21/07/2014 Daily Politics


21/07/2014

Jo Coburn presents the latest political news, interviews and debate. Topics include further possible sanctions with Russia and the political fallout from last week's reshuffle.


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Transcript


LineFromTo

Afternoon folks, welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:36.:00:38.

David Cameron pushes for tougher sanctions against Russia

:00:39.:00:42.

over the passenger jet crash in Ukraine and calls on other EU

:00:43.:00:45.

countries to restrict the export of defence equipment to Moscow.

:00:46.:00:50.

Labour party bigwigs agree the basis for their next election

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manifesto, insisting the plans are for big reforms not big spending.

:00:54.:00:58.

The former environment secretary Owen Paterson takes to Twitter after

:00:59.:01:00.

Could fallen Tories cause a few headaches for the Prime Minister?

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And we'll hear from the man who really runs the House of Commons .

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I am the corporate officer, which means I own all the property and it

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also means I am the person liable if anything goes wrong.

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All that in the next hour and with us

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for the whole programme today is the lord mayor of London, Fiona Woolf.

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Thank you. David Cameron appears to have made peace with Jean Claude

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Juncker. They were pictured at the EU summit greeting each other with a

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high five. Jean Claude Juncker was all smiles to Pike -- despite David

:02:01.:02:05.

Cameron's attempt to prevent him getting the job, but never to have

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to get down to business, and in a concession to the UK, Jean Claude

:02:11.:02:14.

Juncker says he is not opposed to repatriation of powers from

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Brussels, a key demand of David Cameron. Yesterday the new Foreign

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Secretary Philip Hammond said he would still vote to leave the

:02:21.:02:23.

European Union and Leicester were significant reform in Brussels. Here

:02:24.:02:29.

he is, speaking to Andrew Marr -- unless there were significant

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reform. I am preparing for the renegotiation over the next nine or

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ten months, and then we will carry out the renegotiation, and when we

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get to the end of the process and we see what is on offer, what is on the

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table, we will make our recommendations. Let's be clear. Two

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years ago you thought if you did not get the renegotiation, you should

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leave. Have you changed your mind? I have not changed my mind. If there

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is no change at all in the way Europe is governed, and no change in

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the balance of competencies between the nation states and the European

:03:04.:03:05.

Union, and no resolution of the challenge of how the Eurozone can

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succeed and coexist with countries outside the Eurozone, that is not a

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Europe that can work for Britain in the future, so there must be change.

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The Foreign Secretary, Philip Hammond, sticking to his guns. We

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have been joined by the UKIP financial affairs spokesman, Stephen

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Moore. Fiona, first to you. How helpful as it do here in

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intervention for the Foreign Secretary that he would vote to

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leave as it stands now -- is it to here? The city is pro-Europe, but it

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is also pro-reform and it would like to see more focus on the growth in

:03:44.:03:47.

jobs agenda, completion of the single market, less red tape. I

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think it is helpful to be focused on reform, but of course, you have to

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understand the city has a lot of headquarters of foreign companies

:03:57.:03:59.

that are here because we are in Europe. And for them, access to the

:04:00.:04:08.

single market is important. Is it helpful to the debate to almost

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threaten that the UK will leave the EU if those powers are not

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repatriated to Brussels -- from Brussels to the UK? It increases the

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uncertainty in people's minds, obviously. And that might have some

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sort of chilling effect on investment and doing business with

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the city. You have heard Fiona saying that the Cities pro-EU, and

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they should know that they are a centre of finance globally, so they

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will know what is best for finance for jobs and business. I think they

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are certainly the one that knows what is best for finance and for

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jobs in the City but I don't agree that the city is pro-the EU. I think

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it is pro-European in terms of trading with European partners but

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if you look at recent polls you will see that the majority of business

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leaders are saying that they do not want to be part of the European

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Union and they want a referendum, and that is a widespread view. And

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there are many individuals in the city who have said if we jump out of

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the European Union we would have an economy that grows faster than Hong

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Kong or Singapore. Are you wrong to say that the city is pro-EU? We can

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argue over the stats and facts. Our surveys have come in at 84%, and the

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CBI have come in at roughly the same sort of level. And again more recent

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surveys say that 90% see it as an advantage to be part of the single

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market. We are not here to debate the stats and facts, but I am sure

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there are grounds for agreement about the reforms. What reforms

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would you like to see primarily? Which powers would you like to see

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brought back from Brussels to the UK? What we have put into the

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balance of competencies review has focused on the powers, and the

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conclusion has been more about overregulation, red tape, about the

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nature of the decision-making being slow and cumbersome. About the

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ability of the European commission to make up agendas that are not on

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the growth in jobs. Perhaps looking for short-term is. So if those were

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achieved, to some extent, business leaders would be happy and they can

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do that without leaving the EU. We all want growth and greater in

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Europe -- greater employment, but being in the European Parliament for

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a short time, it has confirmed my view that they are opposed to the

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Anglo-Saxon method of trading on the way we look at the City. And the way

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we consider the influences really concerning. You see a socialist in

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charge as the president, a socialist vice presidency, and the majority of

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the committee I work to the financial services sector which is

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essential for the country near to succeed because of the millions of

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jobs we have in the amount of money in there. What you don't see, the

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important part, is the lack of influence we have in the Council of

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ministers where the major decisions have been made since 1973, we have

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gone from over 20% to below 8%. We have no influence. Stephen claims we

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have no influence but you would disagree with that. How important

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would a free-trade deal with America be? It would be extremely important

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and useful if especially financial services were part of it. That is

:08:03.:08:08.

really all about achieving much more regulatory coherence on either side

:08:09.:08:11.

of the pond. And you would agree with that but that would never

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happen if Britain was not part of the EU? We would not be part of the

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deal. Here is where I fundamentally agree with Fiona, that we need to

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have a free-trade arrangements with the US but we also need one with

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other countries. Could we get that with the US if we were not part of

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the EU? Absolutely. Really? Iceland has a free-trade arrangement with

:08:37.:08:38.

China, so why the six largest trading nation -- six largest

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trading nation on the globe could not have one with the US is beyond

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me? I'm not sure that the US would bother to get on to a serious

:08:51.:08:53.

conversation about regulatory coherence with us, and financial

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services, if they were only dealing with us and not the rest of the EU.

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But they have negotiations with the grams 20, and we work with them at a

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national level. You are using anecdotal evidence that there could

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be some corporate -- sort of agreements made at that you're

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convinced it would not happen, Fiona? You can never be convinced of

:09:17.:09:28.

anything in life. But there is a bigger prize on both sides for an EU

:09:29.:09:33.

and US trade agreement. What about a referendum? Would you like to see an

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in and out referendum? What I would really like to see is substantial

:09:39.:09:45.

progress on the sorts of reforms that we are all agreed on. It's not

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just that we agree amongst ourselves on reform, but we talk to the

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industry bilaterally, and all the other countries, wherever we go. We

:09:55.:10:00.

have had conversations with all of them in the last year or so. And

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they agree that we need a growth in jobs agenda. It's a fairly

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straightforward agenda we can agree on. And the amount of representation

:10:10.:10:24.

we have in the EU has halved over the last ten years, so we are not

:10:25.:10:28.

punching the right way. We only have 4% of influence in the commission,

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which says it all. You can see the way they are treating Lord Hill and

:10:33.:10:36.

there is a suggestion he would be the only Commissioner, and that

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shows a lack of influence the UK has in the European Union.

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We'll give you the correct answer at the end of the show .

:10:47.:11:06.

David Cameron is pushing for tougher sanctions against Russia

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over its response to the crash of the Malaysia Airlines jet

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EU foreign ministers meet tomorrow to try to agree new sanctions.S

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So far the EU has imposed travel bans and asset freezes on

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Only last week President Obama approved a new round of sanctions to

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target Russian defence companies, banks, and energy companies.

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David Cameron, who will make a statement to MPs

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later today, is calling on other EU leaders "to consider further

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The Government thinks EU sanctions ought to include companies

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and banks that are seen to facilitate the conflict in Ukraine.

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But there is more reticence in other parts

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Energy imports from Russia to Germany, for example,

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The Chancellor, George Osborne, warned that fresh sanctions could

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have an impact on the UK's economy but "

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We are getting together with other European countries to discuss

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further sanctions. Of course, sanctions could have an economic

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impact, but the economic impact of not having respected international

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borders and economic impact of what you see with the terrible tragedy

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with the airline, these are greater things. We are doing this to protect

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our economic security as well as our physical and national security.

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We can talk now to our political correspondent Ben Wright.

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Lots of tough sounding talk, but will David Cameron persuade his EU

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colleagues and counterparts? There has been a lot of talk about

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sanctions for months and the prospect of toughening them up.

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Britain has actually been one of the most vociferous in arguing that

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sanctions should be tougher on Russia over several weeks, but it

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now feels that this is a different moment. Even before this disaster,

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last Wednesday, the European Council agreed to widen the legal framework

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underpinning possible sanctions and agreed, in principle, that they

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could start to attack companies and individuals close to Vladimir Putin

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and the Kremlin, not just those directly involved in what is

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happening in Crimea and eastern Ukraine. In principle, it took a

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step last week and that the meeting in Brussels what we will see is

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Britain urging other countries to nail down the names of companies and

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individuals, cronies close to Vladimir Putin. The question is

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whether they can sign that off as soon as tomorrow. We talked about a

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frank exchange, frank conversation with Vladimir Putin, that is a

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euphemism in diplomatic speak for David Cameron being angry. How angry

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is he? Britain is not alone in being angry and exasperated with the way

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Moscow has approached this over the last three or four days. There was a

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similar tone to the reading out of discussions between the French, the

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German, the Australian governments. People are infuriated at the

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reluctance by Moscow to put pressure on the rebel separatists where the

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plane went down, to allow the site to be secured, to allow proper

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investigations to begin, and, of course, to allow access to the

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bodies and the repatriation process to begin. There is fury and

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discussed the way Moscow have gone about it and it's interesting that

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this morning there was the statement issued by Vladimir Putin, a video

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statement, where he seemed to soften his stance quite a lot and said that

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he wanted to seek a UN led investigation up and running as soon

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as possible and for the site to be secured. He got quite a rollicking

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from other leaders over the weekend and it feels like he may have

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responded to some of that pressure. With us now is the former

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Foreign Office minister Jeremy Browne, and joining us from our

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Bristol studios is David Clark, who chairs the Russia Foundation and was

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formerly a special advisor to Robin We have seen militia picking over

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the crash site and independent investigators still don't have

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access, just more evidence that Russia is acting with impunity? I

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think so, clearly they want to cover their tracks. They know they are in

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a bad position. It is imperative that the international immunity is

:15:26.:15:30.

clear and united in its resolve to ensure access to the site and that

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there is a proper investigation, and responsibility is appropriately

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allocated. But it needs to continue, the international community has to

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be very firm in making it clear to Vladimir Putin that they have to

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enter the activities they have been sponsoring inside western Ukraine,

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co-operate in bringing stability to the country and to stop meddling.

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It's absolutely essential that everyone understands this is not a

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domestic Ukrainian insurgency, not a civil war, it is a funded and armed

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intervention by Russia and they bear direct responsibility for what

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happened on Thursday even if they didn't mean to shoot down this

:16:13.:16:16.

particular aircraft. They certainly met to shoot something down and they

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knew lives would be lost. They are the instigators, they are the people

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who need to stop and there has to be a step change in the western and

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European response. The inference that the West just has not been

:16:30.:16:34.

tough enough with Vladimir Putin and here we are. I agree with everything

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David said and I agree with the position the government has taken.

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We in Britain have been leading the push for a robust response to what

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the Russians are doing in Ukraine. A lot of other European leaders have

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shown inadequate leadership. We hear a lot that the European union is a

:16:51.:16:55.

great forced magnifier around the world and it gives us greater clout

:16:56.:16:58.

in global affairs. That is potentially true but it doesn't mean

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anything if when we have incidents like this European leaders are not

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willing to put their name to something forceful and I am hoping

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that is what they will do. Do you blame the British public for being

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cynical? They may have thought this is the sort of tough talk that

:17:15.:17:18.

should have been in play months ago. I think it should have been in play

:17:19.:17:22.

months ago. It is a source of regret that a lot of European leaders...

:17:23.:17:28.

No, I think we have been at the forefront of pushing for something

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robust, but others have been looking for stimulation because they are

:17:34.:17:37.

reliant for Russia on energy supplies, and we have put ourselves

:17:38.:17:41.

in a good position of being less reliant on the Russians than some

:17:42.:17:45.

other countries. Let's talk about specific sanctions. How much tougher

:17:46.:17:51.

would they be? David Cameron has talked the talk, but how much

:17:52.:17:54.

tougher would they be in reality if they are agreed by the EU? The

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current proposals, the previous proposals for restrictions on a

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handful of people travelling were inadequate so they could be

:18:04.:18:09.

extended. It is important that we don't just think of it on an EU

:18:10.:18:12.

level. The Japanese, South Koreans and others would give it greater

:18:13.:18:19.

bite if they were to participate in a wider co-ordinated set of

:18:20.:18:24.

sanctions. Do you think that will have an effect? If tougher sanctions

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are agreed, and there is no guarantee that they will be when

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they meet, in Brussels, but do you think that would have a meaningful

:18:33.:18:38.

impact on Vladimir Putin? I think it would, provided the European Union

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will move beyond symbolic wrist slapping, asset freezes and travel

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bans against a handful of individuals... That is not going to

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work, we need to move beyond that and have sanctions against

:18:51.:18:54.

particular companies, banks and entire sectors of the Russian

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economy is necessary to get the message across. Russia is very

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dependent on its place in the world, its international linkages, it is

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very embedded in the process of globalisation. It is not an economy

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that can shut itself off. They need investment very badly, capital

:19:12.:19:16.

flows, they need trade access. The West is in a position to deny them

:19:17.:19:20.

that I shutting them out of the international financial system, for

:19:21.:19:24.

example, that would be damaging. Russia is already teetering on the

:19:25.:19:28.

brink of recession. If Latimer Putin thought there would be a serious

:19:29.:19:31.

economic downturn as a result of this, and it would affect his mystic

:19:32.:19:38.

popularity, which it would, he would think twice. -- mystic policies. Do

:19:39.:19:50.

you think they should be sidelined from the international financial

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centre? It's through that Russia has become something of a hub for trade

:19:56.:20:03.

investment. Do you regret that? In a sense, we are what we are. We don't

:20:04.:20:08.

regret the trade and investment that comes from wherever it comes from.

:20:09.:20:12.

We are not in a position to stop it because we are in a market,

:20:13.:20:18.

international market. We never thought of asking for special

:20:19.:20:23.

treatment to protect the city's interests. Would you be prepared...

:20:24.:20:30.

? It is a matter for our government, European governments to get together

:20:31.:20:34.

and devised a scheme that we have been talking about. Bearing in mind

:20:35.:20:39.

what has happened, Fiona Woolf, have you or any of your colleague ever

:20:40.:20:44.

lobbied ministers or civil servants against the imposition of financial

:20:45.:20:49.

sanctions against Russia? Absolutely not. Don't forget, the market has

:20:50.:20:53.

voted with its feet. The reports we are getting from our Moscow

:20:54.:20:58.

offices, this situation has had a chilling effect on trade and

:20:59.:21:02.

investment already. And many plans for investment have simply gone on

:21:03.:21:10.

hold. Do you think the City of London is too close the Russian

:21:11.:21:14.

financial interests? Do you think they have allowed too much Russian

:21:15.:21:22.

money to come into London? Not necessarily. It depends what you

:21:23.:21:28.

mean by too much Russian money. Is the relationship to close? People

:21:29.:21:33.

are accusing Russia of being a rogue state. City of London is arguably

:21:34.:21:39.

the pre-eminent global hub, we are going to trade with people right

:21:40.:21:42.

around the world. We are not going to just trade with the nine liberal

:21:43.:21:49.

governments. But it is important that the Russians understand there

:21:50.:21:53.

has to be some sort of order. -- benign liberal governments. They are

:21:54.:21:57.

actively intervening in Ukrainian affairs in a way that is not just

:21:58.:22:03.

damaging to the Ukraine, but as we see with this plane shot down,

:22:04.:22:07.

damaging the people across Europe and the world who have had friends

:22:08.:22:10.

and relatives killed in this deliberate attempt to shoot down a

:22:11.:22:15.

plane. We do have to be mindful of that, and as the Chancellor said

:22:16.:22:19.

yesterday on television, there may be some economic consequences to us

:22:20.:22:23.

of having serious sanctions but there are economic consequences of

:22:24.:22:28.

having a country as large and powerful as Russia acting with

:22:29.:22:32.

impunity in world affairs. Do you think the City of London has

:22:33.:22:36.

embraced Russian money and Russian financial interest in a way they

:22:37.:22:38.

shouldn't have done in recent months? I do. The way that we

:22:39.:22:46.

allowed oil assets to be floated on the stock exchange, the way in which

:22:47.:22:51.

flows of personal wealth come into this country to buy up property and

:22:52.:22:55.

inflate the London housing market in a way that is very harmful to

:22:56.:22:59.

Londoners, apart from anything else... We haven't been

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discriminating enough. The lesson that Vladimir Putin and others have

:23:05.:23:06.

drawn from this is that when it comes to dealing with his corrupt

:23:07.:23:11.

and authoritarian model of governance, the West puts its own

:23:12.:23:14.

financial interests before its values. They see us as bribe a

:23:15.:23:19.

ball. When Russia gets into a tight spot, they will always be able to

:23:20.:23:25.

buy their way out of it. The message has to be that that is no longer the

:23:26.:23:39.

case. -- they see us as bribeable. The financial interests and the

:23:40.:23:42.

values are a huge hot topic in the City of London anyway. Whether it is

:23:43.:23:48.

possible in a fast transaction, global market to look behind every

:23:49.:23:56.

transaction and stop it... Isn't that your responsibility? It's

:23:57.:24:03.

dealing with it as a whole. You can argue this anyway that you like, but

:24:04.:24:08.

the fact is, as you said yourself, there are no particular measures

:24:09.:24:14.

that you can apply when you actually stop something. It's really

:24:15.:24:20.

important that London is the global financial centre... Not at any

:24:21.:24:27.

price. We are seen to run a discriminate ship as regards to some

:24:28.:24:31.

of our values, and if we lose sight of that with our dealings with

:24:32.:24:37.

Russia, China or others, and we don't have self-confidence in our

:24:38.:24:41.

own values as a country, we become diminished not just ourselves but in

:24:42.:24:46.

the eyes of the world as well. Jeremy and David, thank you very

:24:47.:24:47.

much. Powerful, wealthy and representing

:24:48.:24:50.

the interests of the powerful and wealthy, the Corporation of London -

:24:51.:24:53.

the body that runs the City - But what is its role,

:24:54.:24:56.

what does it do, and can it help rebuild the reputation of

:24:57.:25:01.

its financial giants in the face of Giles has donned

:25:02.:25:03.

his pinstripe to find out. Explaining the oddities of the City

:25:04.:25:09.

of London to a stranger to the city that IS London might send

:25:10.:25:12.

them a bit blurry. It's run by a corporation, but not

:25:13.:25:17.

in the sense of the word that In the modern sense.

:25:18.:25:20.

It's a City inside a city. It's not a local authority

:25:21.:25:25.

but it has many of their powers. The Lord Mayor of London ISN'T

:25:26.:25:29.

the Mayor of London. It's only a square mile of land

:25:30.:25:32.

but it runs Epping Forest, Hampstead Heath and the animal

:25:33.:25:35.

reception centre at Heathrow. So to shed some light on this,

:25:36.:25:38.

from the ancient seat of the Corporation's power, the man

:25:39.:25:45.

who helps run things explains. The corporation is a very odd body,

:25:46.:25:59.

you would not invent it today, it goes back 800 years but it is not

:26:00.:26:03.

bound by tradition. It wouldn't still be around a bit stuck with the

:26:04.:26:08.

past. The work we do to promote London as an international business

:26:09.:26:09.

centre benefits the whole economy. That might sound peculiar

:26:10.:26:12.

when it celebrates for example the Car registration

:26:13.:26:15.

for the times before cars. But driving the interests

:26:16.:26:20.

of 8,000 residents and 300,000 workers who daily come

:26:21.:26:23.

into the Square Mile's financial There is still a impression that

:26:24.:26:36.

financial services is about people who work in shiny towns in Canary

:26:37.:26:42.

Wharf or the City of London. Most financial services are around the

:26:43.:26:45.

whole UK, or bury people in every town and high street looking after

:26:46.:26:51.

the needs of customers, individuals or small businesses. -- ordinary

:26:52.:26:54.

people in every town. The message we have to get across is that the city

:26:55.:26:58.

brings wealth into the country but it does not stay in the city, it

:26:59.:27:03.

moves across the whole UK, powering the economy and helping businesses

:27:04.:27:04.

to grow. Well, that may well be so, but over

:27:05.:27:07.

the last five years the reputational damage to this sector, over banking

:27:08.:27:10.

scandals, executive pay, bonuses, mis-selling and market manipulation,

:27:11.:27:12.

has tarnished the industry which in the UK is, by any standards,

:27:13.:27:15.

a global leader. We have got a lot of scandals still

:27:16.:27:32.

coming. We need to draw a line under the past. The important thing is to

:27:33.:27:36.

recognise the importance that financial services have, we have to

:27:37.:27:39.

make sure the banking system works for us, not just for the great

:27:40.:27:44.

invisible imports that come to the City of London and other parts of

:27:45.:27:47.

the UK because of global finance, but of course we also need an

:27:48.:27:50.

opportunity for small and medium-sized enterprises to benefit

:27:51.:27:53.

from what banks should be doing, which is lending money. We need to

:27:54.:27:55.

get that right. The Corporation has deep pockets,

:27:56.:27:57.

it sponsors the Barbican, runs schools and housing, covered a chunk

:27:58.:27:59.

of Cross Rail and other ventures. But its corporate focus draws

:28:00.:28:02.

criticism that it's a closed shop, We have no wish to be secretive. I

:28:03.:28:16.

am told we have secret bank accounts but they are so secretive no-one has

:28:17.:28:20.

told me about them. We have no wish be secretive.

:28:21.:28:22.

Nonetheless, it might be some time before

:28:23.:28:24.

the public see the City as anything more than greedy grey-suited hims,

:28:25.:28:27.

Markfield, Conservative MP, saying there are still scandals the

:28:28.:28:50.

service. -- surface. Are there? There are still investigations going

:28:51.:28:55.

on. This is something that is taking a while to get to the bottom of. We

:28:56.:29:05.

can't condone activity... Certainly that pushes into the criminal

:29:06.:29:09.

field. We can't begin to condone that. This stuff is not helpful for

:29:10.:29:17.

me in my role, which is promoting financial and business services, and

:29:18.:29:23.

London as a place in which to do business. How difficult has it been

:29:24.:29:27.

since the financial crash? As you know, public anger was at its site

:29:28.:29:30.

and has been over the last few years, and the city's reputation was

:29:31.:29:36.

trashed to a certain extent. Has the culture in the City of London, in

:29:37.:29:41.

the banking world, changed in your mind? They are working on it. They

:29:42.:29:45.

are very sensitive about it. There are a lot of initiatives going on

:29:46.:29:49.

from the professional bodies bringing in ethical training and

:29:50.:29:57.

standards, Sir Richard Lambert's banking standards review commission

:29:58.:29:59.

is now being established at high speed. So they are wanting to make

:30:00.:30:13.

the world a better place. How would you describe the role of the City of

:30:14.:30:15.

London in modern Britain? It is there to be a good force, using

:30:16.:30:22.

heritage and a dowry, and making people pay to cross their bridges

:30:23.:30:29.

for centuries. But my role as Lord Mayor of London is not one about

:30:30.:30:32.

presiding at council meetings, although I do do that, it is

:30:33.:30:38.

actually getting out and about to attract trade and investment and

:30:39.:30:43.

jobs to Britain, and to promote exports and taking people with me.

:30:44.:30:48.

In fact, I think I am here because in the 1990s I travelled with the

:30:49.:30:53.

Lord Mayors overseas visits for their door opening powers, and

:30:54.:30:58.

disabled -- enabled me to export my firm all over the world. So more

:30:59.:31:02.

than just a pressure group are high finance, which is what critics would

:31:03.:31:05.

say, that you use the lobbying power and money to promote your interest

:31:06.:31:10.

to that end? Well, I'm not really in a hugely lobbying role. Maybe a

:31:11.:31:16.

little bit of soft power around the edges, but it's really more about

:31:17.:31:23.

making it easy for people to do business, and particularly I receive

:31:24.:31:30.

as many inward visits which takes up as much time as my overseas travel,

:31:31.:31:35.

and I will be away for 100 days per year. Fiona, thank you very much.

:31:36.:31:39.

There's an end of term feel to things as MPs get ready to head back

:31:40.:31:43.

to their constituencies for the summer recess.

:31:44.:31:45.

Here's what's coming up in the week ahead.

:31:46.:31:47.

The Commons rises tomorrow for the summer recess.

:31:48.:31:49.

MPs will not be expected back until the 1st of September.

:31:50.:31:53.

It's also the final cabinet before the summer break.

:31:54.:31:55.

On Wednesday the Commonwealth Games will begin and David Cameron is

:31:56.:31:58.

expected to attend the opening ceremony at Glasgow's Celtic Park.

:31:59.:32:02.

And on Friday the latest GDP figures will be released.

:32:03.:32:06.

Will this leave the Chancellor in a good mood for his holidays?

:32:07.:32:10.

So, to give their end of term assessments I'm joined now

:32:11.:32:13.

by Laura Pitel of The Times and by Tamara Cohen of the Daily Mail.

:32:14.:32:20.

Tamara, where do you think the parties are placed as we stand here

:32:21.:32:27.

almost at the end of term? It's interesting. It's been a very

:32:28.:32:31.

eventful year but we are in a similar position to last summer. The

:32:32.:32:34.

Tories are full of confidence since the budget and they have a top team

:32:35.:32:38.

in place and the economy has recovered better than they could

:32:39.:32:42.

have expected, yet they are still three or four points behind Labour

:32:43.:32:45.

in the polls, so they will hope over the summer that they can hammer home

:32:46.:32:49.

their messages about the economy, about welfare, about Europe and by

:32:50.:32:52.

the time of the party conference they can hopefully take the lead.

:32:53.:32:56.

Labour will be on the attack over the summer. They are ahead in the

:32:57.:33:00.

polls but people are not sure that Ed Miliband is in the right place to

:33:01.:33:04.

be Prime Minister. So they will spend the summer having pushed the

:33:05.:33:10.

Shadow Cabinet out and about to improve their standing. Laura,

:33:11.:33:15.

looking at it now, will anything changed dramatically between now and

:33:16.:33:21.

the election in terms of the polling, or will it go on as it is?

:33:22.:33:26.

That is the big question. The Tories will be hoping to overtake Labour in

:33:27.:33:30.

the polls sometime between now and the autumn and if that does not

:33:31.:33:37.

happen you wonder that they might get more jittery. We will be in a

:33:38.:33:40.

holding position over the summer and then they will make some new

:33:41.:33:55.

announcement. There's only two months to go, so it's a huge focus

:33:56.:33:59.

of attention by both parties and it's obviously a difficult one for

:34:00.:34:02.

the Conservatives. They only have one MP in Scotland and it will be

:34:03.:34:11.

making his annual trip to Balmoral as well as attending the

:34:12.:34:14.

Commonwealth Games. He will try to make the emotional argument about

:34:15.:34:19.

Scottish independence. We have heard a lot from the Better Together

:34:20.:34:24.

campaign about the economic arguments, about jobs and oil

:34:25.:34:28.

revenues, but I think both parties will be keen to go up there and make

:34:29.:34:32.

the emotional argument, and I'm sure Alex Salmond will be using every

:34:33.:34:38.

opportunity he can to make capital from that. What about the Liberal

:34:39.:34:41.

Democrats? We expect the reshuffle from them when we come back in

:34:42.:34:46.

September. Yes, there has been some speculation that Joe Swinson, one of

:34:47.:34:52.

the up-and-coming female stars might swap places with the Scotland

:34:53.:35:02.

Secretary after the Scottish referendum -- Jo Swinson. They will

:35:03.:35:06.

want to bed down, and it was described as every man for himself

:35:07.:35:10.

by one MP, and they will wonder if there will be any Liberal Democrat

:35:11.:35:16.

MPs left to form a coalition. Do you think that the lines on the economy

:35:17.:35:19.

will stay very much the same, that you will hear from the coalition

:35:20.:35:24.

that unemployment continues to come down, that they are battling against

:35:25.:35:28.

the deficit and growth has returned, and these are promising

:35:29.:35:32.

economic foundations, and the Labour Party will still, against that, talk

:35:33.:35:35.

about the cost of living and the fact that not everyone is feeling

:35:36.:35:44.

the recovery. I think so. Labour has had some criticism for the cost of

:35:45.:35:48.

living argument is that as the economy grows, people will feel

:35:49.:35:51.

better off and by the time of the election it could be a lot less

:35:52.:35:54.

persuasive, but they will have to stick with it. They are hoping that

:35:55.:35:59.

the Tory party will continue to talk about the long-term economic plan

:36:00.:36:04.

and jobs, and having the fastest growing economy in the G-7. Labour

:36:05.:36:11.

can make a good argument around things like rail fares and energy

:36:12.:36:16.

prices and they talked at the National policy Forum about some of

:36:17.:36:19.

the offerings they would make the party conference. But the key

:36:20.:36:26.

challenge for them is to turn it into something. Jon Cruddas said

:36:27.:36:29.

that the policy perhaps don't add up to a narrative about the country and

:36:30.:36:33.

that is what Labour need to develop in the coming months. Just finally,

:36:34.:36:37.

Laura, how the Tory MPs feeling at the end of term after the

:36:38.:36:41.

reshuffle? Well, the ones who have been sacked feeling OK. One of the

:36:42.:36:47.

themes of the last few months has been the almost unsettling quiet

:36:48.:36:51.

amongst Tory MPs after quite a rocky period in the run-up to the European

:36:52.:36:53.

elections. Things have actually been quite quiet. They will go away

:36:54.:36:59.

feeling not quietly confident, but OK and they will want to bed down

:37:00.:37:03.

and hang on in there and see if they can make it happen in May 2015.

:37:04.:37:14.

David Cameron's big reshuffle last week promoted some new faces to the

:37:15.:37:18.

Cabinet but he also sacked some people who are now on the

:37:19.:37:22.

backbenches with more time on their hands and the potential to cause Mr

:37:23.:37:23.

Cameron one or two headaches. Take for example the former

:37:24.:37:29.

Environment Secretary Owen Paterson. looking for someone to run my new

:37:30.:37:31.

office, but I seem to have lost That's a reference to the former

:37:32.:37:35.

special advisor to Michael Gove, who since leaving the department for

:37:36.:37:40.

education has very publicly attacked Then there's the former attorney

:37:41.:37:42.

general, Dominic Grieve. He was asked by Sky yesterday

:37:43.:37:47.

whether Mr Cameron had sacked him because of his view that Britain

:37:48.:37:50.

should remain a signatory to the Mr Grieve said,

:37:51.:37:53.

"It's certainly possible. There's certainly been a lot of

:37:54.:37:57.

background to this over some time". And Ken Clarke has also

:37:58.:38:02.

been giving interviews. Talking to The Observer about the

:38:03.:38:05.

chances of a Conservative majority in the next election, Mr Clarke

:38:06.:38:08.

said, "I belong to a Conservative Party that used to be able to win

:38:09.:38:11.

elections", and that winning a majority in May next year is

:38:12.:38:14.

a "mountain to climb" I have been joined by Diane Abbott

:38:15.:38:31.

and Margot James and Laura Liebert for the Liberal Democrats. And here

:38:32.:38:36.

is Diane, who can join us. We were just talking about the big beasts

:38:37.:38:39.

who have escaped from the confines of ministerial offices, so who are

:38:40.:38:43.

you most worried about? We have to look positively and see that there

:38:44.:38:49.

is a new government in terms of people being brought on. I was

:38:50.:38:52.

pleased to see the number of women brought into the Cabinet and into

:38:53.:38:57.

government for the first time. Why won't you brought in? There are

:38:58.:39:01.

always more people than jobs and I have to take it on the chin. I was

:39:02.:39:04.

disappointed but I've got over it and I'm looking forward to the new

:39:05.:39:10.

term and helping to see a Conservative majority government

:39:11.:39:12.

elected next May. What job would you have liked? I have a business

:39:13.:39:16.

background and I've been working on the trade and investment brief for

:39:17.:39:20.

three years, so I was hoping to be able to make more of a contribution

:39:21.:39:25.

on the business side. Or on the foreign affairs and International

:39:26.:39:31.

development side. But in the meantime I am now free to speak in

:39:32.:39:34.

those areas where I was before because I was I am now able to make

:39:35.:39:43.

more of a contribution on the other areas. One of your former

:39:44.:39:49.

colleagues, Louise Mensch, tweeted over the weekend and said it was

:39:50.:39:52.

insane not to promote shoot and it must be galling when so many were

:39:53.:40:01.

promoted -- promote you. I think Mr Cameron missed a trick by not

:40:02.:40:04.

promoting Margot as she is an excellent Conservative MP. I have

:40:05.:40:08.

already answered that question. He made a mistake then? I said I was

:40:09.:40:14.

disappointed and I got over it. You will not be causing trouble on the

:40:15.:40:17.

backbenches as other colleagues perhaps might. Well, we don't know

:40:18.:40:22.

what the future holds, but the economy is going very well indeed.

:40:23.:40:26.

There is a lot of other good news. If we get the right result in the

:40:27.:40:29.

Scottish referendum, we will be well placed for the next election. Diane,

:40:30.:40:32.

welcome to the programme, better late than never. Well done for

:40:33.:40:36.

making it. From the backbenches, you know something about shouting from

:40:37.:40:40.

the sidelines, so who do you think is the biggest threat from the

:40:41.:40:49.

departed ministers? He is a very, very nice and gently spoken man, but

:40:50.:40:54.

I think Dominic Grieve, he is trying to tell them that they cannot

:40:55.:40:58.

legally and constitutionally do what they want to do, which is step away

:40:59.:41:01.

from the European Court of Human Rights. He's tried to tell them the

:41:02.:41:06.

truth is a law officer and they thanked him by sacking him. Although

:41:07.:41:10.

there might be some short-term political advantage and what they

:41:11.:41:13.

are doing, they are wrong and Dominic knows it. You were upset

:41:14.:41:19.

about the departure of Dominic Grieve, and Kenneth Clarke, who

:41:20.:41:22.

would describe himself as the biggest Europhile in the Tory ranks.

:41:23.:41:27.

He is quite liberal as well in his views, so we are disappointed to see

:41:28.:41:35.

him go, as well as Dominic. Of the new appointments, the best gloss I

:41:36.:41:39.

can put on it is the number of women that he has promoted, some very

:41:40.:41:45.

talented, sparky women, but this lurch to the right to try and

:41:46.:41:49.

appease the right wingers who will never ever be appeased because they

:41:50.:41:53.

will always want more, unfortunately, and that is a shame

:41:54.:41:56.

he has done that. That's what it looks like two critics and

:41:57.:42:02.

opponents, that losing both Kenneth Clarke and Dominic Grieve is a sop

:42:03.:42:06.

to UKIP. It is fear, and trying to reconcile the right of the party. I

:42:07.:42:11.

don't think that is the case. Ken Clarke, it has been widely trailed

:42:12.:42:16.

that he has stepped down from his own decision after so many years.

:42:17.:42:21.

What about Dominic Grieve? I was very sorry to see Dominic go as

:42:22.:42:25.

well. I think he has been a fine Attorney General changes have be

:42:26.:42:29.

made. And within time for a general election. But this is just changing

:42:30.:42:35.

the face, this is a clear signal that they want to move away from

:42:36.:42:38.

their commitment to the Convention on human rights which is a serious

:42:39.:42:43.

thing. Does it worry you if there is a move away? Dominic Grieve was seen

:42:44.:42:49.

as a block on debate about withdrawing from the European

:42:50.:42:51.

Convention on human rights. Would you be worried about it? I would be

:42:52.:42:55.

worried if the alternative proposals would not enshrine all the

:42:56.:43:00.

principles of the Convention on human rights into a British Bill of

:43:01.:43:04.

Rights. That is the proposal. Yes, I was concerned by what Dominic had to

:43:05.:43:07.

say yesterday but we will see how that develops. I just think it would

:43:08.:43:12.

be a complete disaster. Britain has been a flagship for human rights,

:43:13.:43:20.

and if we withdraw from the European convention on human rights, what is

:43:21.:43:23.

that going to say to all of the dictators around the world? What

:43:24.:43:29.

will it say to Vladimir Putin? It's a horrible example to set. It hasn't

:43:30.:43:34.

happened yet. But that is the way it's going and that's why we are

:43:35.:43:41.

both anxious about it. Message discipline is always important. And

:43:42.:43:45.

you said to the leadership that you were probably let go by Ed Miliband

:43:46.:43:48.

because you weren't quite on message. Could you be recalled if

:43:49.:43:53.

there is a reshuffle? I was sacked because I was one of the first

:43:54.:43:57.

people to express opposition to the war on Syria and I don't regret a

:43:58.:44:03.

thing. Who Ed Miliband has on his front bench is a matter for him.

:44:04.:44:07.

When he sacked me, he said, do you think I'm doing the right thing? I

:44:08.:44:11.

said you are, it's your reshuffle. It's always the right thing. I am

:44:12.:44:17.

happy backbencher. I can say to Margot, she can be a happy

:44:18.:44:19.

backbencher as well. Leave it there. What's your idea

:44:20.:44:30.

of a fun summer weekend? How about being cooped up in

:44:31.:44:32.

a conference room in Milton Keynes, hammering out policy agreements with

:44:33.:44:34.

200 of your closest colleagues? No? Well,

:44:35.:44:37.

that's how Ed Miliband and his team spent last weekend, at the Labour

:44:38.:44:39.

Party's National Policy Forum. Here's what Ed Miliband said

:44:40.:44:41.

at the event. Britain still has a deficit to deal

:44:42.:44:51.

with and a debt to pay down, so we commit to balance the books in the

:44:52.:44:58.

next Parliament. We will deliver a surplus in the current budget. But I

:44:59.:45:01.

want to say to you today that there is an even bigger reason why we need

:45:02.:45:05.

a new direction, rooted in Labour values. It comes from our experience

:45:06.:45:10.

in government. Higher spending is not actually the answer to the

:45:11.:45:14.

long-term economic crisis that we together have identified over the

:45:15.:45:15.

last four years. So those on the left, who wanted to

:45:16.:45:18.

see a bit of old-fashioned anti-austerity tax and spend,

:45:19.:45:21.

are likely to be disappointed. But the man who delivered New Labour

:45:22.:45:23.

to office has also had been speaking about Labour's policy direction this

:45:24.:45:27.

morning. Diane might be upset to know that

:45:28.:45:42.

the third Way is here to say. It isn't a programme, it is a

:45:43.:45:48.

philosophy. Its essence does not lie in a particular set of solutions.

:45:49.:45:53.

But in a way of thinking. For that reason, it's not time-limited, it's

:45:54.:46:00.

perpetual. But because it is about modernisation, it is, therefore,

:46:01.:46:12.

also dynamic and not static. Tony Blair, delivering a speech 20 years

:46:13.:46:16.

since being elected as leader. Higher spending is not necessarily

:46:17.:46:21.

the answer. Do you agree? Not necessarily. A lot of people will

:46:22.:46:26.

vote Labour because they are hoping that they will reverse the coalition

:46:27.:46:34.

cuts. Using the money differently is one thing, but would you like to see

:46:35.:46:38.

Labour promising to spend more in general on public services?

:46:39.:46:42.

Train-macro it's not what I would like to see, people -- it's not what

:46:43.:46:51.

I would like to see, people will vote for us or the Lib Dems because

:46:52.:46:56.

they want to see some of the spending reversed. Were you

:46:57.:46:59.

disappointed with what Ed Miliband had to say, that it would be

:47:00.:47:02.

business as usual, keeping the spending cuts? It doesn't surprise

:47:03.:47:11.

me that they want to keep within the spending envelope. The question for

:47:12.:47:14.

us as a party is how do we spend that money? We think we can spend it

:47:15.:47:19.

better than the Tories. Were you disappointed to hear it? They have a

:47:20.:47:27.

long way to go. For a start, they have only committed to matching the

:47:28.:47:30.

plans for a year. They can do a hell of a lot of damage in the four years

:47:31.:47:36.

after that is up. People would argue you have done damage with the

:47:37.:47:43.

terrible welfare cuts. We inherited an economy where we were spending ?5

:47:44.:47:48.

for every ?4 we were earning. You seem to have forgotten about the

:47:49.:47:53.

collapse and the international financial crisis. The previous

:47:54.:47:57.

Labour government started borrowing to spend in 2001, years before the

:47:58.:48:04.

collapse. So the investment was wrong into the National Health

:48:05.:48:08.

Service and education? A lot of money was basically borrowed and

:48:09.:48:11.

when the chickens came home to roost and this country was suddenly facing

:48:12.:48:14.

the same sort of banking crisis as the rest of the world, we were more

:48:15.:48:19.

exposed than any of the other G-7 countries. That was the legacy we

:48:20.:48:23.

had to deal with and which we are still dealing with, and there is

:48:24.:48:26.

more to be done. What Labour have come out with over the weekend is

:48:27.:48:30.

wholly inadequate. Do you think it is believable? No, they have opposed

:48:31.:48:37.

every single reduction in our spending that the coalition has had

:48:38.:48:42.

to settle on. Every single one. Who do you agree with? Is Diane Wright?

:48:43.:48:50.

Some of the benefits cuts are extremely unpopular. -- is Diane

:48:51.:48:57.

correcter macro? I don't have a great deal of sympathy for Diane's

:48:58.:49:02.

position. It seems Ed Miliband is saying, look, we crashed the economy

:49:03.:49:07.

before but please do trust us because we won't do it again. I

:49:08.:49:13.

don't see any evidence... You go out there next year campaigning to

:49:14.:49:18.

defend Tory cuts and see what that does for you. Do you defend the

:49:19.:49:25.

cuts? Do you defend the idea of more cuts post-2015? Yes, I think we have

:49:26.:49:29.

to stay solvent as a country. We have found that what happens when we

:49:30.:49:33.

are on the brink of economic disaster. We have to be sensible. I

:49:34.:49:37.

have sympathy with the idea of spending differently. Where would

:49:38.:49:44.

you spend differently? Each party has their priorities. We have

:49:45.:49:47.

announced there are certain things we want to change. There will be a

:49:48.:49:54.

whole manifesto... Suddenly discovering it is a bad thing, three

:49:55.:49:59.

years on... We're not saying the bedroom tax is a bad thing. Are you

:50:00.:50:08.

calling it a bedroom tax? A spare room subsidy. We are saying the

:50:09.:50:12.

implementation has not been done successfully and that is why we have

:50:13.:50:18.

changed it. We still agree with it. Diane, you are looking at Lorely

:50:19.:50:21.

quizzically, but you could be in coalition. Some of the ideas have

:50:22.:50:26.

been taken straight out of the Lib Dem manifesto, mansion tax,

:50:27.:50:30.

localism, devolution, these are all things you agree on. Acting on the

:50:31.:50:41.

question of free school meals years before Labour discovered it... Why

:50:42.:50:47.

didn't you do it then? We did it in local authority is where we have the

:50:48.:50:51.

power to do it, in case you didn't notice. We were not in power so we

:50:52.:50:55.

couldn't implement it. Yes, many of the things Lib Dems talk about, we

:50:56.:51:02.

have been talking about for years. There are policy matches between

:51:03.:51:04.

yourself and the Lib Dems. More than ever. There is always going to be

:51:05.:51:09.

policy overlap when both parties are vaguely to the left of the Tories.

:51:10.:51:15.

So there is an overlap. Labour moving closer to the Lib Dems

:51:16.:51:18.

because they see the only possibility is of a coalition? It

:51:19.:51:25.

will be in the coalition's hands whether we see a coalition. It is

:51:26.:51:29.

not for me to second-guess. Ken Clarke has said it would be a

:51:30.:51:33.

mountain to climb for the Tories to the largest party, never mind have

:51:34.:51:39.

an overall majority. It's a challenge for any party to get an

:51:40.:51:42.

overall majority when you see reduced voting for the main two

:51:43.:51:46.

parties, that is an electoral fact we have to deal with. In addition,

:51:47.:51:50.

we didn't get the boundary changes through. It still takes a lot more

:51:51.:51:55.

conservative votes to elect a government than a Labour government.

:51:56.:52:01.

In terms of our progress on the economy and the polling of the Prime

:52:02.:52:05.

Minister's support against Ed Miliband's support, which is

:52:06.:52:09.

massively in favour of the Prime Minister... You are still four

:52:10.:52:16.

points behind. At this stage. I don't think politicians who have

:52:17.:52:19.

been three points behind with a year to go... Technically, you have got a

:52:20.:52:26.

recovery, but it is a vote less recovery because people don't feel

:52:27.:52:28.

better off. You might have thought it is

:52:29.:52:36.

the Speaker of the House of Commons, John Bercow -

:52:37.:52:40.

but you'd be wrong. In fact, the Clerk of the House

:52:41.:52:43.

of Commons is really in charge. He's also chief executive

:52:44.:52:46.

of the House of Commons Service. The current holder of the post,

:52:47.:52:48.

Sir Robert Rogers, is retiring after I popped over

:52:49.:52:51.

the road to meet him last week. cheering us with his good humour,

:52:52.:53:07.

Sir Robert has been unfailingly helpful, patient and courteous. He

:53:08.:53:11.

has brought formidable intellect, his insight and his great sense of

:53:12.:53:20.

humour. Sir Robert's appearance belies an intellectually adventurous

:53:21.:53:24.

mind, and a considerable radicalism in terms of this place.

:53:25.:53:35.

Robert Rogers, you are part of the houses of parliament. One of the

:53:36.:53:40.

most interesting things about your role, you are the legal owner of all

:53:41.:53:46.

these amazing buildings. How come? Well, I am the corporate officer,

:53:47.:53:50.

which means I own all of the house's property and it also means I

:53:51.:53:54.

am the person liable if anything goes wrong. To preserve something

:53:55.:53:59.

like this for future generations I think is a really worthwhile

:54:00.:54:04.

endeavour. It's absolutely amazing. People around the world know it, but

:54:05.:54:09.

it also looks a bit ecclesiastical and fusty so we have to run a modern

:54:10.:54:14.

parliament inside that building. One of the most important roles in your

:54:15.:54:18.

job is to give advice to the Prime Minister and other ministers, but do

:54:19.:54:23.

they ever take your advice? Giving advice, absolutely partially, to

:54:24.:54:30.

government, ministers, wherever they are in the house, members of any

:54:31.:54:35.

party, no party... Of course we advise them, but it is always in

:54:36.:54:41.

confidence. It is always rigidly impartial and vice. Is this where

:54:42.:54:45.

you bring ministers and Prime Ministers, to talk to them? Is this

:54:46.:54:50.

your chambers? If it was the Prime Minister, I would go and talk to

:54:51.:54:54.

him, although he happens to be two doors down. This is my office. This

:54:55.:55:00.

is where any member who wants to come and consult me can come and

:55:01.:55:05.

find me. Lets go and have a look. You the 49th clerk the house. Is it

:55:06.:55:09.

important to know each individual member? Absolutely vital. I do, and

:55:10.:55:18.

all of my colleagues do. When I am walking around the estate, I always

:55:19.:55:22.

greet members individually, stop and talk to them about something they

:55:23.:55:26.

are doing. The House of Commons is a small community. A newcomer to the

:55:27.:55:35.

houses of parliament, never been here before, how would you describe

:55:36.:55:42.

what you do? Two aspects do my job. Principal constitutional adviser to

:55:43.:55:46.

the house, advise on all its procedure and business. I have a lot

:55:47.:55:49.

of extremely able people to help with back. The buck on those is used

:55:50.:55:55.

to stop with me. The other part of the job, which only two or three of

:55:56.:55:58.

my predecessors would recognise as it is now, is being Chief Executive

:55:59.:56:04.

of the House of Commons service, which is getting on for 2000 people.

:56:05.:56:09.

Imagine you are going into the chamber. What would you do just

:56:10.:56:10.

before you go in? A lot of God to put on. Yes. --

:56:11.:56:25.

gramsarb. It's a dignified framework of the

:56:26.:56:42.

chamber. A lot of people outside this place like it. It's a dignified

:56:43.:56:47.

framework that allows the hurly-burly of politics to go on

:56:48.:56:52.

within it. I am not worried about signs of times past. History should

:56:53.:56:58.

be our inspiration, not our jailer. How old is that weaker? Quite old!

:56:59.:57:05.

We are ready to go. Off we go. Thank you. Sir Robert

:57:06.:57:23.

Rogers, who has retired. A great character. Did you meet him? Yes, I

:57:24.:57:30.

did, I went to him for some advice on procedure. He was just the most

:57:31.:57:34.

charming guy that you could ever wish to meet. I was reflecting on

:57:35.:57:38.

what he was saying about history being our inspiration, not our

:57:39.:57:43.

jailer. Perhaps both colleagues... We could have an outbreak of

:57:44.:57:46.

agreement that we do need some modernisation in the House of

:57:47.:57:54.

Commons. I just think he would be in the hearts of so many people for a

:57:55.:57:56.

long time to come. There's just time before we go to

:57:57.:57:59.

find out the answer to our quiz. The question was:

:58:00.:58:03.

who is Ed Miliband meeting today? Tony Blair, Barack Obama,

:58:04.:58:05.

Jean Claude Juncker, Angela Merkel? Diane? Barack Obama? Yes, what could

:58:06.:58:19.

possibly go wrong! Because it has never gone long before. Can you

:58:20.:58:22.

describe what the brush buyer will mean? Gordon Brown had to go in the

:58:23.:58:29.

kitchen and Barack Obama literally brushed by him there. The

:58:30.:58:36.

scholarly! Do you think that is what they call it? An important moment?

:58:37.:58:46.

Yes, an important step towards May 2015 when he gets elected... I

:58:47.:58:50.

shouldn't have given you that opportunity! Thank you to the three

:58:51.:58:54.

ladies for being my guests. The one o'clock News is starting on BBC1. I

:58:55.:58:58.

will be here tomorrow with the last daily politics. Goodbye.

:58:59.:59:10.

Imagine the number of women this industry supports.

:59:11.:59:13.

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