21/10/2013 Daily Politics

Good afternoon and welcome to the Daily Politics. The Government has

reached an agreement with French energy giant EDF and a consortium

that includes Chinese investors to build Britain's first new nuclear

power plant in a generation. The site at Hinkley Point in Somerset

will provide around 7% of the country's electricity. David Cameron

says the deal will help shift the UK away from fossil fuels and towards

low carbon power. He says it will lead to cheaper bills for

consumers, but critics warn that households could end up paying over

the odds for decades. Who knows what the Liberal Democrats

think about free schools? We are not sure, but we will be trying to get

to the bottom of it. This belongs to the city, not the council. Directly

elected mayors were supposed to be at the heart of the Government's

localism agenda, but the idea has never caught on. We'll be asking one

of the country's Q why. And it could be Glovers off between

these two later as the Conservatives launched an attack campaign against

Labour on the economy. All that in the next hour, and with

us for the first half of the programme today is a man who puts

Bristol first, and that is because he is the city's mayor, George

Ferguson, welcome to the programme. He is also famous for being an

architect, running a restaurant and a brewery, and more importantly for

wearing bright red trousers, which we are pleased to say he is sporting

today. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Now, first this morning,

let's talk about house prices, because in London they have soared

by more than 10% in a month, fuelling fresh fears of a housing

bubble, but the picture is not the same in other parts of the country.

Wales and the West Midlands saw prices for last month, so what is

the picture in the West Country, George? Much more sensible. I think

London has overheated, it is absolutely bonkers. You have got

four borrowers with average prices over 1 million. This is just dream

and, and it just makes it more unaffordable for those who have

struggled to find accommodation at all. But prices have risen in

Bristol steadily over the last ten years, haven't they? Yes, steadily,

and my big worry is that this overheating by London will then

spread out, and we have a big affordability gap in Bristol as it

is. We need to build, and I am absolutely determined that we

multiply the amount of affordable housing that we are building, which

is at a disgracefully low level, by many times, hopefully by ten times.

What are you doing to help that happen? As an architect, you know

something about the building trade and how houses go from start to

finish, why haven't more been built in Bristol? I think because we

have... At affordable housing has been based on the back, and in a

recession that is a tricky thing, and all the house builders try to

get out of their affordable housing requirement. So I think we have got

to be much cleverer about it, and there is no silver bullet. We have

to look at every single means, so I am looking at every possible means,

and I will be making an announcement shortly about how we up our game and

produce affordable housing right across the range, both to buy and to

rent. What about the Help To Buy scheme? Is it a good idea, or will

it fuelled the bubble you have talked about in London? I think it

is fuelling the bubble, and I think it should be reviewed. I mean,

obviously, we have got to help people who cannot afford to buy, but

this form of help to buy is the wrong way. I think it is boosting

inflation in the house prices, and that is bad for us all in the long

run. It may give people a good feel when they are sitting on a house,

but what can you do with it? By another? I will tell you what you

can do with it in London, come and buy a house for around half the

price in Bristol. We will leave at there, it is time for a little quiz.

The question for today is specifically, for our guest of the

day, George, the directly elected Mayor of Bristol. But our many

cities outside London have elected mayors? Is it 15, 25 or 50? George

will hopefully give us the correct answer in about 25 minutes. So the

UK is getting its first new nuclear power plant for a generation. After

more than a year of negotiations with France's EDF energy, the

Government today gave the go-ahead for the coming to build the new

Hinkley Point C plant in Somerset. This is the first new nuclear power

station since the construction of Sizewell B began in Suffolk in 1988.

It is capable of producing 3% of the UK's entire electors of the UK's

entire liquidity needs. Hinkley Point is being built by a consortium

led by France's EDF Energy. Two Chinese companies, China National

Nuclear Corporation and China National Nuclear Corporation, will

be minority shareholders in the project. It is expected to cost ?16

billion to build, but it is the first new UK power station that is

not being paid for by the taxpayer. It is expected to be operational by

2023. The Government has agreed to pay ?92.50 for every megawatt hour

of energy that Hinkley C generates. That is almost twice the current

wholesale cost of electors are the. The plant is expected to operate for

60 years, and the entire operation will produce 7% of the UK's total

energy needs. This is what the Prime Minister had to say about the

announcement this morning. This is a very big day for our country, the

first time we have built a new nuclear power station for a very

long time in our country. Other governments have promised it, they

failed to deliver it, but we have a long-term economic plan for Britain

and we are delivering, including this vital nuclear power station

which we hope will be the first of several other power stations,

kick-starting the industry, providing thousands of jobs and

providing long-term safe and secure supplies of electricity for

individual. David Cameron there. Ed Miliband, perhaps unsurprisingly,

was not so welcoming of the news. We will scrutinise these proposals, but

we are in the ridiculous position today where we have got the Prime

Minister, who says that he can fix prices 35 years ahead for the energy

can, but he cannot freeze prices now for the consumer. No wonder we have

got a cost of living crisis in this country. Earlier I spoke to

southwest business correspondent Dave Carvey, who is at Hinkley Point

in Somerset, and I began by asking how the announcement had gone down

locally. Well, they are no strangers to nuclear power here on the West

Somerset coastline. This morning hundreds of workers streamed into

what they called Hinkley B, and they had to fight their way through the

politicians and media circus that has been camped out since this

morning. This is what they call Hinkley A, imaginatively named, the

one that was switched on a 19 city five, and it has now been

decommissioned. Hinkley C will be down the way a bit, about half a

mile down there, ?16 billion construction project, and in this

part of the world that means a lot of jobs, because not only is it the

biggest building site in the country, think Olympic Park and half

as much again, a huge deal for British construction and indeed for

local people. Right at the tiny level, there is a little company in

April -ish near here that is staging the letters EDF into blue overalls

that everyone of the 5000 workers who work here will have to wear. So

huge money, huge jobs. If you live locally and you are not in that kind

of business, great big trucks lumbering past your door. It sounds

like a massive project, as you say. The other side of the coin are

bills. Are people confident that this will actually, at some point in

the future, lower their bills or not Juma well, it is more about whether

it goes up less than it might have done otherwise. It is horrible,

isn't it? We heard one of the energy, is putting up their bills

right now. This is all about what happens in ten years. The

electricity that is generated here will not come on stream until 2023

or 2024, and what has never been done before is building one of these

vast power stations with private money. That one was built by the

British Government, the ones that you have seen in China that George

Osborne was looking at last week, they are built and paid for by the

Chinese government. The French pay for their own. Here we have a French

company, EDF, and Chinese investors taking a risk, putting up the cash.

To do that, as we know, they have been guaranteed this flat price, if

you like a guaranteed fixed rate mortgage. That means that that will

be twice the current wholesale price. I'm afraid what that tells

you, well, ministers believe that within 15 or 20 years, actually

twice today's prices will look like a bit of a bargain. I will tell you

what, it is really rainy down here, the son did come out briefly, and a

little while ago there was a rainbow over that nuclear power station,

which had us wondering where the crock of gold is and who has got

their hands on it. I will let you go and look for it!

With us now is Shadow Energy Minister Tom Greatrex and Angela

Knight from Energy UK, welcome to you both. Tom Greatrex, why did

Labour not build a single new nuclear power station during 13

years in government? We have got a situation where we need to renew the

generation capacity. Labour restarted the process of making

nuclear power acceptable again, assessing... You prevaricate it,

Labour was not in favour for quite a long time. Eventually there was

support for a new generation, but time was wasted. We very clearly set

a direction, and Ed Miliband did that when he was Energy Secretary,

about renewing the supplies, how we do it in the best low carb way

possible, how we get the mix of secure, diverse supplies. So you

back this? I support new nuclear being part of the generation mix.

This deal, we have to look at the specifics and some of the detail. We

will have to scrutinise that very carefully. In broad terms, we

supported the Energy Bill and the contracts which are the key

mechanism which underpin the investment, and we support the 2020

D Cobb and Isaac target to move us in the right direction to having a

low carbon energy mix. But there are some details in this about which we

need to be very clear in terms of jobs, the value of the jobs, the

safeguards, and in relation to that what happens if there are cost and

runs, as well as overruns, thinking in construction more widely as well.

There is more detail to get into, so I cannot give carte blanche on this,

but I can say that we do support new nuclear being part of the energy mix

for the long-term future. Is it a good deal for the taxpayer? What is

important about this is if we choose as a country not to use nuclear, we

are in a position where we are further exposed to gas. Angela's

members have said over the last few weeks what a big impact that has

been inflation to be wholesale prices increasing, but if we end up

in a situation where we are overreliant on one source of fuel,

that is not a very sensible place to be. So for reasons of diversity and

energy security, it is good to have new nuclear. That is the reality,

isn't it? Do you back this deal? Yes, very much so. A lot of

information has been put out today. Tom is correct that we need to see a

lot more about it, and I'm sure EDF are going to be doing that, but they

are talking about just under 60% of the burden of UK generators,

something like 25... Something like 20, 20 5000 jobs, 900 apprentices.

This is big, this is a huge project, both construction project

and in terms of starting something which, I would agree, should have

been done before, and that is rebuilding some of our ageing power

stations. Because we do need a good energy mix, and we need to get on

with it. Energy security, are you comfortable with the Chinese being

the investors along with the French? We are going to be reliant on

foreign powers, if you like. Well, using investment from different

parts of the world is now a fact of life. We as a country invested

assets in other people's countries as well, so it is nothing new, you

know, that international is comes into play in the investment world.

In fact, that has been going on for a long time, but this is the start

of a programme, not the end. We have got not just other nuclear power

stations that will need building, but other types of power generation

as well. I expect the investment will come from lots of different

places, including in the UK. Do you welcome this and the jobs it will

bring your Regent EU. I welcome the jobs it will bring. I think it is a

massive distraction from what we should be concentrating on. We

should be concentrating on reducing our electricity needs, above all

else. Yes. We should be looking at the most environmentally friendly

ways of generating power. And if you build a nuclear power station, if a

pyramid has been a nuclear power station in ancient Egypt, we would

still be dealing with the waste problem. And I think we need to look

at the distraction, because we should be investing all that ?16

billion into making sure we reduce our needs and look at renewables.

And we should be thinking about what we are leaving future generations,

so I am not a fan. Can the country afford not to have nuclear power,

when you look at the percentage that it provides compared to renewables?

Can you really said there and say, I will take a gamble and throw our

resources into renewables? Even France is reducing, Germany is

eliminating it, Italy is eliminating it. Germany is increasing their

reliance on fossil fuels as a result. That is in the short-term,

and in the long term they will be concentrating on energy reduction

and on renewables, and doing so very effectively. What do you say about

the waste issue and safety? That has always been one of the problems, but

many nuclear supporters will say it has been exaggerated over the past

few years. Can I just respond to be point before, just quickly in

relation to demand reduction and using energy more efficiently? Yes,

these things are not mutually exclusive, we have got a real issue

coming up, and if you could get low carbon generation from renewables in

the way that was completely predictable and reliable in the same

way that you can in terms of baseload from nuclear, it might be

different. We need a mixture of all It is a wonderful opportunity for

the UK. We are selling ourselves short by allowing the French and

the Chinese investors, who will make 10% out of this, to make the

profits that should be made here with our own developing industries.

Bristol is concentrating on the energy industries. We are trying to

make the most of the River Severn estuaries. Let's look at that

rather than thinking we will put 16 billion into a great big solution.

We need to look at everything. What does not get enough attention is,

can we use less energy - whether it is power up or gas? The whole

question about insulating homes is not sexy but it does need that the

tension. I agree a real focus has to take place on that. -- that

attention. Isn't that a distraction from the fact energy companies keep

pushing up their bills? The announcement by for will do nothing

in improving the trust of the public. -- by NPower. What they had

done and other energy companies are doing is being much more

transparent about the reasons why. Most of the increases are passed

through. There is a real point that what has to happen much better with

bills is there has to be clarity and transparency, so people

understand where it is coming from. It may not be enough comfort to say

prices are going up still. I think it is likely that prices will go up

because the costing networks and distribution is increasing because

investment is going in. The cost of various government policies is

increasing because that is what is happening. I have no idea what is

happening on the whole sum market but it is an upwards trend. --

wholesale market. There will be emphasis on use reduction and

insulation. There are foreign powers like the Chinese who will to

some degree be in control. Let's go back to the strike price and how

much it will cost. They have agreed a price of 92 pounds 50. That is

almost twice the current wholesale cost of electricity. It does vary.

It is still high. It is high. Do you packet? What is the

alternative? -- back it. It is about expanding gas capacity. You

are then reliant on the wholesale price of gas. If you look at the

trajectory, it is very dangerous to do - putting yourself in a position

where you are overly reliant on one fuel. With the new technologies and

other developing points, one reason we have to put money into

infrastructure, is to be a will to cope with diverse forms of

regeneration. -- be able to cope. One thing many of our viewers

complained about Of The Green levies, which are part of the bill.

Encouraging alternative forms of generation and renewables is

absolutely valid. That is the way they have built it up in Germany.

It is affordable. We are starting our own electricity company in

power - our own energy company in Bristol - to be more responsible

for keeping our own lights on. That is the way things should go. The

more we get local generation, the safer we will be. The energy

companies up a -- opposed to a price freeze. We're talking about

fixing prices for 35 years. That is as far as the investor is concerned

and the whole cell price is concerned. -- wholesale price. You

get lots of actions which take place which are not ones one would

want to do. It is not sustainable and it puts investors off. You end

up with the customer being worse off. It is better to have a

properly working, efficient market, and a competitive one with more

energy companies coming in. It has to be really brief. This is exactly

why the need to reset the retail market so it is clear, transparent

and fair. -- weak-kneed. I am going to have to stop it there. Thank you

very much. The Government thought cities like Birmingham Bristol and

Liverpool might like an elected Mayor and asked them in May 2012 if

they would. Only Bristol said yes, partly, apparently, because its

city council had often been seen as rather stagnant in getting stuff

done. So, what does our guest of the day do as Mayor of Bristol and

who exactly is he? Here's Giles, who's been following George for a

documentary for Radio 4. In a few weeks, Bristol will have had George

Fergusson, the man in a red trousers, as mayor with executive

powers for a year. Not that he was a stranger to the city before the

idea of a directly elected mayor was suggested. UK-wide architect,

City developer and urban planner, he lived and breathed Bristol four

years, as student, Councillor and advocate for the area. He designed

a nationally acclaimed theatre. Why Bristol was the only city to say

yes to an elected mayor in May, 2012, has something to do with the

feeling that it's city council had rather stagnated in getting stuff

done. Ferguson, if he won, might break that mould. He did win and

polled 37,000 votes. He was sworn in at the Pru now passenger shed,

Temple Meads, in 2012. It is a challenge the political parties to

wish their Challenger got the job. His motives and delivery say he

likes the limelight with Iraq changing anything. He has, on

occasion, struggled with political nuances of dealing with awkward

members of the public. It is about listening to local people. I do.

Listen to your council. Not everyone liked his car-free Bristol.

It depended who you were. Bristolians will tend to show you

they are not sure if the idea of a mare has worked and if George can

deliver. Three with three years to go, time will tell. -- with three

years. It is an amazing job. There are some very tough decisions. I

expected the unexpected. I think the politics has been interesting.

I now have a Cabinet with four parties represented. I get on

really well with them. You can disagree with me as publicly as you

like. It is artificial having Cabinets that disagree and they

tend not to - not in a way that is damaging. I have a pool of 70

councillors from which to choose the Cabinet. Why do you think the

idea has not caught on? People probably perceived it as adding

cost and a layer of government. It is absolutely the reverse. The

problem is, we have only gone halfway. We have overlaid and old

system with a new system. We need a radical change in the constitution

to make sure this works. A city the size of Bristol would have about a

dozen councillors. We have 70 and over 600 minuted to committee

meetings a year. We are Bob -- bogged down in government. What

have you done to change people's lives? I have changed the mood.

There was real cynicism and no recognition of leadership. I walk

around the city and people recognise they have someone who is

a real champion of the city. I am looking at multiplying the

provision of affordable housing by 10 and looking at how we deal with

transport in order to improve air quality, which is vitally important.

I am looking at how we close the life expectancy gap, which is

almost 10 years where you live. I am looking at all those big social

issues. I may have spent my life dealing with buildings. What is

more important is creating good communities. I am looking at

devolving as much power as possible to the neighbourhood, which is

vitally important. You might be against the idea of losing any

power? As the mayor, I have more power than any city leader normally

has. The vital balance of that is to share it with the neighbourhoods

and the communities within the city. Bristol is the best city to live in

the UK behind London, and Manchester it. Is that down to you?

No. I have been going around saying we are the best city in the UK and

now it is really good to have it endorsed. It is a brilliant city to

live them. We have an enormous range of skills. I am employing

people to of overheated London and come and play in Bristol. Chief

cheerleader for Bristol! Just time to find that the answer to our

careers. How many cities outside London had directly elected mayors?

A) 15. B) 25. C) 50. Of the core cities and London, it is only three.

15 otherwise. It has not worked as a policy. I think it is down to us

to prove it does work. I think, in 10 years' time, you will have

cities crying out for having a mayor. You'll probably have a more

informed decision-making process as a result of it. Better to be

independent? Far better. You have got a liberal background, having

you? I think to a certain extent politics has spoilt local

government. I put Bristol first and that was my only ticket and people

absolutely relate to that. Thank you for being our guest of the day.

So time now to look at what's on the political agenda this week.

Tomorrow, the director general of the BBC, Tony Hall, and Lord Patten,

the chair of the BBC Trust, appear in front of the Culture Media and

Sports Committee to talk about the BBC annual report. On Wednesday,

Prince George is christened and, of course, there is PMQS. Also on

Wednesday the plebgate saga returns to the Commons because the Police

Federation, IPPC and Chief Constables are in front of the Home

Affairs Select Committee. Thursday sees the Dunfermline by-election to

the Scottish Parliament. And Friday sees the latest GDP figures. Will

we beat the last quarter rise of 0.7%? Joining us now are Melissa

Kite, from the Spectator and Torcuil Crichton from the Daily

Record. Welcome to both of you. The cast list of the IPCC, the Police

Federation and chief constables is all in front of the home affairs

select committee. The select committees in Parliament are the

new rock-and-roll. That is where all the drama happened. These three

Police chief officers came out and said they refused to say what he

did say it at the gates of Downing Street over a year ago now to the

police constables. Unfortunately, they were taped and their account

of the meeting contradicted that of Andrew Mitchell. Also, the IPCC

keeps an eye on the police. It says there is a case of misconduct and

the police officer should have been referred for misconduct. It is a

bit of a muddle. There is heavyweight support for an Drew

Mitchell in the political village. You have Jack Straw coming in,

David Davis coming in. The Home Secretary is criticising the police.

It will go before the home affairs committee on Wednesday.

reappointed to the government. He always protested his innocence, and

those who knew him best said that this was most unlike him and that

they didn't believe him. So I would hope that David Cameron would now

give the man a job back. But in terms of the police, this goes to

the heart of whether the public can trust the police, so I think, if

these are a few rogue officers, it would be better if they lost their

jobs and we moved on. Let's look at the economy, how gung ho is George

Osborne going to be ahead of and on the day of the race of those GDP

figures for quarter three? The big action is at the end of the week,

isn't it? Ahead of that, we have had the big announcement today on

nuclear power, big potatoes, ?15 billion deal to keep the lights on

for the next 30 years, and a lot of jobs for British companies, as that

plant was built. Tomorrow, Danny Alexander will be rolling out ?17

billion of loan guarantees for big infrastructure projects, how many

will be in his constituency, people will ask, not many! And again on

Thursday, the Prime Minister, Cameron will be in the EU in

Brussels, batting to get rid of radiation which he says is holding

businesses back, holding back growth. -- regulation. And on

Friday, Osborne will be cock-a-hoop if the figures are up, giving them a

glimmer of light for 2015, when he sees the economy is healing, stick

with us, the other guys are always looking back over their shoulder.

Nobody is looking back, everybody is looking forward now. Do you think

there is a risk of an looking to confident to Mack yes, I do, because

if you are doing your weekly shop or pay your ass Bill, the recovery does

not look like it is helping you, so the coalition can say what it is

doing on the tin, that is good, but now he needs to show ordinary

families that the recovery is delivering something for them.

Minister, just before we go, squeals of this loyalty over Nick Clegg's

departure from government policy on free schools, will this help or hurt

him? It is difficult, isn't it, because his own Minister, David

Laws, is against him on this? There is a Lib Dem split, which is not

very helpful. I think the strategy obviously is is that he is bound to

get some different see Asian from the Tories. -- differentiation. He

has to show how he is different from David Cameron, while still saying,

we have done well in the coalition. I think his page is to say to the

electorate, look, this coalition has worked, but it has worked because we

have made it work. It is the Lib Dems in the coalition who are

reining in the Tories, making sure that some of their wilder ideas

don't get out of hand, saying that he is moderating this free schools

policy, and that is how he will portray what he is doing in the

coalition to sort of cell and softer voters. Briefly, Torcuil. He is not

moderating at all, he is opposed to these free schools, but Michael Gove

is in charge of education policy, and the Government is in favour of

free schools. Thank you to both of you. Joining me

for the last half hour are three Lady Peers of the realm, we have

Labour's Jan Royall, shadow leader of the Lloyds, Susan Kramer for the

Liberal Democrats, recently appointed as Transport Minister, and

Peta Buscombe of the Conservatives. No shouting now, what is the Lib Dem

policy on free schools? This is Skills Minister David Laws attacking

Labour for shifting their position on free schools last Thursday. I

think what will unnerve many free schools across the country is the

speed with which the shadow Secretary of State has stood on his

head Labour policy on free schools which will undermine confidence of

those many schools across the country that are doing a fantastic

and innovative job, and I just wrote attention to the fact that the

proportion of free schools that are outstanding and good is higher than

the rest of the school population, even though many of them have only

been existence for two years. David Laws also defended the ability of

unqualified teachers to do a good job. But yesterday, talking on Sky

TV, Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg seemed to disagree. As we move towards a

world in which more and more schools, in our system, have greater

freedoms to decide things for themselves, do we at the same time

as them to respect certain basic quality standards so that parents,

mothers and fathers up and down the country, regardless of where their

son or daughter goes to school, can be reassured their children are

going to be taught by qualified teachers, are going to be taught the

National Curriculum, just like any other school, and are going to

respect the quality and standards for food, for instance, which the

Department for Education has recently endorsed? Two Liberal

Democrats, two different views. Susan Kramer, can you tell us what

Lib Dem policy is on free schools? I think you have got nicked

articulating what will likely be in our manifesto, where we are going

with this. David plays a ministerial role, and he's playing that role

entirely appropriately in terms of making government policy work as

effectively as possible. It is part of the way coalition works. It is

not part of the historical way in which, if you like, British parties

have managed, but it is clearly... We are in a new area... In a

ministerial group, within a ministerial group, you know, you

support and defend the line from the department, I think that is

absolutely right and the only way to make government work effectively,

but as we have nicked in his dual role of both party leader and Deputy

Prime Minister, I think it is right that he articulates the very real

concerns of parents and I think some very real concerns. Actions speak

louder than words, and when the issue was raised in the education

bill in the House of Lords, Labour tabled an amendment which would

ensure that everyone teaching in a preschool was qualified. Not one Lib

Dem rebelled, even Baroness Kramer on my left, she voted in favour of

the policy. It is not at all unreasonable to watch a programme

when it goes into place, to try and learn... To try and learn from the

experience of what you see... I would expect Nick... Is collective

responsibility dead? I would expect him to be able to do that. I would

love to have the answer, is collective responsibility, one of

the core principles of government, is it dead? I have heard many

conservatives, quite rightly, complain about what they think are

Liberal Democrat aspects of policy, and I do not think that is an

understood... Ministers have sat on their hands during boats in the

House of Lords, Government votes. -- votes. I think quite rightly,

ministers have worked with their department and the government, but

Nick plays a jewel role, and I think that is essential. Susan Kramer,

David Laws, I should think, is upset, because this is a policy that

he not only put forward, but believes in, unlike Nick Clegg, who

voted for it but does not believe in it. What is the Lib Dem position on

unqualified teachers? Which is right, which do you support? I

listen to make in terms of forward policy, and I think that is entirely

appropriate. I have no problem... I think most people in the public can

work with this. There is a policy that has been decide for government,

David is charged with making sure that it is effective as possible,

and he is a big guy who can defend his particular positions. Nick Clegg

is articulating a way forward on behalf of the country. I do not have

a problem with that, it is an inside the Beltway kind of problem. Except

people might want to know what the Lib Dem policy is! Thousands of

children are now at free schools with unqualified teachers, including

the issue of a 27-year-old head of a school owned by Lord Nash, and that

particular head had no qualifications. He pays for it.

Let's come to the issue of unqualified teachers - is there a

problem there? No, there's not. Nick Clegg is using this to grandstand,

he wants to sound big and strong in front of his party. He wants to keep

his job. Tories are upset because he is being 2-faced about this. He went

to one of the most expensive schools in the country, Westminster, he

probably had unqualified teachers who were probably brilliant. What

the Conservative Party, my party, are keen on is having the best for

the job, and overall most teachers are fully qualified in the

traditional sense. But there are some who are fully qualified when

they go in, and there are others who go through their training... In

terms of your education, you were educated at St Paul's, where there

may have been unqualified teachers, because that is allowed in the

private school system. You do not support that now. It is hard to

twist and unravel what might have been generational. I certainly had

some brilliant and outstanding teachers, and I had some that could

have used the training that goes with qualification. I think my

personal experience was very much that it was a mixed bag. But that is

a personal experience. I had that in the state system, they were all

qualified, I had good teachers and some pretty awful teachers who might

be qualified but were hopeless at teaching. There is a strong argument

to say that if the taxpayer is paying for it, the taxpayer can

establish certain key standards. You must be pleased about this, Labour

must be welcoming this degree of scepticism from Nick Clegg about

free schools, because you, in terms of party politics, are almost arm in

arm. Well, not quite! On the issue of unqualified teachers and the

standards of the National Curriculum, and you said you would

support free schools where they exist and about surplus places, but

in terms of the policy, much closer. That is true, but we have

taken a principled stand from the beginning. Our position has not

buried on this. You were against them and then policy changed.

Tristram Hunt last week was merely restating the policy that Stephen

Twigg had announced some time ago. He changed his mind quite

dramatically when he called free schools for yummy mummies. He might

have changed his own... The policy for Labour has always been firm. We

want qualified teachers, we want local government oversight, and we

want financial accountability. Does that make it difficult for David

Laws now? David is a big person, he understands this complexity, of both

being in government, being a loyal and effective part of the department

that you are engaged with, and of the government. That is also having

forward-looking plans for the party as we build up for the future. That

is complex and important, and I think the public understands it.

Therefore, those of us who are involved in it, we understand it as

well. The whole issue is just a conduit for Nick Clegg to actually

try to sound strong, which she is not. Don't talk over each other!

Please remind me, how many Liberal Democrat MPs are there. I think it

is roughly 57. Out of 650 Members of Parliament. Nick Clegg is trying to

keep his head above water. He is looking for something to sound

strong. He knows perfectly well that we are trying to do the best... What

is going to happen? Is it going to destroy the coalition? That is what

I want to know. Is he going to stick by the coalition and behave and

demonstrate collective responsibility? Every time that Nick

Clegg makes a statement that reflects Liberal Democrat policy and

where we want to go in the future, there are conservatives who say, no,

you have to be silent, fall in behind the Conservatives, do not

make a statement that might not be party policy. The Conservatives have

made many statements about where they want to take things, indeed

they often feel frustrated and constrained by Liberal Democrats.

You know, sometimes they convert that. I remember how hard we had to

negotiate, to get the cuts on people at the bottom... Before we get onto

that issue... We are in a situation where there is a relative amount of

freedom within the coalition structure, and Nick Clegg has a long

track record... Let's stop there. Just really briefly, are you going

to try to woo David Laws to the Conservatives? We do not need to do

that. All right, that is fine! To the town of Dunfermline in Fife, and

this week voters be picking a new member of Scottish Parliament after

their previous one, Bill Walker, was jailed for domestic violence. He had

been a member of the SNP but was thrown out when the allegations came

to light. The last time the seat was fought, it was pretty close, with

Labour just 590 votes behind the Nationalists. For some reason, Adam

was keen to go there. My mum lives in this constituency.

Over that side is Edinburgh and arguments about the referendum, not

see or will commit EU membership and on the side is done ferment and

the pavement politics of a classic Parliament. -- North Sea oil or, EU

membership. We are very keen to support the parents and maintain

our services, including this local school. Isn't it misleading? This

is a fantastic example for parents of Dunfermline and the wider

community to show the Labour council they care about services.

The Labour candidate is on the council. No decisions have been

taken about schools. As a mother, Iris like to keep every school in

five Open. -- I would like. Councils have to make cuts due to

the SNP government. Look here it is on the front cover! Gordon Brown.

He is still the MP for the constituency next door. Round here,

he is still a local hero. The Lib Dem candidate wants to talk about

apprenticeships and seems annoyed the by-election is dominated by the

issue of schools. I am disappointed they have taken up one local issue

are not taken it as a wide local issue about local services and

local democracy. It is all well and good to said there was a poor one

group of parents but the issues on the doorstep of wider than that. --

and they will support one group of parents. It is about the best way

to take forward the town centres. Since they have had a majority,

they had been ignoring all of that. People have been paying pre-

recession business rates and it is not good enough. It is only

happening as a result of someone being exposed as a wife beater. Did

I mention that the Abbey is the final resting place of Robert the

Bruce? I knew the independence issue would creeping somewhere! --

creep in. And the SNP MSP, Linda Fabiani, joins us now from Glasgow.

This will be a real test of SNP support. How confident are you? I

think we have a really good campaign going. The have an

excellent candidate. It has been interesting being there. I had been

there quite a lot. People are recognising what the Government is

doing for them. You say people are recognising what the SNP have done.

The leaflets at the start of the campaign to put a lot about the

independence campaign. Now they're talking about the local schools

issue. Is that because the issue of independence is not resonating with

voters? Of course it resonates with voters. A very important referendum

coming up next Georg. It a be bad of us not to talk about that. --

next year. It is a two-pronged campaign. It is about adding

another member to fight Scotland's corner. There are local issues and

there are national issues. How realistic is the SNP? University

tuition fees are all free. Can the SMP not make one hard decision? We

are always making hard decisions. We have to do that. It is because

of the settlement are get to Westminster and we have cuts

imposed on us after budgets are agreed. We do it well. We have an

excellent Chancellor. You have not made one hard decision? That is

what devolution is all about. We have delivered a balanced budget

every year. Universality is very important. We are up against the

cat's Commission. No back door tuition fees or bridge tolls. These

things are extremely important. If you couple that with the Scottish

Enterprise Investment, we are doing as well as we can. Why, on the

issue of energy prices, why does he not back the price freeze of Ed

Miliband? We are hearing rapid rises for energy companies. We will

look at ways of really cutting prices. We want to pay nationally

subsidies that people paid through their bills at the moment three

European funding. We want to do real action to help people. --

through European funding. By- elections are always tough. I hope

we will win. We have a fantastic candidate. Where the SNP to lose,

it to be clear the wheels are coming off the Alex Sandro

bandwagon. -- Alex Salmond bandwagon. I have real confidence

in our excellent candidate but by- elections are different from real

elections. We hear from Alistair Darling but

not Gordon Brown. He is a hero. Should he be used more? He is

playing a critical role in this particular by-election. Do you

think the Conservatives are making up the numbers? Not battle. I'm

talking about the whole issue of devolution. -- not at all. It was

clear that the Labour government thought if they gave a devolved

Scottish Parliament to Scotland and a Welsh assembly to Wales can

everyone would vote for Labour and everyone would be a joyous and

happy. That was a totally naive concept. We are listening to

someone saying, if we have an SMP, we will go independent and it will

be funded from the European fund was up it is insane. What about the

fact that Labour did not work hard enough? -- European Fund. There is

an element of truth in that. The Liberal Democrats have lost a lot

of support. There was a price for going into coalition. A huge price.

We were faced with a huge crisis and that has been inevitable. You

heard the frustration from the Liberal Democrat candidate that we

think a lot of this discussion should be around apprenticeships

and jobs. Many Scottish firms so far had engaged in this process. It

is crucially important for young people. I hope we get a focus back

around those issues. There are seven candidates for the

Dunfermline by election and you can find details of them all on the BBC

website. Now who likes a bit of gloves off political campaigning?

We always like to show a bit. Take a look at this.

Well, later this week the Conservatives are planning to

launch a new campaign video featuring Mystic Ed and His Crystal

Balls, ridiculing the Labour leadership's economic predictions.

The coalition party is needing clearly into election mode. Is

there a worry about being over- confident on the economy? Not at

all. We need to exude some confidence - not too much. The

reality is that Ed Balls has continually tried to trash

everything the coalition government had been doing in order to improve

the economy. It is important that people appreciate that we need more

time but things are looking better. And to remind people that Ed Balls

was the cohort of Gordon Brown. No more boom and bust. Look at it! The

Labour government completely destroyed this country economically.

There was a global crisis. There was a global crisis but it was

hugely made worse by the Labour government, who only know had to

spend money. When we left government, the economy was growing.

Three wasted years. Yes, it was growing. The point about this

obnoxious personalised campaign out is the only reason it is taking

place is because the Government knows the cost of living - people's

concerns about the cost of living - the Tories do not understand this

and people in the street relate to what Ed Miliband is saying. I was

on the doorstep in Gloucester and there were people who voted Liberal

Democrat in the past to run out voting Labour because Ed Miliband

understands the problems we are having day-to-day with the Budget.

We will never know categorically whether the Government's policies

delayed a recovery or whether your policies would have hastened it?

Labour were wrong, one day, to say that the Government policies would

choke off the recovery. Growth has returned. Gross has returned but

Gross is returning very slowly. Much more slowly than it would have

done. -- growth is Wittering. We keep hearing this nonsense in a

house of Lords. Labour left us with a wrecked economy. When the

financial crisis hit, there was no cushion because of years of

overspending and years of overspending programmed for the

future. There was no commission to be able to deal with that crisis. -

- cushion. They have argued for more and more debt. Every policy

that we espouse is a costed policy. We do not call for more debt. You

called for fiscal stimulus to get more growth. We said, at the time,

had we been in government, we would have spent more. Now we are costing

every policy that we espouse. The problem is credibility in terms of

the economy. In terms of the overspending allegation against

Labour, the Tories did not ever call for that to be reined in when

they were in opposition. They did not call for more regulation on the

banks. That is not true. There was always discussion about how we do

what we can... Not before the crash. The reality is, the Tories have

always recognised the best way out of the crisis was to create more

jobs, have a situation where we stop the massive spending across

all departments which went on and on, regardless of what was

happening across the country. Now we have a situation where we are

saying the only way out of this is to have jobs. Youth unemployment is

going down. A youth unemployment is not going down. This improvement in

the economy, which of course I welcome, at the moment the only

people who benefit are a privileged view. The working people of this

country and not benefiting at all four star We will all have to agree

to disagree. That is it. -- at all. That is all for today. The One

o'clock News is starting over on BBC One now. I will be here at noon

tomorrow with all the big political stories of the day and I will be

joined by David Blunkett. Goodbye.