Browse content similar to 12/09/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good afternoon, folks. Welcome to our programme live from Edinburgh, | :00:42. | :00:49. | |
where, with six days to go, both sides of the referendum campaign are | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
throwing everything at it. A tearful Prime Minister, a Petchey Alex | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
Salmond. A tree load of MPs coming up from England. What could possibly | :00:58. | :01:06. | |
go wrong? -- a train full of MPs. The campaigners claim, on the yes | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
side, but they are on the road to victory, but the polls do not give | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
them the momentum they had at the weekend. The no campaign is in the | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
lead and the reality is too close to call. Those campaigning to save the | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
union have marshalled a bevy of big businesses to claim all sorts of bad | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
things would follow a yes vote. Alex Salmond says it is scaremongering. | :01:28. | :01:33. | |
And we have been to Glasgow to get under the skin of yes and no voters | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
in the east end. If you win the election, we get independence, build | :01:39. | :01:44. | |
a community centre as big as this Jobcentre so people have something | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
to look forward to something to do. What we need to realise is this is | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
not about political parties. This is about the future our country. | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
Here in London, we will be looking at what next week's referendum means | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
for the rest of the UK, which ever way Scots decide to folk. -- to | :02:03. | :02:10. | |
vote. The leader of Plaid Cymru and the Conservative MP John Emery will | :02:11. | :02:13. | |
join me live to discuss the future of the union. | :02:14. | :02:22. | |
All of that in the next hour. With us for the duration, a yes vote from | :02:23. | :02:31. | |
the Scotsman and Alan Cochrane, Scotland editor for the Daily | :02:32. | :02:37. | |
Telegraph who will be voting no. Yesterday the yes campaign shot | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
ahead for the first time. But this week sought to polls with the no | :02:41. | :02:49. | |
campaign back in the lead, leading to claims that Alex Salmond has | :02:50. | :02:58. | |
peaked too soon. It is possible. The big guns will have an impact on the | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
low side. Scottish people are listening to the arguments. There | :03:03. | :03:05. | |
are still many people not firmed up in their intention to vote. The | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
sheer weight of the firepower that has been brought to bear since that | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
poll came out is, I think, bound to have some sort of impact. If you're | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
asking me for a prediction, I would say a narrow note next Thursday. A | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
narrow no? But I do think it is still to play for and it depends how | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
the campaign goes, and the no campaign have made some errors over | :03:30. | :03:32. | |
the last year and if they make another it could go the other way. | :03:33. | :03:35. | |
It is within the margin of error. It is very close. I suppose the one | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
thing on the yes side that would be a bit disappointing is that what | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
Madame is everything in a referendum in particular. Undecideds might | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
think, the country folk are going one way, I will join them, I have | :03:51. | :03:53. | |
made up my mind. Alex Salmond has not yet got that momentum. It looked | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
like he was going to get at last we get. I certainly hope that he peaked | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
too early. The difference in his demeanour between Sunday and Monday, | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
and the last couple of days, has been remarkable. As well as the big | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
guns being thrown at them, quite rightly, it is about time, there is | :04:16. | :04:18. | |
something else going on that maybe we are not being let in on. There is | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
a change in the mood in the nationalist camp. There is an | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
incredible amount of churn in these polls that makes me suspicious. If | :04:27. | :04:29. | |
you look at the difference between the YouGov poll at the weekend and | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
today, women have gone from being more favourable to yes two against | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
it again. Young people, under 25, big support for yes at the weekend | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
but now they are quite a start Stan shall no vote. That makes me very | :04:44. | :04:51. | |
suspicious about these polls. -- a substantial no vote. They are | :04:52. | :04:58. | |
dealing with a bigger turnout than we have usually seen. People are | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
registering to vote in unprecedented numbers. There is no way of telling | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
what that means. The yes camp hopes that all of those people who do not | :05:07. | :05:09. | |
normally vote will be leaning towards the yes side, but I do not | :05:10. | :05:12. | |
think it is that predictable. They could go either way. It does put the | :05:13. | :05:19. | |
polls in the difficult position. The don't knows are down to four present | :05:20. | :05:28. | |
in the latest poll. I am asked on this day are still out there! How | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
much information do they need? This has been going on for years. Make up | :05:33. | :05:42. | |
your minds! Whatever poll you look at, they are all within a | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
statistical margin of error. The result could go either way. With | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
only six days to go the outcome of the most important constitutional | :05:52. | :05:54. | |
decision in the Union's 300-year-old history is on a knife edge. This was | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
not always the case. It was one opinion poll last weekend | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
that really set this contest alike, with YouGov putting the yes campaign | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
ahead for the first time. There are plenty of different surveys out | :06:09. | :06:11. | |
there, all telling a slightly different stories. Luckily for us, | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
John Curtis has put together a poll of polls that shows just how tight | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
this race has become. Based on the average of six keep owls, if we look | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
back to the end of last year, public opinion in Scotland looked settled | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
and the no campaign had a commanding lead. | :06:32. | :06:34. | |
At one point at the end of last year, 63% backed no and only 37% | :06:35. | :06:41. | |
voted eight -- supported a yes vote. Moving up to this week, you can see | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
a clear trend emerging as the no lead gets narrower. The recent polls | :06:47. | :06:53. | |
have it hanging in the balance. The most recent up-to-date figures put | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
yes on 48 armed no on 52, which in polling terms close to call. Because | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
there is often a pot with polling, most recent headlines have been | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
generated by survey results which excluded people who said they did | :07:07. | :07:09. | |
not know if Scotland should be independent. This final week of the | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
campaign could prove decisive, if it can persuade those all-important | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
undecided voters. It'll all come too late to influence those who have | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
already voted, because a record number, almost 20% of registered | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
voters, asked to do so I vote and may have already cast their ballot. | :07:28. | :07:39. | |
We are joined now by Joe Twyman, who has travelled up with us. How | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
seriously should we take these polls? They are having a huge effect | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
on the campaign. It was because of a poll that TM queues was cancelled | :07:50. | :07:56. | |
and they all came north. -- 's Prime Minister's Questions. Why are they | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
all over the place? What has happened, if you are looking at the | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
long-term trends, within different companies, you see that the story is | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
pretty consistent. That is that the no campaign was ahead for some time | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
and then around about the start of August, things started to change | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
with the debates. Since then there has been a decline in support for | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
know and growth in support for yes. Recently we have seen a reaction to | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
that and, roll out the cliche, it is too close to call. Your company had | :08:34. | :08:39. | |
the yes campaign, 53-47 at the weekend, now it is no, 52-48. That | :08:40. | :08:46. | |
could be explained in a statistical margin of error. That is the normal | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
probability and no one can abolish it. It actually could still be that | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
the yes campaign is in head? -- head? It is all to play for and we | :08:58. | :09:05. | |
could see yes victory or no victory next week. We just don't know. When | :09:06. | :09:12. | |
is the next poll coming. On the eve of poll prediction on Wednesday. Are | :09:13. | :09:19. | |
you confident that you are using the right polling techniques? Unlike | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
general elections, where you have got a statistical series and people | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
you can go back to how you -- who you know have voted before, you have | :09:28. | :09:33. | |
nothing to compare it against. We have historical data on political | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
attitudes. Whether it was how they voted in the Holyrood election or | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
the European elections, who they politically identify with. This goes | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
into the mix to compare it against. We have historical data on political | :09:45. | :09:46. | |
attitudes. Whether it was how they voted in the Holyrood election or | :09:47. | :09:48. | |
the European elections, who they politically identify with. This goes | :09:49. | :09:50. | |
into the mix too alarmist to, hopefully, accurately model the | :09:51. | :09:52. | |
outcome on Thursday. -- goes into the mix to allow us to. Alex Salmond | :09:53. | :09:58. | |
is as -- is ahead in a lot of major demographics but in the younger of | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
the young people and the over 60s, he is trailing. That is right. It is | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
an area where he needs to make inroads, particularly among older | :10:09. | :10:11. | |
people. I crossed the duration of the campaign, they have staunchly | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
been positioning themselves in favour of no. They make up a large | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
proportion of the electorate and are most likely to vote. People are | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
talking about a high possible turnout for this referendum. " | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
back, 93% turned out, which is astonishingly high. -- Quebec. It | :10:30. | :10:37. | |
makes the over 60s particularly important. It is going to be over | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
80% turnout, isn't it? I would expect so, probably well over. I do | :10:42. | :10:48. | |
not know if it will help either side. I think there is a hope that | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
some of the disenfranchised will vote on the yes side, and they will | :10:53. | :11:03. | |
vote because they do not like the current Westminster representation. | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
If they turn out there is a feeling they will be likely to vote for | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
change rather than the status quo. A few anecdotal reports have found | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
that, that a lot of the people who do not normally vote at all because | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
they hate politics or politicians, registered this vote time -- have | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
registered to vote this time and are leaning towards yes. I heard a taxi | :11:25. | :11:34. | |
driver saying that, that he had not voted from the election. The poll | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
that came out a couple of days ago was the same as it had been a month | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
ago. It is the YouGov poll jumping all over the place. And the TNS | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
poll, which is a face-to-face survey. They are both showing the | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
same trend, the decline. Is there not also the phenomenon, the shy | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
Tory phenomenon, that people do not want to admit they are voting no | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
because it is seen as unpatriotic. Yes, and this is something you have | :12:06. | :12:07. | |
to take account of. You have to Yes, and this is something you have | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
model your analysis to make sure you are doing all you can to tease | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
model your analysis to make sure you that information from people. If it | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
was easy, anyone could do it. These days, almost anyone can! | :12:20. | :12:22. | |
was easy, anyone could do it. These us. With the polls as tight as ebony | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
is Scrooge, what is the key battle ground? Most Scots live in cities or | :12:28. | :12:30. | |
a large towns. Dundee is thought to be sewn up with a Yesil, Edinburgh | :12:31. | :12:38. | |
Strong for a no vote. Glasgow is emerging as a key battle ground. For | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
years a Labour Party fiefdom, but the yes campaign has been making | :12:44. | :12:46. | |
inroads and Labour has been struggling to hold on to what was | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
once it's party faithful. We said Adam out onto its streets. | :12:52. | :12:58. | |
The referendum battle is in full swing in the East End of Glasgow, | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
but you know what they say, an army marches on its stomach. I have just | :13:03. | :13:09. | |
bought one of these - Scotch pie. The problem is that people eat too | :13:10. | :13:12. | |
many of these and this area has become infamous as having one of the | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
lowest life expectancy is anywhere in the UK. -- expectancies. Tasty, | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
though! in the UK. -- expectancies. Tasty, | :13:20. | :13:28. | |
place where she grew up has in the UK. -- expectancies. Tasty, | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
neglected and it is time for a change. This is the biggest building | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
in my street. It is the Jobcentre. The biggest building in this street | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
is the Jobcentre. The pub is shot. The Jobcentre is huge. , and have a | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
look at how big this Jobcentre is. That is how big it is. That is big | :13:48. | :13:55. | |
for a Jobcentre. If we get independence, build a community | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
centre as big so we have something to look forward to something to do, | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
not just somewhere to get penalised if you do not fill in our forum or | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
don't turn up for a interview. -- fill in a form. The polls suggest | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
more and more working class Labour supporters are going to vote yes. As | :14:13. | :14:20. | |
I found out in the tattoo parlour! We have had interest with ten people | :14:21. | :14:26. | |
already going for a yes tattoo. And how many have gone for the no? | :14:27. | :14:36. | |
None. Needles the no campaign! I found the yes campaign knocking on | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
doors with a local Labour councillor. We need to take the | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
political parties out. It is a referendum to decide, do we stay or | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
do we break up? Nevertheless, why do people think that Labour didn't do | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
very much for them? I mean, they were 13 years in power. I don't | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
understand it. There has been a lot of input. And what about the fact | :15:02. | :15:10. | |
that nobody wants Better Together tattooed on them? If you are yes, | :15:11. | :15:17. | |
you do not want to change. If you do not want to change it is harder to | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
show what you support. So you would not get a no tattoo in the last | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
week? If it would make the difference, I would! And they just | :15:27. | :15:32. | |
might among the mums and dads at football training. It turns out a | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
lot of them still have not made up their mind. | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
A lot of people are still undecided, one day it could be yes, then it | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
could change. When do you think people will | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
decide? On the day. I think there will be a | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
lot of changed minds on the day. These last few days leading up to | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
Thursday will be crucial. The final whistle hasn't blown. | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
Certainly not. To borrow a phrase, there is still plenty to play for | :16:04. | :16:10. | |
with Glasgow's East Enders. We are joined now by the man in | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
charge of the Better Together campaign, Alistair Darling. | :16:15. | :16:19. | |
When I interviewed Jim Murphy, your colleague, he described your running | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
of the campaign as brilliant. A campaign that has gone from a 22 | :16:25. | :16:32. | |
points lead, to nip and tuck. And if you had held onto that 22 points | :16:33. | :16:35. | |
lead? I said a year ago it would go down | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
to the wire. It is not surprising. The biggest | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
single position most of us will ever take. If we decide to leave, there | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
is no going back. It is not surprising people are moving around. | :16:50. | :16:56. | |
Did you know that the lead but go from 22 points, down to zero, at | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
which nothing you can do about it? I did say a year ago that it would | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
narrow, and it is not surprising. I said it would go down. | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
Surely, if you knew, your campaign would stop that from happening? | :17:13. | :17:19. | |
The arguments in this campaign, the emotional and economic arguments, | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
have been around the nearly three years. | :17:24. | :17:26. | |
What I do think is, in the last week, that poll at the weekend has | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
galvanised people who realise how high the stakes are. | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
This week, it could become clearer that we can have the change that we | :17:37. | :17:42. | |
want within the UK, we can do it better, faster and more secure | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
without the risks. Also, people are beginning to | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
concentrate on what the risks are in terms of the prices we pay in shops, | :17:52. | :17:57. | |
jobs, security, payment of pensions, NHS. Which is why the we should win. | :17:58. | :18:05. | |
If you knew this narrowing was going to take place, why did you wait | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
until the yes campaign had overtaken you in one poll, with less than two | :18:10. | :18:16. | |
weeks to go, before you rolled out this home rule blueprint? | :18:17. | :18:18. | |
You should have rolled it out long before? | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
People are less interested in the process is in this campaign. | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
You going to wait until they cast their vote? | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
The fact that the non-nationalist parties were promising change, and | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
the fact we can do it in a better way within the security of the UK, | :18:36. | :18:41. | |
faster because we will have the years of wrangling gone, and more | :18:42. | :18:48. | |
secure. These are things concentrating our minds. | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
What I am asking is, why did you wait so long? | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
You can only conclude it was panic. I don't agree with you. | :18:57. | :19:02. | |
Why did you wait? What is more important, what we are voted on next | :19:03. | :19:08. | |
week, and the majority of people in Scotland do want that change within | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
the UK, they do not want the risks of independence. The other | :19:14. | :19:16. | |
interesting thing, if you listen to Alex Salmond who is flying around in | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
a helicopter, while most people on the ground are bothered about the | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
announcements of headquarters moving, supermarkets saying we would | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
have to pay more, those other things which will concentrate our minds as | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
we put our cross on the ballot. The biggest decision any of us will | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
take. We have said it several times. You | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
have been critical of the yes campaign further lack of clarity. | :19:46. | :19:51. | |
Now you have this home rule blueprint, we need clarity. Let me | :19:52. | :19:59. | |
ask you. How much income tax will be devolved to Scotland? | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
Under our proposals at the moment... Yes, between 40% and 50%. | :20:05. | :20:14. | |
What is important is each political party has put forward proposals in | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
the same place. Here we are less than a week to go. | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
I don't know what currency we will be using in a week. | :20:23. | :20:30. | |
These are the questions. I am interviewing the no campaign. Will | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
the Scottish Parliament have control over oil revenues? | :20:37. | :20:39. | |
No, none of the political parties are doing that. The advantages we | :20:40. | :20:45. | |
have at the moment, we have control over health and education, | :20:46. | :20:46. | |
transport. It is better that the payment of | :20:47. | :20:52. | |
pensions should be a UK business ability. With a rising ageing | :20:53. | :20:59. | |
population, we take that burden across 63 million people, not 5 | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
million. You can contribute at a Scottish and UK level. | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
The powers we see coming to the Scottish Parliament will mean we | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
will have more powers than many federal governments that people look | :21:12. | :21:18. | |
at. I understand. Is it only income tax? | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
We don't know how much? As I said, the difference between | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
the parties is about 10%. We know with the yes campaign we get | :21:29. | :21:35. | |
100%, that is exact. That is clarity. Equally, you know | :21:36. | :21:41. | |
you will lose the ?1200 extra a year per head of population in Scotland. | :21:42. | :21:49. | |
You would have a country that is dependent on 15% of its revenues | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
from oil, the prices of which are volatile. Ian Wood, an expert, has | :21:54. | :21:59. | |
made the point in 20 years the production will have run down. For | :22:00. | :22:06. | |
that one source of revenue, it is putting jobs, so much at risk. It is | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
not surprising that people are saying no, thanks. | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
Has Ed Balls signed off on this demolition of income tax? | :22:16. | :22:18. | |
The Labour Party has agreed an event we have put forward. I am part of | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
the Labour Party. Where does Ed Balls agree on the | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
record? I understand what you are trying to | :22:28. | :22:33. | |
do. The Labour Party, the Liberal party and the Conservative Party | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
have put forward proposals. We have a procedure which means by January | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
next year we will have registration, as opposed to years of wrangling if | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
we leave the UK. I know Europe pretty well. They | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
don't decide anything quickly. That uncertainty would cost jobs and make | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
Scotland even more insecure. You know Ed Balls. One of his great | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
concerns is tax competition. If you have separate regimes in London and | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
Edinburgh setting different taxes, there will be a race to the bottom. | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
That is why I am asking this legitimate question. | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
I am saying, yes, you are right about tax condition. The only tax | :23:18. | :23:23. | |
proposal the Nationalists are making is to reduce corporation tax to 3p | :23:24. | :23:28. | |
less than that fixed by the UK. That is a race to the bottom it is not a | :23:29. | :23:39. | |
distributive policy. The only people getting a tax break our large | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
corporations. Is it fair you can promise in the | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
dying days of a campaign further major constitutional change for | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
Scotland, and yet not consult the rest of the UK and find out what | :23:53. | :23:56. | |
they think about this and what it should mean to them? | :23:57. | :24:02. | |
These proposals were made some months ago. You are right that | :24:03. | :24:07. | |
earlier this week Carwyn Jones, the First Minister of Wales, said he | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
wanted greater powers in Wales. And England? There is a big argument | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
about transferring particularly economic powers to the English | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
cities outside London. Why can't people in England have the | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
same powers to determine their education and health and income tax | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
as you are about to give the Scots? As we know, the constitutional | :24:32. | :24:34. | |
argument in Scotland has been raging for 40 years and has not been | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
replicated south of the border. It could be now. | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
None of us should be afraid of changing the way things are run. | :24:44. | :24:49. | |
However... Let me ask you, are you saying that Scotland can have all | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
this extra tax-raising power within the UK, and other powers moved as | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
well. And yet, there will still be the same number of MPs from Scotland | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
in Westminster, and you won't answer the West Lothian Scotland, Scottish | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
MPs will still be able to vote on English only matters. | :25:09. | :25:16. | |
Seven governments -- successive governments have been struggling to | :25:17. | :25:19. | |
that question. That is a constitutional debate. | :25:20. | :25:26. | |
What I am concentrating on in the next six days is trying to persuade | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
a majority of my fellow country people that our best future is | :25:31. | :25:36. | |
secured by staying in the UK. Isn't the harsh truth of your | :25:37. | :25:45. | |
position in this historically Labour country, a symbolic failure of the | :25:46. | :25:47. | |
Labour Party? It is not. You have presided over a | :25:48. | :25:56. | |
corrupt 1-party fiefdom, riven by tribal warfare, half of you don't | :25:57. | :25:59. | |
speak to the other, half do not speak to you. Doug Alexander does | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
not speak to Gordon Brown. This is rubbish. No political party | :26:05. | :26:11. | |
in Scotland or anywhere else in the UK can take any group of people... | :26:12. | :26:18. | |
There is tribal warfare. You are in decline! | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
This is nonsense. People said that before the local elections in | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
Glasgow in 2012. Guess what, we want with a majority. | :26:27. | :26:34. | |
Glasgow, this Labour city, is a battle ground. | :26:35. | :26:36. | |
Every part of Scotland is a battle ground. Every part of Scotland. You | :26:37. | :26:42. | |
cannot make those Sumption is, well you know it, I can see you laughing. | :26:43. | :26:49. | |
This is something that is dividing people. Passionate arguments. The | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
decision we have to make, not just for our generation. | :26:55. | :27:01. | |
Forever. Have you ever mentioned in this campaign to defend the union | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
that Scotland belongs to the UK and is the fastest-growing economy in | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
the western world? Our economy is recovering. I have | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
mentioned that. As a former Chancellor, I am asked regularly. | :27:15. | :27:23. | |
The economy is growing. I hope this recovery is well founded. There are | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
big questions to be asked, especially as in Europe it is | :27:29. | :27:31. | |
stagnating. I have my differences with the present Government. The | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
bigger question is, how do we make sure it is a fair recovery so | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
everyone feels the benefit, not just some. It is an argument in Scotland | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
and the UK. I do differ from some people. But | :27:47. | :27:53. | |
the key thing is, for Scotland, are we going to be better off breaking | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
away with all of those uncertainties? Or have the best of | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
both worlds, a strong Scottish Government, a strong economy, I | :28:04. | :28:06. | |
don't want to see all those companies being forced out of | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
Scotland because we will rue the day once you lose headquarters and lose | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
decision making. What do you make of that? | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
I think the questions you were asking about the proposed new | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
devolution settlement are pertinent. Alistair knows and he won't be able | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
to say it now, he knows perfectly well we could have had a question | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
about extending and improved devolution on the ballot paper back | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
in 2012. Alex Salmond is a realistic politician and has always known. | :28:38. | :28:43. | |
The first question is, are we staying in the UK? | :28:44. | :28:48. | |
No, it isn't the first question. No, it isn't. You know there are plenty | :28:49. | :28:55. | |
of people in Scotland who will only vote for a continuing UK if it is | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
going to be a very different UK. There are all sorts of problems the | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
Westminster democracy need addressing. | :29:04. | :29:10. | |
As someone who does not believe in any more devolution, they are going | :29:11. | :29:13. | |
to do it. The Prime Minister said it. | :29:14. | :29:18. | |
The Prime Minister wants this. I am astonished, but he wants different | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
tax rates throughout the whole of the UK. I am afraid they are going | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
to do it. The final point? | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
Coming back to Joyce. I know we are on different sides. | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
If you take Alex Salmond and his claim at face value that he wanted a | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
currency union, it would mean Scottish policies would be decided | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
in the very country you have broken away from. That is nonsense. That is | :29:44. | :29:49. | |
why we will win. Back to London. | :29:50. | :29:55. | |
For many of you watching in England, Wales or Northern Ireland, you may | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
be thinking what it has got to do with you? Rather a lot because | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
whichever way Scotland boats, the country will get new powers. Which | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
has led to calls for more powers to be handed to the other countries | :30:09. | :30:09. | |
that make up Welcome to my guests. Leanne Wood, | :30:10. | :30:23. | |
you have been campaigning in Scotland as the polls have narrowed. | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
As much as you might want independent for Wales you except | :30:28. | :30:29. | |
there is not the same appetite there as there is in Scotland? We are on | :30:30. | :30:37. | |
very different journeys and we are very different countries. Scotland | :30:38. | :30:40. | |
started out with much more devolution in 1997 than we did in | :30:41. | :30:48. | |
Wales. The criminal justice system was devolved, as was the education | :30:49. | :30:53. | |
service. I am confident we are on the same journey, but at different | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
places. Yes, I have been up in Scotland. One of the most exciting | :30:58. | :31:02. | |
things about the campaign there is the grassroots nature of the | :31:03. | :31:06. | |
campaign, and the fact that we have talked as politicians for such a | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
long time about the problem of apathy and the lack of engagement | :31:11. | :31:16. | |
amongst citizens in politics when, in Scotland, there is very little | :31:17. | :31:19. | |
apathy that I could see and Argosy seems to have been reborn. So, | :31:20. | :31:25. | |
whatever the outcome of the results on 18th September, something very | :31:26. | :31:28. | |
special has happened there and I think it would be great if that | :31:29. | :31:31. | |
could continue and could be replicated here in Wales as well. | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
John Redwood, you want a separate English Parliament. How many of your | :31:37. | :31:42. | |
Conservative colleagues agree? The overwhelming majority of | :31:43. | :31:43. | |
Conservative parliamentarians and membership want to solve the English | :31:44. | :31:48. | |
problem. If Scotland is going to have a lot more powers, and we must | :31:49. | :31:51. | |
honour the pledge, though I hope they stay with us, England needs the | :31:52. | :31:55. | |
same powers. We need an English Parliament at Westminster and we | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
should do it in an economical way. I am happy to go on being an English | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
MP as well as a union MP, as I am at the moment. We need to make our own | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
decisions that parallel the decisions the Scottish parliament is | :32:08. | :32:11. | |
making in Scotland. That is the one thing where the SNP and I agree. How | :32:12. | :32:21. | |
would it work in practice? Would use it for a limited number of days each | :32:22. | :32:24. | |
week, or would it be an entirely separate parliament in addition to | :32:25. | :32:27. | |
Westminster? It would be the English members of the Westminster | :32:28. | :32:28. | |
Parliament sitting as the parliament. There would be days when | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
it was English business, so colleagues from other parts of the | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
union need not attend. We would do all the other things in England that | :32:37. | :32:39. | |
the Scottish Parliament does in Scotland. I am fed up with this | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
lopsided devolution, this unfettered evolution. Scotland gets first-class | :32:44. | :32:51. | |
devolution, Wales get second-class and England gets nothing. If Wales | :32:52. | :32:54. | |
was the same of us, they should have it, and we would have commonality | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
and we could discuss and decide in our own assemblies and parliaments | :33:00. | :33:02. | |
all those things that are devolved. It comes back to whether people want | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
it, Leanne Wood. Only around one in ten people agree in Wales that there | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
should be independence. When it comes to more powers for the Welsh | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
Assembly, only around 40% of people wanted that in a poll earlier this | :33:16. | :33:21. | |
year. Whether it is apathy or satisfaction, people are happy with | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
the status quo. At the moment you are right, but things can change | :33:27. | :33:29. | |
ferry quickly. Can I just agree with the point that was just made by John | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
Redwood - England does need to decide what it needs to do now and | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
should have self-determination, but the best way of achieving that is if | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
Scotland votes yes. What we know from previous experiences, back in | :33:43. | :33:50. | |
1999 Margaret thatcher said that if Scotland voted no in that | :33:51. | :33:54. | |
referendum, additional powers would be granted. -- Margaret Thatcher. | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
The only way Scotland will get more powers and the way England will have | :33:59. | :34:01. | |
this debate and Wales will get the settlement we need is to -- if | :34:02. | :34:08. | |
Scotland votes yes on 18th September. John Woodward, are you a | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
fan of the plan for federalism for the UK that Nick Clegg has | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
suggested? We have heard Alistair Darling saying more economic powers | :34:20. | :34:22. | |
should be transferred to cities in England. I do not see a groundswell | :34:23. | :34:28. | |
of opinion from the public saying, let's have more bureaucracy. They | :34:29. | :34:32. | |
are insulting England. England is a great country, as Scotland is. I | :34:33. | :34:35. | |
find now that most English people want there to be fairness and | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
justice. We accept there is going to be more home-rule or self-government | :34:42. | :34:47. | |
in Scotland. We want the same for ourselves. It may be that being rich | :34:48. | :34:50. | |
parliament will want to delegate more powers to the cities, though I | :34:51. | :34:59. | |
note that there may be a referendum about mayors. -- the English | :35:00. | :35:06. | |
Parliament will want to delegate. The fundamental issues about how | :35:07. | :35:09. | |
high income tax is going to be will not be settled separately in | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
Manchester and Bradford, it will be settled by the Jewish Parliament. It | :35:13. | :35:15. | |
could not be settled by the Parliament of the union with | :35:16. | :35:23. | |
Scottish MPs voting on tax in England but not in Scotland. Was | :35:24. | :35:29. | |
there a panic in your mind that there was too much offered to | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
Scotland in the closing days of the campaign? I accept Allah stalag -- | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
Alistair Darling's point about offering more devolution and then | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
they accelerated timetable. I am speaking in a way for my party, | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
because my party fought the last election saying that in the United | :35:48. | :35:50. | |
Kingdom Parliament, in future, there are needed to be English votes for | :35:51. | :35:53. | |
English aces. In other words, there needs to be an English government at | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
Westminster for all those things Scotland has devolved power over. | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
What powers were July to see divorced to Wales if, for instance, | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
you were in power and the Prime Minister rang you up and he said, | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
this is the shopping list we would like. What would it be? There have | :36:13. | :36:19. | |
been numerous commissions, the latest being the Subcommission which | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
has proposed powers for Wales for criminal Justice, energy, tax | :36:25. | :36:34. | |
sharing. -- the Silk Commission. . We need to move on the | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
recommendations without cherry picking or the lock step which would | :36:41. | :36:43. | |
reduce tax powers. Then we need to move towards a system of | :36:44. | :36:46. | |
self-government. The days of devolution are over and there is a | :36:47. | :36:49. | |
consensus in Wales that the settlement that we have is not fit | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
for purpose and it is up to people to decide what powers they want to | :36:55. | :36:57. | |
hold in Wales and what powers they want to share with others as we move | :36:58. | :37:03. | |
on our journey towards the same situation as Scotland is embarking | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
upon next week, when they hold soft retreat for one day and decide | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
whether they get to keep it. -- when they hold sovereignty. What are you | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
going to do on 19th September, one we know the result of the | :37:17. | :37:22. | |
referendum. Whichever way it goes, what will you do with your campaign? | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
I will continue to be a voice for England. If Better Together wins, I | :37:28. | :37:33. | |
will press on the government a solution which is not just about | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
Scotland but also about England and if Wales and Northern Ireland wish, | :37:38. | :37:40. | |
for them as well. It would be neat to have the same powers for each | :37:41. | :37:48. | |
part of United Kingdom. It should be a United Kingdom Bill. There needs | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
to be enough home-rule in every part of the United Kingdom to satisfy | :37:53. | :37:55. | |
local opinion and that might turn out to be a similar amount in each | :37:56. | :38:06. | |
part of the United Kingdom. Why we have been on air we have | :38:07. | :38:09. | |
learned that the Reverend Ian Paisley has died at the age of 88. | :38:10. | :38:20. | |
Ian Paisley was one of the huge historic figures of Northern Ireland | :38:21. | :38:26. | |
at the heart of the troubles in the late 60s. His demonstrations | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
gathered pace. He was one of the leading Protestant firebrand against | :38:32. | :38:34. | |
any kind of arrangement with the Catholic population. " No surrender" | :38:35. | :38:42. | |
was his famous call. He was the figure that you had to take into | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
account in Belfast. He made life miserable for moderate Protestant | :38:48. | :38:50. | |
leaders who were trying to do a deal. Who would have thought that | :38:51. | :38:54. | |
after that history and at that time, and he got blamed for many of the | :38:55. | :39:00. | |
things that happened - the housing policy and the riots and | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
demonstrations, and the IRA uprising, but in the end as the | :39:06. | :39:09. | |
peace process took place, it was the Reverend Ian Paisley who sat down | :39:10. | :39:13. | |
with the IRA's Martin McGuinness to help form a new government. None of | :39:14. | :39:18. | |
us in Belfast at the time ever saw that coming. Indeed, Martin | :39:19. | :39:24. | |
McGuinness and Ian Paisley were so close that once did that people | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
called them the Chuckle Brothers. A defensive but major figure in | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
Northern Irish history has died today, the Reverend Ian Paisley, at | :39:34. | :39:36. | |
the age of 88. We have got a new opinion poll at | :39:37. | :39:42. | |
the referendum here in Scotland from Guardian ICM. It has the no vote on | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
51 and a yes vote on 49. Nip and tuck, very much the same. The YouGov | :39:48. | :39:58. | |
poll, nobody -- know is ahead for a third time this week but with a | :39:59. | :40:06. | |
statistical significance only. What I wanted to talk about, if it is a | :40:07. | :40:15. | |
no vote on the Westminster parties live up to their promise, surely it | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
is inconceivable you could have this matter further change in Scotland | :40:20. | :40:23. | |
without England, Wales, and Northern Ireland wanting their constitutions | :40:24. | :40:28. | |
change? This is the issue about the mishandling of this whole debate | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
about the campaign. The loss of the lead is down to it. London has not | :40:34. | :40:41. | |
paid enough attention to the debate or to the strength and range of it. | :40:42. | :40:47. | |
If there was going to become perhaps of reform of the kind that Gordon | :40:48. | :40:54. | |
Brown was talking about whilst using the word federalism, they would have | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
had to be on the case as soon as they saw the victory and the SNP | :40:59. | :41:07. | |
saying, we are going to look to a constitutional convention for the UK | :41:08. | :41:14. | |
and serious talk about the devolution. Have they done a? No. | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
The point is to think to themselves, why have they not done it? What is | :41:20. | :41:25. | |
the source of that complacency, that deafness, the lack of interest until | :41:26. | :41:37. | |
they saw the YouGov poll last week" Mike -- the YouGov poll last week. | :41:38. | :41:48. | |
There has to be a UK element to any constitutional change. That is why | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
there will have to be some sort of UK constitution. It is not about | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
kicking into touch by making it work. If it is done like the last | :41:59. | :42:03. | |
lot in 1999, which was Scotland only, it did not work because it | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
brought up the SNP upsurge. What needs to happen is for the whole of | :42:08. | :42:14. | |
the UK to devolve. The Welsh one more, the Irish would probably take | :42:15. | :42:17. | |
more as well. That have a UK solution. | :42:18. | :42:24. | |
Gordon Brown's home-rule blueprint was presented by him as without | :42:25. | :42:27. | |
consequences for Scotland in Westminster, but there will have -- | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
be strong demand south of the border in England. You do not need 59 MPs | :42:33. | :42:39. | |
in Westminster but they will say. And they will say, you have not to | :42:40. | :42:51. | |
vote on our issues. The SNP have a better solution than Labour adopted. | :42:52. | :42:57. | |
There has to be a UK element, an English element to devolution. You | :42:58. | :43:04. | |
would see how much work would be needed to see how to make that | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
viable at this stage. John Redwood is talking about an English | :43:09. | :43:11. | |
parliament, about Westminster sitting as an English Parliament. I | :43:12. | :43:17. | |
am sure there are huge regional interests in England raised by this | :43:18. | :43:23. | |
debate. They will say, what about devolution to the north-east, the | :43:24. | :43:29. | |
North East, the south-west? The big cities of the North, that is where | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
the that amount is coming from most. Let's go back to Jo Coburn. | :43:35. | :43:42. | |
The Nationalist and Wales next week's referendum will reinvigorate | :43:43. | :43:43. | |
their campaign for greater self-determination. They account for | :43:44. | :43:54. | |
about 35% of the UK population. The India stem of her holding their | :43:55. | :43:58. | |
conference this" believe it is the moment for England to go it alone. | :43:59. | :44:02. | |
-- conference this weekend and they believe. | :44:03. | :44:11. | |
We do look very fondly on the idea of being the equivalent of the SNP. | :44:12. | :44:17. | |
The difference, I suppose, is that English nationalism is not one to be | :44:18. | :44:20. | |
the same as Scottish or Welsh or Irish nationalism. -- not going to | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
be the same. We are individual to England. I wouldn't be presumptuous | :44:25. | :44:33. | |
enough to say I am the same as Alex Salmond. Until recently partly -- | :44:34. | :44:38. | |
party believed in a federal UK and you think it should be dissolved. | :44:39. | :44:43. | |
What has changed? We have come to the view that there is not good to | :44:44. | :44:46. | |
be a federal UK that looks after England's interests. Today we have | :44:47. | :44:51. | |
got Nick Clegg trying to trot out yet another version of regional eyes | :44:52. | :45:03. | |
Asian for England -- regionalisation for England. It is all part of a | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
Russian proposal to persuade people in need and not to vote yes in a | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
week's time. -- rushed proposal. Would you be the recipient, your | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
party would be the recipient, of votes from disillusioned English | :45:17. | :45:21. | |
voters who feel not enough is being done whichever way the Scots vote? | :45:22. | :45:23. | |
Will those go to UKIP? I think they will come to us, UKIP | :45:24. | :45:36. | |
is getting a proportion of that boat because people have not clearly | :45:37. | :45:40. | |
thought through that UKIP is a British Nationalist party and not an | :45:41. | :45:45. | |
English nationalist party. You said BNP supporters are joining | :45:46. | :45:49. | |
EU to become an electorally credible party. What did you mean? | :45:50. | :45:55. | |
What we were saying, really, it is we welcome genuine converts to | :45:56. | :46:00. | |
English nationalism wherever they come from. Our party has Members who | :46:01. | :46:09. | |
come from the left and the right. We are simply a new party. | :46:10. | :46:14. | |
Obviously, when you are new, you are looking to get people to come over | :46:15. | :46:18. | |
as converts to your cause. Is that because you do not appeal to | :46:19. | :46:22. | |
the mainstream? I think we do. In the last | :46:23. | :46:28. | |
elections, most of our candidates, in fact virtually all our | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
candidates, with one or two exceptions, were either previous | :46:34. | :46:37. | |
conservatives or previous Labour Party people. | :46:38. | :46:42. | |
It is just that the BBC focuses on that particular issue rather than on | :46:43. | :46:48. | |
the fact most of our people did not come from there. | :46:49. | :46:51. | |
Is there going to be a moment for your party on September the 19th, | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
the day after the Scottish referendum? | :46:57. | :46:59. | |
I think there will be, with either result. | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
We are now faced with the option of yes, in which case, clearly, the | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
whole question of England becomes that much more urgent which has to | :47:08. | :47:12. | |
be addressed. John Redwood has only just come out from English | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
Parliament, part of this movement to the thought that England has to be | :47:18. | :47:21. | |
properly looked after in the future. If it is no, that no longer means no | :47:22. | :47:28. | |
movement, it means this great surge of devo max. That hugely impacts on | :47:29. | :47:34. | |
the cottages null structure not just for Scotland, but for the whole of | :47:35. | :47:40. | |
the UK. England again needs to be properly represented. The British | :47:41. | :47:43. | |
political establishment is not doing that job. | :47:44. | :47:54. | |
We are joined now by Fiona Hyslop, a Member of the Scottish Polmont, and | :47:55. | :48:02. | |
Cabinet Secretary for Culture. -- Parliament. There are huge | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
uncertainties about the currency, currency union, the nature of EU | :48:07. | :48:13. | |
ownership, NATO ownership. Would it make more sense to accept this offer | :48:14. | :48:19. | |
further devolution including tax powers, so all the uncertainties go. | :48:20. | :48:25. | |
What do you think? There are uncertainties with both. | :48:26. | :48:29. | |
One of the 70s with the yes vote is that we get the Government we vote | :48:30. | :48:32. | |
for. This week, we have seen sheer panic. | :48:33. | :48:39. | |
Westminster parties taking the Scottish people for granted. | :48:40. | :48:43. | |
This isn't a blueprint but a timetable for the powers which have | :48:44. | :48:48. | |
already been announced. They are agreed they will give more | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
power. I accept you can't pin them down. There is a general mood to | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
devolve more power including income tax powers. If you do that, there is | :48:59. | :49:02. | |
no question about the currency. All monetary union. No question about EU | :49:03. | :49:11. | |
membership, pensions or NATO membership. That is guaranteed. If | :49:12. | :49:16. | |
we go your route, none of that is guaranteed. We can use the pound. | :49:17. | :49:25. | |
Not in a monetary union. Are we satisfied with some income tax? We | :49:26. | :49:30. | |
want job-creating powers. None of the towers include corporation tax | :49:31. | :49:39. | |
or employment -- powers. What people really want is making sure it works | :49:40. | :49:46. | |
for the people of Scotland, transforming childcare, job | :49:47. | :49:54. | |
creation. 100% of the powers, not this. | :49:55. | :49:56. | |
The negative effect of not knowing whether Scotland will have which | :49:57. | :50:07. | |
currency, monetary union, there could be far greater job destruction | :50:08. | :50:14. | |
than anything you could do. You are joining in this agenda which | :50:15. | :50:18. | |
is about fear mongering. What is the answer to my question. | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
The uncertainty of the no campaign, can you tell me whether we will be | :50:24. | :50:27. | |
within a referendum. The uncertainty of the no campaign, | :50:28. | :50:30. | |
can you tell me whether we will be within a referendum... Do not answer | :50:31. | :50:39. | |
with a question. You must the job destruction potential is huge. | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
The interests of the UK will be to have a ministry union. You cannot | :50:46. | :50:51. | |
guarantee by the Scotland will be in or out with David Cameron -- | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
monetary union. We have a choice of two futures. | :50:57. | :51:02. | |
Some will be uncertain. But that is my point. Big things | :51:03. | :51:09. | |
will be uncertain. People waking up to the wealth of | :51:10. | :51:17. | |
Scotland, GDP per head being more than France without oil... | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
So... We are in a strong position. People want the wealth of Scotland | :51:23. | :51:26. | |
to work for the people of Scotland. You claim this will be a richer | :51:27. | :51:32. | |
country. Why do you fail to win the document, the polls show only 21% of | :51:33. | :51:38. | |
Scots think they would be better off with independents. | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
People are waking up to the realisation of the reality. | :51:43. | :51:47. | |
Not with 21%. In terms of what I am getting back | :51:48. | :51:52. | |
is people are understanding Scotland is a far more wealthy country than | :51:53. | :51:55. | |
they were led to believe. So why only 20%? 50% think there | :51:56. | :52:02. | |
would be worse off. In terms of taxation, we have paid | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
more of our tax to the rest of the UK per head. We pay our own way. It | :52:08. | :52:15. | |
is about time we started to use the wealth of Scotland for the people of | :52:16. | :52:19. | |
Scotland. I am not arguing about that. You | :52:20. | :52:24. | |
haven't been paying more, that is what you said. | :52:25. | :52:29. | |
Over the last five years, we have been paying more than we receive. | :52:30. | :52:34. | |
Aren't people write to wonder whether there would be worse off? | :52:35. | :52:40. | |
The Royal Bank of Scotland, Lloyds, TSB, Tesco, standard life, all say | :52:41. | :52:49. | |
they will move their headquarters. That is absolutely wrong. They are | :52:50. | :52:54. | |
not saying they are moving. You in the BBC should know. Nick Robinson | :52:55. | :53:02. | |
was told the registration office is not their headquarters. RBS has | :53:03. | :53:05. | |
issued a letter to their staff saying it has no intention of moving | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
their jobs. Yes, it is not their intention. | :53:10. | :53:14. | |
I have constituents who do not want to hear from the BBC scaremongering. | :53:15. | :53:21. | |
You know as well as I do... With registered offices, with | :53:22. | :53:26. | |
headquarters, come the best jobs, the top legal jobs, the top | :53:27. | :53:30. | |
accountancy, the top banking jobs. If you start to lose these jobs, the | :53:31. | :53:35. | |
other things go. If the people running the country are not based in | :53:36. | :53:39. | |
President Oleksandr Turchynov the company are not based in | :53:40. | :53:50. | |
Scotland... -- if the people running the company are not based in | :53:51. | :53:55. | |
Scotland. You could reduce corporation tax to | :53:56. | :54:02. | |
make us competitive, a fuel price regulator, make supermarkets have a | :54:03. | :54:08. | |
lower cost base. This is about the competitive environment you could | :54:09. | :54:14. | |
have with a yes vote. An opportunity where we can have our | :54:15. | :54:18. | |
wealth working for the people of Scotland. Nobody should | :54:19. | :54:23. | |
scaremonger. You don't think it matters major | :54:24. | :54:28. | |
Scottish institutions with the name Scotland in them are worried about | :54:29. | :54:32. | |
the uncertainties of Scottish independence? | :54:33. | :54:37. | |
I used to work for Standard AMSA life, in 1997, they said they were | :54:38. | :54:48. | |
questioning policies -- Standard Life. I want a competitive Scotland. | :54:49. | :54:58. | |
I have seen the comments from Aberdeen asset management saying | :54:59. | :55:03. | |
they believe Scotland can be successful. | :55:04. | :55:08. | |
We live in a global economy. I also know the opportunities we have the | :55:09. | :55:13. | |
Scotland to make the wealth work for Scotland will affect everybody and | :55:14. | :55:18. | |
every sector. Whether it is chemical industries, energy. | :55:19. | :55:26. | |
You have made the NHS a key issue, it would only be safe from cuts from | :55:27. | :55:33. | |
privatisation in an independent Scotland. Under your Government, how | :55:34. | :55:41. | |
much of that would help increase spending in Scotland? | :55:42. | :55:44. | |
There has been a real increase under this Government. How much? A real | :55:45. | :55:51. | |
terms increase. A real terms increase which has helped to | :55:52. | :55:56. | |
protect... According to this data, you have cut | :55:57. | :56:01. | |
health spending in real terms by 1%. | :56:02. | :56:04. | |
No, we have not cut health spending. Whereas the British Government has | :56:05. | :56:10. | |
increased health spending by 4%. We have record numbers of employees | :56:11. | :56:14. | |
in the health service. Why have you cut spending? | :56:15. | :56:15. | |
We have other countries looking Why have you cut spending? | :56:16. | :56:21. | |
us for patient safety. Why have you cut spending? | :56:22. | :56:25. | |
We have free health care, free prescriptions, far more nurses | :56:26. | :56:31. | |
working in Scotland now. Why do the independent figures | :56:32. | :56:34. | |
showed that health spending in real terms is down under your Government? | :56:35. | :56:39. | |
No, the health spending under the Scottish Government has increased in | :56:40. | :56:45. | |
real terms. The risk to the health service is growing privatisation | :56:46. | :56:53. | |
within England. Rolling back the state on the health service will | :56:54. | :56:56. | |
have a long-term effect in terms of the amount of money coming to | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
Scotland. Privatisation, are you saying to me | :57:02. | :57:05. | |
at the Scottish Government has not privatised any health care? | :57:06. | :57:12. | |
We took the help cleaning contracts back in-house. | :57:13. | :57:18. | |
Have you not privatised anything? You have privatised your obesity | :57:19. | :57:21. | |
strategy to Weight Watchers. Less than 1% of the Scottish | :57:22. | :57:27. | |
Government's health budget... Have you privatised that? | :57:28. | :57:36. | |
Have you privatised that or not? If one health board is making a | :57:37. | :57:41. | |
decision, that is up to then. Less than 1% of the Scottish health | :57:42. | :57:45. | |
budget is in private contract. How much does the NHS spent on | :57:46. | :57:50. | |
private subcontractors? In terms of protecting the NHS, we | :57:51. | :57:56. | |
have two disconnect the budget from the Scottish Government from the | :57:57. | :57:59. | |
health budget in the UK. The only way to ensure the growing | :58:00. | :58:03. | |
privatisation in the UK health service does not impact. | :58:04. | :58:09. | |
You spend half ?1 billion on privatised health contractors. | :58:10. | :58:12. | |
Less than 1% of the Scottish budget. The principle is there. | :58:13. | :58:17. | |
When we have had the opportunity to change policies, that is why we took | :58:18. | :58:21. | |
the private health cleaning contracts... | :58:22. | :58:28. | |
You privatised Scottish health functions. | :58:29. | :58:32. | |
We have to make sure we keep it within the principles established, | :58:33. | :58:36. | |
free from the point of delivery. The 2012 health care act in England | :58:37. | :58:42. | |
takes that responsibility away from the UK Health Minister. | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
We retain that responsibility. Would you get the contract back from | :58:48. | :58:50. | |
Weight Watchers? Maybe you need to talk to the health | :58:51. | :58:54. | |
board yourself. That is it for today. We will be | :58:55. | :58:59. | |
back on Sunday and again on Monday, we hope to see you then. | :59:00. | :59:01. |