03/07/2013 Daily Politics


03/07/2013

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn are joined by health minister Dr Dan Poulter and shadow Europe minister Emma Reynolds for Prime Minister's Questions.


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Daily Politics. The NHS - free at the point of delivery, but not if

:00:39.:00:47.

you're a foreigner. It is not the international health service! The

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Government consults on charging non-EU nationals for going to the

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doctor. It's usually David Cameron and his

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MPs who are in a bit a bother over Europe, now Ed Miliband has his own

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euro-woes over whether to hold an in-out referendum.

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And the two men will take each other in PMQs - we'll bring you that live

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at midday. You have an idealistic view of the world. The problem is

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you sound like a 1980s alternative comedian. It is hilarious, in many

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years that many respects. Taking on the mantle of Ben Elton does not

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help anyone. You sound like a Tory politician.

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And the fall-out from yesterday's row between the Labour MP and the

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Labour blogger. That was great television yesterday! It really was!

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I was trying hard not to smile. All that coming up in less time than

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it takes to knock a top seed out of Wimbledon. And on centre court here

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in SW1 - and with us for the duration - Westminster's finest

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mixed doubles pairing. The Shadow Europe Minister Emma Reynolds and

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the health minister Dr Dan Poulter. Welcome to the programme. First, who

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should have the right to free treatment on the NHS? The Government

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is launching a consultation today on how to restrict foreigners' access

:02:04.:02:09.

to hospitals and doctors surgeries. JoCo has all the details.

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Yes, that's right. Under the proposals, non-EU nationals who come

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to the UK for more than six months could be charged at least �200 a

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year to access NHS treatment. More than 270,000 migrants came to study

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and work in Britain last year from outside the EU, who are likely to be

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affected by the levy. The Department of Health said the cost of treating

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foreigners is at least �30 million a year for the NHS in England alone.

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However, doctors have claimed the move would turn surgeries into

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border posts. And Dr Clare Gerada, the chairwoman of the Royal College

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of GPs, said �30 million was the equivalent of just two hours of the

:02:49.:02:59.
:02:59.:03:04.

NHS's annual spending. So, why should doctors be border

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control agents? That is not the case, and it would not be the case

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that doctors would have to refuse treatment for patients, that would

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never happen in the NHS. But we want to introduce a system which make

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sure that the money that we put into the NHS as a government is bent on

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British patients, just as when we travel overseas we have to take out

:03:26.:03:36.
:03:36.:03:41.

health insurance or make sure that we are provided for with health

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care, we believe it is right that people who come here as tourists or

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students should make provision for the cost of their own health care.

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How would a doctor know if somebody had paid the levy? We have people on

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long stays, people coming here as students. As a condition of the

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students reason we could put the levy down or make sure that some

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that he had health insurance. would not get in if they did not pay

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the levy or have health insurance? This is what the consultation is

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about. If you want to come here and study, and foreign students pay full

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tuition fees, so it will not be a deterrent, an extra couple of

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hundreds of pounds... You could throw in the health care if they are

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paying through the nose for their fees! If you went anywhere overseas,

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you would have to pay for health care. In the NHS, we need to make

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sure that many in this country goes on British patients. Don't we want

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more students to come here and pay full fees? Students are usually

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pretty healthy anyway, why not just throw in the cost of the health care

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and get even more coming and paying �12,000 a year, sometimes �15,000?

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It is not a barrier for students coming here. They are already paying

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many thousands of pounds. Making sure we have a levy which covers the

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NHS and make sure that local patients are not shortchanged has to

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be the right thing. How big a problem is health to resign? I think

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you'll estimate was on the conservative side. It could be �200

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million a year, which is a lot of money which should be going to

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support British patients. We know there is money... We have not been

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very good in some parts of the country at recouping money from EU

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migrants. Other countries are better at that. In terms of more general

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health tourism, at the minute we don't have any system for properly

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tracking who is accessing the NHS. People are given an NHS number and

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right to access when they turn up. We don't know the full cost, which

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is why it could be up to �200 million. Your boss, Jeremy Hunt,

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said the NHS is owed �12 million from foreigners. That is a figure

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that we know there is money from the EU migrants... There is meant to be

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a money transfer. Why don't you get that before you do anything else?

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are cracking down on that and making sure that we deal with it more

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effectively. We have inherited a system which did not do anything

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like this. In the last three years we have put measures in place, local

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hospitals are getting better at recouping the money than they were.

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There is a problem at some hospitals need to do more, that is why we are

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having a drive on the EU side as well. But the big focus needs to be

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on people from outside of the EU coming in, potentially costing up to

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�200 million a year. That is what we need to focus on, taking sure

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British patients are not shortchanged. If these people can't

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afford to see a doctor or decide they have been put off, they could

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be carrying diseases that we could all end up getting? The point is

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that this system operates in every other country that we may visit. The

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point is that people are coming into this country. If they need emergency

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treatment, that would always be provided. Doctors will always

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provide emergency treatment, but we need to make sure we recoup the

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cost. To recharge for emergency treatment? At the moment, in the

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system from the Labour Government, we do not charge of almost any

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treatment. If they end up in A&E, they will get that free at the point

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of use, but will they subsequently be charged? Initially there was a

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distinction the previous government brought in on what was emergency and

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what was non-emergency. That has become increasingly blurred. What

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would you do? It was blurred because it sums it presents with TB, which

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may be secondary to HIV, there would be other complications of illness

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that develop. The definition of emergency treatment has been widened

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and widened and widened further. There needs to be a more clear

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definition and consultation between immediate life-saving treatment and

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treatment which is more routine, day-to-day care and treatment. We

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have to look into this and make sure we get the money back. What is

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Labour's position? We will consider these proposals. We agree with the

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principle, migrants who come in and use the health service should not be

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able to use it for free. The NHS is a national health this, not an

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international health service. We certainly agree. But we need to get

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a little bit of perspective. The Health Secretary has tried to blame

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foreign migrant workers who come before that who come here for the

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A&E crisis. I thought he was blaming the doctors contract? A contract

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which came in in 2003 is responsible... The principle... ? It

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I think it is workable. If you are not a British citizen, you are not

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paying taxes as a student and so on, you leave again, you should pay for

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your health care? The NHS should be better and more effective at

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recouping the cost. You don't think it is an foe began stigmatising

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foreigners? I don't think so. I'd like to see more foreign students. I

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think it is a great shame that the immigration figures, that the Tory

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led government have been putting downward pressure on students coming

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here. The rest of the world want foreign students. But some of them

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are going to the dodgy foreign language schools, which you allowed

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to fester. When Diane Sabot -- Diane Abbott said, what price, xenophobia?

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She is your shadow public health spokesman. She is wrong? You just

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said you did not think it was xenophobic or stigmatising? I don't

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think the principle of recouping the cost is xenophobic... She does.I

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think she is referring to the fact that there have been some

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Conservative MPs who have tried to blame this issue for other crises.

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She was reacting immediately in the aftermath of Jeremy Hunt's interview

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this morning, outlining the policy that our other guests just has. I

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agree that you should recoup the cost. And she doesn't. The Shadow

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Public Health Minister, the first time she has been quoted since she

:11:06.:11:16.
:11:16.:11:17.

left This Week, said, what price xenophobia? Stigmatising foreigners

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accessing NHS creates a public health risk. That would seem to be

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an attack on the policy. There is a public health risk which you have

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underlined, people could need treatment for TB and other diseases,

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and if untreated, they could infect other people. How long is the

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:11:43.:11:44.

consultation period? It will go into the autumn. There should be

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something later in the year. Should we chalk one up for UKIP?

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On Friday the European Union Referendum Bill has its second

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reading in the House of Commons. The private member's bill, which is

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backed by the Conservative leadership, seeks to commit the

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Government to a referendum on Britain's memberbership of the EU in

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2017, after a renegotiation of powers. And it poses a condundrum

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:12:11.:12:11.

for Labour leader Ed Miliband. Here's Jo with more.

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Everyone knows that David Cameron has problems with Euro rebels.

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Splits in the Tory Party over Europe are almost what we've come to

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expect. But there's also a growing question about what Labour should do

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about Europe. Ed Miliband could face problems of his own, with competing

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factions in his party backing different strategies. On Friday, MPs

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have their first chance to vote on the Conservative Referendum Bill.

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Labour complain the Bill is a Tory stunt, and whips have told

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backbenchers not to bother turning up unless they're prepared to make a

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supportive speech on Labour's position. But some in his party want

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Miliband to commit to his own referendum. One plan is to promise a

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vote within six months of the next election - well, before the Tories'

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2017 timetable. There's even a radical option of demanding a

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referendum before the election. It could be Labour - rather than the

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Conservatives, for a change - who look to be most split on Europe. One

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of the Labour MPs in favour of a referendum is John Cryer, and he

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joins us live from Central Lobby now. John, when would you like the

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in-out referendum? As soon as possible. You have to have this

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decision got out of the way. There have been an awful lot of changes to

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the European constitution and to our Constitution which have shifted

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powers to Brussels. Nobody has had a say since 1975, and it is about time

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they did. We should have a referendum as soon as possible.

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in the minority in your party? wanting a referendum as soon as

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possible, probably, but I think a growing number think it would be a

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good idea. Even the euro supporters think the divide between Parliament

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and the people is just unsustainable. The majority of them,

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including Tories, are reasonably happy with the EU, or staying inside

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the EU. Amongst voters, it is the other way round. You can't sustain

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that. On Friday, will you vote with the Conservatives in defiance of

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your whips? No. I will not turn up and vote, I will abstain. I think

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the bill is a con, it has clearly been hatched by the Tory leadership.

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It would give us a referendum on four or five years. In the meantime,

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the Prime Minister says he will renegotiate membership. We all know,

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including the Conservatives, that that will not happen. He will not

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get any substantive powers back. I don't know why he doesn't have a

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referendum as soon as possible. Ed Miliband change direction? How

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likely is it that Labour could call for a referendum ahead of the

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election? I suppose the bill could be amended to bring the date

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forward, which I think would be a good thing. Your original question

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was Will the Labour Party change its position? In my view, I think we

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will. I am one of those who has said all along, even before David Cameron

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made his original announcement, that we should be calling for a

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referendum, and we should be promising that we will have one

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after the next election, should we win power. Have you any support in

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the shadow cabinet? I don't know. I don't go around canvassing opinion.

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Maybe I should. I understand there are people in the shadow cabinet on

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the front bench who are supportive of my position of others. I put

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forward my arguments. I am not organising anything. I put them

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:15:57.:15:59.

Do you think Labour will change its position before the election?

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have been clear and consistent on this issue, unlike the Tories who

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had a vote in 2011. I will come to him in a moment, tell me about your

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priorities. We said it is the wrong priority at the wrong time.

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Promising a referendum in four years' time creates economic

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uncertainty for four years, could affect foreign investment and

:16:23.:16:31.

therefore, jobs. Martin Sorrell, who is well known to be a Tory

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supporter... He voted with Mr Blair. He tends to be more on the

:16:38.:16:48.
:16:48.:16:48.

conservative side. It's his is simple question. I am asking you is

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there any chance you would change your policy before the General

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Election? We have said we don't want a referendum now and we don't

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want one in four years' time. The Government should focus on the

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economy. If you look at polling, people care more about the economy

:17:05.:17:11.

than anything else. This Bill on Friday is a distraction. Can our

:17:11.:17:16.

viewers concluded you want a change of policy before the election?

:17:16.:17:20.

his two years to go before the election. I have set out our

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position as it is now. I am asking is there any chance you will change

:17:24.:17:32.

this before we go to the polls? will keep on the statute book, the

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referendum mock. Secondly, Europe is in a state of great flux. The

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argument is abating, but ongoing. We don't know what the dynamic will

:17:45.:17:51.

be between those in the eurozone and the UK. Croatia is outside.

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Let's see what happens with the dynamics of that relationship.

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are keeping your options open? Are you telling me then, as a result of

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the so-called dynamics between those within the eurozone and those

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out of the eurozone, between now and 2015, you might change of

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policy? I don't think it will change significantly. So you won't

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change a policy? I do not expect us to. It would be silly to rule out

:18:21.:18:30.
:18:31.:18:31.

something. You are keeping your options open. We need to make these

:18:31.:18:35.

decisions on the national interest. What matters now, is when the

:18:35.:18:41.

eurozone integration happens, but the UK still has a say in what

:18:41.:18:46.

happens. This Bill is not worth the paper it is written on is it? After

:18:46.:18:51.

the next election the new Parliament will decide if we will

:18:51.:18:56.

have a referendum in 2017, not this Parliament. You cannot bind the

:18:56.:19:00.

next Parliament? If this as past as law, the next Parliament will have

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to vote down, which it can do. It will have to make a proactive

:19:07.:19:12.

exercise to do that. It would set into law that we will have a

:19:12.:19:16.

referendum in 2017. There would have to be further legislation

:19:16.:19:21.

before a referendum. You would have to legislate for the referendum?

:19:21.:19:28.

would have to go further, but it would require a new Parliament to

:19:28.:19:31.

directly the vote down the bill that had been passed. In other

:19:31.:19:36.

words it won't compel a Government to have a referendum in 2017, there

:19:36.:19:44.

would have to be another vote. It would make it difficult for David

:19:44.:19:48.

Cameron, if he were still to be Prime Minister ought for

:19:48.:19:53.

Conservative Government, Labour and the Lib Dems could say, we want

:19:53.:20:00.

another boat. It would be stated that the next Parliament would say

:20:00.:20:07.

they want to change what is done in this Parliament. According to the

:20:07.:20:11.

authorities, it would still require further legislation, if you past

:20:11.:20:15.

this. The next Parliament would have to pass for the legislation?

:20:16.:20:20.

The next Parliament would have to do more, but they would have to

:20:20.:20:25.

underwrite to say they wouldn't do what they wouldn't do what was

:20:25.:20:30.

passed in this Parliament. That implies that unless you have a vote

:20:30.:20:34.

to undo it, it would happen automatically. It won't happen

:20:34.:20:39.

automatically. The Commons authorities have stated, in order

:20:39.:20:43.

for it to happen and to go ahead, there will still have to be

:20:43.:20:49.

legislation? There will have to beat actions taken. They would have

:20:49.:20:55.

to be proactive or reacted to stop it on the basis of the fact we are

:20:55.:20:58.

initiating something in this Parliament. The Conservative Party

:20:58.:21:02.

wants to give the people a say on Europe. It is a clear issue in the

:21:02.:21:08.

country to have an open and frank discussion about Europe. I was born

:21:08.:21:12.

in 1978 and I did not have a vote on Europe. We should look at how

:21:12.:21:15.

Europe should be and in the meantime look at what powers we

:21:15.:21:21.

need to take back. Another issue for the Labour Party is the unions.

:21:21.:21:27.

His United trying to take over your party? No, the Labour Party grew

:21:27.:21:31.

out of the trade union party. I think the Prime Minister needs to

:21:31.:21:35.

be careful when he talks about trade union barons. There are lots

:21:36.:21:41.

of working people across the country who are members of a trade

:21:41.:21:46.

union survey get protection from unfair dismissal. Not many of them

:21:46.:21:50.

are members of the Labour Party, individually. The some of them are.

:21:50.:21:56.

Not many. The percentage of union members compared to the percentage

:21:56.:22:02.

of Labour members is very small. Why have 12 Labour constituencies

:22:02.:22:07.

been in special measures since 2005? This is a fatuous article in

:22:07.:22:12.

the Times, which frankly does not deserve to be on the front page.

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am not talking about the times. I am not linking anything. I am

:22:19.:22:23.

asking you why, because the Times article, which I am not depending

:22:23.:22:29.

on, because it fudged the timing, why have 12 neighbour

:22:29.:22:37.

constituencies been in special measures since 20 -- 2005. Some of

:22:37.:22:40.

those constituencies go back further than 2005. I know why you

:22:40.:22:46.

are asking this question. There has been a problem in Falkirk. Ed

:22:46.:22:50.

Miliband has been very decisive in putting a stop to what was

:22:50.:22:55.

happening, because there were serious allegations of wrongdoing.

:22:55.:23:00.

I am not asking about Falkirk. We know it is recently into special

:23:00.:23:07.

measures. Special measures mean the constituency party is taken over by

:23:07.:23:10.

the National Party and it is national officials who oversee it.

:23:10.:23:15.

I would like to know the answer why these constituencies you put into

:23:15.:23:21.

special measures into 2005 - knot Falkirk, why are they still in

:23:21.:23:27.

special measures? There were problems in these constituencies.

:23:27.:23:35.

You have had years to sort it out. The party has felt the need to

:23:35.:23:39.

monitor what has happened over time. If we were not doing that, you

:23:39.:23:43.

would be asking why we are not keeping a close eye on it. If you

:23:43.:23:51.

do not know, that is fine. Is it right that a union like United

:23:51.:23:55.

should be able to round up 100 people to join the Labour Party,

:23:56.:24:00.

send the names to the Labour Party with a cheque from the union to pay

:24:00.:24:07.

for their membership, is that right? I think it is wrong. It is a

:24:07.:24:14.

one-member, one-vote. We read introduce that in the 1990s. If you

:24:14.:24:17.

are a member of the Labour Party, you should make a personal

:24:17.:24:22.

commitment. It is a one-member, one-vote in the selections. So you

:24:22.:24:28.

are against it, that is clear. Now, travel to foreign places can

:24:28.:24:32.

often be uncomfortable. There's getting over the language barrier,

:24:32.:24:34.

acclimatising yourself to the weather and adapting to local

:24:34.:24:37.

customs, as the Prime Minister found when he inspected a guard of

:24:37.:24:40.

honour accompanied by a goose- stepping soldier on his trip to

:24:40.:24:44.

Kazakhstan this week. But a good host always tries to make his

:24:44.:24:47.

guests more comfortable, and what better way to make a Brit feel at

:24:47.:24:57.
:24:57.:25:01.

home than brewing him a nice cup of tea in a Daily Politics mug! There

:25:01.:25:06.

it is, we get every work. If you want to be as hospitable to your

:25:06.:25:09.

guests as the Kazakhstan President, now is your chance to get hold of

:25:09.:25:14.

one of our well travelled mugs. We'll remind you how to enter in a

:25:14.:25:24.
:25:24.:25:24.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 81 seconds

:25:24.:26:45.

minute, but let's see if you can To be in with a chance of winning a

:26:45.:26:48.

Daily Politics mug, send your answer to our special quiz email

:26:48.:26:53.

address: [email protected] And you can see the full terms and

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conditions for Guess The Year on our website:

:26:55.:27:05.
:27:05.:27:16.

First time I think we have done a year that I was not born.

:27:16.:27:20.

It's coming up to midday here. Just take a look at Big Ben. That can

:27:20.:27:23.

mean only one thing - Yes, Prime Minister's Questions is on its way.

:27:23.:27:33.

And that's not all, Nick Robinson is here. Do we have moving pictures

:27:33.:27:40.

for the year you were born! You are very brave!

:27:40.:27:49.

You treated this morning -- outwitted. The press charter is

:27:50.:27:54.

going to the Privy Council, but it is not the Government or the

:27:54.:28:00.

opposition's Press Charter, it is the press's pressed charter?

:28:00.:28:05.

Parliament agreed, or the party leaders agreed a common approach

:28:05.:28:10.

for a new Royal charter to establish an organisation like the

:28:10.:28:15.

BBC and other public bodies, to establish a new form of press

:28:15.:28:21.

regulation. We all had to wait for the Privy Council, the advisers to

:28:21.:28:25.

the Queen to sign things off, to actually make this happen. It was

:28:25.:28:30.

supposed to go in May, it did not go. Everybody assumed it would go

:28:30.:28:33.

to the next meeting of the Privy Council, and that his next

:28:33.:28:42.

Wednesday. The victims of press abuse, people like JK Rowling,

:28:42.:28:46.

Madeleine McCann's parents and others, said get on with it. But

:28:46.:28:51.

the charter that will go before the Privy Council next week won't be

:28:51.:28:55.

the one Parliament agreed, not the one the Prime Minister and the

:28:55.:28:59.

Leader of the Opposition and Nick Clegg once, it will be the press's

:28:59.:29:03.

rival proposal. It is not because it is about to become approved and

:29:03.:29:07.

accepted, it is because the lawyers are saying, if you don't go through

:29:07.:29:14.

the proper processes, there will be a massive court case in which the

:29:14.:29:18.

newspapers of it down for many months. Is it the newspapers or the

:29:18.:29:24.

Government that has put forward this charter? There are two rival

:29:24.:29:32.

charters. Who has put forward the press one? It is the press who is

:29:32.:29:39.

doing it? The people who used to run the old regulators. The

:29:39.:29:42.

expectation is the Privy Council won't sign off on this, but the

:29:42.:29:47.

view of the lawyer's, if you are a cynic you might think the

:29:47.:29:50.

Government are playing for time, but it is the advice they are

:29:50.:29:53.

getting. It is not enough for ministers to look at it and say,

:29:53.:30:00.

forget that. But in legal jargon, this is a credible proposal for a

:30:00.:30:03.

Royal charter so must go through every possible stage, even if it is

:30:03.:30:10.

rejected. To prevent the judicial review? The legal challenge would

:30:10.:30:16.

be that it is not a fairly and justly considered. Hacked off will

:30:16.:30:26.
:30:26.:30:28.

be very hacked off. We had hacked off, we will have really, really

:30:28.:30:33.

hacked off! More than ever before. They have a meeting with the

:30:33.:30:38.

Culture Secretary this afternoon. They are treading carefully because

:30:38.:30:43.

they regard the Culture Secretary as a target. We are now over to

:30:43.:30:53.
:30:53.:31:07.

the best way to celebrate the 65th birthday of the NHS is for the

:31:07.:31:14.

government to strip out the culture of secrecy, and for patient safety,

:31:14.:31:19.

have health professionals back at the heart of the NHS? The way to

:31:19.:31:23.

celebrate the 65th birthday of the NHS is to go on investing in it like

:31:23.:31:27.

this government is, with an extra �12 billion, but also to be on the

:31:27.:31:32.

side of patients. That is why we are introducing the Chief Inspector of

:31:32.:31:36.

hospitals. We need to end the culture of secrecy and cover-up that

:31:36.:31:46.
:31:46.:31:46.

we had under Labour. Mr Ed Miliband!

:31:46.:31:51.

I am sure I speak for everyone when I say there is deep concern over

:31:51.:31:55.

what we have witnessed in Egypt, including appalling violence and

:31:55.:32:00.

deaths just one year on from free elections. Might I ask the Prime

:32:00.:32:05.

Minister for assurances that all the appropriate steps are being taken to

:32:05.:32:10.

guarantee the safety of UK nationals in that safety? I can give him that

:32:10.:32:16.

assurance, and also to safeguard our embassy in Cairo. We are advising

:32:16.:32:19.

British National Party against all but essential travel to Egypt,

:32:19.:32:23.

except for the red Sea resorts, as set out on the foreign office

:32:23.:32:27.

website. These are deeply disturbing scenes. The level of violence is

:32:27.:32:32.

appalling. We should appeal to all sides to stop the levels of

:32:32.:32:36.

violence, and particularly the sexual assaults. It is not for this

:32:36.:32:41.

country to support any single group or party. We should support proper,

:32:41.:32:45.

democratic processes and proper government by consent. I agree with

:32:45.:32:50.

him, we all want to see a proper resolution to the present crisis.

:32:50.:32:54.

Can he tell the house what work is being done, even at this late stage,

:32:55.:33:00.

by the UK and the European Union, to encourage the Egyptian government to

:33:00.:33:04.

secure a negotiated political solution to this crisis in advance

:33:04.:33:11.

of today's Egyptian army deadline? Very clear messages have been sent

:33:11.:33:20.

to President Morsi, Obama, who has spoken to him directly. -- very

:33:20.:33:23.

clear messages have been sent to President Morsi, including by

:33:23.:33:32.

President Obama , who has spoken to him directly. The government needs

:33:32.:33:36.

to bring about peace and stability in that country.

:33:36.:33:40.

I am grateful for his answer, and I know that he and the Foreign

:33:40.:33:45.

Secretary will keep the house updated in the coming days. On

:33:45.:33:49.

another subject, the country will need 240,000 extra primary school

:33:49.:33:55.

places by 2014. Can he assure parents that this won't be met by

:33:55.:34:00.

increasing class sizes? I can assure him that we put in

:34:00.:34:04.

place, through the Spending Review, the additional money for 500 errors

:34:04.:34:09.

and extra school places, so we should be able to provide those

:34:09.:34:17.

school places without seeing an increase in classes. But class sizes

:34:18.:34:21.

are rising. When the Labour government came to office, the

:34:21.:34:25.

number of infants taught in class sizes over 30 was a quarter. When we

:34:25.:34:31.

left, it was just 1.8%. It has doubled on his watch. That is the

:34:31.:34:35.

reality for many parents. Under his plans, one third of new schools are

:34:35.:34:40.

being built in areas where there are surplus places. Can he explain to

:34:40.:34:42.

parents in areas where they are struggling to get children into

:34:42.:34:47.

primary schools, why he is building schools where there are already

:34:47.:34:54.

plenty of places? What he left is the biggest budget deficit in

:34:54.:34:58.

Britain's peacetime history. We have had to make difficult decisions,

:34:59.:35:05.

that is why we have cut welfare, but areas of spending. But an education,

:35:05.:35:09.

we have made it a priority, and that is why the money going into schools

:35:09.:35:16.

is going up and not down. That is why we are funding half a million

:35:16.:35:19.

extra school places and why this government has built 200 new school

:35:19.:35:26.

buildings. Now, he asks about new schools going in to different areas.

:35:26.:35:34.

What that is code for is Labour's opposition to free schools. We want

:35:34.:35:39.

more new good schools. Their policy is still the same as John

:35:39.:35:44.

Prescott's. Remember that? The trouble with good schools is that

:35:44.:35:49.

everyone wants to go to them. We want good schools but, as ever, his

:35:49.:35:56.

questions are written by Len McCluskey of Unite.

:35:56.:36:05.

Mr Speaker, as always, this Prime Minister has no answers to the

:36:05.:36:11.

questions he is asked. If he won't answer me, maybe he'll answer David

:36:11.:36:18.

Simons. He is the Conservative spokesman for the Local Government

:36:18.:36:23.

Association. This is what he says. We know of schools that are

:36:23.:36:28.

literally falling down and still have to compete with Rand new-builds

:36:28.:36:33.

down the road. In other words, in areas where there are surplus

:36:33.:36:37.

places. Isn't the truth that while he is pouring millions of pounds

:36:37.:36:41.

into building new schools where there are already places, the only

:36:41.:36:47.

way he will meet the shortage in other areas is teaching kids in

:36:47.:36:53.

Portakabins and increasing class sizes? The last Labour government

:36:53.:36:55.

cut primary school places. Let me tell him what his government is

:36:55.:37:02.

doing. The education capital budget is �21 billion over the next six

:37:02.:37:07.

years. That is what we are doing. What is so interesting is that he is

:37:07.:37:12.

taking his script from the trade unions, who don't like choice, they

:37:12.:37:16.

don't like new schools, they don't like free schools. They want to

:37:16.:37:21.

control everything. What we know is one organisation they have got

:37:21.:37:25.

control. We see it in black and white - they have taken control of

:37:25.:37:34.

the Labour. Mr Speaker, I am speaking for

:37:34.:37:44.
:37:44.:37:46.

parents up and down this country. The usual very low grade, very

:37:46.:37:48.

substandard, very unnecessary heckling. If the question that mad

:37:48.:37:54.

recession has two run longer, it will. Let's try to retain some

:37:54.:37:58.

decorum which the public can respect.

:37:58.:38:05.

And let's have a debate about ethics. He gave a tax cut to his

:38:05.:38:09.

Christmas card list, he brought Andy Coulson into the heart of Downing

:38:09.:38:16.

Street. The idea that he is lecturing us about ethics takes a

:38:16.:38:18.

double standards to a whole new level.

:38:18.:38:26.

Now, in this one policy on schools, we see the hallmark of this

:38:26.:38:31.

government. They make the wrong choices on tax and spending. The

:38:31.:38:36.

millionaires tax cuts, the top-down we organisation of the NHS and

:38:36.:38:41.

schools in areas with surplus places. All the time, they repeat

:38:41.:38:47.

the meaningless mantra, we all this together.

:38:47.:38:51.

He goes up and down the country speaking for Len McCluskey. No

:38:51.:38:55.

wonder the former Home Secretary calls them the party of the

:38:55.:39:01.

graveyard. The fact is, I have got it here, I have got the press

:39:01.:39:06.

release, how Unite plans to change the Labour Party. I know you are

:39:06.:39:11.

paid to shout by Unite, but calmed down a bit! This is what it says. We

:39:11.:39:16.

give millions to the party. The relationship has to change. We want

:39:16.:39:23.

a firm E class -based and left-wing general election campaign. He is too

:39:24.:39:27.

weak to sack his Health Secretary, to stand up for free schools, to

:39:27.:39:33.

stand up to the Unite union, too weak to run Labour and certainly too

:39:33.:39:43.
:39:43.:39:51.

New rules mean my constituents have to register individually if they

:39:51.:39:56.

want to vote to stop electoral fraud. Does he think the same rules

:39:56.:40:01.

should apply to joining a political party? I think she is absolutely

:40:01.:40:06.

right. Individual voter registration is a major step forward. Frankly, we

:40:06.:40:11.

have a situation where we have one of our political parties where it

:40:11.:40:14.

has become apparent that votes are being bought, people are being

:40:14.:40:20.

signed up without consent, all done by the man, let McCluskey, who gave

:40:20.:40:30.
:40:30.:40:34.

him his job. Demand for food banks is 30,000

:40:34.:40:37.

households -- was 30,000 households in media before the general

:40:37.:40:43.

election, 350,000 households last year. Will the Prime Minister

:40:43.:40:46.

acknowledged that rocketing demand for food bank shows we have a

:40:46.:40:52.

problem? I am sure as a member of Unite, he will want to look very

:40:52.:40:58.

carefully at his own constituency Labour Party. Who knows how many

:40:58.:41:03.

people they have bought and put on the register? Food bank use went up

:41:03.:41:08.

ten times under Labour. That is what happened. This government is helping

:41:08.:41:13.

working people by freezing the council tax, giving 24 million

:41:13.:41:17.

people a tax cut and taking 2.4 million of the poorest people out of

:41:17.:41:25.

tax. The Prime Minister will be aware of the recent terrible

:41:25.:41:29.

stabbings in my Shipley constituted which led to the death of an

:41:29.:41:35.

84-year-old woman and a serious injury to a nine-year old boy

:41:35.:41:38.

playing in the park. Will he join me in praising the police for the

:41:38.:41:43.

swiftness of making arrests in this particular case, but also in

:41:43.:41:46.

supporting the local community and congratulating them on their

:41:46.:41:50.

steadfastness and community spirit, which has helped this community get

:41:50.:41:57.

through a very, very traumatic period? I certainly join the

:41:57.:42:00.

honourable member. These were truly shocking events and reading about

:42:00.:42:04.

them, particularly the young boy who staggered out of the park bleeding,

:42:04.:42:08.

having been stabbed, and reading about the grandmother described as

:42:08.:42:12.

so much of a community member that they were seen as everybody's

:42:12.:42:17.

grandmother is truly disturbing. I join him in his praise, and we must

:42:17.:42:20.

make sure that justice is to. The government has promised that by

:42:20.:42:27.

2016, no one will have to pay more than �72,000 towards the cost of

:42:27.:42:33.

that personal care. I don't know whether he has read an article in

:42:33.:42:36.

the Financial Times on Saturday which says that the cap will not be

:42:36.:42:40.

an actual costs, but eligible costs. They will not include the

:42:40.:42:44.

cost of people meeting moderate care needs, nor all the costs incurred in

:42:44.:42:48.

going into a private residential home. Isn't this another example of

:42:48.:42:51.

him promising to do one thing and planning something completely

:42:51.:42:57.

different? We are introducing what was debated

:42:57.:43:00.

and discussed in this house in terms of those cost that will be covered,

:43:00.:43:06.

and those that will not. The party opposite had 13 years to cap the

:43:06.:43:10.

cost of care, to do something about the rising cost of social care, and

:43:10.:43:16.

did precisely nothing. May I congratulate the government on

:43:16.:43:20.

achieving political agreement for the next round of reform? That might

:43:20.:43:26.

I make a plea, that proper time be taken to agreed implementation, to

:43:26.:43:30.

ensure a level playing field and a fair deal for Britain and our

:43:30.:43:34.

farmers? The honourable lady is right. We

:43:34.:43:38.

have a good deal over the common agricultural policy. We need to

:43:38.:43:43.

listen to farmers about concerns so they are not disadvantaged as

:43:43.:43:47.

against other countries, and we need to take time to introduce the new

:43:47.:43:51.

system. When the last system, in terms of the single farm payments,

:43:51.:43:55.

was introduced so quickly, we suffered large fines from Europe as

:43:55.:44:01.

a result. She is extremely wise. Minister aware of the rather

:44:01.:44:06.

disturbing commitment, which was given yesterday by his Chancellor,

:44:06.:44:10.

that he will continue to interfere and intervene in the affairs of the

:44:10.:44:16.

Royal Bank of Scotland on behalf of the taxpayer? Is he aware that in

:44:16.:44:24.

his last intervention the completely irresponsible behaviour has cost the

:44:24.:44:29.

British taxpayer �4.5 billion in the loss of value of the shareholding.

:44:29.:44:33.

Pity instructors Chancellor to desist from any such intervention in

:44:33.:44:40.

the future? -- could he instructed his Chancellor to desist?

:44:40.:44:48.

I know he has experience of lending money!

:44:48.:44:52.

It is very important that the government stands up for the

:44:52.:44:55.

taxpayer and makes sure that the Royal Bank of Scotland has the right

:44:55.:45:00.

strategy and leadership going ahead so that they get the money put by

:45:00.:45:10.
:45:10.:45:13.

the last government into the banks Two days ago saw the start of

:45:13.:45:19.

independent retailer month. Does he agree we need to do more to keep

:45:19.:45:24.

independent shops vital question marks on this issue I agree with

:45:24.:45:30.

the honourable gentleman. He speaks for a lot of Britain, and that is a

:45:30.:45:35.

we should be looking at our town centres, looking after what we can

:45:35.:45:39.

do to back our town centres. We should be looking at the rate

:45:39.:45:43.

system and how it works. We should also be looking at a planning

:45:43.:45:48.

system and how we can use change of use and we should work with local

:45:48.:45:52.

authorities who want to see the town centres succeed. It is a vital

:45:52.:46:01.

issue for towns of and down our country and it has our full backing.

:46:01.:46:05.

I enjoyed my recent visit to the Nissan factory in Sunderland for

:46:05.:46:10.

the first of the mass market electric vehicle which will support

:46:10.:46:15.

over 500 jobs at the plant and 200 across the car industry. I look

:46:15.:46:20.

forward to visiting the North East again soon. When the Prime Minister

:46:20.:46:24.

next visit the region he will seek the key issue facing the region is

:46:24.:46:29.

unemployment. There are over 20 applicants for every advertised

:46:29.:46:33.

vacancy and his policy of local enterprise partnerships and

:46:33.:46:38.

enterprise zones is not making the same effective impact on the

:46:38.:46:44.

region's economy as the development agency did. Will he consider the

:46:44.:46:47.

appointment of a minister to work with the local enterprise

:46:47.:46:50.

partnerships and the individual members of Parliament for the

:46:50.:46:56.

region, to push forward the private sector employment agenda? Ministers

:46:56.:47:01.

do work with the enterprise zones. Let me give him the figures.

:47:01.:47:05.

Obviously we want to see more, but employment in the North East is up

:47:05.:47:10.

by 9,000 since the election. The North East private sector jobs are

:47:10.:47:15.

up 37,000. It is not just the success at Nissan, we have Hitachi

:47:15.:47:19.

committed to building the new train building plant in County Durham.

:47:19.:47:25.

That will bring 700 jobs. We have the new tunnel which opened in 2011,

:47:25.:47:30.

extra money going into the Tyne and Wear Metro. All of those things can

:47:30.:47:34.

make a difference. And in his own constituency, the youth claimant

:47:34.:47:41.

count has fallen by 4% over the last year. Will the Prime Minister

:47:41.:47:46.

take the opportunity on his next visit to promote apprenticeships

:47:46.:47:48.

and the support Government is giving to them among North East

:47:48.:47:53.

businesses, and will he pressed the Ministry of Transport to get on

:47:53.:47:59.

with the job of doing it? The last time I was in the north-east I made

:47:59.:48:03.

a speech about apprenticeships. It is remarkable the number of people

:48:03.:48:07.

who started apprenticeships under this Government. I can tell him in

:48:07.:48:12.

terms of the transport issue he raises, is actually we are funding

:48:12.:48:17.

feasibility studies into fixing problems on the road north of

:48:17.:48:23.

Newcastle to Scotland, and the Newcastle Gateshead bypass. We are

:48:23.:48:26.

improving the a 19 between Newcastle and South Shields. This

:48:26.:48:30.

is a much better record than the party opposite, even though they

:48:30.:48:34.

had a Prime Minister who came from the north-east. They never did what

:48:34.:48:40.

we are proposing. Given the Prime Minister is so keen to talk about

:48:40.:48:45.

infrastructure investments, can he explain why his Government has cut

:48:45.:48:51.

capital investment again in 2015, 16 by nearly �1 billion? I have to

:48:52.:48:56.

say to the honourable lady, she is wrong. If she looks at the figures

:48:56.:48:59.

and take the plan as a Labour had for this Parliament, we have added

:48:59.:49:04.

to those plans. We have increased the amount of capital spending. But

:49:04.:49:09.

if you come to this House and you oppose changes on welfare, you

:49:09.:49:13.

oppose cuts to Government programmes, you oppose the of this

:49:13.:49:16.

and she changes it you are making, they have not supported a single

:49:16.:49:21.

cut. It you do all of those things, there is no way you would have any

:49:21.:49:25.

capital spending at all. That is the problem with the weakness from

:49:25.:49:29.

the Labour front bench, because they have not taken any tough

:49:29.:49:32.

decisions they cannot support the capital spenders To this country

:49:32.:49:38.

needs. Can the Prime Minister confirm reports from Jordan a new

:49:38.:49:42.

treaty has been signed and this country could have the pleasure of

:49:42.:49:50.

seeing the back off Abu Qatada this week? I can confirm this treaty has

:49:50.:49:54.

taken through both the Jordanian Parliament and also our own. I

:49:54.:49:58.

don't want to say anything that in any way could stop what we all want

:49:58.:50:03.

to happen, happening. When the Government tried to go workers to

:50:03.:50:06.

exchange their rights for shares, we were told 6,000 businesses would

:50:06.:50:13.

sign up. In the event only six have shown an interest. Not 600 or 60,

:50:13.:50:19.

but six, what went wrong? programme has not started yet. It

:50:19.:50:23.

starts in September. It is a programme that has been praised by

:50:23.:50:28.

the Institute of Directors, praised by the CBI, praised by the

:50:28.:50:33.

Federation of Small Businesses. Of course it has not been praised by

:50:33.:50:36.

of the United unions. He is a member of the unite unions so he

:50:36.:50:43.

has to stick to their script. What a sad day for democracy. Question

:50:43.:50:53.
:50:53.:50:56.

Number Ten. I very much for, I look forward to visiting Bury and I

:50:56.:51:02.

always take special time to look at the statue of Sir Robert Peel.

:51:02.:51:09.

Whenever the Prime Minister does find time to sample the delights of

:51:09.:51:14.

a Bury, Ramsbottom and Tottington again, will he join me in meeting

:51:14.:51:19.

some of the hundreds of local small businesses and charities who will

:51:19.:51:26.

be �2,000 a year better off from next April, because of the new

:51:26.:51:30.

employment allowance which will cost employers and National

:51:30.:51:33.

Insurance contributions, giving them an incentive to create genuine

:51:33.:51:38.

new jobs? I think my honourable friend is absolutely right. You can

:51:38.:51:43.

walk down any high street in any town in Britain and point out to

:51:43.:51:47.

shopkeepers and businesses, if they do employ people they will see a

:51:48.:51:51.

�2,000 reduction in their National Insurance bill. If they don't

:51:51.:51:56.

employed people, they can take people on and not pay National

:51:56.:52:00.

Insurance. It is only possible because of the tough decisions this

:52:00.:52:05.

Government has taken on spending and welfare. It was never backed by

:52:05.:52:09.

the party opposite but it demonstrate we are on the side of

:52:09.:52:13.

people who want to get on. Prime Minister's deputy party

:52:13.:52:17.

leader in Scotland is describing the UK Government's scaremongering

:52:17.:52:21.

about independence as silly, whilst one of his key donors in Scotland

:52:21.:52:26.

is describing it as puerile, and a leading commentator says it is

:52:26.:52:33.

tripe. Given the Prime Minister is in charge of UK For -- fear for the

:52:33.:52:38.

UK Government, will he ditched this tripe? I was asked this question

:52:38.:52:44.

yesterday. I will give a different but similar answer, which is if you

:52:44.:52:47.

look at the information being produced by this Government on what

:52:47.:52:52.

would happen in terms of Scottish independence, I think it is

:52:52.:52:58.

impartial, extremely powerful and sensible. The fact is, the Scottish

:52:58.:53:02.

nationalists are using the argument. They are losing the arguments on

:53:02.:53:06.

jobs, losing the argument on the economy and losing the argument on

:53:06.:53:11.

the influence Scotland will have on the world. Bring on the arguments,

:53:11.:53:19.

because you are losing the battle. We have raised over �10,000 for

:53:19.:53:23.

local and a underprivileged children's. I'm sure the Prime

:53:23.:53:28.

Minister will join me in praising these local voluntary clubs in the

:53:28.:53:32.

community. It is in stark contrast to the kind of institution we tried

:53:32.:53:41.

to block via political influence... My honourable friend is right. It

:53:41.:53:45.

is an honour I am an honorary member of my local Rotary Club.

:53:45.:53:49.

They are unimportant part of the big society, they do an excellent

:53:49.:53:53.

job and they don't go round hoovering up members by making

:53:53.:54:01.

single payments from trade unions in order to buy influence. In March,

:54:01.:54:05.

the climate change minister said, I wouldn't be sleeping if we did not

:54:05.:54:09.

have 10,000 signed up to the green deal by the end of the year. Given

:54:09.:54:13.

that only four households have signed on the dotted line, is that

:54:13.:54:23.
:54:23.:54:24.

Len McClusky is false as well? -- fault. He is wrong about the

:54:24.:54:29.

figures for stomp of 37,000 households have had assessments and

:54:29.:54:37.

over 5,000 have had their boy has changed. Of course, I sorry I

:54:37.:54:40.

missed out the honourable member have received sponsorship from the

:54:40.:54:46.

unite Union. Oh you don't! I suspect he ought to go through his

:54:46.:54:50.

constituency Records, checked the members are still alive, that it

:54:50.:54:55.

might be a good start. The Prime Minister has won much praise for

:54:55.:54:59.

his work on dealing with tax avoidance, but some people have

:54:59.:55:04.

called him hypocritical, what does he say to that? What is

:55:04.:55:08.

hypocritical is to take donations from a donor in the form of shares

:55:08.:55:12.

in order to avoid taxes. That is what the Labour Party has done.

:55:12.:55:16.

They should pay back the �700,000 to the taxpayer and that money

:55:16.:55:23.

should be going towards schools and hospitals. That is Labour's shame.

:55:23.:55:26.

Can the Prime Minister confirmed the laces work programme figures

:55:26.:55:31.

show it is missing every single one of its minimum performance

:55:31.:55:36.

standards? The honourable lady is asking about the work programme.

:55:36.:55:43.

The fact is it has 312,000 people into work. 60% of the people going

:55:43.:55:47.

into the work programme are coming off benefits and while the unite

:55:47.:55:51.

Union and the members opposite might not want to hear this, and

:55:51.:55:56.

while it might not be part of Len McClusky's script, this programme

:55:56.:56:03.

is twice as good as the flexible New Deal. As a doctor who once had

:56:03.:56:10.

to listen incredulously to a patient at explain via a translator

:56:10.:56:14.

or that she only discovered she was nine months pregnant on arrival at

:56:14.:56:19.

Heathrow Airport, I was pleased to hear the statement on health

:56:19.:56:23.

tourism today. Does the Prime Minister agreed that although

:56:23.:56:28.

savings are modest, the principal matters. The health service should

:56:28.:56:31.

be national and not international? I think my honourable friend makes

:56:31.:56:36.

an important point. It is a National Health Service and not

:56:36.:56:40.

internationals. British families pay around �5,000 in year in taxes

:56:40.:56:45.

to pay for the NHS. It is bright but those who don't have a right to

:56:45.:56:48.

use the NHS gets properly charged for it. We have made this

:56:48.:56:55.

announcement and I hope there will be all-party support for it, but

:56:55.:57:02.

Labour's health minister has condemned it as xenophobic.

:57:02.:57:06.

bedroom tax is turning into a disaster in constituencies like

:57:06.:57:11.

mine. Families are moving out of good quality, social housing and

:57:11.:57:16.

into the private rented sector at a cost to the taxpayer. Three and

:57:16.:57:21.

four-bedroom houses are standing empty and classed as hard to let.

:57:21.:57:24.

We have pensioners approaching me saying they want to downside but

:57:24.:57:30.

they can't because priorities go to families. Is this not turning into

:57:30.:57:35.

a disaster for the taxpayer? What this is his first for the taxpayer.

:57:35.:57:38.

We don't give a spare room subsidy for people in private sector

:57:39.:57:43.

accommodation, so we shouldn't give a spare room subsidy for people in

:57:43.:57:48.

council accommodation. The question now is for the party opposite. We

:57:48.:57:54.

have decided to remove the spare room subsidy, they now say they

:57:54.:57:58.

support of spending changes. Is that still the case or are they

:57:58.:58:03.

committed to repealing this? Absolutely no answer. The shocking

:58:03.:58:07.

abuse that was revealed in Winterbourne view and by operation

:58:07.:58:11.

Jasmin in Wales has revealed a gap in the law which means that whilst

:58:11.:58:15.

the staff get prosecuted, the organisations are never corporate

:58:15.:58:19.

LEA accountable. Will a Prime Minister meet with me and a small

:58:19.:58:23.

delegation to discuss how we can plug this gap in the law and ensure

:58:24.:58:28.

there is proper accountability for abuse and neglect? I am happy to

:58:28.:58:32.

meet with him about this issue because it is important. In the

:58:32.:58:36.

Francis report there were a number of recommendations about duties of

:58:36.:58:39.

care and the duty of candour we need to put in place. I am keen to

:58:40.:58:45.

make sure we get this done. Royal charter approved by this

:58:45.:58:49.

House, still not been sent to the Privy Council when it should have

:58:49.:58:53.

been in May. Will he assured his house and the victims that he won't

:58:53.:58:58.

do a deal with certain newspapers to further watered down the

:58:58.:59:02.

recommendations? What I will save to the right honourable gentleman,

:59:02.:59:07.

we have to follow the correct legal processes. The legal advice we have

:59:07.:59:10.

shared with the Leader of the Opposition is we have to take these

:59:10.:59:14.

things in order. We have to take the press Royal charter proposal

:59:14.:59:18.

first, then we have to bring forward the Royal Charter of which

:59:18.:59:23.

we have all agreed. The press's Royal Charter has some serious

:59:23.:59:33.
:59:33.:59:33.

shortcomings, so I have not changed my view. Mr Speaker...

:59:33.:59:39.

gentleman wanted to be called, I have called him. I am most grateful,

:59:39.:59:49.
:59:49.:59:53.

Mr Speaker. Given a selection of Parliamentary candidates is a

:59:53.:59:59.

legitimate concern of this House, will have Prime Minister agree with

:59:59.:00:02.

me that the voting irregularities in the Falkirk constituency should

:00:02.:00:08.

be looked at as a matter of urgency? Order, order. The question

:00:08.:00:14.

is about apart the matter, not Government responsibility. Not a

:00:14.:00:20.

matter for the Prime Minister. A complete waste of time. Mr Peter

:00:20.:00:26.

Bone. Mr Speaker, the all-party group against human trafficking has

:00:26.:00:30.

raised the awareness of modern-day slavery to a greater level. I am

:00:30.:00:36.

delighted to report last night, 150 members of this House and the other

:00:36.:00:40.

house, attended the AGM. It is a credit to the Prime Minister's

:00:40.:00:45.

personal commitment to this. Would he consider, and perhaps in the

:00:45.:00:51.

next Queen's Speech having a modern slavery Act? I pay tribute to the

:00:51.:00:54.

honourable member for the consistent work he has done on this

:00:54.:00:59.

vital issues. It is important we wipe out a modern-day slavery and I

:00:59.:01:02.

enjoyed going to meet with him and other members, in the House of

:01:02.:01:07.

Commons, in order to see just how bad the situation is. We are

:01:08.:01:10.

looking at legislative options and I will be chairing a committee

:01:10.:01:16.

across Government to look at what more could be done. Glenda Jackson.

:01:16.:01:20.

One of my constituents and her three-year-old child have become

:01:20.:01:26.

homeless fleeing the most heinous domestic violence. And now, despite

:01:26.:01:30.

a legally living and working in this country for four years,

:01:30.:01:35.

immigration technicality has made them destitute. Will the Prime

:01:35.:01:38.

Minister please examine this legislation and its possibly

:01:38.:01:42.

unintended consequences, so in future no woman and her child may

:01:42.:01:48.

suffer a double abuse? I am happy to look at the individual case the

:01:48.:01:51.

honourable lady raises. It is linked to the last question about

:01:51.:01:57.

modern-day slavery, were sometimes immigration rules have caused

:01:57.:02:01.

slavery -- difficulty for those who want to flee the people keeping

:02:01.:02:11.
:02:11.:02:11.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 81 seconds

:02:11.:03:03.

Inspectors were told not to serve his problems because it was

:03:03.:03:09.

embarrassing for the Government. Was it his conception when he set

:03:09.:03:19.
:03:19.:03:54.

Labour members took over. A pretty lively Prime Minister's

:03:54.:04:04.
:04:04.:04:05.

Questions come to an end. Ed Miliband asked about Egypt, it did

:04:05.:04:11.

not get us very far, but at least he did it. He then moved on to schools,

:04:11.:04:16.

drawing a contrast between the areas of the country short of primary

:04:16.:04:21.

school places than those which had 20 but were still adding the

:04:21.:04:26.

government support for free schools to these areas. -- those which had

:04:26.:04:29.

plenty. There were about eight mentions of Len McCluskey from the

:04:30.:04:34.

Prime Minister. That was interesting, he is not an MP, he is

:04:34.:04:39.

leader of the Unite union. But Mr Cameron has been reading his focus

:04:39.:04:44.

groups and he thinks this plays rather well. He managed to shoo

:04:44.:04:49.

homeland McCluskey into virtually every answer. The Speaker got upset

:04:49.:04:53.

because many of the questions were not about government policy or the

:04:53.:04:57.

Prime Minister. -- he managed to shoehorn Len McCluskey into

:04:57.:05:02.

virtually every answer. Michael Murray, an e-mail, said,

:05:02.:05:06.

will Mr Cameron ever give direct answers to direct questions? If he

:05:07.:05:12.

does not know the answers, why is he Prime Minister? Jeffrey says that Ed

:05:12.:05:16.

Miliband has showed why he cannot be trusted - opposing choice, freedom

:05:16.:05:22.

and free schools. One viewer said, surely it is time the Prime Minister

:05:22.:05:26.

thought about his constant vilifying of the trade unions. It is not

:05:26.:05:31.

right. Ian Whiteley says that he started of statesmanlike over Egypt,

:05:31.:05:37.

then it descended into a slanging match. Dave got in plenty of digs

:05:37.:05:41.

overland McCluskey and Unite but Ed skewered him up -- about bringing in

:05:41.:05:47.

Andy Coulston. Mr Winston says, the Prime Minister certainly hammered Ed

:05:47.:05:50.

Miliband and it is clear there is growing confidence on the Tory

:05:50.:05:56.

backbenchers, but Martin said that the preplanned mantra about Labour

:05:56.:06:01.

being controlled by the unions is hypocritical, taking early when you

:06:01.:06:04.

consider David Cameron taking the side of the press barons during the

:06:04.:06:09.

Leveson Inquiry and the influence of big business. Crispin in

:06:09.:06:13.

Chesterfield says that David Cameron keeps banging on about the unions,

:06:13.:06:16.

but who is pulling his strings when it comes to delaying new press

:06:16.:06:22.

regulation? He came out saying he did not like

:06:22.:06:25.

the press charter, which was interesting. Am I right in thinking

:06:25.:06:30.

that those around Mr Cameron in the Government at the moment and his

:06:30.:06:35.

political strategists think that Labour are on the defensive? They

:06:35.:06:39.

are on a roll. There is something striking happening, which you can

:06:40.:06:43.

see in Prime Minister's Question Time. Week after week, the Tory

:06:43.:06:47.

awkward squad, will to want to get rid of David Cameron, they were

:06:47.:06:53.

awkward in public, they would attack on it like or him. Now, two or three

:06:53.:06:57.

of him lobbed him a soft ball so that he could attack Labour and the

:06:57.:07:03.

trade unions. There are two separate things going on. Tory strategists

:07:03.:07:10.

believe that on the issue of the Unite union's influence, they can

:07:10.:07:14.

portray Ed Miliband as weak. The speaker would have pulled up at some

:07:14.:07:21.

months ago. He would have said, you are not supposed to ask questions in

:07:21.:07:24.

opposition, you are not supposed to this for partisan propaganda. Yet

:07:24.:07:28.

the Speaker let him get away with it. The second thing going on is a

:07:28.:07:31.

sense that the Tory family is briefly, at least, coming together.

:07:31.:07:38.

That is partly due to the Europe bill coming up later this week. On

:07:38.:07:41.

Friday, they can vote on the referendum. One thing I can tell

:07:41.:07:46.

you, which I don't think has been out there yet, is the Prime Minister

:07:46.:07:50.

is inviting you. Have you had your invite? He will have a barbecue for

:07:50.:07:55.

every current dividend MP inside Downing Street. There will be a

:07:55.:07:59.

family photo for every Conservative MP on the green bench of Downing

:07:59.:08:02.

Street. And a special meeting with the Prime Minister and strategists.

:08:02.:08:07.

In other words, they are using this bill to get everybody to Westminster

:08:07.:08:14.

and pull together, have a festival, a Tory party party! There will be a

:08:14.:08:21.

photograph on the green benches. Sounds like party management to me.

:08:21.:08:25.

So what? You might say. Forgive me if I have said this before, people

:08:25.:08:31.

forget that politics is a tribal sport, a team game. Whether morale

:08:31.:08:35.

is good or bad does not secure you an election, but, rightly or

:08:35.:08:43.

wrongly, Tory morale is high. that? If the recovery is under way,

:08:43.:08:49.

it is barely perceptible among most voters. The coalition has not been

:08:49.:08:55.

the happiest of parties in recent months or years. Why is Labour

:08:55.:09:00.

feeling on the defensive and the Tories have a spring in their step?

:09:00.:09:06.

I don't feel we are on the defensive. I think the tale about

:09:06.:09:10.

the barbecue on Friday night tells us what is really behind Friday 's

:09:10.:09:13.

European debate, and that is the Prime Minister trying to manage his

:09:13.:09:19.

own party. All prime ministers do that. Two it is an occasion for him

:09:19.:09:23.

to say that the Lib Dems are against this and we are for it, it is an

:09:23.:09:28.

occasion for him to try to unite his party around that one issue. On the

:09:28.:09:32.

substance of whether we should be in or out of Europe, there are deep

:09:32.:09:37.

divisions within the Tory party. I think it is a convenient device for

:09:37.:09:41.

him on Friday to try to unite his party. How long it will last, I

:09:41.:09:50.

don't know. We have been consistently ahead in the polls

:09:50.:09:56.

since the disastrous Budget of last year. White bag not by much. Now we

:09:56.:10:01.

have fixed term Parliaments, which I am in favour of, because I think it

:10:01.:10:04.

was a farce when there was always a question of, will the Prime Minister

:10:04.:10:09.

call an election or not? We have started the process of setting out

:10:09.:10:15.

our alternative, but we are doing it in a thoughtful and considered way.

:10:15.:10:20.

I think we are on the front foot. At the start of June, we had a very

:10:20.:10:26.

strong start to the Parliamentary session with speeches by Ed Balls

:10:26.:10:31.

and Ed Miliband. The latest polls have shown that your leaders down to

:10:31.:10:37.

5%. At this stage in the run-up to the 1997 election, you were points

:10:37.:10:45.

ahead. It was a very different time. Yes, Labour was well ahead!

:10:45.:10:49.

there was also an unpopular Conservative Government of many

:10:49.:10:53.

years. The Conservatives did not get the majority at the last election,

:10:53.:11:03.
:11:03.:11:03.

obviously we. Did not win either, so we are at a much closer pegging.

:11:03.:11:06.

Aren't they overplaying Len McCluskey? He mentioned him eight

:11:06.:11:12.

times, he drags him in. If you asked him about the weather, he would

:11:12.:11:16.

probably blame it, and also the bedroom tax, an Unite. Despite all

:11:16.:11:24.

the bankrolling of Labour, Len McCluskey and his union have been

:11:24.:11:27.

remarkably unsuccessful in getting their candidates chosen. That is the

:11:27.:11:35.

real story in the Labour Party. not sure that is true. I was elected

:11:35.:11:39.

by an open primary, and I find it deeply distasteful, and other unions

:11:39.:11:49.
:11:49.:11:50.

find this as well, that unions can be selecting Labour MPs. How many

:11:50.:11:54.

prospective candidates has Unite forced onto a Labour constituency?

:11:54.:12:01.

Two there was an example in Falkirk. But they did not win. And in

:12:01.:12:06.

Brighton a candidate strongly backed by the unions was selected.

:12:06.:12:11.

issue is how many are they on a roll? How many have Unite forced

:12:11.:12:17.

onto a Labour constituency? There is a clear trend that those candidate

:12:17.:12:23.

strongly backed by the unions tended to win, sometimes regardless of what

:12:23.:12:26.

is independent commentators thought of their performance. There is not

:12:26.:12:31.

evidence for that. I have been through an open Labour Party

:12:31.:12:39.

selection, I was the only woman on a shortlist of eight. There was a

:12:39.:12:43.

heavily union backed candidate and I beat them. Obviously there are trade

:12:43.:12:47.

union members in my own membership who sometimes favour the trade union

:12:47.:12:52.

backed candidate, and sometimes do not. But there are some people in Ed

:12:52.:12:55.

Miliband's own frontbench who are publicly expressing their run

:12:55.:13:01.

happiness. Jim Murphy said they, meaning Unite, can't bully and get

:13:01.:13:06.

their way within the Labour Party. There is a row taking place in

:13:06.:13:10.

private that has basically emerged in public. If you are political

:13:10.:13:14.

party, that is a gift when your opponents do that, when they row

:13:14.:13:20.

with each other. In my role as health minister I engage with the

:13:20.:13:24.

unions, and there is clearly disquiet from the unions about the

:13:24.:13:31.

strength and power of Unite in the Labour Party. What are the unions?

:13:31.:13:37.

When you see that, for example, Unison, which is more moderate, I

:13:37.:13:44.

believe, than Unite, have much less they say. The Labour Party as a

:13:44.:13:50.

party has traditionally had brought union backing. But now one union is

:13:50.:13:55.

beginning to buy votes in the process. Unison have complained

:13:55.:14:00.

about Unite being too powerful? I would not say they have direct

:14:00.:14:03.

complained, but you can pick up background disquiet from union

:14:03.:14:13.
:14:13.:14:17.

members. Tom Watson, a key figure in your party, a big union man. Has he

:14:17.:14:20.

got too much power when it comes to choosing candidates? Tom Watson is

:14:20.:14:25.

in the position he is in because he is a tremendous campaign in his own

:14:25.:14:30.

constituency. We are both in the Black Country. Has he too much

:14:30.:14:37.

power? In the 1990s, we introduced one member, one vote. We will do all

:14:37.:14:41.

we can to make sure that this is fair and transparent. I am

:14:41.:14:47.

determined, as a Labour MP, that the people up for election in 2015 have

:14:47.:14:51.

had the backing of their local party. It is really important that

:14:52.:14:55.

that happens. Ed Miliband has been very decisive when it came to

:14:55.:14:59.

Falkirk. The party stepped in and stop the process, froze the

:15:00.:15:04.

membership so that only members who joined from March of last year were

:15:04.:15:09.

eligible, and so we're getting a grip on the problems in Falkirk.

:15:09.:15:16.

Nick, a final word? We did not speak about primary school places, earlier

:15:16.:15:22.

this week, an all-party Commons committee said that over 250,000

:15:22.:15:26.

school places were needed by September 2014, and there was a

:15:26.:15:29.

danger that music rooms and libraries would be replaced by unit

:15:29.:15:34.

of the classrooms. Although it did not feel like it was Ed Miliband's

:15:34.:15:37.

day, I think the Labour leader has invested in a story he thinks would

:15:37.:15:41.

fit in with people 's life experiences in the next few months

:15:41.:15:45.

and weeks to say, when your child is in an overcrowded classroom or does

:15:46.:15:52.

not have a classroom, here is why. And all the places are to be

:15:52.:15:59.

available for September, when the school goes back. Thank you.

:15:59.:16:02.

Now, we could, if we wanted to, head to the supermarket at three o'clock

:16:03.:16:06.

on a Sunday afternoon. But could we get an appointment to see our GP

:16:07.:16:09.

then, or have a routine NHS operation on our knee? Probably not.

:16:09.:16:12.

But all this could be about to change under plans by Health

:16:13.:16:16.

Secretary Jeremy Hunt to make care in NHS England truly 24/7. In fact,

:16:16.:16:18.

data shows that mortality rates actually increase during

:16:18.:16:21.

out-of-hours provision. But doctors say the proposals won't work in a

:16:21.:16:25.

service already overstretched. Former doctor and author of NHS SOS

:16:25.:16:35.
:16:35.:16:56.

I was a hospital doctor of the 37 years. I advise the Government on

:16:56.:17:00.

the care of elderly people. Nothing would appease me more than being

:17:00.:17:10.
:17:10.:17:10.

able to offer comprehensive care in the NHS, 247. Surgeries will be

:17:10.:17:14.

open seven days a week so patients could see their doctors without

:17:14.:17:19.

missing work. In NHS hospitals, the care on a Sunday night would be

:17:19.:17:23.

just as good as the care on a Wednesday morning. It wouldn't only

:17:23.:17:28.

be patient centred, but staff centred. It would make it easy to

:17:28.:17:32.

deliver promptly and safely, everything we want for our patients.

:17:32.:17:37.

But it would be irresponsible to support Jeremy Hunt's call for a

:17:37.:17:47.
:17:47.:17:53.

247 Tesco style service at present. Why? The NHS is facing �20 billion

:17:53.:17:58.

worth of cuts, massive staff reductions, closure of A&E and

:17:58.:18:05.

closure of some hospitals. All of this in the context of the most

:18:05.:18:09.

disruptive reorganisation in its history. No wonder services are

:18:09.:18:14.

overstretched. Worse still, resources will become more scarce

:18:14.:18:19.

as Government plans for re privatisation unfolds. There will

:18:19.:18:29.

be tendering process has overseen by lawyers, and money diverted into

:18:29.:18:33.

profits for multi- millionaire entrepreneurs. Any extension of

:18:33.:18:38.

services, some think the vast majority of doctors support, will

:18:38.:18:43.

mean endangering what is currently on offer. In other words, upgrading

:18:43.:18:47.

services at the weekend may mean downgrading services during the

:18:47.:18:57.
:18:57.:19:01.

week. Doctoring is a more serious And Professor Raymond Tallis joins

:19:01.:19:07.

us now. I think everybody would agree that doctoring is more

:19:07.:19:12.

complicated than shopping. But also there is a perception that doctors

:19:12.:19:18.

don't want to work out of hours and the weekends? I began a 104 hour

:19:18.:19:24.

week when I started as a junior doctor. When I finished I was

:19:24.:19:29.

working 70 hours a week when I finished. It was normal when I

:19:29.:19:35.

retired to become a consultant on call. That there was no question of

:19:35.:19:40.

not doing out of hours care. Nevermind one continuing

:19:41.:19:44.

preoccupation of patience when you are not being paid for it. His it

:19:44.:19:49.

to demand would looking at? You put it down to the fact there were no

:19:49.:19:53.

resources. Let's say the resources were there, would it be reasonable

:19:53.:20:00.

for people to expect a 24 hour a day service in terms of GPs and

:20:00.:20:04.

hospital? It's would be wonderful. When I was a doctor in hospital, it

:20:04.:20:08.

was dreadful on Sunday when you were trying to solve a complex

:20:08.:20:12.

problem because you did not have a support service. When you were

:20:13.:20:18.

trying to communicate with primary care there wasn't the support at

:20:18.:20:22.

the weekend. As I have indicated, it would be fantastically staff

:20:22.:20:26.

centres. We would be far less concerned, but it requires an

:20:26.:20:31.

enormous amount of resources at a time when resources are being

:20:31.:20:36.

squandered a by the Coalition. more money was put into the NHS or

:20:36.:20:39.

the resources were spent more wisely you could have a more even

:20:39.:20:45.

service spread across seven days? �12.7 billion will be put into the

:20:45.:20:50.

NHS during this Parliament. But if you look at the root causes, the

:20:50.:20:59.

majority of the NHS workforce are on a 24 hour basis. There is the

:20:59.:21:02.

basis of expanding GP hours and consultant hours. Because the

:21:02.:21:12.

previous contract could GP now earns �108,000. There is a 24%

:21:12.:21:15.

increase in pay given to consultants by the previous

:21:15.:21:19.

Government. Would you like to change that? They were still

:21:19.:21:24.

allowed to opt out of weekends and evenings. Part of this is what

:21:24.:21:32.

contract you put in place. Doctors are well remunerated... And they

:21:32.:21:37.

should work out-of-hours and weekends? Doctors shouldn't just do

:21:37.:21:42.

on-call work at that time, but more routine work. At night and the

:21:42.:21:47.

weekends, the mortality rate is higher. When you are earning

:21:47.:21:52.

�108,000 on average, and you are starting a salary as a consultant

:21:52.:21:58.

on 84,000... What are you blaming the fact you're 82% more likely to

:21:58.:22:03.

die in the NHS when you have an operation on a Sunday compared to a

:22:03.:22:06.

Monday? Are you saying there are enough resources, but doctors are

:22:06.:22:11.

not good enough at the weekend? am not saying that. But some were

:22:11.:22:16.

there is a problem. The contracts knitters he did by the previous

:22:16.:22:21.

Government allowed doctors to opt out of weekend care. So consultant

:22:21.:22:26.

care, is safer Kerr and better. That is something we need to see

:22:26.:22:30.

more of. Not just during the week, but in the evenings and weekends.

:22:31.:22:37.

Good patient care, professionals acting with professionalism. What

:22:37.:22:42.

do say to that? First of all he is confusing the situation with

:22:42.:22:46.

primary care and the situations with hospitals. All hospital

:22:46.:22:53.

consultants provide cover over weekends on a shift basis. It is

:22:53.:22:57.

not actually being at a hospital delivering care, it is being

:22:57.:23:02.

provided by on-call cover which is different to providing routine,

:23:02.:23:08.

daytime care. The other thing is, there is only a certain number of

:23:08.:23:13.

hours an individual doctor can work. It is inappropriate for a doctor to

:23:13.:23:19.

work a 100 our week, as I did. We need more doctors. You cannot

:23:19.:23:26.

spread one doctor over 168 hours in a week. We are can -- recruiting

:23:26.:23:32.

more consultants. The previous Government recognised that

:23:32.:23:36.

consultant care is better. We need to have more consultants working at

:23:36.:23:41.

weekends and out of hours. It is also the case we need a GPS system

:23:41.:23:45.

that is not necessarily looking at daytime care, but providing care in

:23:45.:23:50.

the evenings and weekends to keep patients more out of the A&E when

:23:50.:23:55.

they don't need to be there. are the Government, make it happen.

:23:55.:23:59.

We need to revisit the contracts we inherited from the previous

:23:59.:24:06.

Government. Some of these contracts come round in a ten-year sample.

:24:06.:24:12.

Hackney, idealistic GPs wanted to clawback the opt-out from providing

:24:12.:24:17.

out-of-hours services. The existing private provider was awful. The

:24:17.:24:20.

public and the doctors agreed with that. They tried to buy it out and

:24:20.:24:24.

they were prevented from doing so. By the rules laid down by the

:24:24.:24:28.

previous Government. Now yesterday we had a bit of a

:24:28.:24:32.

spat on our programme - which we always enjoy. The Labour MP, Simon

:24:32.:24:34.

Danczuk, locked horns with The Independent's Owen Jones over the

:24:34.:24:37.

question of Jobs Seekers Allowance and whether there should be a

:24:37.:24:40.

seven-day waiting period. Owen Jones attacked the proposal and

:24:40.:24:49.

well a bit of old-fashioned class warfare ensued. Take a look at this.

:24:49.:24:54.

You cannot just bring everybody together. You have an idealistic

:24:54.:25:00.

view of the world. You sound like a 1980s alternative comedian. It is

:25:00.:25:04.

hilarious in many respects, but taking on the mantle of Ben Elton

:25:04.:25:10.

does not help anybody in politics. You sound like a Tory politician.

:25:10.:25:16.

The grotesque sight of the Labour MP scuttling around TV studios to

:25:16.:25:24.

back Tory attacks on some of the poorest of society. The priority

:25:24.:25:30.

has to be creating jobs, creating wealth.

:25:30.:25:33.

Well that ding-dong caused a Twitter storm and led the Daily

:25:33.:25:36.

Telegraph blogger, Dan Hodges, to write that the Labour Party needs

:25:36.:25:39.

more of this left-wing rebuttal and he accused the Labour leadership of

:25:39.:25:49.
:25:49.:25:49.

being in thrall to Owen Jones. Dan Hodges joins us now. And are we

:25:49.:25:54.

saying, the word has got out from Ed Miliband's headquarters that

:25:54.:26:00.

Owen-Jones is not to be touched? Owen-Jones is a made man within the

:26:00.:26:08.

Labour Party. A Mafia expression? It is a Mafia expression. It has

:26:08.:26:13.

been leave Owen alone. It is an open secret that Ed Miliband and

:26:13.:26:19.

his party have been courting going for several months. Why is that?He

:26:19.:26:24.

is influential and has his newspaper column, he is influential

:26:24.:26:29.

in terms of his liaison with the unions, think tank he is

:26:29.:26:36.

established with. And also the direct action movement that Labour

:26:36.:26:42.

wants to make common cause with. The other element is, the 35%

:26:42.:26:46.

strategy, Ed Miliband is trying to build a new Coalition around those

:26:46.:26:51.

who are disaffected with the Labour Party around the Iraq war, and

:26:51.:26:55.

young and first-time voters. There is a sense Irwin is a spokesperson

:26:55.:27:02.

for that group. Owen-Jones replied to your comments, saying it is the

:27:02.:27:07.

most riveting and personal fantasy he has ever read. I don't want to

:27:07.:27:13.

go into his personal fantasies, certainly not before the watershed!

:27:13.:27:18.

Would you like to disprove Dan Hodges theory by attacking a Wynne-

:27:18.:27:24.

Jones on air? This is total rubbish. Ed Miliband has not put out an

:27:24.:27:28.

instruction to shadow ministers not to have a go at him. I would be

:27:28.:27:33.

happy to criticise Owen if the occasion arises. And Simon is a

:27:33.:27:37.

Labour Member of Parliament, he speaks for the Labour Party. Not

:27:37.:27:47.
:27:47.:27:48.

Owen. So Simon was right, and I was was wrong? -- Owen. Yes.It is

:27:48.:27:55.

falling apart. The word is out now, attack it Owen. They will all be

:27:55.:28:05.
:28:05.:28:09.

Time to put you out of your misery with the answer to the Guess the

:28:09.:28:19.
:28:19.:28:20.

Year competition. The answer was 1942. Why should they have found

:28:20.:28:26.

out it was 1942? The Al Alan Main, the huge battle

:28:26.:28:30.

on the North African desert, the turning-point of the war. The first

:28:30.:28:35.

British victory, actually. Emma, please press the button to reveal

:28:35.:28:45.
:28:45.:28:47.

There is one Cup on eBay at the moment selling for �93, but it is

:28:47.:28:51.

the cancer. OK that's all for today. Thanks to

:28:51.:28:54.

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn are joined by health minister Dr Dan Poulter and shadow Europe minister Emma Reynolds for Prime Minister's Questions. Plus, all the big political stories of the day - including news of government plans to restrict access for foreigners to the NHS. The Guess the Year competition closes at 12.30pm during the live broadcast of this programme.


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