22/09/2014 Daily Politics


22/09/2014

Andrew Neil is in Manchester with live coverage of the Labour Party conference.


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Transcript


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Good morning from the Labour Party conference here in sunny Manchester.

:00:11.:00:20.

The shadow Chancellor Ed Balls has a lot of convincing to do.

:00:21.:00:51.

Morning, folks and welcome to the Daily Politics.

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Ed Balls warns that a Labour government will have to make more

:00:56.:00:58.

cuts to balance the budget - including capping child benefit -

:00:59.:01:01.

we'll bring you his speech live at midday.

:01:02.:01:05.

Conservative MPs descend on the Prime Minister's country

:01:06.:01:08.

house, Chequers, to demand a better deal for England after the promises

:01:09.:01:11.

Labour accuses the Prime Minister of playing politics with his promise of

:01:12.:01:20.

English votes for English laws - we ask the folks here what they think.

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And I've been out and about sampling the conference nightlife here

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in Manchester - finding out if they're in any mood to party.

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Ed has got to project himself as the future prime ministers. I did not

:01:42.:01:47.

vote for him. I voted for David Miliband.

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All that coming up in the next 90 minutes - oh yes,

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you get 90 minutes today of this Daily Politics Conference Special.

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First this morning - Ed Balls has been doing the traditional

:01:58.:01:59.

He chose a Sure Start children's centre to deliver his message that

:02:00.:02:05.

Labour would cap child benefit - a move he says will save ?400

:02:06.:02:11.

We'll be investigating that figure in a minute.

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First, here is what Mr Balls had to say. I cannot make spending

:02:22.:02:31.

commitments we cannot pay for. If, in the first two years, we keep that

:02:32.:02:35.

child benefit rise to 1%, I hope we can go on and the child benefit

:02:36.:02:40.

rising by more than that later in the parliament. It is one of the

:02:41.:02:43.

things we say we will have to do to get the deficit down in a fairway.

:02:44.:02:47.

If we do not get the deficit down, if we do not balance the books, we

:02:48.:02:52.

will not be able to deliver on all the we want to see. Let's set the

:02:53.:02:58.

scene here in this formidable Manchester conference centre.

:02:59.:03:05.

of the Daily Mirror, and the Spectator's Isabel Hardman.

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What is the mood of the conference? I think it is pretty flat. A member

:03:11.:03:18.

of the National executive said to me it feels like Labour have lost an

:03:19.:03:22.

election rather than they are about to fight one. Maybe that is because

:03:23.:03:27.

part of the energy and oxygen was sucked up last week by the

:03:28.:03:31.

referendum in Scotland which was a momentous moment in Britain's

:03:32.:03:36.

history. It is very hard to have a conference straight after that with

:03:37.:03:41.

any zip in it. Have you found that, Isabel? Gas, and there are not many

:03:42.:03:47.

policies. I sat here yesterday afternoon and there were no new

:03:48.:03:51.

announcements. Just run hunt gave a speech about education but he did

:03:52.:03:58.

not announce anything -- Tristram Hunt gave a speech about education.

:03:59.:04:06.

We have Ed Balls' speech coming up at noon. It is always the shadow

:04:07.:04:11.

Chancellor Monday speech which is the big one from him. They have said

:04:12.:04:15.

they will freeze child benefit for another year or limited to a 1% cap.

:04:16.:04:21.

Is that it? They are way behind on the polls when it comes to economic

:04:22.:04:25.

credibility. Do we need something to put lead in their pencil? He is 25%

:04:26.:04:30.

behind in the polls on that question. It is very hard to create

:04:31.:04:35.

excitement because you normally create excitement by spending money

:04:36.:04:39.

and promising something. If you say you're going to tackle the deficit,

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can you give money away? We have not been briefed about further

:04:45.:04:47.

announcements. It could be they are held back for Ed Miliband tomorrow

:04:48.:04:51.

afternoon. The word is there will be something on the NHS. We know it is

:04:52.:04:56.

a weak point for the Conservatives. If you look at the polling, the

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Conservatives win on economic confidence, UKIP win on immigration

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and the third bid F -- the third big issue is the NHS which Labour are a

:05:07.:05:14.

head-on. After austerities, you would think he was saying, rather

:05:15.:05:20.

than another freeze, he would come up with something saying things are

:05:21.:05:22.

changing and Labour will make it better will stop this is the balance

:05:23.:05:33.

the house to strike. What he is announcing today goes nowhere near

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anything like a difficult decision. He is freezing child benefit which

:05:37.:05:40.

voters will probably not notice. It is not like you are taking something

:05:41.:05:46.

away. They will notice it does not match their earnings. That is not

:05:47.:05:49.

the shopping difficult decision that people get upset about. It is very

:05:50.:05:55.

small. Ed Miliband came up with the minimum wage going up to ?8 an hour

:05:56.:06:01.

but that is by 2020, in six years' time. If you look at the growth

:06:02.:06:12.

enrages -- in wages before the crash it would match that. He wanted to

:06:13.:06:16.

give something but it did not quite work. A lot of the chat now is David

:06:17.:06:21.

Cameron, English votes for English laws. It is a very tricky issue for

:06:22.:06:27.

Labour because they have so many MPs in Scotland and Wales to defend. I

:06:28.:06:31.

think David Cameron himself, he did not rise to the occasion of the

:06:32.:06:36.

Scottish referendum result, it was dirty, no politics, but it has been

:06:37.:06:40.

pretty effective in the short term. He may in the long-term playing to

:06:41.:06:45.

Nigel Farage's hands. If you are going to play an English nationalist

:06:46.:06:50.

game, UKIP will trump you every time. Is it all down to Mr Miliband

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tomorrow? Is he the 1 who will have to set the tone? He did last year at

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the conference, the freeze on energy prices, that set the political

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weather for months afterwards. He has got to do that again, so no

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pressure. We often underestimate Ed Miliband's speech. He did rate 12

:07:11.:07:14.

years ago and we said he could not replicate that but he did again. He

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does have to produce policies in some sense of a manifesto which I

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have not got the impression is taking place. Thank you to both of

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you for kicking off our conference coverage.

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A group of Conservative MPs are having lunch at an English country

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house - the Prime Minister's country residence - Chequers.

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They're pressing him for more powers for English MPs

:07:35.:07:37.

after promises of the swift transfer of significant extra powers to

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the Scottish parliament before last week's referendum.

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In particular they want "English Votes for English Laws".

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Well, our correspondent Mike Sargeant is outside Chequers.

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Mike, is the Prime Minister there to listen to what his backbenchers have

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to say, or is he telling them what the policies will be. I think it

:08:03.:08:07.

will be a bit of both. A glorious day here today. A quintessential

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English seem to consider the issues of identity and national powers. The

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Conservative MPs are coming here with a message which they believe is

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in the interests of fairness, to rebalance the powers in the United

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Kingdom, to give England more in terms of funding and votes at

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Westminster. There will be more with Labour saying these issues cannot

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just be decided by a group of Conservative MPs over a nice lunch

:08:39.:08:45.

in a country house. Is Mr Cameron's idea of English devolution, does it

:08:46.:08:49.

just come down to English votes for English laws? Is it just the answer

:08:50.:08:52.

to the West Lothian question. Is that it? The Prime Minister said on

:08:53.:09:00.

Friday, all of these issues would have to be considered in hand, and

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at the same pace as giving the powers up to Scotland that were

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promised. The English votes for English laws is something that was

:09:11.:09:15.

in the Conservative manifesto. These Conservative MPs now believe it is

:09:16.:09:18.

time to enact that. But what form that would take? Would it be a soft

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version like the Mackay commission that the government organised which

:09:25.:09:27.

said you would need a majority in England, but the final say would be

:09:28.:09:32.

by UK MPs. Would you move to a system where you had two classes of

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MPs? Would there be an English administration, a federal system?

:09:39.:09:41.

These are big, big questions and some of it could be settled quickly

:09:42.:09:48.

but these bigger questions of what kind of structures we have with our

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parliament and administration may take a lot longer. Separate to that

:09:51.:09:54.

is all the questions about funding, the Barnett formula and all the

:09:55.:10:00.

rest. Have you had any clear briefing from Downing Street on

:10:01.:10:05.

what, if any, is the link between the promised devolution for Scotland

:10:06.:10:09.

and the Prime Minister now talking about English devolution. On Friday

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morning at 7am, the Prime Minister said English devolution would have

:10:14.:10:17.

to take place into hand and at the same pace Scottish devolution. Since

:10:18.:10:22.

then I am told that Downing Street is saying maybe they are not linked.

:10:23.:10:29.

Any clearer picture? I think the briefing that was emerging over the

:10:30.:10:32.

weekend from Downing Street was trying to give the strong sense that

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a vow has been made on Scottish powers. That thou has to be

:10:37.:10:40.

honoured, regardless of anything else that happens -- that thou has

:10:41.:10:45.

to be honoured. Many MPs here today believe that the question of English

:10:46.:10:51.

powers has to be sorted out, or at least the direction of travel has to

:10:52.:10:55.

be established. They think politically it is very difficult to

:10:56.:10:59.

be seen to be giving a lot of extra powers to Scotland without

:11:00.:11:03.

addressing what they see as some of these fundamental constitutional

:11:04.:11:06.

imbalances. Downing Street is very clear that it is not conditional,

:11:07.:11:09.

but would like these things to happen at the same time, parallel

:11:10.:11:14.

process. I think that is as close as we have got to understanding what is

:11:15.:11:18.

going on at the moment. That is interesting. Thank you for that.

:11:19.:11:21.

But what do the Lib Dems think about all this?

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Well, the Business Secretary Vince Cable joins me now from Westminster.

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Welcome to the Daily Politics. Do the Lib Dems support English votes

:11:31.:11:39.

for English laws? We certainly support the principle. There is an

:11:40.:11:42.

anomaly at the moment and it has to be rectified. It is a complex

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problem. The Mackay commission a couple of years ago looked at this.

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It has some ideas for dealing with this through parliamentary

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procedure. We certainly do not favour setting up some sort of

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elaborate English Parliament with all the paraphernalia around it. We

:12:01.:12:03.

do recognise the anomaly while we are also dealing with the Scottish

:12:04.:12:10.

devolution issue. But I thought the Lib Dems believed in federalism.

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Wouldn't federalism involve an English parliament? Not in a formal

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way. Setting up a new talking shop and institution is not necessary to

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capture the spirit of federalism. We are federal party. We see merit in

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going down the route that successful countries like Germany, Australia

:12:29.:12:34.

and the US have. But in order to introduce a fully federal system,

:12:35.:12:38.

you have a whole series of steps to navigate. The immediate issue is how

:12:39.:12:43.

you deal with the English votes for English issues. There are ways to

:12:44.:12:48.

deal with it and the Mackay commission suggests how best we do

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it. You say it is complicated but isn't it quite easy, if the bill

:12:54.:12:57.

does not apply to Scotland, Scottish MPs do not vote on it? That is a

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simple principle. When Mackay looked at it, he looked at different stages

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of the parliamentary process, one of the problems here is you have to

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separate out the issues which involve money, where of course there

:13:11.:13:16.

is partial devolution, and issues involving legal powers which are

:13:17.:13:19.

fully devolved. The issues are complex. A lot of thought by

:13:20.:13:25.

nonpolitical people have gone into this. There is no silver bullet. The

:13:26.:13:32.

principle of devolution in England, the principle of rectifying the West

:13:33.:13:36.

Lothian question, that is something Liberal Democrats fully accept. If

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the Prime Minister puts down a motion before Parliament this side

:13:42.:13:46.

of the election on English votes for English laws, how would the Lib Dems

:13:47.:13:52.

vote? It depends what the detail is. As I have said already, the

:13:53.:13:57.

principle has got to be addressed. There is a West Lothian question. It

:13:58.:14:02.

has to have a solution. But the devil is in the detail, rather than

:14:03.:14:06.

in the general principle, and that is what we have got to work through.

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There is a blueprint of a kind and we want to go back to the Mackay

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commission and see how much of that can be put into practice in a

:14:16.:14:19.

reasonable timescale. But you will know that the Mackay commission is

:14:20.:14:23.

not go nearly far enough for many people now, because it has simply

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said the English MPs could have a monopoly on the scrutiny of

:14:29.:14:41.

legislation for England, but at the end of the day, it would be the UK

:14:42.:14:44.

Parliament with everybody voting on it, as to whether it became law or

:14:45.:14:47.

not. That is not satisfactory to many people who think it has to be

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much more clear-cut. You have put your finger on one of the

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difficulties. That is not the only one. We have to negotiate this in

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parallel with more devolution to British cities. There is a clamour

:14:57.:15:00.

for Manchester, Birmingham, Newcastle, Bristol and so on to have

:15:01.:15:05.

more powers. London already have too some degree. The question is how you

:15:06.:15:10.

reconcile devolution to the cities with devolution to England as an

:15:11.:15:14.

entity within Parliament. This is all very tricky stuff and it has got

:15:15.:15:17.

to be dealt with carefully. Shouldn't that be a matter for

:15:18.:15:21.

English votes for English laws? Shouldn't it be up to the English to

:15:22.:15:31.

decide if they are going to decentralise to the major cities?

:15:32.:15:33.

That is what already happens. We already have city deals. That has

:15:34.:15:38.

not been a problem. There has been no conflict with Scottish

:15:39.:15:42.

colleagues. We did not extend the English city deals system to

:15:43.:15:46.

Glasgow. Within the UK we have this, we can entertain this

:15:47.:15:57.

imaginative arrangement. Mr Cable, can you still hear me? I can hear

:15:58.:16:02.

you very well, thank you. OK. Somebody must have cut us off. Can

:16:03.:16:08.

you clarify one final thing - given that it's been a Liberal Democrat

:16:09.:16:11.

policy for a long while and many people said you've been ahead of the

:16:12.:16:17.

game on voting for a federal UK and Menzies Campbell said, "We'll not

:16:18.:16:23.

wait to wait long before we can see a federal United Kingdom." If the

:16:24.:16:27.

Scots have their own Parliament and the Welsh and Northern Ireland too,

:16:28.:16:32.

why not the English? It comes down to what you mean by an English

:16:33.:16:36.

Parliament. If you are talking about a shiny building and new

:16:37.:16:39.

politicians, I don't think there's an appetite for that. But if you are

:16:40.:16:43.

talking about a place within Westminster, within the UK

:16:44.:16:47.

Parliament, where English issues are dealt with by English MPs, then that

:16:48.:16:53.

is an issue we have to focus on. As I've said, the Mackay Commission

:16:54.:16:57.

suggests a way forward and it also points out some of the problems.

:16:58.:17:05.

What about an English executive? If you had a fully federal system, but

:17:06.:17:10.

then you would have to have - within the UK it's unbalanced, the country

:17:11.:17:18.

is so much bigger and then you talk about regions and city regions and

:17:19.:17:21.

how power is devolved. You have to resolve all those problems before we

:17:22.:17:24.

talk about English executives. What we don't want to do is create an

:17:25.:17:32.

uber complex country. We have too much of that at the moment. We

:17:33.:17:38.

better leave it there. Thank you. Labour has most to lose if Scottish

:17:39.:17:44.

MPs are prevented from voting. They have 40 Labour seats in Scotland.

:17:45.:17:48.

What do delegates here think of the idea? Adam went out with his famous

:17:49.:17:53.

mood box to find out. Everyone's talking about the issue of English

:17:54.:17:58.

votes for English laws, so for the first mood box we are asking Labour

:17:59.:18:01.

delegates should Scottish MPs be banned from voting on English issues

:18:02.:18:08.

or not? No, I don't think so. Most legislation is sorted out across all

:18:09.:18:14.

national boundaries. What we need is decentralisation of power from

:18:15.:18:20.

Whitehall to local authorities. Do you know what the West Lothian

:18:21.:18:27.

question is? No. Our first banner. Do you think Scottish MPs should be

:18:28.:18:31.

allowed to vote on English matters in Parliament? Well, House of Lords

:18:32.:18:36.

can vote on English matters and they're not enelected. If Scottish

:18:37.:18:45.

people vote on their own, then we should, so I say no. You're on David

:18:46.:18:51.

Cameron's side of the argument? Can he retract what he said? We'll have

:18:52.:19:00.

the West Dorset question. The Tories determine the NHS and poverty and we

:19:01.:19:05.

have to make sure that people from the left are represented and the

:19:06.:19:09.

people in the poorest communities get represented equally. No holidays

:19:10.:19:13.

in Dorset for you for a while? No. I'm from Northern Ireland. We depend

:19:14.:19:19.

on the Barnet formula and we need to vote on English matters and we can

:19:20.:19:24.

know the share of the budget we are getting. I'm from the north-east of

:19:25.:19:28.

England and people are talking about it there, because in the north-east

:19:29.:19:31.

we feel that an English Parliament is what we need like a hole in the

:19:32.:19:37.

head. Should Scottish MPs be banned from voting on English issues in

:19:38.:19:41.

Parliament? Is there anyone Scottish here? I'm struggling to find anyone

:19:42.:19:48.

Scottish. They are not here yet. They'll be here later today, because

:19:49.:19:51.

they've been given the morning off because of the referendum. This is

:19:52.:19:55.

an interesting one, because you are a Scottish English MP. I'm a British

:19:56.:20:00.

MP and I think there's a lot of change going to have to occur at

:20:01.:20:07.

Westminster as a result of devo max, but it's not something cue do on the

:20:08.:20:11.

back of a fag packet. This is the Conservative Party. It has to be

:20:12.:20:23.

consistent. Therefore, we need a separate federal Parliament. Where

:20:24.:20:30.

would it be? London. That's not very devolutionary, is it? No. Yorkshire

:20:31.:20:39.

maybe? Can I take you back to front-line politics? It's a

:20:40.:20:45.

wonderful question on the balance of... How about Resident Milburn?

:20:46.:20:55.

I'm warming to your theme. That will get you back, being President? Oh,

:20:56.:21:00.

yes, watch out. That's pretty overwhelming people here do not want

:21:01.:21:07.

the ban. I suppose the only irony is, we didn't get a single vote from

:21:08.:21:16.

a Scottish MP. Jim Murphy grabbed the headlines after he was pelted

:21:17.:21:21.

with eggs by question question supporters. -- "yes" supporters. He

:21:22.:21:29.

joins me now. It was two accurates -- crates, one for each of my size

:21:30.:21:34.

13 feet. You managed to duck the mood box. Where would you have put

:21:35.:21:40.

the ball? The majority of people, so no. What is wrong with Scottish MPs

:21:41.:21:45.

not voting on matters that only effect England? I think there's a

:21:46.:21:51.

lot of things we have to discuss. All the disappointments of the

:21:52.:21:58.

post-referendum period is that the parties worked better together in

:21:59.:22:06.

beTer together. -- Better Together. The result were over? The ink was

:22:07.:22:11.

hardly dry and he was out there making his own proposals. Scotland

:22:12.:22:15.

took two years and taken two decades to get to this point. David Cameron

:22:16.:22:20.

seems to have done it in a few short moments and I think it's naked party

:22:21.:22:25.

politics and that's where we were in the Scottish referendum. It

:22:26.:22:28.

shouldn't be where we are when it comes to suggesting the United

:22:29.:22:33.

Kingdom's unwritten constitution. It also gells with people's idea of

:22:34.:22:39.

fairness. Scottish MPs vote for - Scottish politicians vote on

:22:40.:22:42.

Scottish laws, why shouldn't English politicians vote on English laws?

:22:43.:22:47.

What about Northern Ireland MPs? On any law that was England... Or the

:22:48.:22:54.

Welsh? Any law that affects only England, only English MPs vote?

:22:55.:22:58.

David Cameron is focussing on the Scots for the reason of party

:22:59.:23:02.

politics. When we had devolution in Northern Ireland no-one is talking

:23:03.:23:09.

about them or Wales. He said English vote for English people. We have

:23:10.:23:14.

devolution in London with the Mayor of London and London MPs vote on

:23:15.:23:18.

issues in the House that don't affect their constituents on

:23:19.:23:22.

transport, so there's so much here way beyond the single soundbite that

:23:23.:23:27.

David Cameron comes up with at 7.00am on Friday morning. We should

:23:28.:23:32.

have a convention and if we are looking at the lessons of Scotland,

:23:33.:23:36.

there is one lesson, I would like to see votes at 16 and 17. That was a

:23:37.:23:41.

great success. We should look at constitutional convention to look at

:23:42.:23:44.

all of the issues rather than one single issue as to whether Scottish

:23:45.:23:48.

MPs get to vote in the second reading of a housing bill. Why do

:23:49.:23:52.

you need a constitutional convention to tell you it's unfair that

:23:53.:23:58.

Scottish MPs interfere in English matters when English MPs don't

:23:59.:24:02.

interfere in Scottish matters? I've already said, there are London MPs

:24:03.:24:06.

voting and it doesn't affect their constituents. It's nothing like the

:24:07.:24:11.

power of the Scottish Parliament. On what basis should they not be

:24:12.:24:16.

allowed to vote on transport? This shows where we have an unwritten

:24:17.:24:20.

constitution that has evolved over the decades, and over the centuries,

:24:21.:24:25.

now surely we have time to reflect at a slower pace through a

:24:26.:24:31.

convention involving all the parties, civic societies... You want

:24:32.:24:36.

to kick them into touch? The answer is politically desperate for you,

:24:37.:24:40.

without your 40 Labour MPs from Scotland you cannot enforce your

:24:41.:24:43.

will in England? It's not about that at all. Of course it is. Everybody

:24:44.:24:47.

knows that. It's desperate of David Cameron to come up with this

:24:48.:24:50.

quarter-baked plan early in the morning on Friday. Surely we should

:24:51.:24:56.

do this at a reasonable pace, have a convention, allow the public of the

:24:57.:25:00.

United Kingdom in on this and should we have a Bill of Rights? Should we

:25:01.:25:04.

have a written constitution and people vote at 16 or 17? All of

:25:05.:25:09.

those issues are more important than the vote of Scottish MPs. You as a

:25:10.:25:15.

Scottish MP voted to increase top-up fees for English students. The bill

:25:16.:25:20.

was only enforced on England because of people like you and yet your

:25:21.:25:24.

constituents weren't facing top-up fees. You forced it on England and

:25:25.:25:28.

yet the Scots got away with not having it at all. How is that fair?

:25:29.:25:32.

I don't think that's correct in terms of the balance of votes in the

:25:33.:25:37.

House, but we'll leave that to one side. The Labour Government was only

:25:38.:25:42.

able to push it through on the back of 38 Scottish Labour MPs, a piece

:25:43.:25:46.

of legislation that affected England, but not Scotland. The

:25:47.:25:50.

Liberal Democrats voted against it and the Tories voted against it too.

:25:51.:25:58.

The principle is the maths. The Government want -- won by five

:25:59.:26:01.

votes. They wouldn't have won without the 37 Labour MPs. We have a

:26:02.:26:07.

situation where the constitution is a bit of a stramash in a haphazard

:26:08.:26:13.

way and we add on and take parts away. In the Scottish Parliament

:26:14.:26:18.

there's been a more careful way of doing it and I would rather do it

:26:19.:26:24.

more considered and my preference would be for a written constitution,

:26:25.:26:28.

where we can discuss the issues over voting powers and rights and who get

:26:29.:26:35.

to vote and which members of the public do vote. In the meantime, you

:26:36.:26:44.

are going to devolve income tax powers to the Scottish Parliament,

:26:45.:26:47.

that's part of the vow that your party and David Cameron made. So,

:26:48.:26:55.

the Scots will set their own income tax rates. Why should you have any

:26:56.:27:00.

right to set income tax rates for England? The Scots already have the

:27:01.:27:06.

power to set their income tax. The principle was agreed. The Parliament

:27:07.:27:11.

from day one had income tax power and through the Commission in

:27:12.:27:17.

2012... To devolve it further? I accept it's further. In 2012 they

:27:18.:27:21.

were devolved through the Commission and there was an ability to fade --

:27:22.:27:26.

vary the rates in income tax. You are right to say there are further

:27:27.:27:31.

powers. I think there has to be a response across the UK to all the

:27:32.:27:35.

issues. We'll look at Scotland and how to rebalance the constitution of

:27:36.:27:38.

the United Kingdom and do it effectively. Someone, not me,

:27:39.:27:43.

someone cleverer than me, described this approach as a dangerous dog

:27:44.:27:48.

act. Let's not do this in a rush. What is David Cameron's rush? I

:27:49.:27:52.

suspect he's trying to win a general election. It's naked Tory politics.

:27:53.:27:59.

Your party and the Tories and the Liberal Democrats did a huge rush

:28:00.:28:02.

when you looked like you might be losing the referendum. Let me ask

:28:03.:28:07.

you this - is it Labour policy to devolve all income tax powers to

:28:08.:28:14.

Edinburgh? It wasn't our policy in our proposals and we came forward

:28:15.:28:17.

with our proposals. The Liberal Democrats had theirs. I'm not asking

:28:18.:28:21.

about them. What is Labour's policy? We came forward with a policy. It

:28:22.:28:25.

wasn't full devolution. What is it now? No what we'll do is discuss

:28:26.:28:32.

with the Tories and the Liberal Democrats and let the people of

:28:33.:28:36.

Scotland in on the conversation and all three parties will have to give

:28:37.:28:41.

and take. We have our position and they have theirs. We'll try to find

:28:42.:28:45.

a common cause, even though the referendum is offer, with the three

:28:46.:28:48.

parties and involve the people of Scotland. I can't announce the

:28:49.:28:51.

outcome of something we have only just started doing. That's what

:28:52.:28:57.

David Cameron has done. Scottish devolution is happening at

:28:58.:28:59.

break-neck speed. There's no question about that. You've agreed

:29:00.:29:04.

to the speed. Yet, you sit here and you cannot tell our viewers what

:29:05.:29:08.

Labour's position is on devolving income tax to Scotland? Scottish

:29:09.:29:13.

devolution is not happening quickly. It's taken two decades. The campaign

:29:14.:29:20.

ran for two years. It's quicker, but it's not break-neck speed. What we

:29:21.:29:23.

are doing is the three parties, Labour, Conservative Party and

:29:24.:29:26.

Liberal Democrats their own plans and dint plans. We have said in

:29:27.:29:29.

light of the referendum, how can we speed up the plans and how can we

:29:30.:29:33.

find common cause? The only break-neck speed here is David

:29:34.:29:38.

Cameron and his haphazard quarter-baked ideas about how to

:29:39.:29:42.

treat Scottish MPs. One more time - can you tell me what Labour Party

:29:43.:29:52.

policy is in devolving income tax? Our policy is the same as it was on

:29:53.:29:57.

Friday mourning, to discuss with the Conservative Party, the Liberal

:29:58.:30:00.

Democrats and the people of Scotland to see what the right policy would

:30:01.:30:03.

be in terms of the balance of income tax. It's not complicated. I'm not

:30:04.:30:08.

going to make up a new policy on your programme today.

:30:09.:30:16.

What is your policy on devolving income taxed to Scotland? Our

:30:17.:30:26.

approach is to try and find an agreement with the other two parties

:30:27.:30:31.

who had a different policy. I know you have to sound frustrated... I am

:30:32.:30:39.

frustrated! That is your fault. You are not answering the question. I am

:30:40.:30:43.

not going to make up a new policy in three days. We will work with the

:30:44.:30:48.

other parties, discuss it with the people of Scotland and come to a

:30:49.:30:53.

consensus if we can. And then we will have a constitutional

:30:54.:30:55.

convention to rebalance the unwritten laws and the Constitution

:30:56.:31:01.

of the UK. I know when I am beaten, Jim Murphy. I will have some Irn-Bru

:31:02.:31:06.

next time I interview you! It is good for you.

:31:07.:31:12.

Just a few minutes until Ed Balls delivers his conference speech.

:31:13.:31:21.

In a moment I'll be talking to Nick Robinson about what we can

:31:22.:31:24.

But first Ed Balls is known, of course, as a political bruiser -

:31:25.:31:28.

but yesterday he showed that he can get a bit physical

:31:29.:31:30.

He was playing what was supposed to be a

:31:31.:31:34.

"friendly" charity match against a team of journalists, but Ed's elbow

:31:35.:31:36.

left one of his opponents with four stitches in his cheek ? ouch.

:31:37.:31:40.

And we're joined now by the journalist in question, Rob Merrick.

:31:41.:31:42.

How are you? I am fine. How did you feel? I was disappointed to go off

:31:43.:31:55.

because we were winning at the time. The rest did not even give a free

:31:56.:32:00.

kick. Look at that picture. Our shadow Chancellor? The pictures do

:32:01.:32:06.

not do him any favours but I have been sent off in this fixture before

:32:07.:32:11.

now so I am the last to complain about a few robust challenges. His

:32:12.:32:16.

response was your tackle was a bit tough. I am not sure he said that.

:32:17.:32:21.

He said I was trying to net a ball off him and he was putting up his

:32:22.:32:25.

arms to protect himself and he caught me on a soft spot. So no hard

:32:26.:32:33.

feelings? Definitely not. I'm convinced Ed will be hurting other

:32:34.:32:38.

people. We beat them 3-1 and he did not manage a target on shot. You

:32:39.:32:44.

will play him again? We will never retire. Speaking of a man who never

:32:45.:32:54.

retires, here Nick Robinson! I love the idea of it Ed Balls said you ran

:32:55.:33:02.

into his elbow, your face ran into his elbow. He has a nasty little

:33:03.:33:10.

bruise. That is the excuse people give the police on a Friday night,

:33:11.:33:15.

he ran into my fist. Has Ed Balls got more to say on what has been

:33:16.:33:21.

leaked so far? I think he has. We often get full briefings and

:33:22.:33:25.

full-text. We have not. I can tell you the little I know. What we have

:33:26.:33:31.

had so far is clearly designed to bolster what we will get. By saying

:33:32.:33:37.

I will take a tough decision, by saying I will take a decision on

:33:38.:33:43.

child benefit, albeit a small amount of money, what is he trying to do?

:33:44.:33:48.

He is trying to say to his conference critically and the

:33:49.:33:52.

public, look, I mean what I say when I say I am not going on a spending

:33:53.:33:58.

spree. There will be a lot of people saying we will be in power next

:33:59.:34:02.

year, boys and we will get spending again. He needs to say to them,

:34:03.:34:07.

honestly, I am not going to. Crucially, he needs to say to the

:34:08.:34:12.

country because Labour is way behind in terms of the credibility and

:34:13.:34:17.

opinion polls. Doesn't he also have to rally the troops are bit as well?

:34:18.:34:21.

They are way behind on economic competence in the polls. But he also

:34:22.:34:29.

have to give something, not just more cuts on child benefit,

:34:30.:34:34.

something that lift their spirits? The giveaway is the backdrop of the

:34:35.:34:39.

conference. They put those words up for a reason. We often think it is a

:34:40.:34:49.

load of old la. Labour's plan. Why does it say that? Every time someone

:34:50.:34:54.

stands up and says we have got a long-term economic plan in the

:34:55.:34:58.

Conservative Party, that has been hurting them. A lot of people do not

:34:59.:35:01.

like the coalition or the Tories but they say, at least that Cameron and

:35:02.:35:06.

Osborne have got a plan. I think what Ed Balls is going to try to do,

:35:07.:35:11.

but crucially Ed Miliband will do in his speech tomorrow, is to say, this

:35:12.:35:15.

is not just a series of little measures which do not connect, we

:35:16.:35:20.

have a plan and we know what we will do if we get in. I think the upside

:35:21.:35:25.

of what Ed Balls will do is to say, Yes one apprenticeships and

:35:26.:35:27.

house-building, we will do all of those but we will also deal with the

:35:28.:35:34.

deficit at the same time. Did he not give you a preview of his speech to

:35:35.:35:38.

make up for what he did? No I do not think I got an extra preview. I did

:35:39.:35:44.

come back from A to a story about Ed Balls making cuts which is the

:35:45.:35:49.

come back from A to a story about ultimate irony. I think he is the

:35:50.:35:54.

ultimate metaphor. He was toying with the joke yesterday about I can

:35:55.:36:00.

be guaranteed to deliver more bloody cuts but I think he took the view

:36:01.:36:05.

that that would not be appropriate. If he makes the gag later on about

:36:06.:36:11.

being in stitches! We can show you the picture as it builds up.

:36:12.:36:16.

Margaret Beckett is speaking to the conference at the moment. There is

:36:17.:36:22.

Ed Balls getting ready. And Mr Miliband. I can tell you that his

:36:23.:36:29.

speech has been delayed. It is not reckoned that he will speak until

:36:30.:36:37.

12:20pm. Do you know why, Nick? Not a clue. But I can bring you the

:36:38.:36:43.

vital news that this speech has been practised on an ironing board in the

:36:44.:36:45.

balls Cooper bedroom. You practised on an ironing board in the

:36:46.:36:50.

have something which is the practised on an ironing board in the

:36:51.:36:54.

of a podium. There is an ironing board in Ed Balls

:36:55.:36:57.

of a podium. There is an ironing Cooper's bedroom. It has on it a

:36:58.:37:02.

speaker's lector which apparently they bought from the United States.

:37:03.:37:09.

They had been trying it out on their aides who are under no pressure of

:37:10.:37:16.

course to laugh and clap. All right. We are now hearing that he will get

:37:17.:37:24.

on his feet at 12:11pm. -- Patsy has been told to hurry up. -- perhaps he

:37:25.:37:39.

has been told to hurry up. Because Labour have a different attitude to

:37:40.:37:44.

borrowing, to the current coalition and particularly the Tories, he

:37:45.:37:50.

would have room to borrow up to ?28 billion more, over three years from

:37:51.:37:55.

2015 to 2018, the time of the next election, he would have the room to

:37:56.:38:02.

spend and borrow ?28 million more. Why? Because the Tory goal is to

:38:03.:38:08.

effectively stop borrowing in 2018. Ed Balls argues that there is

:38:09.:38:11.

nothing wrong with borrowing to build things, to invest, and that

:38:12.:38:17.

would allow in this kind of room. The irony is it is eye-catching to

:38:18.:38:23.

talk about child benefit, which may save he says 400 million. The

:38:24.:38:26.

Treasury are saying it will save about a third of that, but actually,

:38:27.:38:33.

this is chicken feed compared to these big differences in

:38:34.:38:35.

macroeconomic policy which gives them a lot more room. I understand

:38:36.:38:42.

he is saying he will run a surplus on the current spending, and he will

:38:43.:38:47.

still borrow to invest in capital spending, on infrastructure and

:38:48.:38:51.

things like that. But he is also saying he will pay down the national

:38:52.:38:55.

debt. He cannot pay down the national debt if he is continuing to

:38:56.:39:01.

borrow on capital account. Unless the runs a very big current account

:39:02.:39:07.

service. He would have to run a lot. I have not seen any figures to

:39:08.:39:12.

explain that. I do not think you will get them today either, in

:39:13.:39:16.

truth. His defence always is that you do not know the state of the

:39:17.:39:21.

economy so it is mad to set out the figures early. They are all haunted

:39:22.:39:26.

by the great shadow budget as it was known of John Smith before the 1992

:39:27.:39:31.

election, which spells out a lot of detail, designed to tackle the

:39:32.:39:35.

Tories' claim that the figures did not add up and you did not know what

:39:36.:39:40.

Labour would do. The state of politics and the economy changed and

:39:41.:39:42.

they were stuck with this plan which was two years old and some argue

:39:43.:39:48.

that helped Neil Kinnock lose the election against John Major. We are

:39:49.:39:55.

talking about nurses pay, teachers' pay, welfare spending, all the

:39:56.:40:02.

things which makes this party and the country tick. Guess, and you're

:40:03.:40:07.

certainly not talking about meeting that goal by a couple of hundred

:40:08.:40:11.

million on curbing child benefit. There is no way that that would meet

:40:12.:40:15.

that. You would need something much more substantial. Is a Mr Balls

:40:16.:40:21.

running out of time? It has been four years now, there has been a lot

:40:22.:40:30.

of austerity and still Labour's credibility on economic matters is

:40:31.:40:33.

way behind the Conservatives and we are only seven or eight months until

:40:34.:40:37.

the election? Jelena I think that is what so many people fear, that it is

:40:38.:40:43.

too late to make up the ground. I wonder if they have underestimated

:40:44.:40:49.

how popular with activists in cutting child benefit will be. I

:40:50.:40:53.

have a message on my phone from someone who is furious about it. It

:40:54.:41:00.

is not meaningful in economic terms as you explained. I wonder if it

:41:01.:41:06.

will play worse than he expects. Margaret back -- Beckett has sat

:41:07.:41:17.

down. She is a Labour veteran. The huge hall looks pretty busy. I think

:41:18.:41:22.

we are ready to see the shadow Chancellor get to his feet. He is

:41:23.:41:29.

being introduced. The big speech, I guess is Ed Miliband tomorrow. This

:41:30.:41:33.

is preparing for it, laying the foundations for it. Ed Miliband has

:41:34.:41:39.

two convince people that they can see him as Prime Minister. Let's go

:41:40.:41:40.

to Ed Balls now. Thank you very much, Angela.

:41:41.:42:00.

Conference, 20 years ago, at this Labour conference, we'd together

:42:01.:42:05.

took the historic step of reforming our party's Constitution. The result

:42:06.:42:09.

is on the back of our membership card today. Our goal, a community in

:42:10.:42:16.

which power, wealth and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not

:42:17.:42:22.

the few. Our conviction that by the strength of our common endeavour, we

:42:23.:42:29.

achieve more than we achieve alone. 20 years on, that Labour vision, our

:42:30.:42:34.

Labour values are more relevant than they have ever been. While our

:42:35.:42:42.

economy is growing again, taxes are up, wages are down, NHS waiting

:42:43.:42:48.

times are rising, most working people are not seeing any benefit

:42:49.:42:52.

from the recovery. It is no wonder that the country is crying out for

:42:53.:42:58.

change. But at a time when trust in all politicians is at an all-time

:42:59.:43:03.

low, and when even after deep spending cuts and tax rises for

:43:04.:43:07.

working people, our deficit is still high, this is our task. Not to

:43:08.:43:13.

flinch from the tough decisions we have to make, but to show the

:43:14.:43:16.

country there is a better way forward. Labour's plan for

:43:17.:43:23.

Britain's future, our common endeavour, to build an economy that

:43:24.:43:28.

works for the many, not the few. For all working people in every part of

:43:29.:43:31.

our United Kingdom. APPLAUSE

:43:32.:43:39.

And conference, when we think of those words, by the strength of our

:43:40.:43:43.

common endeavour, we achieve more than we achieve alone. Don't they

:43:44.:43:50.

resonate more loudly, after the events of the last few days and

:43:51.:43:54.

weeks, because conference, we meet here in Manchester, a united party

:43:55.:44:00.

in our still United Kingdom. APPLAUSE

:44:01.:44:08.

And let us pay tribute to Joe and Lamont and Margaret Curran, Alistair

:44:09.:44:14.

Darling and Gordon Brown, Anna Sarwar, Jim Murphy, Douglas

:44:15.:44:20.

Alexander, Cathy Jamieson, all the MPs, MSP 's, party workers,

:44:21.:44:23.

volunteers, up more beyond our MPs, MSP 's, party workers,

:44:24.:44:27.

as well, who worked so tirelessly to win last week's

:44:28.:44:30.

as well, who worked so tirelessly to thank them all -- Johann Lamont. But

:44:31.:44:41.

let us never forget. After all the campaigning and the brilliant

:44:42.:44:45.

barnstorming speeches, the decision to stay together and shape

:44:46.:44:50.

Scotland's future within our United Kingdom, was not made by politicians

:44:51.:44:55.

or pundits. It was made by the people of Scotland. They voted to

:44:56.:45:01.

retain the shared prosperity and security and solidarity our union

:45:02.:45:05.

brings. But the people of Scotland did not vote for the status quo.

:45:06.:45:10.

They voted for the opportunity to shape Scotland's future with greater

:45:11.:45:15.

devolution and it is our duty to deliver on that promise, and for

:45:16.:45:19.

Wales and for the cities and regions of England as well. Yes, we do need

:45:20.:45:28.

to change our constitution and reform and strengthen our union in a

:45:29.:45:34.

fair way. A process which as Ed has said, must start with

:45:35.:45:38.

fair way. A process which as Ed has politicians. We know too that in

:45:39.:45:42.

Scotland and across the rest of the United Kingdom people want bigger

:45:43.:45:47.

change than that. Change which goes beyond powers and processes and

:45:48.:45:51.

Parliaments and constitutions. It's radical change. To build an economy

:45:52.:45:57.

that works for all working people. Knocking on doors, in my

:45:58.:46:01.

constituency a few Sundays ago, I spoke to a mum and she told me her

:46:02.:46:07.

teenage son had finished college and he had been looking for a job for

:46:08.:46:12.

ages. She so relieved when he finally found a job, but she was

:46:13.:46:16.

worried because he's on a zero-hours contract. Every morning he rings in

:46:17.:46:21.

at 7.00am to see if they want him and when they say no, he has to wait

:46:22.:46:29.

around all day. She said, "It breaks my heart, because he deserves better

:46:30.:46:34.

than that." She is right and that story's no exception. It's one of

:46:35.:46:39.

thousands and thousands of doorstep stories all of us here across the

:46:40.:46:43.

country every week hear. Parents worried about whether their children

:46:44.:46:47.

will get a job or apprenticeship and whether the next generation will be

:46:48.:46:53.

worse off than ours. And they are relying on us, Labour, to make

:46:54.:46:57.

things better. Families and pensioners seeing prices rising in

:46:58.:47:01.

the shops, heating bills going up and up. Millions of people in the

:47:02.:47:06.

private and in the public sectors struggling without a pay rise or

:47:07.:47:10.

unable to get the hours they need, still not feeling benefit from the

:47:11.:47:15.

recovery and relying on us, Labour, to make things better. Young people

:47:16.:47:22.

struggling to save to buy a house. Disabled people and family carers

:47:23.:47:26.

forced to pay the Government's bedroom tax and thousands of people

:47:27.:47:30.

working in the NHS and millions more relying on our NHS, worried about

:47:31.:47:36.

waiting times, rising and creeping privatisation, rely on us, Labour,

:47:37.:47:42.

to make things better. And conference, we must not let them

:47:43.:47:48.

down. And that is why it's our job to go on and win the next general

:47:49.:47:53.

election and change Britain and deliver this country from this

:47:54.:47:58.

unfair out-of-touch and failing Tory government. And conference, we all

:47:59.:48:11.

know the great weight of responsibility we carry on our

:48:12.:48:17.

shoulders. That is why this party is so united and determined and fired

:48:18.:48:20.

up to get Ed into Downing Street. Over the last four years, Ed has led

:48:21.:48:28.

us from the front, reforming our party and leading a shadow Cabinet

:48:29.:48:32.

with more women and more candidates than ever before and modernising our

:48:33.:48:36.

relationship with the trade unions and standing up for the victims of

:48:37.:48:40.

phone hacking and speaking up for the people of Britain on the cost of

:48:41.:48:44.

living crisis and demanding the reforms we need to change our

:48:45.:48:50.

economy at every stage and he has led this party with courage and

:48:51.:48:57.

strength and vision and principle and he will do the same for this

:48:58.:49:01.

country, our leader, Britain's next Prime Minister, Ed Miliband.

:49:02.:49:10.

APPLAUSE As for David Cameron and George

:49:11.:49:16.

Osborne, going around the country saying they've fixed the economy and

:49:17.:49:21.

telling people they've never had it so good, how out of touch can you

:49:22.:49:31.

get? Prices still raising faster than wages and the Tories say

:49:32.:49:34.

they've fixed the economy. The lowest recovery for 100 years,

:49:35.:49:39.

business investment still lagging behind and the lowest level of house

:49:40.:49:45.

building since the 1920s. One in six young people out of work and the

:49:46.:49:51.

gender pay gap widening. Over a million zero-hours contracts and

:49:52.:49:55.

working people, 1600 a year worse off and the Tories say they've fixed

:49:56.:49:59.

the economy. What planet are they on? Conference, working people

:50:00.:50:03.

cannot afford five more years of this Tory government.

:50:04.:50:13.

APPLAUSE You know, when the Tories say

:50:14.:50:19.

they've fixed the economy we know what they've really meant. The

:50:20.:50:23.

millionaires who got a massive tax cut, that's who they've fixed it

:50:24.:50:32.

for. The hedge funds funding the Tory Party and the big investors

:50:33.:50:38.

buying Royal Mail and Russian oligarchs in tennis mashes with

:50:39.:50:42.

Boris and Dave. Conference, it's the same old Tories.

:50:43.:50:52.

APPLAUSE It's the same old Tory economics

:50:53.:50:58.

too. Cutting taxes at the top, and hoping wealth will somehow trickle

:50:59.:51:02.

down. Standing up for a privileged few, while everyone is left behind

:51:03.:51:09.

for the few, not the many, David Cameron, George Osborne, Nick Clegg,

:51:10.:51:14.

it's the same old Tories every one of them.

:51:15.:51:24.

APPLAUSE And now, David Cameron thinks a

:51:25.:51:29.

grateful and devoted nation is going to give him another five years in

:51:30.:51:36.

Downing Street. Another five years. You know what, even his own party

:51:37.:51:43.

don't believe him any more. APPLAUSE Do you remember Cameron's A

:51:44.:51:52.

list? Nine Tories elected in 2010 already standing down from the A

:51:53.:51:57.

list to the exit door innious four years. Nine Tories leaving. Another

:51:58.:52:08.

scurrying off to UKIP. And Boris scrambling back to Westminster

:52:09.:52:12.

preparing to elbow David Cameron out of the way. Although, perhaps today

:52:13.:52:20.

the less said about elbows the better. That's today's Tories. Going

:52:21.:52:28.

on about Cameron, giving up on the general election, starting to fight

:52:29.:52:32.

the next Tory leadership election instead. Conference, just remember

:52:33.:52:44.

what Boris - Michael Gove said, just remember what he said a few weeks

:52:45.:52:53.

ago over a boozy dinner with his old boss, Rupert Murdoch, which somehow

:52:54.:52:58.

found its way into the newspapers. I don't know how? ! Michael Gove said

:52:59.:53:07.

that Boris Johnson has no gravitas. He said Theresa May has no friends.

:53:08.:53:14.

He said only George Osborne is fit to lead. Only George Osborne is fit

:53:15.:53:25.

to lead? And how did Michael Gove explain his comments? He said he was

:53:26.:53:31.

tipsy. LAUGHTER Tipsy?

:53:32.:53:34.

He must have been completely legless!

:53:35.:53:44.

Conference, we know working people can't afford five more years of the

:53:45.:53:51.

Tories, but this is no time for complacency, because this is the

:53:52.:53:55.

hard truth that we learned not just from events in Scotland, but also

:53:56.:53:58.

from the local and European elections, the rise of you cup from

:53:59.:54:03.

the conversations we have on doorsteps and in workplaces week

:54:04.:54:07.

after week. Yes, the Tories are deeply unpopular, yes, the country's

:54:08.:54:11.

crying out for change, but even after the progress and successes of

:54:12.:54:16.

our last four years, we have more to do to show Labour can deliver the

:54:17.:54:20.

change people want to see. That we have learned from our time in

:54:21.:54:24.

government. To show we will make the tough decisions to get the deficit

:54:25.:54:27.

down and that we can change our economy and make it work for working

:54:28.:54:33.

people. Conference, it's more important than ever that we, the

:54:34.:54:37.

Labour Party, are honest with the country about what the last Labour

:54:38.:54:41.

government got right and what we got wrong. Like you, I'm proud of so

:54:42.:54:49.

many of the things we did. Conference, we, Labour, introduced

:54:50.:54:53.

the first-ever national minimum wage and we will raise the minimum waning

:54:54.:55:05.

if we win the election next year. APPLAUSE

:55:06.:55:08.

We, Labour, introduced free nursery places for the first time ever and

:55:09.:55:13.

we will expand free childcare for working parents if we win the

:55:14.:55:23.

election next year. APPLAUSE

:55:24.:55:24.

We, Labour, introduced civil partnerships and paved the way this

:55:25.:55:30.

year for our country's first-ever same-sex marriages and opened 3,500

:55:31.:55:36.

children's centres and made the right call not joining the euro and

:55:37.:55:42.

starting in 1997, after 18 years of neglect, we we formed the NHS, we

:55:43.:55:47.

invested in the NHS, we cut waiting times from 18 months to 18 weeks in

:55:48.:55:53.

the NHS. Conference, we saved our National Health Service from the

:55:54.:56:03.

Tories. APPLAUSE

:56:04.:56:07.

Next year, after just five years of David Cameron, with waiting times

:56:08.:56:13.

rising, fewer nurses, a crisis in A, we will have to save the NHS

:56:14.:56:20.

from the Tories once again and we will do what it takes, because

:56:21.:56:25.

conference, it's the oldest trick in the book - you can never ever trust

:56:26.:56:40.

the Tories with the NHS. APPLAUSE

:56:41.:56:43.

Conference, we can be proud of many of the things we did. But where we

:56:44.:56:49.

made mistakes, like all government do, we should be grown up about it.

:56:50.:56:53.

We should put our hands up, learn from the past and explain how we'll

:56:54.:56:57.

do things differently in the future. We should have had tougher rules on

:56:58.:57:01.

immigration from eastern Europe. It was a mistake not to have

:57:02.:57:05.

transitional controls in 2004. We must change the rules in the future.

:57:06.:57:09.

Longer transitional controls for new countries. A longer time people have

:57:10.:57:13.

to work before they can get benefits. Stopping people claiming

:57:14.:57:18.

tax credits and child benefit and sending it to families abroad and

:57:19.:57:25.

cracking down on employiers who exploit migrant working by avoiding

:57:26.:57:29.

the minimum wage and tough controls and fairer rules. That is what we

:57:30.:57:32.

mean when we talk about fair movement, not free movement. And

:57:33.:57:37.

conference, while it was the banks which caused the global recession,

:57:38.:57:41.

it was the global recession which caused deficits to rise here in

:57:42.:57:44.

Britain and around the world and the truth is we should have regulated

:57:45.:57:48.

the banks in a tougher way. It was a mistake. We should apologise and I

:57:49.:57:51.

do. Plaus plau

:57:52.:57:57.

-- APPLAUSE Paver As we get the deficit

:57:58.:58:02.

down again, we must reform the banks, so it can never happen again.

:58:03.:58:06.

And conference, we didn't do enough to tackle the underlying causes of

:58:07.:58:11.

rising spending on housing benefit and in-work poverty, so we'll raise

:58:12.:58:16.

the minimum wage and build more homes and cap overall spending on

:58:17.:58:21.

social security. And we should not have scrapped the 10 pence starting

:58:22.:58:27.

rate of tax. APPLAUSE

:58:28.:58:30.

Conference, we don't just need to learn from our mistakes, we also

:58:31.:58:35.

need to put right the mistakes this Government is making. So, we won't

:58:36.:58:42.

pay for new free schools in areas where there are excess school

:58:43.:58:53.

places. APPLAUSE

:58:54.:58:57.

Conference, we will repeal the NHS bill and stop the creeping

:58:58.:59:00.

privatisation of the National Health Service. And yes, conference, in our

:59:01.:59:14.

first Budget, the next Labour Government will scrap the bedroom

:59:15.:59:15.

tax too. We'll build on our record and

:59:16.:59:29.

leadership the mistakes from the last government and put right the

:59:30.:59:33.

mistakes of the Tories. We will change Britain and change the Labour

:59:34.:59:37.

Party changing Britain, but we'll also face great challenges. Working

:59:38.:59:41.

people are already paying more taxes, our public services are under

:59:42.:59:46.

great pressure. We know there would have had to have been tough

:59:47.:59:50.

decisions on tax and pay restraint, whoever was in Government, but three

:59:51.:59:54.

years of lost growth at the start of this Parliament means we'll have to

:59:55.:00:02.

deal with a deficit of ?75 billion. Not that balanced Budget George

:00:03.:00:07.

Osborne promised. That will make our task hugely difficult and this goes

:00:08.:00:11.

to the heart of the political challenge we'll face.

:00:12.:00:22.

balance the books and we will make the sums add up and we will not duck

:00:23.:00:29.

the decisions they face if they return us to government. Working

:00:30.:00:32.

people have to balance their own books and they are clear that

:00:33.:00:35.

government has to balance its own books as well. We will balance the

:00:36.:00:41.

books. There will be tough fiscal rules. We will get the current

:00:42.:00:45.

budget into surplus and the national debt falling as soon as possible in

:00:46.:00:50.

the next Parliament. Tough fiscal rules, our National policy Forum

:00:51.:00:58.

endorsed in July, said however difficult, our party can unite in

:00:59.:01:03.

tough times to agree a radical, credible and fully costed programme

:01:04.:01:08.

to government. We will legislate those rules in the first year of

:01:09.:01:13.

government. They will be independently monitored by the

:01:14.:01:16.

office for budget responsibility. In our manifesto there will be no

:01:17.:01:21.

proposals for any new spending paid for by borrowing. No new commitments

:01:22.:01:24.

without saying where the money is coming from because we will not make

:01:25.:01:28.

promises we cannot keep and cannot afford. And because we will need an

:01:29.:01:34.

iron commitment to fiscal discipline, we want the office for

:01:35.:01:38.

budget responsibility to be allowed independently to audit the costing

:01:39.:01:44.

and spending for every tax measure in Labour's manifesto and those in

:01:45.:01:48.

other parties as well, a bold reform which the Tories are desperate to

:01:49.:01:53.

block, because they are running scared from having their own

:01:54.:01:58.

manifesto subject to independent scrutiny and because David Cameron

:01:59.:02:03.

and George Osborne want to carry on peddling untruths and smears about

:02:04.:02:08.

Labour's plans. Conference, the next Labour government will get the

:02:09.:02:19.

deficit down. Ed Miliband and all my shadow cabinet colleagues are

:02:20.:02:24.

clear, it will mean cuts and tough decisions. We will take the lead. I

:02:25.:02:29.

can announce today that if we win the election on day one of the next

:02:30.:02:32.

Labour government, the pay of every minister will be cut by 5%.

:02:33.:02:38.

Ministerial pay will be frozen each year until we have achieved our

:02:39.:02:42.

promise to balance the nation's books, because we are clear that

:02:43.:02:46.

everybody in the next Labour government must be fully focused on

:02:47.:02:48.

the task of getting the deficit down. Our 0-based review of public

:02:49.:02:54.

spending is examining every pound spent by government to cut waste and

:02:55.:02:58.

make difficult choices and setting out how we can make money and

:02:59.:03:04.

improve care by having a single budget and joint management. If it

:03:05.:03:09.

has set out how police forces will work more closely together to make

:03:10.:03:15.

savings and we will scrap Police and Crime Commissioners so we can do

:03:16.:03:18.

more to protect front-line policing -- Yvette Cooper has set out how

:03:19.:03:25.

police forces will work more closely. Hillary is working with the

:03:26.:03:29.

toughest and best generation of local government leaders to make

:03:30.:03:34.

savings and free up resources for the front line. We will look to

:03:35.:03:38.

prioritise early intervention now which can save billions of pounds in

:03:39.:03:42.

the future and we will insist that all the proceeds from the sale of

:03:43.:03:49.

our stakes in Lloyds and RBS, are used not for a frivolous

:03:50.:03:54.

pre-election giveaway, but instead, every penny of profit will be used

:03:55.:03:59.

to reduce the national debt. Conference, that is fiscal will

:04:00.:04:02.

sponsor the little in the national interest. And we will have to make

:04:03.:04:06.

other decisions, which I know will not be popular with everyone. At a

:04:07.:04:10.

time when the public services that pensioners rely on are under such

:04:11.:04:14.

pressure, we will stop paying the winter fuel allowance for the

:04:15.:04:18.

richest 5% of pensioners. Over the long-term, as life expect in the

:04:19.:04:24.

rises, we will need to continue to raise the retirement age to keep our

:04:25.:04:29.

pension system affordable. We will cap social structural security

:04:30.:04:32.

spending and keep the benefits cap, but we will make sure it properly

:04:33.:04:37.

reflects local housing costs. Conference, I want to see child

:04:38.:04:41.

benefit rising again in line with inflation in the next Parliament,

:04:42.:04:45.

but we will not spend money we can't afford. For the first two years of

:04:46.:04:50.

the parliament, we will cap the rise in child benefit at 1%, we will save

:04:51.:04:54.

400 main pounds in the next Parliament. All the savings will go

:04:55.:04:58.

to cutting the deficit -- ?400 million. We will ask those who have

:04:59.:05:07.

the most to make the biggest contribution. That is why we oppose

:05:08.:05:13.

David Cameron cutting the 50p top rate of tax. Now cannot be the time

:05:14.:05:18.

to give the richest 1% of people in the country 3 billion tax cut. As we

:05:19.:05:23.

get the deficit down in the next Parliament, the Labour government

:05:24.:05:26.

will reverse this Tory tax cut for millionaires. We will balance the

:05:27.:05:39.

budget in a fairer way. In the next Parliament, when we will continue to

:05:40.:05:44.

face tough spending constraints, I want pay settlements which are both

:05:45.:05:49.

affordable and fair. Private and public sector workers should all

:05:50.:05:53.

sharing rising prosperity. Labour will not undermine fairness and the

:05:54.:06:00.

independent pay review bodies by rejecting their advice out of hand.

:06:01.:06:08.

Instead, we will work with the pay review bodies, employers and

:06:09.:06:13.

employees, to ensure pay settlements are affordable and fair, and do more

:06:14.:06:17.

for those on the lowest pay with tough settlements at the top.

:06:18.:06:22.

Conference, we will also scrap the shares for rights screen. We will

:06:23.:06:26.

reverse the tax cuts for hedge funds is. We will crack down on tax

:06:27.:06:30.

avoidance and loopholes. And we will levy a tax on the highest value

:06:31.:06:34.

properties, a mansion tax on houses worth more than ?2 million. But we

:06:35.:06:44.

will do it in a fair, sensible and proportional way, raising it in line

:06:45.:06:46.

with house prices, putting in protections for those who are asset

:06:47.:06:49.

rich and cash poor. And ensuring those with properties worth tens of

:06:50.:06:54.

millions of pounds make a significantly bigger contribution

:06:55.:06:58.

than those in houses just above the limit. How can it be right that a

:06:59.:07:04.

billionaire overseas buyer this year of ?140 million, penthouse in

:07:05.:07:10.

Westminster, will pay just ?26 a week in property tax, the same as

:07:11.:07:14.

the average value property in that area? Conference, we will make

:07:15.:07:22.

different choices for fairer deficit reduction and to safeguard our vital

:07:23.:07:26.

public services. That is Labour's plans to balance the books in a

:07:27.:07:30.

fairer way. APPLAUSE

:07:31.:07:38.

Conference, our plan will balance the books. But an economic plan must

:07:39.:07:44.

do much more than that. We also need to change the way our economy works.

:07:45.:07:48.

We must restore the broken link between the Wealth of Nations and

:07:49.:07:53.

finally for finances and deliver prosperity for all -- family

:07:54.:07:59.

finances. Across the world, rapid technological change is replacing

:08:00.:08:02.

not just on skilled but skilled jobs as well, in banking and offices, as

:08:03.:08:07.

well as on production lines. The result is our hollowing out in our

:08:08.:08:14.

Labour market with low-wage and insecure it employment on the rise.

:08:15.:08:19.

Conference, in this new world, we cannot succeed the Tory way to a

:08:20.:08:24.

race to the bottom with British companies simply competing on cost,

:08:25.:08:30.

as people see their job security row did and living standards decline. We

:08:31.:08:33.

can only succeed and create the number of good jobs we need in a

:08:34.:08:39.

race to the top. Labour's economic plan will transform vocational

:08:40.:08:43.

education. We will work with employers to produce a gold standard

:08:44.:08:47.

technical education and radically expand apprenticeships and we will

:08:48.:08:52.

get young people back to work. Rachel Reeves will introduce

:08:53.:08:55.

compulsory jobs guarantee, a pledge for young people and they

:08:56.:08:58.

un-employed which people will have to take up or lose benefits. It will

:08:59.:09:03.

be paid for by repeating the tax on bank bonuses. We will end the

:09:04.:09:06.

scourge of long-term unemployment once and for all.

:09:07.:09:14.

APPLAUSE And because a modern economy depends

:09:15.:09:19.

on not just traditional infrastructure, but on the most

:09:20.:09:23.

important modern infrastructure of, we will increased the bank levy to

:09:24.:09:32.

expand childcare for working parents to 25 hours a week to help mums and

:09:33.:09:38.

dads balance family life. We will give tax breaks to firms which paid

:09:39.:09:42.

a living wage. We will end the exploitative use of zero hours

:09:43.:09:47.

contracts and by the end of the next Parliament, Labour will increase the

:09:48.:09:50.

national minimum wage to ?8 an hour. APPLAUSE

:09:51.:09:57.

And what is the Tory plan for the next Parliament? They want to spend

:09:58.:10:04.

?3 billion on a tax break for a minority of married couples. People

:10:05.:10:10.

who are separated, widowed or divorced, they will not get it.

:10:11.:10:14.

People who fled and divorced and divorced an abusive partner, they

:10:15.:10:19.

will not get it. Read the small print, two thirds of married couples

:10:20.:10:24.

will not get it. Five out of six families with children will not get

:10:25.:10:29.

it either. And the Tories call that a flagship policy for families. In

:10:30.:10:35.

our first budget, we will scrap this unfair policy and instead use the

:10:36.:10:40.

money to introduce a 10p starting rate of income tax. A tax cut for 24

:10:41.:10:45.

million people on middle and lower incomes. More working people will

:10:46.:10:50.

benefit. More women will benefit. More married couples will benefit.

:10:51.:10:53.

More families will children will benefit. That is a fairer way to

:10:54.:10:59.

help working people in tough times. And conference, Labour's economic

:11:00.:11:04.

plan means modern industrial policy to back the new growth sectors,

:11:05.:11:09.

manufacturing, clean technology and the creative industries. We want

:11:10.:11:13.

proper competition in banking and energy markets. New takeover rules

:11:14.:11:17.

to support long-term investment, not as stripping. Proper investment

:11:18.:11:22.

banks and businesses get the finance they need. Chuka Umunna and I have

:11:23.:11:29.

asked Graeme Cole, chair of Augusta Westland UK, to also review what

:11:30.:11:34.

more we can do to back British exports. We will keep our

:11:35.:11:39.

corporation tax rates the lowest of the G7, but instead of another

:11:40.:11:43.

corporation tax rate next year, our plan will instead that money to cut

:11:44.:11:48.

business rates for small firms because it is time, conference, that

:11:49.:11:54.

we had a fairer deal for small businesses in our country.

:11:55.:12:01.

Conference, why should decisions on what skills Manchester needs be made

:12:02.:12:07.

in Whitehall? Why should a Transport Minister in Westminster make

:12:08.:12:10.

decisions about all the transport needs of Birmingham, Newcastle or

:12:11.:12:15.

Leeds? Our economic plan will devolve power and resources, not

:12:16.:12:19.

only to Scotland and Wales, but to the city and county regions in every

:12:20.:12:25.

part of England. Our new independent national infrastructure commission

:12:26.:12:29.

will end dither and delay on big infrastructure decisions we need for

:12:30.:12:32.

the future. And whatever the outcome of the Howard Davies review into egg

:12:33.:12:39.

port capacity, we must resolve to finally make a decision on airport

:12:40.:12:44.

capacity in London and the south-east, expanding capacity while

:12:45.:12:48.

taking into account environmental impact. No more kicking it into the

:12:49.:12:52.

long grass, but taking the right decisions for Britain's long-term

:12:53.:12:58.

future. And conference, in the housing market, demand is

:12:59.:13:02.

outstripping supply, risking a premature rise in interest rates,

:13:03.:13:07.

the housing benefit bill is rising. Following the Lions report which we

:13:08.:13:11.

will publish in a few weeks and making housing priority, within the

:13:12.:13:15.

existing capital settlement for the next Parliament, Laboureconomic plan

:13:16.:13:22.

will get at least 200,000 new homes built by 2020. Creating jobs,

:13:23.:13:26.

helping first-time buyers and building the homes Britain needs for

:13:27.:13:28.

the future. APPLAUSE

:13:29.:13:37.

. Labour's economic clan is based on the clear conviction that Britain

:13:38.:13:43.

has always succeeded and can only succeed in the future of open,

:13:44.:13:48.

internationalist and outward facing trading nation. We need reform in

:13:49.:13:52.

Europe will stop cutting wasteful subsidies, getting the euro area

:13:53.:13:57.

growing again, reforming jobs and ending the waste of two European

:13:58.:14:03.

Parliaments, let us all build the alliances to secure reform and

:14:04.:14:05.

change Europe so it works better for Britain. As we heard so powerfully

:14:06.:14:10.

this morning from the Chief Executive of Airbus, we are not

:14:11.:14:15.

going to earn our way into higher living standards by walking away

:14:16.:14:20.

from our biggest single market. Let us say loud and clear, walking away

:14:21.:14:26.

from Europe would be a disaster for British jobs and investment. On

:14:27.:14:31.

Europe, this party will always put the national interest first.

:14:32.:14:45.

APPLAUSE Conference, that's Labour's economic plan. It's the kind of

:14:46.:14:49.

government we should be, ambitious, reforming, doing what it takes to

:14:50.:14:53.

deliver, an economy that works for working people in every part of

:14:54.:14:57.

Britain. And that's the kind of Chancellor I want to be too. People

:14:58.:15:02.

rightly want to know who we are, what drives us on, what makes us

:15:03.:15:10.

tick. Let me say this - I'd always rather taxes were lower, but my

:15:11.:15:14.

first tax cuts would be for millions of hard-working people and not

:15:15.:15:19.

millionaires. I hate wasteful spending, but I hate the waste of

:15:20.:15:24.

one in six young people out of work. I'm pro-business, but not business

:15:25.:15:28.

as usual. I'm pro-Europe, but never join the euro. I love the NHS, I'll

:15:29.:15:34.

do whatever it takes to save it. And above all else, I want to build a

:15:35.:15:39.

better and fairer country for my children and all our children.

:15:40.:15:44.

Because, as soon who has grown up with a stammer being I've worked all

:15:45.:15:48.

my political life to breakdown barriers so that all children can

:15:49.:15:52.

succeed. To get extra help and support to those children who need

:15:53.:15:56.

it, because I don't want to live in a society where children are held

:15:57.:16:01.

back by their special need or their disability by their parents' income

:16:02.:16:05.

or the colour of their skin. That's why I'm Labour. I'm a real list.

:16:06.:16:21.

APPLAUSE I'm a realist and an optimist. I don't believe in

:16:22.:16:26.

dpuBGing difficult decisions, unpopular decisions hard truths, but

:16:27.:16:30.

I believe in the power of politics and public service to make a

:16:31.:16:35.

difference. That's who I am. And that's what our Labour Party is for

:16:36.:16:39.

and that's why I am proud to be a member of this party and to serve in

:16:40.:16:51.

Ed Miliband's Shadow Cabinet. Conference, we have learned from our

:16:52.:16:56.

past and mistakes. We are tough enough to make the difficult

:16:57.:17:01.

decisions and with Ed Miliband's leadership by the strength of our

:17:02.:17:06.

common endeavour, we can make a change that Britain needs.

:17:07.:17:15.

Conference, this is what our first Labour Bumminget will do -- Budget

:17:16.:17:20.

will do, business rates cut, tax avoidance tackled, the deficit down

:17:21.:17:25.

fairly, infrastructure decisions made not delayed, the minimum wage

:17:26.:17:29.

raised, energy bills frozen, jobs guaranteed for young people, tax

:17:30.:17:34.

cuts for millions, not for millionaires, bank bonuses taxed,

:17:35.:17:39.

the bedroom tax scrapped, are NHS saved, that's what Labour's first

:17:40.:17:43.

Budget will do. Fixing the economy for everyone, a plan for the many,

:17:44.:17:48.

not the few, people are relying on us to deliver this. Conference, we

:17:49.:18:04.

will not let them down. Thank you. APPLAUSE El balls, the Shadow

:18:05.:18:18.

Chancellor takes the applause as he comes to the end of his speech. A

:18:19.:18:25.

rousing end. Rather more rousing than the middle or the beginning.

:18:26.:18:28.

There weren't too many policy changes to our attention. He

:18:29.:18:34.

apologised for not getting bank regulation right, but he's done that

:18:35.:18:39.

before. He apologised for not having tougher rules on immigration and

:18:40.:18:45.

he's done that before. He said he will scrap the tax rate for married

:18:46.:18:49.

couples and the pre-announcement was that he'll keep the 1% increase on

:18:50.:18:54.

child benefit for an extra year. We'll talk about that with Rachel

:18:55.:18:59.

Reeves in one moment. He indicated, though, that the Davies Report on

:19:00.:19:03.

airport capacity, which is about expanding in the south-east of

:19:04.:19:08.

England in particular, it sounded to me they will accept the report and

:19:09.:19:15.

that Ed Miliband will not try to expand Heathrow Airport. At least,

:19:16.:19:19.

that's what it sounded like. He interestingly had nothing to say

:19:20.:19:24.

about the devolution of income tax to Scotland. That is one of the

:19:25.:19:28.

great promises made to the Scottish people during the referendum

:19:29.:19:32.

campaign. Nick Robinson was in the hall and listening and he joins me

:19:33.:19:39.

now. A lopping speech, but nothing new? It was interesting how he's

:19:40.:19:44.

targeting different audiences. The message to voters via the media, we

:19:45.:19:48.

got that yesterday. I'm tough on spending. As well as that child

:19:49.:19:53.

benefit, curving of benefit increases that we read about, as

:19:54.:19:56.

well as the cut in ministerial pay, we got the general statement that he

:19:57.:20:01.

will not put anything in the manifesto that will require no new

:20:02.:20:04.

spending commitment or extra borrowing. As we have been

:20:05.:20:08.

stressing, his existing rules for borrowing are much more lax than the

:20:09.:20:12.

current coalition, so he's got a lot of extra borrowing and spending, but

:20:13.:20:16.

he said there would be no new spending. The message to the party

:20:17.:20:21.

was, look at all the things we can change, raise the minimum wage and

:20:22.:20:25.

jobs guaranteed for the Jung and so on. That is -- young and so on. It's

:20:26.:20:29.

clearly the makings of the plan. I've no doubt by the end of this,

:20:30.:20:35.

we'll be handed the plan. I was most interested by this targeting of

:20:36.:20:38.

business. They've got a real problem, Labour, with business.

:20:39.:20:40.

There are few things they are trying. First, to say the Tories

:20:41.:20:45.

will get you out of the EU, we won't. The thing you mentioned about

:20:46.:20:50.

airports, very important, Ed Miliband

:20:51.:20:52.

airports, very important, Ed Secretary and was opposed to

:20:53.:20:56.

expansion. The speech in code, but carefully briefed to the CBI, we are

:20:57.:21:00.

not against it, we are still going to have tests about the environment

:21:01.:21:04.

and noise, but do not think we are going to ignore expansion. It has to

:21:05.:21:11.

be done. And if so, we'll do it. Very wealthy viewers, he said the

:21:12.:21:15.

way that Labour's mansion tax would work and it's people in houses worth

:21:16.:21:21.

more than ?2 million, they would vary the rate, so the person,le

:21:22.:21:25.

billionaire who can afford a ?20 billion and there are some of those

:21:26.:21:29.

in central London, would pay at a higher rate from those people just

:21:30.:21:34.

above the limit, who may actually be in the jarring an, asset rich and

:21:35.:21:40.

income poor. Crudely, a widow who inher receipts a house from someone

:21:41.:21:44.

and the house is up, but there isn't much ready cash to spend. There are

:21:45.:21:48.

little nuggets, but frankly, on the eve of the general election it

:21:49.:21:51.

didn't feel like we got much that we didn't already know. Now, the dog

:21:52.:21:56.

that didn't bark, no mention about devolving income tax to Scotland. I

:21:57.:22:00.

think you and I both understand that's because Mr Balls is not that

:22:01.:22:05.

keen on this. He's not happy with the way Gordon Brown just made this

:22:06.:22:09.

announcement. We understand that he wasn't even consulted. And that he

:22:10.:22:13.

does not want all income tax to be devolved to Scotland? Definitely

:22:14.:22:18.

not. There's no doubt at all that as Shadow Chancellor he fought

:22:19.:22:20.

proposals that were drawn up not just a few weeks ago, but last year

:22:21.:22:25.

in the Scottish Labour Party, to devolve more taxes to the Scottish

:22:26.:22:32.

Parliament. A draft report emerged, written by Joanne Lamont and when

:22:33.:22:37.

the final report emerged it would be massively watered down. Why? Because

:22:38.:22:42.

Ed Balls had intervened. His argument is, if I'm going to be a

:22:43.:22:47.

Labour Chancellor I want controls of economic leaders and if you devolve

:22:48.:22:51.

all of income tax you are devolving yet another thing that holds the

:22:52.:22:56.

United Kingdom together. What he would call shared risk. They are the

:22:57.:22:59.

things we do together. He didn't like it being done last week in the

:23:00.:23:03.

heat of the referendum campaign and I think he'll continue to fight it.

:23:04.:23:10.

Thank you. We are joined now by the Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary,

:23:11.:23:15.

Rachel Reeves. Can you enlighten us on what Labour plans to do on income

:23:16.:23:19.

tax for Scotland? All these things need to be worked through, but the

:23:20.:23:22.

people of Scotland, they voted to remain part of the United Kingdom,

:23:23.:23:27.

to pool and share risk and that. We do know that. All these details need

:23:28.:23:34.

to be worked out. You can't tell us. This freezing of child benefit at 1%

:23:35.:23:40.

for up to two years in the first year, you say that will save ?400

:23:41.:23:45.

million? Over the course of the next Parliament. 200 million of that is

:23:46.:23:50.

in plans, because the first year involves only 1%, so the net saving

:23:51.:23:53.

that you have announced can't be more than 200 million? It's around

:23:54.:23:58.

300 million during the course of this Parliament. It's the saving in

:23:59.:24:04.

the year one... But it's factored into the next year's plans. So only

:24:05.:24:10.

one extra year. It's around 300 million. You also assumed a higher

:24:11.:24:16.

rate of inflation that is now impossible, so on the Treasury's

:24:17.:24:21.

calculations you've only saved 120 billion. The Bank of England

:24:22.:24:25.

forecasts at inflation on what we use to make the forecast and that is

:24:26.:24:29.

having inflation going up to around 2%. First of all, it is penalised

:24:30.:24:39.

anyway? 400 million is a big contribution towards the deficit

:24:40.:24:44.

reduction and getting the debt down. It's 75 billion. Child benefit is

:24:45.:24:48.

not the only thing. The tax on properties worth more than ?2

:24:49.:24:52.

million, repeating the bank bonus tax and increasing the top rate of

:24:53.:24:57.

tax up to 50 pence and the winter fuel allowance not going to the

:24:58.:25:01.

richest pensioners. It's important if you add it all up to. What is it?

:25:02.:25:08.

Several billion. The key point and way to get the deficit down is to

:25:09.:25:12.

have an economic recovery that leaves no-one behind. Our

:25:13.:25:15.

announcement on the national minimum wage is really important for deficit

:25:16.:25:20.

reduction, because in the last 12 months we have spent ?270 million on

:25:21.:25:25.

tax credits and benefit payments because the minimum wage hasn't kept

:25:26.:25:33.

up with inflation. Increasing that is important component as well,

:25:34.:25:35.

because if people aren't paid a wage to live on they have to draw on

:25:36.:25:42.

benefits to make ends meet. If they're not getting the extra

:25:43.:25:45.

benefits, if the benefits are withdrawn from them as the wage goes

:25:46.:25:49.

up, they don't get the whole benefit of the minimum wage. They are

:25:50.:25:56.

marginalised. For every pound that you get that lift you above the

:25:57.:26:00.

minimum wage saves taxpayers 49 pence in the pound. I'm not the

:26:01.:26:05.

people who are independent of it. They are not getting all of the

:26:06.:26:09.

money, but if you have a pay rise then it would be around ?3,000

:26:10.:26:13.

better off a year compared to the minimum wage where it is today. That

:26:14.:26:17.

is a massive difference. You say you're going to balance the current

:26:18.:26:23.

budget, or runcy surplus even and pay down the national debt? As soon

:26:24.:26:29.

as possible. Then you'll borrow more for investment? No, what Ed said in

:26:30.:26:34.

the speech and this is important, there will be no spending commitment

:26:35.:26:38.

in the manifesto that aren't paid for, so there will be no extra

:26:39.:26:43.

borrowing in our manifesto. Everything we set up, whether

:26:44.:26:46.

capital spending or current, will be paid for. You are still going to

:26:47.:26:53.

borrow? No, what we are saying. In the manifesto, there will be no

:26:54.:26:57.

proposals for further borrowing whether for capital or current. You

:26:58.:27:02.

are actually going to run a surplus on the current and the capital

:27:03.:27:05.

account? What we are saying is that as soon as possible, in the next

:27:06.:27:12.

Parliament, we want to run a surplus overall and national debt falling.

:27:13.:27:17.

He doesn't say that. He said he could get the current budget and pay

:27:18.:27:22.

down the fashle debt. He didn't say that he was going to have an overall

:27:23.:27:27.

budget surplus. What he says in the speech there will be no further

:27:28.:27:31.

spending in the manifesto for current or capital expeed tour,

:27:32.:27:33.

because we can't make promises we can't keep. That is what the Liberal

:27:34.:27:37.

Democrats did going into the 2010 general election. You conditioned

:27:38.:27:41.

kid people there will be loads of extra money. I need to clarify this,

:27:42.:27:48.

because it's important. If you are telling me now that you don't intend

:27:49.:27:53.

to borrow for investment and you are going to run a current spending

:27:54.:27:58.

surplus, you are planning to run an overall budget surplus? We are

:27:59.:28:01.

planning to get the national debt down, which means you have to be

:28:02.:28:05.

running a surplus to be able to that. If you are national debt

:28:06.:28:08.

falling you have to have a surplus overall. On current and capital

:28:09.:28:12.

accounts or both? To get debt falling you have to have a surplus

:28:13.:28:18.

on overall spending, so... It was only a couple of months ago he was

:28:19.:28:21.

saying it was all right to borrow to invest. ! Listen to what he said

:28:22.:28:26.

today, no commitments in the manifesto for further borrowing.

:28:27.:28:30.

Everything in manifesto will be paid for, not by further borrowing. That

:28:31.:28:37.

is really important. It's significant OK, thank you for

:28:38.:28:42.

clarifying that. That's is for today. I'll be back tonight after

:28:43.:28:47.

Newsnight on BBC Two. There is more tomorrow at midday, with live

:28:48.:28:52.

coverage of the big speech from Ed Miliband from 2.00 onwards. Hope you

:28:53.:28:55.

can join me then. Goodbye. The guns fell silent on

:28:56.:29:09.

November 11th 1918, but the shadow stretched long into

:29:10.:29:13.

the 20th century. Historian David Reynolds

:29:14.:29:18.

examines its devastating impact.

:29:19.:29:22.

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