09/07/2014 Daily Politics


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Morning folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics.


Elizabeth Butler-Sloss is to lead a wide-ranging inquiry into


allegations of historic child abuse among the political establishment.


But is the 80-year-old Baroness and former appeal court judge


Labour's deputy leader Harriet Harman attacks Gordon Brown


for failing to make her deputy prime minister.


Was Mr Brown sexist or Ms Harman just not up to the job?


They are hoping some of the stardust rubs off.


Is it time for Prime Ministers stopped sucking up to celebrities?


We take a look at why politicians should always


Did you set it up like that? That is the kind of thing that you would do!


LAUGHTER Did you set it


up like that? That is of course, prime Minister's


questions at midday. And with us for the duration,


two politicians who we couldn't find in embarrassing photos, and


believe me we've looked, Education Minister Liz Truss and shadow


Attorney General Emily Thornberry. First this morning, her


appointment was announced just yesterday but there are already


calls as the chair of a wide-ranging


inquiry into allegations of child Her brother Michael Havers was


Attorney General at the time some of these allegations of child abuse


were being made in the early 1980s. The campaigning Labour MP Simon


Dancuzk told our correspondent Norman Smith that she was the


wrong person to lead the inquiry. -- Simon Danczuk. I think that she


could reconsider her position, I find it surprisingly neither she nor


the government realise that her relationship with her brother was


connected to Geoffrey Dickens and all of this palaver around it. It


beggars belief that it had not been considered in the first place. The


Home Office stressed that she is a figure of unemployed -- she is a


figure of unimpeachable integrity and that overshadows any kind of


family affiliation. Yes, but she sits in the House of Lords, some of


the people accused of this kind of abuse may sit alongside her and that


is not look good to the wider public.


Is it right for an independent enquiry into historic sexual abuse


at Westminster and other parts of the establishment to be led by an


80-year-old stole wort of the establishment? This is a decision


which has been made by the Home Secretary, Theresa May, she is a


woman of unimpeachable integrity, former High Court judge, she has a


lot of experience into looking into these issues. She is also a member


of the establishment. Age should not come into it, it is how good you are


and how capable you are of getting a job done. She's extremely


experienced, she has worked on human trafficking, and it has been judged


she will be the best person to do the job. When she sits in the House


of Lords she's not sitting beside people who are into human


trafficking but she could well be sitting beside people against whom


allegations will be made. It is not right to question her integrity as a


former High Court judge, she has been chosen by the Home Secretary,


someone who is right to do the job. She will be ably assisted by a


number of other people on the enquiry, they will have full access


to all of the files. Theresa May has made it clear that no stone will be


left unturned, such a critical issue, so important to keep our


children safe. Questioning the integrity of Baroness Butler Sloss


is not a good way to start. What is your position? When people ask for


independent enquiries, they often want a judge to lead it, it is


judges do come with a feeling of trust from the government. She used


to be in the Court of Appeal. She is the chair of a major child abuse


enquiry in the past. Yes, but, her brother was Lord favours, Attorney


General, and if you remember, in fact, Geoffrey Dickens gave a couple


of dossiers, one to the Home Office and the other to the DPP, two


copies. The DPP copy has also gone missing! -- Lord have is. -- Lord


Havers. I do not question her integrity, but I'm surprised that


the Home Office did not look at this because I think they have put her in


a very difficult position. I think that she has been chosen by the Home


Secretary, Home Secretary will have looked at the various candidates


available. As Emily points out, she has a great deal of experience in


this area. Somebody who has the long history of working in areas like


family law is bound to have known some of the people involved, there


is a large establishment. As I say, I think she is absolutely committed


to making sure that the enquiry is conducted with integrity. There is a


motocross politics and government to once and for all open up areas that


previously... Does it worry you that this Lady's brother was Attorney


General at the time the allegations were originally made and nothing was


done about those allegations. The Home Secretary will have taken that


into account when making a decision. Might surprise some people. She will


have looked at who was the best person to I know Elizabeth Butler


Sloss, I think she's a woman incredible ability and integrity,


I'm sure that is why she has been chosen by the Home Secretary. May I


say one other thing, it has been said that the Lord try to stop the


naming of Peter Heymann in the House of Commons, that is another issue.


Peter Heymann turned out to be a notorious paedophile. It was covered


up for years and years. Even when his secret flat in Notting Hill was


discovered, with apparently horrible things in it, he was only ticked


off. Letters, letters from all kinds of people. Exactly. The idea has


been floated that it should be made illegal for institutions like


schools and hospitals not to report abuse, what do you say? We welcome


this, it is something we have been thinking about for a long time on


the Labour side, I have had discussions with the NSPCC, I know


that they have been against this until recently. I welcome the change


of heart. Do you know what, I think there were terrible things that came


out of this, one of the things which really got to me was when one young


girl, one woman who had been a young girl, was told by a nurse to keep


her eyes closed, to keep her eyes closed and pretend that she was


asleep so they Jimmy Savile would not prey upon her. And yet that


nurse did not report back to the police. There are pros and cons to


mandatory reporting, that is something we are considering, we are


open to the idea. You have opposed it in the past. We have posted in


the past because of the issue of whether we up with over reporting,


whether we end up with social services becoming overwhelmed? Do we


end up with not actually dealing with the real cases we need to deal


with, and do we end up putting children in more danger? One of the


countries that has used mandatory reporting, Australia, and the


evidence is very next. America, Australia, Canada, Northern Ireland.


Nobody questions the desire to hold perpetrators to justice and hold


them to account, the question is, how best to do it? We are looking at


it, and we think, we think the case is very closely balanced, but we are


prepared to speak with experts. What all of these various enquiries are


showing is there is a serious issue here, we need to address that and we


need to think again. I personally think that if someone is in loco


parentis, if somebody has been given the trust of a child, and they see


their child being abused, if a child abuse complains about abuse, we


should look at whether or not they are morally obliged to a port,


whether it should go further than that. -- morally obliged to report.


Do you really expect whips to open their black books, all of the


secrets that are in there? My understanding is that the


Conservative whips along with whips of other parties have agreed to open


up their books and that is right. We need to look at this. I presume it


will be restricted to just child abuse issues. Presumably, the idea


that there is a whip in the 1980s he said, "we know about them


interfering with little boys, we hold it against them..." He said it


on the record and he said it laughing. That is extraordinary.


Labour's deputy leader, Harriet Harman, has said she


expects Ed Miliband to give her the job of deputy Prime Minister


if Labour win an overall majority in next year's general election.


In a speech last night she hit out at Gordon Brown for failing to


give her the job when she first became deputy leader back in 2007.


"Imagine my surprise", she said, "when having won a hard-fought


election to succeed John Prescott as deputy leader of the Labour Party, I


discovered that I was not to succeed him as deputy prime minister."


"If one of the men had won the deputy leadership would that have


But Harman's comments were swiftly rebuffed by Gordon Brown's


"It's utter bilge from Harriet", he said, "done to make her attack on


Dave to look non-partisan." "As every man and woman who ever


worked for him could attest, Gordon judged people on only one thing:


Later, speaking to Laura Kuenssberg on Newsnight, Ms Harman


indicated that she expected Ed Miliband to give her the job:


I do expect to be Deputy Prime Minister when, as I hope, we win the


election with a majority next year. And if that comes to pass and you do


not become the deputy promised, will that make Ed Miliband a sexist? That


is too many conjectures, I hope that we will win the election and I hope


to be deputy promised but I hope that there will be more women MPs


delivering more equality for women out in the country. That is


important. I am a -- I am a huge fan of Harriet


Harman, everybody knows that, Labour has pushed the agenda in terms of


women. We should be judged on our policies. Was Gordon Brown sexist


for not the role deputy promised? If I was Gordon Brown, I would have


given her the role in a shot, she is an extraordinary woman with a great


deal to offer, she is not backward in coming forward! We have a lot of


women like that and the Labour Party, almost half the Shadow


Cabinet are women who are like that, I put my hands up, I am one of the


bolshie women in the Shadow Cabinet. We are not silenced. Despite Gordon


Brown, do you think Gordon Brown made a decision based upon sexism,


if he had made a decision based upon sexism,


if he won the debris do leadership, made a decision based upon sexism,


if he won the debris would Alan Johnson have been deputy promised? I


was a backbencher at the time, I was not in the inner circle, I just know


what I think: Harriet Harman is amazing and I would have made her


Deputy Prime Minister. In the end it is up to leaders to decide, and as


for the next election, we have got to win that first. If she wins the


election it will be up to Ed to decide. You have not said if he was


all was not sexist, and if he was sexist, he did not think she was up


to the job. I have always been a fan of hers and always supported hers.


-- her. In the end, what matters is what we do as a party, particularly


when we are in government in racing to women. If Gordon Brown did not


think that she was up to the job, was it right to make -- was it right


not to make a deputy promised, because that would have been wrong.


The most important thing is that women listen to and we policies, you


can see when women are not listened to in government, you look at, for


example, in my brief, the way in which violence against women and


girls has been downgraded until recently in my opinion in terms of


prosecutions. Six pimps were prosecuted last year! That sort of


thing shows that this is not front and centre, this is not on the


table. This is not about Harriet Harman... I take your point... Let's


put Harman... I take your point... Let's


this in the context of the main political party, and compare us with


the Tories. We are light years ahead. Really, one could have


listened to the interview and said that she is making gear to Ed


Miliband that she should be made deputy promised. Should Ed Miliband


promised her the role now, the ticket is, Ed Miliband, Harriet


Harman, she will be the deputy prime ministers. Know, the ticket is


Labour needs to win should you promise. At will make the decisions,


Ed is very much in charge. -- Ed will make the decisions. Half the


Shadow Cabinet are women and we have policies which are developed early


because we are there. She is the second Labour woman who has come out


and said that Gordon Brown was responsible for windowdressing.


Caroline Flint. Yes, she was the first one, in the Labour Party there


is a culture of putting women in positions and not and being


tokenistic. Really, come on! The Secretary of State was sacked


because she was too old and replaced by somebody who was older!


now? There are three. Is it good enough? No, it is not good enough.


We have got more women than ever before. There is a pipeline, women


need to get experience at a ministerial level and they need to


build up in a meritocratic process by which we can succeed. If you look


at Ed Miliband's back office, if you look at who is controlling his


operator, it is not women. They are in the Shadow Cabinet, but not in


the back room. What about you? Are you expecting a job? I am very much


enjoying the job I am doing. I have the responsibility for raising


standards in schools, to make sure our children get the best education


possible. It is hugely satisfying. If you got offered a Cabinet job,


you would not see it as window dressing? It is up to the Prime


Minister. In the Conservative Party we have robust debates and if you


look at the promotion to the culture secretary, he has been put in that


job because he is brilliant. You are not happy with the number of women.


We want more women MPs on the Conservative Party site. We want to


open up what politics and we want to bring more women through the


pipeline. He has his bag carriers who are always his man, David


Cameron. With Labour two women in the previous Labour Cabinet Bove


said Gordon Brown did windowdressing. If you read Alistair


Campbell's diaries, you can see what a masculine Government the Labour


Government work. I do not think they had real power, those women. Let's


see if in the reshuffle Ed Miliband promises Harriet Harman Deputy Prime


Minister. They went from outstanding to be


in special measures in just a few years,


so did Ofsted get it spectacularly wrong in its verdict on


the Birmingham schools at the centre This morning the chief inspector


of schools and head of Ofsted, Sir Michael Wilshaw, has been


grilled by MPs on whether his inspectors failed to spot a creeping


Islamification of these schools. Some previously outstanding schools


have got into difficult problems within relatively short time scales.


Has that made you reassess about the previous attitude towards the


inspection of outstanding schools? Yes, we do really inspect


outstanding schools where there is a dip in performance and where our


risk assessment processes trigger an inspection. I think we need to


repeat this. These schools once judged to be outstanding decline


rapidly. We inspect schools once in every five years and in the case of


academies, once every seven. We are going to change that. There will be


more frequent inspections. But even within those shorter inspection


schedules, schools can slip. How was it that these schools went from


outstanding to being put into special measures in the space of a


few years? Parkview in Birmingham went from outstanding to inadequate


in two years. First of all, Sir Michael has done a fantastic job of


chief inspector of schools. He is overhauling the inspection system


and is bringing on training and more high-quality inspectors and is


bringing in-house companies that used to run inspections. What he


admitted this morning at the select committee was that things that were


going on in those schools that should have been noticed by a


inspectors were not noticed. Why did they go from outstanding to special


measures in such a small space of time? Because the initial inspection


that took place did not recognise things that were going on in the


school that were problematic. Such as? The overseas visits. They did


not know about them? They did, but they did not recognise it was an


issue. They did not think taking Muslim kids to medical on school


funds was an issue? Correct and that is why Sir Michael has said that was


an issue and that is why the inspection has been corrected this


time around. He has admitted the inspections were not conducted as


they ought to have been earlier on and that is hence the change in the


judgement. But we all know there are issues across the board, there are


lessons to be learned. What has been going on in these schools is not


right. Children have not been taught British values, they have not learnt


those shared values. I want to find out why they seem to go wrong so


quickly. The man you just praise, Sir Michael Wilshaw, in March this


year he was suggesting a light touch inspection of schools that had


already been categorised as outstanding. That will not happen


now, will it? The policy has changed since these investigations. He was


suggesting they change the policy to have only light touch inspection of


schools that were outstanding. Given what was made as standing in


Birmingham, I am suggesting this will not be taken on board. That is


what he is saying. So he was wrong? Yes, and he has changed his view on


that issue, just as the view has been changed on no notice


inspections. We are introducing no notice inspections to make sure


schools doing those wrong things are caught out. He suggested these


schools, quote, in a speech to the Association of School and College


leaders, that these schools should no longer be subject to full and


routine inspections in the way they are now. If we had gone down that


road, we would never have found out what was happening because they were


outstanding schools. That is right. He was wrong. There are two issues.


First of all is the quality of inspectors and inspections. Those


inspectors who went in in 2012 should have spotted things they did


not spot. That is being addressed through better training. The second


is how do we monitor outstanding schools? That is where he is saying


there needs to be a change in approach to recognise it is not just


about fantastic performance in league tables, but it is also about


are those schools teaching British values? We introduced new guidelines


this week which Ofsted will be looking at in their inspection


framework. We have changed because we recognise there is an issue.


Teachers and parents started raising concerns about some of these schools


in Birmingham as early as 2002. Your party remained in power for eight


years after that. Why did Labour do nothing about it? We want to


introduce a local person... I am asking you why did you not do


anything about it? It has been accepted there were mistakes made.


Why? I do not know, but I know mistakes have been made. What we


want to do, and we want the Conservatives to pick it up and do


it, not because it is our idea, but to have someone locally whose


responsibility it is to take it over. Whether you are a free school


or an academy or whatever, you will be answerable. You cannot run all


these plethora of new schools and academies like this. That body was


meant to be Birmingham City Council. When these issues first


arose all of these schools were under Birmingham council control,


and many still are, and yet no action was taken. The school in the


photograph is an academy and it is answerable to Whitehall. I am not


making a party political point. It was a handful of academies that were


failing. We did not want all schools to be made independent and


answerable to Michael Gove in Whitehall, it does not work. Many of


the schools in Birmingham are answerable to Birmingham City


Council and it is clear it has questions to answer. Somebody


locally responsible for standards up and down the country that we can


make sure... That is Birmingham City Council's job. The council should


take the responsibility for academies and free schools as well?


They should take responsibility for their maintained schools. She is


talking about how do you regulate the academies and the free schools?


It cannot all be done by Ofsted or Whitehall. She has come up with a


proposal. What is your reaction? She is not acknowledging many of these


schools are still maintained schools under local authority control. They


are answerable to the Secretary of State and the Secretary of State has


taken action. I thought the Tory party really believed the man and


woman in Whitehall does not know best. That used to be your mantra.


You are now saying that the man and woman in Whitehall do know best. We


are creating regional schools commissioners who will have


delegated powers of the Secretary of State. What does that mean? It


sounds like your proposal! Let me tell you the difference. That is


good news. The commissioners' policy involves recreating local policy


bureaucracy at local level. There is not quite a meeting of minds there.


Westminster is abuzz with feverish speculation. Who is going up and who


is going down? Leave her alone. It is all people are talking about in


Westminster's tearooms. But making an educated guess is a mug's game.


You can see where this is going. Some might say reshuffles merely


replace old mugs with new ones. If you want to clear out your old


mugs, you just have to enter guess the year.


Let's see if you can remember when this happens. And all over the world


countless millions are awaiting to take part in spirit in the last


journey of his Majesty King George V. # When the dawn flames in the


sky, my love moves. #. # You ain't given no money, you


can't buy no clothes to wear... # Keep your feet of my doorstep...


To the new sovereign and Queen Elizabeth and the little lady who is


heir to the throne, long life and all happiness.


To be in with a chance of winning, send your answer to our e-mail


address. You can see the full terms and conditions on the website. The


clue is the funeral of the King which sparked a constitutional


crisis. Don't give it away. It is coming up to midday. Prime


Minister's Questions is on its way, the penultimate one until the summer


recess. If you would like to comment on proceedings, and please try and


be polite, send us an e-mail. Or you can tweet your thought using the


hash tag. We may read some out if they are nice and literate and not


nasty. Speaking of not nasty, Nick Robinson is here. You did not say


not nice! nasty. Speaking of not nasty, Nick


Robinson is here. You did What is going to happen? What is the leader


of the opposition going to go on today? It would be odd if he did not


pick up on the child abuse enquiry, but my instinct is it would be odd


if he did not pick up on whether Baroness Butler-Sloss is the right


person for the enquiry. If I were Ed Miliband, I would be tempted to push


him on that. Last week you were talking about Ed Miliband's claim


that David Cameron got his figures on waiting times in the NHS. A bit


tempting to quote the House of Commons library who said the Prime


Minister produced simplistic data and withdrew it when it was


suggested it was a very partial description. But they then reissued


it. We all regard what the House of Commons library says as gospel. All


they did was change the commentary, they did not change the data. They


continued to save the data was not possibly the best data to give you


an indication of waiting times. They took away the other explosive,


political language. There was criticism of Ed Miliband...


I'm sure that the whole house would like to join me in paying tribute to


all of those involved in the start of the Tour de France in Britain,


this event showcased the best of Yorkshire and the whole that Britain


has two offer. I was delighted to see such incredible support


throughout the race. This morning I had the meetings with ministerial


colleagues and others and I shall have further such meetings later


today in addition to my duties in the house. We join with the good


news that the parameter has just relayed. Northern Ireland equality


commission is threatening legal action against the family-owned


bakery, because they would not print a political message on a cake. The


requested message was completely against the company 's Christian


values, does the Prime Minister agree that so-called equality is now


being viewed by many as an oppressive threat to


agree that so-called equality is now being viewed by many as an religious


freedom and does he further agree that such freedoms should be


protected by the introduction of a conscience clause? I'm not aware of


the specific case that the honourable gentleman raises, I shall


go away and have a look at it, but I do think a commitment to equality in


terms of racial equality, terms of equality to those of different


sexes, able who have disabilities, or indeed tolerance and equality of


people who may have a different sexuality, all of that is a very


important part of being British. Mrs Caroline Spelman. CHEERING


. Order, I would like the question to be heard, I would like all


questions to be heard. With the Prime Minister welcomed the


president MP and quiet of the German parliament, who has come to sing a


joint concert with our Parliament choir, in Westminster Hall tonight,


to commemorate the Centenary of the First World War, and the third


Centenary of the monarchy. I would be very happy to welcome this German


choir, I suspect after last nights results they will be in rather good


voice! LAUGHTER In a serious moment, it is important


that we commemorate the key battles and Armistice Day, as we commemorate


the key battles and Armistice Day, has become up in Britain we will


mark it inappropriate ways. As we come up. -- as we come up. It is


important that we learn the lessons of the conflict and we commemorate


those that fail. Ed Miliband. I would like to join the Prime


Minister in paying tribute to the way that the Tour de France was made


such a brilliant success for Britain. I was proud to be watching


it on the streets, as I know that he was, I was in Leeds, with hundreds


of thousands of people lining the streets. All of us have been


horrified by the instances of child abuse that have been uncovered, and


the further allegations that have been made, and all of the victims of


child abuse are not just owed justice but an apology that it took


so long for their cries to be heard. Does the Prime Minister agree that


all enquiries, including by the police and by those he has set up,


must go wherever the evidence leads them in whatever institution of the


country, including our own, to get at what happened? Pro Minister. I


absolutely agree with the right honourable gentleman, child abuse is


a despicable crime and the victims lived with the horror for the rest


of their lives, it is vital that whether it is the two enquiries


announced by the Home Secretary or indeed vital police enquiries that


are being carried out, that no stone is left unturned. The horror of the


Jimmy Savile and Rolf Harris cases just show what people were able to


get away with. It was almost an occasion that they were committing


crimes in plain sight and it took far too long to get to the bottom of


what happened and for justice to be done, that is absolutely what this


government is looking to achieve. On the issue of 114 missing files from


the Home Office, can you clarify when ministers were first informed


and what action they took? Do you agree that the review by Peter


Wanless cannot simply be into the original review, but it must seek to


discover what happened to the files, who knew what, and whether


information was covered up, and this review must also have full


investigative powers? First of all, Parliamentary question last October


that revealed the points about the 2013 enquiry, what I would say: It


is absolutely vital that Peter Wanless, who I think is an excellent


record in this regard, and will carry out the review in absolutely


the right way, that he has all of the powers that he needs. Let's be


clear, if he wants more powers, if the enquiry wants to have a greater


power and ability, then he can absolutely ask for it. It must go


exacting where the evidence leads. We are determined to get to the


bottom of what happened. The most important thing in relation to these


files, is to clarify what happens to them and why they went missing. I


welcome the overarching enquiry, which has been set up by the Home


Secretary. Can the prime ministers say more about what the terms of


reference about that enquiry will be? Will he consider a very sensible


recommendations made today by Peter Wanless, around making the covering


up of abuse a criminal offence, and ensuring there is an obligation on


institutions to report abuse where it can. Taking the second point


first, can we change the law -- should we change the law so that


there is a requirement to report and make it a criminal offence not to


report? The government is looking at that and both reviews will be able


to examine this particular point and advise us accordingly, it may well


be time to take that kind of step forward. On the issue of the terms


of reference of the wider lessons learned review, we are discussing


those at the moment, we are happy to take suggestion from other parties


in this house. The main aim as I have said before, you have got a


number of enquiries being carried out into specific hospitals


including the saddle enquiry, you have the enquiry being taken place


inside the BBC, and other enquiries into Welsh children's homes. --


including the Jimmy Savile enquiry. What is vital is that government


land all of the lessons of the review, and where I think the


Elizabeth Butler Sloss review can help is by having a panel of experts


who can advise us about all of the things that need to change in these


institutions. For instance, the church, the BBC, the NHS, but also,


if necessary, in this place and government as well. I welcome what


he has said, clearly cultural change is absolutely crucial. Turning to


another matter, the health service, last week the Prime Minister said


the waiting times in accident and emergency had gone down but within


24-hour House of Commons library had called him out. Average waiting


times have gone up. Will he now correct the record? What I said last


week at prime ministers questions last week is absolutely right and...


SHOUTING If he goes on the website of the


organisation... If you remember, at the end of prime Minster 's


questions there were some points of order, and I said very specifically


that the number of people waiting longer than 18, 26 and 52 weeks to


begin treatment are lower than they were at any time under the last


government. That was directly contradicted by the Shadow Health


Secretary, and I want to give the figures to the house now so that


people can see that I got my facts right. SHOUTING


April, 2010,, 217,000 people waiting over 18 weeks. It is now 186,000,


that is Lola! March, 2010, 92,000 people waiting 26 weeks, it is now


59,000, Lola. In terms of waiting 52 weeks, 52 weeks for treatment, in


April, 2010, 21,000 people waiting that long, now it is 510, that is


Lola! -- that is lower. Very clear that he does not want to


talk about accident and emergency, where he was called out, let's go to


the common-sense definition of what a waiting time is... As always, does


not matter how long it takes, the question will be heard. The brain,


the yelling, the calculated heckling may as well cease, because we will


simply go for as long as is necessary.


It is not how long you wait to be assessed, it is the time between


arriving at the accident and emergency and leaving! The number of


people waiting more than four hours is at its highest level in a decade,


why does he not just admit the truth, which everybody in the


country knows: People are waiting longer in accident and emergency.


The figures I gave last week are correct and published by the health


and social care information Centre, the average waiting time, 77


minutes, when the Shadow Health Secretary was Health Secretary the


average waiting time was now 30 minutes. We can trade statistics


across the floor of the house, and I am absolutely clear the health


service is getting better, but there is a reason it is getting better, it


is because we have taken a couple of big strategic decisions: We said put


more money into the NHS, they said that was irresponsible. We said cut


the bureaucracy in the NHS, they wanted to keep. -- the average


waiting time was 77 minutes when the Shadow Health Secretary was Health


Secretary. Now the average waiting time is 30 minutes.


CHEERING I would far rather have the Shadow


Health Secretary than there are Health Secretary any day of the


week! And I will tell you, I will tell you, I will tell you what has


happened in the health service, I will tell you what has happened in


the health service: Top-down reorganisation that nobody wanted


and nobody voted for, and it has diverted billions of pounds away


from patient care. The contrast that we see is between the complacent


claims of the Prime Minister, and people 's everyday experience.


People are spending longer in accident and emergency and hospital


accident and emergency is have missed therefore our target for the


last 50 weeks in a row. -- accident and emergencys. He pretends things


are getting better but patients, NHS staff and the public can see it is


getting worse right before their eyes. He still has to defend a man


who presided over the mid Staffordshire disgrace, standards of


patient care were so bad that patients were drinking out of dirty


vases, because of standards in labour's NHS. This is the point: The


reason we have been able to cut bureaucracy and the reason we have


been able to put more money into the NHS is because we have taken


difficult decisions. -- Labour's. Including having a 1% pay cap in the


NHS, which Labour said they would support but this week they have


decided that they will back strikes instead. Mr Speaker, I have here, I


have here the Labour briefing on strikes. SHOUTING


It says this, do we support strikes? No. Will we condemn


strikes? No. There we have it, that is his leadership summed up in one


go, have they got a plan for the NHS? No! Have they got a plan for


the economy? No SHOUTING Issey remotely up to the job? No!


Is the Prime Minister aware that British airways are to cease the


link between Aberdeen and London city, in favour of increased


services to already well served outpost of last go, Edinburgh and


Dublin? Will he support the campaign to maintain this language is vital


for business economy of northern Scotland. I am happy to look into


this issue, it is an absolutely vital service, particularly when you


consider how strong the economy in north-east Scotland is performing


with North Sea oil and gas. I'm happy to look at the issue with him.


Jonathan Edwards. Tomorrow I shall be alongside striking teachers,


firefighters and nurses, the backbone of local communities. His


reported plans to ban public sector workers from joining their neighbour


are a silent threat to stop people supporting. I have made it clear


that I do not think the strikes are right, I condemn them, it is a pity


we do not have so much clarity on the issue from the party opposite or


indeed from his party. I would like to give one example, the National


union of teachers is proposing a strike based upon a ballot that they


had almost two years ago on a very small turnout of their members.


Really, is it right to continue with this situation when so many


children's education is this situation when so many


children's going to be so badly disrupted?


Speaking on the opposition backbenchers on December nine, 2002,


the prime ministers said "I find the European arrest warrant highly


objectionable. " I still think it is highly objectionable. Does the Prime


Minister? The point I make, we have made a series of changes to the


European arrest warrant, so that you do not have the problem of people


being arrested, for instance, for things which are not a crime in this


country. Question we have got to ask, we have got to achieve this


vast opt out. The head of the civil service says the business case for


universal credit has not been signed off. The Department for Work and


Pensions says it has. Who is telling the truth? The budget for universal


credit has been signed off every year by the Treasury and will


continue to do so. The good news is that next year we will have one in


eight Jobcentre is rolling out universal credit I thought we had


found the party opposite would be in favour of a system that makes work


pay, but they have gone back into the whole of being against every


single welfare change and everything that is getting this country moving.


The safer Internet centre estimates up to 30 websites host UK online


pornography images, another form of sexual abuse. Does the Prime


Minister agree posting such material has to be recognised for what it is?


A criminal, sexual offence against its victims. My honourable friend is


absolutely right. This is an appalling offence and a dreadful


thing for someone to do and it has criminal intent. I am glad she is


championing this caused and looking at the amendment she is suggesting,


I hope to take up this cause. We have to make sure we do far more to


do deal with porn and Internet porn. If the business case for his


universal credit proposals is robust, why is the head of the home


civil service saying he has not signed it off? What has happened is


universal credit has been signed off in each and every year by the


Treasury. I make no apology for the fact we are rolling it out slowly.


We have learned the lesson of the last Labour Government, in which he


played a prominent part, where tax credits were introduced in one go


and was a complete shambles. The Northwest air ambulance has three


helicopters and has flown thousands of missions since 1999, one of which


saved the life of a friend of mine after a car crash. There are 27 such


error services throughout the whole of the United Kingdom. One of them


may become a royal air Ambulance Service. Will he paid tribute to


those who man the helicopters, saving people throughout the


country, and heaped praise on thousands of people who raise funds


every week on wet street corners in the United Kingdom to ensure they


carry on flying and saving lives? My honourable friend is absolutely


right. Our air ambulances provide an invaluable service and we must all


pay to read to the men and women who starve them who often have to


undertake very difficult landings and take-offs to rescue people and


get them to hospital. It is right up and down the country people are


giving charitably to fund these vital services. I am sure the Prime


Minister will agree that dealing with terrorism and violence and a


commitment to a democratic means were fundamental in moving Northern


Ireland forward taking us to where we are today. Will the Prime


Minister agree that in the Northern Ireland of 2014 Republican threats


of violence for political ends must not only be deployed, but that


everyone, and governmental bodies in Northern Ireland and the community,


must stand up against such threats and commit themselves to fundamental


freedoms and supporting democracy and the rule of law? All threats of


violence are unacceptable and should be condemned on all sides. What I


hope we can achieve in the coming weeks, and it will take compromise


and brave decisions on all sides, it is to get the talks process on going


again with commitments from his own party, as well as the DLP and Sinn


Fein, to discuss these things to make progress. If we do not make


progress on this issue, you leave space open for extremists on all


sides of the debate to start pushing their ideas, which would be


unhelpful for the future of Northern Ireland. The long-term economic plan


is working. Unemployment is down a third in the last year and as the


summer approaches, I am walking the boundary of my constituency to


promote the local area. Can I invite him to join me for part of the walk


for a fantastic charity in my constituency? I wish my honourable


friend well and he is making an enticing invitation and I am a big


fan of what the Peak District has to offer. It is notable in his


constituency at the claimant count has fallen by 42% since the election


and the youth claimant count has come down by 39% in the last year.


We are seeing an economic revival and we need to stick to our plans to


get the deficit down, help people with tax cuts, make it easier for


firms to employ people and to reform our welfare and immigration systems.


That is the plan we will stick to and it is delivering. A 62-year-old


man in Eccles, a carer for his wife with Alzheimer's, sought an urgent


GP appointment for her. He was told it would be five weeks to see her


GP, two weeks to see any GP or he could take to the A If this is


the way the NHS tree is the way the NHS trees dementia, does the Prime


Minister not agree Labour's plan to give these patients the right to see


a GP immediately? There are 1000 more GPs today than there were when


I became Prime Minister. We are reintroducing a name to GP for a


frail, elderly people, which Labour got rid of. That is one of the


reasons, combined with the disastrous GP contract that Labour


introduced, there is so much pressure on our accident and


emergency system. We must learn from the mistakes Labour made rather than


repeat them all over again. Is the Prime Minister aware that 16 to


18-year-oldss in Northumberland who may live 15 miles from further


education or 20 miles from high school are facing charges up to


several thousand pounds in charges to get education because the


Labour-controlled council has reversed the support given by the


previous Liberal Democrat administration? Will he deployed


this decision and see what central Government can do to promote fairer


access to education. Responsibility for education and training rests


with local authorities and clearly there is local authority have made


this decision. We have introduced a ?180 million bursary fund to support


the most disadvantaged pupils and that is something his council can


make the most of. But this is another example of the fact that


labour costs you more. Mr Speaker, it is estimated that each day 179


British girls are at risk of being subjected to FGM, joining a total of


170,000 in the United Kingdom who have been cut. Next week he hosts a


summit on this issue. Does he agree with me that FGM is not cultural, it


is criminal? It is not tribal, it is torture. Will he please read the


report of the select committee published next Thursday, implement


it in full so that we can eradicate this horrendous abuse from our


country? Can I commend the honourable gentleman for the work of


the Home Affairs Select Committee has done on this issue. This is a


brutal, appalling practice which should have no place in the world


and certainly no place in Britain and it is appalling that people


living in our country are being subjected to this practice. I will


study the report closely. The whole aim of the conference is to make


sure these two practices of early, enforced marriage and female genital


mutilation are wiped out on our planet. Does my right honourable


friend accept it would be totally unacceptable to have a statutory


limitation on overseas aid without having a similar statutory provision


covering defence expenditure to guarantee our NATO commitments? What


I would say is we are in the happy position of this country of meeting


the 2% spending on defence which NATO members are meant to undertake


and when we hold the NATO conference in Wales in September we should be


encouraging other countries to do the same and to meet some of the new


park that targets for spending on new equipment that can be used in


NATO operations. We can also be proud of the fact we are meeting the


promise we made our spending 0.7% on overseas aid which is saving lives


all over the world. I would not divorce it from our defence spending


because the money we spent in places like Somalia, Nigeria or Pakistan is


about reducing the pressures of asylum and immigration and


terrorism, making our world safer. That is what our defence budget


should be about and it is what our aid budget is about as well.


Conditions like rheumatoid arthritis mean patients can be out of work for


years if they do not get the right treatment and we should look at the


wider benefits rather than the initial cost of that treatment. I


agree. My understanding is that work is carried out and I will look at


the particular condition she raises. Businesses across Lincolnshire


report growing conference that confidence in growing order books,


highly skilled workers benefiting from the tax cuts this Government


has introduced and hard-working apprentices enjoying opportunities


they did not have a few years ago. Does the Prime Minister agree the


Shadow Chancellor's plans of borrowing yet more money, whilst


heaving tax on businesses and making it more expensive for people to hire


workers is an economic scam? We have got to stick to the plan and that


plan involves training young people and we are on track to hit 2 million


apprentices trained under this Government. The worst thing to do


would be to start spending and borrowing and taxing more, which are


the proposals of the opposition. With the Prime Minister explain why


it is the only people who feel there are no problems in the National


Health Service are members of the Conservative Party? What I would say


is every single health system are right across the developed world is


facing huge challenges and pressures. Pressures of an ageing


population, new drugs and treatments coming on stream and the pressures


of children surviving with conditions that need to be treated


throughout their lives. How do we respond? Our response has been to


fund the health service and protected from cars and to reform


the health service so there are more doctors and more nurses. The figures


speak for themselves because you can see more people being treated. 40


million more people are getting GP appointments. It is because we have


taken the difficult decisions Labour have not taken in Wales and that is


why in Wales at UC longer waiting lists and real problems with the


NHS. Should taxpayer money be used to gather information on MPs which


is then retained by a Chief Whip or shredded? If my honourable friend is


referring to the situation that took place in the Welsh assembly which I


was reading about overnight, that seems to be a worrying development.


If he is referring to something else, he could perhaps write to me


and I will get back to him. Would the Prime Minister look into the


case of a young mother in my constituency who has a significant


spinal injury that has left her unable to walk? Her GB has


spinal injury that has left her unable to walk? Her GB referred her


for an urgent appointment with a neurosurgeon. Could the Prime


Minister explain why urgent on his watch means a four-week wait lying


in pain? I will look at the KC raises and I am happy to look at


individual cases, but the figures quoted earlier demonstrate when you


look at people waiting 18 weeks, 26 weeks or 52 weeks, they are lower


now than at any time under the last Labour Government. I am very happy


to look at the individual case. Is the Prime Minister aware that since


2012 when he made his promise to increase access to innovative


radiotherapy for cancer patients, the number has decreased in some


hospitals by 70% and state-of-the-art machines are lying


idle because NHS England will not allow doctors to use them? Can I ask


him to meet with me and other campaigners like Lawrence Dallaglio


to discuss this scandal? I read the report that Lawrence Dallaglio was


referring to over the weekend and I am happy to meet with her and him to


discuss this. We have introduced the Cancer Drugs Fund which is also for


innovative treatment. I know there have been changes in the way


radiotherapy has been carried out and new technology that is being


used, which may be part of the explanation. Jobs growth Wales has


been a huge success in tackling youth unemployment outperforming


similar schemes across the United Kingdom. Will the Prime Minister


join me in congratulating Welsh businesses and enterprises, the


Welsh Government and the young people of Wales who have made this a


success? In doing so he can end his agenda of attacking Wales at every


opportunity and he might even get a welcome in the hillside! I want to


do everything I can to support economic recovery in Wales and that


is why, for instance, in September when the NATO conference comes to


Wales, an initiative launched by me, there will be a very strong welcome


in the valleys and this will be the first time that a serving American


president has ever been to Wales. We are doing everything we can to help


business in Wales employ more people and grow the economy.


On Monday I hosted a meeting in Birmingham to mark the agreement of


a great deal which will see over ?350 million invested in Birmingham


and Solihull. It will help to create 19,000 jobs and generate up to ?110


million from local partners and private investment. With employment


is just 1.5% and down by over 28,000 across the whole region, does this


not demonstrate the model bolstered by those growth funds is working?


But how does my right honourable friend plan to build on this success


and encourage the most ambitious local enterprise partnerships to


promote the local economy still further? As I said at the meeting,


the growth deal is a very big step forward for Birmingham and the West


Midlands and will result in more jobs and investment. It will see new


railway stations and transport links built, but we need to be more


ambitious in terms of the money we need to find in central Government


to support these schemes. I also hope local councils will look at


every piece of unused Brownfield land and we will look at every piece


of extra development they put on the table. It is offering this region


just ?10 ahead 37 days before the election and it is too late. You can


tell the difference between this gentleman and any other issues. He


might want to explain why the leader of Birmingham City Council, the


Labour leader, said this is good news for Birmingham. A number of


major projects will be accelerated. Transport routes will be approved


and other money will go into site development. He needs a bit more


time with this gentleman. Tomorrow Britain faces damage and disruption


from strikes, none backed by a majority of union members. Since the


Right Honourable member became leader of the Labour Party he has


taken 30 million from them and will not stand up to that union barons.


Will he votes to stop this licensed sabotage? My honourable friend makes


a very good point and the time has come to look at setting thresholds


in strike ballots. I mentioned the NUT strike earlier. I note they are


paid for by the unions, but they might want to listen to this because


it will disrupt our children's' education. The ballot took place in


2012, it is based on a 27% turnout. How can it be right for our


children's education to be disrupted by trade unions acting in that way.


It is time to legislate and it will be in the Conservative manifesto.


One viewer has said that it was good to see proper discourse but soon it


descended once again into heckling. One point was picked to try to score


points on whereas waiting times have gone down in all other areas. On the


first three questions, on a and A, three direct questions from Ed


Miliband, waffle and brother from David Cameron, and pantomime time on


the Tory backbenches. -- on a and E. Teflon Dave dodges another question,


according to one viewer. Stop this statistical nonsense, make it a


worthwhile exercise. Another viewer, once again, David Cameron answering


a question nobody has asked. Isn't that the point of statistical rows!


And not for the first time. Broadly supportive Labour leader, on the


enquiries into this historic sex abuse case. Did we learn anything


new from one -- from what the Prime Minister told us? The big


overarching enquiry, looking at why institutions including the BBC


failed to deal with sexual abuse, even when some people were alerted


about it, the Prime Minister seems like he does not see it as a way of


enquiring into the allegations that there was a conspiracy or a cover up


in the establishment, meaning there were paedophiles in high places in


politics in both the Commons and the Lords, in the judiciary and


elsewhere. Does not sound to me like he thinks it is that sort of


enquiry. The reason I focus on that, that is critical to whether Butler


Sloss gains that confidence. If she is looking at the legal framework,


the culture, she can easily say that the fact that her brother was the


Attorney General may not have any relevance. If she is expected to


hear from the victims, then it seems to me there are real questions to


ask. The MP who has campaigned on this, Simon Danczuk, successor to


Cyril Smith in Rochdale, he has questions as well. To times of


waiting lists, we will try to untangle them. Waiting lists to get


in for an operation, a procedure, some kind of treatment, and there


are waiting times, if you go to the accident and emergency. Let's take


accident and emergency first, can we accept this trust that there are


more people waiting over four hours for a and E treatment than their


were before? It has almost trebled since 2009.


There are more people going to a and E. Record numbers, as a result of


the health service. More people waiting. What we saw at PMQ 's, we


had a similar debate at last weeks PMQ 's, is a battle over different


types of statistics, by Mr mention the statistic, that times have


reduced from 77 minutes down to 30 minutes... -- PMQ s. What I will say


is that what people will be looking at is what is going on in the local


area, in terms of my local area and the King Lynn hospital, times are


going down, people are getting better service and fewer complaints.


The proof is in the pudding. Hold on, hold on, these figures are quite


clear, these figures are your government figures. On major a and


E, it has doubled, there is three types of a and E, on the majors,


overall it has trouble. -- trebled. -- A


The last figures I have seen, they are better than what we have now.


Four weeks ago I went into A I'm trying... You are going to give me


an anecdote. It took five and a half hours for me to have an x-ray. That


is what people are experiencing. We all have individual anecdote,


somebody can come and say something different. The point I'm trying to


make... The percentage in the most recent figures for June, at major


A centres that waited less than four hours, 95%, the difference has


been the increasing number of people going to accident and emergency.


When you go in you can get assessed, you get treated, both of those are


different times. It is the time going in and how long it takes you


to go in and come out the other side. I come from an accident prone


family, we are constantly there! LAUGHTER


You are the one! You are the one! I knew there was a cause! I was there


for five and half hours. People watching this, you can trade


numbers, but... That is what Ed Miliband was doing with the Prime


Minister. When you try to hold the government to account you trade


numbers, it gets lost, people only hear numbers. What they know is what


they know. What they know is what they have experienced themselves,


people are experiencing longer waits at accident and emergency. I do not


think that is true. It is not because more people are falling off


their bicycles. Excepting your family. On both of these exchanges,


this week and last week, Ed Miliband has failed to score. That is because


the Prime Minister makes up statistics as he goes along. I am


trying to look at the figures, instead of by Minister D that's


macro instead of politicians trading insult to do not know the figures.


Can we accept that the figures show that there are more people waiting


more than four hours for accident and emergency and there were when


the government came to power? -- I'm trying to look at the figures,


instead of politicians who do not know the figures arguing and trading


insults. I trust the figures, I shall take your word for it. The


second kind of waiting time, the wait for an operation. Do you accept


that the numbers waiting for operations on the 18, 26 and 52


weeks, has come down? Yes, no problem with that. It also depends


upon what you look at. 18, 26, 52... The question, what is it they are


waiting for? It depends... That is true of any government. Knee


operations and hip operations, real-life experiences that people


have got to wait longer to have an operation that key is a very painful


condition. Will use a prize that when your government left power,


21,000 people were waiting more than 52 weeks for an operation? -- were


you surprised? And that is now down to 500. I was not aware of that, it


would be interesting to know what kind of operations we are talking


about. With that suggest the Tories are not making quite as big a mess


of the NHS as you have suggested? They are making a mess, they have


spent billions of pounds on top reorganisation they did not need.


They are failing to keep up with demand. On this other waiting list


I've now talking about, although, as the Prime Minister said, only 180


6000, 186,000 people had to wait more than 18 weeks, there are now 3


million people, in the 18 week category. 3 million people waiting


for a procedure. It has doubled in recent years. The NHS is now under a


lot of pressure, a lot more than before. What we know is a record


number of patients are using the NHS and we are seeing growing figures in


accident and emergency and this is the whole point of what we have done


in terms of critical commissioning, making more efficient use of


services, making sure services are redesigned to fit the modern age,


making sure more things can be accessed. It is not more efficient


if you have to go to accident and emergency because you cannot get an


appointment with your GP, you can say it is more efficient but it is


not correct! Can I finish my point? You are talking nonsense. Increased


doctors, decreased managers, that is -- increased doctors, decreased


managers, that is what we have got. And all of these figures are


English, remember. both of them. There was a figure


used by David Cameron last week, which he repeated this week, which


is a misleading figure. It is not untrue, they can be not very


helpful, not the right way to look at things. The phrase they used was


simplistic which was taken down. I will agree with her on that. I agree


with Liz Truss that despite having that ammunition, Ed Miliband did not


score a political point. In the test of the crucible of Prime Minister 's


questions, having that ammunition you would expect him to do well and


interestingly he did not do it. It is quite striking about the big


politics of the NHS, there is a big opportunity for a big opportunity


for Labour with it, they founded it in the first place and there are


increasing warnings the NHS will run out of money whoever is in power.


David Cameron seems to be able to insulated himself in the Commons by


pointing at Andy Burnham and saying, you used to run it and it is a


mess, and pointing at the Welsh assembly saying it is a mess. Policy


is very important. You and I know if you talk to experts, they genuinely


believe there is a funding crisis. The taxpayer will have to give more


money or we all as consumers of health will have to pay directly


through charges, some four of insurance. The King's fund is quite


clear there is a major problem coming in 2016. And beyond that.


What people forget, the statistic I remember is the era of cuts in the


NHS, Margaret Thatcher increased spending on the NHS by more than 3%


above inflation. I think that was too little, but under both Tory and


Labour plans, it is not going up at all. Spreading your wisdom and


diplomacy across the studio. Is that your next job? We have to


move on. See you next week for the final one. Of course.


Remember the champagne-filled days of cool Britannia where pop stars


were invited through the doors of Number Ten?


Well, last week our Dave had his own chill out in honour


Journalist Tanya Gold thinks that, in her words,


a "gruel Britannia" is the last thing our political system needs.


In our soapbox this week, which contains flash photography,


Politics is show business for ugly people, so the saying goes, but


should their worlds ever meet? I think politicians should resist the


temptation of courting people who trivialise politics. His main


interest was a Champagne supernova in the sky, but Tony Blair thought


it significant to court with this. How we do not miss the vapid days of


cool Britannia. Oh, it seems we do. Last week a party was thrown to


honour the entertainment industry. A gaggle of celebrities gathered to


hear the Prime Minister say to them, you make your can be so proud. Why


not the fishing industry? Celebrity is trivial and when it touches


politics, that seems trivial as well. Of course, the mix of


celebrity and politics is not new, but it is surprising politicians


have not learned their lesson. Another visitor to Mrs Thatcher was


Jimmy Savile and he had many holidays at Chequers during which he


used to write, in case of national emergency, phone Jimmy Savile, on


every notepad in the house. Sometimes the celebrity becomes


genuinely politicised. Russell Brown believes abolishing democracy will


make Britain a greater place. His narcissism is nothing strange, but


politicians should perhaps do better and recognise it. The death of


naivete and fake television niceness is not a terrible thing. Why should


we exalt only creatures who speak to children in children's words. Clear


them away completely. Tanya Gold is with us now. Is the


attraction between politicians and celebrities mutual? Sometimes. For


instance in 20 first 2002 at a Labour conference Kevin Spacey


appeared. Last week at the Tory party there were Ronnie Corbett,


Cilla Black and Bruce Forsyth. I think sometimes it is. Politicians


like celebrities because they think the electorate like celebrities and


they think it makes them look glamorous. Personally I would rather


my politician looked effective. Is narcissism at the centre of it? I


think a lot of celebrities have a tendency towards narcissism, you


have to think you can headline Glastonbury and solve world


problems. Not everybody is a narcissist, but a lot of celebrities


are. Do you think if Ed Miliband comes Prime Minister he should spend


no time at all with celebrities and a lot more time with fishing


representatives are people from the rail industry? I wish the world was


like that, I think that is how it should be, but sometimes in order to


get a message through, using a celebrity happens. We saw it


recently using rape in war. Angelina Jolie. Yes, but I would like to


think it would bring as much publicity if it had only been


William Hay, that it wouldn't have. Is Angelina Jolie trivial or does


she bring something to the cause? I thought she has done a tremendous


job and it has made a difference. Firstly, the creative industries are


incredibly important to our economy. We had one of the biggest creative


sectors than virtually any country in the world. Last week we held a


reception for maths teachers. The reality is the press are not as


interested in them. Boris Johnson has had time to meet with Will


Smith, but he has not been to a food bank? Has he got his priorities


wrong? I do not have any knowledge of Boris Johnson's diary, but


politicians work with all people across all groups. The point about


the creative industries reception is the way it was built up by the press


because the press were interested in celebrities. Other things are


equally as important, but they do not get attention. Sometimes you


need to use celebrities to get attention. Professor Brian Cox is a


fantastic physicist and we want more kids to do physics and that is a


good way to get that message across to young people. Celebrities can be


helpful and they are an inevitability. Should they not touch


them with a barge pole? At the same time as William Hague was appearing


with Angelina Jolie he was a member of Government decimating support


centres for victims of rape in Britain. I thought she was being


used. Imagine our delight when an ambitious Tory minister Matt Hancock


was snapped this week ringing in front of graffiti calling for his


boss to be sacked. And after Ed Miliband's sandwich gaffe, we could


not resist trailing through our awkward photos of the political


elite. We start with Mike Hancock himself posing for total politics


magazine. Fantastic. With us now is a man who


has tried to keep politicians out of pictures, former spin doctor Lance


Price. We have only got a couple of minutes, but this would never have


happened in your day. It happens and all governments and all


politicians. You have to keep an eye on them. There are some that you can


see which were avoidable. There are others like Nigel Farage with the


microphone is the way the camera chose to take the picture. You can


do all kinds of things. If you take enough pictures of somebody, you can


make them look stupid. It is a bit more difficult with TV pictures.


Iain Duncan Smith, when he was Tory leader, they used to cover the fire


signs and the exit signs. We used to do that for other people. Would you


have put Gordon Brown or Tony Blair on a boat? They look comfortable.


You make these things a bit more interesting. You try to make people


look more human. I put Tony Blair on a Tube train by himself trying to


look like an ordinary member of the public. He was hanging on looking


completely stupid and it was a disaster. Did he ask for the


refreshment card? We love politicians, but they are not


ordinary folk. One of Parliamentary candidate to eat a photograph which


he had a photograph taken with four lady councillors and it said by four


get one free on the sign behind. If you think of the banana and David


Miliband there was he at that point, and I am a big fan of his, but it


was a mistake to get himself into, he was putting himself forward as a


potential leader of the Labour Party. When he should have been


looking prime ministerial he was walking down the street with a


banana. That was avoidable. Sometimes politicians do it on


purpose. John Prescott was vying with Peter Mandelson when Tony Blair


went on holiday over who was at the helm and he got a photo taken with a


crab. Guess the year, hit the button. This is the winner. Thank


you to all of our guests. The one o'clock News is on BBC One and we


will be back here tomorrow at noon with the Daily Politics.


The big story is the public sector strikes.


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