05/06/2014 Daily Politics


05/06/2014

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn discuss the Queen's Speech with Andrew Lansley, and the lead singer of James, Tim Booth, gives his view on the impact of organised religion on society.


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Transcript


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It's the morning after the Queen's Speech.

:00:34.:00:41.

So we know how Parliament's going to be spending the next year.

:00:42.:00:45.

But does it add up to a bumper political agenda

:00:46.:00:47.

Or was it all just a bit of a rag bag of legislative odds and sods?

:00:48.:00:53.

There were new laws on pensions, childcare, slavery and plastic bags.

:00:54.:00:56.

We'll be talking to the minister responsible for taking

:00:57.:00:59.

Ministers have been out and about trying to damp down the row

:01:00.:01:03.

between Michael Gove and Theresa May over how to tackle extremism.

:01:04.:01:06.

As rows go, it was a biggie, but where does it leave the Governemnt's

:01:07.:01:10.

We all remember those long hot days back in 2010

:01:11.:01:17.

when two parties decided how to get along together in coaltion.

:01:18.:01:21.

If it happens again after next year's election,

:01:22.:01:28.

And we'll be hearing from Tim Booth, lead singer of the band James,

:01:29.:01:37.

on why it is time to free our bodies from the ties of religion.

:01:38.:01:47.

All that in the next hour, and with us for the duration, Peter Hennessy.

:01:48.:01:51.

He's says he likes gossip and French wine.

:01:52.:02:03.

Well Peter, on this show we rarely have any of those things.

:02:04.:02:11.

The polls are open in the Newark by-election triggered

:02:12.:02:14.

by the resignation of the former Tory MP Patrick Mercer following

:02:15.:02:17.

We can't talk about the vote today for fear of influencing your vote -

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as if we would - but fear not, I'll be back this evening

:02:25.:02:27.

when the polls close for a marathon of by-election coverage

:02:28.:02:30.

So yesterday, Her Majesty bought her brand new golden coach

:02:31.:02:40.

down the road to Westminster for the annual state opening of Parliament.

:02:41.:02:43.

She was there to read out the Government's planned

:02:44.:02:46.

parliamentary business for the year up to the election, and

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the coalition said it proved they were still "fizzing" with ideas.

:02:50.:03:00.

Was this really any different to any other Queen's Speech? No, it wasn't.

:03:01.:03:07.

These words can take on a resonance of their own. I remember when we

:03:08.:03:12.

worked together, it was always inconvenient if you had worked out

:03:13.:03:16.

the story in your head and it did not quite fit the events as they

:03:17.:03:21.

transpired! Because what we have swerve very good at was instantly

:03:22.:03:26.

minting new cliches. I think it is quite wrong to call it a zombie

:03:27.:03:31.

parliament. I think the Modern Slavery Bill is very important, and

:03:32.:03:34.

the pensions stuff is of great significance and promise. Zombie it

:03:35.:03:39.

was not, but the fag end government is always like that. The nerve ends

:03:40.:03:44.

are getting more and more excited about the prospect. The tribes are

:03:45.:03:51.

starting to align for the next election. The emotional geography of

:03:52.:03:56.

the last year of a parliament is always interesting. And there is

:03:57.:04:01.

always the lens of the upcoming election? That's right. There is

:04:02.:04:04.

always something which could happen which could change the political

:04:05.:04:08.

weather, some international event, for example. And there is one big

:04:09.:04:13.

thing which was not mentioned in the Queen's Speech, because you cannot

:04:14.:04:16.

legislate for it, which is a possible independent Scotland. In

:04:17.:04:22.

September, if Scotland decides to separate, the preoccupation of

:04:23.:04:25.

Whitehall will be hell on earth to make it operable. All hands will be

:04:26.:04:31.

to that pump, and our nation will change, the configurations of the

:04:32.:04:33.

nation, but also the emotional make-up of the nation. You cannot

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legislate for that. And for reasons I have never understood, the Cabinet

:04:39.:04:44.

decided there should be no contingency planning for Scottish

:04:45.:04:50.

separation. So that will all have to start on the 19th of September, from

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scratch! So we know that the Queen had

:04:53.:04:56.

a brand-new coach - central-heated, I hear - she's slowly catching up

:04:57.:04:59.

with the modern motor car. But what exactly was that "fizz"

:05:00.:05:02.

in Her Majesty's Most Gracious Yesterday was

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the coalition's last Queen's Speech before the general election next

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year, and there were 11 new bills. They included a Private Pensions

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Bill which introduces new "defined ambition" collective pension

:05:17.:05:19.

schemes, allowing people to pay into A Childcare Payments Bill, which

:05:20.:05:22.

introduces a new tax-free childcare subsidy worth up to ?2,000 a year

:05:23.:05:27.

per child, from the autumn of 2015. There was a Modern Slavery Bill that

:05:28.:05:31.

will punish those convicted of the most serious offences with

:05:32.:05:34.

life sentences - others will be subject to restrictions

:05:35.:05:38.

on their movements and activities. The courts will also be able to

:05:39.:05:41.

order offenders to compensate A Social Action, Responsibility

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and Heroism Bill, which helps people who are sued after intervening

:05:47.:05:52.

in emergencies or acting to protect And there's a Recall of MPs Bill -

:05:53.:05:57.

voters will be able to trigger a by-election where an MP has

:05:58.:06:06.

committed serious wrongdoing, but There are also six bills that are

:06:07.:06:10.

being carried over from the 2013-14 parliamentary session -

:06:11.:06:23.

including the controversial High Speed Rail Bill, which has led

:06:24.:06:25.

to suggestions that some Let's speak now to Thomas Docherty,

:06:26.:06:31.

who's Shadow Deputy Leader So, hardly says on the parliament?

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Where the Government has set out steps, such as the Newark, such as

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the Modern Slavery Bill, we will obviously work with them, but this

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is also a missed opportunity. There is nothing at all about the National

:06:58.:07:01.

Health Service, nothing about helping hard-pressed families with

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the cost of energy. There was nothing at all about immigration. It

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is a real missed opportunity. This is a government which has both run

:07:09.:07:14.

out of steam as well as ideas in many of these important areas. Let's

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look at immigration - would you like to see fewer immigrants to Britain

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from the European Union? Obviously, we had a really important speech

:07:24.:07:28.

from Ed Miliband last week where he set out in some detail the Labour

:07:29.:07:33.

Party's approach. We think immigration is a good thing for our

:07:34.:07:36.

country, but it has to be managed properly. So do you want fewer

:07:37.:07:42.

immigrants? There is a dividing line, isn't there, in labour? Tony

:07:43.:07:46.

Blair said anti-immigration language is very dangerous, people should not

:07:47.:07:50.

be blaming immigrants if they are struggling to get a job. And then we

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had another senior Labour figure, John Denham, saying that Labour

:07:56.:07:59.

should be honest about what they are trying to do, which is to cut the

:08:00.:08:04.

number of EU migrants - who is right? Obviously it is Ed who is

:08:05.:08:12.

white. He was not in that choice! He is the only party leader who

:08:13.:08:17.

actually seems to listen to the concerns raised by our constituents.

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But he also has the courage to say, we think immigration is a good

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thing. We think people want to come here to study and work, and to help

:08:25.:08:29.

the economy, and that is a good thing. What we need is a managed

:08:30.:08:35.

immigration policy. After four years, this government has failed to

:08:36.:08:39.

hit its own targets on immigration. So you do not think there should be

:08:40.:08:43.

a target, and you think the freedom of movement of people within the EU

:08:44.:08:50.

should continue unabated? We are clear that we want to work with the

:08:51.:08:52.

Government to have a sensible policy. What is that policy? Having

:08:53.:08:59.

false targets, and Theresa May set a bizarre target for the number of

:09:00.:09:02.

migrants, which was spectacularly missed. Look, the key thing is, it

:09:03.:09:09.

is not about coming up with artificial targets... But people

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would like to know, would Labour like to see fewer people coming from

:09:16.:09:21.

the EU to work here? Is that why you are clamping down on dodgy agencies,

:09:22.:09:26.

enforcing the minimum wage, all of these things, it is all about trying

:09:27.:09:29.

to deter people coming here to work from the EU, is that the case? It is

:09:30.:09:36.

not about determined people, it is about stopping unscrupulous

:09:37.:09:37.

employers from taking advantage of people. That is what Ed set out in

:09:38.:09:44.

Thurrock last week, it was a really gutsy speech. He is the only party

:09:45.:09:47.

leader who has said anything on immigration. Ian Austin, one of your

:09:48.:09:52.

Parliamentary colleagues, yesterday asked David Cameron why there was no

:09:53.:09:58.

bail for an in-out referendum in this Parliament - do you think there

:09:59.:10:04.

should be? We have brought in a very important referendum which is coming

:10:05.:10:08.

up in September. That is our priority. We want to keep the UK

:10:09.:10:16.

together. So, no chance of Ed Miliband offering an in-out

:10:17.:10:19.

referendum on the EU going into the election? I am not going to start

:10:20.:10:22.

making policy announcements ten months away from an election. That

:10:23.:10:31.

is for Ed Miliband. Let's look at the NHS - would you like to see

:10:32.:10:35.

Labour promise a bigger health budget? Andy Burnham has said

:10:36.:10:41.

clearly that we want to make sure... Would you like to see more

:10:42.:10:49.

money spent on the NHS? It is not about restructuring, it is about

:10:50.:10:53.

getting value for the money that we spend. But do you think more should

:10:54.:10:59.

be spent on the NHS, because of all the talk that there is going to be

:11:00.:11:05.

this massive black hole in funding, should Labour promise to spend more

:11:06.:11:12.

on the NHS? I think it is an important issue for every voter, and

:11:13.:11:17.

you're right, Labour has got a very good track record on the NHS. A

:11:18.:11:23.

recent poll found that only 29% of people agreed that Labour was the

:11:24.:11:26.

most trusted party to run the Health Service, is that why you are

:11:27.:11:29.

planning to say, leading up to the election, Labour will spend more, it

:11:30.:11:35.

will be intense in taxes to pay for the NHS? Again, I am not going to

:11:36.:11:39.

start making policy announcements on The Daily Politics. What is true is

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that more people trust Labour with the Health Service more than they

:11:46.:11:48.

trust the coalition parties, and rightly so. That is why Andy Burnham

:11:49.:11:54.

has announced that we are going to be rolling back some of the

:11:55.:11:57.

privatisation that we have seen introduced by Andrew Lansley and his

:11:58.:12:03.

colleagues over the years. One final go - can you rule out an increase in

:12:04.:12:09.

national insurance contribution to pay for increased spending on the

:12:10.:12:14.

NHS? It has been widely reported. One of your colleagues, Frank Field,

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says he thinks voters will go for that, is it going to happen? What we

:12:19.:12:24.

have heard this morning is various backbench colleagues, the person who

:12:25.:12:28.

will make these announcements is Ed Miliband, he is the leader. He will

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set out exactly where we stand as we get closer to the election.

:12:33.:12:43.

With us now is the man responsible for the Government's legislative

:12:44.:12:46.

programme, Andrew Lansley, the Leader of the House of Commons.

:12:47.:12:55.

Let's look at a couple of things in this Queen's Speech. What is

:12:56.:13:00.

Conservative about a 5p tax on carrier bags? We are a government

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and the party which is committed to improving our environment. Being

:13:07.:13:10.

Conservative is doing things which are practical. I think we have

:13:11.:13:16.

acknowledged, I know how it works in Wales, people take it seriously,

:13:17.:13:20.

they have changed their behaviour. Sometimes you need a nudge, this is

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going to be a pretty hefty nudge towards a much more environmentally

:13:26.:13:33.

friendly solution. People will be making a contribution to charity,

:13:34.:13:36.

some ?20 million per year, we estimate. Another tax on ordinary

:13:37.:13:43.

people? Insofar as they do not reuse their carrier bags. I quite like

:13:44.:13:47.

nudges, if people do not want to pay, then they can easily avoid

:13:48.:13:54.

paying for the carrier bags. And the ones that people use time and time

:13:55.:13:57.

again are actually hotbeds of various viruses, have you taken that

:13:58.:14:06.

into account? My friends at DEFRA are responsible for that. It is a

:14:07.:14:10.

policy which has been adopted in Wales and Northern Ireland... That

:14:11.:14:18.

does not make it right. If there are any issues like that, it is a matter

:14:19.:14:22.

for DEFRA. The point you make would be true anyway. But you will be

:14:23.:14:31.

forcing them to do it. Anyway, the Lib Dems told you to do it, didn't

:14:32.:14:38.

they? No, it was a coalition policy. It was not in the coalition

:14:39.:14:40.

agreement? No, but we have worked together. In the last session of the

:14:41.:14:46.

Parliament, you are more likely to see as completing the coalition

:14:47.:14:49.

programme, but also dealing with other issues are things like the

:14:50.:14:56.

Serious Crime Bill, which are not necessarily... Let's look at one of

:14:57.:15:04.

the other measures, the ability to recall your MP if they have been

:15:05.:15:11.

behaving particularly badly, putting a mechanism in place, though not as

:15:12.:15:17.

strong as some would have liked. Which MPs in this Parliament do you

:15:18.:15:21.

think would have been subject to recall? It depends on the house. We

:15:22.:15:30.

structure the provision. We are clear that one of the triggers would

:15:31.:15:35.

be any custodial sentence, so Denis MacShane, who was tried and

:15:36.:15:39.

convicted there was a custodial sentence, he would have been subject

:15:40.:15:43.

to disqualification and recall as a consequence of that. In fact, it

:15:44.:15:48.

would have been recall rather than disqualification because it was not

:15:49.:15:52.

beyond 12 months. The second part of that serious wrongdoing where the

:15:53.:15:57.

house has decided that somebody should be subject to recall, the

:15:58.:16:02.

criteria that are going to be a matter for continuing discussion. We

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brought forward a draft bill and are sticking to a basic structure, but

:16:07.:16:09.

to precisely identify that is yet to come. And there have been issues

:16:10.:16:15.

about whether it should be an MP suspended from the service of the

:16:16.:16:18.

House of Commons were given period of time. That is something are

:16:19.:16:22.

discussing. In a proper recall system it would not be up to you, it

:16:23.:16:26.

would be up to the electors in the constituents. It is a recall system.

:16:27.:16:32.

You could still block it if you wanted to. It's a matter of whether

:16:33.:16:36.

the House of Commons has concluded there is serious wrongdoing that has

:16:37.:16:42.

taken place. There is a different proposal for a recall system which

:16:43.:16:46.

is, as you might say, call it pure rather than proper. The pure system

:16:47.:16:51.

would be a large number of constituents petitioning for an MP

:16:52.:16:55.

to be recall. There are two arguments against it. The recall is

:16:56.:16:58.

the general election. When you have judgements on an MP, our view is

:16:59.:17:05.

that our judgements, the decisions we take, the popularity of those,

:17:06.:17:09.

those are subject to recall, as it were, and re-evaluation at the time

:17:10.:17:13.

of the general election. What happens if the MP goes badly wrong

:17:14.:17:17.

in the first year? What if he does exactly the opposite of everything

:17:18.:17:23.

he said and is caught by all sorts of things? If you leave it to the

:17:24.:17:26.

election, you are still stuck with him or her for five years. There are

:17:27.:17:32.

two things. One is doing things that your constituents might not approve

:17:33.:17:36.

of, which is a political judgement. MPs are sent to the House of Commons

:17:37.:17:39.

to exercise their judgement, not necessarily to do the things agreed

:17:40.:17:42.

with by the majority of their constituents on each item as you go

:17:43.:17:45.

along. Evidence in previous parliaments, like the rock wall --

:17:46.:17:54.

the Iraq war. But if serious wrongdoing takes place in the first

:17:55.:17:58.

year, that is what it is about. What wrongdoing has happened in this

:17:59.:18:01.

parliament that would be subject to this recall Bale? I mentioned Dennis

:18:02.:18:10.

McShane. Maria Miller? It depends on the nature of the criteria. She was

:18:11.:18:14.

not subject, from the standards committee, to the recommendation

:18:15.:18:17.

that she be suspended. Patrick Mercer? He was subject to the

:18:18.:18:23.

recommendation, so the distinction might emerge there. He resigned

:18:24.:18:28.

anyway, so it might not have come to that. Recall is a powerful weapon,

:18:29.:18:33.

and people know that if they commit serious wrongdoing, they cannot just

:18:34.:18:39.

simply ignore that and take a suspension and simply carry on

:18:40.:18:43.

regardless. In this important argument between Theresa May and

:18:44.:18:51.

Michael Gove, the extremism, whose side are you on? I'm not a member of

:18:52.:18:59.

some of the extremism task force. But we know what the divisions are.

:19:00.:19:03.

They are working together to get this right. We all know what we are

:19:04.:19:06.

setting out to do, which is to have a strategy of counterterrorism which

:19:07.:19:13.

is about protecting ourselves against terrorism and preventing it

:19:14.:19:19.

and preventing the longer term. -- preventing it in the longer term.

:19:20.:19:22.

They have had a robust debate, but I don't think it's right to

:19:23.:19:26.

characterise them as being on the one hand of dealing with long-term

:19:27.:19:30.

issues that lead to the circumstances for terrorism to

:19:31.:19:34.

emerge and just dealing with terrorism. That is not how any of us

:19:35.:19:38.

can deal with this. We are working together to make sure that we

:19:39.:19:43.

prevent the circumstances and the incidence of terrorism. If you are

:19:44.:19:47.

working together why did the Home Office released the text of a letter

:19:48.:19:49.

attacking the education Department at two a.m.? Frankly, I don't know.

:19:50.:19:55.

It doesn't suggest harmony to me. Does it do you? What it suggests is

:19:56.:20:01.

there is a thing going on where people are trying to explain their

:20:02.:20:04.

respective positions. At two in the morning? The government should be

:20:05.:20:09.

conveying what actually happened yesterday. Michael Gove said that we

:20:10.:20:14.

should ignore it, and they then both explained how they were working

:20:15.:20:17.

together. After the Prime Minister bang their heads together. They put

:20:18.:20:22.

that out together. I couldn't see any bruises yesterday. I saw Theresa

:20:23.:20:27.

yesterday and I didn't see any bruises. I was talking about Michael

:20:28.:20:31.

Gove. Well, I didn't see him yesterday. There's a big job in the

:20:32.:20:34.

European commission coming up. Who do you think would be a suitable

:20:35.:20:40.

candidate? I think the Prime Minister will say who he thinks

:20:41.:20:44.

should be that person. Of course. It is his power to appoint. But who do

:20:45.:20:46.

you think would be a suitable candidate? I think the Prime

:20:47.:20:50.

Minister will make judgement and we will leave it to him. Commissioner

:20:51.:20:55.

Lansley sort of rolls off the tongue. Not my tongue. It rolled off

:20:56.:21:02.

mine. Let the Prime Minister make the decision will all be better. But

:21:03.:21:10.

if asked, would serve? My approaches -- but if he asked, would you

:21:11.:21:14.

serve? My approaches, if he asked I would be available. Has he asked

:21:15.:21:21.

you? It is the Prime Minister's job to make these decisions, not mine.

:21:22.:21:27.

You are Europhile, Eurosceptical something in between? I think my

:21:28.:21:33.

record would show that I have taken positions against the entry to the

:21:34.:21:37.

euro. I ran the 1999 William Hague campaign. I have been very much

:21:38.:21:44.

against, as the Prime Minister is, the idea of a closer union and

:21:45.:21:48.

constant integration. I do support the Prime Minister very much on the

:21:49.:21:52.

proposal that we should renegotiate and have a referendum, with the

:21:53.:21:55.

objective of securing the renegotiation that allows us

:21:56.:21:59.

confidently to secure a yes vote to remain inside the European Union. So

:22:00.:22:03.

the Prime Minister would be getting some good party line there? Well,

:22:04.:22:09.

whoever he sends, we want them to reflect the interests of this

:22:10.:22:13.

country. But if you become a Commissioner, you're not allowed to

:22:14.:22:18.

do that. You have to sign an agreement that you represent Europe.

:22:19.:22:24.

Happily. In the next period, as you saw from what Angela Merkel will

:22:25.:22:33.

say, the interest of the European Union is best served by Britain

:22:34.:22:36.

continuing in the EU. Anything else would be bad for Britain and Europe.

:22:37.:22:41.

We have a coincidence of interest between British national interest to

:22:42.:22:43.

secure reforming Europe and our continued membership on that basis

:22:44.:22:50.

-- reform in Europe. OK. Make sure you come and give us your first

:22:51.:22:55.

interview as Commissioner. Thank you very much. We would go to keep you,

:22:56.:23:01.

but we have to let you go. You can stay if you like. I've got five

:23:02.:23:09.

minutes, I think. Marvellous. I do like politicians who make a firm

:23:10.:23:10.

decision. By tradition,

:23:11.:23:13.

two backbenchers propose and second a "loyal address",

:23:14.:23:14.

which is a thank-you motion to One is usually

:23:15.:23:17.

a promising MP early in their political career, while the other is

:23:18.:23:22.

a longstanding parliamentarian. Yesterday, it was the turn

:23:23.:23:24.

of Conservative Penny Mordaunt The coalition's last stand. My

:23:25.:23:51.

government's legislated programme will continue to deliver on its

:23:52.:23:55.

long-term plan to build a stronger economy and a fairer society. I am

:23:56.:24:01.

proud today that we have a Parliamentary first, an all woman

:24:02.:24:04.

double act to propose and second the loyal address and I'm delighted to

:24:05.:24:09.

serve as the warm up act for the honourable member for mid Dorset and

:24:10.:24:15.

Poole. The Right Honourable member for Gainsborough is concerned about

:24:16.:24:20.

the consequence of the coalition running its full course. He might

:24:21.:24:25.

see this as the Thelma and Louise of the Parliamentary session. Driving

:24:26.:24:34.

at top speed to the Grand Canyon of electoral defeat. Let me reassure

:24:35.:24:38.

him that this will not be the case, because unlike 1966 Thunderbird,

:24:39.:24:48.

this coalition is right-hand drive. If she's looking for a new

:24:49.:24:53.

challenge, she should try wrestling a bacon sandwich live on national

:24:54.:24:58.

television. The coalition has been a difficult period for me politically,

:24:59.:25:01.

but I'm pleased to have the opportunity today to comment on just

:25:02.:25:05.

a few of the many policies of which I am generally very, very proud. And

:25:06.:25:11.

reflect on the economic recovery which was made possible by the

:25:12.:25:18.

formation of the coalition. Mr Speaker, I am honoured to commend

:25:19.:25:23.

the gracious speech to the house today. This Queen 's speech sets out

:25:24.:25:30.

the next steps in seeing out this vital plan to secure our future, but

:25:31.:25:34.

it will take the rest of this Parliament and the next two finish

:25:35.:25:37.

the task of turning our country round. That is the normally --

:25:38.:25:43.

enormity of the challenge but is matched by the strength of the

:25:44.:25:51.

commitment to sort it out by us. And it broke joins us now. Did you enjoy

:25:52.:25:57.

the experience? -- Annette Brooke. I don't thing I can say I was enjoying

:25:58.:26:00.

it because there is a lot of noise not picked up on the microphones.

:26:01.:26:04.

There weren't many Liberal Democrats there in relation to the others in

:26:05.:26:08.

the House of Commons, so I was determined to do that speech when I

:26:09.:26:14.

was asked to do it. I had been described as quietly determined, and

:26:15.:26:17.

I hope that came over in my approach. Let's talk about the

:26:18.:26:21.

content of the speech and the legislative programme. You know that

:26:22.:26:25.

Labour called it a zombie Parliament. Should have their been

:26:26.:26:30.

builds on the NHS, housing and immigration? -- bills. I think there

:26:31.:26:38.

is quite a lot of content in the Queens speech. We should count the

:26:39.:26:41.

number of them. Would you have liked to see one on the NHS or housing? I

:26:42.:26:47.

don't want to see any structural change in the NHS at the moment. I

:26:48.:26:52.

think National health staff would have been aghast if there was

:26:53.:26:54.

anything major. There is so much bedding down to happen. This has

:26:55.:26:59.

been a reforming government though. Quite surprisingly with a coalition

:27:00.:27:03.

that you might think is not going to be moving forward at the same pace.

:27:04.:27:09.

You said it was a difficult period, politically, the idea of coalition.

:27:10.:27:15.

So you've changed your mind? I said it was a difficult period for

:27:16.:27:18.

somebody on the left wing of the Liberal Democrats, because you have

:27:19.:27:20.

to make compromises and it doesn't come easily to people. I think it

:27:21.:27:24.

was really important yesterday that I identified that it was difficult,

:27:25.:27:28.

but look what has come out of it, things I am proud of. Plastic bags?

:27:29.:27:33.

Was that a Liberal Democrat policy imposed on the Conservatives? It is

:27:34.:27:38.

easy to belittle that. Every time I put into the Private members Bill

:27:39.:27:42.

and you think it's like winning the lottery, and there was one year I

:27:43.:27:48.

thought I might do that. Was it your idea though, imposed on the

:27:49.:27:54.

Conservatives? I certainly think it would come from the Liberal

:27:55.:27:57.

Democrats. It's been a conferences for some time and it's important in

:27:58.:28:00.

its own right, but I don't think we should overlook the overall

:28:01.:28:04.

significance of other green measures -- at conferences. Zero carbon

:28:05.:28:10.

homes, that's really important. I think the Liberal Democrat impact in

:28:11.:28:16.

keeping this towards the green issues and tackling climate change

:28:17.:28:22.

has been really important. I do not think a Conservative government

:28:23.:28:25.

would has stuck as hard as we have managed to even know, again, things

:28:26.:28:28.

have had to be moderated to get an agreement. What is your response to

:28:29.:28:33.

that? Have you been a block on these measures? We set out at the outset

:28:34.:28:40.

of the coalition to be the greenest government ever and I think it's

:28:41.:28:43.

happening. We are leading in Europe in Europe and the reduction of

:28:44.:28:46.

carbon emissions will stop 34% down on the 1990 level. A lot has

:28:47.:28:57.

happened with it. It doesn't help the coalition to say this is our

:28:58.:29:03.

bit, this is your bid. -- your bit. But both sides would like to prove

:29:04.:29:06.

which were their policies. Looking at the recall Bill, do you agree

:29:07.:29:10.

with Zac Goldsmith what is being proposed so far is con? I think it's

:29:11.:29:15.

important we hacks a proposal on the table. I thought that was going to

:29:16.:29:19.

be lost -- had a proposal. It was in the manifesto and in the coalition

:29:20.:29:23.

agreement. Something on the table has to be better than nothing.

:29:24.:29:27.

There's lots of chance for debate in committee, and we would be open to

:29:28.:29:33.

look at suggestions. I think Zac Goldsmith has to convince his own

:29:34.:29:37.

party about this. It's interesting this bill, but it is has taken quite

:29:38.:29:42.

a significance when you thought it wouldn't have been that important

:29:43.:29:47.

within the legislative programme. We are all still jangling with the

:29:48.:29:50.

reaction to the expenses scandal. I know it's five years ago, but it was

:29:51.:29:54.

a sea change. It reinforced those who took a dim view of the political

:29:55.:29:59.

class and it made those who were neutral or did not care outrage. We

:30:00.:30:04.

are still in the shadow of that. That's why it's a lightning

:30:05.:30:06.

conductor question and part of putting that right in the public's

:30:07.:30:13.

mind. Are they ducking it? If MPs can effectively block it, if it

:30:14.:30:16.

isn't the will of the constituents, isn't that a bit of a sham?

:30:17.:30:29.

it. Otherwise you can get great spasms of outrage in the newspapers.

:30:30.:30:35.

I know it is 10% of the electorate to have two sign up for it, and that

:30:36.:30:39.

is a big enough hurdle. But you do need some kind of calibration. I am

:30:40.:30:42.

sufficiently trusting of the Parliamentary system cover such that

:30:43.:30:47.

if there is a committee of MPs, that adds to the sense of proportionality

:30:48.:30:51.

and justice, because you do not want witchhunts. Even though the expenses

:30:52.:30:55.

scandal was an outrage and people are still enraged by it. Are you

:30:56.:31:01.

pleased you welcomed the talks, informal as they may be, between the

:31:02.:31:09.

Lib Dems and Labour? I think it is important to have cross-party talks

:31:10.:31:12.

right across the board, all the way through. It makes for better

:31:13.:31:15.

government. That is how it should be. I do not want any fixes over

:31:16.:31:22.

dinner parties and the like, but talking is good. What about party

:31:23.:31:28.

morale, very briefly, after the wipe-out in the European elections

:31:29.:31:32.

and poor performance in the locals? We obviously had dreadful results,

:31:33.:31:38.

we have lost some excellent MEPs and councillors of long-standing, and I

:31:39.:31:41.

would say I am pretty gutted about that. I think we have had very

:31:42.:31:47.

positive talks, I certainly went straight back on the doorstep and

:31:48.:31:51.

was out canvassing every day last week, which was perhaps quite a

:31:52.:31:56.

brave thing to do. I learned that people were still with us locally,

:31:57.:32:00.

but they have questions as to the next vote. And we have to get our

:32:01.:32:07.

message out, and we do have to review our messaging, that I am

:32:08.:32:12.

quite sure of. We are going to have to leave it there. Thank you very

:32:13.:32:19.

much. We are used to arguments between the Lib Dems and

:32:20.:32:22.

Conservative members of the government, but today, David Cameron

:32:23.:32:25.

is dealing with a spat which has broken out between two of his most

:32:26.:32:29.

important Cabinet members. He has demanded a full account about what

:32:30.:32:35.

has happened in the argument between Theresa May and Michael Gove, who

:32:36.:32:39.

have been arguing over what to do about the problem of alleged Islamic

:32:40.:32:45.

extremism in schools. It has been rumbling on this morning. Michael

:32:46.:32:48.

Gove had this to say as he left for work... Good morning, how are you? I

:32:49.:32:57.

think Teresa May is doing a fantastic job. It is lovely to see

:32:58.:33:02.

you all, and I hope that you will all enjoy the rest of today, there

:33:03.:33:08.

is a lot going on. We take a very firm line. Well, Labour asked for a

:33:09.:33:18.

government response, and the Leader of the House of Commons, who has

:33:19.:33:21.

just left us, Andrew Lansley, he had this to say... I think the time for

:33:22.:33:26.

a statement is when Ofsted have produced their report, that would be

:33:27.:33:32.

appropriate. As far as colleagues working together on the extremism

:33:33.:33:36.

task force, absolutely, they are working together, they are doing so

:33:37.:33:42.

energetically, and with an objective not only of taking these issues

:33:43.:33:46.

extremely seriously, but taking measures which are going to be

:33:47.:33:53.

effective. The extremism task force has already given rise to a range of

:33:54.:33:58.

measures that we have been taking. We are joined now by former chairman

:33:59.:34:06.

of the British Joint Intelligence Committee Pauline Neville Jones.

:34:07.:34:11.

Welcome back to the programme. What do you make of the state of the

:34:12.:34:16.

Government's counter extremism policy? It has important continuing

:34:17.:34:21.

elements in it, and serious work is being done on the front of not just

:34:22.:34:29.

preventing activity which results in violence, but also in the area of

:34:30.:34:36.

preventing the growth of extremist ideologies. I am not totally full of

:34:37.:34:45.

praise for this, but where I think the policy is lacking is in the

:34:46.:34:51.

develop and they really integration strategy. We have got to get beyond

:34:52.:34:57.

the argument about, is something extremist? Into the whole area of,

:34:58.:35:01.

what constitutes a really good, functioning Britain, and how you

:35:02.:35:06.

bring communities together. It is there that I think the emphasis

:35:07.:35:10.

needs to go. There is excellent work being done. And it government does

:35:11.:35:17.

have to take a lead and put some funding in, but it has to reside in

:35:18.:35:22.

the communities. We hear about extremist Muslim activity, and it is

:35:23.:35:29.

hard to know what has been going on in Birmingham, but where are the

:35:30.:35:34.

moderate Muslims who actually need to lead in a different direction?

:35:35.:35:40.

There is excellent work going on in a number of places, and I can give

:35:41.:35:44.

you examples, particularly in London, of programmes which bring

:35:45.:35:47.

youngsters together from all communities and take them through

:35:48.:35:51.

these issues in a very, very explicit way. And it produces

:35:52.:35:56.

remarkable results - remarkable results. A lot more money needs to

:35:57.:36:00.

go into that kind of thing. We would just like to welcome viewers from

:36:01.:36:05.

Scotland, who have been watching First Minister's Questions in

:36:06.:36:09.

Holyrood. Here, we are discussing the Government's anti-extremism

:36:10.:36:18.

agenda. Is it not surprising that things were allowed to get as far as

:36:19.:36:21.

they got in these schools in Birmingham? No, I agree, it is

:36:22.:36:27.

worrying. One does have to recognise, this is not just central

:36:28.:36:30.

government, a lot of this is local government. It is not always easy to

:36:31.:36:35.

get in from central government into the operation. Where the scores are

:36:36.:36:39.

academies, does that not really put the onus on central government? I

:36:40.:36:45.

think, no, something has been missing. One of the questions I

:36:46.:36:49.

asked is, what is the remit of Ofsted, and does it include in its

:36:50.:36:55.

remit, when it is marking schools and giving them a grading, does it

:36:56.:36:59.

include the kind of preoccupation which we are now suddenly faced with

:37:00.:37:03.

- are these children being led and taught in a way which helps them

:37:04.:37:08.

integrate? I am not at all saying that young girls should not where

:37:09.:37:13.

they hid jab. Although I would say that it used to be only after

:37:14.:37:16.

puberty that this was actually a Muslim practice. But what I do not

:37:17.:37:22.

want to see happen, I have to say, is girls wearing it as a matter of

:37:23.:37:25.

uniform. They should not be obliged them they should be allowed to

:37:26.:37:30.

choose. And you do see in the pictures absolutely uniform wearing

:37:31.:37:36.

of it, so, is that a good idea? I do not think so. It does not fit with a

:37:37.:37:42.

modern Britain. There is a clear difference of emphasis between

:37:43.:37:44.

Theresa May and Michael Gove on this, isn't there? It is very hard

:37:45.:37:51.

to be sure of anything until the 21 Ofsted reports are out, but I think

:37:52.:37:55.

I am closer to Teresa May, because I have always thought that in an open

:37:56.:37:59.

society, you have to be clear where the lines are between people's

:38:00.:38:04.

beliefs and those beliefs spilling over into intentions to do criminal

:38:05.:38:08.

things, harm other people. At the same time, the Prevent bit of the

:38:09.:38:17.

strategy, pursue, protect and prevent - is always the hardest,

:38:18.:38:21.

because the hearts and minds are the most difficult thing. In an open

:38:22.:38:25.

society, you want to trust people to do decent things, without having

:38:26.:38:30.

endless audit and inspection. It is worrying that anxiety like this

:38:31.:38:34.

means that the state inevitably will be tipped it, if not required in

:38:35.:38:38.

some circumstances, to intrude in what should be local matters. There

:38:39.:38:42.

is a wider debate about faith schools. We found a very good

:38:43.:38:45.

settlement for that in the last century, to give early in the 1944

:38:46.:38:52.

education act. But the question of the Islamic element in faith schools

:38:53.:38:56.

has reopened the question big time, and it is extremely difficult to

:38:57.:39:01.

know where the lines are drawn, without looking as if you are

:39:02.:39:04.

letting the state intrude in areas where people feel maybe it should

:39:05.:39:08.

not. But when it comes to schools, do we not always have to be on the

:39:09.:39:12.

lookout to make sure that what the pupils are getting is education and

:39:13.:39:16.

not instruction, because the two things are the three different?

:39:17.:39:25.

Absolutely. -- are very different. And how you design things is very

:39:26.:39:29.

important, how much you do in school and how much you do outside of

:39:30.:39:34.

school, for example. I want to see a lot more activity outside school,

:39:35.:39:38.

but which forms the context in which children are going to school. That

:39:39.:39:41.

is the context in which we are falling down. And we do need to

:39:42.:39:46.

mobilise the moderates. It is important that those who think

:39:47.:39:53.

Wright also help do right. If the polls are anything to go by,

:39:54.:39:59.

everything is still on the table for next year's general election. We

:40:00.:40:02.

could even end up with another coalition. But second time around,

:40:03.:40:06.

how different will the whole affair be? Eleanor Garnier has been having

:40:07.:40:13.

a look. In amongst a rolling scrum of cameras, reporters and news

:40:14.:40:17.

onlookers, there were twists and turns and drama. Before David

:40:18.:40:23.

Cameron eventually got the blessing of the Queen, and the key to number

:40:24.:40:28.

10 Downing Street, plenty of deals have been done. I aim to form a

:40:29.:40:34.

proper and full coalition between the Conservatives and the Liberal

:40:35.:40:39.

Democrats. This is going to be hard and difficult work. Coalition will

:40:40.:40:44.

throw up all sorts of challenges, but I believe together, we can

:40:45.:40:47.

provide that strong and stable government which our country needs.

:40:48.:40:52.

In fact, it had taken five days of haggling in May 2010 before the

:40:53.:40:59.

Tories and Lib Dems got together to create the first coalition

:41:00.:41:02.

government in the UK for more than 60 years. With less than a year

:41:03.:41:07.

until the next general election, we are all wondering what a new

:41:08.:41:12.

coalition might look like. All the polls show the prospect of another

:41:13.:41:17.

one is pretty high. Last time it was such a surprise, the first time

:41:18.:41:22.

since the war, nobody knew what to do, the civil servants, the

:41:23.:41:26.

politicians. This time I think everybody will be much more savvy.

:41:27.:41:31.

Parties will be much more clear about their red lines, what cannot

:41:32.:41:35.

negotiate a. But I think the leaders will have to be more open to putting

:41:36.:41:39.

to their parties the idea of going into coalition, which could come to

:41:40.:41:44.

get everything. Last time the Lib Dems did that, but the Tories

:41:45.:41:50.

didn't. The politicians might be calling the shots, but it is the

:41:51.:41:54.

thousands of civil servants here in Whitehall and across the country who

:41:55.:41:57.

keep the cogs of government turning. So, second time around, what kind of

:41:58.:42:02.

trouble could a coalition create for our civil servants? It seems a newly

:42:03.:42:09.

formed coalition is relatively easy for Whitehall mandarins to cope

:42:10.:42:12.

with. Trouble starts much further down the line. In the early years of

:42:13.:42:20.

Parliament it tends to be quite self reinforcing. So I think the

:42:21.:42:24.

challenges are that are far more in the run-up to an election.

:42:25.:42:29.

Coalitions have a tendency to fall apart, as you come close to general

:42:30.:42:36.

elections. The civil servants, for its own good, we want to try and

:42:37.:42:40.

make sure it keeps a distance from that kind of party politics. It is

:42:41.:42:44.

important that there are clear rules of the game, as to how the civil

:42:45.:42:51.

service can be used by each party. So, just how wide could the cracks

:42:52.:42:55.

in this relationship grow before the next election? There is no doubt

:42:56.:43:03.

divorce is an option, but come next May, this couple could be

:43:04.:43:07.

celebrating a five year political marriage by renewing their vows.

:43:08.:43:13.

Remember that, Peter Hennessy, the rose garden? I thought it was

:43:14.:43:19.

faintly toe curling at the time and I have not changed my mind. If there

:43:20.:43:26.

is another coalition, as the polls suggested there might be, will it be

:43:27.:43:31.

easier this time around? Yes, because we had a lot of adjusting to

:43:32.:43:36.

do. We had not had a coalition since the great World War II coalition.

:43:37.:43:38.

And the circumstances were different. We had to do what the

:43:39.:43:44.

Brits are good at, making it up as we go along. The planning in the

:43:45.:43:52.

Cabinet Office was well done, the permanent secretaries got ready

:43:53.:43:55.

piece of paper, for those of us who had to impersonate the Queen in the

:43:56.:44:06.

television studios. So, those of us who were impersonating the Queen,

:44:07.:44:10.

several of us had been involved in helping the Cabinet Office trawl up

:44:11.:44:16.

what became that bit of the Cabinet manual on Hung Parliament 's. so we

:44:17.:44:21.

had a bit of paper, which said what because Egyptian was, and it has

:44:22.:44:24.

been refined since, on the basis of experience. But now everybody is

:44:25.:44:31.

more attuned to it, the markets are more attuned to it. Unless there is

:44:32.:44:38.

a huge financial crisis. I would not be surprised if it is at least a

:44:39.:44:43.

week. The parties may well start laying out where their red lines

:44:44.:44:48.

are. You would have a kind of 2-term manifesto? Yes, that is what we

:44:49.:44:58.

would do if we were full-blooded. -- 2- tone manifesto. I do not think

:44:59.:45:04.

they will discuss much with parties ahead of time, but David Cameron has

:45:05.:45:08.

indicated that he will give his party say this time. He did not do

:45:09.:45:13.

so last time, although the Lib Dems did. So he will have to consult more

:45:14.:45:20.

people. All our nerve ends were used to rapid and civilised evictions,

:45:21.:45:25.

the removal van at the back of another 10 Downing Street. But as

:45:26.:45:33.

reflected in the latest version of the Cabinet manual, it is reflected

:45:34.:45:37.

that the Prime Minister will wait until it is obvious who the Queen

:45:38.:45:40.

will say, so there is no question of her being drawn into it. But it is

:45:41.:45:45.

only an expectation, it remains to be seen whether this will turn into

:45:46.:45:49.

a convention. And it still relies on the good chap theory of government,

:45:50.:45:56.

so that everybody behaves in the right way, and makes sure that the

:45:57.:46:01.

Queen has no whiff of politicisation about her. What about the civil

:46:02.:46:06.

servants, will they be pulling the strings, bringing the parties

:46:07.:46:11.

together, to try and get in quickly once a coalition has been

:46:12.:46:20.

established? The civil service was prepared to provide the secretariat,

:46:21.:46:26.

but this set of note you are taking, would they be under Freedom of

:46:27.:46:29.

information on the cabinet secretary said he did not know. Very

:46:30.:46:33.

interesting. That is why the civil service did not take the minute. The

:46:34.:46:38.

civil service has published something I was writing a couple of

:46:39.:46:42.

years ago, the sequence of events, and who saw what, and it was very

:46:43.:46:47.

interesting. The Private Secretary took an office in the cabinet and he

:46:48.:46:51.

went into twice to see Gordon Brown to tell him what the constitutional

:46:52.:46:55.

position was. Some of Gordon's advisers said it wasn't going to

:46:56.:47:00.

work, so just leave. He behaved with great dignity and only came out to

:47:01.:47:05.

resign when there were still 20 minutes left to run between the

:47:06.:47:08.

Conservative and Liberal Democrat negotiations. A fine run thing, but

:47:09.:47:13.

he behaved with great dignity. Always the fear is that somebody who

:47:14.:47:17.

is exhausted says something unfortunate and it all goes sour and

:47:18.:47:22.

false accusations are made. The Queen does on that, does she? Only

:47:23.:47:28.

got a year to think about it -- does not want that.

:47:29.:47:30.

Is organised religion a force for good, a source of morality?

:47:31.:47:33.

Or are its rules and regulations, particularly on sexuality

:47:34.:47:36.

and the human body, the cause of conflict and a source of prejudice?

:47:37.:47:40.

Tim Booth is the lead singer of the band, James.

:47:41.:47:42.

Much of his work reflects questions around religion

:47:43.:47:45.

The dominant religions of Islam, Christianity and Judaism believe

:47:46.:48:12.

that man must transcend his sexual nature. That our sinful bodies need

:48:13.:48:18.

controlling, preferably by the church. I believe that these

:48:19.:48:25.

ancient, patriarchal beliefs still have a far too strong and subtle

:48:26.:48:27.

control over our society. The enforced suppression of our

:48:28.:48:56.

sexuality is poisonous, natural and damages our mental and physical

:48:57.:49:00.

well-being. How many well-intentioned priests are

:49:01.:49:05.

attempting to stem their natural desires by being unnaturally

:49:06.:49:12.

celibate? Then became paedophiles? Adultery and homosexuality are still

:49:13.:49:15.

punished by stoning in parts of the world. Circumcision is routinely

:49:16.:49:21.

performed on newborns without thought of psychological

:49:22.:49:27.

consequences. In the time of AIDS, it is a sin to use a condom. In most

:49:28.:49:34.

countries we cannot obtain assisted suicide even when in unbearable

:49:35.:49:38.

pain. Whilst the murder of young girls is called honour killing.

:49:39.:49:52.

Women are labelled whores for the merest expression of their

:49:53.:50:03.

sexuality. It is estimated that 120 million girls have had their

:50:04.:50:09.

clitoris is removed. If boys were being castrated like this, wouldn't

:50:10.:50:15.

we have stopped it by now? Religion still tries to dictate what we can

:50:16.:50:19.

and cannot do with our bodies and shames us, or much worse, for

:50:20.:50:24.

disobedience. Darwin caused a storm by saying we are descended from

:50:25.:50:28.

apes. This doesn't go far enough. We are apes. Apes in denial, with some

:50:29.:50:36.

pretentious aspirations. We have some basic, beautiful, natural needs

:50:37.:50:41.

that we are often fearful to express. Finger-pointing shame is

:50:42.:50:48.

toxic. It's time for we individuals to choose what we do with our own

:50:49.:50:53.

bodies. The bodies that we have been given in this lifetime, and to hear

:50:54.:51:00.

-- heal the wounds that have been created by thousands of years of

:51:01.:51:03.

violence, exile and shame. We're joined now by Tim Booth,

:51:04.:51:15.

and by the Reverend Sally Hitchiner, she's

:51:16.:51:18.

the chaplain at Brunel University. Welcome to both of you. Tim, tell us

:51:19.:51:26.

a bit about your upbringing. You came from a fairly religious home.

:51:27.:51:33.

Yes, church every week, at boarding school, church every day. This was

:51:34.:51:42.

Protestantism, and the kind of pride that in our lineage was John

:51:43.:51:50.

Wesley. So you have been steeped in religion. I have been stewed in it.

:51:51.:51:56.

Has that put you off? Is that what led you to believe that religion has

:51:57.:52:02.

done more harm than good? I don't think I say religion has done more

:52:03.:52:06.

harm than good, it's not a statement I would use. I would say that the

:52:07.:52:13.

ethics of Christ are quite brilliant. Forgiveness, helping the

:52:14.:52:18.

disadvantaged, but the church that got built upon it by men, the

:52:19.:52:26.

patriarch of became corrupt very quickly and resulted in huge amounts

:52:27.:52:33.

of control and violence. The historical aspect of the church, it

:52:34.:52:37.

is appalling. It is appalling. It's got better as Christianity has lots

:52:38.:52:42.

of -- lost its power. I would say that has been a benefit to

:52:43.:52:44.

Christianity and society. I wouldn't see it as a negative, that waning.

:52:45.:52:49.

But there has been too much oppression and too much oppression

:52:50.:52:56.

on women. Do you agree with that? That sexuality has been oppressed by

:52:57.:52:59.

the church and it is written with guilt and shame? That has been a

:53:00.:53:04.

question in the church, there is no denying it, especially of women and

:53:05.:53:06.

other vulnerable groups through history. This is not a problem of

:53:07.:53:10.

religion, it's a problem of humanity in general. If we look at any

:53:11.:53:15.

government or system power throughout history there have always

:53:16.:53:19.

been abuses. If we think about the 20th century, it's generally the

:53:20.:53:24.

atheists who have been the strongest abusers of others, the great regimes

:53:25.:53:28.

of the 20th century. The really important thing for me is not what

:53:29.:53:36.

has happened so far, but what we do now. How can we a difference now?

:53:37.:53:40.

The fact there are 280 churches that run night shelters, and groups that

:53:41.:53:49.

provide food banks motivated from their religion. Only yesterday

:53:50.:53:54.

Manchester Cathedral appointed a trans-lesbian activist as a canon in

:53:55.:53:57.

their Cathedral. I think there is so much good happening, and I think

:53:58.:54:01.

it's a one-sided approach to have a report like that that only

:54:02.:54:06.

highlights the negative aspects that religion is bringing and does not

:54:07.:54:08.

highlight the human problem behind it. But you do accept that the

:54:09.:54:14.

problems raised by Tim exist when talking about issues of people 's

:54:15.:54:19.

personal behaviour? Whether it is about sexual issues, abortion, AIDS,

:54:20.:54:24.

these are big moral issues, and Tim, in your mind, I presume, you

:54:25.:54:27.

think the church has tried to dictate how people should behave,

:54:28.:54:31.

and if they behave differently, they are wrong. In the time of age you

:54:32.:54:36.

cannot buy a condom in Ireland. Assisted suicide, people who are

:54:37.:54:43.

needing it, in a great deal of pain, but a whole stigma around

:54:44.:54:46.

suicide exists which is kind of a religious echo through the culture.

:54:47.:54:53.

I'm more concerned about the subtle echoes rather than the actual more

:54:54.:54:59.

obvious ones. Obviously Sally comes from a more liberal aspect of the

:55:00.:55:04.

church that I applaud. I'm a big fan of Desmond Tutu and his speeches on

:55:05.:55:10.

forgiveness, so I'm not against aspects of the church at all, I'm

:55:11.:55:15.

against the intolerant imposition. As a Catholic, what do you say? I

:55:16.:55:22.

grew up where everything was an occasion of sin. I sometimes wonder

:55:23.:55:28.

how I managed to breed, but I'm glad I did. I'm a fellow traveller with

:55:29.:55:31.

the Anglicans, I love the Anglican Church. But the me, I understand why

:55:32.:55:37.

you have done this -- but for me. I have some feeling for you. For me,

:55:38.:55:41.

the liberating bit of the faith is the beatitude, the best copy ever

:55:42.:55:48.

written. As an injunction on how to live life, it transcends everything.

:55:49.:55:53.

But that is the core of the faith for me and I'm in no way diminishing

:55:54.:55:57.

your feelings which you have been very candid in expressing. But the

:55:58.:56:00.

Christian morality that comes through the beatitude is, I think,

:56:01.:56:06.

extraordinary. It is as vivid now as when Jesus uttered it. So, for me, I

:56:07.:56:11.

have some sympathy, but that's the sticking point. A fairly

:56:12.:56:17.

hard-hitting film and you said some poignant things but we can't discuss

:56:18.:56:20.

any more as we run out of time. Thank you ever so much. Some

:56:21.:56:26.

important news coming out of Frankfurt and the European Central

:56:27.:56:30.

bank. It's cut the main interest rate to 0.15%. You might think you

:56:31.:56:36.

can't get lower than that, well, you can. It has cut another rate called

:56:37.:56:42.

the discount rate which banks get by lodging money with the ECB to -0.1%.

:56:43.:56:48.

This is unprecedented in European monetary policy and it means if you

:56:49.:56:53.

are a financial institution, you lodge money with the ECB, you will

:56:54.:56:57.

have to pay the ECB for the right to lodge money there. And the bank is

:56:58.:57:02.

trying to confront what it now has been forced to realise is the

:57:03.:57:04.

biggest problem facing the Eurozone, which is the deflationary

:57:05.:57:10.

trap the most economies are in with prices collapsing. It's trying to

:57:11.:57:15.

stoke up monetary policy to get the banks to lend again and to get a bit

:57:16.:57:18.

more inflation into the system will stop there will be a lot more of

:57:19.:57:20.

that on the one o'clock news. Forget the Oscars,

:57:21.:57:24.

forget the BAFTAS. Last night saw The Parliamentary

:57:25.:57:26.

Internet, Communications and As you can imagine it was

:57:27.:57:28.

a star-studded event and tickets were harder to come by than a signed

:57:29.:57:37.

copy of Peter's latest book. The "Local Yokel" Award for the MP

:57:38.:57:40.

who has mentioned their constituency the most on Twitter went to Labour

:57:41.:57:49.

Walthamstow MP Stella Creasy. She's tweeted 43,400 times in total

:57:50.:57:55.

and she's mentioned her constituency I hope the people

:57:56.:57:58.

of Walthamstow are grateful. Perhaps not surprisingly

:57:59.:58:04.

James Wharton, the Tory MP who tried to take the EU

:58:05.:58:05.

Referendum Bill through Parliament, He's gone from very few to

:58:06.:58:09.

nearly 5,000 followers. You might think the Green Party's

:58:10.:58:17.

one MP might have talked most about green issues on Twitter, but no,

:58:18.:58:21.

it was Greg Barker the minister for climate change who pipped the Green

:58:22.:58:24.

MP Caroline Lucas to the post. Greg Barker's tweeted 186 times

:58:25.:58:30.

on green matters this year. And the "Most Mentions"

:58:31.:58:37.

Award was won by the Scottish He was mentioned 2,300

:58:38.:58:40.

times last year in tweets. I'm sure some were even

:58:41.:58:57.

complimentary. We have 45 seconds, coming from the glitzy, all-night

:58:58.:59:01.

party, Pete Wishart, why did you win? I just want to thank my mother,

:59:02.:59:07.

all of those who supported me, my goldfish, and particularly my

:59:08.:59:10.

Twitter followers. More MPs are involved in this and I think it is

:59:11.:59:16.

great to recognise this and celebrate the fact we are now there.

:59:17.:59:21.

Do you enjoy it? Aren't you worried you might put your foot in it? There

:59:22.:59:26.

is always that danger and it has happened to several of us along the

:59:27.:59:31.

years, but it's a great way to communicate. You can get a story out

:59:32.:59:36.

to thousands very quickly. Like your own press wire service. Well,

:59:37.:59:40.

congratulations. Sorry it has been so short, blame the European Central

:59:41.:59:47.

bank. I will do. Always. The one o'clock news is starting on BBC One

:59:48.:59:48.

now. I'll be on BBC One tonight with the

:59:49.:59:51.

longest-ever This Week, it's our version of the Longest Day, starting

:59:52.:59:55.

with Hank Marvin, Kate Williams, Michael Portillo, Diane Abbott,

:59:56.:59:58.

Andrew Rawnsley and Miranda Green, before a change of guests

:59:59.:00:00.

and we settle down and wait And I'll be back here again

:00:01.:00:03.

at noon tomorrow when we'll work out

:00:04.:00:09.

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn discuss the Queen's Speech with cabinet minister Andrew Lansley and are joined by the lead singer of James, Tim Booth, who gives his view on the impact of organised religion on society.


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