25/05/2012 Daily Politics


25/05/2012

Andrew Neil with the latest political news. Andrew is joined by Toby Young and Mary Riddell as they discuss Scottish independence, the Leveson Inquiry and education reform.


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Good afternoon and welcome to Daily Politics. The last one for a couple

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of weeks as the Commons heads off for, yes, yet another holiday. Fill

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your boots while you can, because today we are looking at Scotland,

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where a campaign for yes to independence kicked off this

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morning. It is promising not just politicians, but celebrities. Yes,

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celebrities. Who do they think they are, This Week?

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To Jeremy Hunt's conduct during the BSkyB bid is still under scrutiny.

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We have the latest from the Leveson Inquiry.

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Nick Clegg insists that people premiums and only his intervention

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will revolutionise social mobility in this country. -- early years

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intervention. Is he right? The Government is thinking again

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about slapping VAT on static caravans. We think about nothing

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else. We will bring you news of a quiet revolution in Yorkshire.

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All that in the next hour. Public service television at its finest.

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With no supplement on your licence fee! With us for the duration, he

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is late, probably with a hangover, the founder of the West London Free

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School, I can see him in the studio, so bring him in, sit him down and

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sat him about for being so late. Why are you so late? Traffic.

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Jubilee and Olympic preparations. The should have made allowance for

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that. Go to the back. The Daily Telegraph's very own Mary Riddell

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as well, perfectly on time, came by tube. No problem with her. Thank

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you. Let's start with the Leveson Inquiry into the standards and

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ethics of Her Majesty's Press. No wonder it is going on for so long!

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This morning's papers make uncomfortable reading for Jeremy

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Hunt. He argued that BSkyB should take full -- Rupert Murdoch should

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take full control of BSkyB. But speaking on ITV, yes, sometimes you

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get politics on ITV, he continued to be backed by David Cameron.

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was not what he has said in the past but how he was going to do the

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job. If we look at how we did the job, he looked for independent

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advice, he took it and did it in a thoroughly proper way. This is like

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a love letter coming to you from Jeremy Hunt about the Murdochs. The

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point is that he was getting his quasi-judicial role. He was going

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to decide. How could he be impartial when you knew that he was

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such a fan? He did act impartially because he took independent advice

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at every stage and he acted impartially. I had not wanted to

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give anybody the job. I had wanted the existing Business Secretary,

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Vince Cable, to do the job. That was the Prime Minister on ITV

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earlier this morning. How does it work out that you fire Vince Cable

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from this process because he is biased against Rupert Murdoch, and

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you hired Mr Hunt, biased in favour of Rupert Murdoch? Well, that is

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the million dollar question, isn't it? That is what the Prime Minister

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has to answer. I think already the focus has moved slightly away from

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Jeremy Hunt. It is fascinating, this email traffic, and the fact

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that they were texting each other dozens of times a day. Not Jeremy

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Hunt personally second but his special adviser and Fred Michel,

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Murdoch's man. The real question for Cameron is how can you possibly

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appoint somebody when it is absolutely clear from the memo that

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was revealed yesterday, that he was not only supportive of Rupert

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Murdoch and his bid, but absolutely Maasai and making his support.

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There was no doubt whatsoever. Having fired Vince Cable for being

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somewhat opinionated in the opposite direction, also, as far as

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I understand it, Gus O'Donnell, who cleared Jeremy Hunt to take

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charge... The Cabinet Secretary? Indeed. He has no knowledge of this

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emerge. There are real questions of justice there. In the Prime

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Minister's defence, who was he going to take the decision to? It

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was the offers that Jeremy Hunt held which made in the appropriate

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figure. Who else could it have been? Ken Clarke? It is not the

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Pope, it is not the Queen. It is not the majesty of the offers that

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is important. Why not the Pope? at the office. It is the individual

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holding the post that has to decide. It is clear that he was not

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impartial in this quasar judicial role. I agree that it was a problem

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for Cameron because he had to give the job to somebody. But to go

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right ahead with Jeremy Hunt, I think, well, as it is turning out...

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I don't think Jeremy Hunt has necessarily acted in appropriately.

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He was within his rights to express an opinion when it was not his task

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to make a decision. He had been advised by officials not to. So he

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was sailing close to the wind. kind of knew what Vince Cable

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thought beforehand. And Jeremy Hunt. And most people have an opinion on

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that. The difficulty that the Government faced was that they have

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to task a senior politician with making this decision. They could

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not give it to an official. So who do you task with it? The obvious

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person is the Secretary of State for business, and if he rules

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himself out by saying something stupid to a journalist, the most

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obvious person is the Secretary of State for the Department for Media

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and Sport. In 2003, a lot of things that Rupert Murdoch feared it did

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not appear in that Act. And now the same thing is happening. They would

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have got their way on BSkyB if the Milly Dowler story had not come out

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at the last minute. I suspect that governments will be supping with a

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long spoon when it comes to Murdoch land. I would have thought so. I

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completely agree with you. Everybody got too close, well, most

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people got too close to Murdoch. This was the atomic bomb of media

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ownership as far as the take-over was concerned. It was the biggest

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in British history. The entire media industry was very worried

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about it, simply because it appeared to ride roughshod. We need

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to move on, but young Adam Smith. Not the Economist from Scotland,

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because he died a while ago. This young chap, he resigned. When you

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listen to his testimony, yesterday afternoon and this morning to

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lovers and, he is playing it so straight. It begs the question why

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he resigned if everything he said is true. -- this morning to the

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Leveson Inquiry. You get the impression that he was forced to

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fall on his sword and savers of's political career. -- saved his

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boss's political career. Now it is time for the daily quiz and I know

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you love it. Our question is this. Toby Young, the late Toby Young,

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recently challenged a leading politician to a drinking contest,

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because he has got nothing else to do. And he lost! The journalist

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losing to a politician! He was the politician? William Hague, John

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Prescott, Nigel Farage, or toughest of the lot, Louise Mensch. My money

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is on her! At the end of the show, he will fess up and tell us what a

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big girl's blouse he really was. Earlier in the week, the Government

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was forced to publish the Beecroft Report, which proposed

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controversial changes to our employment laws, including allowing

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what is called no fault dismissal as for underperforming workers.

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Basically, if you don't like them, you can get rid of them. A group of

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MPs called the Free Enterprise Group, the clue is in the name, are

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publishing their own plan to reform Britain's labour markets. They see

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this as essential to withstand the economic shock that Greece crashing

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out of the euro will inevitably cause. They are calling it Plan E

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for Euro-X it. Probably Plan E for emergency would make more sense. --

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the euro exit. The plan is for people earning under �10,000 a year

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would be tax-exempt. They think the minimum wage should be frozen for

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three years. But they say that workers would receive a rise in

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real incomes because they would not have to pay it national insurance.

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Business would be encouraged to take on workers, and they would

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like to see the fear factor removed from hiring people. Not the fear

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factor from getting fired! And most controversially, companies with

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fewer than 10 workers would be exempt from unfair dismissal laws.

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At least for new employees. And they want to pat the kind of

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payouts that you can get for unfair dismissal or discrimination at work

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at around �50,000. -- cap the payouts. You get around �50,000 at

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the moment, but if it is discrimination for race and gender

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and things like that it can be much more, but that is unusual. They

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discuss this with MP George Eustice, one of the co-authors of the report.

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And from the TUC, head of a quality and Employment Rights, Sarah Veale.

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Lay out your stall. Why do you think this needs to be done?

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reality is, if you look at the eurozone at the moment, countries

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in the eurozone so that they want to stay in the eurozone, but they

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are not prepared to do what is required. Germany do not want to

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write the big cheques that are required. Let's not go through the

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eurozone. Let us seen Greece comes out. Why would this make a

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difference to our ability to survive it? -- let's assume that

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Greece come out. It will have an impact on our exports and on the

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Government's strategy. You have to redouble your efforts to get growth

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going in our economy. The real reason this economy is not growing,

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I suggest, is not the lack of flexibility in the labour markets.

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There may or may not be. But by international standards we are

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pretty flexible. The reality is that there is no demand in the

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economy and this would not create demand. Let him answer. If you look

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at the last decade, it Government spending has gone up from 40% to

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50% of GDP. The economic freedom indexes that are done

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internationally, we have slipped down to 81, so a huge amount could

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be done here. You cannot just borrow money to stimulate growth,

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have to create the conditions for growth to happen. I think we should

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purge these fair weather policies that have grown up over the last 10

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years. There is a problem with the European labour market, including

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Britain, and it is a long-term one and we have seen it over 30 years.

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The more it has been regulated with rights and controls and so on, and

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the more taxes that have been levied on it to pay for social

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charges and the rest, the more long-term unemployment we have

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created and the more youth unemployment. I don't think there

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is any evidence that there is a causal link between regulation and

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the success or otherwise of an economy. So why does the eurozone

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have permanently high unemployment? All sorts of reasons that are not

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related to the Beecroft Report. That is about protection for

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employees. I am not talking about that. I am talking about over 30

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years the European governments increasingly regulating the labour

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markets and taxing it, and social charges in France are sometimes 60

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or 70% of wages. You should not be surprised if people do not want to

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Emperor people. In France or in the UK? There is not a particular

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problem in France that does not occur in other countries. Each

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country has separate labour laws, which impinge on employment rates

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or not. In the UK there has been extraordinary yo-yo ring in terms

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of up from the floor between governments of different political

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persuasions. But there is no evidence to suggest a causal link

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between employment regulation and demand of unemployment. There is

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just their evidence. -- and the amount of unemployment. In Germany,

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the consequence was that unemployment overall came down. In

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particular, they are the only European country with no youth

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unemployment problem. They have a very different economy. The thing I

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would say about the labour relations in Germany, they have

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something called co-determination. Employers determine working

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conditions, broadly. Whatever they do on dismissal law is small. The

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Beecroft Report proposal to do miss people at whim, -- to dismiss

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people and when, is appalling. you in favour of that? I am in

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favour of rules against discrimination but the concept of

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unfair dismissal is unique to Britain. It is a problem and

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employers do raise this as an issue if you talk to them. They have to

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go to tribunals. What you really need is a grown-up conversation. If

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a member of staff is falling behind... Are but it could be an

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unequal conversation between the boss and the worker. There are sham

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consultations for redundancy at the moment. They are not sham. They are

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not. They are quite often sham. They encourage the conversations

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that you are advocating. I don't agree. If you talk to employers,

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they always cite this as an obstacle. Lots of them did,

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actually. Lots of employers are perfectly happy with the employment

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relations system. There are some highly successful employers in the

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UK perfectly happy with a lightly You are claiming that this

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regulation costs 100 billion a year. You made that up? I can't remember

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where that figure came from. It is a big figure. It is a big figure,

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but the burden of regulation is a huge problem. You can't borrow your

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way out of beds. A business department did a survey of

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businesses, and employment regulation came number six, below a

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range of other issues. The working time directive alone cost us 3

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billion a year. Only 97 billion to go! There are a lot more than 97

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regulations. Commonsense dictates that if you remove some of the

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obstacles that face employers, they are more likely to take on new

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employees. That addresses your point about how to create demand in

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the economy. It reduces the welfare bill and increases the amount of

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people able to spend money. would not take people on if there

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was not demand in the first place. If demand is not increasing, which

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isn't, why hire anybody other than as a replacement? Plenty of

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employers say they would be willing to take people on if there was less

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regulation of the labour market. Unemployment is falling in America

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because their labour market is much less regulated. In George's report,

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in one respect, I agree with him. If Greece does leave the euro, and

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it is still an if, the effects on Britain will be much more severe

:17:19.:17:25.

than anyone has realised. But as to what you do to make this country's

:17:25.:17:29.

economy stronger, it comes back to what Andrew was talking about,

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which was demand and supply. There is little evidence that by getting

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tougher on workers and cutting red tape, it will make much difference.

:17:41.:17:46.

We have two models. One is some of the things you are talking about,

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George, and the Beecroft report. The other report this week from the

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IMF, which goes much more towards demand, would recommend more

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quantitative easing and some tax cuts, but boosting demand at. It is

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not that the whole of the Beecroft report is disreputable. I agree

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that industrial tribunals need looking at. But the line that Sarah

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talked about, which was redacted from the final version, the idea

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that a few people will lose their jobs because their employers don't

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like them, but that is a price worth paying, er that speaks of a

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callousness that goes beyond economics.

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The report also talks about setting up infrastructure laws. There is

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evidence that if you invest... one has any idea what

:18:41.:18:46.

infrastructure bombs means. If the euro does break up, you will have a

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flight of the capital from the Eurozone to the UK. If you could

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capture that in a special -- sensible way, you could put it into

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infrastructure. * An back from the substance and tummy as and analyst,

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is any of this going to happen? are making a clear argument that it

:19:07.:19:14.

should. But how will it happen? Government has changed the

:19:14.:19:17.

timescale through which people can take something to an industrial

:19:17.:19:22.

tribunal. But if you are an employer and you can't make up your

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mind after two years whether something is any good -- whether a

:19:25.:19:31.

person is any good, maybe you shouldn't be an employer. But what

:19:31.:19:35.

if somebody does well in one job but that is no -- Ben is moved to

:19:35.:19:39.

another job, and they fail in that job? There are systems to deal with

:19:39.:19:46.

that. One of the most compelling arguments For sacking people on

:19:46.:19:50.

site is that if the Lib Dems throw any more spanners in the works when

:19:50.:19:53.

it comes to these good measures, Cameron could say OK, Vince Cable,

:19:53.:20:03.

on your bike. And it is really going to happen(!). Some report in

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the Times today that if Greece does exit the euro, a lot of Tory

:20:08.:20:11.

backbenchers will want and in or out referendum. Is that true?

:20:11.:20:18.

Greece comes out of the euro, you will probably need a new treaty.

:20:18.:20:23.

And would that trigger a referendum in the UK? My view is that we

:20:23.:20:26.

should use our time in government to negotiate a new deal with the

:20:26.:20:30.

European Union. Things are in such a state of flux that there might be

:20:30.:20:34.

appetite for a sensible discussion about what the EU should look like,

:20:34.:20:38.

and then you renegotiate and put that to the British people. Good

:20:38.:20:43.

luck getting that past Nick Clegg. What do you make of Nigel Farage's

:20:43.:20:47.

offer that when you have got a strong Euro-sceptic and a UKIP

:20:47.:20:51.

candidate, he should run as a single candidate? They always had

:20:51.:20:56.

this sort of talk when elections come. I was a UKIP candidate, and I

:20:56.:21:00.

left because I want to get away from that. That is not what I

:21:00.:21:08.

believe we should be doing. People are saying UKIP are strong. That is

:21:08.:21:12.

why the Conservative Party has to articulate a clear vision about the

:21:12.:21:16.

future of the European Union. it is not doing that? It is

:21:16.:21:22.

starting to do that. Where is the evidence? The EU bill. We now have

:21:22.:21:25.

a bill in the UK which would require a referendum if anything

:21:25.:21:30.

changed. That is process, not substance. The David Cameron vetoed

:21:30.:21:36.

the EU treaty. We are never sure that he did. He vetoed that treaty.

:21:36.:21:41.

The treaty went ahead. As an inter- governmental treaty between those

:21:42.:21:46.

in the Eurozone. David Cameron is between a rock and a hard place. He

:21:46.:21:49.

is told he is lecturing when he tells them what they need to do,

:21:49.:21:54.

and when he does not tell them, he is told he is aloof. We have to

:21:54.:21:57.

move on. Now, a week from now the country

:21:57.:22:01.

will be gearing up for a weekend of celebrations to mark the Queen's

:22:01.:22:06.

Diamond Jubilee. Sadly, the powers that be reckon you would rather

:22:06.:22:10.

watch that than another episode of the Daily Politics, so we will not

:22:10.:22:13.

be on. No tears. But never one to miss a bandwagon, Adam has been

:22:13.:22:19.

holding his own street party seven days early.

:22:19.:22:22.

Welcome to a bargain-basement Daily Politics Jubilee street party. If

:22:22.:22:26.

we were having one, this would be a good spot, because on the Sunday of

:22:26.:22:29.

the Jubilee weekend, there will be a massive flotilla on the river and

:22:29.:22:34.

then her Majesty will come for lunch in Westminster on Tuesday. We

:22:34.:22:37.

have our guess from the all-party parliamentary group on the Jubilee,

:22:37.:22:42.

and Adrian Evans, the pageant master for the Jubilee pageant.

:22:42.:22:47.

Adrian, will be pageant be as good as this? Who have fully a bit

:22:47.:22:53.

better and louder. It should be amazing. It should be one of those

:22:53.:22:56.

events we will look back on in history and think it was an

:22:56.:23:03.

extraordinary thing to have achieved. How big is this flotilla

:23:03.:23:13.

going to be? There will be 1000 boats. They will pass from Putney

:23:13.:23:16.

all the way through to the Thames barrier in the east. Give us an

:23:17.:23:21.

idea of how big a logistical challenge it is? It has been

:23:21.:23:24.

extraordinary. I have worked on this for two and a half years.

:23:24.:23:29.

Early on, I discovered that the river goes up and down by seven

:23:29.:23:33.

metres twice a day. It shifts backwards and forwards at a rapid

:23:33.:23:37.

rate. The bridges are a different shape from one to another. Getting

:23:37.:23:41.

all those boats to do what they are supposed to do has been a

:23:41.:23:45.

logistical nightmare. We have not done something like that for a

:23:45.:23:49.

while, but it has been a regular feature throughout history.

:23:49.:23:53.

have to look back 150 years ago for the lord mayor's show, which was

:23:53.:23:57.

played out on the Thames every year in November. But the great royal

:23:57.:24:01.

pageants go back a few hundred years. That was when the Thames

:24:01.:24:06.

itself was the grand boulevard, the place that if you want to make a

:24:06.:24:12.

great impression, that was the place to do it. What is the All

:24:13.:24:18.

Party Parliamentary Group doing? The exciting thing we did was, we

:24:18.:24:21.

built a stained-glass window which will go up in Westminster Hall

:24:21.:24:26.

opposite her Majesty's father's stained glass window, which has her

:24:26.:24:30.

coat-of-arms and commemorates the Diamond Jubilee. I am excited to be

:24:30.:24:35.

here and shake the hand of the man in charge of this pageant. It will

:24:35.:24:41.

be wonderful, because we do these things better than any country.

:24:41.:24:45.

Around the world, countries pay billions to create that sort of

:24:45.:24:53.

iconic moment. We do it in an understated and elegant way. On the

:24:53.:24:59.

third assumed -- 3rd June, we will deliver that. Will there be Jubilee

:24:59.:25:05.

fever then, because the MPs will be on holiday? They will be in recess.

:25:05.:25:13.

They are working hard. Of course! will be here. Others like my

:25:13.:25:18.

children, who could not get tickets, will be somewhere along the river,

:25:18.:25:26.

watching this fantastic pageant, with the royal family on the boats

:25:26.:25:31.

themselves. There will be street parties all over every town and

:25:31.:25:36.

village. It will be a wonderful celebration. The terrace over there

:25:36.:25:40.

must be a good spot to watch it from. In it will be an

:25:40.:25:45.

extraordinary place to see it. The boats are coming from all over the

:25:45.:25:53.

UK. It really is a People's pageant. It is an accumulation of enthusiasm,

:25:53.:25:57.

passion and interest on the water. I should say some campaigners

:25:58.:26:01.

against the monarchy will be holding some protests during the

:26:01.:26:07.

weekend, but I don't think their sandwiches will be as good.

:26:07.:26:12.

What will you be doing for the Jubilee? I think I will have a hard

:26:12.:26:15.

job persuading my children to turn out for the Diamond Jubilee,

:26:15.:26:19.

because we had a bad experience in Dartmouth on Sunday at the Olympic

:26:19.:26:24.

torch relay. My seven-year-old son was really excited about it. It was

:26:24.:26:29.

just a parade of sponsors. There was one bus after another with

:26:29.:26:34.

Samsung, Lloyds TSB. They tried to get the crowd to chant Coca-Cola.

:26:34.:26:38.

The torch relay itself was an elderly blind Frenchman with two

:26:38.:26:44.

human crutches, crawling along at a snail's pace, almost an aftermath -

:26:44.:26:48.

- an afterthought to the main event, which was these buses throwing out

:26:48.:26:54.

plastic tat. Chariots of fire, it wasn't. But her Majesty will not be

:26:54.:26:58.

chanting Coca-Cola. She will go down the Thames on a barge. And I

:26:58.:27:02.

am sure it will be more impressive. By the time they get around to the

:27:02.:27:08.

proper ceremonial, whatever you think, the British do do that sort

:27:08.:27:12.

of thing fantastically well. This whole idea of monarchy and how

:27:12.:27:17.

people are going to celebrate it is interesting. I will not be out with

:27:17.:27:24.

the bunting, but if you think that in 1946, George VI, the Queen's

:27:24.:27:28.

father, apparently 3% thought he was doing a good job, the same as

:27:28.:27:34.

Joseph Stalin in 1946. Whereas now, the monarchy was popular in the

:27:34.:27:40.

'80s, but if you look at the Queen's approval rating, it is plus

:27:40.:27:47.

78, as opposed to David Cameron's at -12 and Ed Miliband on minus 11

:27:47.:27:50.

and Nick Clegg on minus 27, so she must be doing something right. It

:27:50.:27:56.

is not a good time to be a Republican. It is not. I am not a

:27:56.:28:01.

republican, I am a staunch monarchist, and I am sure the West

:28:01.:28:05.

London Free School will be doing a lot to celebrate.

:28:05.:28:08.

The Government is promising a decision later this summer whether

:28:08.:28:13.

it will go ahead and impose VAT on static caravans. George Osborne

:28:13.:28:18.

announced the measure in the Budget, but it has caused a near revolt in

:28:18.:28:22.

Yorkshire where, not all people know this, almost all Britain's

:28:22.:28:27.

static caravans are made. I knew it, because Alan Johnson told me. He is

:28:27.:28:35.

an MP from there. The timing of the government's VAT

:28:35.:28:39.

announcement could not have been worse for the owners of this

:28:39.:28:43.

leisure park in east Yorkshire. After weathering floods in a

:28:44.:28:48.

recession, they had just invested �5 million in new facilities,

:28:48.:28:54.

including an indoor pool, spa, Jim and golf simulator. But then came

:28:54.:29:01.

the news that all new holiday homes sold here will be hit by an average

:29:01.:29:07.

of �6,000 in VAT costs. Somebody from London goes out and buys a

:29:07.:29:13.

second home. They pay 1% stamp duty. Yet we are asking the hard-working

:29:13.:29:20.

couples to now find 20% extra for a holiday home. 30,000 now becomes

:29:20.:29:27.

36,000. We can't afford to absorb the VAT, so it has to go somewhere.

:29:27.:29:31.

The National Caravan Council estimates that the decision to add

:29:31.:29:35.

20% VAT on to the cost of static caravans will lead to more than

:29:36.:29:41.

4000 job losses at holiday parks across the country. More than 1400

:29:41.:29:47.

in manufacturing and 1500 at suppliers, adding up to more than

:29:47.:29:57.
:29:57.:29:57.

manufacturing workers in Beverly fear for their future. The company

:29:57.:30:01.

has ridden out the recession well, and for the Government to levy a

:30:01.:30:06.

20% increase on VAT, it is mind- blowing. The government are doing a

:30:06.:30:09.

campaign on the TV at the moment for people to holiday in Britain,

:30:09.:30:14.

so they should back the caravan industry. We are part of the

:30:14.:30:19.

tourism industry. Politician has from all sides have united against

:30:19.:30:24.

the so-called caravan Tax. A recent vote in the House of Commons saw

:30:24.:30:29.

the biggest Tory rebellion since student tuition fees, but is the

:30:29.:30:38.

Government in the mood to It is right that we tried to deal

:30:38.:30:42.

with static caravans fairly and consistently with other products,

:30:42.:30:45.

but we want to listen to the concerns about the impact, and we

:30:45.:30:48.

want to listen to exactly how this would work and what the borderline

:30:48.:30:53.

would be. They used to be a fantastic fishing industry in the

:30:53.:31:00.

UK. Especially in Hull. Government decisions have killed it. It feels

:31:00.:31:05.

like they are doing the same again with the caravan industry. I think

:31:05.:31:09.

in five years' time, we will look back and so that we had a five-

:31:09.:31:16.

month manufacturing industry. -- say that we had a thriving

:31:16.:31:20.

manufacturing industry. One decision will kill it off.

:31:20.:31:22.

Government insists that the proposals are fare, but thousands

:31:23.:31:28.

have signed the cross-party petition calling for them to think

:31:28.:31:34.

again. Within the last 24 hours, there has been a change in the mood

:31:34.:31:39.

music on all of this. Yesterday in the Commons, the business Minister

:31:39.:31:43.

Greg Barker suggested that it was quite possible that they would do

:31:43.:31:47.

some kind of U-turn after rule. You get the impression that this is one

:31:47.:31:51.

of the schemes that the Treasury has in its bottom drawer. They may

:31:51.:31:55.

have tried to slip it through when Labour was in power but they had

:31:55.:31:58.

better political and 10 I, and this time they did get it through.

:31:58.:32:04.

of the things that would never have got past Gordon Brown. -- better

:32:04.:32:11.

political antenna. There are difficulties in the North, at the

:32:11.:32:16.

moment, but it is also a presentational disaster. The pasty

:32:16.:32:20.

tax, the granny tax, all the rest of it. Some of these things have

:32:20.:32:24.

some merit, not all of them. You could certainly make a very good

:32:24.:32:30.

case for the granny tax. But they are sold as if George Osborne had

:32:30.:32:38.

taxed bald nurse or hypoallergenic dogs. -- text being bald. He could

:32:38.:32:44.

not have courted less popularity. Everybody loves caravans in Britain.

:32:44.:32:52.

As long as they are not in front of you on the road! Yes! On that

:32:52.:32:56.

excellent film, when you listen to these people in the North of

:32:56.:33:00.

England, they are making things, working hard, in employment, making

:33:00.:33:05.

things that people want to buy. And they find themselves on the wrong

:33:05.:33:10.

end of Government. Something has gone wrong. It is catastrophic. I

:33:10.:33:18.

blame the Lib Dems. We saw the Damian McBride block. -- blog. The

:33:18.:33:21.

Government produced his wish-list of various taxes that he and Gordon

:33:21.:33:26.

Brown used to batter way. But George Osborne announced quite late

:33:26.:33:31.

in the day that they wanted to cut the top rate of tax. So Danny

:33:31.:33:34.

Alexander and his team looked at what they could ask for in return.

:33:34.:33:38.

Funny you should ask, we have got this list. That is what the Lib

:33:38.:33:43.

Dems demanded as the price of the tax cut. You can tweet and let us

:33:43.:33:48.

know if you are to blame, Lib Dems. The battle for hearts and minds in

:33:48.:33:52.

Scotland gets under way today as those hoping for a yes vote in a

:33:52.:33:57.

referendum on Scottish independence launched their campaign. There has

:33:57.:34:02.

been a blizzard of rhetoric from both sides of the argument, but

:34:02.:34:05.

will any economic facts be introduced before Scottish people

:34:05.:34:10.

have to make up their minds, probably in the autumn of 2014? We

:34:10.:34:17.

said they did to his natural habitat to find out. -- we sent

:34:17.:34:21.

David. The Rob Roy, Scottish pub in the

:34:21.:34:24.

heart of London. The gaffer Jones added is the unofficial embassy and

:34:25.:34:30.

in a few years' time there could be a real one. -- do gaffer jokes that

:34:30.:34:36.

it is the unofficial embassy. Should Scotland be part of the

:34:36.:34:38.

United Kingdom? As a public service broadcaster, I would love to bring

:34:38.:34:42.

you the full economic facts and figures about what that would mean

:34:42.:34:46.

for the UK as a whole and for Scottish people. I would love to

:34:46.:34:51.

but I cannot. And more worryingly, neither can anybody else. It is not

:34:51.:34:54.

possible now to say whether in 10 years' time Scotland would be

:34:54.:34:59.

better off as part of the union of separately. Not definitely better

:34:59.:35:04.

of or worse-off. Incredibly uncertain. Not only that, but you

:35:04.:35:08.

try finding figured that both sides of the debate actually agree on. I

:35:08.:35:12.

have tried it and felt like I have had a night on the hard stuff. But

:35:12.:35:15.

there is a desire to give Scottish people something definitive to go

:35:15.:35:19.

on. Too much of the debate has been wrapped up in a certain and the

:35:19.:35:27.

process of the referendum. -- in assertions. Lots of people want to

:35:27.:35:32.

know what would actually happen. Here is the good news. The

:35:32.:35:34.

Institute of Fiscal Studies are keen to undertake research that

:35:34.:35:37.

they hope will provide some of the answers. The bad news is that even

:35:38.:35:41.

their figures will depend on what happens to the black stuff. Not

:35:41.:35:47.

that! The oil. If you look at the tax revenues including North Sea

:35:47.:35:50.

oil, then their fiscal position is not very different to the rest of

:35:50.:35:55.

the United Kingdom. If you ignore North Sea oil and then the Scottish

:35:55.:35:59.

situation is worse than the rest of the UK, then oil plays a crucial

:35:59.:36:04.

part in the figures. With oil, Scotland is at least as well off as

:36:04.:36:09.

the rest of the UK from a budgetary point of view. So whose oil is it

:36:09.:36:13.

Anyway? At the moment we don't even know that. And if it remains

:36:13.:36:18.

disputed, who decides? If Scotland and England are going to continue

:36:18.:36:22.

as autonomous countries, then they will be sovereigns, and you cannot

:36:22.:36:26.

force sovereigns to solve the dispute. But they are under

:36:26.:36:31.

obligation to resolve any disputes without the use of force. Hopefully

:36:31.:36:34.

they would submit their dispute to the arbitration tribunals. They

:36:34.:36:40.

would tackle the questions submitted to them. From state

:36:40.:36:48.

practice, that can take between two-and-a-half and 10 years.

:36:48.:36:51.

Internationally respected think- tank admit there are more questions

:36:51.:36:56.

than answers. So will anything be clear ever? There are no definitive

:36:56.:37:00.

answers on what Scotland might look like after independence. There

:37:00.:37:04.

would be a long ago station about how you share National that, North

:37:04.:37:07.

Sea oil, defence spending. There is not a single answer about which bit

:37:07.:37:12.

of that is Scotland and which bit is for the rest of the UK. There is

:37:12.:37:15.

no single answer and the question that will remain after independence,

:37:15.:37:20.

after a vote on independence, is how that that association will come

:37:20.:37:24.

out. The one thing that we do know that we know is that the biggest

:37:24.:37:27.

decision that got and takes in centuries may well be made before

:37:27.:37:32.

its people are in full possession of the economic facts. -- that

:37:32.:37:36.

Scotland takes. From yes campaign, Blair Jenkins,

:37:36.:37:43.

the former editor of BBC Scotland and STV. Have you started this

:37:43.:37:47.

campaign so early because the boat is not until 2014 because you are

:37:47.:37:56.

so far behind, 2-1, against independence? Hello. I think there

:37:56.:37:58.

is a tremendous job to be done over the next two-and-a-half years to

:37:58.:38:02.

allow people in Scotland to at all the questions they want to ask and

:38:02.:38:10.

get all the answers to make is important decision. The great thing

:38:10.:38:15.

that has happened today, and it has been an electrifying event, has

:38:15.:38:21.

been a tremendous way to start the campaign. But you concede that 2 -1,

:38:21.:38:28.

Scottish people are against what you want? I think if the opinion

:38:28.:38:33.

polls are saying different things. There is a very large sector of the

:38:33.:38:36.

population who have not made up their mind. I talk to people in all

:38:36.:38:41.

walks of life in Scotland, business, sport and elsewhere. I think that

:38:42.:38:45.

an awful lot of people are at the point where they are going to vote

:38:45.:38:48.

for independence or are heading in that direction and are waiting to

:38:48.:38:52.

be persuaded. I think the job for the campaign over the next couple

:38:52.:38:55.

of years is to nudge the people in Scotland in the direction in which

:38:55.:38:58.

they want to travel anywhere. They are on this journey and they want

:38:58.:39:04.

to be nudged. If you cannot win the argument now, when can you? The

:39:04.:39:07.

Tories are almost irrelevant in Scotland now and the Lib Dems are

:39:07.:39:11.

in meltdown. Labour Party has been on the back that until very

:39:11.:39:18.

recently. -- the back foot. There is an SNP landslide, the country is

:39:18.:39:22.

in recession, and your country has a war chest of millions. If you

:39:22.:39:29.

cannot win now, when can you? A think we are going to win. You are

:39:29.:39:32.

not winning the argument at the moment. I think we are winning the

:39:32.:39:38.

argument. One of the things that we can see right around the world now,

:39:38.:39:42.

in this country and elsewhere, is that very often people are making

:39:42.:39:45.

up their minds on big boat, presidential elections and things,

:39:45.:39:51.

pretty late in the day. -- big votes. And we have seen some

:39:51.:39:55.

results quite late in the campaign. I absolutely believe, and this is

:39:55.:39:59.

my own experience and I have seen data to back this up, that there is

:39:59.:40:02.

a large sector of the population in Scotland that has not made up their

:40:02.:40:07.

minds, but they are willing to be persuaded. It is the wrong

:40:07.:40:10.

perception to think that opinion in Scotland has calcified into those

:40:10.:40:13.

in favour and those against. It certainly has not and there is

:40:13.:40:18.

everything to play for. This team has just come onto the pitch today.

:40:18.:40:21.

I am sure there is everything to play for, but the opinion polls

:40:21.:40:26.

have been quite consistent. Often less than a third are in favour of

:40:26.:40:30.

your side of the argument. There are also two other things that are

:40:30.:40:35.

difficult for you. 30% of Scottish Nationalist voters are against

:40:35.:40:39.

independence! They vote SNP but they are not in favour of

:40:39.:40:43.

independence. And only 27% of women are in favour of independence. That

:40:43.:40:52.

is a hill to climb. You are referring to today's opinion poll,

:40:52.:40:55.

but there are different opinion polls and much depends on what is

:40:55.:41:00.

being asked, as with all opinion polls. But the truth is, I mean,

:41:00.:41:03.

you and I live and work in the political media bubble, that

:41:03.:41:10.

village, and we follow these things very closely, but most folk are not

:41:10.:41:13.

paying a great deal of attention to this at the moment. But they

:41:13.:41:17.

certainly will become engaged in what is going to be a campaign, a

:41:17.:41:21.

movement, over the next couple of years, the scale of which people

:41:21.:41:25.

will never have seen on these islands. I know you do come here

:41:25.:41:30.

sometimes, but just watch. And we will. Can you clarify one issue for

:41:30.:41:34.

me? It is quite important for the future and defence of these islands,

:41:34.:41:38.

which we are all part of, with an independent Scotland be part of

:41:38.:41:44.

NATO? I am not going to give you an opinion on that. Why not, it is

:41:44.:41:49.

quite important? As you know, I come from a broadcasting background

:41:49.:41:53.

and I am not used to this sort of platform. It is the first time I

:41:53.:41:58.

have ever expressed an opinion about anything. I understand but

:41:58.:42:03.

the linchpin of our communal defence is the membership of NATO.

:42:03.:42:09.

People are pledged to come to our aid should we be under attack. If

:42:09.:42:15.

Scotland is independent, will we or will we not be part of NATO?

:42:15.:42:18.

think that is a very valid question and it needs to be addressed over

:42:18.:42:23.

the next two-and-a-half years. I think the weight of opinion that is

:42:23.:42:27.

here today is behind the idea that whatever decision we are making,

:42:27.:42:31.

about NATO, the currency, anything else, that the people best place to

:42:31.:42:36.

take those decisions for Scotland of the people living in Scotland. I

:42:36.:42:40.

think policy decisions, including important ones about NATO

:42:40.:42:43.

membership, are for another day. Not today. They certainly need to

:42:43.:42:47.

be dealt with between now and the day of the vote. I can give you a

:42:47.:42:51.

personal view, and I am open to the argument. I do not have a fixed you

:42:51.:42:56.

and I would like to hear both sides. Was it not a mistake to launch the

:42:56.:43:00.

campaign in a cinema where the double bill is The Dictator and

:43:01.:43:05.

Dark Shadows? You know Scotland well enough to know that cinemas

:43:05.:43:09.

play an extraordinarily powerful role in Scottish life. We are in

:43:09.:43:15.

Edinburgh, but Glasgow had at one time the highest number of cinemas

:43:15.:43:24.

per head of anywhere in the world. It was just a joke! So numbers --

:43:24.:43:28.

sinners have an important resonance. That was just a silly joke from me.

:43:28.:43:33.

But we have to thank you for joining us.

:43:33.:43:40.

Where are you on this? Better than Jaws! I think Alex Salmond will be

:43:40.:43:45.

in trouble on this. You do? I think that tide and time have turned

:43:45.:43:50.

against him, rather. He got one- third of the council vote when

:43:50.:43:54.

Labour fully expected to lose Glasgow. Labour did well, and be

:43:54.:43:58.

seen to be on their way back in the West. There is that, but it seems

:43:58.:44:05.

to me so unclear. There is the NATO issue, but independence as it is

:44:05.:44:12.

being talked about is not that difference to devo max. They will

:44:12.:44:16.

get some more tax powers. I think general confidence in being a

:44:16.:44:20.

nation will not be riding high on this. I think Scotland should be

:44:20.:44:24.

able to raise its own taxes and pay its own bills, but I would like it

:44:25.:44:29.

to become part of the union. Devo max is the best outcome but how do

:44:29.:44:33.

we get there? The danger of including it in the ballot, if that

:44:33.:44:37.

wins, that will empower people to demand a second referendum in five

:44:37.:44:43.

or 10 years. I think we should make it straight yes or no, but if it is

:44:43.:44:50.

no, at give them devo max anyway. Or give them a debate?

:44:50.:44:58.

We have had my colt both -- we have had Michael Gove saying that

:44:58.:45:03.

teaching is holding back poorer kids and many would like to see the

:45:03.:45:05.

return of grammar schools, but Michael Gove has said this will not

:45:05.:45:10.

be a magic bullet. The Deputy Minister Nick Clegg has also laid

:45:10.:45:14.

out an entire social mobility strategy from the Government. His

:45:14.:45:18.

recipe is a pupil premium, subsidised nursery care, and

:45:18.:45:28.
:45:28.:45:30.

demanding that universities give Mobility is about creating a truly

:45:30.:45:34.

level playing field and a fair race. This is why the coalition

:45:34.:45:39.

government is encouraging universities to recruit on the

:45:39.:45:43.

basis of objective potential, on the basis of an ability to excel,

:45:43.:45:49.

not purely on previous attainment. It may surprise the none Brits

:45:49.:45:53.

among you to learn that in some quarters in the UK, the idea of

:45:53.:45:58.

carefully taking into account the impact of background in assessing

:45:58.:46:02.

university applications has been painted by some as a dangerous

:46:02.:46:08.

piece of revolutionary socialism. But far from dumbing down, is Sir

:46:08.:46:13.

about increasing opportunity to achieve excellence. Joining us now,

:46:13.:46:21.

the Lib Dem MP Mike Crockatt. He joins us from Edinburgh. Our two

:46:21.:46:25.

studio guests have strong interests in social mobility. When will we

:46:25.:46:29.

know if anything of this is working? Of Illsley, it will take

:46:29.:46:38.

some time, because the plan is to try to help to-year-olds, three-

:46:38.:46:41.

year-old and four-year-olds. It has been shown that that is the best

:46:41.:46:45.

place to invest money. It is too late later on to try and make the

:46:45.:46:49.

difference, because children have already pulled ahead. We need to

:46:49.:46:54.

invest the majority of the money available in two early years. And

:46:54.:46:59.

that is what we are doing. Is it better or worse than it was,

:46:59.:47:04.

compared with 30 years ago? I would say broadly, it is fairly similar.

:47:04.:47:10.

All that has been done over the last 30 years has improved the lot

:47:10.:47:14.

generally for all children across the spectrum. But the gap between

:47:14.:47:24.

the richest and poorest has stayed pretty much the same. Toby Young,

:47:24.:47:28.

this is like apple-pie and peace, everybody is in favour of it and

:47:28.:47:32.

they talk endlessly about it. You sometimes wonder if the more people

:47:32.:47:36.

talk about it, the less happens. It is a nebulous concept. Successive

:47:37.:47:40.

governments have made doing something about social mobility a

:47:40.:47:46.

priority, and yet it has continued to decline. In defence of the Lib

:47:46.:47:50.

Dems, intervention in nursery, all the research evidence is that that

:47:50.:47:54.

is how to deploy your resources most effectively if you want to do

:47:54.:47:59.

something about social mobility. Better nursery care and be re-

:47:59.:48:02.

education -- pre-school education. The pupil premium is a good idea,

:48:02.:48:05.

but I would draw the line at insisting that our best

:48:05.:48:13.

universities lower the standards for students from state schools. We

:48:13.:48:18.

need to raise standards. I And yet evidence suggests that when bright

:48:18.:48:22.

state schools kids get to our best universities, they end up with the

:48:22.:48:26.

best degrees. The air is no reason why those same children should and

:48:26.:48:30.

do just as well at secondary school so that they are able to compete

:48:30.:48:34.

with the product of independent schools. Maybe those schools are

:48:34.:48:37.

not conducive to go in to university. He will are looking at

:48:37.:48:42.

a narrow band. I applaud what Nick Clegg has been trying to do. It has

:48:42.:48:46.

been a big crusade for him. And I agree with Toby that it is all

:48:46.:48:54.

about early-years. But in the end, it is all filtered through the top

:48:54.:49:00.

few percentage of kids, the elite universities, Oxbridge. You will

:49:00.:49:05.

always get a few bright children who can be helped to make their way

:49:05.:49:09.

through, and that is important. But Ed Miliband made a decent speech on

:49:09.:49:14.

social mobility this week. He is looking much lower down the line,

:49:14.:49:19.

not just at university entrants, but looking at this huge

:49:19.:49:27.

unemployment problem for kids who will not get an apprenticeship or

:49:27.:49:29.

vocational qualifications in engineering and so on. They are

:49:29.:49:35.

being downgraded rather than value. It is difficult to entrenched any

:49:35.:49:41.

sort of parity. Mike, you have got the social mobility transparency

:49:41.:49:44.

board, whatever that means. You have the social mobility and child

:49:45.:49:48.

poverty Commission. You have the ministerial group on social

:49:48.:49:52.

mobility. If government quangos were the answer, we would be the

:49:52.:49:57.

most mobile country in the world. In the end, if you want to get

:49:57.:50:01.

social mobility across the spectrum, don't you just have to see a

:50:01.:50:08.

massive improvement in the quality of state education? Absolutely.

:50:08.:50:13.

That is the bottom line. And that is what we are trying to do. We are

:50:13.:50:18.

trying to make sure that children entering the education system are

:50:19.:50:22.

already on a level playing field and do not have to catch up. The

:50:22.:50:26.

evidence shows that they don't catch up. By the gap between the

:50:26.:50:30.

private schools and state schools has never been wider. It is getting

:50:30.:50:36.

worse. Broadly, it is staying the same. But the state schools are

:50:36.:50:40.

getting better and the private schools are getting better, but the

:50:40.:50:44.

gap remains the same. It is great to hear such support across the

:50:44.:50:49.

board for what we are trying to do with the pupil premium. But there

:50:49.:50:54.

is other stuff going on. There is �1 billion invested in the youth

:50:54.:50:56.

contract, which is trying to deal with the issue of apprenticeships.

:50:56.:51:02.

This morning, I hosted an event at Murrayfield stadium that had 100

:51:02.:51:07.

people in business from across Edinburgh. I was trying to sell to

:51:07.:51:11.

them the new contract, the Modern apprenticeship, business mentoring.

:51:11.:51:17.

There is a lot of other stuff going on to make sure we help those

:51:17.:51:22.

fallen behind to catch up. But the answer is undoubtedly to get in

:51:22.:51:29.

early. There is only one place available at Balliol College,

:51:29.:51:36.

Oxford. There are two candidates. One has five A * A-levels. He is

:51:37.:51:43.

from Eton. The other has four * A levels. She is from Easterhouse

:51:43.:51:49.

high. Who should get the place? one from Easterhouse high would not

:51:49.:51:55.

have A-levels. But you get my point. I did A-levels, and I was educated

:51:55.:52:01.

in Scotland. But leaving that aside, let's look at the potential of the

:52:01.:52:08.

individual. Let's look at the individuals applying and see how

:52:08.:52:15.

they sell themselves and what they can potentially achieve. You would

:52:15.:52:20.

do it by an interview? You would automatic it in favour of the Old

:52:20.:52:27.

Etonian. Not at all. We? Yes. I have two apprentices in London at

:52:27.:52:31.

the moment. Quite purposefully, neither of them have come from a

:52:31.:52:35.

private education background. They are both very capable and

:52:35.:52:41.

interviewed very well. You're serious point is that nobody ever

:52:41.:52:46.

talks about downward social mobility. It is a one-way street.

:52:46.:52:54.

So your Eton candidate with the five A *, his parents are not

:52:54.:52:58.

likely to relinquish this privilege. This is something Nick Clegg fell

:52:58.:53:04.

foul of himself this week, and credit to him for doing so. He was

:53:04.:53:10.

accused of all sorts of interference. We are running out of

:53:10.:53:14.

time. Thanks for joining us. Now let's look back at the Week in

:53:14.:53:18.

politics, a week when the sun came out over Big Ben and the red mist

:53:18.:53:28.

descended in the chamber. The week started with Camp David.

:53:28.:53:31.

That is David Cameron, who cheered on Chelsea during the G8 summit,

:53:31.:53:36.

held at President Obama's woodland retreat. Then he was off to the

:53:36.:53:41.

NATO summit in Chicago, where he had enough time for a walk in the

:53:41.:53:44.

weeds with the mayor of the Windy City. But when Cameron got back to

:53:44.:53:49.

Westminster, he was not his usually relaxed self when confronted with

:53:50.:53:53.

Ed Balls. We have we would not have if we listened to the muttering

:53:53.:53:57.

idiot sitting opposite. That's earned a ticking off from the

:53:57.:54:02.

Speaker. But Vince Cable also got one for going to Germany instead of

:54:02.:54:07.

his departmental Question Time in the Commons. It is undesirable for

:54:07.:54:10.

the Secretary of State to be absent on these occasions. It must not

:54:10.:54:15.

become regular practice. Finally, the Prince of darkness met the Lord

:54:15.:54:19.

Justice of transparency. Mandy told the Leveson Inquiry he had never

:54:20.:54:28.

leaked a story, ever. Honestly, never.

:54:28.:54:33.

Honestly, he never did. No, if you think the tempers got

:54:33.:54:36.

frayed in the House of Commons this week, take a look at these scenes

:54:36.:54:46.

from the Ukrainian parliament. A debate about giving the Russian

:54:46.:54:51.

language equal status in part of the country rather descended into

:54:51.:55:01.
:55:01.:55:03.

this. It got quite serious. Somehow, I don't think the Ukraine will be

:55:03.:55:05.

giving these Russian granny's "douze points" in tomorrow night's

:55:06.:55:15.

Eurovision Song Contest. Of course, in the Mother of parliaments, the

:55:15.:55:19.

men in tights would have moved in and separated them quickly. Let's

:55:19.:55:26.

come back to our own place. The Prime Minister was firstly accused

:55:26.:55:34.

of relaxing and being too concerned with football, and then he became

:55:34.:55:38.

angry day event could not control his temper. What is the truth? That

:55:38.:55:41.

her as been the narrative around this event. He did not look as

:55:41.:55:48.

though he had lost his temper. was riled. He was, but he often

:55:48.:55:51.

gives as good as he gets across the dispatch box, and that was just an

:55:52.:55:56.

example of that. His own side loved it. George Osborne was crying for

:55:56.:56:02.

more. No under less, you also have to look at Ed Balls' face. Nobody

:56:02.:56:10.

was happy at Ed Balls being called a muttering idiot. The reason for

:56:10.:56:14.

this is the notion that David Cameron does lose his temper, and

:56:14.:56:20.

he can't always control it. That is perceived as damaging by Labour, so

:56:20.:56:26.

obviously, they try and get the rise out of him. I think all 10

:56:26.:56:31.

people watching the Daily Politics when that was shown appreciate the

:56:31.:56:34.

fact that David Cameron is a human being and sometimes loses his

:56:34.:56:38.

temper. He is not preaching self- control. One of the criticisms on

:56:38.:56:43.

Cameron on my side is that he does not get angry enough, he does not

:56:43.:56:47.

hate your position as much as they hate him. So it was good to see a

:56:47.:56:51.

bit of rage. He isn't there a great difference between Gen run --

:56:51.:56:55.

genuine passion and anger and slagging off the other side?

:56:55.:57:00.

Calling Ed Balls a muttering idiot is not quite of Ukrainian

:57:00.:57:08.

proportions. But it is still public school playground knockabout at its

:57:08.:57:15.

kindest. That is how it was perceived. Ed Balls himself is a

:57:15.:57:20.

public schoolboy. In deed. But in the long run, the more he gets

:57:21.:57:24.

riled up by Ed Balls, the more he will be determined to stop Ed Balls

:57:25.:57:29.

succeeding him. Gladstone let off steam by felling trees. Winston

:57:29.:57:36.

Churchill painted. Robert Walpole brewed his own beer. And our Prime

:57:36.:57:42.

Minister does fruit ninja. Before we go, let's find out the answer to

:57:42.:57:47.

our quiz. The question was which politician drag Toby Young under a

:57:48.:57:56.

table. Can you remember who it was? I can. It was the great UKIP leader

:57:56.:58:02.

himself, Nigel Farage. I had heard he was a legendary drinker, so

:58:02.:58:09.

rather mischievously, at a book party, I said to him, how about a

:58:09.:58:15.

drinking contest? Then he started lining up the vodka shots and

:58:15.:58:19.

started back in the way. Within an hour or so, he had won. You drank

:58:19.:58:25.

vodka shots from our? How many did you get through? Not as many as

:58:25.:58:28.

Nigel. He was still standing and very much compos mentis at the end

:58:28.:58:34.

of it. He thank you to both of you for being with me today and keeping

:58:34.:58:38.

the company. That is it for today. We thank all our guests. The One

:58:38.:58:44.

O'clock News is starting on BBC One now. I will be back on BBC One on

:58:44.:58:48.

Sunday at 11 o'clock in the morning, with the Sunday Politics. Hope you

:58:48.:58:52.

can join me then. But that is it for the Daily Politics. We are off

:58:52.:58:56.

Andrew Neil with the latest political news, interviews and debate. Andrew is joined by Toby Young and Mary Riddell and amongst other things they discuss Scottish independence, the Leveson Inquiry and education reform.


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