Browse content similar to 25/05/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good afternoon and welcome to Daily Politics. The last one for a couple | :00:43. | :00:48. | |
of weeks as the Commons heads off for, yes, yet another holiday. Fill | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
your boots while you can, because today we are looking at Scotland, | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
where a campaign for yes to independence kicked off this | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
morning. It is promising not just politicians, but celebrities. Yes, | :01:00. | :01:06. | |
celebrities. Who do they think they are, This Week? | :01:06. | :01:12. | |
To Jeremy Hunt's conduct during the BSkyB bid is still under scrutiny. | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
We have the latest from the Leveson Inquiry. | :01:15. | :01:20. | |
Nick Clegg insists that people premiums and only his intervention | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
will revolutionise social mobility in this country. -- early years | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
intervention. Is he right? The Government is thinking again | :01:28. | :01:33. | |
about slapping VAT on static caravans. We think about nothing | :01:33. | :01:40. | |
else. We will bring you news of a quiet revolution in Yorkshire. | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
All that in the next hour. Public service television at its finest. | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
With no supplement on your licence fee! With us for the duration, he | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
is late, probably with a hangover, the founder of the West London Free | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
School, I can see him in the studio, so bring him in, sit him down and | :01:59. | :02:05. | |
sat him about for being so late. Why are you so late? Traffic. | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
Jubilee and Olympic preparations. The should have made allowance for | :02:08. | :02:14. | |
that. Go to the back. The Daily Telegraph's very own Mary Riddell | :02:14. | :02:21. | |
as well, perfectly on time, came by tube. No problem with her. Thank | :02:21. | :02:27. | |
you. Let's start with the Leveson Inquiry into the standards and | :02:27. | :02:32. | |
ethics of Her Majesty's Press. No wonder it is going on for so long! | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
This morning's papers make uncomfortable reading for Jeremy | :02:35. | :02:43. | |
Hunt. He argued that BSkyB should take full -- Rupert Murdoch should | :02:43. | :02:49. | |
take full control of BSkyB. But speaking on ITV, yes, sometimes you | :02:49. | :02:55. | |
get politics on ITV, he continued to be backed by David Cameron. | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
was not what he has said in the past but how he was going to do the | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
job. If we look at how we did the job, he looked for independent | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
advice, he took it and did it in a thoroughly proper way. This is like | :03:07. | :03:14. | |
a love letter coming to you from Jeremy Hunt about the Murdochs. The | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
point is that he was getting his quasi-judicial role. He was going | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
to decide. How could he be impartial when you knew that he was | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
such a fan? He did act impartially because he took independent advice | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
at every stage and he acted impartially. I had not wanted to | :03:31. | :03:38. | |
give anybody the job. I had wanted the existing Business Secretary, | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
Vince Cable, to do the job. That was the Prime Minister on ITV | :03:42. | :03:48. | |
earlier this morning. How does it work out that you fire Vince Cable | :03:48. | :03:54. | |
from this process because he is biased against Rupert Murdoch, and | :03:54. | :04:01. | |
you hired Mr Hunt, biased in favour of Rupert Murdoch? Well, that is | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
the million dollar question, isn't it? That is what the Prime Minister | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
has to answer. I think already the focus has moved slightly away from | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
Jeremy Hunt. It is fascinating, this email traffic, and the fact | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
that they were texting each other dozens of times a day. Not Jeremy | :04:18. | :04:24. | |
Hunt personally second but his special adviser and Fred Michel, | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
Murdoch's man. The real question for Cameron is how can you possibly | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
appoint somebody when it is absolutely clear from the memo that | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
was revealed yesterday, that he was not only supportive of Rupert | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
Murdoch and his bid, but absolutely Maasai and making his support. | :04:41. | :04:49. | |
There was no doubt whatsoever. Having fired Vince Cable for being | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
somewhat opinionated in the opposite direction, also, as far as | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
I understand it, Gus O'Donnell, who cleared Jeremy Hunt to take | :04:58. | :05:07. | |
charge... The Cabinet Secretary? Indeed. He has no knowledge of this | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
emerge. There are real questions of justice there. In the Prime | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
Minister's defence, who was he going to take the decision to? It | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
was the offers that Jeremy Hunt held which made in the appropriate | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
figure. Who else could it have been? Ken Clarke? It is not the | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
Pope, it is not the Queen. It is not the majesty of the offers that | :05:30. | :05:39. | |
is important. Why not the Pope? at the office. It is the individual | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
holding the post that has to decide. It is clear that he was not | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
impartial in this quasar judicial role. I agree that it was a problem | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
for Cameron because he had to give the job to somebody. But to go | :05:52. | :05:58. | |
right ahead with Jeremy Hunt, I think, well, as it is turning out... | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
I don't think Jeremy Hunt has necessarily acted in appropriately. | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
He was within his rights to express an opinion when it was not his task | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
to make a decision. He had been advised by officials not to. So he | :06:12. | :06:17. | |
was sailing close to the wind. kind of knew what Vince Cable | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
thought beforehand. And Jeremy Hunt. And most people have an opinion on | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
that. The difficulty that the Government faced was that they have | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
to task a senior politician with making this decision. They could | :06:28. | :06:34. | |
not give it to an official. So who do you task with it? The obvious | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
person is the Secretary of State for business, and if he rules | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
himself out by saying something stupid to a journalist, the most | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
obvious person is the Secretary of State for the Department for Media | :06:44. | :06:53. | |
and Sport. In 2003, a lot of things that Rupert Murdoch feared it did | :06:53. | :07:01. | |
not appear in that Act. And now the same thing is happening. They would | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
have got their way on BSkyB if the Milly Dowler story had not come out | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
at the last minute. I suspect that governments will be supping with a | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
long spoon when it comes to Murdoch land. I would have thought so. I | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
completely agree with you. Everybody got too close, well, most | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
people got too close to Murdoch. This was the atomic bomb of media | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
ownership as far as the take-over was concerned. It was the biggest | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
in British history. The entire media industry was very worried | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
about it, simply because it appeared to ride roughshod. We need | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
to move on, but young Adam Smith. Not the Economist from Scotland, | :07:40. | :07:47. | |
because he died a while ago. This young chap, he resigned. When you | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
listen to his testimony, yesterday afternoon and this morning to | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
lovers and, he is playing it so straight. It begs the question why | :07:54. | :08:01. | |
he resigned if everything he said is true. -- this morning to the | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
Leveson Inquiry. You get the impression that he was forced to | :08:04. | :08:11. | |
fall on his sword and savers of's political career. -- saved his | :08:11. | :08:18. | |
boss's political career. Now it is time for the daily quiz and I know | :08:18. | :08:25. | |
you love it. Our question is this. Toby Young, the late Toby Young, | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
recently challenged a leading politician to a drinking contest, | :08:28. | :08:34. | |
because he has got nothing else to do. And he lost! The journalist | :08:34. | :08:40. | |
losing to a politician! He was the politician? William Hague, John | :08:40. | :08:47. | |
Prescott, Nigel Farage, or toughest of the lot, Louise Mensch. My money | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
is on her! At the end of the show, he will fess up and tell us what a | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
big girl's blouse he really was. Earlier in the week, the Government | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
was forced to publish the Beecroft Report, which proposed | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
controversial changes to our employment laws, including allowing | :09:02. | :09:07. | |
what is called no fault dismissal as for underperforming workers. | :09:07. | :09:13. | |
Basically, if you don't like them, you can get rid of them. A group of | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
MPs called the Free Enterprise Group, the clue is in the name, are | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
publishing their own plan to reform Britain's labour markets. They see | :09:20. | :09:25. | |
this as essential to withstand the economic shock that Greece crashing | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
out of the euro will inevitably cause. They are calling it Plan E | :09:31. | :09:40. | |
for Euro-X it. Probably Plan E for emergency would make more sense. -- | :09:40. | :09:46. | |
the euro exit. The plan is for people earning under �10,000 a year | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
would be tax-exempt. They think the minimum wage should be frozen for | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
three years. But they say that workers would receive a rise in | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
real incomes because they would not have to pay it national insurance. | :09:59. | :10:04. | |
Business would be encouraged to take on workers, and they would | :10:04. | :10:10. | |
like to see the fear factor removed from hiring people. Not the fear | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
factor from getting fired! And most controversially, companies with | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
fewer than 10 workers would be exempt from unfair dismissal laws. | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
At least for new employees. And they want to pat the kind of | :10:22. | :10:29. | |
payouts that you can get for unfair dismissal or discrimination at work | :10:29. | :10:37. | |
at around �50,000. -- cap the payouts. You get around �50,000 at | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
the moment, but if it is discrimination for race and gender | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
and things like that it can be much more, but that is unusual. They | :10:43. | :10:49. | |
discuss this with MP George Eustice, one of the co-authors of the report. | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
And from the TUC, head of a quality and Employment Rights, Sarah Veale. | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
Lay out your stall. Why do you think this needs to be done? | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
reality is, if you look at the eurozone at the moment, countries | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
in the eurozone so that they want to stay in the eurozone, but they | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
are not prepared to do what is required. Germany do not want to | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
write the big cheques that are required. Let's not go through the | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
eurozone. Let us seen Greece comes out. Why would this make a | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
difference to our ability to survive it? -- let's assume that | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
Greece come out. It will have an impact on our exports and on the | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
Government's strategy. You have to redouble your efforts to get growth | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
going in our economy. The real reason this economy is not growing, | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
I suggest, is not the lack of flexibility in the labour markets. | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
There may or may not be. But by international standards we are | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
pretty flexible. The reality is that there is no demand in the | :11:49. | :11:55. | |
economy and this would not create demand. Let him answer. If you look | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
at the last decade, it Government spending has gone up from 40% to | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
50% of GDP. The economic freedom indexes that are done | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
internationally, we have slipped down to 81, so a huge amount could | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
be done here. You cannot just borrow money to stimulate growth, | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
have to create the conditions for growth to happen. I think we should | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
purge these fair weather policies that have grown up over the last 10 | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
years. There is a problem with the European labour market, including | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
Britain, and it is a long-term one and we have seen it over 30 years. | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
The more it has been regulated with rights and controls and so on, and | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
the more taxes that have been levied on it to pay for social | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
charges and the rest, the more long-term unemployment we have | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
created and the more youth unemployment. I don't think there | :12:43. | :12:48. | |
is any evidence that there is a causal link between regulation and | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
the success or otherwise of an economy. So why does the eurozone | :12:52. | :12:57. | |
have permanently high unemployment? All sorts of reasons that are not | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
related to the Beecroft Report. That is about protection for | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
employees. I am not talking about that. I am talking about over 30 | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
years the European governments increasingly regulating the labour | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
markets and taxing it, and social charges in France are sometimes 60 | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
or 70% of wages. You should not be surprised if people do not want to | :13:17. | :13:22. | |
Emperor people. In France or in the UK? There is not a particular | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
problem in France that does not occur in other countries. Each | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
country has separate labour laws, which impinge on employment rates | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
or not. In the UK there has been extraordinary yo-yo ring in terms | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
of up from the floor between governments of different political | :13:36. | :13:41. | |
persuasions. But there is no evidence to suggest a causal link | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
between employment regulation and demand of unemployment. There is | :13:45. | :13:53. | |
just their evidence. -- and the amount of unemployment. In Germany, | :13:53. | :14:00. | |
the consequence was that unemployment overall came down. In | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
particular, they are the only European country with no youth | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
unemployment problem. They have a very different economy. The thing I | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
would say about the labour relations in Germany, they have | :14:11. | :14:17. | |
something called co-determination. Employers determine working | :14:17. | :14:23. | |
conditions, broadly. Whatever they do on dismissal law is small. The | :14:23. | :14:29. | |
Beecroft Report proposal to do miss people at whim, -- to dismiss | :14:29. | :14:38. | |
people and when, is appalling. you in favour of that? I am in | :14:38. | :14:40. | |
favour of rules against discrimination but the concept of | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
unfair dismissal is unique to Britain. It is a problem and | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
employers do raise this as an issue if you talk to them. They have to | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
go to tribunals. What you really need is a grown-up conversation. If | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
a member of staff is falling behind... Are but it could be an | :14:57. | :15:02. | |
unequal conversation between the boss and the worker. There are sham | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
consultations for redundancy at the moment. They are not sham. They are | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
not. They are quite often sham. They encourage the conversations | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
that you are advocating. I don't agree. If you talk to employers, | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
they always cite this as an obstacle. Lots of them did, | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
actually. Lots of employers are perfectly happy with the employment | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
relations system. There are some highly successful employers in the | :15:26. | :15:36. | |
:15:36. | :15:40. | ||
UK perfectly happy with a lightly You are claiming that this | :15:40. | :15:49. | |
regulation costs 100 billion a year. You made that up? I can't remember | :15:49. | :15:56. | |
where that figure came from. It is a big figure. It is a big figure, | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
but the burden of regulation is a huge problem. You can't borrow your | :16:01. | :16:07. | |
way out of beds. A business department did a survey of | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
businesses, and employment regulation came number six, below a | :16:11. | :16:17. | |
range of other issues. The working time directive alone cost us 3 | :16:17. | :16:25. | |
billion a year. Only 97 billion to go! There are a lot more than 97 | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
regulations. Commonsense dictates that if you remove some of the | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
obstacles that face employers, they are more likely to take on new | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
employees. That addresses your point about how to create demand in | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
the economy. It reduces the welfare bill and increases the amount of | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
people able to spend money. would not take people on if there | :16:44. | :16:51. | |
was not demand in the first place. If demand is not increasing, which | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
isn't, why hire anybody other than as a replacement? Plenty of | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
employers say they would be willing to take people on if there was less | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
regulation of the labour market. Unemployment is falling in America | :17:02. | :17:10. | |
because their labour market is much less regulated. In George's report, | :17:10. | :17:15. | |
in one respect, I agree with him. If Greece does leave the euro, and | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
it is still an if, the effects on Britain will be much more severe | :17:19. | :17:25. | |
than anyone has realised. But as to what you do to make this country's | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
economy stronger, it comes back to what Andrew was talking about, | :17:29. | :17:36. | |
which was demand and supply. There is little evidence that by getting | :17:36. | :17:41. | |
tougher on workers and cutting red tape, it will make much difference. | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
We have two models. One is some of the things you are talking about, | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
George, and the Beecroft report. The other report this week from the | :17:50. | :17:55. | |
IMF, which goes much more towards demand, would recommend more | :17:56. | :18:04. | |
quantitative easing and some tax cuts, but boosting demand at. It is | :18:04. | :18:09. | |
not that the whole of the Beecroft report is disreputable. I agree | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
that industrial tribunals need looking at. But the line that Sarah | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
talked about, which was redacted from the final version, the idea | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
that a few people will lose their jobs because their employers don't | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
like them, but that is a price worth paying, er that speaks of a | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
callousness that goes beyond economics. | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
The report also talks about setting up infrastructure laws. There is | :18:33. | :18:41. | |
evidence that if you invest... one has any idea what | :18:41. | :18:46. | |
infrastructure bombs means. If the euro does break up, you will have a | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
flight of the capital from the Eurozone to the UK. If you could | :18:49. | :18:55. | |
capture that in a special -- sensible way, you could put it into | :18:55. | :19:00. | |
infrastructure. * An back from the substance and tummy as and analyst, | :19:00. | :19:07. | |
is any of this going to happen? are making a clear argument that it | :19:07. | :19:14. | |
should. But how will it happen? Government has changed the | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
timescale through which people can take something to an industrial | :19:17. | :19:22. | |
tribunal. But if you are an employer and you can't make up your | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
mind after two years whether something is any good -- whether a | :19:25. | :19:31. | |
person is any good, maybe you shouldn't be an employer. But what | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
if somebody does well in one job but that is no -- Ben is moved to | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
another job, and they fail in that job? There are systems to deal with | :19:39. | :19:46. | |
that. One of the most compelling arguments For sacking people on | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
site is that if the Lib Dems throw any more spanners in the works when | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
it comes to these good measures, Cameron could say OK, Vince Cable, | :19:53. | :20:03. | |
on your bike. And it is really going to happen(!). Some report in | :20:03. | :20:08. | |
the Times today that if Greece does exit the euro, a lot of Tory | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
backbenchers will want and in or out referendum. Is that true? | :20:11. | :20:18. | |
Greece comes out of the euro, you will probably need a new treaty. | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
And would that trigger a referendum in the UK? My view is that we | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
should use our time in government to negotiate a new deal with the | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
European Union. Things are in such a state of flux that there might be | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
appetite for a sensible discussion about what the EU should look like, | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
and then you renegotiate and put that to the British people. Good | :20:38. | :20:43. | |
luck getting that past Nick Clegg. What do you make of Nigel Farage's | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
offer that when you have got a strong Euro-sceptic and a UKIP | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
candidate, he should run as a single candidate? They always had | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
this sort of talk when elections come. I was a UKIP candidate, and I | :20:56. | :21:00. | |
left because I want to get away from that. That is not what I | :21:00. | :21:08. | |
believe we should be doing. People are saying UKIP are strong. That is | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
why the Conservative Party has to articulate a clear vision about the | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
future of the European Union. it is not doing that? It is | :21:16. | :21:22. | |
starting to do that. Where is the evidence? The EU bill. We now have | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
a bill in the UK which would require a referendum if anything | :21:25. | :21:30. | |
changed. That is process, not substance. The David Cameron vetoed | :21:30. | :21:36. | |
the EU treaty. We are never sure that he did. He vetoed that treaty. | :21:36. | :21:41. | |
The treaty went ahead. As an inter- governmental treaty between those | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
in the Eurozone. David Cameron is between a rock and a hard place. He | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
is told he is lecturing when he tells them what they need to do, | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
and when he does not tell them, he is told he is aloof. We have to | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
move on. Now, a week from now the country | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
will be gearing up for a weekend of celebrations to mark the Queen's | :22:01. | :22:06. | |
Diamond Jubilee. Sadly, the powers that be reckon you would rather | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
watch that than another episode of the Daily Politics, so we will not | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
be on. No tears. But never one to miss a bandwagon, Adam has been | :22:13. | :22:19. | |
holding his own street party seven days early. | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
Welcome to a bargain-basement Daily Politics Jubilee street party. If | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
we were having one, this would be a good spot, because on the Sunday of | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
the Jubilee weekend, there will be a massive flotilla on the river and | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
then her Majesty will come for lunch in Westminster on Tuesday. We | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
have our guess from the all-party parliamentary group on the Jubilee, | :22:37. | :22:42. | |
and Adrian Evans, the pageant master for the Jubilee pageant. | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
Adrian, will be pageant be as good as this? Who have fully a bit | :22:47. | :22:53. | |
better and louder. It should be amazing. It should be one of those | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
events we will look back on in history and think it was an | :22:56. | :23:03. | |
extraordinary thing to have achieved. How big is this flotilla | :23:03. | :23:13. | |
going to be? There will be 1000 boats. They will pass from Putney | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
all the way through to the Thames barrier in the east. Give us an | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
idea of how big a logistical challenge it is? It has been | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
extraordinary. I have worked on this for two and a half years. | :23:24. | :23:29. | |
Early on, I discovered that the river goes up and down by seven | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
metres twice a day. It shifts backwards and forwards at a rapid | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
rate. The bridges are a different shape from one to another. Getting | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
all those boats to do what they are supposed to do has been a | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
logistical nightmare. We have not done something like that for a | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
while, but it has been a regular feature throughout history. | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
have to look back 150 years ago for the lord mayor's show, which was | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
played out on the Thames every year in November. But the great royal | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
pageants go back a few hundred years. That was when the Thames | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
itself was the grand boulevard, the place that if you want to make a | :24:06. | :24:12. | |
great impression, that was the place to do it. What is the All | :24:13. | :24:18. | |
Party Parliamentary Group doing? The exciting thing we did was, we | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
built a stained-glass window which will go up in Westminster Hall | :24:21. | :24:26. | |
opposite her Majesty's father's stained glass window, which has her | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
coat-of-arms and commemorates the Diamond Jubilee. I am excited to be | :24:30. | :24:35. | |
here and shake the hand of the man in charge of this pageant. It will | :24:35. | :24:41. | |
be wonderful, because we do these things better than any country. | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
Around the world, countries pay billions to create that sort of | :24:45. | :24:53. | |
iconic moment. We do it in an understated and elegant way. On the | :24:53. | :24:59. | |
third assumed -- 3rd June, we will deliver that. Will there be Jubilee | :24:59. | :25:05. | |
fever then, because the MPs will be on holiday? They will be in recess. | :25:05. | :25:13. | |
They are working hard. Of course! will be here. Others like my | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
children, who could not get tickets, will be somewhere along the river, | :25:18. | :25:26. | |
watching this fantastic pageant, with the royal family on the boats | :25:26. | :25:31. | |
themselves. There will be street parties all over every town and | :25:31. | :25:36. | |
village. It will be a wonderful celebration. The terrace over there | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
must be a good spot to watch it from. In it will be an | :25:40. | :25:45. | |
extraordinary place to see it. The boats are coming from all over the | :25:45. | :25:53. | |
UK. It really is a People's pageant. It is an accumulation of enthusiasm, | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
passion and interest on the water. I should say some campaigners | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
against the monarchy will be holding some protests during the | :26:01. | :26:07. | |
weekend, but I don't think their sandwiches will be as good. | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
What will you be doing for the Jubilee? I think I will have a hard | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
job persuading my children to turn out for the Diamond Jubilee, | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
because we had a bad experience in Dartmouth on Sunday at the Olympic | :26:19. | :26:24. | |
torch relay. My seven-year-old son was really excited about it. It was | :26:24. | :26:29. | |
just a parade of sponsors. There was one bus after another with | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
Samsung, Lloyds TSB. They tried to get the crowd to chant Coca-Cola. | :26:34. | :26:38. | |
The torch relay itself was an elderly blind Frenchman with two | :26:38. | :26:44. | |
human crutches, crawling along at a snail's pace, almost an aftermath - | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
- an afterthought to the main event, which was these buses throwing out | :26:48. | :26:54. | |
plastic tat. Chariots of fire, it wasn't. But her Majesty will not be | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
chanting Coca-Cola. She will go down the Thames on a barge. And I | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
am sure it will be more impressive. By the time they get around to the | :27:02. | :27:08. | |
proper ceremonial, whatever you think, the British do do that sort | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
of thing fantastically well. This whole idea of monarchy and how | :27:12. | :27:17. | |
people are going to celebrate it is interesting. I will not be out with | :27:17. | :27:24. | |
the bunting, but if you think that in 1946, George VI, the Queen's | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
father, apparently 3% thought he was doing a good job, the same as | :27:28. | :27:34. | |
Joseph Stalin in 1946. Whereas now, the monarchy was popular in the | :27:34. | :27:40. | |
'80s, but if you look at the Queen's approval rating, it is plus | :27:40. | :27:47. | |
78, as opposed to David Cameron's at -12 and Ed Miliband on minus 11 | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
and Nick Clegg on minus 27, so she must be doing something right. It | :27:50. | :27:56. | |
is not a good time to be a Republican. It is not. I am not a | :27:56. | :28:01. | |
republican, I am a staunch monarchist, and I am sure the West | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
London Free School will be doing a lot to celebrate. | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
The Government is promising a decision later this summer whether | :28:08. | :28:13. | |
it will go ahead and impose VAT on static caravans. George Osborne | :28:13. | :28:18. | |
announced the measure in the Budget, but it has caused a near revolt in | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
Yorkshire where, not all people know this, almost all Britain's | :28:22. | :28:27. | |
static caravans are made. I knew it, because Alan Johnson told me. He is | :28:27. | :28:35. | |
an MP from there. The timing of the government's VAT | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
announcement could not have been worse for the owners of this | :28:39. | :28:43. | |
leisure park in east Yorkshire. After weathering floods in a | :28:44. | :28:48. | |
recession, they had just invested �5 million in new facilities, | :28:48. | :28:54. | |
including an indoor pool, spa, Jim and golf simulator. But then came | :28:54. | :29:01. | |
the news that all new holiday homes sold here will be hit by an average | :29:01. | :29:07. | |
of �6,000 in VAT costs. Somebody from London goes out and buys a | :29:07. | :29:13. | |
second home. They pay 1% stamp duty. Yet we are asking the hard-working | :29:13. | :29:20. | |
couples to now find 20% extra for a holiday home. 30,000 now becomes | :29:20. | :29:27. | |
36,000. We can't afford to absorb the VAT, so it has to go somewhere. | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
The National Caravan Council estimates that the decision to add | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
20% VAT on to the cost of static caravans will lead to more than | :29:36. | :29:41. | |
4000 job losses at holiday parks across the country. More than 1400 | :29:41. | :29:47. | |
in manufacturing and 1500 at suppliers, adding up to more than | :29:47. | :29:57. | |
:29:57. | :29:57. | ||
manufacturing workers in Beverly fear for their future. The company | :29:57. | :30:01. | |
has ridden out the recession well, and for the Government to levy a | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
20% increase on VAT, it is mind- blowing. The government are doing a | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
campaign on the TV at the moment for people to holiday in Britain, | :30:09. | :30:14. | |
so they should back the caravan industry. We are part of the | :30:14. | :30:19. | |
tourism industry. Politician has from all sides have united against | :30:19. | :30:24. | |
the so-called caravan Tax. A recent vote in the House of Commons saw | :30:24. | :30:29. | |
the biggest Tory rebellion since student tuition fees, but is the | :30:29. | :30:38. | |
Government in the mood to It is right that we tried to deal | :30:38. | :30:42. | |
with static caravans fairly and consistently with other products, | :30:42. | :30:45. | |
but we want to listen to the concerns about the impact, and we | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
want to listen to exactly how this would work and what the borderline | :30:48. | :30:53. | |
would be. They used to be a fantastic fishing industry in the | :30:53. | :31:00. | |
UK. Especially in Hull. Government decisions have killed it. It feels | :31:00. | :31:05. | |
like they are doing the same again with the caravan industry. I think | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
in five years' time, we will look back and so that we had a five- | :31:09. | :31:16. | |
month manufacturing industry. -- say that we had a thriving | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
manufacturing industry. One decision will kill it off. | :31:20. | :31:22. | |
Government insists that the proposals are fare, but thousands | :31:23. | :31:28. | |
have signed the cross-party petition calling for them to think | :31:28. | :31:34. | |
again. Within the last 24 hours, there has been a change in the mood | :31:34. | :31:39. | |
music on all of this. Yesterday in the Commons, the business Minister | :31:39. | :31:43. | |
Greg Barker suggested that it was quite possible that they would do | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
some kind of U-turn after rule. You get the impression that this is one | :31:47. | :31:51. | |
of the schemes that the Treasury has in its bottom drawer. They may | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
have tried to slip it through when Labour was in power but they had | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
better political and 10 I, and this time they did get it through. | :31:58. | :32:04. | |
of the things that would never have got past Gordon Brown. -- better | :32:04. | :32:11. | |
political antenna. There are difficulties in the North, at the | :32:11. | :32:16. | |
moment, but it is also a presentational disaster. The pasty | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
tax, the granny tax, all the rest of it. Some of these things have | :32:20. | :32:24. | |
some merit, not all of them. You could certainly make a very good | :32:24. | :32:30. | |
case for the granny tax. But they are sold as if George Osborne had | :32:30. | :32:38. | |
taxed bald nurse or hypoallergenic dogs. -- text being bald. He could | :32:38. | :32:44. | |
not have courted less popularity. Everybody loves caravans in Britain. | :32:44. | :32:52. | |
As long as they are not in front of you on the road! Yes! On that | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
excellent film, when you listen to these people in the North of | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
England, they are making things, working hard, in employment, making | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
things that people want to buy. And they find themselves on the wrong | :33:05. | :33:10. | |
end of Government. Something has gone wrong. It is catastrophic. I | :33:10. | :33:18. | |
blame the Lib Dems. We saw the Damian McBride block. -- blog. The | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
Government produced his wish-list of various taxes that he and Gordon | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
Brown used to batter way. But George Osborne announced quite late | :33:26. | :33:31. | |
in the day that they wanted to cut the top rate of tax. So Danny | :33:31. | :33:34. | |
Alexander and his team looked at what they could ask for in return. | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
Funny you should ask, we have got this list. That is what the Lib | :33:38. | :33:43. | |
Dems demanded as the price of the tax cut. You can tweet and let us | :33:43. | :33:48. | |
know if you are to blame, Lib Dems. The battle for hearts and minds in | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
Scotland gets under way today as those hoping for a yes vote in a | :33:52. | :33:57. | |
referendum on Scottish independence launched their campaign. There has | :33:57. | :34:02. | |
been a blizzard of rhetoric from both sides of the argument, but | :34:02. | :34:05. | |
will any economic facts be introduced before Scottish people | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
have to make up their minds, probably in the autumn of 2014? We | :34:10. | :34:17. | |
said they did to his natural habitat to find out. -- we sent | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
David. The Rob Roy, Scottish pub in the | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
heart of London. The gaffer Jones added is the unofficial embassy and | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
in a few years' time there could be a real one. -- do gaffer jokes that | :34:30. | :34:36. | |
it is the unofficial embassy. Should Scotland be part of the | :34:36. | :34:38. | |
United Kingdom? As a public service broadcaster, I would love to bring | :34:38. | :34:42. | |
you the full economic facts and figures about what that would mean | :34:42. | :34:46. | |
for the UK as a whole and for Scottish people. I would love to | :34:46. | :34:51. | |
but I cannot. And more worryingly, neither can anybody else. It is not | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
possible now to say whether in 10 years' time Scotland would be | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
better off as part of the union of separately. Not definitely better | :34:59. | :35:04. | |
of or worse-off. Incredibly uncertain. Not only that, but you | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
try finding figured that both sides of the debate actually agree on. I | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
have tried it and felt like I have had a night on the hard stuff. But | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
there is a desire to give Scottish people something definitive to go | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
on. Too much of the debate has been wrapped up in a certain and the | :35:19. | :35:27. | |
process of the referendum. -- in assertions. Lots of people want to | :35:27. | :35:32. | |
know what would actually happen. Here is the good news. The | :35:32. | :35:34. | |
Institute of Fiscal Studies are keen to undertake research that | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
they hope will provide some of the answers. The bad news is that even | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
their figures will depend on what happens to the black stuff. Not | :35:41. | :35:47. | |
that! The oil. If you look at the tax revenues including North Sea | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
oil, then their fiscal position is not very different to the rest of | :35:50. | :35:55. | |
the United Kingdom. If you ignore North Sea oil and then the Scottish | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
situation is worse than the rest of the UK, then oil plays a crucial | :35:59. | :36:04. | |
part in the figures. With oil, Scotland is at least as well off as | :36:04. | :36:09. | |
the rest of the UK from a budgetary point of view. So whose oil is it | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
Anyway? At the moment we don't even know that. And if it remains | :36:13. | :36:18. | |
disputed, who decides? If Scotland and England are going to continue | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
as autonomous countries, then they will be sovereigns, and you cannot | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
force sovereigns to solve the dispute. But they are under | :36:26. | :36:31. | |
obligation to resolve any disputes without the use of force. Hopefully | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
they would submit their dispute to the arbitration tribunals. They | :36:34. | :36:40. | |
would tackle the questions submitted to them. From state | :36:40. | :36:48. | |
practice, that can take between two-and-a-half and 10 years. | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
Internationally respected think- tank admit there are more questions | :36:51. | :36:56. | |
than answers. So will anything be clear ever? There are no definitive | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
answers on what Scotland might look like after independence. There | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
would be a long ago station about how you share National that, North | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
Sea oil, defence spending. There is not a single answer about which bit | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
of that is Scotland and which bit is for the rest of the UK. There is | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
no single answer and the question that will remain after independence, | :37:15. | :37:20. | |
after a vote on independence, is how that that association will come | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
out. The one thing that we do know that we know is that the biggest | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
decision that got and takes in centuries may well be made before | :37:27. | :37:32. | |
its people are in full possession of the economic facts. -- that | :37:32. | :37:36. | |
Scotland takes. From yes campaign, Blair Jenkins, | :37:36. | :37:43. | |
the former editor of BBC Scotland and STV. Have you started this | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
campaign so early because the boat is not until 2014 because you are | :37:47. | :37:56. | |
so far behind, 2-1, against independence? Hello. I think there | :37:56. | :37:58. | |
is a tremendous job to be done over the next two-and-a-half years to | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
allow people in Scotland to at all the questions they want to ask and | :38:02. | :38:10. | |
get all the answers to make is important decision. The great thing | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
that has happened today, and it has been an electrifying event, has | :38:15. | :38:21. | |
been a tremendous way to start the campaign. But you concede that 2 -1, | :38:21. | :38:28. | |
Scottish people are against what you want? I think if the opinion | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
polls are saying different things. There is a very large sector of the | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
population who have not made up their mind. I talk to people in all | :38:36. | :38:41. | |
walks of life in Scotland, business, sport and elsewhere. I think that | :38:42. | :38:45. | |
an awful lot of people are at the point where they are going to vote | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
for independence or are heading in that direction and are waiting to | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
be persuaded. I think the job for the campaign over the next couple | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
of years is to nudge the people in Scotland in the direction in which | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
they want to travel anywhere. They are on this journey and they want | :38:58. | :39:04. | |
to be nudged. If you cannot win the argument now, when can you? The | :39:04. | :39:07. | |
Tories are almost irrelevant in Scotland now and the Lib Dems are | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
in meltdown. Labour Party has been on the back that until very | :39:11. | :39:18. | |
recently. -- the back foot. There is an SNP landslide, the country is | :39:18. | :39:22. | |
in recession, and your country has a war chest of millions. If you | :39:22. | :39:29. | |
cannot win now, when can you? A think we are going to win. You are | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
not winning the argument at the moment. I think we are winning the | :39:32. | :39:38. | |
argument. One of the things that we can see right around the world now, | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
in this country and elsewhere, is that very often people are making | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
up their minds on big boat, presidential elections and things, | :39:45. | :39:51. | |
pretty late in the day. -- big votes. And we have seen some | :39:51. | :39:55. | |
results quite late in the campaign. I absolutely believe, and this is | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
my own experience and I have seen data to back this up, that there is | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
a large sector of the population in Scotland that has not made up their | :40:02. | :40:07. | |
minds, but they are willing to be persuaded. It is the wrong | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
perception to think that opinion in Scotland has calcified into those | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
in favour and those against. It certainly has not and there is | :40:13. | :40:18. | |
everything to play for. This team has just come onto the pitch today. | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
I am sure there is everything to play for, but the opinion polls | :40:21. | :40:26. | |
have been quite consistent. Often less than a third are in favour of | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
your side of the argument. There are also two other things that are | :40:30. | :40:35. | |
difficult for you. 30% of Scottish Nationalist voters are against | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
independence! They vote SNP but they are not in favour of | :40:39. | :40:43. | |
independence. And only 27% of women are in favour of independence. That | :40:43. | :40:52. | |
is a hill to climb. You are referring to today's opinion poll, | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
but there are different opinion polls and much depends on what is | :40:55. | :41:00. | |
being asked, as with all opinion polls. But the truth is, I mean, | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
you and I live and work in the political media bubble, that | :41:03. | :41:10. | |
village, and we follow these things very closely, but most folk are not | :41:10. | :41:13. | |
paying a great deal of attention to this at the moment. But they | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
certainly will become engaged in what is going to be a campaign, a | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
movement, over the next couple of years, the scale of which people | :41:21. | :41:25. | |
will never have seen on these islands. I know you do come here | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
sometimes, but just watch. And we will. Can you clarify one issue for | :41:30. | :41:34. | |
me? It is quite important for the future and defence of these islands, | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
which we are all part of, with an independent Scotland be part of | :41:38. | :41:44. | |
NATO? I am not going to give you an opinion on that. Why not, it is | :41:44. | :41:49. | |
quite important? As you know, I come from a broadcasting background | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
and I am not used to this sort of platform. It is the first time I | :41:53. | :41:58. | |
have ever expressed an opinion about anything. I understand but | :41:58. | :42:03. | |
the linchpin of our communal defence is the membership of NATO. | :42:03. | :42:09. | |
People are pledged to come to our aid should we be under attack. If | :42:09. | :42:15. | |
Scotland is independent, will we or will we not be part of NATO? | :42:15. | :42:18. | |
think that is a very valid question and it needs to be addressed over | :42:18. | :42:23. | |
the next two-and-a-half years. I think the weight of opinion that is | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
here today is behind the idea that whatever decision we are making, | :42:27. | :42:31. | |
about NATO, the currency, anything else, that the people best place to | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
take those decisions for Scotland of the people living in Scotland. I | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
think policy decisions, including important ones about NATO | :42:40. | :42:43. | |
membership, are for another day. Not today. They certainly need to | :42:43. | :42:47. | |
be dealt with between now and the day of the vote. I can give you a | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
personal view, and I am open to the argument. I do not have a fixed you | :42:51. | :42:56. | |
and I would like to hear both sides. Was it not a mistake to launch the | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
campaign in a cinema where the double bill is The Dictator and | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
Dark Shadows? You know Scotland well enough to know that cinemas | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
play an extraordinarily powerful role in Scottish life. We are in | :43:09. | :43:15. | |
Edinburgh, but Glasgow had at one time the highest number of cinemas | :43:15. | :43:24. | |
per head of anywhere in the world. It was just a joke! So numbers -- | :43:24. | :43:28. | |
sinners have an important resonance. That was just a silly joke from me. | :43:28. | :43:33. | |
But we have to thank you for joining us. | :43:33. | :43:40. | |
Where are you on this? Better than Jaws! I think Alex Salmond will be | :43:40. | :43:45. | |
in trouble on this. You do? I think that tide and time have turned | :43:45. | :43:50. | |
against him, rather. He got one- third of the council vote when | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
Labour fully expected to lose Glasgow. Labour did well, and be | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
seen to be on their way back in the West. There is that, but it seems | :43:58. | :44:05. | |
to me so unclear. There is the NATO issue, but independence as it is | :44:05. | :44:12. | |
being talked about is not that difference to devo max. They will | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
get some more tax powers. I think general confidence in being a | :44:16. | :44:20. | |
nation will not be riding high on this. I think Scotland should be | :44:20. | :44:24. | |
able to raise its own taxes and pay its own bills, but I would like it | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
to become part of the union. Devo max is the best outcome but how do | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
we get there? The danger of including it in the ballot, if that | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
wins, that will empower people to demand a second referendum in five | :44:37. | :44:43. | |
or 10 years. I think we should make it straight yes or no, but if it is | :44:43. | :44:50. | |
no, at give them devo max anyway. Or give them a debate? | :44:50. | :44:58. | |
We have had my colt both -- we have had Michael Gove saying that | :44:58. | :45:03. | |
teaching is holding back poorer kids and many would like to see the | :45:03. | :45:05. | |
return of grammar schools, but Michael Gove has said this will not | :45:05. | :45:10. | |
be a magic bullet. The Deputy Minister Nick Clegg has also laid | :45:10. | :45:14. | |
out an entire social mobility strategy from the Government. His | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
recipe is a pupil premium, subsidised nursery care, and | :45:18. | :45:28. | |
:45:28. | :45:30. | ||
demanding that universities give Mobility is about creating a truly | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
level playing field and a fair race. This is why the coalition | :45:34. | :45:39. | |
government is encouraging universities to recruit on the | :45:39. | :45:43. | |
basis of objective potential, on the basis of an ability to excel, | :45:43. | :45:49. | |
not purely on previous attainment. It may surprise the none Brits | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
among you to learn that in some quarters in the UK, the idea of | :45:53. | :45:58. | |
carefully taking into account the impact of background in assessing | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
university applications has been painted by some as a dangerous | :46:02. | :46:08. | |
piece of revolutionary socialism. But far from dumbing down, is Sir | :46:08. | :46:13. | |
about increasing opportunity to achieve excellence. Joining us now, | :46:13. | :46:21. | |
the Lib Dem MP Mike Crockatt. He joins us from Edinburgh. Our two | :46:21. | :46:25. | |
studio guests have strong interests in social mobility. When will we | :46:25. | :46:29. | |
know if anything of this is working? Of Illsley, it will take | :46:29. | :46:38. | |
some time, because the plan is to try to help to-year-olds, three- | :46:38. | :46:41. | |
year-old and four-year-olds. It has been shown that that is the best | :46:41. | :46:45. | |
place to invest money. It is too late later on to try and make the | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
difference, because children have already pulled ahead. We need to | :46:49. | :46:54. | |
invest the majority of the money available in two early years. And | :46:54. | :46:59. | |
that is what we are doing. Is it better or worse than it was, | :46:59. | :47:04. | |
compared with 30 years ago? I would say broadly, it is fairly similar. | :47:04. | :47:10. | |
All that has been done over the last 30 years has improved the lot | :47:10. | :47:14. | |
generally for all children across the spectrum. But the gap between | :47:14. | :47:24. | |
the richest and poorest has stayed pretty much the same. Toby Young, | :47:24. | :47:28. | |
this is like apple-pie and peace, everybody is in favour of it and | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
they talk endlessly about it. You sometimes wonder if the more people | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
talk about it, the less happens. It is a nebulous concept. Successive | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
governments have made doing something about social mobility a | :47:40. | :47:46. | |
priority, and yet it has continued to decline. In defence of the Lib | :47:46. | :47:50. | |
Dems, intervention in nursery, all the research evidence is that that | :47:50. | :47:54. | |
is how to deploy your resources most effectively if you want to do | :47:54. | :47:59. | |
something about social mobility. Better nursery care and be re- | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
education -- pre-school education. The pupil premium is a good idea, | :48:02. | :48:05. | |
but I would draw the line at insisting that our best | :48:05. | :48:13. | |
universities lower the standards for students from state schools. We | :48:13. | :48:18. | |
need to raise standards. I And yet evidence suggests that when bright | :48:18. | :48:22. | |
state schools kids get to our best universities, they end up with the | :48:22. | :48:26. | |
best degrees. The air is no reason why those same children should and | :48:26. | :48:30. | |
do just as well at secondary school so that they are able to compete | :48:30. | :48:34. | |
with the product of independent schools. Maybe those schools are | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
not conducive to go in to university. He will are looking at | :48:37. | :48:42. | |
a narrow band. I applaud what Nick Clegg has been trying to do. It has | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
been a big crusade for him. And I agree with Toby that it is all | :48:46. | :48:54. | |
about early-years. But in the end, it is all filtered through the top | :48:54. | :49:00. | |
few percentage of kids, the elite universities, Oxbridge. You will | :49:00. | :49:05. | |
always get a few bright children who can be helped to make their way | :49:05. | :49:09. | |
through, and that is important. But Ed Miliband made a decent speech on | :49:09. | :49:14. | |
social mobility this week. He is looking much lower down the line, | :49:14. | :49:19. | |
not just at university entrants, but looking at this huge | :49:19. | :49:27. | |
unemployment problem for kids who will not get an apprenticeship or | :49:27. | :49:29. | |
vocational qualifications in engineering and so on. They are | :49:29. | :49:35. | |
being downgraded rather than value. It is difficult to entrenched any | :49:35. | :49:41. | |
sort of parity. Mike, you have got the social mobility transparency | :49:41. | :49:44. | |
board, whatever that means. You have the social mobility and child | :49:45. | :49:48. | |
poverty Commission. You have the ministerial group on social | :49:48. | :49:52. | |
mobility. If government quangos were the answer, we would be the | :49:52. | :49:57. | |
most mobile country in the world. In the end, if you want to get | :49:57. | :50:01. | |
social mobility across the spectrum, don't you just have to see a | :50:01. | :50:08. | |
massive improvement in the quality of state education? Absolutely. | :50:08. | :50:13. | |
That is the bottom line. And that is what we are trying to do. We are | :50:13. | :50:18. | |
trying to make sure that children entering the education system are | :50:19. | :50:22. | |
already on a level playing field and do not have to catch up. The | :50:22. | :50:26. | |
evidence shows that they don't catch up. By the gap between the | :50:26. | :50:30. | |
private schools and state schools has never been wider. It is getting | :50:30. | :50:36. | |
worse. Broadly, it is staying the same. But the state schools are | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
getting better and the private schools are getting better, but the | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
gap remains the same. It is great to hear such support across the | :50:44. | :50:49. | |
board for what we are trying to do with the pupil premium. But there | :50:49. | :50:54. | |
is other stuff going on. There is �1 billion invested in the youth | :50:54. | :50:56. | |
contract, which is trying to deal with the issue of apprenticeships. | :50:56. | :51:02. | |
This morning, I hosted an event at Murrayfield stadium that had 100 | :51:02. | :51:07. | |
people in business from across Edinburgh. I was trying to sell to | :51:07. | :51:11. | |
them the new contract, the Modern apprenticeship, business mentoring. | :51:11. | :51:17. | |
There is a lot of other stuff going on to make sure we help those | :51:17. | :51:22. | |
fallen behind to catch up. But the answer is undoubtedly to get in | :51:22. | :51:29. | |
early. There is only one place available at Balliol College, | :51:29. | :51:36. | |
Oxford. There are two candidates. One has five A * A-levels. He is | :51:37. | :51:43. | |
from Eton. The other has four * A levels. She is from Easterhouse | :51:43. | :51:49. | |
high. Who should get the place? one from Easterhouse high would not | :51:49. | :51:55. | |
have A-levels. But you get my point. I did A-levels, and I was educated | :51:55. | :52:01. | |
in Scotland. But leaving that aside, let's look at the potential of the | :52:01. | :52:08. | |
individual. Let's look at the individuals applying and see how | :52:08. | :52:15. | |
they sell themselves and what they can potentially achieve. You would | :52:15. | :52:20. | |
do it by an interview? You would automatic it in favour of the Old | :52:20. | :52:27. | |
Etonian. Not at all. We? Yes. I have two apprentices in London at | :52:27. | :52:31. | |
the moment. Quite purposefully, neither of them have come from a | :52:31. | :52:35. | |
private education background. They are both very capable and | :52:35. | :52:41. | |
interviewed very well. You're serious point is that nobody ever | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
talks about downward social mobility. It is a one-way street. | :52:46. | :52:54. | |
So your Eton candidate with the five A *, his parents are not | :52:54. | :52:58. | |
likely to relinquish this privilege. This is something Nick Clegg fell | :52:58. | :53:04. | |
foul of himself this week, and credit to him for doing so. He was | :53:04. | :53:10. | |
accused of all sorts of interference. We are running out of | :53:10. | :53:14. | |
time. Thanks for joining us. Now let's look back at the Week in | :53:14. | :53:18. | |
politics, a week when the sun came out over Big Ben and the red mist | :53:18. | :53:28. | |
descended in the chamber. The week started with Camp David. | :53:28. | :53:31. | |
That is David Cameron, who cheered on Chelsea during the G8 summit, | :53:31. | :53:36. | |
held at President Obama's woodland retreat. Then he was off to the | :53:36. | :53:41. | |
NATO summit in Chicago, where he had enough time for a walk in the | :53:41. | :53:44. | |
weeds with the mayor of the Windy City. But when Cameron got back to | :53:44. | :53:49. | |
Westminster, he was not his usually relaxed self when confronted with | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
Ed Balls. We have we would not have if we listened to the muttering | :53:53. | :53:57. | |
idiot sitting opposite. That's earned a ticking off from the | :53:57. | :54:02. | |
Speaker. But Vince Cable also got one for going to Germany instead of | :54:02. | :54:07. | |
his departmental Question Time in the Commons. It is undesirable for | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
the Secretary of State to be absent on these occasions. It must not | :54:10. | :54:15. | |
become regular practice. Finally, the Prince of darkness met the Lord | :54:15. | :54:19. | |
Justice of transparency. Mandy told the Leveson Inquiry he had never | :54:20. | :54:28. | |
leaked a story, ever. Honestly, never. | :54:28. | :54:33. | |
Honestly, he never did. No, if you think the tempers got | :54:33. | :54:36. | |
frayed in the House of Commons this week, take a look at these scenes | :54:36. | :54:46. | |
from the Ukrainian parliament. A debate about giving the Russian | :54:46. | :54:51. | |
language equal status in part of the country rather descended into | :54:51. | :55:01. | |
:55:01. | :55:03. | ||
this. It got quite serious. Somehow, I don't think the Ukraine will be | :55:03. | :55:05. | |
giving these Russian granny's "douze points" in tomorrow night's | :55:06. | :55:15. | |
Eurovision Song Contest. Of course, in the Mother of parliaments, the | :55:15. | :55:19. | |
men in tights would have moved in and separated them quickly. Let's | :55:19. | :55:26. | |
come back to our own place. The Prime Minister was firstly accused | :55:26. | :55:34. | |
of relaxing and being too concerned with football, and then he became | :55:34. | :55:38. | |
angry day event could not control his temper. What is the truth? That | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
her as been the narrative around this event. He did not look as | :55:41. | :55:48. | |
though he had lost his temper. was riled. He was, but he often | :55:48. | :55:51. | |
gives as good as he gets across the dispatch box, and that was just an | :55:52. | :55:56. | |
example of that. His own side loved it. George Osborne was crying for | :55:56. | :56:02. | |
more. No under less, you also have to look at Ed Balls' face. Nobody | :56:02. | :56:10. | |
was happy at Ed Balls being called a muttering idiot. The reason for | :56:10. | :56:14. | |
this is the notion that David Cameron does lose his temper, and | :56:14. | :56:20. | |
he can't always control it. That is perceived as damaging by Labour, so | :56:20. | :56:26. | |
obviously, they try and get the rise out of him. I think all 10 | :56:26. | :56:31. | |
people watching the Daily Politics when that was shown appreciate the | :56:31. | :56:34. | |
fact that David Cameron is a human being and sometimes loses his | :56:34. | :56:38. | |
temper. He is not preaching self- control. One of the criticisms on | :56:38. | :56:43. | |
Cameron on my side is that he does not get angry enough, he does not | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
hate your position as much as they hate him. So it was good to see a | :56:47. | :56:51. | |
bit of rage. He isn't there a great difference between Gen run -- | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
genuine passion and anger and slagging off the other side? | :56:55. | :57:00. | |
Calling Ed Balls a muttering idiot is not quite of Ukrainian | :57:00. | :57:08. | |
proportions. But it is still public school playground knockabout at its | :57:08. | :57:15. | |
kindest. That is how it was perceived. Ed Balls himself is a | :57:15. | :57:20. | |
public schoolboy. In deed. But in the long run, the more he gets | :57:21. | :57:24. | |
riled up by Ed Balls, the more he will be determined to stop Ed Balls | :57:25. | :57:29. | |
succeeding him. Gladstone let off steam by felling trees. Winston | :57:29. | :57:36. | |
Churchill painted. Robert Walpole brewed his own beer. And our Prime | :57:36. | :57:42. | |
Minister does fruit ninja. Before we go, let's find out the answer to | :57:42. | :57:47. | |
our quiz. The question was which politician drag Toby Young under a | :57:48. | :57:56. | |
table. Can you remember who it was? I can. It was the great UKIP leader | :57:56. | :58:02. | |
himself, Nigel Farage. I had heard he was a legendary drinker, so | :58:02. | :58:09. | |
rather mischievously, at a book party, I said to him, how about a | :58:09. | :58:15. | |
drinking contest? Then he started lining up the vodka shots and | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
started back in the way. Within an hour or so, he had won. You drank | :58:19. | :58:25. | |
vodka shots from our? How many did you get through? Not as many as | :58:25. | :58:28. | |
Nigel. He was still standing and very much compos mentis at the end | :58:28. | :58:34. | |
of it. He thank you to both of you for being with me today and keeping | :58:34. | :58:38. | |
the company. That is it for today. We thank all our guests. The One | :58:38. | :58:44. | |
O'clock News is starting on BBC One now. I will be back on BBC One on | :58:44. | :58:48. | |
Sunday at 11 o'clock in the morning, with the Sunday Politics. Hope you | :58:48. | :58:52. | |
can join me then. But that is it for the Daily Politics. We are off | :58:52. | :58:56. |