18/09/2014 Daily Politics


18/09/2014

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 18/09/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

THEME MUSIC .

:00:09.:00:37.

On the day the people of Scotland head to the polls to determine

:00:38.:00:43.

They're expected to vote in record numbers.

:00:44.:00:50.

Alex Salmond and Alistair Darling led the way this morning to

:00:51.:00:52.

the polling booths, where they face one simple question.

:00:53.:00:54.

Should Scotland be an independent country?

:00:55.:00:56.

The US House of Representatives has approved

:00:57.:01:02.

President Obama's plan to arm and train moderate Syrian rebels.

:01:03.:01:06.

But is the international community doing enough to drive back IS?

:01:07.:01:12.

Is the House of Lords getting too big for it's boots?

:01:13.:01:15.

It's certainly not getting any smaller and there are calls

:01:16.:01:22.

And I'm a politician, get me out of here.

:01:23.:01:26.

We'll be asking what it must be like governing from the Aussie outback.

:01:27.:01:36.

All that in the next hour and with us for the duration former

:01:37.:01:39.

Foreign Office Minister, and former Deputy Secretary General of the

:01:40.:01:41.

First to Scotland, where 97% of those elligible to vote

:01:42.:01:49.

That's 4.3 million registered voters.

:01:50.:01:55.

The turnout is expected to be much higher than a general election.

:01:56.:01:58.

We don't talk issues on voting day but let's cross to the BBC's

:01:59.:02:01.

Assistant Political Editor, Norman Smith in Glasgow to talk logistics.

:02:02.:02:09.

Norman, have we seen early signs yet of this predicted big turnout? I

:02:10.:02:18.

think we have actually, Andrew, certainly if you think of most

:02:19.:02:21.

general elections, early doors in the morning they are usually one man

:02:22.:02:26.

and a dog at the polling station. The polling stations here have had

:02:27.:02:30.

queues outside them really, not all of them, but quite a lot have had

:02:31.:02:34.

queueing outside them from early in the morning which would suggest yes,

:02:35.:02:38.

this indeed will be a huge turnout. The weather is you know, dry and

:02:39.:02:43.

mild, although frankly searches the intensity of the debate even if it

:02:44.:02:47.

was snowing and hailstorms people would still go to the polls! If you

:02:48.:02:54.

look at the postal vote, something like 80% of those has been

:02:55.:02:58.

returned. In Edinburgh, the City Council are saying 89% of postal

:02:59.:03:03.

votes have been returned. We are on course I think for the biggest

:03:04.:03:07.

turnout possibly we have seen in any election in the UK or Scotland. What

:03:08.:03:14.

we are seeing today, frankly, is an extraordinarily, the huge effort by

:03:15.:03:19.

both sides to try to make sure they get the vote out. Such is the

:03:20.:03:22.

closeness of the polls, this may well hinge on which side is better

:03:23.:03:33.

able to get out of the vote. The no say they have volunteers in every

:03:34.:03:37.

single council ward, the yes campaign say they have 20,000

:03:38.:03:40.

volunteers knocking on doors and helping people to the polling

:03:41.:03:45.

stations. There is an old quote which goes along the lines of, in

:03:46.:03:50.

politics, ideas is important but organisation is even more

:03:51.:03:53.

important. Translated into the modern context this means, is that

:03:54.:03:57.

you got to get your vote out. At the end of the day that could actually

:03:58.:04:00.

be the deciding factor despite the months of the arguments. The polling

:04:01.:04:10.

stations will close at ten o'clock, if they are still queueing, have

:04:11.:04:17.

they made any provision for that? If you turn of the last minute and you

:04:18.:04:20.

are in the queue, you are OK, you will still get to vote, it is not

:04:21.:04:24.

like the shutter comes down at ten o'clock and you miss your

:04:25.:04:28.

once-in-a-lifetime chance. You'll still get the vote. In terms of the

:04:29.:04:31.

results, they will start coming in from about two o'clock. The real

:04:32.:04:37.

benchmark moment, I think though, will not come until very late into

:04:38.:04:41.

the early morning, probably between 5-6 AM. We are expecting the results

:04:42.:04:48.

shortly after 6am, that is what accounting officer said. Five

:04:49.:04:50.

o'clock seems to me, if you are wanting to know when you should get

:04:51.:04:56.

up, I would get up at 5am. At five, we will get Edinburgh and Glasgow,

:04:57.:05:01.

together they make up about 20% of the vote. Glasgow may well be the

:05:02.:05:06.

critical factor. Whether the Labour vote in Glasgow holds up already

:05:07.:05:10.

goes to the Nationalists. We should get a result somewhere between 6-7.

:05:11.:05:17.

All sorts of wrinkles, there could be recounts and problems getting the

:05:18.:05:21.

votes out from the islands, it could be later. We want people to join us

:05:22.:05:29.

at 10:40pm, on BBC1 tonight, stick with us for the direction. LAUGHTER

:05:30.:05:37.

-- for the duration. Results will be declared in the 32 local districts

:05:38.:05:41.

in Scotland, a bit like a general election in that sense. Explain this

:05:42.:05:46.

to me: There can be a recount in each of the districts but there

:05:47.:05:49.

cannot be a recount on the total, is that right? If we have a result

:05:50.:05:57.

which says one side gets, I don't know, 49.5% of the vote and the

:05:58.:06:02.

other side gets 50.5%, and everybody says that's very close, let's

:06:03.:06:07.

recount. It's too late. One we get to the final numbers it is too late.

:06:08.:06:13.

You can only recount at the local level, only at the local level can

:06:14.:06:21.

you have the recount. You cannot do it on a national level, they would

:06:22.:06:24.

be done at the local authority level, it does not matter how close

:06:25.:06:28.

it is, even if it is decided by one vote that is the outcome. One vote

:06:29.:06:34.

could determine the future of Scotland and the United Kingdom. It

:06:35.:06:38.

will determine the future of the United Kingdom because there will be

:06:39.:06:41.

massive constitutional change, whatever happens. We will have to

:06:42.:06:46.

unpick pensions and welfare and defence, oil, debt, massive

:06:47.:06:51.

upheaval. With the No vote, there will be massive constitutional

:06:52.:06:54.

change too, it is hard to see how the English, Welsh and Northern

:06:55.:06:58.

Irish will say that's fine, you have more powers and we will sit and do

:06:59.:07:04.

nothing. Thank you for joining us try and grab some sleep before this

:07:05.:07:08.

evening. CHUCKLES I don't think there will be much

:07:09.:07:11.

sleep. No. CHUCKLES The former Labour Minister Alan

:07:12.:07:17.

Johnson has suggested Ed Miliband should have spent time doing

:07:18.:07:21.

something else before entering politics, so the question

:07:22.:07:24.

for today is: At the end of the show Mark

:07:25.:07:25.

will give us the correct answer. Overnight the US House of

:07:26.:07:38.

Representatives approved President Obama's plan to train and arm the

:07:39.:07:43.

moderate Syrian opposition taking It comes a week after the President

:07:44.:07:46.

outlined his new, broader strategy to combat the

:07:47.:07:51.

militant group which is operating Here the Foreign Secretary,

:07:52.:07:54.

Philip Hammond, has said the UK will play a "leading role" in the

:07:55.:08:01.

international effort to combat IS. What that role will be, is not yet

:08:02.:08:08.

clear. So far the US has carried out

:08:09.:08:13.

174 airstrikes across Iraq. The action has helped halt

:08:14.:08:16.

the advance of IS militants: in August Iraqi army and

:08:17.:08:21.

Kurdish Peshmerga forces, assisted by American airstrikes,

:08:22.:08:24.

recaptured the Mosul dam The UK has

:08:25.:08:26.

so far sent ?1.6 million worth of weapons and ammunition to

:08:27.:08:34.

the Kurdish Peshmerga forces who However, one British hostage,

:08:35.:08:37.

David Haines, has already been Another, Alan Henning,

:08:38.:08:43.

has also been threatened. Australia has also said it will send

:08:44.:08:47.

600 military personnel, including special forces troops,

:08:48.:09:00.

and eight fighter jets. Overnight President Obama won

:09:01.:09:05.

congressional approval for a 500 million dollar plan to arm

:09:06.:09:08.

the moderate Syrian opposition. But the president reiterated that he

:09:09.:09:13.

would not be committing US boots A little earlier I spoke to the

:09:14.:09:15.

Conservative MP Adam Holloway via Skype, so apologies for the quality

:09:16.:09:24.

of the line. He is on a fact-finding mission in northern Iraq. I asked

:09:25.:09:27.

him if he had seen the effects of So what the air strikes have done is

:09:28.:09:39.

they've made it impossible now for IS to form up together and hammer

:09:40.:09:45.

down the road to attack cities. Because it is too dangerous for them

:09:46.:09:49.

to congregate. They have been very important. Even so, 45 ministers not

:09:50.:09:56.

sound very far away, you must have spoken to residents of Irbil, how

:09:57.:10:02.

imminent do they think the threat still is? With my colleagues I went

:10:03.:10:08.

down to the front line a couple of days ago. It is very quiet down

:10:09.:10:13.

there. You can imagine. The Peshmerga, the local Kurdish

:10:14.:10:17.

forces, they are equipped for fighting in mountains, they are not

:10:18.:10:21.

equipped for fighting on the flat ground which is the front line. So

:10:22.:10:24.

they don't have the long-range weapons yet. So those air strikes

:10:25.:10:31.

are very, very important. As one Peshmerga commander put it to me, he

:10:32.:10:36.

said, we woke up one morning to find that we had a 1000 kilometre front

:10:37.:10:43.

line with the most dangerous organisation in the world, they need

:10:44.:10:49.

help. Do they need more weapons and ammunition than is being sent to

:10:50.:10:55.

them currently? There is a lot coming in. Overnight at the airport

:10:56.:11:01.

planes were arriving. Certainly on the front of line where we were at,

:11:02.:11:05.

the commander told us he had not got any additional weapons. But look,

:11:06.:11:10.

that is about defending the Kurdish areas. But this is not a military

:11:11.:11:18.

problem. This is a political problem... You know, we imagine that

:11:19.:11:23.

the answer to a problem like this, is just to bomb everyone, it's not.

:11:24.:11:29.

ISIS have not appeared and taken over this chunk of Iraq by accident,

:11:30.:11:35.

they have taken over by the -- because the Sunni groups were fed up

:11:36.:11:43.

with the Shia government in Baghdad. When people came to Mosul,

:11:44.:11:46.

a lot of the locals felt it was better living with ISIS than it was

:11:47.:11:52.

living with the Shias, the only difference is that ISIS would not

:11:53.:11:59.

let them smoke. What response should the UK Government to take on is it

:12:00.:12:03.

time to sign up for air strikes with the Americans in Iraq and Syria?

:12:04.:12:11.

Absolutely not, this is not a military problem, this is a

:12:12.:12:21.

political problem. Australia is now deploying military capabilities. We

:12:22.:12:26.

will be joined by a representative of the Australian government in a

:12:27.:12:27.

moment. Mark Malloch Brown. Mr Obama talking

:12:28.:12:43.

about arming the "moderate" Syrian Rebels, Hillary Clinton wanted him

:12:44.:12:47.

to do that in 2012 when it was clear who the moderates were. He didn't do

:12:48.:12:55.

it. Isn't he two years too late? It is playing catch-up but it doesn't

:12:56.:12:58.

mean it's not worth doing, and there's a real need to build a

:12:59.:13:02.

moderate middle. But not much to play with here, I mean, too little

:13:03.:13:07.

too late probably. A lot of people will feel because the moderates have

:13:08.:13:11.

been on the defensive, they are the secular Rebels rather than the

:13:12.:13:15.

moderates, they've been on the defensive the two years. They've

:13:16.:13:18.

taken a lot of defeat at the hands of the Islamists. You give them

:13:19.:13:22.

these weapons and once again they could easily end up in the hands of

:13:23.:13:29.

the Islamists. That's the real risk and you will find from the officials

:13:30.:13:32.

briefing Congress, these weapons will be put in carefully and slowly

:13:33.:13:37.

to make sure that they are going into reliable hands. But when we see

:13:38.:13:42.

that ISIS's fighting power comes from weapons that they captured from

:13:43.:13:46.

the Iraqis, American weapons, this is a real risk. But for the

:13:47.:13:50.

president, the alternative that somebody raised, that he made a deal

:13:51.:13:56.

with President Assad to combine to take on ISIS, was a much less

:13:57.:14:01.

palatable option. It would be even more end raging to Sunni opinion in

:14:02.:14:07.

the region and it would have been a U-turn which would have been an

:14:08.:14:13.

acceptable for Western opinion. -- an acceptable.

:14:14.:14:16.

, we become the -- isn't there the danger that we now become the air

:14:17.:14:26.

force for the Peshmerga forces and any other forces on the ground? Yes,

:14:27.:14:34.

this is what we may end up doing. Is this wise? I think it is

:14:35.:14:40.

inevitable, Andrew, because nobody else is coming forward to do this.

:14:41.:14:45.

The Arab world has affected their forces... Why don't they use them?

:14:46.:14:53.

-- effective air forces. I would agree, it is time you say, the Arab

:14:54.:14:57.

world, don't you care what is happening in your region? These

:14:58.:15:02.

people are a greater threat to the national security of the Arab world

:15:03.:15:05.

than they are to the United Kingdom and the United States. Yet they seem

:15:06.:15:10.

to be implying, let us do it again, that's exactly playing into the

:15:11.:15:14.

hands of ISIS, that is what they want us to do. We then take the lead

:15:15.:15:18.

in the air and on the ground and ISIS will present that as the evil

:15:19.:15:23.

West against the Muslim world which is their intention.

:15:24.:15:43.

Qatar has some undercover involvement with ISIS, the United

:15:44.:15:48.

Arab Emirates is different and I am sure we will see some kind of

:15:49.:15:52.

support. In that sense, to give President Obama and John Kerry their

:15:53.:15:58.

due, they are trying to do this the way the first Gulf War was done and

:15:59.:16:03.

not the second Iraq conflict. They are trying to build a coalition of

:16:04.:16:07.

the willing, the secretary has been to the Middle East and has talked to

:16:08.:16:11.

these governments, tried to get some kind of commitment from them. I

:16:12.:16:15.

think the Americans understand the issue as much as we do. But if you

:16:16.:16:21.

are the UAE, or Qatar, you don't really want to get involved, there

:16:22.:16:25.

is no terrorism in these countries. They stay out of things, they are

:16:26.:16:32.

prospering. Two of the richest city states, Joe Hart and Dubai, and Abu

:16:33.:16:35.

Dhabi, -- These are very small states which

:16:36.:16:50.

already feel quite beleaguered in their neighbourhood with Iran just

:16:51.:16:57.

across the strait from them. And, frankly, they cannot survive growing

:16:58.:17:02.

turbulence in the region. They can't be kind of isolated islands from

:17:03.:17:06.

this. So, you are right, they hate to do something which would import

:17:07.:17:10.

terrorism into their states, but equally, theyp can't allow the world

:17:11.:17:18.

and themselves to stand idly by as ISIS consolidates itself. I would

:17:19.:17:22.

suggest to you, that it is unconceivable that the UAE or Saudis

:17:23.:17:30.

or Qatar would deploy ground troops against Isil It is unlikely but

:17:31.:17:34.

shouldn't be inconceivable because frankly, they need to start thinking

:17:35.:17:37.

about how they are going to stop this huge problem that is going to

:17:38.:17:41.

contaminate the Middle East. It cannot just be us. The public, you

:17:42.:17:46.

know, our public here, have no appetite for us putting ground

:17:47.:17:49.

troops in. Neither has the Government. But, in the end, perhaps

:17:50.:17:54.

we should never, ever say - we will never, ever do anything. When I

:17:55.:17:58.

useded to negotiate, as Mark used, to we would never, ever give away a

:17:59.:18:02.

card that we hold in our hand easily. I will never say that we

:18:03.:18:06.

would never put ground troops in on the ground because actually, we

:18:07.:18:10.

might have to, if we were directly threatened, Andrew. This is he a us,

:18:11.:18:13.

but as a military man, would you like to give us your assessment of

:18:14.:18:19.

the fighting capabilities of the UAE, Saudi and Qatar forces? Not

:18:20.:18:23.

particularly, but you are going to press me so the answer is, not

:18:24.:18:27.

great. So we cannot put too much faith in them. No. We are down to

:18:28.:18:32.

arming the permother capital gains tax which does know how to fight,

:18:33.:18:39.

particularly if they have modern weapons -- the Peshmerga.

:18:40.:18:43.

And to hoping that the Americans can do something to revive and put some

:18:44.:18:49.

steel into the Iraqi Army. Exactly and that's what we are hoping to do

:18:50.:18:53.

and this is' what American and British intentions will be. I think

:18:54.:18:56.

it is important, Adam Holloway's point in the interview, in which he

:18:57.:19:00.

said the ultimate solution is a political solution. We have to look

:19:01.:19:04.

at the military as containing the problem, recovering the major cities

:19:05.:19:06.

back into Government hands but then it is - how do you reenfranchise the

:19:07.:19:14.

sunnies? How do you remove their sense of grievance which lets them

:19:15.:19:21.

breed movements like ISIS. But essentially ly a sunny-Shia civil

:19:22.:19:27.

war. -- a Sunni-Shia civil war? I think it is generational. It took 30

:19:28.:19:39.

years in Europe. This is producing religious-based fanatic terrorist

:19:40.:19:43.

organisations because their religious majority, their fellow

:19:44.:19:46.

co-religionists, feel they are excluded from the politics of the

:19:47.:19:49.

countries where they aring living. So that, is only something, that

:19:50.:19:54.

this region can do, by creating much more inclusive, much more

:19:55.:19:59.

accountable, much more democratic government structures than this

:20:00.:20:04.

strange mixture of authoritarianism and religious exclusionism that we

:20:05.:20:07.

have at the moment. But we are seeing the rewriting of the Middle

:20:08.:20:12.

East map. The Middle East map was rewritten during the First World War

:20:13.:20:16.

and it was implemented. It has broadly stayed like that. These are

:20:17.:20:20.

the boundaries since then. It's now been redrawn again. It is going to

:20:21.:20:26.

be redrawn by forces on the ground. Undoubted youly Undoubted ly, that's

:20:27.:20:30.

why I say we are in this for a generation. That's again, why these

:20:31.:20:33.

air strikes need to be put into context. They need to be short and

:20:34.:20:37.

decisive. You do not want a generation-long commitment of

:20:38.:20:40.

Western Forces resolving something that only Arabs can solve for

:20:41.:20:46.

themselves. Are we going, "we", Britain, going to join the Americans

:20:47.:20:49.

and probably now the Australians in air strikes? Probably. We may have

:20:50.:20:57.

no choice. We don't want to, but we may have no choice.

:20:58.:21:01.

Is there enough spoer from MPs? Doer support. I think it is quite a lot

:21:02.:21:06.

of support from MPs. From both sides of the House. I'm talking about

:21:07.:21:10.

friends in the Labour Party and on the backbenches. But the problem is,

:21:11.:21:13.

we don't want to go further. What did you make of the remarks of the

:21:14.:21:18.

former Attorney-General, Dominic Grieve, now a backbench colleague of

:21:19.:21:23.

yours on the Conservative side, who hold Jo yesterday that any mission

:21:24.:21:28.

had to be limited to protecting civilians, not removing IS? That's

:21:29.:21:34.

his view. We might have to have a different view to that, but that's

:21:35.:21:38.

Dominic's view. I deeply respect that. He is a good bloke. But you

:21:39.:21:44.

don't share it, do you? I don't. My view is that if we are about to see

:21:45.:21:48.

a major advance, we may well have to take them on from the air.

:21:49.:21:52.

His implication was it wouldn't be legal to do that, it would have to

:21:53.:21:56.

be framed with a humanitarian view with limited air strikes to protect

:21:57.:22:01.

the civil ian population -- civilian population, contain, not defeat.

:22:02.:22:05.

Well if you can do, that great. But in the end when you have these

:22:06.:22:09.

people burying hundreds of people, in the hand. That's humanitarian

:22:10.:22:22.

with me When they are attacking ISIS in in Iraqi territory, all we need

:22:23.:22:25.

is the invitation of the government. Syria he was talking bflt You have

:22:26.:22:30.

more of a point there in Syrian. The Syrian Government has tow invite you

:22:31.:22:36.

-- Syrian Government who has to invite you in or you have to go to

:22:37.:22:38.

the UN. And we don't talk to them. Today, over 100 British Muslim

:22:39.:22:49.

imams, organisations and individuals have signed a statement calling for

:22:50.:22:51.

the release of the British hostage They also express their "horror and

:22:52.:22:54.

revulsion" at the killing of another hostage, David Haines, and call

:22:55.:22:59.

the group "un-Islamic fanatics". One of those who signed up to the

:23:00.:23:01.

letter, Muddassar Ahmed, he joins us Why, at this particular time, as Mr

:23:02.:23:13.

Henning was taken captive in December last year? It wasn't made

:23:14.:23:16.

public. People weren't aware of the issue. I thought the family were

:23:17.:23:20.

keeping it - wanted a slightly lower profile on the issue but I thought

:23:21.:23:24.

it's an important step that this letter was eventually written and

:23:25.:23:27.

pulled together. I think it represents a very wide range of

:23:28.:23:34.

British Muslim opinion Do you accept that wide range, though it may be,

:23:35.:23:40.

that it is not the kind of opinion that there is folks -- the folks at

:23:41.:23:44.

IS will have any interest in listening to? I don't know. I think

:23:45.:23:48.

one thing that's very important is that IS are spoking to in a

:23:49.:23:52.

terminology and a language they understand. I think what is

:23:53.:23:57.

interesting here is that the British Muslims that went with Alan to Syria

:23:58.:24:00.

and travelled with him, are the ones that are leading the calls for him

:24:01.:24:05.

to be released. I think it is interesting - of course it is not

:24:06.:24:08.

crystal clear how they will respond - but I don't suppose we will be

:24:09.:24:12.

able to ignore it easily. Should such robust statements not have come

:24:13.:24:17.

before so many young British Muslims went to join IS? I think that the -

:24:18.:24:23.

I think there have been statements before. I think a lot of work has

:24:24.:24:27.

been done by the Muslim community in Britain to ensure that young British

:24:28.:24:30.

Muslims don't go out there. It hasn't worked, has it? It is

:24:31.:24:33.

interesting. It has and it hasn't. It is interesting to see - we have

:24:34.:24:37.

been hearing reports that there are young British Muslims out there that

:24:38.:24:41.

want to come back, that realise they have made a mistake. Remember there

:24:42.:24:44.

was a huge effort by young British Muslims to go out and help the

:24:45.:24:48.

humanitarian aid in Syria and the fog of war, some young men made the

:24:49.:24:52.

decision to join IS. It is interesting and for me heartening to

:24:53.:24:56.

hear that some want to come back. We need to be prepared and open,

:24:57.:24:59.

because there is nothing more powerful than having a young British

:25:00.:25:05.

Muslim who is been out there, who is disenchanted and realised that ISIS

:25:06.:25:10.

has nothing to do with Islam and Muslims, to come back and tell the

:25:11.:25:15.

rest of us. If they are genuine. Well, that's something we need to

:25:16.:25:18.

figure out in due course. But, I think it may well be, but we need to

:25:19.:25:24.

be open to that responsibility. -- possibility. Do we have much

:25:25.:25:27.

evidence? Because it is almost taken, almost as an assumption, that

:25:28.:25:32.

the worst of the ones who are out there, have been radicalised by

:25:33.:25:36.

mosques or imams in Britain. Some of the backgrounds of the ones I have

:25:37.:25:41.

seen, would suggest that they are no better, really than gangsters, that

:25:42.:25:44.

they have not really had anything to do with the mosques or religion in

:25:45.:25:49.

Britain and they are simply now being offered a bigger, more grisly

:25:50.:25:57.

playing field for their gangsterism? I think that's riechlted you have

:25:58.:26:00.

think the the nail on the head. These young men going out there seem

:26:01.:26:05.

to be less motivated by Islam and more motivated by other reasons and

:26:06.:26:10.

perhaps some is linked to lower social economic backgrounds they are

:26:11.:26:13.

from and they are being attracted or disenp chanted by their and the to

:26:14.:26:16.

live here, so they are being attracted to go out there and fight

:26:17.:26:20.

in this certain way. I think that, you know, it is important that we

:26:21.:26:23.

find ways - that part of the solution here is finding long-term

:26:24.:26:26.

ways to bring these people and make them feel more part of British

:26:27.:26:29.

society as a whole. In the short term, we knead to be open to the

:26:30.:26:33.

fact that some have simply made a mistake and we need to be able to

:26:34.:26:36.

let them integrate normally back into society when they come back.

:26:37.:26:40.

What do you think now could be done? What is the single biggest thing we

:26:41.:26:46.

can do, now, to stop more young British Muslims going to join the

:26:47.:26:49.

terrorists? I think there is a couple of things. First of all, the

:26:50.:26:52.

letter that happened today is a great example of something positive,

:26:53.:26:56.

that shows that the vast majority of British Muslims are sick and tired

:26:57.:26:59.

of ISIS and are horrified, as everybody else is, by the crimes

:27:00.:27:03.

that they have committed and are about to commit. So, understanding

:27:04.:27:07.

those voices, encourages those voices to speak out more is one

:27:08.:27:11.

step. I think the other thing that might be helpful in this, is that

:27:12.:27:15.

not speaking to ISIS, in terms of the way they want us to address them

:27:16.:27:20.

- so, there is nothing Islamic about them, they are not a state. They

:27:21.:27:23.

don't have the backing of Islamic scholars in the region. In fact,

:27:24.:27:30.

what they have done, is they have destroyed centuries' old Islamic

:27:31.:27:34.

civilisation in Iraq. Everything about them is anti-Islamic. We need

:27:35.:27:38.

to frame it in that sense. Thank you for joining us and explaining the

:27:39.:27:41.

reasons hyped your statement today. As promised, we are joined by the

:27:42.:27:46.

Australian High Commissioner. He has fought his way through the London

:27:47.:27:48.

traffic. Welcome. Overnight in Australia we have been hearing about

:27:49.:27:53.

anti-terror raids, extensive anti-terror raids in Sydney and

:27:54.:27:56.

Brisbane. Can you bring us up-to-speed? Well, about 600 police

:27:57.:28:02.

mounted some raids in a variety of suburbs, mainly in Sydney but also

:28:03.:28:06.

Brisbane and detained around 15 people and arrested - and had one

:28:07.:28:12.

person charged. This is tied up with concerns that the police have had

:28:13.:28:17.

that there could be a terrorist operation, or a criminal operation

:28:18.:28:20.

in Australia which could include beheading. And there had been some

:28:21.:28:25.

links. Attempts to behead in Australia? In Australia, yes. So,

:28:26.:28:34.

potentially a random attack - as no not identifying a specific person,

:28:35.:28:38.

but randomly choosing somebody or several people and killing them, and

:28:39.:28:42.

possibly killing them by beheading them. Do we think this is linked to

:28:43.:28:50.

the events in Iraq/Syria, where we know with some British Muslims there

:28:51.:28:54.

are some American Muslims in there, too. We think we have about 60

:28:55.:29:00.

fighters as part of Isil in Syria and Iraq. And we think there are

:29:01.:29:04.

links with Isil, yes. Now Prime Minister Abbott has committed 600

:29:05.:29:07.

Australian troops, eight fighter jets to help combat ISIS in the

:29:08.:29:12.

region. Exactly what would their role be, can you tell us? It remains

:29:13.:29:17.

to be seen, because at this stage, the Americans haven't made anip

:29:18.:29:20.

final decisions on what they are going to do -- made any decisions on

:29:21.:29:26.

what they are going to do. We are not looking on boots on the ground

:29:27.:29:30.

to use the phrase. What would the troops be, if not boots on the

:29:31.:29:35.

ground? Some people would be there to provide support to the Air Force.

:29:36.:29:39.

To the Australian Air Force? Yes, to people like that. But Mr Abbott has

:29:40.:29:46.

said they may be called on "to disrupt and degrade." This is going

:29:47.:29:50.

to depend on how the Americans ultimately define the mission and we

:29:51.:29:54.

will have to be satisfied with the way they ha defined the mission. We

:29:55.:29:59.

went to get -- they have defined the mission. We want to get the assets

:30:00.:30:04.

ready in case there is a call for action on us. And we are making the

:30:05.:30:08.

call to America and other allies that we are prepared to shoulder the

:30:09.:30:13.

burden ourselves not leaving everything to the British and

:30:14.:30:19.

Americans. Is Australia a reliable ally? To America? We are reliable.

:30:20.:30:25.

You are close and getting closer. You have bought striker jets from

:30:26.:30:28.

America. I don't think we are buying as many as the UK, but if that's the

:30:29.:30:35.

definition of a close ally, is it? # Britain and Australia are both very

:30:36.:30:39.

close and reliable allies of the United States. The reason for that

:30:40.:30:44.

is that we have a common view, and common values and often common

:30:45.:30:47.

perspectives about what needs to be done. So we are different countries,

:30:48.:30:51.

we are Sovereign in our own rights but often come to the same

:30:52.:30:55.

conclusions. To be fair, all three of our countries know that Isil

:30:56.:31:01.

should not, over time, be allowed to control substantial slice of

:31:02.:31:04.

territory in the Middle East. That the Iraqi security forces, the

:31:05.:31:08.

Peshmerga have to be supported in rolling back Isil.

:31:09.:31:15.

Britain is going to follow in its footsteps? This is a great move and

:31:16.:31:22.

a necessary move from Australia, you have to put Australia's own

:31:23.:31:25.

interests, and Alexander would agree. Australia lives in a

:31:26.:31:30.

difficult region with a resurgent China, it is important for Australia

:31:31.:31:33.

that the US engages in the Pacific region and offers security, an

:31:34.:31:42.

alternative to China. The Americans have a new naval base just outside

:31:43.:31:49.

Darwin. We are not allowed to call it a naval base. If it looks like

:31:50.:31:56.

one it probably is. They are going to rotate troops. Marines. Last time

:31:57.:32:02.

I looked they were in the U.S. Navy. They are not being based there.

:32:03.:32:08.

There could be another one in Western Australia as well, the

:32:09.:32:13.

Americans are looking at... We haven't been looking at so much new

:32:14.:32:17.

American bases, but the Americans being able to deploy through

:32:18.:32:22.

Australia. Does Australian public opinion back what the Prime Minister

:32:23.:32:30.

has announced? I think it does, the Liberal party, Tony Abbott's party,

:32:31.:32:33.

and the Labour Party, the main opposition, support what the

:32:34.:32:37.

government is doing. The Green party does not but other than that, I

:32:38.:32:42.

think the mainstream public opinion supports it. We don't often get the

:32:43.:32:47.

High Commissioner on our programme, we don't want you to go. It is

:32:48.:32:52.

Joe's turnout. Now since we have the Australian

:32:53.:32:56.

High Commissioner here we thought we'd ask him why the Australian

:32:57.:32:59.

Prime Minister's gone walkabout. Tony Abbott this week decided to run

:33:00.:33:01.

his government from the outback. CHEERING

:33:02.:33:20.

In a remote pocket of the Northern Territory, at the mythological

:33:21.:33:22.

birthplace of the didgeridoo Tony Abbott sets to work. He's the seat

:33:23.:33:29.

of power to an half thousand miles from Parliament house Canberra to a

:33:30.:33:33.

Portakabin. -- two and a half thousand miles. Life under canvas is

:33:34.:33:40.

not cramping his leadership style. From his outback office he has

:33:41.:33:43.

deployed 600 Australian troops to the conflict in Iraq. The Prime

:33:44.:33:50.

Minister is making good on a promise to spend one week every year in a

:33:51.:33:53.

disadvantaged indigenous community. Living alongside these people he's

:33:54.:33:59.

taking part in schemes to tackle high rates of infant mortality, drug

:34:00.:34:06.

abuse, alcoholism and unemployment. Critics doubt that this makes little

:34:07.:34:13.

difference to his attitudes, but the Prime Minister can chalk up one win,

:34:14.:34:16.

school attendance was at a record high when he went to class.

:34:17.:34:20.

And the High Commissioner is still here, and we're joined also

:34:21.:34:23.

by the comedian, Mark Little, some viewers may remember him

:34:24.:34:25.

Welcome to the Daily Politics. That is what I remember, that is what I

:34:26.:34:37.

spent my university youth doing. It explains your degree. It was a

:34:38.:34:43.

social phenomenon. My degree in media studies.

:34:44.:34:49.

To the importance of this trip, why? Indigenous Australians are an

:34:50.:34:58.

important component of our country, it makes sense that Tony Abbott, as

:34:59.:35:03.

he did as opposition leader and health Minister, and as Prime

:35:04.:35:05.

Minister to meet with these communities and understand these

:35:06.:35:10.

communities, albeit a brief period of time, spending time with these

:35:11.:35:13.

communities and it is much appreciated. Appreciated by the

:35:14.:35:20.

community but it is unusual. In the modern Eire prime ministers have to

:35:21.:35:24.

get out among the diversity of their communities -- in odd and

:35:25.:35:29.

indigenous people at the first people. They've not had the respect

:35:30.:35:37.

they deserved over the last couple of centuries. Tony Abbott wants to

:35:38.:35:40.

have recognition of the indigenous people written into the

:35:41.:35:45.

constitution. It is going to be hard to get an agreement on the words but

:35:46.:35:48.

we have to get bipartisan agreement on it. Your impressions, the theory

:35:49.:35:55.

is, the Prime Minister is in the outback and it is a change of scene.

:35:56.:36:01.

You can almost see his PR team behind this, he has been one to put

:36:02.:36:04.

in his foot in it a lot over the past, he's clever at doing that,

:36:05.:36:09.

Tony Abbott. Recently he made a statement about the defining moment

:36:10.:36:13.

in Australian history which was the British coming and taking over and

:36:14.:36:19.

bringing civilisation to Australia. It was defining, whether it is

:36:20.:36:25.

positive or negative. How is that putting your foot in it? How did he

:36:26.:36:33.

put his foot in it? He said it was not settled, he said it was settled

:36:34.:36:37.

a little bit, because what is coming up in the referendum, the

:36:38.:36:40.

constitutional referendum, the indigenous people want more land

:36:41.:36:46.

rights, and treaty. Something you would back? I would totally back and

:36:47.:36:51.

it is hard-core in indigenous politics. What the wording will be

:36:52.:36:55.

in this, is trying to make it not, to not give the aboriginal treaty so

:36:56.:36:59.

they don't have any access, SA over their land. We will come back to the

:37:00.:37:05.

land rights because that's been a long-standing issue. Your point, it

:37:06.:37:09.

is a PR stunt. Do you admire him for doing it, it is not easy to do,

:37:10.:37:16.

physically, he is quite a he-man. It is like that it Putin, wrestling a

:37:17.:37:21.

bear, he's just going camping, as far as the Aussies are concerned,

:37:22.:37:27.

he's going camping! Have you done it? You have more nasty animals out

:37:28.:37:32.

there than the rest of the world put together. He has waved goodbye to

:37:33.:37:38.

soldiers that he has sent to the war in Iraq. It shows you politics is

:37:39.:37:43.

getting tougher and tougher no matter what you do. People say it is

:37:44.:37:48.

stunned, if you do the right thing, it is just a stunt you make a gaffe.

:37:49.:37:53.

To be honest with you, anybody who knows Tony Abbott, I'm not talking

:37:54.:37:59.

about observers and commentators, I know him very well. Anybody who

:38:00.:38:03.

knows him knows throughout his political career and prior to that

:38:04.:38:07.

he's been very committed to indigenous issues. He means it, when

:38:08.:38:13.

he goes out there to do this, that it's not to take your point... By

:38:14.:38:19.

the way personally I do not think it'll have any effect on the voters.

:38:20.:38:25.

But I do think it demonstrates... He has to minute, if he is going to

:38:26.:38:31.

keep on selling off Australia to the Chinese, he is going to have access

:38:32.:38:37.

to this important treaty. The aboriginal population appreciated,

:38:38.:38:40.

for them at least it's quite a thing to have the Prime Minister stay

:38:41.:38:47.

there for one week. It is, he's taken away the aboriginal

:38:48.:38:51.

commission, he has set himself up as the indigenous Prime Minister, he

:38:52.:38:54.

will look after it himself personally. Also women, use in

:38:55.:38:58.

charge of that as well. I don't know, there's something not quite

:38:59.:39:01.

right upstairs as far as I'm concerned. The Prime Minister of a

:39:02.:39:08.

country, he flip-flops around. Saying things like, he's not quite

:39:09.:39:12.

right upstairs, people can draw their own conclusion. How would you

:39:13.:39:19.

take that comment? I would leave that to the viewers. I would make

:39:20.:39:23.

this point, here is a man who was a Rhodes scholar, a deeply intelligent

:39:24.:39:28.

and thoughtful person. Who amongst other things wants to do something

:39:29.:39:32.

about indigenous disadvantage. By the way, it is a bit patronising to

:39:33.:39:36.

think that all indigenous people have one view, there are whole

:39:37.:39:39.

variety of political views among indigenous people and on this issue

:39:40.:39:44.

of the recognition in the constitution there are a variety of

:39:45.:39:50.

perspectives. Could you imagine another Australian politician doing

:39:51.:39:55.

this? I suppose I could, I am not saying that another politician would

:39:56.:40:01.

not do it, certainly, the fact Tony Abbott has done it means his

:40:02.:40:03.

successors will think we should do this as well. What about British

:40:04.:40:09.

politicians, not that we have the equivalent of the outback. The

:40:10.:40:15.

closest we have got is one day cabinet meetings away from London.

:40:16.:40:22.

Manchester, Liverpool! Just to square the circle, this man is quite

:40:23.:40:26.

hard right wing in his ideological views, but he's clearly a very

:40:27.:40:30.

compassionate man who believes involuntary is. When those fires in

:40:31.:40:34.

Australia, when he became Prime Minister they could not find him

:40:35.:40:37.

because he was doing his traditional Fire Fighting. -- he believes in the

:40:38.:40:44.

culture of volunteering. It is not unusual to have conservative

:40:45.:40:46.

politicians who combine this with a lot of personal compassion. I

:40:47.:40:52.

suspect he's one of those. He likes to get hands-on, because he's got

:40:53.:41:00.

some big issues, he needs to do his best. Thank you for joining us. .

:41:01.:41:05.

Now, what's it like being a member of an all-male,

:41:06.:41:08.

But if you want to know, and get the chance, ask David Cameron,

:41:09.:41:13.

Failing that, you could watch a new film, that's out tomorrow,

:41:14.:41:19.

The riot club. In a few years these boys will be very important. Or

:41:20.:41:35.

should I say the Bollington club. It started as wanting to write a piece

:41:36.:41:39.

about young wealthy people. I was first researching it for the theatre

:41:40.:41:45.

play in 2007, that is when the stories about the Bollington club

:41:46.:41:52.

were starting to surface. This is an opportunity to reconsider the type

:41:53.:41:55.

of person... The best and the brightest. And exclusive dining club

:41:56.:42:01.

at Oxford University, the club, which still exist today, was made

:42:02.:42:05.

famous because some Obama 's powerful politicians are former

:42:06.:42:11.

members. This movie is this woman's take on what the rich and most

:42:12.:42:14.

privileged elite could getting up to. Westminster, Eaton, Harrow, if

:42:15.:42:24.

you have to do. The film centres on one night of debauchery at a country

:42:25.:42:28.

pub where we see the young members of the club getting trashed and

:42:29.:42:33.

destroy everything in sight. Your play, Posh, was a huge hit going up

:42:34.:42:39.

to the 2010 election and now we are getting into the real campaign for

:42:40.:42:44.

the 2015 general election. What do you think, probably the two most

:42:45.:42:47.

powerful men in government, David Cameron the primary step, the

:42:48.:42:51.

Chancellor George Osborne, will make of this film considering they were

:42:52.:42:58.

in this club? They might take issue with what the film suggests. I hope

:42:59.:43:03.

they would enjoy the humour of it. Hopefully they would find it an

:43:04.:43:07.

entertaining ride although they would probably be required to come

:43:08.:43:09.

out afterwards and say it was dreadful. We have a portrait of...

:43:10.:43:18.

You cannot go through there. Laura Wade insists the work is not about

:43:19.:43:25.

today's politicians. We're not just offering you a club, I am offering

:43:26.:43:32.

you the future. It is the time. But questions of class and

:43:33.:43:35.

accountability and the issue of the privileged backgrounds of top Tory

:43:36.:43:40.

MPs are all put under the spotlight. It's a problem that has been

:43:41.:43:44.

discussed any number of times, that they are not necessarily

:43:45.:43:46.

representative of the rest of society and people who have been

:43:47.:43:51.

through a public school upbringing and straight into Oxford and

:43:52.:43:54.

Westminster, how much do they really understand? If they don't have that

:43:55.:43:58.

knowledge, what efforts are they making to get it? And obviously the

:43:59.:44:05.

film is dealing with a very small number of characters. It is not at

:44:06.:44:08.

all attempting to say all public school boys are like that, that

:44:09.:44:12.

everybody at Oxford is like that. It asks the question. It's time for you

:44:13.:44:17.

to leave. CHUCKLES And the Conservative MP, David Amess

:44:18.:44:27.

joins us now from College Green. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Do

:44:28.:44:35.

you think films like this will stoke this image of arrogant posh boys,

:44:36.:44:43.

the image that your fellow MP Nadine Dorey 's referred to as David

:44:44.:44:48.

Cameron and George Osborne? Macro no, I don't think it will have any

:44:49.:44:53.

effect at all. Most people have never heard of this club. Perhaps

:44:54.:45:03.

less about the club, and more about the image, the posh image of certain

:45:04.:45:07.

sections of politicians who do not really represent the public at

:45:08.:45:11.

large, is that not an issue for the Conservatives?

:45:12.:45:17.

The reason I initiated this trawl of colleagues with working class

:45:18.:45:23.

backgrounds is I got fed up with people suggesting we are all posh

:45:24.:45:26.

and come from wealthy backgrounds. If you ask me where the real wealth

:45:27.:45:31.

and poshness comes from is now on the Labour and liberal benches. I

:45:32.:45:35.

have identified up to 50 of my colleagues who have working class

:45:36.:45:38.

backgrounds and roots. Many have remarkable stories. I think their

:45:39.:45:42.

experiences add a great deal to the national debate in Westminster.

:45:43.:45:45.

Right, but is the reason that they don't come to the fore and they are

:45:46.:45:48.

not highlighted is because the backgrounds of a lot of senior

:45:49.:45:52.

figures and I take your point in the Labour Party, too, but within the

:45:53.:45:54.

Conservative Party, half of Conservative MPs went to private

:45:55.:45:57.

schools, many of the Cabinet went to Oxford and Cambridge and many are

:45:58.:46:01.

very wealthy. That obviously reinforces that image? Well, you

:46:02.:46:06.

see, this is a complete misnomer. Is it? One in six of my colleagues have

:46:07.:46:16.

a working class background. Look at Patrick McLaughlin's background and

:46:17.:46:21.

Sajit's background. He arrived in the with a pound. When they read

:46:22.:46:27.

this, others have had a bath in a tin bath. Half of these colleagues

:46:28.:46:30.

seemed to be hosed down in the street. They have remarkable

:46:31.:46:33.

backgrounds and have gone on to hold high office. Right but look at...

:46:34.:46:37.

Their backgrounds are being misrepresented. Their backgrounds

:46:38.:46:40.

may not have been misrepresented but are they overwhelmed by the

:46:41.:46:43.

backgrounds of David Cameron, of Boris Johnson, of George Osborne and

:46:44.:46:49.

other old etonians? I'm just putting it to you. Rightly or wrongly, that

:46:50.:46:53.

there are many of the advisors, even at number ten who are also from a

:46:54.:47:00.

similar elite clique and this is the top of the party? Well, the issue of

:47:01.:47:04.

advisors, I haven't got enormous knowledge of but in my lifetime.

:47:05.:47:08.

Winston Churchill, very posh background, but then you go on to

:47:09.:47:12.

Margaret Thatcher and to John Major, working class background. I don't

:47:13.:47:19.

think it much matters. No, but has it reverted to privately-educated

:47:20.:47:23.

old eye tonians, even if -- etonians, even if the numbers aren't

:47:24.:47:31.

there but do they have disproportionate influence in terms

:47:32.:47:35.

of the image of the party? I think they are given too much publicity.

:47:36.:47:38.

The public are not concerned with the background of the politicians,

:47:39.:47:41.

it is whether or not they govern effective. I don't have a hang-up

:47:42.:47:45.

because I have a working class background and I shouldn't think

:47:46.:47:50.

that David Cameron has a backhang-up because he has a come if for tab

:47:51.:47:56.

background. It is whether or not who is chosen to govern

:47:57.:48:00.

background. It is whether or not who sense to experience well. I think

:48:01.:48:02.

that's what the Conservative Party has. Are you worried about the

:48:03.:48:05.

timing of this film? There are obviously some of your colleagues

:48:06.:48:08.

who are worried about t in the run-up to the 2015 election. A

:48:09.:48:14.

fellow Conservative MP, says this looks like revenge for George

:48:15.:48:19.

Osborne cutting film test value subsidies? I'm in the worried. It'll

:48:20.:48:24.

probably just be like the Chelsea reality proximity not accurate, fan

:48:25.:48:29.

it is acy. I don't think it'll do any damage whatsoever. If anyone

:48:30.:48:33.

wants to make a film about working class Conservatives, I'll love a

:48:34.:48:38.

part. We'll give them your number if we get any calls. Mark Malloch

:48:39.:48:44.

Brown, you were educated at Marlborough College and Cambridge.

:48:45.:48:48.

Is the MP of Conservative MPs disproportionate in your mind? It

:48:49.:48:52.

wasn't around the Cabinet table I served on. There were a couple of us

:48:53.:48:56.

who had public school backgrounds. To me, this whole issue is tragic.

:48:57.:49:00.

There is no other country in the world where you could make a movie

:49:01.:49:05.

like this which would resonate. Will it resonate? I think it will. You

:49:06.:49:09.

have to look at the debates in Scotland during the referendum, this

:49:10.:49:14.

ideal of an elite ruling them from London. What about Harvard, they

:49:15.:49:20.

have not made a move have I about t but the club that George Bush was

:49:21.:49:26.

part of in Harvard often features. Yale There are lots of private clubs

:49:27.:49:30.

but they are not in a sense represented an elite out of touch

:49:31.:49:34.

group in the way that is suggested here. In fact those Yale Secret

:49:35.:49:40.

Societies have pretty much lost their footing nowadays, I

:49:41.:49:45.

understand. It is unfortunate because I'm perfectly willing to

:49:46.:49:47.

accept and believe that David Cameron is governing not because of

:49:48.:49:53.

his education but in he sees, as the best interests of the country but

:49:54.:49:57.

this is cutting away at his legitimacy and authority and

:49:58.:50:00.

frankly, sclas a big drag on this country. Whatever -- class is a dig

:50:01.:50:06.

drag. Whatever your view. I think it is olding back our GDP a percentagep

:50:07.:50:14.

point a year. We are so preoccupied with this history. It is really

:50:15.:50:20.

disappointing. Well obviously the last thing you want is for your

:50:21.:50:24.

colleagues to be out of touch with voters? From 1997 to 2010 we had a

:50:25.:50:30.

Labour Prime Minister with a really posh background and another Labour

:50:31.:50:33.

Prime Minister with a comfortable background but as far as I'm

:50:34.:50:37.

concerned, this film will have no impact at all with the general

:50:38.:50:43.

public. Thank you very much. I can't believe that he said that

:50:44.:50:48.

Made in Chelsea wasn't accurate. I thought it was a documentary.

:50:49.:50:50.

You have the box set. I have.

:50:51.:50:55.

Yes, I know, you're watching me on the Sunday Politics.

:50:56.:50:58.

But what other worthwhile things could you be doing?

:50:59.:51:00.

Westminster and Whitehall are liberally dotted with some

:51:01.:51:04.

magnificent buildings, some of which like to make themselves known

:51:05.:51:08.

but you don't often get inside them, which is kind of the purpose

:51:09.:51:11.

Lots of the properties will be open to the public.

:51:12.:51:17.

Some of the more important ones you have to book.

:51:18.:51:19.

But I'll give you a quick tour of five of them that are a stone's

:51:20.:51:23.

When it comes to Westminster Hall it's the roof you are really coming

:51:24.:51:29.

to see, the largest medieval hammer beam roof in Europe.

:51:30.:51:34.

The hall itself has been the scene of some major dramas in our history.

:51:35.:51:37.

They condemned a king to die here, but even though I'm showing you

:51:38.:51:40.

the inside, still come along because actually the surprise is how

:51:41.:51:43.

From the ancient to the modern, Portcullis House is only 13 years'

:51:44.:51:57.

It is where many MPs have their offices and often meet the public

:51:58.:52:01.

It has some infamously expensive trees to look after and

:52:02.:52:06.

since you paid for the whole thing as tax payers, you

:52:07.:52:09.

The whole point of Open House London,

:52:10.:52:17.

is it gets you inside buildings you are not normally able to see.

:52:18.:52:20.

Getting the front door of Downing Street is hard work normally

:52:21.:52:23.

but they are opening it up, the state rooms are available.

:52:24.:52:27.

But here is the thing - it's been the seat of Government

:52:28.:52:30.

They are security conscious and the fact is that anyone who is

:52:31.:52:34.

lucky enough to be in the ballot to get inside here, will actually have

:52:35.:52:38.

to be security checked, a background check will take place.

:52:39.:52:41.

So, right in the heart of Whitehall, two huge purpose-built Government

:52:42.:52:50.

office buildings in the Victorian period.

:52:51.:52:54.

Magnificent on the outside but also on the inside.

:52:55.:52:56.

The Treasury, the famous drum, you can get access to that this weekend,

:52:57.:53:00.

which you often see when the Chancellor is leaving the Treasury

:53:01.:53:05.

for the Commons on Budget day and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office

:53:06.:53:08.

are opening up the India office and the Durbar Court

:53:09.:53:11.

which is magnificent but the real prize in here is the staircase.

:53:12.:53:13.

So, there you are, if you are interested in history and

:53:14.:53:21.

politics, that's an architectural smog he is boring for you.

:53:22.:53:27.

And the Director of Open City, Victoria Thornton is with me now.

:53:28.:53:47.

How did this come about? Well I started it in my back room. I'm not

:53:48.:53:53.

an architect. Have you allowed the public in to see your back room? I

:53:54.:53:58.

don't think they want to. Was there resistance? A lot. It was 22 years

:53:59.:54:05.

ago. Gosh. I know, kind of of like been continuity girl but with the

:54:06.:54:09.

Department of Heritage, there wasn't a Department of Culture, we were in

:54:10.:54:15.

a heavy recession, 55% of architects were unemployed, so there was not a

:54:16.:54:19.

real feeling of particularly contemporary architecture. It was

:54:20.:54:23.

very much about the past. I thought actually architecture is about the

:54:24.:54:26.

quality, not the age. So you have the Foreign Office, the Treasury,

:54:27.:54:31.

Portcullis House, opposite Big Ben The Bank of England. The Bank of

:54:32.:54:35.

England as well, and number ten. Anything else? 26 Whitehall, as

:54:36.:54:38.

well, part of the Cabinet Office as well. And well HM Treasury. So you

:54:39.:54:45.

have at Foreign Office HM Treasury you can slip from one or the other.

:54:46.:54:49.

It is great. You can walk up and down Whitehall for 48 hours and look

:54:50.:54:53.

at some fantastic architecture. Do has to be a good thing. Great thing.

:54:54.:54:57.

My vote is go and look at the Foreign Office. The Treasury - in

:54:58.:55:00.

order to efficiently govern us and know how to cut our spending has

:55:01.:55:06.

rather remodelled itself and the modern architecture inside that

:55:07.:55:10.

wonderful old building, where the dear old Foreign Office, it is still

:55:11.:55:14.

the original - I don't know how you run foreign affairs from t but it is

:55:15.:55:19.

a beautiful architectural thing. I loved being a minister there. I

:55:20.:55:26.

guess you didn't try for MI5 or MI6? We do. What do they say? Not this

:55:27.:55:36.

year. Come back next year. It is always refurbishment, in September.

:55:37.:55:39.

And what do people have to do, I'm sure they can't just turn up? Most

:55:40.:55:45.

is. The whole point is that it is free access for all. It is about not

:55:46.:55:49.

getting ahead. It is free and that's the whole point of the ethos of it.

:55:50.:55:54.

It isn't exclusive. It is totally inclusive. Thinking about your

:55:55.:55:59.

earlier point. What about the security checks? Security generally

:56:00.:56:02.

are good. Obviously there are some security checks. Downing Street is a

:56:03.:56:06.

ballot. Yes, and we do a few ballots that. Did have 25,000 people in the

:56:07.:56:12.

ballot. Really? Yes, so there is a real interest in architecture.

:56:13.:56:16.

Queues? There are, but you accept t you know. It's like if you want to

:56:17.:56:21.

get in, otherwise go and have a cup of tea on those days but we have

:56:22.:56:26.

buildings like the Bank of England, which has about a two-hour queue but

:56:27.:56:34.

we have the gherkin and we also have the new Leden Hall building, which

:56:35.:56:38.

is the key one this year Do you get to see the gold in the Bank of

:56:39.:56:42.

England? No, I don't think so. I wouldn't mind some of it! But they

:56:43.:56:47.

are not all the big sort of state properties r they, that you can go

:56:48.:56:51.

and see? It is a whole range. It is how you live, work and play, we call

:56:52.:56:56.

t it is about opening eyes minds and doors. -- we call it. It to get you

:56:57.:57:02.

interested in architecture N your education system, did any of you

:57:03.:57:05.

learn about architecture? Most probably not. It is an education

:57:06.:57:12.

weekend but fun. --. What about Admiralty House? It has in the past.

:57:13.:57:18.

Our hidden gem is Dover House. It is in. It is a pre-booking, which is,

:57:19.:57:22.

of course for Scotland. It used to be the seat of the Scottish Office

:57:23.:57:26.

and I think is now Scotland House. We will see what happens tomorrow

:57:27.:57:30.

about that. I think it is a great idea. Congratulations. Pleasure. Now

:57:31.:57:34.

there is time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz. I have

:57:35.:57:38.

forgotten all about it. The question was: Which job did former Labour

:57:39.:57:42.

minister, Alan Johnson suggest Ed Miliband should have done before

:57:43.:57:49.

entering politics? Was it, a posman, TV presenter, stand-up comedian or

:57:50.:57:54.

soldier. I soldier. I must say I rather agree. It would knock a few

:57:55.:57:59.

of those metropolitan spots off him. Do you think so? I would love to

:58:00.:58:04.

know what his reaction would be. I can't quite see him as a soldier.

:58:05.:58:08.

What do you think? That's the point. None of us could. It would have

:58:09.:58:13.

helped him survive the crowds in Edinburgh.

:58:14.:58:15.

Anyway, well done, you have the right answer. Thank you for being

:58:16.:58:19.

with us today, Mark. That's all for today. Thank you to all of our

:58:20.:58:23.

guests. The One O'Clock News is starting over on BBC One now. I will

:58:24.:58:29.

be back on BBC One tonight, from 10.40 onwards and all through the

:58:30.:58:34.

night until 9.00am tomorrow morning. Getting Westminster reaction to the

:58:35.:58:37.

results of the Scottish referendum as they come in, on our programme

:58:38.:58:42.

Scotland Decides, with hue Edwards in Glasgow. If I'm still awake, I

:58:43.:58:47.

will be back with the Daily Politics here on BBC Two at noon tomorrow

:58:48.:58:51.

and, oh, yes, Newsnight tomorrow night as well. You are joking. It is

:58:52.:58:54.

a quiet 24 hours. Goodbye.

:58:55.:59:01.

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn with the latest political news, interviews and debate. Former foreign Office minister Lord Malloch-Brown joins them to discuss the situation in Iraq.

They also look at the film The Riot Club.


Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS