman.

:34:32.:34:37.

So Mr Speaker, can I joined the Deputy Prime Minister in paying

:34:37.:34:40.

tribute to Sergeant Nigel Coupe of 1st Battalion the Duke of

:34:40.:34:44.

Lancaster's Regiment and from 3rd Battalion the your to regiment,

:34:44.:34:53.

Corporal Jake Hartley, Private Christopher Kershaw, Private

:34:53.:35:00.

Anthony Frampton, Private Daniel Wade, Private Daniel Wilford? They

:35:00.:35:05.

served our country determination. Their deaths remind us of the great

:35:05.:35:10.

sacrifice our servicemen make on our behalf. I joined with the Prime

:35:10.:35:16.

Minister in expressing our horror at the murders in Afghanistan on

:35:16.:35:20.

Sunday of 16 civilians including nine children. We deplore the crime

:35:20.:35:27.

and express our deepest condolences. Today's figures show unemployment

:35:27.:35:30.

up and the hardest hit are young people looking for work and women

:35:30.:35:35.

being thrown out of work. The Deputy Prime Minister says that the

:35:35.:35:37.

Liberal Democrats are making a difference in this Government.

:35:37.:35:45.

With more than 1 million women looking for work, what difference

:35:45.:35:50.

does he believe he has made to those women? Mr Speaker, of course

:35:50.:35:55.

these figures are disappointing, any increase in unemployment is

:35:55.:35:58.

disappointing. It is a personal tragedy for anyone that loses their

:35:59.:36:04.

job and for their families. She should be careful not to pretend

:36:04.:36:08.

that his problem was invented by this Government. The unemployment

:36:08.:36:14.

of women went up by 24% under Labour. Youth unemployment went up

:36:14.:36:22.

by its 40% under Labour. It was remorseless since 2004. We all need

:36:22.:36:27.

to work together to bring unemployment down. Is the Speaker,

:36:27.:36:32.

when we left Government, unemployment was coming down. -- Mr

:36:32.:36:36.

Speaker. Their policy is not only driving up and implement but they

:36:36.:36:40.

will have to borrow more. It is hurting but it is certainly not

:36:40.:36:46.

working. For all his bluster, the truth is that having five Liberal

:36:46.:36:50.

Democrats seated around the Cabinet table has made no difference

:36:50.:36:57.

whatsoever. Listen to what the Business Secretary said on economic

:36:57.:37:04.

policy. This Government has no compelling vision. These days,

:37:04.:37:13.

nobody agrees with Nick. Does he agree with Vince Cable? It is worth

:37:13.:37:18.

looking at the details published on the unemployment statistics. Behind

:37:18.:37:21.

the headline figures, long-term Annapurna actually came down in the

:37:21.:37:28.

quarterly figures. -- long-term unemployment. And importantly, the

:37:28.:37:31.

number of jobs created in the private sector outstripped the jobs

:37:31.:37:36.

left in the public sector. Under her Government, the Labour Party

:37:36.:37:41.

sucked up to the City of London and relied too much on jobs in the

:37:41.:37:44.

public sector. We are having to remedy those mistakes and we are

:37:44.:37:49.

creating new jobs in the private sector. Mr Speaker, he is

:37:49.:37:54.

complacent about unemployment under his Government. The Lib Dems are

:37:55.:37:59.

making no difference on unemployment, just as they are

:37:59.:38:05.

making no difference on the NHS. When it comes to the NHS, the

:38:05.:38:11.

Deputy Prime Minister obviously thinks he is doing a stunning job.

:38:11.:38:16.

Can he explain why he has failed to persuade the doctors, nurses,

:38:16.:38:25.

midwives, paediatricians, fizzy -- physiotherapists and patients?

:38:25.:38:29.

Speaker, the Labour Party used to believe in reform. Now they believe

:38:29.:38:37.

in stopping the NHS of cash and failing to provide reform. Her own

:38:37.:38:42.

manifesto... Order, order. We must hear the response from the Deputy

:38:42.:38:49.

Prime Minister. Indeed. Her own manifesto said, to safeguard the

:38:49.:38:54.

NHS in tougher fiscal Times, we need sustained reform. The Labour

:38:54.:39:01.

Party was right then and from now. What happened? -- and at the wrong

:39:01.:39:09.

now. We are prouder what Labour did when we work Government -- we are

:39:09.:39:13.

proud about what Labour did when we were in Government. And nobody

:39:14.:39:17.

believed him. No wonder he cannot convince those that work in the

:39:17.:39:24.

health service. They cannot even convince his own Government. People

:39:24.:39:32.

are still against this bill because it has not changed one bit. It is

:39:32.:39:37.

still a top down reorganisation. Order, order. I said a moment ago

:39:37.:39:40.

that the Deputy Prime Minister's response must be heard. The

:39:40.:39:43.

question from the deputy leader of the Labour Party must be heard.

:39:43.:39:48.

That is the be-all and end-all of it. Harriet Harman. This bill is

:39:49.:39:53.

still the top down reorganisation and it will cost the NHS of fortune.

:39:53.:39:59.

It will still lead to fragmentation and privatisation. It is clear that

:39:59.:40:02.

the Deputy Prime Minister will not stand up for the NHS. The only

:40:02.:40:05.

thing that to stand up for his when the Prime Minister walks in the

:40:05.:40:15.
:40:15.:40:16.

room. -- he stands up for his when the Prime Minister walks in.

:40:16.:40:20.

Speaker, Mr Speaker... Some of her colleagues must think the Liberal

:40:20.:40:23.

Democrats make a difference because they were handing out leaflets at

:40:23.:40:28.

our conference in Gateshead while their leader was throwing SAK and

:40:28.:40:34.

going to watch Hull play football. -- throwing the sick day. Is she

:40:34.:40:39.

proud of the fact that the Government spent �250,000 of

:40:39.:40:42.

taxpayers' money on sweetheart deals for the private sector that

:40:42.:40:47.

did not help anybody in the NHS? Is she proud of the fact that under

:40:47.:40:52.

the 2006 Act, which a friend worked on, it was a privatise its charter

:40:52.:40:59.

in which a Government offered an 11% premium on the private sector

:40:59.:41:07.

to undercut the NHS? Is she proud of that? We will... A order, order.

:41:07.:41:17.
:41:17.:41:17.

Some members are perhaps not initiated in the ways of PMQs. The

:41:17.:41:20.

Deputy Prime Minister does the answering and that is the situation.

:41:20.:41:25.

Harriet Harman. We will compare what our Government did on the NHS

:41:25.:41:29.

with what his Government is doing any day. He says that the problem

:41:29.:41:33.

with this bill is that doctors and nurses just don't understand it.

:41:33.:41:38.

But the problem is that they do. However, even at this late stage,

:41:38.:41:44.

it is within his power to stop this bill. Next Monday, the bill reaches

:41:44.:41:49.

its final stage in the House of Lords. There are nine to Lib Dem

:41:49.:41:54.

peers, and their votes will decide whether or not this bill becomes

:41:55.:41:59.

law. Will he instruct Shirley Williams and his peers to vote to

:41:59.:42:06.

stop the bill? Mr Speaker, the right honourable lady has invited

:42:06.:42:12.

me to make a comparison. Let me make three comparisons. Order. I

:42:12.:42:16.

say it again. The response must be heard. That is all there is to it.

:42:16.:42:20.

The Deputy Prime Minister. right honourable lady has invited

:42:20.:42:24.

me to make comparisons. The shadow health secretary has said that it

:42:24.:42:29.

is irresponsible to increase NHS spending. They do not believe in

:42:29.:42:34.

more money for the NHS. We do. Comparison number one. They indulge

:42:35.:42:37.

of the private sector with sweetheart deals which we are

:42:37.:42:41.

making a legal in this bill. They one sweetheart deals for the

:42:41.:42:46.

private sector and we do not. They presided over inequality in the NHS,

:42:46.:42:51.

which began we are making a statutory obligation in is built to

:42:51.:42:56.

deliver a more equal at come on the NHS which they failed to deliver in

:42:56.:43:06.
:43:06.:43:07.

13 years. -- in this Bill to deliver a more equal outcome.

:43:07.:43:11.

Absolute rubbish. And in undermining the NHS and making

:43:11.:43:15.

Shirley Williams vote for he has trashed not one but two national

:43:15.:43:22.

treasures. He did not mean to sign the bill, but he did. He could stop

:43:22.:43:27.

the bill, but he went. He says the Lib Dems make a difference, but

:43:27.:43:34.

they don't. What has happened to that fire liberal tradition? They

:43:34.:43:39.

must be turning in their graves. The party of William Gladstone. The

:43:39.:43:44.

party of David Lloyd George. Now the party of Nick Clegg. I know she

:43:44.:43:52.

has a pre-prepared script that she sticks to religiously, but it is

:43:52.:43:56.

worth having a question and answer thing, that is what this is about.

:43:56.:44:00.

What we are doing on this side of the house, the two parties that

:44:00.:44:04.

have come together in the coalition, is to sort out the banking system

:44:04.:44:08.

that she left in a mess. Sorting out the public finances that she

:44:08.:44:13.

left in a mess. Sorting out the economy that she left in a mess.

:44:13.:44:16.

Stopping the offered through privatisation of the NHS, which she

:44:16.:44:23.

left in a mess. -- stopping the arbitrary privatisation of the NHS.

:44:23.:44:27.

In opposition they are running out of ideas. In Government they ran

:44:27.:44:33.

out of money. My right honourable friend may be aware of figures

:44:33.:44:39.

released this week which showed that there has at least been some

:44:39.:44:45.

progress towards the target of 15% of women on boards by 2015. What

:44:45.:44:52.

can our coalition Government do to ensure that they meet this target

:44:52.:44:56.

and enrich our boards with a diversity of talent to achieve the

:44:56.:45:01.

growth that we need as a country? think it is excellent news that

:45:01.:45:04.

there has been real progress in a few short months that we have been

:45:04.:45:09.

in Government. Far more progress than in 13 years under Labour. I

:45:09.:45:12.

think everybody now agrees that there is a real consensus that

:45:12.:45:17.

having women on boards is good for all of the companies involved.

:45:17.:45:21.

There was a woefully a representative mixed on our boards

:45:21.:45:31.

and I hope that we can continue to improve that. -- unrepresentative

:45:31.:45:40.

I hope you enjoyed the support of the police at his conference in

:45:40.:45:46.

Gateshead. When there will be 3,000 extra police you promised at the

:45:46.:45:53.

general-election will be imposed? Mr Speaker, as her own party

:45:53.:46:01.

acknowledges, the police need to make savings. The key thing is, not

:46:01.:46:08.

exactly what the total number is, but where are the police? Or does.

:46:08.:46:12.

I don't know what members are having for breakfast. His answers

:46:12.:46:19.

must be heard. Where police officers are properly deployed. In

:46:19.:46:24.

the last decade, far too many police officers were filling out of

:46:24.:46:27.

paperwork in the back of this rather than on the streets where

:46:27.:46:33.

they belong. Does my right honourable friend share the

:46:33.:46:36.

priorities of my constituents who believe that this Parliament should

:46:36.:46:40.

focus its attention on cutting the deficit, promoting growth and

:46:40.:46:46.

getting people off welfare into work? And would be bemused at they

:46:46.:46:50.

learned we were going to spend much of our time discussing the reform

:46:50.:46:58.

of the House of Lords. How shall I explain that priority to them?

:46:58.:47:01.

suspect in the same way he will no doubt explain to them that there

:47:01.:47:07.

are other priorities like changing the boundaries, of constituents,

:47:07.:47:12.

but I know was close to his heart and his party. Government can do

:47:12.:47:19.

more than one thing at once. I also believe there's a simple democratic

:47:19.:47:23.

principle that people are make the laws of the land should be elected

:47:23.:47:33.
:47:33.:47:33.

by people who have to obey the laws of the land. Mr Speaker... Mr

:47:33.:47:43.
:47:43.:47:43.

Deputy Speaker... Mr Speaker, my apologies. Study after study,

:47:43.:47:50.

services with social care is crucial for older people. That's

:47:50.:47:56.

what's happening in my constituency, so can I ask the Deputy Prime

:47:56.:47:58.

Minister why he is still cheerleading for a Bill which

:47:58.:48:02.

scraps trusts and Corporation and puts the future health of older

:48:02.:48:10.

people, including my constituents, at risk? I am a backing a bill

:48:10.:48:14.

which includes a new statutory obligations to integrate social and

:48:14.:48:21.

health care of. He is quite right. It's one of the abiding failings in

:48:21.:48:27.

the health service, these two services not properly integrated.

:48:27.:48:30.

They haven't been integrated and the last 10 years and that's what

:48:30.:48:35.

we are trying to do now. The Health and well-being board will bring

:48:35.:48:42.

representatives together. Can I begin by congratulating the

:48:42.:48:46.

Government on its efforts to tackle the irresponsible pricing of

:48:46.:48:53.

alcohol by supermarkets. I commend the Government for that but does he

:48:53.:48:59.

agree with me that the safest place to drink is in the community pub,

:48:59.:49:05.

beer is a lower strength a drink, and it would create 5,000 jobs,

:49:05.:49:09.

scrapping the duty escalator, so will he take his colleagues out for

:49:09.:49:15.

a beer and tell them not to put up the duty on the great British pint?

:49:15.:49:18.

All those questions are for the Chancellor to announce at the time

:49:18.:49:23.

of the Budget but I'm sure everyone agrees with his a sentiment that we

:49:23.:49:27.

should support committee pubs with just such an important part of the

:49:27.:49:37.
:49:37.:49:39.

fabric of our communities up and down the country. Mr Dennis Skinner.

:49:39.:49:49.
:49:49.:49:49.

Is he aware that now the gang of four Tories are gallivanting around

:49:49.:49:56.

America, he has got the chance to shine? Now, what does he really,

:49:56.:50:03.

really think about this Murdoch sleaze and the latest developments,

:50:03.:50:09.

the Prime Minister riding borrowed police forces, and playing Andy

:50:09.:50:15.

Coulson in the heart of government, man to man, what does he really

:50:15.:50:20.

think that? I'm giving Emma chance to separate from the ranks of the

:50:20.:50:30.
:50:30.:50:39.

Tories behind him. Come on, be a Order, order! Let's hear the answer.

:50:39.:50:44.

Mr Speaker, we had to wait a while for him to get going, but he was

:50:44.:50:49.

great. I think we are soon going to celebrate, it that the right word,

:50:49.:50:53.

boarded two years of the honourable members presence in this House, and

:50:53.:51:03.
:51:03.:51:04.

then delighted to see, in all that time, he has not mellowed one bit.

:51:04.:51:09.

Will the Deputy Prime Minister join me and my right honourable friend

:51:09.:51:14.

in congratulating the citizens of Chelmsford on their newly acquired

:51:14.:51:17.

status following her Majesty's announcement that Charles would is

:51:17.:51:23.

to be a city? Does he agree that it's entirely appropriate in an

:51:23.:51:28.

Olympic year that Essex's first City should be chosen but it's also

:51:28.:51:32.

looking forward to hosting the mountain biking competition during

:51:32.:51:42.
:51:42.:51:44.

We are aware of the Colchester and Chelmsford rivalry but I can

:51:44.:51:48.

confirm the results of a civic honours competition in honour of

:51:48.:51:53.

the Queen's Diamond Jubilee. Chelmsford, Perth and St Basayev

:51:53.:52:03.
:52:03.:52:04.

have been at awarded to be rights to call themselves a city. I know

:52:04.:52:07.

there will be disappointment in other communities who ended the

:52:07.:52:11.

contest, but I think it's another announcement which lifts the spirit

:52:11.:52:20.

of the nation in the year of the Diamond Jubilee. Before the general

:52:20.:52:26.

election, the Deputy Prime Minister said he was profoundly hostile to

:52:26.:52:31.

the closure of Remploy factories. Now 1,700 disabled people are

:52:31.:52:36.

losing their jobs because of the closure of 36. What difference has

:52:36.:52:46.

he made? As she will know, this is a consequence of review conducted

:52:46.:52:51.

by the head of the UK Disability Forum. Her conclusions are

:52:51.:52:55.

supported by a organisations like mind and Mencap and I don't want to

:52:55.:52:59.

disagree with them, because this is their conclusion and what they

:52:59.:53:04.

think we should be doing. They believe a segregated employment

:53:04.:53:08.

which was started in the aftermath of the Second World War, is not the

:53:08.:53:13.

best way to promote the interests of disabled people in this country

:53:13.:53:19.

in the 21st century. Last weekend, adapted Prime Minister spoke about

:53:19.:53:25.

the need for a tycoon tax. Does the and 10 that to include individuals

:53:25.:53:31.

who claim they want tax on the rich but said of companies that they

:53:32.:53:38.

only pay 20% are not 50% of their income, such as Ken Livingstone?

:53:38.:53:41.

is worth dwelling on the explanation provided by Ken

:53:41.:53:47.

Livingstone for his exotic tax arrangements. I quote from

:53:47.:53:51.

interview he made this weekend. "I get lots of money from different

:53:51.:53:56.

sources and I give it to an accountant and they manage it. That

:53:56.:54:06.
:54:06.:54:09.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. In September 2010, I raised with the Prime

:54:09.:54:12.

Minister the case of a college in my constituency which lost �4

:54:12.:54:17.

million following the closure of the regional development agencies.

:54:17.:54:21.

I ask him for a hand up, not a handout, for young people in my

:54:21.:54:26.

constituency. Lastly, but college was officially opened yet, 18

:54:26.:54:32.

months on, there's no progress in addressing the short ball. There

:54:32.:54:36.

should be no barriers to people's talent and aspiration -- short 4th.

:54:37.:54:41.

Will he give the UN people of West Lancashire a handout? -- a

:54:41.:54:50.

shortfall. Of course we will look into the case of a college. They

:54:50.:54:53.

are unbelievably important providing skills and support to

:54:53.:54:56.

young people seeking to get the right qualifications to get into

:54:56.:55:03.

work. We have been working with a government to provide a hugely

:55:03.:55:07.

expanded apprenticeship programme, the largest ever in our country,

:55:07.:55:16.

and I am prepared to make sure ministers look SHE raises. After a

:55:16.:55:19.

2004 copper because disaster, began Masters licensing authority was

:55:19.:55:29.
:55:29.:55:31.

created. -- cockle pickers. Can you assure me that any cuts in red tape

:55:31.:55:37.

will not lead workers unprotected, in particular the shell fisheries

:55:37.:55:43.

industry? I hear what he says. It an important issue to get the

:55:43.:55:47.

balance right and I know DEFRA is working to make sure the gang

:55:47.:55:52.

masters Licensing Authority works in a manner which has affected and

:55:52.:55:57.

there is down on the abuse. But does so in a business friendly

:55:57.:56:04.

manner, to minimise the amount of unnecessary red tape. I'm sure

:56:04.:56:06.

would up the Prime Minister would like to heartily congratulate the

:56:06.:56:15.

city of Perth for its restoration of city status. He will know that

:56:15.:56:19.

fantastic cross-community support which has led to the restoration of

:56:19.:56:25.

this honour. Can I thank him and his department for organising this

:56:25.:56:32.

competition. Those are the kinds of questions I like. I think it's a

:56:32.:56:36.

good thing, of course, on behalf of everybody in the House, and I would

:56:36.:56:40.

like to convey my congratulations to the people of Perth who have

:56:40.:56:47.

worked on a cross-party basis to get his accolade today.

:56:47.:56:50.

treasured piece of green space near Cheltenham is attracting a lot of

:56:50.:56:55.

sporting attention this week. But other green spaces will be at risk

:56:55.:57:00.

it the national planning policy for framework doesn't follow Germany's

:57:00.:57:04.

example of combining economic success with tough controls to

:57:04.:57:10.

protect the countryside balls can he reassure us a truly green of

:57:10.:57:17.

planning framework is still a safe bet? The Government will be

:57:17.:57:24.

publishing it shortly. I think it's important we do everything to

:57:24.:57:28.

promote growth because we need jobs and new homes for young families

:57:28.:57:32.

who are not able to have a home that they can call their own, but

:57:32.:57:37.

that should be tempered by social environmental considerations and

:57:37.:57:41.

that the balance will be properly reflected in the planning framework

:57:41.:57:48.

when it is published shortly. Monday, the housing minister told

:57:48.:57:51.

me the Government had no plans to introduce rent controls in the

:57:51.:57:57.

private sector. Is he aware that the rising of the private sector

:57:57.:58:01.

rents in central London, capping housing benefit, means many

:58:01.:58:06.

families on benefit are being forced out, a process of social

:58:06.:58:10.

cleansing. Will he give a commitment to the Government will

:58:10.:58:16.

examine the case for private sector rent control? As he knows, are at

:58:16.:58:20.

the same time as announcing the restraint on the housing benefit

:58:20.:58:25.

budget, which was a commitment in his own party's manifesto to bring

:58:25.:58:31.

that part of the benefits system under control, with a major fund to

:58:31.:58:36.

deal with hard cases. We have unveiled a number of measures which

:58:36.:58:40.

should lead to a sick of a good increase in affordable homes bought

:58:40.:58:43.

up it's the lack of supply or affordable homes which is the

:58:43.:58:49.

problem in London -- are significant. Changes to child

:58:49.:58:55.

benefit will mean a single income family earning �43,000 a year and

:58:55.:58:58.

one parent stays at home to care for children will subsidise a

:58:58.:59:06.

couple earning over �80,000. Does he think this is fair? I think it

:59:06.:59:12.

is there that someone who is earning far beyond the average

:59:12.:59:16.

should not be subsidised with child benefit from people are much lower

:59:16.:59:20.

income support of he raised a perfectly valid point which is the

:59:20.:59:27.

cut-off point can create these anomalies which you can have one

:59:27.:59:32.

earner on a 40 Preet �1,000 having child benefit removed while a two

:59:32.:59:37.

earners earning �80,000 will not. We were looked at implementing this

:59:37.:59:43.

in a sensitive manner. The DUP the Prime Minister will be aware of the

:59:43.:59:47.

Series incidents been my constituencies including explosives

:59:47.:59:53.

planted on Friday, adjacent to schools. Will he condemn those

:59:54.:59:59.

things which bring misery to the committee and can be sure of a

:59:59.:00:03.

house in the absence of the international monitoring commission,

:00:03.:00:07.

they will monitor any linkage between such activity and

:00:07.:00:14.

proscribed organisations? The Of course I utterly condemn the

:00:14.:00:18.

cowardly attacks in East Belfast which endanger the lives of all

:00:18.:00:24.

those areas, including young children attending school. A

:00:24.:00:29.

totally reprehensible bring. I understand these attacks are being

:00:29.:00:39.
:00:39.:00:41.

investigated and has no remit that these are terrorist attacks. The EU

:00:41.:00:47.

is presently consulting on changes to the rules governing the state

:00:47.:00:53.

aid in assisted areas. The Government has shown commitment to

:00:53.:00:55.

Northern Lincolnshire by establishing an enterprise zone in

:00:55.:01:02.

order to attract a larger business. The changes will restrict aid. Can

:01:02.:01:10.

he assure me the Government will fight these proposals?

:01:10.:01:13.

delighted that the enterprise zone in north Lincolnshire is now taking

:01:13.:01:20.

shape and it will be a huge boost for investment from major investors

:01:20.:01:24.

in renewable energy, in that part of the world love. I hear what he

:01:24.:01:28.

says about the reviews about the rules being applied for regional

:01:28.:01:34.

aid of. We are extremely mindful we don't want those rules to undermine

:01:34.:01:40.

the excellent work taking place in North Lincolnshire. The Ministry of

:01:40.:01:45.

Justice announced today that it had given two new contracts worth �30

:01:45.:01:50.

million of public money. This company has been under

:01:50.:01:53.

investigation by the police, the Department of work and pensions,

:01:53.:01:57.

the Public Accounts Committee, and since I had been raising concerns

:01:57.:02:02.

about it, I have received 15 the e- mails, public alleging a bad

:02:03.:02:07.

practice and fraud. Will it the public continued to give them

:02:07.:02:12.

public money? She raises a serious issue. The police investigation

:02:12.:02:17.

into the allegations of fraud where contracts entered into by the

:02:17.:02:24.

previous government. We have now launched hour alone audit of the

:02:24.:02:29.

existing contracts which they have received from government and if

:02:29.:02:34.

there is any evidence of systematic abuse, we will end contact with

:02:34.:02:42.

them. The six British servicemen killed in Afghanistan last week

:02:42.:02:46.

will be repatriated next Tuesday. And would include three of my

:02:46.:02:55.

constituents. At this difficult time for the families, or will the

:02:55.:02:57.

Deputy Prime Minister assure me and my constituents everything is being

:02:57.:03:03.

done by the Government to support the families? I know how strongly

:03:03.:03:07.

he must feel about this terrible accident it. Three of his

:03:07.:03:11.

constituents have sadly lost their lives. The MoD would wish to

:03:11.:03:18.

confirm with him that they would do everything they can to make sure

:03:18.:03:25.

the bodies are returned to the families as soon as possible.

:03:25.:03:28.

the Deputy Prime Minister consider the implications of the Treasury's

:03:28.:03:34.

planned changes in the controlled foreign companies are rules? They

:03:34.:03:38.

will in cent advise multinationals having recourse to tax havens.

:03:38.:03:45.

Opening this new tax rule is estimated to cost developing

:03:45.:03:49.

countries �4 billion in much needed revenue and the Exchequer here, �1

:03:49.:03:54.

billion. World this invidious change be corrected in forthcoming

:03:55.:04:01.

Budget measures? He raises an important issue. I have spoken to

:04:01.:04:05.

campaigners on this myself and I know action Aid has been speaking

:04:05.:04:09.

to Treasury ministries as well. It's incredibly complicated ones

:04:09.:04:14.

you get into the detail but it's something which was not dealt with

:04:14.:04:19.

in the last 13 years which we are now prepared to look into. Will my

:04:19.:04:23.

right honourable friend join me in welcoming the launch today of the

:04:23.:04:27.

Government's adoption action plan which sets out how we can achieve

:04:27.:04:31.

more adoptions, more quickly? Does he agree that making adoption work

:04:31.:04:37.

well everywhere should be the priority of everywhere who have the

:04:37.:04:41.

interests of of vulnerable people at heart? It is so frustrating for

:04:41.:04:45.

couples and parents who want to adopt children and not good for the

:04:45.:04:49.

children concerned when they are in order that delays and that is why

:04:49.:04:56.

it's a very good thing this seems to be a general consensus recently,

:04:56.:04:59.

Prime Minister to accelerate the adoption process and it will now

:04:59.:05:07.

indeed happen. Is it right that when your constituent it took a

:05:07.:05:11.

young daughter to the Indy and later received a letter from the GP

:05:11.:05:16.

saying the but it was inappropriate and also reminded of the costs of

:05:16.:05:23.

up to visit, is this the future of the NHS under this government where

:05:23.:05:26.

elderly and bomber will people are going to be scared to ask for

:05:26.:05:32.

treatment? Of course not, and that letter was issued under the current

:05:32.:05:40.

system. He does touch on a very serious issue which not only we

:05:40.:05:45.

face in this country but every single developed society around,

:05:45.:05:50.

faces bore for we have health care systems are not designed for a mass

:05:50.:05:53.

of the ageing population where a large number of older people have

:05:53.:05:57.

chronic conditions and spent much longer in hospital than before and

:05:57.:06:02.

that's why we need to make sure they are kept strong in their homes

:06:02.:06:05.

and in their communities support for that is what this NHS bill is

:06:05.:06:11.

all about. Students at comprehensive schools are just as

:06:11.:06:15.

likely to study A-level history as their private school counterparts.

:06:15.:06:22.

However, only half as likely to study maths and physics. What is

:06:22.:06:25.

the Government going to do about the social mobility issue that we

:06:26.:06:35.

had in the sciences? Does he support the proposed as Sir Isaac

:06:35.:06:36.

Newton at Maths School in north book to address this issue? It's an

:06:36.:06:41.

important point. It's all the reasons why the new English back

:06:41.:06:45.

Laura places emphasis on those scientific disciplines and why we

:06:45.:06:50.

have protected the science budget in order to send out a clear system

:06:50.:06:56.

that we value sciences for the that's why we place an emphasis on

:06:56.:06:59.

a young youngsters take not maths and science for our collective of

:07:00.:07:09.
:07:10.:07:11.

He says the health bill would be going through unamended without the

:07:11.:07:14.

Liberal Democrats, but will he listen to people up and down the

:07:14.:07:17.

country that know the real truth? The Tories would not be getting

:07:17.:07:25.

their shambolic bill at all without him and his MPs propping them up.

:07:25.:07:35.
:07:35.:07:36.

would have thought he would welcome legislation that gets rid of the

:07:36.:07:39.

practice of sweetheart deals for the private sector which his party

:07:39.:07:49.
:07:49.:07:51.

Harriet Harman went to begin with on the unemployment figures which

:07:51.:07:56.

were out this morning. They showed another rise. But then moved on to

:07:57.:08:01.

the NHS where we had a number of exchanges. I'm not sure it added

:08:01.:08:06.

too much of to the some of your knowledge on this issue. But Labour

:08:06.:08:10.

continuing to oppose the NHS reforms and urging the Government

:08:10.:08:14.

to drop the whole Bill entirely. I think they both survived to fight

:08:14.:08:24.

another day. First we are going to There was a bit of ping-pong about

:08:24.:08:29.

the style of both deputies today. This on Twitter, Nick Clegg giving

:08:29.:08:34.

Harriet Harman a rough time. Nick Clegg every week, police. This

:08:34.:08:38.

email. I was pleasantly surprised with Nick Clegg's performance at

:08:38.:08:45.

PMQs. He made Harriet Harman look like an amateur. And this on

:08:46.:08:51.

Twitter, stop whining about the mess and start governing. And this

:08:51.:08:55.

on Twitter, Cameron is eating hot dogs while the back bed and Tory

:08:55.:09:00.

MPs give Nick Clegg a kicking. Not as many as expected of those,

:09:00.:09:07.

perhaps. And on the Mile, Harriet Harman has shown Ed Miliband how to

:09:07.:09:17.
:09:17.:09:17.

handle PMQs. -- on email. There were relatively few questions for

:09:17.:09:22.

Nick Clegg. Yes, this was very benign. He normally get hostile

:09:22.:09:27.

flat from all over the house. Remarkably steady this time. Only

:09:27.:09:31.

two a really difficult questions, one from Peter Lilley about why the

:09:31.:09:35.

Government should bother with Lords reform when there are more

:09:35.:09:38.

important issues and also the question of child benefit and

:09:38.:09:44.

dealing with it. The rest of it was remarkably benign. The two issues

:09:44.:09:48.

that Harriet Harman chose to go on, the health service and the economic

:09:49.:09:52.

policy, they are two issued that the Liberal Democrats and the

:09:52.:09:56.

Conservatives are broadly in alignment on. Therefore I think it

:09:56.:10:00.

was difficult to drive a wedge through the Conservatives and the

:10:00.:10:04.

Liberal Democrats on that issue. looked reasonably confident and his

:10:04.:10:07.

performance was reasonably assured, I think most fair-minded people

:10:07.:10:12.

would say. I agree with that. It is the first time he has done one of

:10:12.:10:17.

these, standing in for the Prime Minister, for well over a year.

:10:17.:10:20.

Clearly that time in Government of absorbing the material, going to

:10:21.:10:25.

the meetings, doing more Deputy Prime Minister's Questions every

:10:25.:10:28.

month, that means you get better at these things and you get more used

:10:28.:10:32.

to it and you are better able to deal with whatever is thrown at you.

:10:32.:10:36.

The criticism thrown against him in the early days was that he would

:10:36.:10:39.

get too tetchy and his own irritation would show. He has

:10:39.:10:46.

clearly worked on that. He had the few good lines in terms of

:10:46.:10:52.

attacking Ed Miliband for his sick day over the weekend. I think he

:10:52.:10:58.

will be quite satisfied with that. Are you going to throw a big party

:10:58.:11:02.

when health bill becomes law? It has been a nightmare for you.

:11:02.:11:07.

has been difficult in Parliament. When we had the debate about it

:11:07.:11:11.

yesterday and Andrew Burnham was challenged to save what it was that

:11:11.:11:14.

he was opposed to in the bill, and he could not tell us. The health

:11:14.:11:19.

bill is full of things that Labour was in favour of in opposition,

:11:19.:11:28.

social care working with health care. Taking bureaucracy out of the

:11:28.:11:31.

doctors' hands and into the public's hands. Labour cannot tell

:11:31.:11:36.

us what they don't like about it. Rebels are always more attractive

:11:36.:11:42.

to the press than the opposition. But Labour has made the running. It

:11:42.:11:45.

seemed to be with the grain of public opinion, which does not

:11:45.:11:49.

really like the reforms. Public opinion does not usually like

:11:49.:11:54.

public service reforms to begin with. You have not just said that

:11:54.:11:58.

this would make the NHS was, you have not just said that we do not

:11:58.:12:01.

like it and it would be more bureaucratic and more difficult,

:12:01.:12:05.

you have said it will destroy the NHS. You have said it will

:12:05.:12:10.

privatise the NHS and it is the end of the NHS as we know it. If by

:12:10.:12:13.

2015 it is still functioning roughly the way that it does now,

:12:13.:12:18.

that is a problem. We hope that the NHS does function. Nobody wants to

:12:19.:12:23.

see patients suffering for political advantage. The shore. But

:12:23.:12:27.

the NHS will be very different. If there is a postcode lottery,

:12:28.:12:35.

millions of pounds spent on reorganisation, if hospitals get

:12:35.:12:38.

private patients which means waiting lists grow longer, if GPs

:12:38.:12:42.

are compromised into choosing profit over patients. All of these

:12:42.:12:46.

things will mean that the NHS that we know and what we were raised on

:12:46.:12:54.

will be very different. Some of these changes are already taking

:12:54.:12:58.

place and that is why we have seen these exchanges in PMQs. What do

:12:58.:13:06.

you say to that? The things that people value about the NHS, being

:13:06.:13:10.

treated based on need and not ability to pay, that is absolutely

:13:10.:13:15.

staying in place. What about waiting list times? She cannot

:13:15.:13:20.

afford waiting-lists to go up, can you? They are not, they are going

:13:20.:13:25.

down. We do not have to look at what Labour would do for comparison.

:13:25.:13:29.

My constituency is on the border with Wales. In Wales, where Labour

:13:29.:13:32.

is in Government, they are cutting spending on health, waiting lists

:13:32.:13:39.

are twice as long. Welsh Labour was against the reforms of Tony Blair

:13:39.:13:45.

Labour as well. In it is a very good example. If you want the

:13:45.:13:48.

health service to be successful, you have to put the money in, which

:13:48.:13:53.

we are, and you have to reform it, which we are. Labour have put the

:13:53.:13:57.

money in Government and throw it away in opposition. You work with

:13:57.:14:00.

Nick Clegg in the Cabinet Office. Let me ask you about the

:14:00.:14:04.

constitutional side since we have got you here. You saw that question

:14:04.:14:08.

from Peter Lilley about the House of Lords reform. How much

:14:08.:14:14.

resistance is there to House of Lords reform on the Tory

:14:14.:14:18.

backbenches? Some people are not keen on it but lots of people agree

:14:18.:14:21.

with the central proposition that people that make laws should be

:14:21.:14:25.

elected. Lots of people on that programme have discussed the House

:14:25.:14:30.

of Lords and welfare and the health bill. When you challenge appears on

:14:30.:14:37.

that central proposition, they do not defend it. -- challenged peers.

:14:38.:14:42.

They pretend that they do not make the law and they just offer advice.

:14:42.:14:46.

That is rubbish. We can deal with the deficit, we can reform welfare,

:14:47.:14:51.

and we can make our Parliament more democratic. You can do more than

:14:51.:15:00.

one thing at to time. I understand that. I was more interested in the

:15:00.:15:06.

process. The impression that I get one I talked to Tory MPs is that

:15:06.:15:14.

there is no real enthusiasm for this. -- when I talk to Tory MPs.

:15:14.:15:18.

They just wish it would go away. You will have to whip them through

:15:18.:15:25.

big time. It was in our manifesto in 2001 and in 2005 and 2010. It is

:15:25.:15:27.

clearly true that the Liberal Democrats are more enthusiastic

:15:28.:15:31.

than we are but lots of Conservatives think the House of

:15:31.:15:34.

Lords should be more democratic, and when you point out there are

:15:34.:15:38.

800 of them, they get paid, they are former MPs, actually having

:15:39.:15:43.

fewer is something that the public would agree with. It is not at the

:15:43.:15:48.

top of their list of priorities. Has Labour made up its mind? We do

:15:48.:15:51.

not know the nature of the reforms exactly but it is a working

:15:51.:15:57.

assumption that it will be staged towards an 80% a elected Lords. Has

:15:57.:16:03.

Labour made up its fight if it wants to go along with that? --

:16:03.:16:07.

made up its mind. It must be tempting to oppose it. Our policy

:16:07.:16:11.

is clear. We believe the second chamber should be fully elected. We

:16:11.:16:15.

need to resolve the issue of what powers they had. And what should be

:16:15.:16:25.
:16:25.:16:32.

The draft Bill publish last year had huge problems with it. We will

:16:32.:16:39.

see at the committee can improve it. The problem with doing that, if

:16:39.:16:45.

you're going to make a huge changes, the way to do it is by doing it

:16:45.:16:55.
:16:55.:16:55.

with consensus rather than papering over the tracks. They know they

:16:55.:16:59.

might do little but was at the general election. A balance of

:16:59.:17:04.

power? Many people say, this is an opportunity to mess up the

:17:04.:17:10.

Government's programme. Let's do what we can. I think from a twinkle

:17:10.:17:14.

in his eye, that's the way he's going for so there are many in the

:17:14.:17:21.

Labour Party... I just like watching the House of Commons

:17:21.:17:25.

reform. What do sent to Conservative backbenchers who say,

:17:25.:17:32.

I'm not going to work for this? If we have a second elected chamber,

:17:32.:17:36.

there will be able permanent balance of power in a high and as

:17:37.:17:42.

of the Lib Dems? Firstly, in the last Parliament before the

:17:42.:17:46.

coalition government, the Lib Dems had a balance of power under the

:17:46.:17:53.

existing system. I set out the case for why actually, having a House of

:17:53.:17:56.

Lords elected, where you want a wide spread of opinion, actually

:17:56.:18:00.

works very well the House of Commons were used to draw the

:18:00.:18:09.

Government based on first-past-the- post. 15 year terms of a lot longer

:18:09.:18:16.

than... Less than life. It would be up to the public and the way they

:18:16.:18:20.

voted in the general election. It depends how many people vote for

:18:20.:18:30.
:18:30.:18:31.

them. That's totally logical. Now we will move on. James, banks of

:18:31.:18:36.

being with us. George Osborne has had plenty of advice ahead of his

:18:36.:18:39.

Budget next week. Should he drop the 50p tax rate? Introduce a

:18:39.:18:41.

Mansion Tax? Hit high earners with pension changes? Whatever he

:18:42.:18:44.

decides on tax, Tim Montgomerie, the editor of the Conservative Home

:18:44.:18:54.
:18:54.:19:09.

website, wants the Chancellor to If I were the Chancellor, my

:19:09.:19:14.

biggest focus would not be the eurozone, and the deficit. It would

:19:14.:19:20.

be the rise of China and other new economies. Up until recently, China

:19:20.:19:26.

had no high-speed rail. Now they have as much as Europe, and soon as

:19:26.:19:30.

much as the whole world of. Half of all degrees are awarded in China,

:19:30.:19:35.

Singapore and Japan are for Science and Engineering. In Britain, it is

:19:36.:19:40.

under one third. The number of elevations in China is up by 1,000%

:19:40.:19:46.

but it is falling here. In order to compete, I know what we have to do.

:19:46.:19:56.
:19:56.:20:00.

Unpopular things but necessary We need a new airport in the south-

:20:00.:20:04.

east of England. Replace employment laws would stop firms from taking

:20:04.:20:08.

on extra workers. Pace science teachers more than geography

:20:08.:20:13.

teachers, we need profit-making schools, privatise roads. And we

:20:13.:20:19.

need to link the retirement age to life expectancy. I'm told by spin

:20:19.:20:23.

doctors that these are impossible unpopular things to do. But

:20:23.:20:27.

sometimes, the things which are not right for a politician are right

:20:27.:20:31.

for the country. There's no point doing these things at half measures,

:20:31.:20:36.

just like there is no point dieting one day and pinching the next. If

:20:36.:20:39.

we are going to make a difference, we might as well do all of these

:20:39.:20:44.

things and that's what I would do. I would end axe every single one of

:20:44.:20:50.

his unpopular measures. My great Britain plan will be a climb to

:20:50.:20:55.

more jobs, higher incomes, and prosperity for everyone. And Tim

:20:55.:21:00.

Montgomerie joins us in the studio. As we were just saying, you're not

:21:00.:21:04.

the Chancellor. Perhaps you would not be an acting of these unpopular

:21:04.:21:10.

ideas. Why do you think that list you read out, profit-making,

:21:10.:21:15.

privatising roads etc, would transform the long-term prospects

:21:15.:21:19.

of this country? Like with any reform, and this is the main thing

:21:19.:21:26.

I wanted to communicate with that a video, NHS reforms, unless the

:21:26.:21:31.

public first double think there is a problem, it's hard to end at any

:21:31.:21:35.

reform which is why I talked about the innovation in China, they

:21:35.:21:40.

invest so much in infrastructure. Once we understand the nature of

:21:40.:21:44.

the competitiveness we face as the country and the risk to jobs and

:21:44.:21:51.

income, then there will be a hunger for the radical reforms I suggest.

:21:51.:21:55.

I'm happy to go through each one of them. George Osborne has often

:21:56.:22:00.

talked about the rise of emerging countries, and China, so he

:22:00.:22:03.

obviously has identified the problem but has not come to the

:22:03.:22:07.

same conclusions as you. What makes you think he would look up these

:22:07.:22:13.

ideas, when the main aim of the Government is reducing the deficit?

:22:13.:22:16.

Vince Cable wrote a letter last week where he said he thought the

:22:16.:22:19.

Government lacks a compelling message. I think there is a danger

:22:19.:22:24.

of that, yes, because if you ask the average person what they think

:22:24.:22:31.

the Government is about, they will say it's about the big society, and

:22:31.:22:38.

deficit cuts. I think a big message that it's about competitiveness and

:22:38.:22:44.

growth is a better method of the Government should focus on. The do

:22:44.:22:48.

you like any of those proposals which have been listed? The I'm not

:22:48.:22:52.

going to go through them. It's a matter for the Chancellor to

:22:52.:22:59.

respond to. Do you like a new airport? What Tim is right about

:22:59.:23:02.

his it is about competitiveness. We have talked about being more

:23:02.:23:07.

competitive abroad. That's why we talk more about the Commonwealth

:23:07.:23:11.

now and some fast-growing countries and a lot of what the Chancellor

:23:11.:23:15.

will be talking about is making us more competitive ness, which is why

:23:15.:23:21.

we encourage companies to... Don't you need to take a more radical

:23:21.:23:28.

look at? There is certainly an appetite to take difficult

:23:28.:23:31.

decisions. We have spent the last two years making difficult

:23:31.:23:38.

decisions, not always popular, but necessary. If ideas come forward we

:23:38.:23:42.

conclude will have those effects which are unpopular, we have to

:23:42.:23:46.

make the case to people. The are what about dropping the 50 p tax

:23:46.:23:51.

rate? The Chancellor will set out our views on that next week and has

:23:51.:23:55.

commissioned research allowed how much money it raises. The priority

:23:55.:24:02.

is to help low income families have more money in their pocket. In my

:24:02.:24:07.

constituency, I doubt anybody pays the 50 pence tax. I'm concentrating

:24:07.:24:12.

on the thousands of people for the you have to earn over one and in

:24:12.:24:21.

the �2,000. -- �150,000 a year. I want to focus on modest families. I

:24:21.:24:27.

want to cut taxes for them to make their lives easier. It won in by

:24:27.:24:33.

people aged between 16 and 24 are not in work, training, education,

:24:33.:24:37.

our ability to compete is diminished, not enhanced. America,

:24:37.:24:43.

India, Brazil, you have an active industrial policy creating jobs and

:24:43.:24:47.

growth. You don't talk about the importance of what the Government

:24:47.:24:54.

can do to stimulate growth when it is flat lining. We are going to

:24:54.:24:58.

come to America. While David Cameron is rubbing shoulders with

:24:58.:25:01.

Barack Obama in America, Ed Miliband tried to show that he is

:25:01.:25:04.

the true ally of the President on Monday when he talked about the US

:25:04.:25:10.

economy. Here's what he said in his pre-budget press conference. Labour

:25:10.:25:14.

warned 18 months ago that cutting too far and too fast would not work.

:25:14.:25:19.

And we, and other economists, have been proved correct unfortunate

:25:19.:25:23.

leak in what we said would happen. If you look at what is happening

:25:23.:25:29.

with Barack Obama, in the USA, growth is stronger, and, indeed,

:25:29.:25:35.

jobs are being created much more quickly in that economy. The result

:25:35.:25:37.

of him taking a different approach. The first thing George Osborne

:25:37.:25:42.

should do is change course. A Ed Miliband calling for a change of

:25:42.:25:46.

course. He points to America saying growth is on its way, unemployment

:25:46.:25:53.

is on its way down, but its debt is unbelievably high, borrowing costs

:25:53.:25:58.

are up because they lost their triple-A rating, so it's not

:25:58.:26:01.

exactly clear to say if we follow the path of the USA, Britain would

:26:01.:26:09.

do better. EU countries also have no groat or you can try to

:26:09.:26:14.

stimulate growth by getting policies. -- growth. You're more

:26:14.:26:18.

likely to do that if people are paying taxes and national insurance

:26:19.:26:23.

rather than out of work. It's difficult when you see a better

:26:23.:26:28.

picture Look Now the unemployment statistics than here. What you

:26:28.:26:33.

don't do is sold a borrowing problem by spending more money and

:26:33.:26:40.

giving up fiscal control -- solve the. Sir Nicol forebears is across

:26:40.:26:42.

the country they need to keep borrowing costs low so they can

:26:42.:26:50.

continue to invest and create jobs. We are still creating more jobs

:26:50.:26:55.

than are being lost the public sector. Part-time jobs. But not

:26:55.:27:00.

able to keep up with the losses. There are more jobs in the private

:27:00.:27:04.

sector than being lost in the public sector. There are more

:27:04.:27:10.

people in employment today than in May 2010. Can David Cameron learn

:27:10.:27:19.

anything from Barack Obama? I agree with him on the debt is at issue.

:27:19.:27:23.

That Continent is bogged down by the eurozone problems but America

:27:23.:27:31.

is not anywhere near so connected. We cannot solve a debt crisis by

:27:31.:27:38.

increasing our debt. In terms of looking further afield, if the

:27:38.:27:41.

Chancellor thought he wouldn't be able to do anything, because his

:27:42.:27:45.

inner coalition... One of the great things about the coalition in the

:27:45.:27:51.

beginning is they had the rose garden moment where we had welfare

:27:51.:27:56.

and education reforms, the vote on the Alternative Vote and raising

:27:56.:28:00.

the tax threshold and I think we need another moment like that where

:28:00.:28:07.

the Lib Dems stop fighting over small issues and go bold again.

:28:07.:28:13.

It's not worth the paper they are written on. Attacking the Lib Dems

:28:13.:28:19.

will not do you any good. If you read what Nick Clegg said, to get

:28:19.:28:26.

his Senate, David Cameron could have said it exactly. Don't confuse

:28:26.:28:32.

good Lib Dem activists with Billie Dove. Thank you. No time to pick

:28:32.:28:35.

the winner of the guests the air competition. We will try to do that

:28:35.:28:43.

tomorrow. The answer was 1987. Mrs Thatcher's second landslide of.

:28:43.:28:52.

Tune in tomorrow. We thank all of our guests. The One O'Clock News is

:28:52.:28:56.

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