24/09/2014 Daily Politics


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It's the final day of the Labour Party Conference here in


Manchester, where people are mulling over the parts of Ed Miliband's


speech he DIDN'T deliver, and contemplating the likelihood that


Afternoon, folks, and welcome to the Daily Politics.


More than 60 minutes, without a script, but he forgot to


Or immigration. Or welfare.


Yes, Ed Miliband's on the ropes over what he didn't say


I'm here at Westminster, where we expect Parliament to be


MPs will discuss whether or not British forces should take part


in American-led military action against Islamic State extremists.


David Cameron's expected to receive a formal request for help from the


And we ask all the difficult questions.


Is the Labour Conference all about socialism or socialising?


Do you get wined and dined? I haven't so far, but if you are


offering! All that in the next 60 minutes


of the very finest public service First this morning, let's get


the mood here in Manchester. There's been a bit of an exodus from


the conference with Ed Miliband's speech out of the way, but we've got


two journalists who are staying to the bitter end - Laura Pitel of the


Times and James Lyons of the Mirror. Welcome to you both. Can you


remember a fallout from a leader's speech like the one we have had this


morning? I thought you were going to ask me if I could member anything!


Everyone is a bit hung over. Speak for yourself! Miliband raised


expectations in recent years, people were not sure what he would deliver


and then he pull something out of a hat, but this time we were


disappointed, no one is going to remember anything at all. It is


always a high wire act to remember an 80 minute speech. He got away


with it twice, indeed previously he set the political weather in time to


come. You often fall of a high wire. I was there for Iain Duncan Smith's


quiet man speech. This was not that. It was worse. It was not. That is a


pretty low bar. That may be a fair point, but look, there is no doubt


it will cause him problems that he has left it out, and I don't


understand why he felt the need to do a speech for memory again, we


know he can do it very powerfully. -- from memory. Perhaps this was


time for him to stand up, Prime Minister in waiting, and do it that


way. But he missed out the issues that matter. That's the problem.


It's not that he missed out issues that come 10th or 11th or 12th in


the polls, he missed out the issues that come first, second and third.


He missed issues where he is under fire, so he has left an open goal


for himself to be attacked. It feels like a major blunder. But I think


you will be grateful this morning that there is an international


crisis unfolding in Iraq and Syria because it has kept him off the


front page and the news agendas. He will just be glad they can duck and


hope that no one has noticed. Is that a consolation prize that you


end up getting kept off the front page? He has had good headlines


around health ahead of the speech. Keen to talk about the issues people


care about. Health at the moment is third, sometimes second in the


opinion polls. When people asked what is important to them. This


conference was about getting labour in the top two issues as we go into


the election, they see that as their trump card. Unfortunate that


something leaked out a bit early. I asked a Labour insider before the


speech, are we getting a rabbit? Ray said that there's been tucked and it


is poking out of the hat a bit. A bit unfortunate but they have got


the key message out there on the key message out there on


health. 20,000 extra nurses, which Labour candidates can go and sell on


the doorstep. These kind of promises from politicians... ? You have to


make the case. The ?2.5 billion he is raising he is already spending on


additional resources, whereas the Labour attack on the health service


now is that there is a black hole in financing. Doesn't that ?2.5 billion


have to fill the black hole before you can hire more nurses? Certainly


some of it will have to, and we will be talking about more reform and the


way the health service works to free up money, the sort of thing that


Andy Burnham is talking about today. He has just had a standing


ovation in the hall. He has. A very strong speech. Arguably the speech


of the conference this morning from Harry Leslie Smith, a 91-year-old


activist, who had them weeping in the aisles. The issue is not Labour,


they are ahead in the polls and may have been ahead in the polls for a


long time, it may have narrowed a bit but they are still ahead. The


issue has been Mr Miliband, his ratings are way behind his parties,


just as Mr Cameron's ratings are way ahead of his party. It feels like a


missed opportunity. We heard from Labour, it was unfortunate that it


came after Scotland when everyone is tired and there are other issues at


the top of the news, but if you have problems with your leadership and


you are accused of not being prime ministerial enough, a big speech is


the opportunity to set against that. I don't know what he thinks on big


issues like foreign policy, poor example. He could have set out his


stall one way on the other -- or the other, but we are none the wiser.


So, it's the afternoon after the afternoon before.


Ed Miliband's speech, the bits in it, and bits not in it,


have become the defining story of this conference.


Let's hear what the Labour leader had to say to


Louise Minchin on Breakfast this morning about failing to mention


Did you forget that paragraph? The way I prepare these speeches is I


write a speech and I don't exactly try and memorise it, I use it as a


basis for what I might say. Some of it got left out. Sometimes I add


bits. But I was very clear about our plans for the NHS that we wouldn't


be borrowing a penny more to pay for it. I was clear about that


innovation to the deficit. The deficit paragraph is printed, did


you forget that paragraph? Yeah, I didn't do one part of the speech and


I added other bits. You know, there is a choice, you could stand up and


read out a preprepared speech... I find that actually doing it a


different way, to speak from the top of your head, speak directly to


people, is a better way for me to do these speeches. It is one of the


perils of doing it. How high on your list of priorities is the deficit if


you forgot it? Incredibly high. Ed Balls set out a clear plan for how


we are going to get the deficit down and how we are going to get the


national debt falling, how we are going to have the current budget


surplus and no proposals in our manifesto for additional borrowing.


That is why I said in relation to our plans to transform the NHS that


we would raise the money from the wealthiest in our society, clamping


down on tax avoidance get the change we need not from borrowing. You have


called the next eight months a job interview for Prime Minister. Would


you expect a future Prime Minister to remember what you have just


called really important, the deficit? Yes, and I did, I talked


about how we would not borrow more for the NHS. But look, people have


to make their own judgements about this. I chose to give my speech as I


have done for the last three years in this particular way. You can have


politicians just reading out a speech... I think we have to change


the way politics works, I think people want people to just come


along and tell them what they think and that is what I did yesterday. If


you did it again, would you mention the deficit? I am sure I would do it


differently, even if I did it again today. I added bits that were not in


the original text. That is the way I tend to do these speeches.


And I'm joined now by the Shadow Leader of the House


Welcome to the Daily Politics. The top two issues concerning the


British people in the polls normally? The polls I have seen show


that immigration and the economy are at the top, and the NHS rising


extremely quickly. You are quite right, the NHS has been rising in


third, but the polls ICS macroeconomy and immigration. -- IC


is the economy. Why did he fail to mention them? He delivered the


speech that he did, 67 minutes without notes. He left out three


lines about the deficit, but you know... He left out more than that.


He left out the issues that matter to the British people. Yvette Cooper


is making a detailed speech about immigration and the Home Office


amongst other things, and the issues there. But he is the man who would


be Prime Minister. Ed Balls made a half-hour speech the day before,


setting out the fact that Labour is absolutely determined to balance the


books over the lifetime of the parliament, and get the deficit


falling. The fact that Ed didn't mention the deficit in his speech


yesterday does not change our determination to deliver, and we


will do a lot better than a government that actually said it


would balance the books by next year and is going to have a ?75 billion


hole in the plans. All the more reason that if you win, you will


inherit that. Absolutely, and Ed Balls was how league perfectly clear


about that. We will come onto that. The people have a right to know what


Mr Miliband would have said. We have put it up on the autocue. You want


me to read it? In Ed's voice? No, your voice will be fine, it's the


words that matter. "Friends, there won't be money to


spend after the next election. Britain will be spending ?75 billion


on the interest on our debt alone. That's more than


the entire budget for our schools. So, as Ed Balls announced yesterday,


Labour's plan is based Eliminating the deficit as soon


as possible in the next parliament. borrowing. We will get the deficit


down - immigration benefits our country but those who come here have


a responsibility to learn English and earn their way, and employers


have a responsibility not to exploit You have stopped reading now. I can


stop reading now! Maybe I am doing a job interview for your job, Andrew!


I thought you did that very well! These words are so important. It


still baffles people that he couldn't remember them. He said on


breakfast television he was the top of his head. He wasn't, he had


memorised this speech. This is the style Ed likes to perform his


speeches in. It is the way he has always done it. He has missed out


hits before, I think in one of his speeches he missed out an entire bit


on the environment, which is a particular passion for him. But that


is not the first or second issue in the country. Andrew, because that


happen, it does not mean that Labour's policy, intent or intention


to deal with this has changed. On the budget deficit, is it your


intention to balance the current spending budget or the whole of the


budget in the next Parliament? What Ed has said is that we will balance


current spending and we will get the deficit falling over the lifetime of


the Parliament. But you could still run a deficit on investing, spending


to invest, is that right? We have a government now that is saying it is


going to invest huge amounts of money... I am not asking about the


current government, I am asking about your government. You have to


ask Ed Balls, since I am the shadow leader of the house. The deficit is


a key issue. Are you going to balance the whole of the budget by


the end of the next Parliament or just the current spending bit of the


budget? Hi we have said we will balance current spending and get the


deficit falling -- we have said we will Alan Scarman spending and get


the deficit falling by the end of the Parliament. If the government


will agree, we will check all the party manifestoes in the run-up to


the election to see if they are credible. Why don't the government


let the OBR do that? Unless your current spending surplus is bigger


than your capital spending deficit, you can't draw down the deficit, can


you? That's just plain arithmetic. Of course, but one of the things


about what we have said is that we will get the overall deficit falling


by the end of the Parliament and there will be tough fiscal rules. So


the overall deficit will fall? That is why Ed Balls set out in some


details on difficult choices in his speech on spending. That is why we


have a 0-based review. They don't mean anything. They do, actually...


Hang on, you might be cynical... Listen, you might be cynical about


0-based reviews, but the whole of Whitehall and how you run government


is about making choices. Our choices will be fairer. We will not give tax


cuts to millionaires and the bedroom tax to other people. There will be


fairer choices under a Labour government. You began this interview


by saying that your policy was to balance current spending. You have


now just told me that your policy is to cut the overall deficit. Which is


it? The deficit is going to be falling


by the end of the next Parliament, that is what Ed balls has pledged,


that is what Labour government will do, but we will do it fairer, we


will ensure that people have much more of a stake in society, we will


increase low wages, we will give young people more opportunities, we


will make sure that we are leading in the green industries for the


future, we will build 200,000 houses every year. It is going to be... I'm


sure it is going to be utopia... A utopia after ten years, not in the


first five. When you say you will cut the debt, will you actually


reduce the debt amount or will it simply be falling as a percentage of


GDP? Ed has said that it will befall them by the end of the Parliament,


he will set out, in his first budget, Leo rolls, clear fiscal


targets, that is a matter for the Chancellor to do. -- clear rules. I


may love for it to be a matter to me, it is not a matter for the


shadow leader of the house. White simple question, when you say you


will cut the national debt, will it fall in absolute terms? -- simple


question: Will it be falling as a percentage of GDP? Which means it


could still be writing in real terms. Check out the manifesto when


we write it and produce it. Do you know yet? Do you know? Nip into


Parliament when Chancellor Ed Balls is making his first budget speech,


and then all will be revealed. Seven months before the election, and you


cannot tell us what the policies are on the national debt. I have just


told you what the policies are, what the targets are. Real terms or


percentage of GDP? Which one? Let me ask you again? We will get current


spending balanced, and we will get the deficit falling by the end of


this parliament. I did not ask you that. That is what Ed Balls has


said. Thank you very much. Parliament is gearing up for a


recall. I'm joined by a couple of MPs who will be in Parliament for


the debate, Adam Holloway, he was in the armed forces himself, he has


recently returned from Iraq. And a member of the foreign affairs select


committee is joining me, he was born in Iraq. I'm assuming that if the


Iraqi Prime Minister does request written... -- Britain... What are


you going to do, Adam Holloway, you have said to me that without a


political settlement being made clear, you would not support air


strikes, even against Isis. I'm going to be declared -- I'm going to


be clear to David Cameron, but this is a problem for the people in these


countries and in the region. It is clearly a big problem for us but we


have seen in the disasters of Iraq and Afghanistan that it is not


work, the headlines, US air strikes. We should be more measured, we


should make it absolutely sure that the countries in the region, as the


Kurds have, realise it is their problem, we should enable them. We


should not be leading them, this is a path to disaster. You are yet to


be convinced. Absolutely. Is now the time? If we get the request from the


Iraqi Prime Minister that Britain should join America and other Arab


nations. It is worth remembering, we laid on the humanitarian effort, we


have led on the political settlement. Diplomacy taking place


in Baghdad, with Ambassador Fred Baker and before that Simon Collis.


We have upgraded the mission in Kurdistan. Now is the time, with the


Arab countries: Saudi Arabia, Jordan, UAE, Qatar, all of them


joining in the military effort. Adding quite rightly says, the


people on the ground, the host country, the Muslim Sunni Arab


tribes. The Iraqi army, they have all got to take the lead in this


operation. With the air support. They are not taking the lead,


America is taking the lead, "US-led strikes", that is the headlines. We


will be joining America, is that enough for you to say yes on Friday?


Yes, speak with the people of Mosul, any of those places... Today, on the


Turkish side, the Kurdish worth facing another massive humanitarian


problem. Because they are coming over the border. -- Kurdish worth


facing another massive humanitarian problem. The people they are


fighting, Iraqi army, Kurdish army, they are taking the fight to Isil,


not us. What we are doing is supplying air support, if we are


asked to. Is it dangerous to delay any further? The former defence


minister, Gerrit out, has said that it is an embarrassment that Britain


is not already standing alongside the US in air strikes, if we wait


for the political settlement to be clarified in the way we want it to


be. I'm not talking about a political settlement but politics


should come first. We have had emergency air strikes to prevent


Kurdistan from being overrun, that had to happen, they prevented mass


convoy is getting into the city. This is a bombing campaign, we have


got to organised. All of those Sunni Muslims that are opposed to the


government in Baghdad, they have got to get rid of Isis themselves. -- we


have got to organise. That will take a long time, some commentators say


it is too late, they say that it is too late to convince them, the Sunni


tribes have turned a blind eye to Isis because in their mind, they are


better than the Shia government in Baghdad. They did that in 2007, they


purged, but now they have decided to come back in. Other tribes are


joining in. It is going to take a long time. Barack Obama said it will


take a long time, so did David Cameron, but the important thing, as


Adam Rose verse two, the Sunni tribes, if they are going to join


in, if they are going to do the fighting, they have got to have a


political skin in the game. They have got to believe that they have


got to have at the end of it a sunny National Guard. The Sunni community,


playing host in Syria and Iraq, they have got to feel, after this


period, when they purge Isil, which will happen, that they have a


political settlement where they get to choose who leads them locally and


who governs them and taxes them. -- National Guard. Would you support


targets in Syria? -- Sony -- Sunni National Guard. Obviously, the


headline political objective is very clear here, but the operation level,


the tactical level, we have not yet worked it out, if you are a Muslim


sitting in Iraq or Syria, what this is, it is America coming back in and


bombing. This is not the right emphasis, it is the wrong way to do


it. Do you agree with that? Do you support the idea of air strikes in


Syria, because otherwise it is not a coordinated strategy. We have got to


keep options open. Already we have seen air strikes. It is already


happening with the US and the Middle East and forces. UK air strikes in


Syria? Keep the options open, speak with the free Syrian army, taking


the fight to Bashar al-Assad and Isil, they need the support to be


able to do what they do, which is produced a unified government which


looks after all of the minority-owned stop my message for


the people around Bashar al-Assad, think about getting rid of him,


think about having somebody else replace him. That is the only way


that we will get to a resolution in Syria. Thank you very much. On


Friday we will be hearing a lot more from these two MPs and others, when


Parliament is recalled, which we presume is what is going to happen.


That announcement may this afternoon.


Lots of speeches, stale sandwiches and warm white wine


but what's the Labour Party Conference really about?


Eleanor Garnier's been looking at what gets done here.


There is no mud but there is plenty of queues, it is a little bit like


Glastonbury, for political nerds. You can even get your groove on.


There is Harriet Harman, at a fringe event in 2013. You can even pick up


a souvenir! The Labour Party conference used to be a real


festival of the mock receive. Observers say that these days,


things are a little different. The Labour Party conference has changed


beyond recognition. Over the last 30 years. It used to be a great, mighty


chamber, which the leadership had to obey. There used to be blazing rows


in front of the television cameras. The stakes were very high. Policies


were decided. There are, in front of our eyes. Now, the control is with


the leadership, and the national executive committee. Previously a


mighty body. They tend to bend to the rules of the leader, and anyway,


it has less power. APPLAUSE Tony Blair brought in big changes to


the Labour Party conference in 1997. That is when the national


policy forum was introduced, to filter ideas and come up with policy


pledges. Until then, that had all been the role of the party governing


body, the national executive committee. Delegates at conference


today still raise and debate urgent issues and vote on them, but the


agenda is largely agreed before. Today, any sound of trouble is


quickly dealt with, remember Walter, the lifelong Labour Party member,


manhandled out of the conference in 2005, for heckling Jack Straw over


the Iraq war. Labour later apologised. Then back to the 1980s,


under Neil Kinnock. The conference could get pretty boisterous.


Ken Livingstone, former Londoner, served on the national executive


committee in the 1980s and 1990s, he is now back on it again. Do you


still look forward to going to conference? It is a series of


stage-managed events, platforms for leading party members to put forward


their views and so on... Years ago, I would look forward to it all year,


this was where party policy would be decided and the direction of the


movement. But that has gone. Is there any point to conference? It is


better than nothing, you can get hold of Ed Balls saying we should be


building more council houses, you will argue about the number, things


like that. It is the 1 chance where you can get to the party


leadership. Normally you have got to go through security in the House of


Commons! Nightmare. They may be disillusioned but they keep going, a


bit like the die-hards of music festivals, basically cannot stay


away. -- they simply cannot stay away.


Is it worth going to conference anymore? Apart from whether or not


they focus on anything that people care about, it is still worth


coming, it is a great opportunity for the Labour Party and all parties


to set out what they want to achieve, an opportunity for a coming


together of a tribe, as it were. There was a lot of problems with


conferences and all political parties, talking about re-engaging


with people, they need to start thinking about all of these events


here, as open and inclusive... Tribal rally, rather than a


conference which used to take decisions, which would affect party


policy? It is more like a US style political rally, convention, what it


was supposed to be is a Parliament, the membership is much lower, and


today, more of a case of a sign of the lobbyist side. A lot of


activists are probably more comfortable with that. What was


happened instead, the debate has shifted from the hall, and there is


a lack of democracy in the Labour Party. There is a thriving scene,


and on the key issues, housing, nuclear weapons, foreign policy,


education. All of them debated, but the problem I face with it, a lot of


people find this, a lot of people that the Labour Party was set up to


fight for our not able to come here. Too expensive? The only people...


Apart from the catering staff and the cleaners... If I was going to


change conference, I would make it more democratic and more


representative of the people that Labour says they fight for. It is


fine to have a thriving fringe, but debate and good speeches, a lot more


interesting than what is happening in the hall, but they do not


determine policy, they are not the collective view of the Labour Party.


That is what the conference used to be. A lot more complicated now, with


the national policy forum. We can do chapter and verse with the national


policy forum but everybody would turn off. We would like to keep the


audience, please do not go down that road! There is an element of


necessity to it, in the hall, having arguments, it would be fascinating


to watch, but it would make the Labour government less likely. We


need to find a way to increase levels of democratic representation,


without turning into a messy bun fight. There was a time when votes


mattered, and notions mattered, more so than the Tories. This was a


decision taking assembly of the Labour Party rank and file. New


Labour, the problem originally, it distrusted activists, had everything


it could to keep them to one side, turning them into an army of


leaflets deliverers. I think that fear was misplaced. Looking at some


of the very popular decisions, scrapping the 10p tax, invading


Iraq, public ownership of the railways... If they had listened to


activists more, a lot of those decisions would have been very


different. A lot of us have the suspicion that


the real reason these conferences still go on, and go on for such a


long time, four does, even though they don't ever take any decisions,


is everything we have around here. -- four days. It is true of the


Tories as well. The parties make a tonne of money out of people who


have come to lobby, to exhibit, to get their case across. It has become


a commercial exercise for Labour and the Conservatives rather than a


political gathering. 1 of the most interesting thing is arriving on


Saturday was that people were remarking how big the corporate


section is. It is seen as a sign of how big it is and how likely Labour


are to win the next election. 2011, they would have made money but not


to the same extent as this time. You are completely right, it is a huge


part. We need more transparency, not just here at the Labour Party but


all parties. The lobbying was a missed opportunity, but in terms of


the meetings that take place between lobbyists and perhaps a government


in waiting, we need more scrutiny of that. The less of that kind of


secret machinations, the better. We will all be back. Thank you very


much. And now Adam's final moodbox


from the Labour Conference. He tells me it's a classic


of its genre. I think we'll be the judge of that.


Here he is, with his balls. What motivates people to spend four


days at the Labour Party conference? Is it the socialism or the


socialising? Socialism, to be inspired about how we are going to


have a Labour government. You have not been to any drinks receptions,


parties? I haven't been to any parties, I have had a drink. Why do


you come to the Labour Party conference? I want socialism back in


the Labour Party, not a third way, not new Labour. You think it is


quite a daft question? Yeah. White? Not just have a good time?


Definitely not. Do you think anyone is here just to have a good time?


Maybe the beautiful people, but I am a local councillor and it is about


as against them. Socialising. Someone who is honest at last! What


is the best party you have been to? Lean macro I think it has got to be


the Co-op. What do we have on offer? Pies, quiches, pastrami. I love a


pork pie. You go to a lot of parties. How the


Labour Party 's rank? Compared to Annabel's? Much better. Why do you


come to conference, socialism or socialising? If you are true


revolutionary like Fidel Castro, shade of are, Hugo Chavez, you don't


have time to socialise because people are more important. -- Che


Guevara. You don't see Hugo Chavez on the dance floor much. Gangland


style? We did it yesterday. I had Ed Balls on the right and Yvette


Cooper... Do you want to recreate it now? Did Tony Blair like the


socialising bit? Tony Blair only ever talked about socialising by


saying he was in favour of social ism. Was he a party animal? He is a


man who knows how to have fun. Are you going to a party now, dressed


like that? We always dress like this. I focused on socialism to


socialise! Do you and Harriet go to parties? Once in a blue moon. Do you


get wind and dined? Not so far but if you are offering! I knock off in


about ten minutes. What is the best party tonight? The Daily Mirror are


having a party in Coronation Street. Have you got an invite? It is a bit


late, I'm not sure I am going to make it. When is your bedtime?


9:30pm every night. It seems like most people are here for the serious


stuff. Anyway I am off to a champagne reception.


He is always at a champagne reception. We had hoped to talk to


Yvette Cooper today, Labour Shadow Cabinet member, but her speech is


running late so it looks like we are not going to get her. However, we


are joined by two people who could be the future of the Labour Party.


Jessica Asato is standing in Norwich North.


And Sarah Sackman is standing in Finchley and Golders Green.


Welcome to both of you. Has this conference but a string -- placed to


bring in your step? Absolutely, it has been fantastic. We have


something to take to the electorate. I have people in my constituency,


volunteers, phoning voters to deliver the fantastic message we


heard yesterday on the NHS, house-building... Including the bits


he missed out? Well, what we heard from Ed was a really strong message


on the economy. We heard that there would be green growth, developing


jobs, tackling low paid apprenticeships and that will


resonate with my voters. Are you happy with the message? Very much


so. You are both going to be on message in this interview, will


there be any criticism? We go to the doorsteps every week and we talk


about people's concerns and their fears for the future. The NHS has


come up time and again as something people love dearly but they are very


afraid if it is being undermined and privatised by this government. The


message from Ed yesterday was fantastic, 20,000 extra nurses so


people have time... That is just an aspiration, it's not a policy.


Politicians on the left and the like are always promising as thousands of


this, thousands of that, people are not impressed by that any more. Hold


on a minute, it is not an aspiration, it is what we have


committed to do if we get into government. There is a lot of unrest


and people thinking politicians don't keep promises, so if anything


the bar is even higher. We know we can deliver it. It will be fully


costed, we will pay through it through a mansion tax on homes over


?2 million. No-one has been able to tell me at this conference how would


operate. Do you know? Ed was quite clear yesterday, the threshold will


be ?2 million, there will be protections for those who are asset


rich bass -- asset rich but cash poor. How would you value the


homes? That is the detail that is to come. You cannot have the tax


without the detail. The key thing is what the tax will pay for. It is not


for the sake of it, it is to support an NHS which is creaking. The other


thing about yesterday's speech is that Ed presented a 10-year plan, it


was not short-term pie in the sky aspirations, it was a plan to say,


we need to put our economy and NHS on a stable footing over ten years,


a long-term forward-thinking plan for Britain. The eyes of voters just


glaze over when you talk about 10-year plans. Most people know you


cannot have quick fixes in politics, so that turns them off. Having


someone who understands that they are long-term challenges, evil are


more generous than you say. They know you cannot create change in the


space of a year or two. -- people are more generous than you say. Is


Ed Miliband and asset given his dire personal ratings? He is an asset


because he is serious and he takes the serious problems facing this


country seriously. So why are his poll ratings so bad? People are


getting to know Ed and they like him more when he is at his boldest.


White macro -- the more they get to know him, the lower his poll ratings


go. We are ahead in the polls. The Labour Party is, absolutely. So why


are his ratings so bad? People like our ideas, and those are the ones we


heard Ed setting out yesterday. When people listen to what he has to say,


they see a decent, intelligent man who is at his best when he is at his


boldest. They like our ideas, that is why we are ahead in the polls.


How can you win win a large percentage of even Labour voters


don't think he is fit to be Prime Minister and you are 25% behind the


Tories on economic credibility? We are not close to the election yet


and many people are yet to make up their minds. You will know their


money people who are don't knows and we meet them all the time. There has


been a trivialisation of politics, I think, and people do look perhaps


sometimes at the celebrity and the veneer. As Ed, in the end, people


will judge the two Prime Minister real candidates at the next election


on the basis of what they will do for the country, not how they will


look. The public really get that. We shall see. Thank you. Ed Miliband


promised 20,000 nurses, 8000 GPs, 5000 home care workers, extra


midwives. Andy Burnham was on the show yesterday and he was warmly


received when he spoke to the conference earlier this morning.


Remember that solemn promise of no top-down reorganisation? It was a


barefaced lie. APPLAUSE


Days into office, the Tories set about dismantling your NHS. The plan


that dared not speak its name before the last election is now playing for


all to see. Run it down. Break it up. Sell it off. So today we serve


notice on Cameron and Clegg. Thursday, made a seventh, 2015. --


May seventh. Your day of reckoning on the NHS.


A reckoning for trashing the public's most prized asset without


their permission. And a reckoning for a ruinous reorganisation that


has dragged it down and left it on the brink. A winter crisis in A


Now a spring, summer and autumn prices too. Over 3 million people on


NHS waiting lists. Families waiting longer for cancer treatment to


start. The National Cancer target missed for the very first time. The


NHS can't take five more years of Cameron. Our 10-year plan for the


NHS is founded on people before profits. We will free the NHS from


Cameron's market. And, yes, repeal his toxic health and social care at


if it's the first thing that we do. APPLAUSE


I can announce a big change in the way the NHS supports carers so they


can keep going. No longer invisible but at the very centre of this new


service. So today we announce new support for carers, the right to a


break or respite care. The right to an annual health check.


Help with hospital car parking charges. Why do we do that? Because


they matter as much to me too. And we will go further. We will give


all families the right to care in their home if that is what they


want. A National health and care service. Truly there from cradle to


grave. Make no mistake. This coming election is a battle for the soul of


the NHS. The fight of our lives. Now we must all walk 300 miles for the


NHS to every doorstep in the land. And we walk out from here would


hope, with pride with passion, with a plan you can believe in. But in


the end of this is about more than us. This is about you. Your


children. Your grandchildren. Your great-grandchildren. It is about


whether there will be an NHS still there for them in their hour of


need, as it has been for you. Don't regret it when it's gone. Join the


fight for it now. So I make this appeal to you. Help the party that


founded the NHS. Give it a new beginning. Help us make it the


service we all want it to be. An NHS that puts people before profit. An


NHS that cares for the carers. An NHS there for your mum and dad. An


NHS with time to care. An NHS for all of you.


Passionate speech by Andy Burnham, on the last morning of the Labour


Party conference here in Manchester, he has the delegates to their feet,


with a strong defence of the NHS. It has been a continuing theme for the


Labour Party throughout conference, putting the NHS centre stage in the


upcoming election. It is clear from what Ed Miliband were saying


yesterday, what Andy Burnham has just said this morning. In the


Labour election pitch next May, the NHS will be at the centre of it.


Injecting passion into this conference on the final morning. It


is difficult to win an election if you are not trusted on the economy.


and Labour's polling on economic credibility is poor - trailing well


They are behind by as much as 25 points in recent polls.


But has this conference made any impact on that?


Jo Co's got some guests with her in Westminster:


You remember the phrase, "it is the economy, stupid", these guests will


be chewing over what Ed Miliband did and did not say. Alistair Feith, and


Simon Walker. First of all, is it forgiveable that a man as leader of


the Labour Party, who wants to be Prime Minister, to forget his


passage on the deficit? Not really, that is the simple answer. Growth


and economy and macroeconomic policy should be at the centre of what they


are doing, if they really want to generate more revenue, to finance


the NHS, and whatever else they want to do, they need an economy that is


growing well, not damaged by deficit, that is not out of control.


We need far more on macroeconomic policy and we got nothing. In city,


in business, if you were watching, that is a major issue. Business


reacted positively to some of the announcements that have come out


during the conference, if not actually in Ed Miliband's speech. We


have been very positive about the position on immigration, pledging to


remove caps on immigration. Did she announce that? It was in a fringe


meeting. I worry about the speech last night, Ed Miliband is not


anti-business, he's not pro-business, he does not seem to be


terribly interested in it at all! There is an awful lot of people in


the Labour Party who run businesses, who know how they work, know the


risks business owners take. There seems to be no recognition from the


leader that the money has got to come from somewhere, and it comes


from the private sector, it comes from people who start companies and


mortgage their homes to get them going. No recognition of that.


Instead, a pantomime villain: Hedge fund is, tobacco companies, fat cats


in mansions. -- hedge funds. He says, soak them, they will pave


everything. Does not work. says, soak them, they will pave


was very clear in his speech about austerity, that spending restraint


will continue, perhaps that is why it did not go down


will continue, perhaps that is why win back trust in terms of handling


the economy, balancing the books on current spending, not capital


spending. Are those the things you want to hear? That is the point, the


definition of balance budget means massive fiscal loosening, borrowing


far more money than the College and is borrowing. Loosening on... ? --


far more money than the coalition is borrowing.


Timmy, we need to see much more... We need to see what the Labour Party


means when it talks about austerity, how is it going to reduce the budget


deficit and raise revenues, it wants to pay for everything it wants to


do. -- to me. And they are not doing particularly well, in turn, that


should inform the Labour Party. The budget deficit is going to be even


bigger than we thought it would be. Target slipping, revenue is going to


be even bigger than we thought it would be. Target slipping, revenues


not coming in fast enough. There is a problem. The idea that the budget


deficit is not an issue, completely wrong. Talking about Ed Miliband


being "abusiness", they are pretty popular on some things. Means


testing Winter fuel payment, 75%, mansion tax, ?2 million properties,


72% in favour. 50p top rate of tax, 65%. You could argue that people


like what they see in the Labour policies. But the leader speech


coming up to an election has got to reach people outside of the comfort


zone, outside of the established... These are people from all parties,


Conservative voters supported that. Hitting those points is something


that you can do for populist reasons but if you raise taxes, if you say


you will impose new taxes on industries that have not had those


taxes before, you are threatening the whole attractiveness of the UK


as an investment destination. France has lost 95% of foreign investment


over the last ten years. We are a great place to invest at the moment


but he is threatening to put up taxes, capriciously, to fit a


particular industry. That shows how you are indifferent to the plight of


businesses. You will not be a welcoming destination for people


wanting to put their money in somewhere. What about the increase


in the minimum wage? Is that something that will put off


businesses, some businesses have welcomed it. It has gone down well


with the public. The key with increasing the minimum wage, all


parties are committed to increasing the minimum wage but the question


is, how far? Labour will go further than the current system. The big


danger, if you increase it faster than productivity growth, on the


margins you will lose some jobs, that is what quite a lot of people


are worried about. The increase they are talking about is not that great,


I don't think, but I suspect it is a bit too quick and will cost some


jobs. I would like to see the minimum wage get to that level. Low


pay commission has done a pretty good job of dealing with this over


the last ten years outside of the political agenda. We do not want


elections to become a wage auction, where somebody says it will be ?8,


and they have already said, ICU ?8 and raise you ?10! Where'd you go?


The low pay commission does a great job, let them doing it. Mansion tax,


no frontbencher so far has been able to explain in detail exactly how


about Mansion tax is going to work -- I see your ?8 and raise you ?10.


You would have to extend the tax on far more homes and other properties.


Looking at France, a country that has had a wealth tax for many years.


Their tax taxes every asset from about ?1 million a year. I suspect


that is the direction of travel, and that has been disastrous for the


French economy, it is one reason my semi-French entrepreneurs have come


to Britain. If you look at other countries that have tried to do


this, the mechanism people talk about when it comes to the Labour


Mansion tax is quite unfair. If you own a lot of homes were under ?10


million, you will not pay it. -- ?2 million. If you are a buy to let


landlord, you will not pay it, a pensioner that has retired may not


pay it. It does not make sense. Thank you very much, gentlemen.


Sadly, no Yvette Cooper, she is just getting onto her feet now, we have


run out of time for her. But the Shadow Justice Secretary had his


turn, he began by talking about his childhood memories in the 1980s, a


Muslim son of Pakistani immigrants, he described it as a hostile time.


But thanks to the Labour Party, he saw that change was possible. I am


stood here today as your Shadow Justice Secretary. APPLAUSE


The son of Pakistani immigrants from a council estate in South London,


because of labour, anything is possible! APPLAUSE


That same burning desire to fight for justice led me to be a human


rights lawyer. Taking on tough cases. Bullying, deaths in custody,


standing up for workers rights. Lives turned upside down, families


ripped apart, because of injustice. Defending people 's dignities, and


writing wrongs. And yes, transforming lives because of


labour's human rights act. -- putting right wrongs. And that is


why I am so appalled, I'm so appalled by Tory plans to abolish


the human rights act. And will away from the European convention for


human rights. -- walk away. They want to strip people of their rights


and make the justice system the preserve of the rich. Tories are


rubbing their hands at the prospect of governments free to ride


roughshod over the sick, the elderly, the disabled, the


vulnerable. Enlightened Tories who get this, like Dominic Grieve, they


have been sacked! Forgetting that without enlightened Tories, like


Winston Churchill, Europe would not have the human rights that we have


today! You know, I bet that if Churchill were a minister today,


David Cameron would have him sacked for his views on human rights.


You cannot trust the Tories to protect people 's rights. The first


battle we have, stopping the Tories in their tracks. Yes, get the


European Court working better, but I say to you, Mr Cameron, we will stop


you stripping the British people of their rights, we will block attempts


to abolish the human rights act. We will not stand by while we see you


block access to vulnerable people and we will not walk away from the


European Court of Human Rights. APPLAUSE


But we need to recognise the rights of people who have been neglected


for too long. Victims. Rotherham and Rochdale are rightly seared into the


public conscience, hundreds of girls, some as young as 12 years


old, abducted, raped, trafficked. And yet they were not believed or


they were ignored by the police and the authorities. This must never be


repeated. Labour will act, we will bring in


the country 's first ever victims law transforming the culture in the


police, and in the courts, giving a voice to the most vulnerable. And,


we will do everything that we can to stop people becoming victims in the


first place. Punishing criminals but reforming them as well.


We are now joined by the BBC's Ian Watson, through no full of its own,


this conference has suffered by being sandwiched between the


Scottish referendum and now, the likelihood of Parliament being


recalled to deal with the Syrian situation, on Friday. It has


diverted attention. It has been unfortunate, you can talk about the


sandwich, some of the meat in the sandwich, some people did not find


it palatable enough! After the existential threat to the UK that


some people felt they were dealing with last week, senior staff up


there, Ed Miliband, they were frankly quite exhausted, like the


rest of us. English votes, that question resurfaced, did they


respond quickly enough? That is why the atmosphere has been flat,


difficult to get traction when you are not setting agenda, you are


asked about Syria. The shadow of Iraq still hanging over Ed Miliband.


He would like to go down the United Nations Road, new has got to be


cautious, cannot sound robust. He is not leading the news agenda, he


following it. We expect that Parliament will be recalled after


the Prime Minister speaks with the leader of Iraq in New York. So far,


the speaker says there has been no request yet, but the speculation on


the Conservative benches is that it will be on Friday. Ahead of


conference. Again, to some extent, Labour will have to think about what


its response will be, whether they will support air strikes in Iraq, if


we get the request. Whether they will do this in Syria,


across-the-board, where the regime were requested no such thing. No


rest for any of us! That is it for today and indeed from the Labour


Party conference in Manchester, coming a world-class conference


venue, thanks to the people in Manchester for being so kind to us!


1pm news is on BBC1, we will be in London tomorrow with more of the


run-up to the recall. I shall be back with this week, on Thursday.


Is rocket science easier than you think?


Well, BBC iWonder is full of great questions


for curious people like us. They just keep on coming.


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