03/07/2013 Daily Politics


03/07/2013

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Daily Politics. The NHS - free at the point of delivery, but not if

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you're a foreigner. It is not the international health service! The

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Government consults on charging non-EU nationals for going to the

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doctor. It's usually David Cameron and his

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MPs who are in a bit a bother over Europe, now Ed Miliband has his own

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euro-woes over whether to hold an in-out referendum.

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And the two men will take each other in PMQs - we'll bring you that live

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at midday. You have an idealistic view of the world. The problem is

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you sound like a 1980s alternative comedian. It is hilarious, in many

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years that many respects. Taking on the mantle of Ben Elton does not

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help anyone. You sound like a Tory politician.

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And the fall-out from yesterday's row between the Labour MP and the

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Labour blogger. That was great television yesterday! It really was!

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I was trying hard not to smile. All that coming up in less time than

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it takes to knock a top seed out of Wimbledon. And on centre court here

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in SW1 - and with us for the duration - Westminster's finest

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mixed doubles pairing. The Shadow Europe Minister Emma Reynolds and

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the health minister Dr Dan Poulter. Welcome to the programme. First, who

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should have the right to free treatment on the NHS? The Government

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is launching a consultation today on how to restrict foreigners' access

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to hospitals and doctors surgeries. JoCo has all the details.

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Yes, that's right. Under the proposals, non-EU nationals who come

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to the UK for more than six months could be charged at least �200 a

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year to access NHS treatment. More than 270,000 migrants came to study

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and work in Britain last year from outside the EU, who are likely to be

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affected by the levy. The Department of Health said the cost of treating

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foreigners is at least �30 million a year for the NHS in England alone.

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However, doctors have claimed the move would turn surgeries into

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border posts. And Dr Clare Gerada, the chairwoman of the Royal College

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of GPs, said �30 million was the equivalent of just two hours of the

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NHS's annual spending. So, why should doctors be border

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control agents? That is not the case, and it would not be the case

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that doctors would have to refuse treatment for patients, that would

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never happen in the NHS. But we want to introduce a system which make

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sure that the money that we put into the NHS as a government is bent on

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British patients, just as when we travel overseas we have to take out

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health insurance or make sure that we are provided for with health

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care, we believe it is right that people who come here as tourists or

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students should make provision for the cost of their own health care.

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How would a doctor know if somebody had paid the levy? We have people on

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long stays, people coming here as students. As a condition of the

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students reason we could put the levy down or make sure that some

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that he had health insurance. would not get in if they did not pay

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the levy or have health insurance? This is what the consultation is

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about. If you want to come here and study, and foreign students pay full

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tuition fees, so it will not be a deterrent, an extra couple of

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hundreds of pounds... You could throw in the health care if they are

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paying through the nose for their fees! If you went anywhere overseas,

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you would have to pay for health care. In the NHS, we need to make

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sure that many in this country goes on British patients. Don't we want

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more students to come here and pay full fees? Students are usually

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pretty healthy anyway, why not just throw in the cost of the health care

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and get even more coming and paying �12,000 a year, sometimes �15,000?

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It is not a barrier for students coming here. They are already paying

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many thousands of pounds. Making sure we have a levy which covers the

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NHS and make sure that local patients are not shortchanged has to

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be the right thing. How big a problem is health to resign? I think

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you'll estimate was on the conservative side. It could be �200

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million a year, which is a lot of money which should be going to

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support British patients. We know there is money... We have not been

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very good in some parts of the country at recouping money from EU

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migrants. Other countries are better at that. In terms of more general

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health tourism, at the minute we don't have any system for properly

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tracking who is accessing the NHS. People are given an NHS number and

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right to access when they turn up. We don't know the full cost, which

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is why it could be up to �200 million. Your boss, Jeremy Hunt,

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said the NHS is owed �12 million from foreigners. That is a figure

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that we know there is money from the EU migrants... There is meant to be

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a money transfer. Why don't you get that before you do anything else?

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are cracking down on that and making sure that we deal with it more

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effectively. We have inherited a system which did not do anything

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like this. In the last three years we have put measures in place, local

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hospitals are getting better at recouping the money than they were.

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There is a problem at some hospitals need to do more, that is why we are

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having a drive on the EU side as well. But the big focus needs to be

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on people from outside of the EU coming in, potentially costing up to

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�200 million a year. That is what we need to focus on, taking sure

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British patients are not shortchanged. If these people can't

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afford to see a doctor or decide they have been put off, they could

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be carrying diseases that we could all end up getting? The point is

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that this system operates in every other country that we may visit. The

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point is that people are coming into this country. If they need emergency

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treatment, that would always be provided. Doctors will always

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provide emergency treatment, but we need to make sure we recoup the

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cost. To recharge for emergency treatment? At the moment, in the

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system from the Labour Government, we do not charge of almost any

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treatment. If they end up in A&E, they will get that free at the point

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of use, but will they subsequently be charged? Initially there was a

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distinction the previous government brought in on what was emergency and

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what was non-emergency. That has become increasingly blurred. What

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would you do? It was blurred because it sums it presents with TB, which

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may be secondary to HIV, there would be other complications of illness

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that develop. The definition of emergency treatment has been widened

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and widened and widened further. There needs to be a more clear

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definition and consultation between immediate life-saving treatment and

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treatment which is more routine, day-to-day care and treatment. We

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have to look into this and make sure we get the money back. What is

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Labour's position? We will consider these proposals. We agree with the

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principle, migrants who come in and use the health service should not be

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able to use it for free. The NHS is a national health this, not an

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international health service. We certainly agree. But we need to get

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a little bit of perspective. The Health Secretary has tried to blame

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foreign migrant workers who come before that who come here for the

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A&E crisis. I thought he was blaming the doctors contract? A contract

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which came in in 2003 is responsible... The principle... ? It

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I think it is workable. If you are not a British citizen, you are not

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paying taxes as a student and so on, you leave again, you should pay for

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your health care? The NHS should be better and more effective at

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recouping the cost. You don't think it is an foe began stigmatising

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foreigners? I don't think so. I'd like to see more foreign students. I

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think it is a great shame that the immigration figures, that the Tory

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led government have been putting downward pressure on students coming

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here. The rest of the world want foreign students. But some of them

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are going to the dodgy foreign language schools, which you allowed

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to fester. When Diane Sabot -- Diane Abbott said, what price, xenophobia?

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She is your shadow public health spokesman. She is wrong? You just

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said you did not think it was xenophobic or stigmatising? I don't

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think the principle of recouping the cost is xenophobic... She does.I

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think she is referring to the fact that there have been some

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Conservative MPs who have tried to blame this issue for other crises.

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She was reacting immediately in the aftermath of Jeremy Hunt's interview

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this morning, outlining the policy that our other guests just has. I

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agree that you should recoup the cost. And she doesn't. The Shadow

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Public Health Minister, the first time she has been quoted since she

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left This Week, said, what price xenophobia? Stigmatising foreigners

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accessing NHS creates a public health risk. That would seem to be

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an attack on the policy. There is a public health risk which you have

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underlined, people could need treatment for TB and other diseases,

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and if untreated, they could infect other people. How long is the

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consultation period? It will go into the autumn. There should be

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something later in the year. Should we chalk one up for UKIP?

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On Friday the European Union Referendum Bill has its second

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reading in the House of Commons. The private member's bill, which is

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backed by the Conservative leadership, seeks to commit the

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Government to a referendum on Britain's memberbership of the EU in

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2017, after a renegotiation of powers. And it poses a condundrum

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for Labour leader Ed Miliband. Here's Jo with more.

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Everyone knows that David Cameron has problems with Euro rebels.

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Splits in the Tory Party over Europe are almost what we've come to

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expect. But there's also a growing question about what Labour should do

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about Europe. Ed Miliband could face problems of his own, with competing

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factions in his party backing different strategies. On Friday, MPs

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have their first chance to vote on the Conservative Referendum Bill.

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Labour complain the Bill is a Tory stunt, and whips have told

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backbenchers not to bother turning up unless they're prepared to make a

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supportive speech on Labour's position. But some in his party want

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Miliband to commit to his own referendum. One plan is to promise a

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vote within six months of the next election - well, before the Tories'

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2017 timetable. There's even a radical option of demanding a

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referendum before the election. It could be Labour - rather than the

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Conservatives, for a change - who look to be most split on Europe. One

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of the Labour MPs in favour of a referendum is John Cryer, and he

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joins us live from Central Lobby now. John, when would you like the

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in-out referendum? As soon as possible. You have to have this

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decision got out of the way. There have been an awful lot of changes to

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the European constitution and to our Constitution which have shifted

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powers to Brussels. Nobody has had a say since 1975, and it is about time

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they did. We should have a referendum as soon as possible.

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in the minority in your party? wanting a referendum as soon as

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possible, probably, but I think a growing number think it would be a

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good idea. Even the euro supporters think the divide between Parliament

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and the people is just unsustainable. The majority of them,

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including Tories, are reasonably happy with the EU, or staying inside

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the EU. Amongst voters, it is the other way round. You can't sustain

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that. On Friday, will you vote with the Conservatives in defiance of

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your whips? No. I will not turn up and vote, I will abstain. I think

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the bill is a con, it has clearly been hatched by the Tory leadership.

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It would give us a referendum on four or five years. In the meantime,

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the Prime Minister says he will renegotiate membership. We all know,

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including the Conservatives, that that will not happen. He will not

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get any substantive powers back. I don't know why he doesn't have a

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referendum as soon as possible. Ed Miliband change direction? How

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likely is it that Labour could call for a referendum ahead of the

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election? I suppose the bill could be amended to bring the date

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forward, which I think would be a good thing. Your original question

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was Will the Labour Party change its position? In my view, I think we

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will. I am one of those who has said all along, even before David Cameron

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made his original announcement, that we should be calling for a

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referendum, and we should be promising that we will have one

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after the next election, should we win power. Have you any support in

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the shadow cabinet? I don't know. I don't go around canvassing opinion.

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Maybe I should. I understand there are people in the shadow cabinet on

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the front bench who are supportive of my position of others. I put

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forward my arguments. I am not organising anything. I put them

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Do you think Labour will change its position before the election?

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have been clear and consistent on this issue, unlike the Tories who

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had a vote in 2011. I will come to him in a moment, tell me about your

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priorities. We said it is the wrong priority at the wrong time.

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Promising a referendum in four years' time creates economic

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uncertainty for four years, could affect foreign investment and

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therefore, jobs. Martin Sorrell, who is well known to be a Tory

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supporter... He voted with Mr Blair. He tends to be more on the

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conservative side. It's his is simple question. I am asking you is

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there any chance you would change your policy before the General

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Election? We have said we don't want a referendum now and we don't

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want one in four years' time. The Government should focus on the

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economy. If you look at polling, people care more about the economy

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than anything else. This Bill on Friday is a distraction. Can our

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viewers concluded you want a change of policy before the election?

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his two years to go before the election. I have set out our

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position as it is now. I am asking is there any chance you will change

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this before we go to the polls? will keep on the statute book, the

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referendum mock. Secondly, Europe is in a state of great flux. The

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argument is abating, but ongoing. We don't know what the dynamic will

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be between those in the eurozone and the UK. Croatia is outside.

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Let's see what happens with the dynamics of that relationship.

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are keeping your options open? Are you telling me then, as a result of

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the so-called dynamics between those within the eurozone and those

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out of the eurozone, between now and 2015, you might change of

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policy? I don't think it will change significantly. So you won't

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change a policy? I do not expect us to. It would be silly to rule out

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something. You are keeping your options open. We need to make these

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decisions on the national interest. What matters now, is when the

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eurozone integration happens, but the UK still has a say in what

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happens. This Bill is not worth the paper it is written on is it? After

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the next election the new Parliament will decide if we will

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have a referendum in 2017, not this Parliament. You cannot bind the

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next Parliament? If this as past as law, the next Parliament will have

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to vote down, which it can do. It will have to make a proactive

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exercise to do that. It would set into law that we will have a

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referendum in 2017. There would have to be further legislation

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before a referendum. You would have to legislate for the referendum?

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would have to go further, but it would require a new Parliament to

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directly the vote down the bill that had been passed. In other

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words it won't compel a Government to have a referendum in 2017, there

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would have to be another vote. It would make it difficult for David

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Cameron, if he were still to be Prime Minister ought for

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Conservative Government, Labour and the Lib Dems could say, we want

:19:53.:20:00.

another boat. It would be stated that the next Parliament would say

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they want to change what is done in this Parliament. According to the

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authorities, it would still require further legislation, if you past

:20:11.:20:15.

this. The next Parliament would have to pass for the legislation?

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The next Parliament would have to do more, but they would have to

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underwrite to say they wouldn't do what they wouldn't do what was

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passed in this Parliament. That implies that unless you have a vote

:20:30.:20:34.

to undo it, it would happen automatically. It won't happen

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automatically. The Commons authorities have stated, in order

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for it to happen and to go ahead, there will still have to be

:20:43.:20:49.

legislation? There will have to beat actions taken. They would have

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to be proactive or reacted to stop it on the basis of the fact we are

:20:55.:20:58.

initiating something in this Parliament. The Conservative Party

:20:58.:21:02.

wants to give the people a say on Europe. It is a clear issue in the

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country to have an open and frank discussion about Europe. I was born

:21:08.:21:12.

in 1978 and I did not have a vote on Europe. We should look at how

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Europe should be and in the meantime look at what powers we

:21:15.:21:21.

need to take back. Another issue for the Labour Party is the unions.

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His United trying to take over your party? No, the Labour Party grew

:21:27.:21:31.

out of the trade union party. I think the Prime Minister needs to

:21:31.:21:35.

be careful when he talks about trade union barons. There are lots

:21:36.:21:41.

of working people across the country who are members of a trade

:21:41.:21:46.

union survey get protection from unfair dismissal. Not many of them

:21:46.:21:50.

are members of the Labour Party, individually. The some of them are.

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Not many. The percentage of union members compared to the percentage

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of Labour members is very small. Why have 12 Labour constituencies

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been in special measures since 2005? This is a fatuous article in

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the Times, which frankly does not deserve to be on the front page.

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am not talking about the times. I am not linking anything. I am

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asking you why, because the Times article, which I am not depending

:22:23.:22:29.

on, because it fudged the timing, why have 12 neighbour

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constituencies been in special measures since 20 -- 2005. Some of

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those constituencies go back further than 2005. I know why you

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are asking this question. There has been a problem in Falkirk. Ed

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Miliband has been very decisive in putting a stop to what was

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happening, because there were serious allegations of wrongdoing.

:22:55.:23:00.

I am not asking about Falkirk. We know it is recently into special

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measures. Special measures mean the constituency party is taken over by

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the National Party and it is national officials who oversee it.

:23:10.:23:15.

I would like to know the answer why these constituencies you put into

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special measures into 2005 - knot Falkirk, why are they still in

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special measures? There were problems in these constituencies.

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You have had years to sort it out. The party has felt the need to

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monitor what has happened over time. If we were not doing that, you

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would be asking why we are not keeping a close eye on it. If you

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do not know, that is fine. Is it right that a union like United

:23:51.:23:55.

should be able to round up 100 people to join the Labour Party,

:23:56.:24:00.

send the names to the Labour Party with a cheque from the union to pay

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for their membership, is that right? I think it is wrong. It is a

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one-member, one-vote. We read introduce that in the 1990s. If you

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are a member of the Labour Party, you should make a personal

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commitment. It is a one-member, one-vote in the selections. So you

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are against it, that is clear. Now, travel to foreign places can

:24:28.:24:32.

often be uncomfortable. There's getting over the language barrier,

:24:32.:24:34.

acclimatising yourself to the weather and adapting to local

:24:34.:24:37.

customs, as the Prime Minister found when he inspected a guard of

:24:37.:24:40.

honour accompanied by a goose- stepping soldier on his trip to

:24:40.:24:44.

Kazakhstan this week. But a good host always tries to make his

:24:44.:24:47.

guests more comfortable, and what better way to make a Brit feel at

:24:47.:24:57.
:24:57.:25:01.

home than brewing him a nice cup of tea in a Daily Politics mug! There

:25:01.:25:06.

it is, we get every work. If you want to be as hospitable to your

:25:06.:25:09.

guests as the Kazakhstan President, now is your chance to get hold of

:25:09.:25:14.

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address: [email protected] And you can see the full terms and

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conditions for Guess The Year on our website:

:26:55.:27:05.
:27:05.:27:16.

First time I think we have done a year that I was not born.

:27:16.:27:20.

It's coming up to midday here. Just take a look at Big Ben. That can

:27:20.:27:23.

mean only one thing - Yes, Prime Minister's Questions is on its way.

:27:23.:27:33.

And that's not all, Nick Robinson is here. Do we have moving pictures

:27:33.:27:40.

for the year you were born! You are very brave!

:27:40.:27:49.

You treated this morning -- outwitted. The press charter is

:27:50.:27:54.

going to the Privy Council, but it is not the Government or the

:27:54.:28:00.

opposition's Press Charter, it is the press's pressed charter?

:28:00.:28:05.

Parliament agreed, or the party leaders agreed a common approach

:28:05.:28:10.

for a new Royal charter to establish an organisation like the

:28:10.:28:15.

BBC and other public bodies, to establish a new form of press

:28:15.:28:21.

regulation. We all had to wait for the Privy Council, the advisers to

:28:21.:28:25.

the Queen to sign things off, to actually make this happen. It was

:28:25.:28:30.

supposed to go in May, it did not go. Everybody assumed it would go

:28:30.:28:33.

to the next meeting of the Privy Council, and that his next

:28:33.:28:42.

Wednesday. The victims of press abuse, people like JK Rowling,

:28:42.:28:46.

Madeleine McCann's parents and others, said get on with it. But

:28:46.:28:51.

the charter that will go before the Privy Council next week won't be

:28:51.:28:55.

the one Parliament agreed, not the one the Prime Minister and the

:28:55.:28:59.

Leader of the Opposition and Nick Clegg once, it will be the press's

:28:59.:29:03.

rival proposal. It is not because it is about to become approved and

:29:03.:29:07.

accepted, it is because the lawyers are saying, if you don't go through

:29:07.:29:14.

the proper processes, there will be a massive court case in which the

:29:14.:29:18.

newspapers of it down for many months. Is it the newspapers or the

:29:18.:29:24.

Government that has put forward this charter? There are two rival

:29:24.:29:32.

charters. Who has put forward the press one? It is the press who is

:29:32.:29:39.

doing it? The people who used to run the old regulators. The

:29:39.:29:42.

expectation is the Privy Council won't sign off on this, but the

:29:42.:29:47.

view of the lawyer's, if you are a cynic you might think the

:29:47.:29:50.

Government are playing for time, but it is the advice they are

:29:50.:29:53.

getting. It is not enough for ministers to look at it and say,

:29:53.:30:00.

forget that. But in legal jargon, this is a credible proposal for a

:30:00.:30:03.

Royal charter so must go through every possible stage, even if it is

:30:03.:30:10.

rejected. To prevent the judicial review? The legal challenge would

:30:10.:30:16.

be that it is not a fairly and justly considered. Hacked off will

:30:16.:30:26.
:30:26.:30:28.

be very hacked off. We had hacked off, we will have really, really

:30:28.:30:33.

hacked off! More than ever before. They have a meeting with the

:30:33.:30:38.

Culture Secretary this afternoon. They are treading carefully because

:30:38.:30:43.

they regard the Culture Secretary as a target. We are now over to

:30:43.:30:53.
:30:53.:31:07.

the best way to celebrate the 65th birthday of the NHS is for the

:31:07.:31:14.

government to strip out the culture of secrecy, and for patient safety,

:31:14.:31:19.

have health professionals back at the heart of the NHS? The way to

:31:19.:31:23.

celebrate the 65th birthday of the NHS is to go on investing in it like

:31:23.:31:27.

this government is, with an extra �12 billion, but also to be on the

:31:27.:31:32.

side of patients. That is why we are introducing the Chief Inspector of

:31:32.:31:36.

hospitals. We need to end the culture of secrecy and cover-up that

:31:36.:31:46.
:31:46.:31:46.

we had under Labour. Mr Ed Miliband!

:31:46.:31:51.

I am sure I speak for everyone when I say there is deep concern over

:31:51.:31:55.

what we have witnessed in Egypt, including appalling violence and

:31:55.:32:00.

deaths just one year on from free elections. Might I ask the Prime

:32:00.:32:05.

Minister for assurances that all the appropriate steps are being taken to

:32:05.:32:10.

guarantee the safety of UK nationals in that safety? I can give him that

:32:10.:32:16.

assurance, and also to safeguard our embassy in Cairo. We are advising

:32:16.:32:19.

British National Party against all but essential travel to Egypt,

:32:19.:32:23.

except for the red Sea resorts, as set out on the foreign office

:32:23.:32:27.

website. These are deeply disturbing scenes. The level of violence is

:32:27.:32:32.

appalling. We should appeal to all sides to stop the levels of

:32:32.:32:36.

violence, and particularly the sexual assaults. It is not for this

:32:36.:32:41.

country to support any single group or party. We should support proper,

:32:41.:32:45.

democratic processes and proper government by consent. I agree with

:32:45.:32:50.

him, we all want to see a proper resolution to the present crisis.

:32:50.:32:54.

Can he tell the house what work is being done, even at this late stage,

:32:55.:33:00.

by the UK and the European Union, to encourage the Egyptian government to

:33:00.:33:04.

secure a negotiated political solution to this crisis in advance

:33:04.:33:11.

of today's Egyptian army deadline? Very clear messages have been sent

:33:11.:33:20.

to President Morsi, Obama, who has spoken to him directly. -- very

:33:20.:33:23.

clear messages have been sent to President Morsi, including by

:33:23.:33:32.

President Obama , who has spoken to him directly. The government needs

:33:32.:33:36.

to bring about peace and stability in that country.

:33:36.:33:40.

I am grateful for his answer, and I know that he and the Foreign

:33:40.:33:45.

Secretary will keep the house updated in the coming days. On

:33:45.:33:49.

another subject, the country will need 240,000 extra primary school

:33:49.:33:55.

places by 2014. Can he assure parents that this won't be met by

:33:55.:34:00.

increasing class sizes? I can assure him that we put in

:34:00.:34:04.

place, through the Spending Review, the additional money for 500 errors

:34:04.:34:09.

and extra school places, so we should be able to provide those

:34:09.:34:17.

school places without seeing an increase in classes. But class sizes

:34:18.:34:21.

are rising. When the Labour government came to office, the

:34:21.:34:25.

number of infants taught in class sizes over 30 was a quarter. When we

:34:25.:34:31.

left, it was just 1.8%. It has doubled on his watch. That is the

:34:31.:34:35.

reality for many parents. Under his plans, one third of new schools are

:34:35.:34:40.

being built in areas where there are surplus places. Can he explain to

:34:40.:34:42.

parents in areas where they are struggling to get children into

:34:42.:34:47.

primary schools, why he is building schools where there are already

:34:47.:34:54.

plenty of places? What he left is the biggest budget deficit in

:34:54.:34:58.

Britain's peacetime history. We have had to make difficult decisions,

:34:59.:35:05.

that is why we have cut welfare, but areas of spending. But an education,

:35:05.:35:09.

we have made it a priority, and that is why the money going into schools

:35:09.:35:16.

is going up and not down. That is why we are funding half a million

:35:16.:35:19.

extra school places and why this government has built 200 new school

:35:19.:35:26.

buildings. Now, he asks about new schools going in to different areas.

:35:26.:35:34.

What that is code for is Labour's opposition to free schools. We want

:35:34.:35:39.

more new good schools. Their policy is still the same as John

:35:39.:35:44.

Prescott's. Remember that? The trouble with good schools is that

:35:44.:35:49.

everyone wants to go to them. We want good schools but, as ever, his

:35:49.:35:56.

questions are written by Len McCluskey of Unite.

:35:56.:36:05.

Mr Speaker, as always, this Prime Minister has no answers to the

:36:05.:36:11.

questions he is asked. If he won't answer me, maybe he'll answer David

:36:11.:36:18.

Simons. He is the Conservative spokesman for the Local Government

:36:18.:36:23.

Association. This is what he says. We know of schools that are

:36:23.:36:28.

literally falling down and still have to compete with Rand new-builds

:36:28.:36:33.

down the road. In other words, in areas where there are surplus

:36:33.:36:37.

places. Isn't the truth that while he is pouring millions of pounds

:36:37.:36:41.

into building new schools where there are already places, the only

:36:41.:36:47.

way he will meet the shortage in other areas is teaching kids in

:36:47.:36:53.

Portakabins and increasing class sizes? The last Labour government

:36:53.:36:55.

cut primary school places. Let me tell him what his government is

:36:55.:37:02.

doing. The education capital budget is �21 billion over the next six

:37:02.:37:07.

years. That is what we are doing. What is so interesting is that he is

:37:07.:37:12.

taking his script from the trade unions, who don't like choice, they

:37:12.:37:16.

don't like new schools, they don't like free schools. They want to

:37:16.:37:21.

control everything. What we know is one organisation they have got

:37:21.:37:25.

control. We see it in black and white - they have taken control of

:37:25.:37:34.

the Labour. Mr Speaker, I am speaking for

:37:34.:37:44.
:37:44.:37:46.

parents up and down this country. The usual very low grade, very

:37:46.:37:48.

substandard, very unnecessary heckling. If the question that mad

:37:48.:37:54.

recession has two run longer, it will. Let's try to retain some

:37:54.:37:58.

decorum which the public can respect.

:37:58.:38:05.

And let's have a debate about ethics. He gave a tax cut to his

:38:05.:38:09.

Christmas card list, he brought Andy Coulson into the heart of Downing

:38:09.:38:16.

Street. The idea that he is lecturing us about ethics takes a

:38:16.:38:18.

double standards to a whole new level.

:38:18.:38:26.

Now, in this one policy on schools, we see the hallmark of this

:38:26.:38:31.

government. They make the wrong choices on tax and spending. The

:38:31.:38:36.

millionaires tax cuts, the top-down we organisation of the NHS and

:38:36.:38:41.

schools in areas with surplus places. All the time, they repeat

:38:41.:38:47.

the meaningless mantra, we all this together.

:38:47.:38:51.

He goes up and down the country speaking for Len McCluskey. No

:38:51.:38:55.

wonder the former Home Secretary calls them the party of the

:38:55.:39:01.

graveyard. The fact is, I have got it here, I have got the press

:39:01.:39:06.

release, how Unite plans to change the Labour Party. I know you are

:39:06.:39:11.

paid to shout by Unite, but calmed down a bit! This is what it says. We

:39:11.:39:16.

give millions to the party. The relationship has to change. We want

:39:16.:39:23.

a firm E class -based and left-wing general election campaign. He is too

:39:24.:39:27.

weak to sack his Health Secretary, to stand up for free schools, to

:39:27.:39:33.

stand up to the Unite union, too weak to run Labour and certainly too

:39:33.:39:43.
:39:43.:39:51.

New rules mean my constituents have to register individually if they

:39:51.:39:56.

want to vote to stop electoral fraud. Does he think the same rules

:39:56.:40:01.

should apply to joining a political party? I think she is absolutely

:40:01.:40:06.

right. Individual voter registration is a major step forward. Frankly, we

:40:06.:40:11.

have a situation where we have one of our political parties where it

:40:11.:40:14.

has become apparent that votes are being bought, people are being

:40:14.:40:20.

signed up without consent, all done by the man, let McCluskey, who gave

:40:20.:40:30.
:40:30.:40:34.

him his job. Demand for food banks is 30,000

:40:34.:40:37.

households -- was 30,000 households in media before the general

:40:37.:40:43.

election, 350,000 households last year. Will the Prime Minister

:40:43.:40:46.

acknowledged that rocketing demand for food bank shows we have a

:40:46.:40:52.

problem? I am sure as a member of Unite, he will want to look very

:40:52.:40:58.

carefully at his own constituency Labour Party. Who knows how many

:40:58.:41:03.

people they have bought and put on the register? Food bank use went up

:41:03.:41:08.

ten times under Labour. That is what happened. This government is helping

:41:08.:41:13.

working people by freezing the council tax, giving 24 million

:41:13.:41:17.

people a tax cut and taking 2.4 million of the poorest people out of

:41:17.:41:25.

tax. The Prime Minister will be aware of the recent terrible

:41:25.:41:29.

stabbings in my Shipley constituted which led to the death of an

:41:29.:41:35.

84-year-old woman and a serious injury to a nine-year old boy

:41:35.:41:38.

playing in the park. Will he join me in praising the police for the

:41:38.:41:43.

swiftness of making arrests in this particular case, but also in

:41:43.:41:46.

supporting the local community and congratulating them on their

:41:46.:41:50.

steadfastness and community spirit, which has helped this community get

:41:50.:41:57.

through a very, very traumatic period? I certainly join the

:41:57.:42:00.

honourable member. These were truly shocking events and reading about

:42:00.:42:04.

them, particularly the young boy who staggered out of the park bleeding,

:42:04.:42:08.

having been stabbed, and reading about the grandmother described as

:42:08.:42:12.

so much of a community member that they were seen as everybody's

:42:12.:42:17.

grandmother is truly disturbing. I join him in his praise, and we must

:42:17.:42:20.

make sure that justice is to. The government has promised that by

:42:20.:42:27.

2016, no one will have to pay more than �72,000 towards the cost of

:42:27.:42:33.

that personal care. I don't know whether he has read an article in

:42:33.:42:36.

the Financial Times on Saturday which says that the cap will not be

:42:36.:42:40.

an actual costs, but eligible costs. They will not include the

:42:40.:42:44.

cost of people meeting moderate care needs, nor all the costs incurred in

:42:44.:42:48.

going into a private residential home. Isn't this another example of

:42:48.:42:51.

him promising to do one thing and planning something completely

:42:51.:42:57.

different? We are introducing what was debated

:42:57.:43:00.

and discussed in this house in terms of those cost that will be covered,

:43:00.:43:06.

and those that will not. The party opposite had 13 years to cap the

:43:06.:43:10.

cost of care, to do something about the rising cost of social care, and

:43:10.:43:16.

did precisely nothing. May I congratulate the government on

:43:16.:43:20.

achieving political agreement for the next round of reform? That might

:43:20.:43:26.

I make a plea, that proper time be taken to agreed implementation, to

:43:26.:43:30.

ensure a level playing field and a fair deal for Britain and our

:43:30.:43:34.

farmers? The honourable lady is right. We

:43:34.:43:38.

have a good deal over the common agricultural policy. We need to

:43:38.:43:43.

listen to farmers about concerns so they are not disadvantaged as

:43:43.:43:47.

against other countries, and we need to take time to introduce the new

:43:47.:43:51.

system. When the last system, in terms of the single farm payments,

:43:51.:43:55.

was introduced so quickly, we suffered large fines from Europe as

:43:55.:44:01.

a result. She is extremely wise. Minister aware of the rather

:44:01.:44:06.

disturbing commitment, which was given yesterday by his Chancellor,

:44:06.:44:10.

that he will continue to interfere and intervene in the affairs of the

:44:10.:44:16.

Royal Bank of Scotland on behalf of the taxpayer? Is he aware that in

:44:16.:44:24.

his last intervention the completely irresponsible behaviour has cost the

:44:24.:44:29.

British taxpayer �4.5 billion in the loss of value of the shareholding.

:44:29.:44:33.

Pity instructors Chancellor to desist from any such intervention in

:44:33.:44:40.

the future? -- could he instructed his Chancellor to desist?

:44:40.:44:48.

I know he has experience of lending money!

:44:48.:44:52.

It is very important that the government stands up for the

:44:52.:44:55.

taxpayer and makes sure that the Royal Bank of Scotland has the right

:44:55.:45:00.

strategy and leadership going ahead so that they get the money put by

:45:00.:45:10.
:45:10.:45:13.

the last government into the banks Two days ago saw the start of

:45:13.:45:19.

independent retailer month. Does he agree we need to do more to keep

:45:19.:45:24.

independent shops vital question marks on this issue I agree with

:45:24.:45:30.

the honourable gentleman. He speaks for a lot of Britain, and that is a

:45:30.:45:35.

we should be looking at our town centres, looking after what we can

:45:35.:45:39.

do to back our town centres. We should be looking at the rate

:45:39.:45:43.

system and how it works. We should also be looking at a planning

:45:43.:45:48.

system and how we can use change of use and we should work with local

:45:48.:45:52.

authorities who want to see the town centres succeed. It is a vital

:45:52.:46:01.

issue for towns of and down our country and it has our full backing.

:46:01.:46:05.

I enjoyed my recent visit to the Nissan factory in Sunderland for

:46:05.:46:10.

the first of the mass market electric vehicle which will support

:46:10.:46:15.

over 500 jobs at the plant and 200 across the car industry. I look

:46:15.:46:20.

forward to visiting the North East again soon. When the Prime Minister

:46:20.:46:24.

next visit the region he will seek the key issue facing the region is

:46:24.:46:29.

unemployment. There are over 20 applicants for every advertised

:46:29.:46:33.

vacancy and his policy of local enterprise partnerships and

:46:33.:46:38.

enterprise zones is not making the same effective impact on the

:46:38.:46:44.

region's economy as the development agency did. Will he consider the

:46:44.:46:47.

appointment of a minister to work with the local enterprise

:46:47.:46:50.

partnerships and the individual members of Parliament for the

:46:50.:46:56.

region, to push forward the private sector employment agenda? Ministers

:46:56.:47:01.

do work with the enterprise zones. Let me give him the figures.

:47:01.:47:05.

Obviously we want to see more, but employment in the North East is up

:47:05.:47:10.

by 9,000 since the election. The North East private sector jobs are

:47:10.:47:15.

up 37,000. It is not just the success at Nissan, we have Hitachi

:47:15.:47:19.

committed to building the new train building plant in County Durham.

:47:19.:47:25.

That will bring 700 jobs. We have the new tunnel which opened in 2011,

:47:25.:47:30.

extra money going into the Tyne and Wear Metro. All of those things can

:47:30.:47:34.

make a difference. And in his own constituency, the youth claimant

:47:34.:47:41.

count has fallen by 4% over the last year. Will the Prime Minister

:47:41.:47:46.

take the opportunity on his next visit to promote apprenticeships

:47:46.:47:48.

and the support Government is giving to them among North East

:47:48.:47:53.

businesses, and will he pressed the Ministry of Transport to get on

:47:53.:47:59.

with the job of doing it? The last time I was in the north-east I made

:47:59.:48:03.

a speech about apprenticeships. It is remarkable the number of people

:48:03.:48:07.

who started apprenticeships under this Government. I can tell him in

:48:07.:48:12.

terms of the transport issue he raises, is actually we are funding

:48:12.:48:17.

feasibility studies into fixing problems on the road north of

:48:17.:48:23.

Newcastle to Scotland, and the Newcastle Gateshead bypass. We are

:48:23.:48:26.

improving the a 19 between Newcastle and South Shields. This

:48:26.:48:30.

is a much better record than the party opposite, even though they

:48:30.:48:34.

had a Prime Minister who came from the north-east. They never did what

:48:34.:48:40.

we are proposing. Given the Prime Minister is so keen to talk about

:48:40.:48:45.

infrastructure investments, can he explain why his Government has cut

:48:45.:48:51.

capital investment again in 2015, 16 by nearly �1 billion? I have to

:48:52.:48:56.

say to the honourable lady, she is wrong. If she looks at the figures

:48:56.:48:59.

and take the plan as a Labour had for this Parliament, we have added

:48:59.:49:04.

to those plans. We have increased the amount of capital spending. But

:49:04.:49:09.

if you come to this House and you oppose changes on welfare, you

:49:09.:49:13.

oppose cuts to Government programmes, you oppose the of this

:49:13.:49:16.

and she changes it you are making, they have not supported a single

:49:16.:49:21.

cut. It you do all of those things, there is no way you would have any

:49:21.:49:25.

capital spending at all. That is the problem with the weakness from

:49:25.:49:29.

the Labour front bench, because they have not taken any tough

:49:29.:49:32.

decisions they cannot support the capital spenders To this country

:49:32.:49:38.

needs. Can the Prime Minister confirm reports from Jordan a new

:49:38.:49:42.

treaty has been signed and this country could have the pleasure of

:49:42.:49:50.

seeing the back off Abu Qatada this week? I can confirm this treaty has

:49:50.:49:54.

taken through both the Jordanian Parliament and also our own. I

:49:54.:49:58.

don't want to say anything that in any way could stop what we all want

:49:58.:50:03.

to happen, happening. When the Government tried to go workers to

:50:03.:50:06.

exchange their rights for shares, we were told 6,000 businesses would

:50:06.:50:13.

sign up. In the event only six have shown an interest. Not 600 or 60,

:50:13.:50:19.

but six, what went wrong? programme has not started yet. It

:50:19.:50:23.

starts in September. It is a programme that has been praised by

:50:23.:50:28.

the Institute of Directors, praised by the CBI, praised by the

:50:28.:50:33.

Federation of Small Businesses. Of course it has not been praised by

:50:33.:50:36.

of the United unions. He is a member of the unite unions so he

:50:36.:50:43.

has to stick to their script. What a sad day for democracy. Question

:50:43.:50:53.
:50:53.:50:56.

Number Ten. I very much for, I look forward to visiting Bury and I

:50:56.:51:02.

always take special time to look at the statue of Sir Robert Peel.

:51:02.:51:09.

Whenever the Prime Minister does find time to sample the delights of

:51:09.:51:14.

a Bury, Ramsbottom and Tottington again, will he join me in meeting

:51:14.:51:19.

some of the hundreds of local small businesses and charities who will

:51:19.:51:26.

be �2,000 a year better off from next April, because of the new

:51:26.:51:30.

employment allowance which will cost employers and National

:51:30.:51:33.

Insurance contributions, giving them an incentive to create genuine

:51:33.:51:38.

new jobs? I think my honourable friend is absolutely right. You can

:51:38.:51:43.

walk down any high street in any town in Britain and point out to

:51:43.:51:47.

shopkeepers and businesses, if they do employ people they will see a

:51:48.:51:51.

�2,000 reduction in their National Insurance bill. If they don't

:51:51.:51:56.

employed people, they can take people on and not pay National

:51:56.:52:00.

Insurance. It is only possible because of the tough decisions this

:52:00.:52:05.

Government has taken on spending and welfare. It was never backed by

:52:05.:52:09.

the party opposite but it demonstrate we are on the side of

:52:09.:52:13.

people who want to get on. Prime Minister's deputy party

:52:13.:52:17.

leader in Scotland is describing the UK Government's scaremongering

:52:17.:52:21.

about independence as silly, whilst one of his key donors in Scotland

:52:21.:52:26.

is describing it as puerile, and a leading commentator says it is

:52:26.:52:33.

tripe. Given the Prime Minister is in charge of UK For -- fear for the

:52:33.:52:38.

UK Government, will he ditched this tripe? I was asked this question

:52:38.:52:44.

yesterday. I will give a different but similar answer, which is if you

:52:44.:52:47.

look at the information being produced by this Government on what

:52:47.:52:52.

would happen in terms of Scottish independence, I think it is

:52:52.:52:58.

impartial, extremely powerful and sensible. The fact is, the Scottish

:52:58.:53:02.

nationalists are using the argument. They are losing the arguments on

:53:02.:53:06.

jobs, losing the argument on the economy and losing the argument on

:53:06.:53:11.

the influence Scotland will have on the world. Bring on the arguments,

:53:11.:53:19.

because you are losing the battle. We have raised over �10,000 for

:53:19.:53:23.

local and a underprivileged children's. I'm sure the Prime

:53:23.:53:28.

Minister will join me in praising these local voluntary clubs in the

:53:28.:53:32.

community. It is in stark contrast to the kind of institution we tried

:53:32.:53:41.

to block via political influence... My honourable friend is right. It

:53:41.:53:45.

is an honour I am an honorary member of my local Rotary Club.

:53:45.:53:49.

They are unimportant part of the big society, they do an excellent

:53:49.:53:53.

job and they don't go round hoovering up members by making

:53:53.:54:01.

single payments from trade unions in order to buy influence. In March,

:54:01.:54:05.

the climate change minister said, I wouldn't be sleeping if we did not

:54:05.:54:09.

have 10,000 signed up to the green deal by the end of the year. Given

:54:09.:54:13.

that only four households have signed on the dotted line, is that

:54:13.:54:23.
:54:23.:54:24.

Len McClusky is false as well? -- fault. He is wrong about the

:54:24.:54:29.

figures for stomp of 37,000 households have had assessments and

:54:29.:54:37.

over 5,000 have had their boy has changed. Of course, I sorry I

:54:37.:54:40.

missed out the honourable member have received sponsorship from the

:54:40.:54:46.

unite Union. Oh you don't! I suspect he ought to go through his

:54:46.:54:50.

constituency Records, checked the members are still alive, that it

:54:50.:54:55.

might be a good start. The Prime Minister has won much praise for

:54:55.:54:59.

his work on dealing with tax avoidance, but some people have

:54:59.:55:04.

called him hypocritical, what does he say to that? What is

:55:04.:55:08.

hypocritical is to take donations from a donor in the form of shares

:55:08.:55:12.

in order to avoid taxes. That is what the Labour Party has done.

:55:12.:55:16.

They should pay back the �700,000 to the taxpayer and that money

:55:16.:55:23.

should be going towards schools and hospitals. That is Labour's shame.

:55:23.:55:26.

Can the Prime Minister confirmed the laces work programme figures

:55:26.:55:31.

show it is missing every single one of its minimum performance

:55:31.:55:36.

standards? The honourable lady is asking about the work programme.

:55:36.:55:43.

The fact is it has 312,000 people into work. 60% of the people going

:55:43.:55:47.

into the work programme are coming off benefits and while the unite

:55:47.:55:51.

Union and the members opposite might not want to hear this, and

:55:51.:55:56.

while it might not be part of Len McClusky's script, this programme

:55:56.:56:03.

is twice as good as the flexible New Deal. As a doctor who once had

:56:03.:56:10.

to listen incredulously to a patient at explain via a translator

:56:10.:56:14.

or that she only discovered she was nine months pregnant on arrival at

:56:14.:56:19.

Heathrow Airport, I was pleased to hear the statement on health

:56:19.:56:23.

tourism today. Does the Prime Minister agreed that although

:56:23.:56:28.

savings are modest, the principal matters. The health service should

:56:28.:56:31.

be national and not international? I think my honourable friend makes

:56:31.:56:36.

an important point. It is a National Health Service and not

:56:36.:56:40.

internationals. British families pay around �5,000 in year in taxes

:56:40.:56:45.

to pay for the NHS. It is bright but those who don't have a right to

:56:45.:56:48.

use the NHS gets properly charged for it. We have made this

:56:48.:56:55.

announcement and I hope there will be all-party support for it, but

:56:55.:57:02.

Labour's health minister has condemned it as xenophobic.

:57:02.:57:06.

bedroom tax is turning into a disaster in constituencies like

:57:06.:57:11.

mine. Families are moving out of good quality, social housing and

:57:11.:57:16.

into the private rented sector at a cost to the taxpayer. Three and

:57:16.:57:21.

four-bedroom houses are standing empty and classed as hard to let.

:57:21.:57:24.

We have pensioners approaching me saying they want to downside but

:57:24.:57:30.

they can't because priorities go to families. Is this not turning into

:57:30.:57:35.

a disaster for the taxpayer? What this is his first for the taxpayer.

:57:35.:57:38.

We don't give a spare room subsidy for people in private sector

:57:39.:57:43.

accommodation, so we shouldn't give a spare room subsidy for people in

:57:43.:57:48.

council accommodation. The question now is for the party opposite. We

:57:48.:57:54.

have decided to remove the spare room subsidy, they now say they

:57:54.:57:58.

support of spending changes. Is that still the case or are they

:57:58.:58:03.

committed to repealing this? Absolutely no answer. The shocking

:58:03.:58:07.

abuse that was revealed in Winterbourne view and by operation

:58:07.:58:11.

Jasmin in Wales has revealed a gap in the law which means that whilst

:58:11.:58:15.

the staff get prosecuted, the organisations are never corporate

:58:15.:58:19.

LEA accountable. Will a Prime Minister meet with me and a small

:58:19.:58:23.

delegation to discuss how we can plug this gap in the law and ensure

:58:24.:58:28.

there is proper accountability for abuse and neglect? I am happy to

:58:28.:58:32.

meet with him about this issue because it is important. In the

:58:32.:58:36.

Francis report there were a number of recommendations about duties of

:58:36.:58:39.

care and the duty of candour we need to put in place. I am keen to

:58:40.:58:45.

make sure we get this done. Royal charter approved by this

:58:45.:58:49.

House, still not been sent to the Privy Council when it should have

:58:49.:58:53.

been in May. Will he assured his house and the victims that he won't

:58:53.:58:58.

do a deal with certain newspapers to further watered down the

:58:58.:59:02.

recommendations? What I will save to the right honourable gentleman,

:59:02.:59:07.

we have to follow the correct legal processes. The legal advice we have

:59:07.:59:10.

shared with the Leader of the Opposition is we have to take these

:59:10.:59:14.

things in order. We have to take the press Royal charter proposal

:59:14.:59:18.

first, then we have to bring forward the Royal Charter of which

:59:18.:59:23.

we have all agreed. The press's Royal Charter has some serious

:59:23.:59:33.
:59:33.:59:33.

shortcomings, so I have not changed my view. Mr Speaker...

:59:33.:59:39.

gentleman wanted to be called, I have called him. I am most grateful,

:59:39.:59:49.
:59:49.:59:53.

Mr Speaker. Given a selection of Parliamentary candidates is a

:59:53.:59:59.

legitimate concern of this House, will have Prime Minister agree with

:59:59.:00:02.

me that the voting irregularities in the Falkirk constituency should

:00:02.:00:08.

be looked at as a matter of urgency? Order, order. The question

:00:08.:00:14.

is about apart the matter, not Government responsibility. Not a

:00:14.:00:20.

matter for the Prime Minister. A complete waste of time. Mr Peter

:00:20.:00:26.

Bone. Mr Speaker, the all-party group against human trafficking has

:00:26.:00:30.

raised the awareness of modern-day slavery to a greater level. I am

:00:30.:00:36.

delighted to report last night, 150 members of this House and the other

:00:36.:00:40.

house, attended the AGM. It is a credit to the Prime Minister's

:00:40.:00:45.

personal commitment to this. Would he consider, and perhaps in the

:00:45.:00:51.

next Queen's Speech having a modern slavery Act? I pay tribute to the

:00:51.:00:54.

honourable member for the consistent work he has done on this

:00:54.:00:59.

vital issues. It is important we wipe out a modern-day slavery and I

:00:59.:01:02.

enjoyed going to meet with him and other members, in the House of

:01:02.:01:07.

Commons, in order to see just how bad the situation is. We are

:01:08.:01:10.

looking at legislative options and I will be chairing a committee

:01:10.:01:16.

across Government to look at what more could be done. Glenda Jackson.

:01:16.:01:20.

One of my constituents and her three-year-old child have become

:01:20.:01:26.

homeless fleeing the most heinous domestic violence. And now, despite

:01:26.:01:30.

a legally living and working in this country for four years,

:01:30.:01:35.

immigration technicality has made them destitute. Will the Prime

:01:35.:01:38.

Minister please examine this legislation and its possibly

:01:38.:01:42.

unintended consequences, so in future no woman and her child may

:01:42.:01:48.

suffer a double abuse? I am happy to look at the individual case the

:01:48.:01:51.

honourable lady raises. It is linked to the last question about

:01:51.:01:57.

modern-day slavery, were sometimes immigration rules have caused

:01:57.:02:01.

slavery -- difficulty for those who want to flee the people keeping

:02:01.:02:11.
:02:11.:02:11.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 81 seconds

:02:11.:03:03.

Inspectors were told not to serve his problems because it was

:03:03.:03:09.

embarrassing for the Government. Was it his conception when he set

:03:09.:03:19.
:03:19.:03:54.

Labour members took over. A pretty lively Prime Minister's

:03:54.:04:04.
:04:04.:04:05.

Questions come to an end. Ed Miliband asked about Egypt, it did

:04:05.:04:11.

not get us very far, but at least he did it. He then moved on to schools,

:04:11.:04:16.

drawing a contrast between the areas of the country short of primary

:04:16.:04:21.

school places than those which had 20 but were still adding the

:04:21.:04:26.

government support for free schools to these areas. -- those which had

:04:26.:04:29.

plenty. There were about eight mentions of Len McCluskey from the

:04:30.:04:34.

Prime Minister. That was interesting, he is not an MP, he is

:04:34.:04:39.

leader of the Unite union. But Mr Cameron has been reading his focus

:04:39.:04:44.

groups and he thinks this plays rather well. He managed to shoo

:04:44.:04:49.

homeland McCluskey into virtually every answer. The Speaker got upset

:04:49.:04:53.

because many of the questions were not about government policy or the

:04:53.:04:57.

Prime Minister. -- he managed to shoehorn Len McCluskey into

:04:57.:05:02.

virtually every answer. Michael Murray, an e-mail, said,

:05:02.:05:06.

will Mr Cameron ever give direct answers to direct questions? If he

:05:07.:05:12.

does not know the answers, why is he Prime Minister? Jeffrey says that Ed

:05:12.:05:16.

Miliband has showed why he cannot be trusted - opposing choice, freedom

:05:16.:05:22.

and free schools. One viewer said, surely it is time the Prime Minister

:05:22.:05:26.

thought about his constant vilifying of the trade unions. It is not

:05:26.:05:31.

right. Ian Whiteley says that he started of statesmanlike over Egypt,

:05:31.:05:37.

then it descended into a slanging match. Dave got in plenty of digs

:05:37.:05:41.

overland McCluskey and Unite but Ed skewered him up -- about bringing in

:05:41.:05:47.

Andy Coulston. Mr Winston says, the Prime Minister certainly hammered Ed

:05:47.:05:50.

Miliband and it is clear there is growing confidence on the Tory

:05:50.:05:56.

backbenchers, but Martin said that the preplanned mantra about Labour

:05:56.:06:01.

being controlled by the unions is hypocritical, taking early when you

:06:01.:06:04.

consider David Cameron taking the side of the press barons during the

:06:04.:06:09.

Leveson Inquiry and the influence of big business. Crispin in

:06:09.:06:13.

Chesterfield says that David Cameron keeps banging on about the unions,

:06:13.:06:16.

but who is pulling his strings when it comes to delaying new press

:06:16.:06:22.

regulation? He came out saying he did not like

:06:22.:06:25.

the press charter, which was interesting. Am I right in thinking

:06:25.:06:30.

that those around Mr Cameron in the Government at the moment and his

:06:30.:06:35.

political strategists think that Labour are on the defensive? They

:06:35.:06:39.

are on a roll. There is something striking happening, which you can

:06:40.:06:43.

see in Prime Minister's Question Time. Week after week, the Tory

:06:43.:06:47.

awkward squad, will to want to get rid of David Cameron, they were

:06:47.:06:53.

awkward in public, they would attack on it like or him. Now, two or three

:06:53.:06:57.

of him lobbed him a soft ball so that he could attack Labour and the

:06:57.:07:03.

trade unions. There are two separate things going on. Tory strategists

:07:03.:07:10.

believe that on the issue of the Unite union's influence, they can

:07:10.:07:14.

portray Ed Miliband as weak. The speaker would have pulled up at some

:07:14.:07:21.

months ago. He would have said, you are not supposed to ask questions in

:07:21.:07:24.

opposition, you are not supposed to this for partisan propaganda. Yet

:07:24.:07:28.

the Speaker let him get away with it. The second thing going on is a

:07:28.:07:31.

sense that the Tory family is briefly, at least, coming together.

:07:31.:07:38.

That is partly due to the Europe bill coming up later this week. On

:07:38.:07:41.

Friday, they can vote on the referendum. One thing I can tell

:07:41.:07:46.

you, which I don't think has been out there yet, is the Prime Minister

:07:46.:07:50.

is inviting you. Have you had your invite? He will have a barbecue for

:07:50.:07:55.

every current dividend MP inside Downing Street. There will be a

:07:55.:07:59.

family photo for every Conservative MP on the green bench of Downing

:07:59.:08:02.

Street. And a special meeting with the Prime Minister and strategists.

:08:02.:08:07.

In other words, they are using this bill to get everybody to Westminster

:08:07.:08:14.

and pull together, have a festival, a Tory party party! There will be a

:08:14.:08:21.

photograph on the green benches. Sounds like party management to me.

:08:21.:08:25.

So what? You might say. Forgive me if I have said this before, people

:08:25.:08:31.

forget that politics is a tribal sport, a team game. Whether morale

:08:31.:08:35.

is good or bad does not secure you an election, but, rightly or

:08:35.:08:43.

wrongly, Tory morale is high. that? If the recovery is under way,

:08:43.:08:49.

it is barely perceptible among most voters. The coalition has not been

:08:49.:08:55.

the happiest of parties in recent months or years. Why is Labour

:08:55.:09:00.

feeling on the defensive and the Tories have a spring in their step?

:09:00.:09:06.

I don't feel we are on the defensive. I think the tale about

:09:06.:09:10.

the barbecue on Friday night tells us what is really behind Friday 's

:09:10.:09:13.

European debate, and that is the Prime Minister trying to manage his

:09:13.:09:19.

own party. All prime ministers do that. Two it is an occasion for him

:09:19.:09:23.

to say that the Lib Dems are against this and we are for it, it is an

:09:23.:09:28.

occasion for him to try to unite his party around that one issue. On the

:09:28.:09:32.

substance of whether we should be in or out of Europe, there are deep

:09:32.:09:37.

divisions within the Tory party. I think it is a convenient device for

:09:37.:09:41.

him on Friday to try to unite his party. How long it will last, I

:09:41.:09:50.

don't know. We have been consistently ahead in the polls

:09:50.:09:56.

since the disastrous Budget of last year. White bag not by much. Now we

:09:56.:10:01.

have fixed term Parliaments, which I am in favour of, because I think it

:10:01.:10:04.

was a farce when there was always a question of, will the Prime Minister

:10:04.:10:09.

call an election or not? We have started the process of setting out

:10:09.:10:15.

our alternative, but we are doing it in a thoughtful and considered way.

:10:15.:10:20.

I think we are on the front foot. At the start of June, we had a very

:10:20.:10:26.

strong start to the Parliamentary session with speeches by Ed Balls

:10:26.:10:31.

and Ed Miliband. The latest polls have shown that your leaders down to

:10:31.:10:37.

5%. At this stage in the run-up to the 1997 election, you were points

:10:37.:10:45.

ahead. It was a very different time. Yes, Labour was well ahead!

:10:45.:10:49.

there was also an unpopular Conservative Government of many

:10:49.:10:53.

years. The Conservatives did not get the majority at the last election,

:10:53.:11:03.
:11:03.:11:03.

obviously we. Did not win either, so we are at a much closer pegging.

:11:03.:11:06.

Aren't they overplaying Len McCluskey? He mentioned him eight

:11:06.:11:12.

times, he drags him in. If you asked him about the weather, he would

:11:12.:11:16.

probably blame it, and also the bedroom tax, an Unite. Despite all

:11:16.:11:24.

the bankrolling of Labour, Len McCluskey and his union have been

:11:24.:11:27.

remarkably unsuccessful in getting their candidates chosen. That is the

:11:27.:11:35.

real story in the Labour Party. not sure that is true. I was elected

:11:35.:11:39.

by an open primary, and I find it deeply distasteful, and other unions

:11:39.:11:49.
:11:49.:11:50.

find this as well, that unions can be selecting Labour MPs. How many

:11:50.:11:54.

prospective candidates has Unite forced onto a Labour constituency?

:11:54.:12:01.

Two there was an example in Falkirk. But they did not win. And in

:12:01.:12:06.

Brighton a candidate strongly backed by the unions was selected.

:12:06.:12:11.

issue is how many are they on a roll? How many have Unite forced

:12:11.:12:17.

onto a Labour constituency? There is a clear trend that those candidate

:12:17.:12:23.

strongly backed by the unions tended to win, sometimes regardless of what

:12:23.:12:26.

is independent commentators thought of their performance. There is not

:12:26.:12:31.

evidence for that. I have been through an open Labour Party

:12:31.:12:39.

selection, I was the only woman on a shortlist of eight. There was a

:12:39.:12:43.

heavily union backed candidate and I beat them. Obviously there are trade

:12:43.:12:47.

union members in my own membership who sometimes favour the trade union

:12:47.:12:52.

backed candidate, and sometimes do not. But there are some people in Ed

:12:52.:12:55.

Miliband's own frontbench who are publicly expressing their run

:12:55.:13:01.

happiness. Jim Murphy said they, meaning Unite, can't bully and get

:13:01.:13:06.

their way within the Labour Party. There is a row taking place in

:13:06.:13:10.

private that has basically emerged in public. If you are political

:13:10.:13:14.

party, that is a gift when your opponents do that, when they row

:13:14.:13:20.

with each other. In my role as health minister I engage with the

:13:20.:13:24.

unions, and there is clearly disquiet from the unions about the

:13:24.:13:31.

strength and power of Unite in the Labour Party. What are the unions?

:13:31.:13:37.

When you see that, for example, Unison, which is more moderate, I

:13:37.:13:44.

believe, than Unite, have much less they say. The Labour Party as a

:13:44.:13:50.

party has traditionally had brought union backing. But now one union is

:13:50.:13:55.

beginning to buy votes in the process. Unison have complained

:13:55.:14:00.

about Unite being too powerful? I would not say they have direct

:14:00.:14:03.

complained, but you can pick up background disquiet from union

:14:03.:14:13.
:14:13.:14:17.

members. Tom Watson, a key figure in your party, a big union man. Has he

:14:17.:14:20.

got too much power when it comes to choosing candidates? Tom Watson is

:14:20.:14:25.

in the position he is in because he is a tremendous campaign in his own

:14:25.:14:30.

constituency. We are both in the Black Country. Has he too much

:14:30.:14:37.

power? In the 1990s, we introduced one member, one vote. We will do all

:14:37.:14:41.

we can to make sure that this is fair and transparent. I am

:14:41.:14:47.

determined, as a Labour MP, that the people up for election in 2015 have

:14:47.:14:51.

had the backing of their local party. It is really important that

:14:52.:14:55.

that happens. Ed Miliband has been very decisive when it came to

:14:55.:14:59.

Falkirk. The party stepped in and stop the process, froze the

:15:00.:15:04.

membership so that only members who joined from March of last year were

:15:04.:15:09.

eligible, and so we're getting a grip on the problems in Falkirk.

:15:09.:15:16.

Nick, a final word? We did not speak about primary school places, earlier

:15:16.:15:22.

this week, an all-party Commons committee said that over 250,000

:15:22.:15:26.

school places were needed by September 2014, and there was a

:15:26.:15:29.

danger that music rooms and libraries would be replaced by unit

:15:29.:15:34.

of the classrooms. Although it did not feel like it was Ed Miliband's

:15:34.:15:37.

day, I think the Labour leader has invested in a story he thinks would

:15:37.:15:41.

fit in with people 's life experiences in the next few months

:15:41.:15:45.

and weeks to say, when your child is in an overcrowded classroom or does

:15:46.:15:52.

not have a classroom, here is why. And all the places are to be

:15:52.:15:59.

available for September, when the school goes back. Thank you.

:15:59.:16:02.

Now, we could, if we wanted to, head to the supermarket at three o'clock

:16:03.:16:06.

on a Sunday afternoon. But could we get an appointment to see our GP

:16:07.:16:09.

then, or have a routine NHS operation on our knee? Probably not.

:16:09.:16:12.

But all this could be about to change under plans by Health

:16:13.:16:16.

Secretary Jeremy Hunt to make care in NHS England truly 24/7. In fact,

:16:16.:16:18.

data shows that mortality rates actually increase during

:16:18.:16:21.

out-of-hours provision. But doctors say the proposals won't work in a

:16:21.:16:25.

service already overstretched. Former doctor and author of NHS SOS

:16:25.:16:35.
:16:35.:16:56.

I was a hospital doctor of the 37 years. I advise the Government on

:16:56.:17:00.

the care of elderly people. Nothing would appease me more than being

:17:00.:17:10.
:17:10.:17:10.

able to offer comprehensive care in the NHS, 247. Surgeries will be

:17:10.:17:14.

open seven days a week so patients could see their doctors without

:17:14.:17:19.

missing work. In NHS hospitals, the care on a Sunday night would be

:17:19.:17:23.

just as good as the care on a Wednesday morning. It wouldn't only

:17:23.:17:28.

be patient centred, but staff centred. It would make it easy to

:17:28.:17:32.

deliver promptly and safely, everything we want for our patients.

:17:32.:17:37.

But it would be irresponsible to support Jeremy Hunt's call for a

:17:37.:17:47.
:17:47.:17:53.

247 Tesco style service at present. Why? The NHS is facing �20 billion

:17:53.:17:58.

worth of cuts, massive staff reductions, closure of A&E and

:17:58.:18:05.

closure of some hospitals. All of this in the context of the most

:18:05.:18:09.

disruptive reorganisation in its history. No wonder services are

:18:09.:18:14.

overstretched. Worse still, resources will become more scarce

:18:14.:18:19.

as Government plans for re privatisation unfolds. There will

:18:19.:18:29.

be tendering process has overseen by lawyers, and money diverted into

:18:29.:18:33.

profits for multi- millionaire entrepreneurs. Any extension of

:18:33.:18:38.

services, some think the vast majority of doctors support, will

:18:38.:18:43.

mean endangering what is currently on offer. In other words, upgrading

:18:43.:18:47.

services at the weekend may mean downgrading services during the

:18:47.:18:57.
:18:57.:19:01.

week. Doctoring is a more serious And Professor Raymond Tallis joins

:19:01.:19:07.

us now. I think everybody would agree that doctoring is more

:19:07.:19:12.

complicated than shopping. But also there is a perception that doctors

:19:12.:19:18.

don't want to work out of hours and the weekends? I began a 104 hour

:19:18.:19:24.

week when I started as a junior doctor. When I finished I was

:19:24.:19:29.

working 70 hours a week when I finished. It was normal when I

:19:29.:19:35.

retired to become a consultant on call. That there was no question of

:19:35.:19:40.

not doing out of hours care. Nevermind one continuing

:19:41.:19:44.

preoccupation of patience when you are not being paid for it. His it

:19:44.:19:49.

to demand would looking at? You put it down to the fact there were no

:19:49.:19:53.

resources. Let's say the resources were there, would it be reasonable

:19:53.:20:00.

for people to expect a 24 hour a day service in terms of GPs and

:20:00.:20:04.

hospital? It's would be wonderful. When I was a doctor in hospital, it

:20:04.:20:08.

was dreadful on Sunday when you were trying to solve a complex

:20:08.:20:12.

problem because you did not have a support service. When you were

:20:13.:20:18.

trying to communicate with primary care there wasn't the support at

:20:18.:20:22.

the weekend. As I have indicated, it would be fantastically staff

:20:22.:20:26.

centres. We would be far less concerned, but it requires an

:20:26.:20:31.

enormous amount of resources at a time when resources are being

:20:31.:20:36.

squandered a by the Coalition. more money was put into the NHS or

:20:36.:20:39.

the resources were spent more wisely you could have a more even

:20:39.:20:45.

service spread across seven days? �12.7 billion will be put into the

:20:45.:20:50.

NHS during this Parliament. But if you look at the root causes, the

:20:50.:20:59.

majority of the NHS workforce are on a 24 hour basis. There is the

:20:59.:21:02.

basis of expanding GP hours and consultant hours. Because the

:21:02.:21:12.

previous contract could GP now earns �108,000. There is a 24%

:21:12.:21:15.

increase in pay given to consultants by the previous

:21:15.:21:19.

Government. Would you like to change that? They were still

:21:19.:21:24.

allowed to opt out of weekends and evenings. Part of this is what

:21:24.:21:32.

contract you put in place. Doctors are well remunerated... And they

:21:32.:21:37.

should work out-of-hours and weekends? Doctors shouldn't just do

:21:37.:21:42.

on-call work at that time, but more routine work. At night and the

:21:42.:21:47.

weekends, the mortality rate is higher. When you are earning

:21:47.:21:52.

�108,000 on average, and you are starting a salary as a consultant

:21:52.:21:58.

on 84,000... What are you blaming the fact you're 82% more likely to

:21:58.:22:03.

die in the NHS when you have an operation on a Sunday compared to a

:22:03.:22:06.

Monday? Are you saying there are enough resources, but doctors are

:22:06.:22:11.

not good enough at the weekend? am not saying that. But some were

:22:11.:22:16.

there is a problem. The contracts knitters he did by the previous

:22:16.:22:21.

Government allowed doctors to opt out of weekend care. So consultant

:22:21.:22:26.

care, is safer Kerr and better. That is something we need to see

:22:26.:22:30.

more of. Not just during the week, but in the evenings and weekends.

:22:31.:22:37.

Good patient care, professionals acting with professionalism. What

:22:37.:22:42.

do say to that? First of all he is confusing the situation with

:22:42.:22:46.

primary care and the situations with hospitals. All hospital

:22:46.:22:53.

consultants provide cover over weekends on a shift basis. It is

:22:53.:22:57.

not actually being at a hospital delivering care, it is being

:22:57.:23:02.

provided by on-call cover which is different to providing routine,

:23:02.:23:08.

daytime care. The other thing is, there is only a certain number of

:23:08.:23:13.

hours an individual doctor can work. It is inappropriate for a doctor to

:23:13.:23:19.

work a 100 our week, as I did. We need more doctors. You cannot

:23:19.:23:26.

spread one doctor over 168 hours in a week. We are can -- recruiting

:23:26.:23:32.

more consultants. The previous Government recognised that

:23:32.:23:36.

consultant care is better. We need to have more consultants working at

:23:36.:23:41.

weekends and out of hours. It is also the case we need a GPS system

:23:41.:23:45.

that is not necessarily looking at daytime care, but providing care in

:23:45.:23:50.

the evenings and weekends to keep patients more out of the A&E when

:23:50.:23:55.

they don't need to be there. are the Government, make it happen.

:23:55.:23:59.

We need to revisit the contracts we inherited from the previous

:23:59.:24:06.

Government. Some of these contracts come round in a ten-year sample.

:24:06.:24:12.

Hackney, idealistic GPs wanted to clawback the opt-out from providing

:24:12.:24:17.

out-of-hours services. The existing private provider was awful. The

:24:17.:24:20.

public and the doctors agreed with that. They tried to buy it out and

:24:20.:24:24.

they were prevented from doing so. By the rules laid down by the

:24:24.:24:28.

previous Government. Now yesterday we had a bit of a

:24:28.:24:32.

spat on our programme - which we always enjoy. The Labour MP, Simon

:24:32.:24:34.

Danczuk, locked horns with The Independent's Owen Jones over the

:24:34.:24:37.

question of Jobs Seekers Allowance and whether there should be a

:24:37.:24:40.

seven-day waiting period. Owen Jones attacked the proposal and

:24:40.:24:49.

well a bit of old-fashioned class warfare ensued. Take a look at this.

:24:49.:24:54.

You cannot just bring everybody together. You have an idealistic

:24:54.:25:00.

view of the world. You sound like a 1980s alternative comedian. It is

:25:00.:25:04.

hilarious in many respects, but taking on the mantle of Ben Elton

:25:04.:25:10.

does not help anybody in politics. You sound like a Tory politician.

:25:10.:25:16.

The grotesque sight of the Labour MP scuttling around TV studios to

:25:16.:25:24.

back Tory attacks on some of the poorest of society. The priority

:25:24.:25:30.

has to be creating jobs, creating wealth.

:25:30.:25:33.

Well that ding-dong caused a Twitter storm and led the Daily

:25:33.:25:36.

Telegraph blogger, Dan Hodges, to write that the Labour Party needs

:25:36.:25:39.

more of this left-wing rebuttal and he accused the Labour leadership of

:25:39.:25:49.
:25:49.:25:49.

being in thrall to Owen Jones. Dan Hodges joins us now. And are we

:25:49.:25:54.

saying, the word has got out from Ed Miliband's headquarters that

:25:54.:26:00.

Owen-Jones is not to be touched? Owen-Jones is a made man within the

:26:00.:26:08.

Labour Party. A Mafia expression? It is a Mafia expression. It has

:26:08.:26:13.

been leave Owen alone. It is an open secret that Ed Miliband and

:26:13.:26:19.

his party have been courting going for several months. Why is that?He

:26:19.:26:24.

is influential and has his newspaper column, he is influential

:26:24.:26:29.

in terms of his liaison with the unions, think tank he is

:26:29.:26:36.

established with. And also the direct action movement that Labour

:26:36.:26:42.

wants to make common cause with. The other element is, the 35%

:26:42.:26:46.

strategy, Ed Miliband is trying to build a new Coalition around those

:26:46.:26:51.

who are disaffected with the Labour Party around the Iraq war, and

:26:51.:26:55.

young and first-time voters. There is a sense Irwin is a spokesperson

:26:55.:27:02.

for that group. Owen-Jones replied to your comments, saying it is the

:27:02.:27:07.

most riveting and personal fantasy he has ever read. I don't want to

:27:07.:27:13.

go into his personal fantasies, certainly not before the watershed!

:27:13.:27:18.

Would you like to disprove Dan Hodges theory by attacking a Wynne-

:27:18.:27:24.

Jones on air? This is total rubbish. Ed Miliband has not put out an

:27:24.:27:28.

instruction to shadow ministers not to have a go at him. I would be

:27:28.:27:33.

happy to criticise Owen if the occasion arises. And Simon is a

:27:33.:27:37.

Labour Member of Parliament, he speaks for the Labour Party. Not

:27:37.:27:47.
:27:47.:27:48.

Owen. So Simon was right, and I was was wrong? -- Owen. Yes.It is

:27:48.:27:55.

falling apart. The word is out now, attack it Owen. They will all be

:27:55.:28:05.
:28:05.:28:09.

Time to put you out of your misery with the answer to the Guess the

:28:09.:28:19.
:28:19.:28:20.

Year competition. The answer was 1942. Why should they have found

:28:20.:28:26.

out it was 1942? The Al Alan Main, the huge battle

:28:26.:28:30.

on the North African desert, the turning-point of the war. The first

:28:30.:28:35.

British victory, actually. Emma, please press the button to reveal

:28:35.:28:45.
:28:45.:28:47.

There is one Cup on eBay at the moment selling for �93, but it is

:28:47.:28:51.

the cancer. OK that's all for today. Thanks to

:28:51.:28:54.

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