Browse content similar to 19/06/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Welcome to the Daily Politics. Despite the current state of the | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
world economy it was all smiles at the G20 summit in Mexico, but what | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
can they actually achieve? It used to be that a job in the civil | :00:56. | :01:04. | |
service was a job for life. Not any more. Later today the government | :01:04. | :01:08. | |
will say it wants to run Whitehall more like a business and make it | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
easier to sack staff, so is this a "very brave move" by ministers? | :01:11. | :01:19. | |
Cheaper childcare. All working parents want it, the government | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
thinks it knows how to get it. We'll look at the details. And is | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
it time to Go Dutch? We'll look at the calls for our towns and cities | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
to become a cyclist's best friend. All that in the next hour. And with | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
us for the whole programme today is the Guardian journalist, author and | :01:33. | :01:38. | |
chairman of the National Trust to boot, Simon Jenkins. Today world | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
leaders are preparing for their second day of talks at the Mexican | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
resort of Los Cabos... Poor things. The economic crisis in Europe is | :01:44. | :01:46. | |
naturally dominating proceedings. World leaders have urged Europe to | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
take all necessary steps to deal with the problems. However, the | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
talks were last night in danger of deteriorating into a damaging row | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
after comments from the President of the European Commission Jose | :01:55. | :01:57. | |
Manuel Barroso. Speaking to journalists Mr Barroso said the | :01:57. | :02:03. | |
crisis in Europe was, in fact, the fault of American banks. This | :02:03. | :02:12. | |
crisis was not originated in Europe, North America, but in North America. | :02:12. | :02:19. | |
Many of our financial sector were contaminated a buy, how can I put | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
it, unorthodox practice from some sectors of the financial market. | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
But we are not coming here to receive lessons in terms of | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
democracy, or how to handle the economy because it the European | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
Union has a model we should be proud of. We're not complacent | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
about the difficulties, we are open, I wish all partners were so open | :02:41. | :02:47. | |
about their own difficulties. We are engaging with partners but | :02:47. | :02:57. | |
:02:57. | :02:57. | ||
we're not coming here to receive lessons from anybody. He lost it a | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
bit there. Is he right though, should people in North America not | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
try to dictate to Europe when it was their fault the crisis started | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
there in 2000 an eight and somehow the eurozone is also their fault? | :03:09. | :03:15. | |
Everybody was burdened with this debt, it is ridiculous. I can see | :03:15. | :03:20. | |
how you loses his rag. These occasions really are pointless. Why | :03:20. | :03:27. | |
they have to go to Mexico and come to no agreement. They are not the | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
government of anything, they are a group of people gathering in Mexico, | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
wasting their time and clearly losing their re-rack. I honestly | :03:35. | :03:44. | |
find these things completely pointless. -- their re-rack. | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
2008 the G20 was worthwhile, sometimes -- somehow there was a | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
common cause to save the banks and the summit was a success and that | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
it is just they don't seem to know what to do, rather than the | :03:55. | :04:02. | |
institution itself is wrong? It has become the international | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
conglomerate for saving banks, it does not save the economy. 2000 an | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
eight was some time ago. Does not achieve what it set out to. Any | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
fool can save a bank by tipping money into it. But going to Mexico | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
does not save a bank. They are saved by governments putting money | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
into them. If Europe is to be saved at all it will be saved by the | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
Germans decided to do the right thing but they won't because they | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
will do what Germany has in its interests, which is to save German | :04:29. | :04:35. | |
banks. A do you think it is the end of the G 20? They will go to these | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
things up nauseam. There is a Euro- summit every three months now. What | :04:39. | :04:45. | |
is a telephone for? It was invented. They keep boasting about the | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
digital age, why do they have to go to expensive hotels were they just | :04:48. | :04:58. | |
:04:58. | :04:59. | ||
row. And probably some nice dinners. You always get to know the menu. | :04:59. | :05:09. | |
:05:09. | :05:16. | ||
Now it's time for our daily quiz. The question for today is... At the | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
end of the show Simon will give us the correct answer. I am sure you | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
can hazard a guess! Should our civil servants be a bit more, "Yes, | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
minister" and a bit less "that would be very brave, minister"? | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
Today the Government will tell us how it plans to improve the Civil | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
Service. The Civil Service currently employs around 430,000 | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
people and has existed as a politically neutral, merit-based | :05:38. | :05:44. | |
bureaucracy since the 1850s. But recently ministers have been | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
complaining that the mandarins are not up to the job, even getting the | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
blame for the recent pasty tax, caravan tax and charity tax fiascos. | :05:51. | :05:59. | |
And now Government ministers think it is time for a shake up. Steve | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
Hilton, the Prime Minister's former blue skies guru, was reported to | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
have wanted to cut the civil service by 90%. Cabinet Office | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
Minister Francis Maude won't go that far but he will unveil a | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
series of reform proposals, including allowing politicians to | :06:10. | :06:20. | |
:06:20. | :06:25. | ||
choose. -- choose the Civil Service heads of each department, | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
outsourcing policy-making to the private sector and plans to tell | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
the bottom 10% of civil servants to shape up or face the sack. Joining | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
me now is Peter Thomas from the Institute for Government, who's a | :06:34. | :06:36. | |
former Civil Servant who was involved in the government's | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
consultation on the civil service. What are ministers trying to | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
achieve that these reforms? The one to make sure they have a civil | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
service that can get through what is an unprecedented level of cuts | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
and deliver the best services it can for significantly less money -- | :06:48. | :06:53. | |
they want. Are they saying it can only be done making cuts? Civil | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
servants are also clear that the scale of the challenge is | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
unprecedented since the Second World War. They know they need to | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
do things differently and stop doing things if they are going to | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
deliver a civil service that can support whichever government they | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
are there to support. What is it being proposed here? What will | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
achieve it? We know they are going to try to get rid of the worst | :07:18. | :07:24. | |
performing 10%. What else will change that vision of the Civil | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
Service and Howard works in practice? We will see when it is | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
published later but what is much more important than some of those | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
elements is what is the Civil Service going to look like, what | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
kind of civil servants do you need? What job should be doing and what | :07:38. | :07:44. | |
should be stopped doing? It will obviously look smaller, it is clear | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
you need people who can work effectively with the private sector, | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
the public sector, more commercial skills, the pressure to increase | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
productivity is huge, so financial skills, good disciplines of basic | :07:57. | :08:05. | |
management. But it is politically neutral, unified, will be | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
threatened? I don't think so. It is one of their strengths, there are | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
plenty of structures in place to protect it. I would be surprised if | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
there was a significant change to that. Do you think you should be | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
protected above all else? That is the kind of signature of the | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
British political system that you have an independent, impartial | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
Civil Service working with the political government of the day. | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
don't see any great challenge to that. I would be surprised if we | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
saw something that substantially altered that. But you think with | :08:36. | :08:38. | |
these proposals it will look different and productivity will | :08:38. | :08:44. | |
improve? It has to. The Civil Service is already on a march to | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
being 25% smaller, some departments are taking out 50% of their costs. | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
Top teams have been halved in some departments. They have to do things | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
better. If they are going to minimise the impact on the front | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
line services that missable servants are involved in them they | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
have to raise productivity, they have to pick from the best practice | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
of the private sector, from of a public sector. It will be a test of | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
this plan. Is it addressing what most civil servants do, or just | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
plain with some interesting novelties around Whitehall and bits | :09:15. | :09:25. | |
:09:25. | :09:27. | ||
of policy-making? Thank you. Let's get more on this with the | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
Conservative MP Nick Boles and the former London Mayoral candidate and | :09:30. | :09:38. | |
former civil servant. --, Siobhan Beinta. We heard earlier that of | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
ministers are going to appoint directly to the top, it will no | :09:41. | :09:51. | |
:09:51. | :09:52. | ||
longer be a civil service? I don't You would actually have ministers | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
bringing in somebody to run the department, like in the US, I don't | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
think that is right, or the British way of doing things but I think the | :09:59. | :10:04. | |
idea that a minister can have influence over which civil servants, | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
independent, non-partisan, they work with, because the truth is | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
personalities matter, the fit and skills of a politician and civil | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
servant matter. I think it is reasonable as long as the people | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
they offered on all people who would pass the test of impartiality | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
and the qualifications for the job. But wouldn't it stretch the feeling | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
of impartiality if ministers are allowed, in whatever way you want | :10:31. | :10:36. | |
to describe it, basically a. People who they know will do the job they | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
want and in the way they want? That is no longer totally impartial, or | :10:41. | :10:47. | |
politically neutral. I think it is. The Civil Service is there to | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
deliver the policies of the elected government. They have always done | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
that without being appointed by ministers. All political parties | :10:54. | :10:59. | |
will agree on this - in the past the deliveries have not been | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
effective, or as quick, and the reason there are so many programmes | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
about this is because of this problem. I think it is a reasonable | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
way to deal with the problem of delivery without afeared -- | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
interfering in any way with the political impartiality of the civil | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
servants themselves. Do you accept that? There are many things about | :11:19. | :11:29. | |
the planned -- in the plan that I think will be welcomed. The bit I | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
think people will be most wary about is this thing about ministers | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
being able to appoint permanent secretaries. The reality is there | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
is always discussion when a new permanent secretary has appointed | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
anyway about whether they will fit with the minister. So to somehow | :11:43. | :11:50. | |
say we need to make this official does worry me. One of the big | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
things that is indeed about our civil service is its impartiality | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
and this seems to be removing that. This is thing I would be most | :11:57. | :12:03. | |
worried about. But are they a roadblock to reform? They are not | :12:03. | :12:08. | |
helping with delivery, then you run into problems with policies not | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
being implemented. It is always about human behaviour and how | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
people get on and if the relationships at the top of the | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
department are not working well, there has always been the ability | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
to move people around Whitehall. That has happened anyway. It is | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
this making it official that worries me. If it is a blockage and | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
things are not working well in a department people do get moved | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
around, that has always been the case. This is going a step too far. | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
Let's look at where it might have been a problem in terms of delivery. | :12:39. | :12:48. | |
The Budget. Do you blame civil servants for the shambles? I am | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
glad to say my colleagues stick to the principle that ministers take | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
responsibility for the things that go wrong. George Osborne as take | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
responsibility for those things in the Budget he has since had to | :12:59. | :13:09. | |
But in reality you cannot expect politicians to be able to be on top | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
of every single detail of implementation and so when things | :13:12. | :13:19. | |
don't work well I think it is reasonable to look at whether this | :13:19. | :13:27. | |
informal practice - and I think that is a problem in the civil | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
service, there are so many informal ways of doing things, we will sort | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
things out an hour classic way, if you are not happy with someone, we | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
promote them to another department without telling the other | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
department why we're not happy with them, let's bring this out into the | :13:39. | :13:45. | |
open, make it clear, a minister will have to justify in the Civil | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
Service and the Commission and the media why the move this person. | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
Isn't that a better way of dealing with it? Do you accept that? For me | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
it is crazy to think that something like the Budget could have got | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
there without ministers signing them off. It is very easy for | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
ministers when the going gets tough, when things go wrong, for them to | :14:04. | :14:09. | |
turn around and blame senior officials. I specifically did not | :14:09. | :14:17. | |
do that. You did not but others did. There were things about it that the | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
Budget was pet project of civil servants that slipped through. Is | :14:22. | :14:28. | |
it the case every administration cut that the policy through a few | :14:28. | :14:34. | |
years in and blame the civil service? Yes. I think it is a | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
sensible way of approaching it, the simple thing is the calibre of the | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
civil servants and the problem there is you have a huge wall of | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
lobbying facing Whitehall to the extent that it was not the case 30 | :14:45. | :14:51. | |
years ago. In those days the Civil Service was more self confident, | :14:51. | :15:01. | |
:15:01. | :15:05. | ||
Now, it is taken this way and that. Ministers understandably want | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
better civil servants. Isn't it the pressure to try to politicise the | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
Civil Service? I think that is a red herring. On the whole, civil | :15:15. | :15:21. | |
servants do what they ministers want. The problem now, in | :15:21. | :15:27. | |
experienced ministers are up against... There are not 50 | :15:27. | :15:33. | |
political lobbyists for nothing. These people are very potent in the | :15:34. | :15:40. | |
Government now. I joined the Civil Service in 1996, it was in reform | :15:40. | :15:45. | |
then and it has been in constant reform. One thing that does not get | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
addressed his ministerial behaviour and performance. It is about making | :15:50. | :15:55. | |
Government work better. I would like to see a plan on how to make | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
Government more effective and that it would involve ministers as well | :15:59. | :16:06. | |
as officials. What do you think of that? I had some sympathy for it. | :16:06. | :16:12. | |
Most ministers are drawn from a relatively small pool of MPs are | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
elected for the governing parties. But the Institute for Government, | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
the gentleman you interviewed earlier has made some proposals and | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
done some work with this Government and the opposition, to help get | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
ministers ready for the duties they will have to fulfil, how to deal | :16:28. | :16:34. | |
with a crisis for its sample. Maybe go through crisis-management with | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
people who have done it professionally. Or you can do is | :16:39. | :16:44. | |
make ministers better prepared for their job. Just before we leave it, | :16:44. | :16:49. | |
this 10%, the worst performing civil servants who will have a year | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
before they face dismissal, is that just amongst senior civil servants | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
or all rebels? My understanding is, one of the regular things that | :16:59. | :17:04. | |
comes up in surveys is the frustration that civil servants | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
have with the lack of performance management. People don't like to | :17:07. | :17:13. | |
work with other people who are lazy, incompetent or feckless. There is | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
no proper performance management in the Civil Service. I suspect it | :17:17. | :17:26. | |
goes through organisations as it will do with television talons as | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
well. As any working parent knows | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
childcare is an expensive business. The Government, which is keen to | :17:32. | :17:34. | |
encourage more parents back to work, has this morning launched a | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
consultation into how to make childcare more affordable. It could | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
lead the relaxation of some of the rules surrounding looking after | :17:40. | :17:42. | |
children and extending after school clubs. Kate Conway is on College | :17:42. | :17:51. | |
Green with more. Downing Street regards the costs of child care as | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
one of the most pressing issues for families worried about their living | :17:55. | :18:02. | |
standards. One MP has been pushing for changes in the childcare sector, | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
who joins me now. We also have the shadow children's minister. Liz, | :18:07. | :18:14. | |
what would you like to see change? Britain spends a lot on child care, | :18:14. | :18:19. | |
we spend more as the Government's, but we get less for our money. | :18:19. | :18:25. | |
Parents are paying 27% of their income in child care. I would like | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
to see the regulatory system slim down. I would like to see just | :18:29. | :18:36. | |
Ofsted regulating. I would like to see the ratios moved. We do have | :18:36. | :18:41. | |
the lowest ratio which pushes up costs for parents. I want to see | :18:41. | :18:46. | |
the funding streams reduced to just one funding scheme, so we are not | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
wasting money on the bureaucracy in the system. Lisa, we know one of | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
the reasons childminders have left the procession is because of the | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
curriculum in the system and the bureaucracy. What do we do about | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
that? The real reason childminders leave the profession is because of | :19:02. | :19:09. | |
the devaluing of the profession itself. 85% of child minders say | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
they welcome the individual inspections Liz is not keen on. | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
What we need to do if we want to cut costs to parents and the | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
Government, if we want to increase the clock -- quality and supply of | :19:20. | :19:25. | |
childminders, we have to raise the status of the profession. I am | :19:25. | :19:30. | |
concerned at some of the suggestions about removing what are | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
actually the props to increase standards for children Colton the | :19:34. | :19:41. | |
break -- ultimately is not in the interests of children. I am not | :19:41. | :19:47. | |
talking about reducing standards. The average child minder earns | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
about �11,000 a year. It is not enough to attract more people to | :19:51. | :19:55. | |
the profession. We have to look at what the rest of the world are | :19:55. | :20:02. | |
doing, they have Orazio of 5-1, and not 3-1. They can look at the more | :20:02. | :20:08. | |
children and offer better value. I am saying, let's slimline | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
deregulation has. At the moment, childminders are checked by Ofsted | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
and local authorities. Let's give nurseries are more power over what | :20:16. | :20:25. | |
they do, academy status like we do it in schools. We spent 7 billion, | :20:25. | :20:30. | |
3.5000 for each child care place. It is a lot of money and I want to | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
see more of that in the hands of parents going into higher charity | :20:34. | :20:39. | |
Best high quality childcare. It is because of the skills are working | :20:39. | :20:47. | |
in the industry in our country, but that is a contradiction. It is a | :20:47. | :20:53. | |
chicken and egg problem. If we are playing in a month wage, �11,000 a | :20:53. | :20:58. | |
year, it is difficult to recruit skilled people. Nurseries are | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
struggling to keep afloat, childminders are leaving. We have | :21:02. | :21:08. | |
half as many childminders as we did 10 years ago. In Holland, they have | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
a higher ratio, twice as many childminders per head as we do and | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
parents are satisfied with the flexible childcare they get. Lisa, | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
women are leaving the workplace and the number of women working has | :21:20. | :21:26. | |
been a problem for the past decade, it is not a recent problem. It | :21:26. | :21:32. | |
requires billions, in needs to be committed to proper universal | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
childcare we can all afford? Government has to make this a | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
priority. If we were in Government it would be the same. If you go to | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
countries like Sweden, Norway Denmark... It means billions though | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
doesn't it? It's is a priority in terms of raising the status of the | :21:49. | :21:56. | |
profession. I do disagree with Liz, the great parallel but this is in | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
social work. The Government had issued a report, which means | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
raising the status of the profession is the way to attract | :22:03. | :22:11. | |
good quality people. I support raising the status of the | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
profession. That is what I'm talking about. But that is not | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
about having tick box exercises and ratios out of line with other | :22:19. | :22:29. | |
:22:29. | :22:30. | ||
countries. Thanks to both barer much -- very much. It will be a key | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
issue at the next election among women voters. | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
My guest, Simon Jenkins is the Chairman of the National Trust | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
which is probably best known as the organisation which looks after the | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
nation's historic houses and opens them to the public. But it's not | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
all Downton Abbey and cream teas. It's also Europe's biggest | :22:48. | :22:50. | |
conservation charity and a powerful voice lobbying the Government on | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
heritage, the environment and food policy. The National Trust was | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
founded in 1895. It looks after more than 300 historic houses along | :22:58. | :23:04. | |
with areas of natural beauty and hundreds of miles of coastline. | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
Membership now stands above four million. And with so many | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
supporters the Trust has a lot of clout. Last year it organised a | :23:11. | :23:13. | |
petition against the Government's proposals on planning reform | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
leading to significant changes. They were also involved in the | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
campaign that led to a government U-turn on plans to privatise that | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
nation's forests. And they've been raising concerns about the some of | :23:23. | :23:29. | |
the potential impacts of HS2. Some people have suggested that by | :23:29. | :23:31. | |
becoming involved in these campaigns, the Trust has become too | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
political. Simon Jenkins is of course the Chairman of the National | :23:36. | :23:42. | |
Trust and I'm also joined by Claire Fox from the Institute of Ideas. Do | :23:42. | :23:47. | |
you think the allegation it has become too political is true? | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
are having an impact on the body politic. I was frustrated in | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
relation to the planning discussion. One of the big things we need at | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
the moment is to build more houses. It is hardly a great insight as the | :24:01. | :24:07. | |
housing stock has not been renewed and is at an all-time low. There is | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
something like -- about the National Trust, whilst I always | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
enjoyed the houses and natural beauty, they have become the | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
leaders of the green take brigade that stop us developing. And | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
because they are the National Trust, they get away with having the | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
credibility that comes with it, that means everybody has to stop | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
and listen. I kind of which they would keep out of the politics and | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
just look after the houses. They should keep out of the politics? | :24:36. | :24:41. | |
are not allowed to be political, we are a charity. We do campaign very | :24:41. | :24:46. | |
rarely. The any campaign we have launched in decades was on the | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
Planning Bill. It is usually political. You cannot save the | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
National Trust does not get involved in political campaigns? | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
Those campaigns to have political impact, there is no question about | :24:58. | :25:04. | |
that. But we do very little of it. But we were founded as a political | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
party. When you have a discussion on the need to develop on green- | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
belt land, often the National Trust, whether you like it or not is a | :25:14. | :25:21. | |
voice that suddenly gets heard. And the high-speed train is another one. | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
It is one thing about not liking the nitty-gritty of the Planning | :25:24. | :25:29. | |
Bill, but what is argued is, we shouldn't touch this green land, | :25:29. | :25:35. | |
places of natural beauty. It is scaremongering of the worst order. | :25:35. | :25:40. | |
We are going to build over every part of the natural world. Only 10% | :25:40. | :25:48. | |
of the UK is developed. You must be the last person speaking on the | :25:48. | :25:57. | |
first draft of that bill. arguments used was not nit-picking? | :25:57. | :26:03. | |
We criticise the document. It was something like this will lead to | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
the greater sprawl into the countryside since the 1930s. That | :26:06. | :26:11. | |
is true. That came from the CPRE, but we supported little stock it | :26:12. | :26:18. | |
was a quote from your website. point I'm making it is was not on | :26:18. | :26:24. | |
the finer details, it was a broad brush, frightening tactics. If you | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
look at the amendments, it will hold things back again. On the main | :26:28. | :26:33. | |
point, no one is opposing development. This was a question of | :26:33. | :26:39. | |
whether you give in to two lobbies. One was a high-speed train | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
construction lobby and the House builders Federation. They want to | :26:43. | :26:48. | |
build on green land which is cheap and profitable. We want to build in | :26:48. | :26:53. | |
towns, where the infrastructure is in place. There is no shortage of | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
land in this country. There is no shortage of land in this country, | :26:57. | :27:02. | |
some of it is green. There is nothing wrong with building there. | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
Sprawl is what is called ordinary people having homes in new places | :27:06. | :27:11. | |
and not being crowded in around towns that are already overcrowded. | :27:11. | :27:16. | |
What you had just said is a broader, ideological political statement and | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
fiddling around the edges of the bill. Should you be playing that | :27:19. | :27:26. | |
role? Our mission is to defend the open spaces of England. I cannot | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
pretend we are in favour of building houses every work. We | :27:30. | :27:32. | |
wouldn't have done this if it wasn't for the first terrible | :27:32. | :27:38. | |
document. It was a building permit system. Nobody in England wants to | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
see the sort of thing you have got in Ireland. Claire's general point | :27:42. | :27:48. | |
is the National Trust has a vision clearly set out. Is it using that | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
romantic vision for Britain which does not represent all parts of the | :27:52. | :27:57. | |
country, but it has so much power and clowns that it is being | :27:57. | :28:05. | |
unfairly represented? It has no more cloud than anybody from the | :28:05. | :28:10. | |
Guardian would have said. Most people want to defend green belt. | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
The National Trust is in danger of getting jumbled up with the kind of | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
environmentalism default position, which is to argue against | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
development. I don't think the National Trust should do it. | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
There's nothing wrong with the National Trust having old houses. | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
I'm not suggesting we knock-down all the great places you defend and | :28:30. | :28:35. | |
built tower blocks. But there is a danger there is a sense we are | :28:35. | :28:40. | |
saying, sustainability. That means limits. There is endless attempts | :28:40. | :28:45. | |
to say that we shouldn't do. We need more high-speed rail. My | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
problem with it is we haven't built at high speed link since the | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
Victorian era. Just because they hold the opposing view and it is | :28:53. | :28:58. | |
the National Trust, it is still legitimate? I'm not arguing they | :28:58. | :29:03. | |
shouldn't speak. This was set up as that kind of discussion. We should | :29:03. | :29:08. | |
be open about the fact you are lobbying and political. So we | :29:08. | :29:13. | |
should have a political argument about it. We are lobbying. I won't | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
buy into the high-speed rail lobby, it is a commercial, industrial | :29:17. | :29:23. | |
lobby. Our argument is dispassionate. We are not opposed | :29:23. | :29:27. | |
to development. I travelled the country looking at brownfield sites. | :29:27. | :29:33. | |
I have never seen so much land. think we should build on them, too. | :29:33. | :29:41. | |
We will get you to back together. It is 38 days and counting since | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
the Olympics gets under way. The Government say it will come in on | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
time at around half a billion pounds under budget, and most of | :29:48. | :29:54. | |
the buildings have commercial plans agreed by after the Games. So for | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
those like Simon Jenkins, who criticised the plans, and wrong | :29:58. | :30:04. | |
after all? Under budget and on time - the kind | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
of headline Olympic organisers would have dreamed of when this | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
project first got off the ground. The venue's completed a year ago | :30:12. | :30:17. | |
were built by thousands of different companies simultaneously. | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
Allergist will challenge that deserves applause, according to the | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
firm who built the aquatic centre. We have had multiple contractors. | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
Most of the big names in the industry have been working on the | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
infrastructure. Most of the people involved in the delivery, the | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
establishment of the logistics centres for materials and equipment | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
moving. It was a complicated undertaking and underlines the | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
achievement of having done it in the time and ahead of when it is | :30:44. | :30:54. | |
:30:54. | :30:55. | ||
It was a different picture in Athens eight years ago and the | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
government has been keen to point out the 2012 games will come in | :30:59. | :31:05. | |
under budget. It was announced early this month that �476 million | :31:05. | :31:10. | |
will be left over from the entire budget. And that the extra �19 | :31:10. | :31:13. | |
million needed to cover crowd control and public information | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
costs would be paid for from money within the Olympic budget. But the | :31:16. | :31:22. | |
cost of building all of this have been estimated at 2.4 billion when | :31:23. | :31:30. | |
first -- London first got the game's seven years ago. -- the | :31:30. | :31:38. | |
games. Simon Jenkins was watching that and I'm also joined by soon to | :31:38. | :31:48. | |
be Dame Tessa -- so it has cost more then than it was thought it | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
would. But what happens after the Games are over? This man spent the | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
last three years working that out. The Olympic Park is not just a | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
sports stadium but also communities, five new neighbourhoods, 7,000 | :32:01. | :32:08. | |
homes, it is all integrated. Most of these venues already have their | :32:08. | :32:12. | |
legacy uses secured so we know there will not be white elephants | :32:12. | :32:18. | |
here. But will there be ducks? This was Barcelona's diving Centre on | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
our last visit, now largely unused since the 1992 games but there have | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
been success stories in Barcelona like the beach built for the | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
Olympics Andy games enhance the city's image with visitor numbers | :32:29. | :32:37. | |
of -- visitor numbers doubled in the decade that followed. You have | :32:37. | :32:43. | |
the largest urban Mall in Europe, an interest in housing all around, | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
you cannot get the housing development and that is because the | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
Olympics accelerated that process. It would not have happened but for | :32:49. | :32:54. | |
the Olympic Investment. So there is confidence here that the Games will | :32:54. | :33:00. | |
not be overshadowed by a less than lasting legacy. | :33:00. | :33:07. | |
Simon Jenkins was watching that as well as Dame Tessa Jowell, Olympics | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
minister under the last government and now a shadow minister for the | :33:10. | :33:17. | |
Games. Welcome. So it has come in on time under budget. Are you | :33:17. | :33:24. | |
relieved? I expected it. If you travel the budget. That is not an | :33:24. | :33:29. | |
issue. I have always been impressed by the capacity of the British | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
construction industry to do a good job. I congratulate them on it. It | :33:34. | :33:39. | |
is also a wonderful sight, park, I am still sceptical about all the | :33:39. | :33:45. | |
legacy but there will be legacy there. You can argue whether it | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
should have cost 9 billion and yesterday it was at Greenwich which | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
has been completely destroyed by a huge stadium. It was supposed to be | :33:53. | :34:00. | |
in a park. Some of the things work, like Stratford, some things have | :34:00. | :34:05. | |
not worked, I think Greenwich is an outrage. It is a great triumph for | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
British construction, no argument. What about the issue of legacy. We | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
heard there that that part of London would not have got the | :34:14. | :34:19. | |
regeneration it clearly has an that will benefit not just that area but | :34:19. | :34:23. | |
will have wider repercussions economically, too. Maybe. There is | :34:23. | :34:29. | |
no evidence it has affected house prices. But that aside, if you have | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
to have an Olympics to find 9 billion to regenerate east London | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
it is a poor, and on our democracy. Is this really the only way to | :34:37. | :34:42. | |
regenerate the East End? Is it? it would not have happened had we | :34:42. | :34:50. | |
not won the right to host the We have accelerated the | :34:50. | :34:58. | |
regeneration of that area in six years with regeneration of 60 years. | :34:58. | :35:02. | |
We submitted an indicative budget which did not take full account of | :35:02. | :35:09. | |
our regeneration. 75p of every pound of the roundabout 7 billion | :35:09. | :35:14. | |
that will have been spent on building the park will have been | :35:14. | :35:19. | |
spent on regeneration. Cleaning the soil, decontaminating soil, getting | :35:19. | :35:24. | |
rid of the waterlogging. So we not only have the largest new urban | :35:24. | :35:31. | |
parking Europe for 150 years but new homes, 2,800 homes after the | :35:31. | :35:38. | |
Games. More homes to be built over the next 15 years. Is that down to | :35:38. | :35:43. | |
the Olympics legacy, or improve transport links. The improved links | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
were intensified and increased by virtue of the Olympics. Certainly | :35:48. | :35:53. | |
the Westfield shopping centre was planned for some time but remember, | :35:53. | :36:02. | |
a round-the-world, retail developers were pulling out of | :36:02. | :36:08. | |
shopping centres. The Lowing family said with that -- stuck with that. | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
The Retail Academy is training and people from the area in the retail | :36:12. | :36:20. | |
industry. -- young people. Do you think the economic boost will | :36:20. | :36:30. | |
:36:30. | :36:34. | ||
In a way, part of the legacy has been realised and �6 billion into | :36:34. | :36:39. | |
UK plc not just in London but firms around the country so when you look | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
at the Olympic Park, the stadium, you can tell a story of | :36:44. | :36:49. | |
construction and skill brought from the whole of the UK. That was very | :36:50. | :36:53. | |
important in 2008 when the downturn really hit the construction | :36:53. | :37:03. | |
industry. What about the effect on other lives of Londoners? I don't | :37:03. | :37:13. | |
:37:13. | :37:16. | ||
It is going to be a disaster for London's hotels. One third of them | :37:16. | :37:21. | |
will be empty in August. It is a catastrophe for anybody working in | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
London. Raising the expectations that everybody will make a mint out | :37:25. | :37:31. | |
of it was unhelpful because it will lead a lot of people to invest in | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
things which will not be there for the Olympics. It is wrong to | :37:34. | :37:40. | |
persuade people this is a fantastic event, it will be some Olympic | :37:40. | :37:45. | |
Games, let's enjoy them. Have expectations been ever managed in a | :37:45. | :37:51. | |
sense? There is a worry at the lives of Londoners will be a | :37:51. | :37:56. | |
nightmare trying to get to work, carrying on normal business. They | :37:56. | :38:01. | |
have been told not to work. Or to work from home. But many people in | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
London already do. I think they will be days in London where it | :38:05. | :38:12. | |
will be very hard to go about your normal business. But five days in | :38:12. | :38:17. | |
an Olympics, and overwhelmingly London is looking forward to this | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
and looking forward to welcoming people from around the world. And | :38:21. | :38:26. | |
of course there will be days there will be difficult and there were | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
days when if you are not going to see something in the mouth I would | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
probably stay away from central London and go and watch the events | :38:33. | :38:40. | |
on the big screens. But is it justified to making London's | :38:40. | :38:46. | |
subservient to Olympic the IPs, with special lanes and extra fast | :38:46. | :38:56. | |
:38:56. | :39:05. | ||
emergency treatment, it was Olympic lanes are to avoid the | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
situation that happened in Atlanta where summer Olympic -- athletes | :39:08. | :39:13. | |
missed their events because of traffic. And what about the media? | :39:13. | :39:21. | |
They are the greatest users, 18,000 media will use the Olympic lanes. | :39:21. | :39:30. | |
Why can't they get their earlier? It is so the games out in East | :39:30. | :39:34. | |
London can get easily to the park, but the quickest way if you are not | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
in an Olympic Lane is to get public transport. Seven minutes from | :39:38. | :39:43. | |
King's Cross to Stratford would not have happened without the Olympics. | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
Are you going? Like almost all Londoners I have been told to get | :39:48. | :39:54. | |
out. The government is engineering a recession this summer. I would | :39:54. | :39:59. | |
like to know how it can be a profit for London. I hope they are a great | :39:59. | :40:04. | |
success but honestly, to inflict this on London was not kind. Ready? | :40:04. | :40:12. | |
Is that not a bit killjoy? There has been no boost when the Olympic | :40:13. | :40:16. | |
city so the argument for London was it would be different, it will not | :40:16. | :40:22. | |
be. The displacement effect is distinctive. No other tourists are | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
coming to London this summer. That is a big loss. But they will come | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
after this year, which is how you build the long-term tourism legacy. | :40:31. | :40:35. | |
They were coming anyway. I will stop you there. Enjoy. I don't | :40:35. | :40:44. | |
think you'll get anywhere with that. It has been going on for years! | :40:44. | :40:49. | |
Conservatives' chief fund raiser has been forced to resign. Lord | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
think has been accused by Labour of breaking parliamentary rules after | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
he agreed to host a dinner for American Express cardholders. He | :40:56. | :41:01. | |
said he had agreed to sponsor the dinner in return for a donation to | :41:01. | :41:07. | |
Guy's and St Thomas's Hospital in London but Labour says this was a | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
"flagrant attempt to breach the rules" and have called on him to | :41:10. | :41:13. | |
resign or be sacked. The Conservatives say the event was | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
cancelled last week when it became clear it may have been in breach of | :41:16. | :41:22. | |
the rules. Lord Fink was appointed to treasurer in March, replacing | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
Peter goddess. He had to resign after being secretly filmed | :41:25. | :41:35. | |
:41:35. | :41:35. | ||
apparently offering access to David Cameron for a donation of �250,000. | :41:35. | :41:40. | |
Labour said yesterday that he should resign, is that still your | :41:40. | :41:47. | |
position? He certainly has to consider his position. The rules | :41:47. | :41:53. | |
have been very clear after this practice of selling space in | :41:53. | :41:58. | |
Parliament came a few years ago. What we all are you claiming Lord | :41:58. | :42:04. | |
Fink has broken? It has been categorical you cannot use | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
Parliament for fund raising -- rule. You cannot even have a charity | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
auction, those are the rules. Whether that should change is | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
another matter but those are the roles and the reason they are there | :42:16. | :42:19. | |
is because one person's charity as another person's political | :42:19. | :42:24. | |
operation. But you would not argue Guy's and St Thomas's is not a | :42:24. | :42:28. | |
valid cause in a sense. And charities do advertise openly on | :42:28. | :42:34. | |
line dinners, don't they? So I don't see how this was a fundraiser | :42:34. | :42:40. | |
in the way you put it. It was not for commercial benefit. It was a | :42:40. | :42:43. | |
fundraiser for charity and the danger with that there are good | :42:43. | :42:49. | |
charities and ambiguous ones. It is to stop parties and politicians | :42:49. | :42:54. | |
using Westminster to fund raised. That was endemic and it should not | :42:54. | :42:59. | |
be allowed, that is why it. To. The rules are clear. Endemic under | :42:59. | :43:07. | |
Labour? All parties were doing it, particularly the Tories. The rules | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
are clear and the Tories do not seem to have any systems in place | :43:11. | :43:21. | |
:43:21. | :43:22. | ||
for keeping control of their top You have set out it is a breach of | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
the Rolls. But is it really appropriate to say he should | :43:26. | :43:31. | |
resign? The dinner never happened. I would call it a minor breach of | :43:31. | :43:37. | |
the rules. However, he is a major figure Andy. It's if you are in | :43:37. | :43:42. | |
charge of fund-raising for the Conservative Party and you are | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
breaking rules on the fund raising there is a hugely bigger problem -- | :43:46. | :43:52. | |
and the point is. People doing fund-raising have to be absolute on | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
the Rolls, otherwise everything is a grey area. We have had enough | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
problems with politicians and money, which is why the rules must be | :43:59. | :44:05. | |
absolute. It is a minor breach of the rules and although there has | :44:05. | :44:08. | |
been a lot of controversy about fund-raising and donations, it is | :44:08. | :44:18. | |
not the same as the allegation against the former treasurer. | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
do not want to abuse Parliament but in all my life I have been going to | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
events in Parliament which are quite clearly designed to raise | :44:25. | :44:32. | |
money for somebody somewhere. I would get the whole lot out. It is | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
a place for MPs and secretaries and that is it. You go there now and | :44:36. | :44:43. | |
the place is of Rausch -- awash with the lobbyists and others. | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
they being fairly used and attributed? If it is going on all | :44:47. | :44:57. | |
I was amazed to hear this rule. There are going on all the time. | :44:57. | :45:02. | |
The rule came up after another MP and myself could do about the party | :45:02. | :45:05. | |
political funding. The dining rooms were full of it every night, people | :45:05. | :45:10. | |
bringing people to sell spaces, access. Parliament belongs to the | :45:10. | :45:19. | |
Is it just too much of an exaggeration to say Lord Fink | :45:19. | :45:25. | |
should resign, and is it failure in the Conservative Party? Who is | :45:25. | :45:31. | |
running the Conservative Party at the top. It is not a minor MP. A | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
man at the top doing fundraising. If you are breaching the rules, | :45:36. | :45:41. | |
however minor on fund-raising, there is a bigger problem. If you | :45:41. | :45:44. | |
breached one well, the danger is you will reach another one. The you | :45:44. | :45:51. | |
are happy to go through labour politicians? Every politician, | :45:51. | :45:55. | |
every politician. It's very rare these days that a British | :45:56. | :45:58. | |
politician is proud to say they are taking their policies from Europe, | :45:59. | :46:02. | |
but the Mayor of London, Boris Johnson seems to be the exception. | :46:02. | :46:04. | |
Under pressure from cyclists during the mayoral elections, Boris | :46:04. | :46:06. | |
Johnson signed up to the "Love London, Go Dutch" campaign, | :46:06. | :46:09. | |
agreeing to adopt some of the cycling policies from Europe's | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
number one cycling nation. So could our towns and cities be as cycling | :46:12. | :46:22. | |
:46:22. | :46:27. | ||
mad as the Dutch? Andrew Cryan went to Holland to find out. | :46:27. | :46:33. | |
No helmets, no high-visibility jackets and no panic look on | :46:33. | :46:41. | |
people's faces. Welcome to Holland, the No. 1 Cycling City. Between 50 | :46:41. | :46:47. | |
and 60% of Transport is done on a bicycle. Compare that to London, | :46:47. | :46:51. | |
which is only 3%. But this is down two decades of sometimes very | :46:51. | :46:59. | |
controversial decisions. Once upon a time, Holland had similar traffic | :46:59. | :47:05. | |
to the UK, congested roads were hard for cyclists. By the 1970s, | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
the soaring number of road deaths involving children became an | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
outrage. Dutch politicians are made an enemy of the car and a friend of | :47:13. | :47:19. | |
the bicycle. This man was one of them. There was a strong resentment | :47:19. | :47:25. | |
towards the car. The idea this street is something you play on as | :47:25. | :47:30. | |
a child, that you should had comfort, it should be comfortable | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
to shop and walk around was a strong sentiment. We did not call | :47:34. | :47:40. | |
it ecological, but it was in a sense. What was important is there | :47:40. | :47:47. | |
was a strong political debate on who is the owner of the street. | :47:47. | :47:52. | |
winner here was definitely the bicycle. It is easy to see how they | :47:52. | :47:56. | |
did it. Cars and bikes were separated whenever possible. And | :47:56. | :48:01. | |
where they meet, cyclists have the priority, like on this roundabout. | :48:01. | :48:06. | |
There are special traffic lights and parking your bike is very | :48:06. | :48:10. | |
rarely a problem, at a local railway station they have 6,000 | :48:10. | :48:19. | |
spaces. At London Bridge there is just 400., this is beautiful to | :48:19. | :48:24. | |
cycle, but can we apply it to London? A lot of cyclists think we | :48:24. | :48:29. | |
can. Before this Lord Mayor election, the streets of the | :48:29. | :48:33. | |
capital were filled with people who want to go Dutch. The Lord Mayor | :48:33. | :48:38. | |
signed up to the campaign. But anyone expecting London's roads to | :48:38. | :48:43. | |
be the same as the Netherlands, after just four years, shouldn't | :48:43. | :48:46. | |
hold their breath. Joining me now is Mustafa Arif, | :48:46. | :48:51. | |
Chair of Campaigns at the London Cycling Campaign. Are you | :48:51. | :48:55. | |
advocating cyclists should own the streets of London? The people | :48:55. | :49:00. | |
should own the streets. We want London to be a more Liverpool city | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
for everyone by making it as safe and inviting the cycling as in | :49:04. | :49:10. | |
Holland. How do you make those streets safer? You saw some | :49:10. | :49:17. | |
techniques in the film where they have reduced and closed off through | :49:18. | :49:24. | |
traffic in busy, urban centres. But there is a whole range of solutions, | :49:24. | :49:28. | |
that is used in some places. In other places they will separate and | :49:28. | :49:32. | |
segregate the traffic on the streets so they have separate lanes | :49:32. | :49:37. | |
for the cycles. You're talking about a different infrastructure on | :49:37. | :49:42. | |
the roads. Separation of cyclists and vehicles and better lanes for | :49:42. | :49:48. | |
cyclists, even when they are Longside vehicles? Separation and | :49:48. | :49:53. | |
better quality. Were that be better for London, less dependency on the | :49:53. | :49:58. | |
car and public transport? There is a lot of traffic, and most of that | :49:58. | :50:03. | |
film was taken in small backstreets of small towns. Be could work in | :50:03. | :50:10. | |
other cities across the UK? It does, it works in Oxford and Cambridge | :50:10. | :50:14. | |
and plenty of places I have been through. But the great breakthrough | :50:14. | :50:24. | |
:50:24. | :50:32. | ||
will come, if you don't endlessly separate. You create a pattern of a | :50:32. | :50:36. | |
street in which everyone is using it all of the time. Traffic is | :50:36. | :50:44. | |
slowed down but you don't separate. You make sure people, cars, buses | :50:44. | :50:50. | |
and cyclists police each other. As in Germany, in Holland and other | :50:50. | :50:57. | |
places in Europe, accidents reduced. Speed reduces, and it is safer. | :50:57. | :51:01. | |
That is changing culture which will be hard to do it you don't do | :51:01. | :51:06. | |
anything to the infrastructure? Dutch do not wear helmets. Why | :51:06. | :51:12. | |
don't they were Helmut? They know it is safe. Sometimes it is | :51:12. | :51:16. | |
mechanical, to make it easier for people to use the streets. If you | :51:16. | :51:21. | |
have endless flights, signs and lanes, cars think they are safe, | :51:21. | :51:26. | |
everybody thinks they are safe when they are not. His that the vision | :51:26. | :51:31. | |
on how we should progress? Hands Mandolin is not seen as the | :51:31. | :51:40. | |
authority of traffic engineering in the Netherlands. There is a quote | :51:40. | :51:49. | |
from the head of bicycle lane design in Amsterdam, he said he had | :51:49. | :51:55. | |
not heard of this policy. They do have reduced accident rates, but | :51:55. | :52:02. | |
you see in those areas that people cycle less. I used to be a student | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
at Imperial College and I did campaign for the scheme will stop I | :52:06. | :52:10. | |
do regret that because I know from students and staff who last over, | :52:10. | :52:14. | |
they hate it. It as made this street more dangerous because they | :52:14. | :52:23. | |
did not reduce the amount of traffic to make it work. Traffic | :52:23. | :52:29. | |
speed has gone down. But the number of cyclists have gone up. In London, | :52:29. | :52:36. | |
and other cities, and in other cities around the UK, it might be | :52:37. | :52:41. | |
easier to use the technique, but in London it is not safe enough is it | :52:41. | :52:44. | |
with the high number of vehicles that exist without separation? | :52:44. | :52:52. | |
You'll not get exclusive cycle routes in London. The most | :52:52. | :52:56. | |
problematic thing in London, is a lot of people using the street. | :52:56. | :53:00. | |
There is no way you can separate them, but you might make them safer | :53:00. | :53:05. | |
by slowing the traffic. There are a dozen different ways on slowing the | :53:05. | :53:10. | |
traffic, you have to do it. Transport for London assumed half | :53:10. | :53:15. | |
of all car journeys are under two miles. A lot of the journeys could | :53:15. | :53:20. | |
be done by bicycle. People will do it if they felt it is safe enough. | :53:20. | :53:24. | |
It is viable on the main roads to have separate space. | :53:24. | :53:27. | |
The next instalment of the Alistair Campbell Diaries is out and yet | :53:27. | :53:30. | |
again it's causing front page news. However there's another set of | :53:30. | :53:33. | |
diaries from that era that's also been causing quite a stir, so much | :53:33. | :53:37. | |
so that they've been turned into a play that's about to hit the West | :53:37. | :53:40. | |
End. Called 'A Walk-On Part', it's been adapted from the diaries of | :53:40. | :53:42. | |
the former Labour Minister Chris Mullin, and gives a unique insight | :53:42. | :53:45. | |
into the workings of the New Labour government. Here's a sneak preview | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
of their rehearsals where then Prime Minister Tony Blair, is being | :53:48. | :53:55. | |
quizzed about plans to clip Rupert Murdoch's wings. | :53:55. | :54:02. | |
I am much sure it is a good idea. He is trying to sink his | :54:02. | :54:06. | |
competitors with pricing? Are we sure that is what he is trying to | :54:06. | :54:12. | |
do? He is trying to destroy the Independent and we have to stop him. | :54:12. | :54:17. | |
Somebody, even myself might be tempted to put it back in. If you | :54:17. | :54:24. | |
think it is a good idea, Chris, go ahead but Tom's amendment must go. | :54:24. | :54:30. | |
We have to come into line with Europe. They have Murdoch and we | :54:30. | :54:38. | |
haven't. I have a date with Bill Clinton. All affability again, the | :54:38. | :54:42. | |
man is off to catch Concorde. Joining me now is Chris Mullin and | :54:42. | :54:48. | |
the actor who's playing Chris Mullin, John Hodgkinson. | :54:48. | :54:54. | |
Why do you think it works so well on the stage? It is presenting a | :54:54. | :54:58. | |
different view of politicians. The general public, most of us feel | :54:58. | :55:03. | |
with justification, politicians are crooks and charlatans, and this is | :55:03. | :55:13. | |
one who isn't. You could not have put it better yourself, Chris | :55:13. | :55:22. | |
Mullin's Bostock I could not. It does work very effectively? | :55:22. | :55:28. | |
Astonishingly well. I was sceptical when they said they wanted to do it. | :55:29. | :55:35. | |
There is some brilliant acting, and standing in the case of John. | :55:35. | :55:43. | |
has got your voice quite well. is quite similar in many ways. | :55:43. | :55:53. | |
long did you have to practise that? Not long. When I went to see the | :55:53. | :55:57. | |
rehearsal in Newcastle, they asked what I thought of his performance. | :55:57. | :56:02. | |
I said the last person who played make was John Howard, he was better | :56:02. | :56:09. | |
than John Hurt. The other actors made him a T-shirt with "better | :56:09. | :56:16. | |
than John Hurt". We played the clip talking about Rupert Murdoch. An | :56:16. | :56:19. | |
example that deep-seated problems affect all governments, and things | :56:19. | :56:25. | |
don't change that much? Howard Flight to thing I saw Rupert | :56:25. | :56:29. | |
Murdoch coming slightly ahead of the curve. Within a few months of | :56:29. | :56:35. | |
Tony Blair being elected I pursued the matter with him. -- I would | :56:35. | :56:41. | |
like to think. There has been a trip through political history in | :56:41. | :56:46. | |
that sense. From an acting point of view, do you have to be interested | :56:46. | :56:52. | |
in politics on note the subject matter? Not from an acting point of | :56:52. | :56:58. | |
view, but I was already a fan. I was enthusiastic. It is not the | :56:58. | :57:05. | |
actor's job to be interested in the subject matter, it is the actor's | :57:05. | :57:09. | |
job betray it interestingly and truthfully. You do play different | :57:09. | :57:16. | |
roles. Without knowing the subject matter, having to come in so | :57:16. | :57:20. | |
quickly would be difficult, if you weren't familiar with what had gone | :57:20. | :57:26. | |
wrong? We have all developed an interest than most of us already | :57:26. | :57:32. | |
had, in the rehearsal. Are you surprised it was Chris Mullin's | :57:32. | :57:38. | |
diaries that made it to the stage? No, we do share a publisher, so I | :57:38. | :57:45. | |
might as well not be too flattering. I am fascinated about diaries. The | :57:45. | :57:50. | |
best diaries are often not from people who get to the top. The | :57:50. | :58:00. | |
:58:00. | :58:05. | ||
great thing is the self deprecating quality. It also makes it a very | :58:05. | :58:11. | |
truth. The diaries just rang true. And they rarely translate it on | :58:11. | :58:18. | |
stage. I don't think Alastair Campbell's diaries or make it. | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
does not always work and it does not always work when it is | :58:22. | :58:32. | |
:58:32. | :58:38. | ||
political. Just time be far we go Simon Jenkins, what happens. They | :58:38. | :58:45. | |
get fatter. I am still the same weight as I went in. Thanks to both | :58:45. | :58:50. | |
of you and thanks to my guests. Particularly Simon Jenkins. The | :58:50. | :58:55. |