06/01/2016 Daily Politics


06/01/2016

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn are joined by Sir Alan Duncan and shadow energy secretary Lisa Nandy to discuss PMQs, the reshuffle in the Labour Party and the junior doctors' strike.


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Jeremy Corbyn's first Shadow Cabinet reshuffle finished

:00:36.:00:44.

His allies say it was 'small but significant' as he moved

:00:45.:00:48.

to eject dissenters and tighten his control over his frontbench.

:00:49.:00:53.

But with junior ministers now resigning in protest,

:00:54.:00:55.

has it underlined his authority - or reduced it?

:00:56.:01:01.

It's the first Prime Minister's Questions of 2016 -

:01:02.:01:03.

as the Labour leader and David Cameron square off,

:01:04.:01:05.

will the PM be asked about his admission that he can't

:01:06.:01:08.

get the cabinet to hold the line over the EU referendum?

:01:09.:01:14.

Hospital patients have been told to prepare for disruption next week

:01:15.:01:17.

when junior doctors strike after talks with the government

:01:18.:01:19.

And we'll speak to the former MP who thinks it's time

:01:20.:01:26.

the public what they really think. biting their tongues and tell

:01:27.:01:36.

back, it's time for them to get rude.

:01:37.:01:43.

All that in the next hour and with us for the whole

:01:44.:01:46.

of the programme today it's the Conservative MP and former

:01:47.:01:48.

And from Labour, a shadow minister who's survived unscathed

:01:49.:01:51.

through a reshuffle so slow we've had time to watch most

:01:52.:01:54.

And the new BBC adaptation of War and Peace.

:01:55.:02:03.

It's Lisa Nandy and she is still the shadow energy

:02:04.:02:07.

So after 36 hours the Shadow Cabinet reshuffle finally came to an end

:02:08.:02:22.

at a quarter to one this morning, and the impact in the real world

:02:23.:02:26.

I saw that it reduced Barack Obama to tears in the White House!

:02:27.:02:39.

But Jeremy Corbyn has strengthened his grip on his front

:02:40.:02:41.

bench and in key policy areas, even if not as much

:02:42.:02:44.

Shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary Benn will remain in his job but has

:02:45.:02:48.

agreed to agree with his leader, at least in public.

:02:49.:02:50.

Maria Eagle was shunted from defence secretary to culture secretary,

:02:51.:02:56.

replacing Michael Dugher who was sacked for "incompetence

:02:57.:02:59.

The new shadow defence secretary is Emily Thornberry,

:03:00.:03:03.

who unlike Maria Eagle opposes the renewal of Trident.

:03:04.:03:11.

At midnight Pat McFadden was relieved of his duties as shadow

:03:12.:03:15.

Europe minister, to be replaced by another Pat,

:03:16.:03:17.

Well, Mr McFadden was given the push for showing "disloyalty"

:03:18.:03:30.

to Mr Corbyn - let's have a listen to the shadow chancellor

:03:31.:03:33.

John McDonnell and then Mr McFadden, both speaking

:03:34.:03:35.

With Pat McFadden, unfortunately there was a series of times

:03:36.:03:45.

when I think, to be frank, the views he had expressed

:03:46.:03:49.

were undermining, challenging Jeremy's mandate, the overwhelming

:03:50.:03:51.

mandate he has got from Labour Party members.

:03:52.:03:53.

So Jeremy put a condition to Hillary that Pat McFadden had

:03:54.:03:55.

Pat I think is immensely talented and he will make a major

:03:56.:03:59.

I have been an MP for 11.5 years and I have never broken

:04:00.:04:04.

So I don't think there is a question of loyalty at all.

:04:05.:04:14.

But sometimes there is disagreement over issues, and Mr Corbyn has not

:04:15.:04:17.

been happy with things I have said, especially about terrorism

:04:18.:04:20.

Well, some Labour backbenchers have taken to Twitter

:04:21.:04:38.

Backbencher Ian Austen said... The new MP Wes streeting said...

:04:39.:05:01.

The former Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury Chris

:05:02.:05:06.

Jonathan Reynolds resigned following the reshuffle. In his resignation

:05:07.:05:24.

letter, he says... speak to one of those backbenchers,

:05:25.:05:48.

the MP Ian Austin who was a minister Isn't it a well established part of

:05:49.:06:01.

the British political scene that if you are a member of the shadow team

:06:02.:06:07.

Opposition, you should go? I don't Opposition, you should go? I don't

:06:08.:06:10.

think any of the people who have gone have criticised the leader at

:06:11.:06:14.

all. This has been a terrible process,

:06:15.:06:16.

all. This has been a terrible reshuffle is for many years and it

:06:17.:06:24.

is a complete shambles. A journalist told me that Hilary Benn, Pat

:06:25.:06:32.

McFadden was going to be sacked, not for criticising the leader but

:06:33.:06:34.

because they voted a different way on a free vote. I don't think it is

:06:35.:06:43.

about loyalty at all. Last night, actually, the explanation from the

:06:44.:06:48.

leaders' office was of incompetence and disloyalty. Nobody thinks that

:06:49.:06:57.

Pat McFadden is incompetent and neither that either of

:06:58.:06:59.

Pat McFadden is incompetent and been disloyal. Are you seriously

:07:00.:07:05.

saying that nothing they have said could be construed as critical of

:07:06.:07:07.

the Jeremy could be construed as critical of

:07:08.:07:10.

that your position this morning? Michael Duggan is calling for

:07:11.:07:17.

loyalty. When Jeremy Corbyn rang pats last night and told him he was

:07:18.:07:21.

loyalty. When Jeremy Corbyn rang sacked, it was because he criticised

:07:22.:07:26.

ISIS and said they were responsible alone for the terrorist attacks.

:07:27.:07:28.

That has alone for the terrorist attacks.

:07:29.:07:33.

international issues and terrorism ever since we were elected on the

:07:34.:07:36.

same day ten years ago. -- Pat. ever since we were elected on the

:07:37.:07:41.

is not about loyalty at all. Pat has worked

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is not about loyalty at all. Pat has Michael and Pat leaving the front

:07:49.:07:50.

benches is a big loss. Mr McFadden Michael and Pat leaving the front

:07:51.:07:59.

was like and respected MP, and has been sacked for stating that

:08:00.:08:02.

was like and respected MP, and has terrorists are to blame for

:08:03.:08:05.

terrorism. I don't know why Pat was sacked, I have not heard from Jeremy

:08:06.:08:10.

about it, and I have to agree with Pat and what he said in The Chamber

:08:11.:08:12.

about ISIS and the fact Pat and what he said in The Chamber

:08:13.:08:17.

is responsible for terrorist attacks but I know that Jamie

:08:18.:08:20.

is responsible for terrorist attacks him about that as well. I can only

:08:21.:08:22.

imagine they had a conversation last him about that as well. I can only

:08:23.:08:28.

Jeremy had confidence in him and for some reason he appears to have

:08:29.:08:32.

decided he does not. This happened in the last Parliament. Ed Miliband

:08:33.:08:37.

sacked by an habit for the same reason. The Shadow Chancellor said

:08:38.:08:42.

this morning that he had been sacked for disloyalty. I don't really know

:08:43.:08:49.

why that has happened. Why has he been disloyal? I don't know. Was

:08:50.:08:52.

about Michael? He was sacked for been disloyal? I don't know. Was

:08:53.:08:57.

incompetence, we are told. Are you aware of anything he has done that

:08:58.:09:00.

is incompetent? -- note. I work for aware of anything he has done that

:09:01.:09:04.

Michael in the last Parliament and he is effective and a great

:09:05.:09:09.

campaigner and a nice bloke. Are you sorry to see the back of both of

:09:10.:09:15.

them? I don't think we have seen the last of them because I think they

:09:16.:09:17.

will contribute from the backbenches. Michael in particular,

:09:18.:09:23.

it became increasingly apparent over the last few months that Michael was

:09:24.:09:27.

unhappy with the direction the party was taking and I think it is right

:09:28.:09:30.

that he should have a very strong boys about the future of the party

:09:31.:09:34.

but you obviously cannot do that from the Shadow Cabinet. Jonathan

:09:35.:09:42.

Reynolds, another junior shadow minister, he has gone this morning

:09:43.:09:48.

and resigned in protest, do you think there will be more

:09:49.:09:54.

resignations? Who knows? This has been a terrible process and has gone

:09:55.:09:57.

on for three days but before that we had weeks of speculation driven by

:09:58.:10:02.

the leaders' office, and the whole long list of ministers who were due

:10:03.:10:08.

to be chopped, and I think it has been a really terrible unedifying

:10:09.:10:14.

spectacle. Once we get the shambles out of the way, we need to focus on

:10:15.:10:19.

May and the local elections, we have big challenges. Jeremy was elected

:10:20.:10:24.

to win back support for disaffected unhappy former Labour supporters. We

:10:25.:10:28.

will be looking to win London and win it well, begin to win some

:10:29.:10:33.

ground back in Scotland and do well in the local elections. Why did it

:10:34.:10:41.

take 30 hours of meetings and almost three days to make the minor

:10:42.:10:47.

changes? I don't know. My experience of reshuffle is... You clearly have

:10:48.:10:51.

not been involved in the reshuffle! If you want to stay in your job,

:10:52.:10:56.

keep your head down and stop I have been in my office board but 24

:10:57.:11:00.

hours. One aggro did anybody call you? It was always meant to be a

:11:01.:11:08.

limited reshuffle and it turned out to be that. What about the rumour in

:11:09.:11:14.

Westminster that they dangled Defence in front of you? I have no

:11:15.:11:19.

idea where it came from. I was never offered it and I never had a

:11:20.:11:23.

conversation about it. Did the leaders' office ever have a

:11:24.:11:27.

discussion with you about your position? They must have spoken to

:11:28.:11:35.

somebody! Jeremy was talking to Hilary Benn. We know that but not to

:11:36.:11:42.

you? He talked to Maria and Emily. I had made it very clear from the day

:11:43.:11:46.

I got the job that I was thrilled to be doing it, I want to keep it. No

:11:47.:11:53.

alternative for you? No. What is Hilary Benn's modus operandi? He had

:11:54.:12:02.

long discussions with Hillary about future directions and policy. Maybe

:12:03.:12:08.

you did not hear Mr McDonald this morning may he said if he wants to

:12:09.:12:12.

do another speech like the one on Syria, he would have to do it from

:12:13.:12:15.

the backbenches. Is that your understanding? No, I heard Hilary

:12:16.:12:20.

Benn talking about it and he said there were no conditions put on his

:12:21.:12:25.

job, and I know him and to be honest, I cannot imagine he would

:12:26.:12:28.

have accepted a deal to stay in his job if he could not speak. From the

:12:29.:12:35.

front bench? Yes. What I think they would have agreed is that they will

:12:36.:12:38.

come to a collect view on major questions of the day which is right

:12:39.:12:44.

and important stop do you think it is wise to put Miss Thornbury in

:12:45.:12:53.

charge of Labour's defence policy on the very day that North Korea has

:12:54.:13:02.

exploded a hydrogen bomb? Is it wise? The party makes policy and the

:13:03.:13:07.

party position is that we will renew Trident. Is it your position? Is it

:13:08.:13:13.

right to review it. -- it is right to review it. It has rights to

:13:14.:13:17.

review how we spend the money and I am open to having a discussion. Does

:13:18.:13:23.

the position of North Korea to explode a hydrogen bomb impact on

:13:24.:13:26.

your future decision? You have to look at where the threat is

:13:27.:13:30.

currently and the major threat is from ISIS, we have just spoken about

:13:31.:13:39.

it. There was a big question about whether we spent that proportion of

:13:40.:13:42.

our defence budget on Trident which has no answer to that challenge. The

:13:43.:13:47.

military members have raised that question and I'm glad we have a

:13:48.:13:51.

party leader who can explore it. He has made up his mind. He has not

:13:52.:13:56.

imposed his view on the party. Collective decisions in the party.

:13:57.:14:02.

We need to leave it there. A busy morning and head. Thank you. --

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ahead. Hospital patients have been told

:14:06.:14:07.

to prepare for disruption next week as junior doctors in England prepare

:14:08.:14:11.

for a series of strikes after talks Three strikes over the next few

:14:12.:14:14.

months. The British Medical Association -

:14:15.:14:26.

or BMA - agreed to cancel three strikes last month to re-enter talks

:14:27.:14:30.

with the government over At this point the concilation

:14:31.:14:33.

service ACAS was brought in - but talks have broken down

:14:34.:14:43.

leading to strikes back on. Unless a deal is reached,

:14:44.:14:46.

there will be a 24 hour walk out next Tuesday, followed by a 48 hour

:14:47.:14:49.

strikes later in the month The strike action is likely to lead

:14:50.:14:52.

to thousands of non-emergency operations and hospital

:14:53.:14:56.

appointments being cancelled. The main sticking point

:14:57.:14:59.

is around weekend pay Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt has

:15:00.:15:04.

offered to increase basic salaries by 11% at the expense of overtime -

:15:05.:15:13.

he says this is needed to create But the BMA says the offer

:15:14.:15:17.

would mean doctors working more weekends for no extra money

:15:18.:15:24.

and junior doctors had been "left We can speak now to a junior doctor.

:15:25.:15:42.

But first of all, Alan Duncan, Junior doctors say this will mean

:15:43.:15:53.

more weekends for no extra money, leaving staff tired and demoralised.

:15:54.:15:55.

Is it time now for he is hunt to make further compromises? No, I

:15:56.:15:58.

don't think this is true, by the way. The BMA may be saying that but

:15:59.:16:01.

I'm not sure they are fairly representing doctors. I don't think

:16:02.:16:03.

they are fairly representing the interests of doctors. What happened

:16:04.:16:08.

at the meeting, 17 points they had been discussing, and 16 have been

:16:09.:16:12.

agreed. And so will there was the issue of weekends. What we said

:16:13.:16:15.

clearly in the election was that we wanted a seven-day NHS, so you are

:16:16.:16:21.

not at a disadvantage if you are ill... Doctors say it is not true

:16:22.:16:26.

that they do not work at the weekends, they do. But the structure

:16:27.:16:30.

is not the same at weekends. So often as a patient you are at a

:16:31.:16:34.

disadvantage at the weekend, which is what we are trying to overcome.

:16:35.:16:38.

So there is this final issue, about how we reject the payments. The

:16:39.:16:42.

Government is offering 11% increase in basic pay and trying to even

:16:43.:16:46.

things out so there is much more certainty and smoothness over

:16:47.:16:50.

weekends. That is a good objective. The BMA walked out within an hour,

:16:51.:16:54.

announcing almost in advance that they were going to strike. I am not

:16:55.:16:58.

convinced even though we have gone to a Cas that they are negotiating

:16:59.:17:02.

honestly and fairly in the interests of Junior doctors. Do you accept

:17:03.:17:06.

that the junior doctors will lose out on a certain amount of pay?

:17:07.:17:17.

There is that 11% increase but also a 31% average payment taken away for

:17:18.:17:22.

unsocial hours. When you take it in the round, many junior doctors will

:17:23.:17:25.

be worse off under the new arrangements, why would they elect

:17:26.:17:29.

for that? My understanding is that it is not as clear-cut as you say. I

:17:30.:17:34.

cannot sit here and say absolutely nobody will be worse off. I am not

:17:35.:17:38.

involved in the details of these discussions. But I firmly believe

:17:39.:17:41.

that the basic offer is designed to make sure that people are not worth

:17:42.:17:46.

off, but that the structure of pay is much more rational across the

:17:47.:17:51.

seven-day week. We can ask a junior surgeon now. Hopefully you just

:17:52.:17:55.

heard Alan Duncan saying that you will not be worse off under the new

:17:56.:17:59.

deal being offered by the government - is that the case? Firstly, in

:18:00.:18:04.

answer to what Mr Duncan just said, I feel very happy and confident that

:18:05.:18:08.

the BMA are fully representing and understanding the needs of junior

:18:09.:18:13.

doctors. Secondly, Mr Duncan was talking about 16 out of 17 points.

:18:14.:18:17.

Yesterday he was talking about 15 out of 16. They do not seem very

:18:18.:18:22.

clear on this. Let's talk specifically about this issue - are

:18:23.:18:29.

junior doctors going to be worse off in terms of pay as a result of

:18:30.:18:32.

changes which the Government says it wants to bring in? I will put this

:18:33.:18:36.

to you. If you take what they have been saying at pay -- at face value,

:18:37.:18:43.

the 11% pay rise, and the other changes, I would say this to you,

:18:44.:18:47.

you could double my pay, and I would say, take that money and buy me

:18:48.:18:52.

another doctor. Buy me another nurse, another physiotherapist,

:18:53.:18:55.

because I cannot increase seven-day services above what we already

:18:56.:19:01.

provide without the support of my colleagues, my paramedic colleagues

:19:02.:19:04.

and without more doctors. You cannot provide more with a finite number of

:19:05.:19:09.

doctors. We are already profoundly deplete and already working at

:19:10.:19:13.

maximum capacity. We cannot do more. Nevertheless we were happy to

:19:14.:19:16.

negotiate and try and work with the Government to do this. But still

:19:17.:19:20.

they are not listening to our absolute concerns over safety. I

:19:21.:19:24.

will come back to Alan Duncan on those points. But in terms of

:19:25.:19:28.

negotiation, the Government has moved, it would say, because it has

:19:29.:19:33.

offered this 11% rise on basic salary - where has the compromise

:19:34.:19:38.

being from your side? In terms of compromise, it comes down to

:19:39.:19:45.

absolute safety just in simple terms, you have a financial amount

:19:46.:19:48.

of jam, very thinly spread, over one piece of toast, and the Government

:19:49.:19:51.

are asking us to spread that same amount over two pieces of toast. We

:19:52.:19:55.

are trying to say, it does not matter which way you spread it, it

:19:56.:19:59.

will not work. I have looked at all the detail from the negotiation and

:20:00.:20:03.

all it comes down to is trying to mini plate us to do something which

:20:04.:20:06.

ultimately we are trying to say is unsafe. We want to help, we want to

:20:07.:20:11.

increase seven-day services. We would love to provide those services

:20:12.:20:16.

for our patients. But without the appropriate resort is an support, it

:20:17.:20:19.

will not be safe. It needs to be safe.

:20:20.:20:24.

will not be safe. It needs to be Duncan, it is not just about the

:20:25.:20:26.

deal for the junior doctors, it is that there is not the funding to

:20:27.:20:28.

resource these services, there are that there is not the funding to

:20:29.:20:32.

not even the numbers of doctors, never mount how much you are paying

:20:33.:20:37.

them? That is somebody on the front line, she knows. With respect, that

:20:38.:20:40.

is slightly different line of argument than the one you were

:20:41.:20:43.

putting earlier about the negotiations. I totally accept that

:20:44.:20:48.

the demand for health care is massive compared with any budget one

:20:49.:20:52.

could give in order to provide the service one wants to. That is why

:20:53.:20:56.

big choices have to be made about resources and

:20:57.:20:58.

big choices have to be made about you allocate them. You do

:20:59.:21:03.

big choices have to be made about they are not enough resources being

:21:04.:21:05.

spent in order to make their jobs easier and safer for patients? Every

:21:06.:21:10.

politician over the last 50 years will say, there is never enough

:21:11.:21:16.

money for the NHS. There are always demands on health which outstripped

:21:17.:21:20.

the ability of any government to pay for it. But we think that having

:21:21.:21:25.

this increase, in what we want to put into the NHS, we are trying to

:21:26.:21:28.

rationalise it over weekends. All put into the NHS, we are trying to

:21:29.:21:31.

would say is, please get round the table, not walk out after an hour.

:21:32.:21:37.

Can I just say Liz and because we have run out of time, are you

:21:38.:21:41.

prepared to negotiate further on this? Only if our concerns about

:21:42.:21:46.

absolute safety are less to. There is a huge disconnect with the

:21:47.:21:49.

reality of what is going on on the front line.

:21:50.:21:58.

More developments on Labour. Hilary Benn's team up in arms over claims

:21:59.:22:05.

that he has agreed to a six point feel not to criticise Mr Corbyn. It

:22:06.:22:09.

is a lie, says one of Mr Ben's supporters. Whereas the Jeremy

:22:10.:22:15.

Corbyn team are telling us that Mr McFadden was not sacked for opposing

:22:16.:22:18.

terrorism. That is one, he was sacked for disloyalty on several

:22:19.:22:22.

accounts to the new leadership. Now it's the New Year

:22:23.:22:24.

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The Year on our website. It's coming up to midday here -

:24:44.:24:47.

just take a look at Big Ben - Yes, the first

:24:48.:24:52.

Prime Minister's Questions And that's not all -

:24:53.:24:58.

Laura Kuenssberg is here, and she's been joined by the Labour

:24:59.:25:06.

MP and shadow foreign affairs Laura bring us up to speed

:25:07.:25:09.

with what's happening This is a moving story? Absolutely,

:25:10.:25:20.

claims of lies on all sides this morning. 48 hours of blunt spoons,

:25:21.:25:24.

rather than sharp knives, really. There is huge upset at the way this

:25:25.:25:28.

has been handled, do not underestimate that. Massive upset

:25:29.:25:32.

among the shadow cabinet and Shadow ministers who have decided to stay

:25:33.:25:36.

on this and especially over the way Pat McFadden's departure was

:25:37.:25:39.

handled. A lot of people think he has been unfairly treated. That is

:25:40.:25:45.

denied of course by Jeremy Corbyn's team. The way this has unfolded

:25:46.:25:50.

between last night and today, it has led already to the resignation of

:25:51.:25:57.

the Shadow Rail Minister Jonathan Reynolds, and it has also led others

:25:58.:26:01.

to be considering walking out of the door, and one of them is Stephen

:26:02.:26:05.

Doughty. I have just written to Jeremy Corbyn to resign from the

:26:06.:26:09.

front bench. I agreed to serve on Jeremy's front bench for a number of

:26:10.:26:14.

reasons. I had well-publicised differences with him on foreign

:26:15.:26:17.

policy and defence and security. But I recognised the mandate he had been

:26:18.:26:21.

given by the party, and I also have areas where I wholeheartedly agreed

:26:22.:26:27.

with him. Why have you resigned, question make on many issues,

:26:28.:26:31.

including climate change another's. But fundamentally I agree with

:26:32.:26:34.

everything Pat McFadden said, about not being seen to develop a

:26:35.:26:39.

narrative that somehow the West is was possible. I had to look at my

:26:40.:26:43.

own conscience in this situation, and when an individual like that has

:26:44.:26:47.

been singled out for a sacking for words which I completely agree with,

:26:48.:26:50.

I think it is the honourable thing for me to do to tender my

:26:51.:26:54.

resignation. But Jeremy Corbyn's people say this to McFadden was not

:26:55.:26:57.

fired for his remarks about terrorism, he was fired for

:26:58.:27:02.

disloyalty to the leadership. Well, it is simply not true. It is really

:27:03.:27:07.

sad actually the number of lies and unfortunate statements which are

:27:08.:27:10.

coming out from the leader's office about this situation. I was with Pat

:27:11.:27:14.

just after he was informed, and it was very clear what were the reasons

:27:15.:27:19.

for his sacking. He is a team member, are not extremely principled

:27:20.:27:24.

individual, who has always been clear about his own views, but he

:27:25.:27:28.

has always loyally served the party. When an individual like that and my

:27:29.:27:31.

own colleague is singled out for views which I also hold myself, I

:27:32.:27:35.

think it is only honourable for myself also to leave the front

:27:36.:27:39.

bench. You saying that we should not believe what we're being told by Mr

:27:40.:27:43.

Corbyn's team? It is up to you what you think. I think that things which

:27:44.:27:48.

are being briefed out this morning are simply not true. Undoubtedly

:27:49.:27:52.

they will do it about other individuals, about me. One reason I

:27:53.:27:56.

agreed to serve under Jeremy was actually his comments about the new

:27:57.:28:01.

politics, about being open and transparent and straight talking.

:28:02.:28:04.

And that seems to be the case for the first few weeks and months. I

:28:05.:28:08.

was perfectly content with that even on areas where I disagreed with him.

:28:09.:28:12.

His decision to give a free vote on Syria was absolutely right. But

:28:13.:28:16.

unfortunately there is a tendency of some of those around him and within

:28:17.:28:20.

his team to be conducting some pretty unpleasant operations against

:28:21.:28:23.

certain people. And there are others as well. In addition to Pat McFadden

:28:24.:28:32.

and Mr Dugher? It is extremely regrettable is, some of the stuff I

:28:33.:28:36.

am aware of. When it comes down to issues of national security and

:28:37.:28:40.

defence and terrorism, I have got very, very firm views on these

:28:41.:28:44.

things, and many colleagues do as well. We cannot be seen to be

:28:45.:28:50.

equivocating overdose. When an individual like Pat is singled out

:28:51.:28:53.

for his views on those very issues, then it is a matter of conscience

:28:54.:28:57.

for me. Given that I would have said exactly the same things, I cannot

:28:58.:29:01.

continue on the front bench in that situation. What do you say to that?

:29:02.:29:08.

I am sorry to see you go but I am excited about the fact that you

:29:09.:29:11.

might come and do some more stuff on climate change. But I guess I would

:29:12.:29:15.

also say as well that if I thought that Pat had been sacked because of

:29:16.:29:20.

his views on Isil and the West and terrorist attacks, then I would be

:29:21.:29:24.

agreeing with Steve. But that is what he thinks. Hang on, Alan. I

:29:25.:29:30.

completely agree with his view on that. But I would say, so does

:29:31.:29:35.

Jeremy Corbyn. How do you know that? Because I have spoken to him about

:29:36.:29:41.

it. Are you saying that McFadden's views and Jeremy Corbyn's views on

:29:42.:29:46.

terrorism are as one? No, but... Of course they are not. That was the

:29:47.:29:53.

whole point of Jeremy Corbyn putting together a broad best shadow cabinet

:29:54.:29:57.

and front bench, which he still has. Hilary Benn and Jeremy Corbyn have

:29:58.:30:01.

got differences of opinion over things like Syria. They have been

:30:02.:30:04.

very clear about that and they are keen to continue to work together to

:30:05.:30:07.

reach the right answer. But at the end of the day there is not a single

:30:08.:30:13.

Labour MP that I know of who thinks that the West

:30:14.:30:16.

Labour MP that I know of who thinks terrorist attacks but we

:30:17.:30:20.

Labour MP that I know of who thinks You have broken the story that there

:30:21.:30:23.

is another shadow minister going, Stephen Doughty - do we expect more

:30:24.:30:27.

today? I do. Maybe not very many, maybe not huge figures, very well

:30:28.:30:32.

known to the public, but I think there will be at least two, maybe

:30:33.:30:36.

more, who follow what Stephen Doughty has decided to do the course

:30:37.:30:41.

of today. There will always be disagreement in Jeremy Corbyn's

:30:42.:30:44.

Labour Party. He has the right to reshuffle his team, that is

:30:45.:30:48.

absolutely important to remind. But after a very messy reshuffle, this

:30:49.:30:53.

is a extraordinary. We have got different people publicly in the

:30:54.:30:56.

same political party accusing each other of lying. Over very

:30:57.:31:00.

fundamental things. I think there is a fundamental issue here. For me,

:31:01.:31:02.

issues of national a fundamental issue here. For me,

:31:03.:31:06.

defence though beyond party politics and internal machinations. And

:31:07.:31:11.

personal point-scoring and settling, which has

:31:12.:31:15.

personal point-scoring and settling, For me that is a very serious issue.

:31:16.:31:18.

personal point-scoring and settling, that these are issues which go

:31:19.:31:22.

beyond internal politics, then we will be in a very difficult

:31:23.:31:23.

situation. You are will be in a very difficult

:31:24.:31:30.

Nandy? Because I agree with Steve completely that this goes beyond

:31:31.:31:33.

party politics. We have to go over to Prime Minister's Questions now.

:31:34.:31:42.

Condemning terrorist attacks will not be a part of holding office? I

:31:43.:31:52.

would say to my honourable friend that condemning terrorist attacks is

:31:53.:31:55.

an essential component of aspiring to high office in this country and

:31:56.:31:59.

that should the the case whether you are a shadow minister or Minister of

:32:00.:32:04.

the Crown, and it is worth recalling what it is. Terrorists are entirely

:32:05.:32:12.

responsible for their own actions, nobody forces anyone to kill

:32:13.:32:13.

innocent people in Paris, blow nobody forces anyone to kill

:32:14.:32:18.

the underground, behead innocent workers in Syria, he was absolutely

:32:19.:32:22.

right to say that! Frankly, it speaks volumes that he cannot sit in

:32:23.:32:25.

the Shadow Cabinet with the Leader of the Opposition. Thank

:32:26.:32:31.

the Shadow Cabinet with the Leader Speaker. I would like to

:32:32.:32:36.

the Shadow Cabinet with the Leader firefighters, mountain rescue

:32:37.:32:39.

services, the police, armed services, engineers and workers, the

:32:40.:32:42.

Environment Agency, and local government workers, and all the

:32:43.:32:47.

volunteers, for all the work they did in

:32:48.:32:47.

volunteers, for all the work they people on the floods that affected

:32:48.:32:53.

this country. In January 20 14th following the devastating floods

:32:54.:32:56.

this country. In January 20 14th that time, the Prime Minister said

:32:57.:33:00.

and I quote, there are always lessons to be learnt and I will make

:33:01.:33:05.

sure they are learned. -- 2014. Were they learned? Let me join the Leader

:33:06.:33:12.

of the Opposition in thanking the emergency services, the police, the

:33:13.:33:15.

Fire Services, the search and rescue teams who went around the country to

:33:16.:33:19.

Fire Services, the search and rescue areas that were flooded, the

:33:20.:33:24.

military, and as he says, what we saw was communities coming together

:33:25.:33:26.

and volunteers carrying out extraordinary work. Having seen my

:33:27.:33:31.

own constituency very badly flooded in 2007, having had floods while

:33:32.:33:38.

Prime Minister, a number of lessons have been learnt. The military came

:33:39.:33:45.

in far faster than before. The scheme was funded at 100%, more

:33:46.:33:49.

money was got to communities more quickly. A lot of lessons have been

:33:50.:33:53.

learnt. Are there more to learn? I am sure there are, there always are

:33:54.:33:57.

and that is why I will review everything. As we do that, we will

:33:58.:34:02.

make money available because we have a strong economy to build flood

:34:03.:34:13.

resilience in our country. In 2011, ?190 million defence of floods was

:34:14.:34:23.

cancelled, 1000 homes in Leeds was flooded in recent weeks, the

:34:24.:34:26.

government is still only committed to a scaled-down version of the

:34:27.:34:30.

project worth a fraction of its total cost when the Prime Minister

:34:31.:34:36.

claimed money was no object in flood relief. When he meets the Leeds MPs

:34:37.:34:43.

in the near future, will he guarantee the full scheme will go

:34:44.:34:46.

in the near future, will he ahead to protect leads from future

:34:47.:34:55.

flooding? -- Leeds. It is worth putting on record before we get on

:34:56.:35:00.

to flood defence that this was the wettest December for over 100 years,

:35:01.:35:03.

and actually, in Leeds and Yorkshire, it was the wettest

:35:04.:35:09.

December ever on record, and that is why rivers in Yorkshire, it

:35:10.:35:16.

including the Aire in Leeds was a metre higher than it has ever been

:35:17.:35:21.

in stock in terms of floods defence is, no floods defence schemes have

:35:22.:35:25.

been cancelled since 2010. The investment in flood defences was 1.5

:35:26.:35:30.

billion in the last Labour government, 1.7 billion in the

:35:31.:35:33.

government I lead is a Coalition Government, and will be over 2

:35:34.:35:37.

billion in this Parliament. It has gone up and up and up and it has

:35:38.:35:41.

gone up as we run an economy where we are able to invest in the things

:35:42.:35:46.

that our country needs. One more point. Let us not forget this... We

:35:47.:35:53.

inherited the Darling plan for our economy. A plan for 50% cut in

:35:54.:35:59.

capital spending and DEFRA was not a protected department. We protected

:36:00.:36:03.

that flood spending and increased it, something Labour would not have

:36:04.:36:11.

done. Of course rainfall was excessive, of course the river

:36:12.:36:16.

levels were high, but the Prime Minister has still not answered the

:36:17.:36:21.

question on the Leeds flood protection scheme. I will give him

:36:22.:36:27.

an opportunity too. In 2014, Cumbria applied for funding for new schemes

:36:28.:36:31.

in Keswick and Kendall and both were turned down, both areas were flooded

:36:32.:36:36.

again in the last few weeks. Does the Prime Minister believed that

:36:37.:36:39.

turning down those schemes was also a mistake? We are spending more on

:36:40.:36:44.

floods defence schemes is stacking up a whole series of schemes. Let me

:36:45.:36:53.

make this point. If he is going to spend ?10 billion on renationalising

:36:54.:36:56.

railways, where is he going to find the money for flood defences? The

:36:57.:37:03.

idea that this individual would be faster in responding to floods, when

:37:04.:37:08.

it takes in three days to carry out a reshuffle, is laughable! -- him.

:37:09.:37:16.

Since I walked into The Chamber this morning, the Shadow Foreign Minister

:37:17.:37:20.

has resigned, the Shadow Defence Minister has resigned, he could not

:37:21.:37:26.

run anything! It is very strange that when I have asked a question

:37:27.:37:31.

about Leeds floods defence, and Cumbria floods defence, the Prime

:37:32.:37:34.

Minister still seems unable to answer. Canny now tell us if there

:37:35.:37:39.

is going to be funding for those schemes? In October, Professor Colin

:37:40.:37:46.

Mela, he warned the government about funding cuts to flood defences in

:37:47.:37:54.

Yorkshire being formally discontinued in the future. Would

:37:55.:37:59.

that be a mistake or so? Is he going to reverse the cut in the defence to

:38:00.:38:05.

make sure that those cities and areas are protected in the next

:38:06.:38:08.

round of floods which will no doubt come? We have increased and continue

:38:09.:38:15.

to increase the spending of flood defences. We are spending more in

:38:16.:38:19.

this Parliament, and for the first time, it is a six-year spending is

:38:20.:38:24.

active which is ?2.3 billion extra on flood defences, money which would

:38:25.:38:29.

not be available if we trashed the economy in the way he proposes. Of

:38:30.:38:34.

course, after every incident of flooding, you go back and look at

:38:35.:38:38.

what you have is then, what you have built, what you are planning to

:38:39.:38:41.

spend, planning to build, and you see what more can be done, but the

:38:42.:38:45.

head of the Environment Agency was clear that he had the money

:38:46.:38:49.

necessary to take the action necessary, but we can only do that

:38:50.:38:54.

with a strong economy, an economy that is growing, where more people

:38:55.:38:58.

are in work, more people are paying taxes, we have got the strength to

:38:59.:39:02.

solve this problem of floods and we will do it in a proper way. The

:39:03.:39:08.

Prime Minister still has not answered on Leeds, on Cumbria, on

:39:09.:39:14.

the warning from Professor Mellor, and like him, last week, I met

:39:15.:39:19.

people in Yorkshire were affected by flooding and I met a young couple,

:39:20.:39:24.

Chris and Victoria, whose home had been flooded over Christmas. It was

:39:25.:39:37.

not very funny for them. This young couple lost many of their

:39:38.:39:44.

possessions. Photos, children, toys, schoolwork, and they have the foul

:39:45.:39:47.

stench of flood water in their homes as many families do in this country.

:39:48.:39:52.

They are asking all of us wholly legitimate questions. Why was it

:39:53.:39:59.

that the insignificant pump capacity of the barrier, alerted to in 2013

:40:00.:40:03.

by a government report, was not dealt with and those pumps were not

:40:04.:40:09.

upgraded, thus people were flooded in York and their possessions and

:40:10.:40:13.

homes damaged? Those people want answers from all of us and in

:40:14.:40:18.

particular from the Prime Minister. I have the greatest sympathy with

:40:19.:40:21.

anyone flooded and we have to do what it takes to get people and

:40:22.:40:26.

communities back on their feet and that is why we have put record sums

:40:27.:40:30.

in more quickly to help communities in Cumbria, in Lancashire, and now

:40:31.:40:34.

in Yorkshire, and we will continue to do that. On the question of the

:40:35.:40:40.

pumps, that was about to be tended for extra investment and that

:40:41.:40:43.

investment will now go ahead because the money is there. We are putting

:40:44.:40:49.

in the money, we are putting it in more quickly, the military got

:40:50.:40:51.

involved more quickly and to the couple who got flooded, we are also

:40:52.:40:55.

doing something that previous governments have talked about but

:40:56.:40:59.

never achieved and that is to have an insurance scheme so every

:41:00.:41:02.

household in our country can get insured. That is not being done

:41:03.:41:10.

before. Our lessons being learned? Yes. Are there more lessons? Yet.

:41:11.:41:14.

But we do not need a lecture from the honourable gentleman! -- yes.

:41:15.:41:23.

The reality is that flood defence scheme after flood defence scheme

:41:24.:41:26.

has been cancelled, postponed or at stop many more homes have been

:41:27.:41:32.

flooded, and too many lessons have been ignored. Why can't the Prime

:41:33.:41:37.

Minister support our call for a coordinated cross-party approach to

:41:38.:41:42.

flooding that looks at everything including Upland management in

:41:43.:41:48.

making people's homes more flood resilient, and more protection

:41:49.:41:54.

schemes properly funded? Does the Prime Minister agree with this? The

:41:55.:41:58.

Fire and Rescue Service who have done a great job over the last few

:41:59.:42:03.

weeks in all parts of this country, should now be given a statutory duty

:42:04.:42:09.

to deal with loads to help us through any crisis that might occur

:42:10.:42:15.

in the future? When he has worked out how to coordinate his own party,

:42:16.:42:20.

perhaps he can have a word with me. On the issue of a statutory duty,

:42:21.:42:24.

everybody knows what they have to do when let's take place, that is why

:42:25.:42:28.

there was a magnificent response from the emergency services, the

:42:29.:42:32.

Fire Services, the emergency rescue services, they have are backing to

:42:33.:42:38.

do the vital work, and we will go on investing in flood defences, we will

:42:39.:42:42.

increase the money on flood defences because we have a strong economy and

:42:43.:42:45.

strong country that can back the action needed. 2016 is the 400th

:42:46.:42:55.

anniversary of William Shakespeare's death. Does the Right Honourable

:42:56.:43:01.

friend agree that our country should unite to commemorate his work best

:43:02.:43:08.

at their special events at the RSC. The Shakespeare birthplace trust are

:43:09.:43:12.

renovating the sight of his home, and his school is opening the

:43:13.:43:19.

original classroom. Can I invite the House and the whole world to come

:43:20.:43:22.

and celebrate the greatest living writer? I apologise for almost

:43:23.:43:32.

interrupting his celebrity. The 400th anniversary of the death of

:43:33.:43:36.

Shakespeare. Everything he has given to our language and culture and to

:43:37.:43:39.

the world, it will be a fantastic moment for people to come and

:43:40.:43:44.

Great Britain and come and see Stratford, and all the other places

:43:45.:43:46.

that Stratford, and all the other places

:43:47.:43:49.

with Shakespeare. Shakespeare provides language for every moment.

:43:50.:43:53.

Consider what we are thinking about at the moment. There was a moment

:43:54.:43:59.

where it looked like this reshuffle would go into the 12th night! It was

:44:00.:44:03.

a revenge reshuffle so it was going to be as you like it! We can can

:44:04.:44:08.

conclude that it has turned into a comedy of errors, perhaps much ado

:44:09.:44:13.

about nothing! There will be those who worry that Love 's labours lost.

:44:14.:44:30.

Thank you. Thank you for the warm welcome. Mr Speaker, the health

:44:31.:44:44.

service is the role but junior doctors in Scotland are not banning

:44:45.:44:48.

to strike next week. Why does the Prime Minister and the Scottish

:44:49.:44:53.

Government has good relations with junior doctors and his government

:44:54.:44:59.

does not? And now to the Scottish play! It raises an important

:45:00.:45:03.

question and we have taken a different approach to the government

:45:04.:45:05.

in Scotland. We have increased spending on the NHS by more than the

:45:06.:45:11.

government in Scotland and that is the right approach but we are

:45:12.:45:14.

determined to deal with the issue of having a genuine seven-day NHS.

:45:15.:45:18.

Everybody knows, doctors know, patients know it, the BMA knows it,

:45:19.:45:25.

there is a problem with the NHS at the weekend, and one of the ways to

:45:26.:45:28.

correct that is to make sure we have new contracts, including with junior

:45:29.:45:33.

doctors, to make sure not that they work longer hours, and in fact under

:45:34.:45:38.

our plans, many will work less hours. Not to reduce doctors' pay.

:45:39.:45:44.

No one who works legal hours will see a cut in their pay. 75% of

:45:45.:45:50.

doctors will see a rise. This is a good deal for a good NHS and I'm

:45:51.:45:56.

sure in Scotland they will at it as well.

:45:57.:46:00.

The Scottish Government has been investing record levels in the NHS

:46:01.:46:05.

in Scotland and it also works very hard to have the best possible

:46:06.:46:09.

relations with the doctors and nurses and NHS staff. Would the

:46:10.:46:14.

English Health Secretary speak to his Scottish colleague to learn how

:46:15.:46:17.

to resolve the situation in England and stave off strike action, which

:46:18.:46:21.

no-one wants to see, least of all Julia doctors? There should always

:46:22.:46:27.

be good discussions between the Health Secretary in the United

:46:28.:46:30.

Kingdom government and health ministers in the devolved

:46:31.:46:33.

administrations. Obviously, one thing we think is important when we

:46:34.:46:36.

make a decision to increase funding in the NHS, as we have done, ?19

:46:37.:46:44.

billion more in this Parliament, that has consequences for Wales and

:46:45.:46:47.

Scotland and Northern Ireland under the bonnet formula. And of course I

:46:48.:46:50.

find it very depressing that the Welsh have decided under Labour to

:46:51.:46:55.

spend less than we are planning to spend, and Scotland has done the

:46:56.:47:04.

same thing. The local economy in my constituency, Bolton West, continues

:47:05.:47:13.

to strengthen, great businesses relocating and growing in

:47:14.:47:19.

Westhoughton. We are also seeing heritage trading frames investing ?1

:47:20.:47:23.

million in equipping a new factory in Lostock, another company winning

:47:24.:47:30.

new contracts and recruiting more staff in Norwich. Will the Prime

:47:31.:47:35.

Minister agree with me that the northern powerhouse is not just

:47:36.:47:38.

about our great northern cities, it is also about our Great North Run

:47:39.:47:43.

towns? My honourable friend is absolutely right. It is instructive

:47:44.:47:48.

that members opposite do not want to hear good news about businesses and

:47:49.:47:53.

investment which is happening in the economy. Sometimes it can sound as

:47:54.:47:56.

if the plan for a northern powerhouse is all about the cities.

:47:57.:48:03.

Our view is that by linking up the cities, you also helped the towns

:48:04.:48:08.

and the rural areas because you are rebalancing the economy and

:48:09.:48:09.

increasing opportunity in the north of our country. In 2014, in response

:48:10.:48:17.

to the flooding of the Thames Valley, the Prime Minister said that

:48:18.:48:20.

money would be no object. In the light of his cuts to the flood

:48:21.:48:25.

offences, his cuts to the fire and rescue service, his cuts to the

:48:26.:48:29.

Environment Agency, can he say the same to the people of Leeds, of

:48:30.:48:35.

Rochdale, York, of Whitby and of Teesside, or is it one rule for his

:48:36.:48:38.

constituents, and another for ours in the north? She is completely

:48:39.:48:43.

wrong about the funding, as I have explained in great detail. What we

:48:44.:48:49.

put in place under this government is not funding at 85% of what a

:48:50.:48:57.

council spends, but 100%. So what I said absolutely stands good. Thepm

:48:58.:49:06.

has always been a staunch supporter of the Welsh TV channel S4C, so

:49:07.:49:15.

could he use this opportunity to reinforce the future of the channel

:49:16.:49:18.

and the commitment to safeguard its funding? I am happy to do that. S4C

:49:19.:49:24.

is an important part of our broadcasting structure and it is

:49:25.:49:29.

very well liked in Wales. We will meet the spirit of our manifesto

:49:30.:49:32.

promise to make sure this continues to be a very strong channel. With

:49:33.:49:38.

homeownership down to its lowest level in a generation, down every

:49:39.:49:42.

year since he became Prime Minister, why did Tory MPs vote against

:49:43.:49:46.

Labour's amendments to the housing bill last night, which would have

:49:47.:49:50.

protected the publicly funded discount for new starter homes for

:49:51.:49:53.

future buyers? Isn't that better value for money for first-time

:49:54.:49:58.

buyers and for the taxpayer, you saw no? Well, the proposal. The homes is

:49:59.:50:06.

a Conservative Party proposal put into our manifesto, opposed

:50:07.:50:11.

throughout by the Labour Party. This is only happening because we have

:50:12.:50:14.

listed a majority and put a housing bill through this House of Commons.

:50:15.:50:18.

We are taking every step we can to help get more people on the housing

:50:19.:50:23.

ladder. In London we are seeing Help to Buy now funding 40% of the homes

:50:24.:50:27.

people want to buy, rather than 20%. We will see 200,000 starter homes

:50:28.:50:32.

built during this Parliament. Because we are managing the economy

:50:33.:50:36.

properly, interest rates are low and it is easier for people to get a

:50:37.:50:41.

mortgage. With our help to save skin, people can put aside money to

:50:42.:50:47.

help them with their deposit. We are on the side of the homeowner, and

:50:48.:50:50.

above all those people who want to get on the housing ladder.

:50:51.:51:01.

Mr Speaker, on Boxing Day, the village of crust and in my

:51:02.:51:06.

constituency suffered the worst floods in living memory. We had

:51:07.:51:11.

damage to schools, homes and businesses. Will my right honourable

:51:12.:51:15.

friend join with me in praising the efforts of everybody who pulled

:51:16.:51:19.

together to protect their community and will he ask is honourable friend

:51:20.:51:23.

the member for Penrith and The Border to review the decision by the

:51:24.:51:27.

Environment Agency to switch off the pumps in that particular place?

:51:28.:51:32.

First of all let me pay tribute to her constituents, who worked around

:51:33.:51:35.

the clock to help each other in what were appalling floods, with this

:51:36.:51:40.

incredibly high-level of rainfall. Let me join with her in thanking the

:51:41.:51:44.

emergency services again for all the work they did. After floods like

:51:45.:51:47.

this there are always questions about which pumps were used, which

:51:48.:51:51.

flood gates were opened, what decisions were made by the experts

:51:52.:51:56.

on the ground. And it is very important, having seen many

:51:57.:52:00.

communities flooded in my own constituency, to hold meetings in

:52:01.:52:03.

the community to go through those decisions and work out what lessons

:52:04.:52:06.

can be learned and whether the right decisions were made. I absolutely

:52:07.:52:11.

pledge that that should be done if we have announced ?40 million for

:52:12.:52:15.

the work across Lancashire and Cumbria for helping people out. And

:52:16.:52:19.

we will make sure that the flood alleviation money for households and

:52:20.:52:23.

businesses, the scheme is that we set up after 2013, that the money is

:52:24.:52:29.

paid out as it can be. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. In the light

:52:30.:52:35.

of last month's Paris climate agreement, in which all countries

:52:36.:52:39.

promised to keep global warming well below 2 degrees, does the Prime

:52:40.:52:42.

Minister agree that we must now urgently begin the process of

:52:43.:52:46.

strengthening the EU's 2030 greenhouse gas reduction target to

:52:47.:52:51.

50% below 1990 levels at the very least a position which he argued

:52:52.:52:54.

for, I am glad to say, at the European Council? First of all let

:52:55.:52:59.

me join her in once again recognising that Paris was a very

:53:00.:53:02.

big step forward. Previous agreements, like at Kyoto, did not

:53:03.:53:07.

include action by China or America. And now, you have got all the big

:53:08.:53:12.

emitters as part of the deal. We did argue that the EU should go further.

:53:13.:53:16.

We achieved I think a very aggressive package for the EU, but

:53:17.:53:21.

that was the best that we could do in the circumstances. I think the EU

:53:22.:53:24.

agreement helped to bring about the general agreement. Nobody should be

:53:25.:53:28.

in doubt that Britain is playing a very major role. Let me give you one

:53:29.:53:33.

statistic. I know there is a great interest in this house about solar

:53:34.:53:37.

panels. I asked the question the other day, what percentage of solar

:53:38.:53:40.

panels have been installed in Britain since this government took

:53:41.:53:45.

office in 2010, expect it might be 50 or 60%. The answer is 98%.

:53:46.:53:53.

Yesterday it was announced that the Foxhill housing zone in Bath would

:53:54.:53:58.

receive ?313,000 of government funding to help kick-start work to

:53:59.:54:01.

build thousands of new homes in the city. Would the Prime Minister agree

:54:02.:54:04.

with me that this funding will help to reverse the lack of new building

:54:05.:54:08.

under the party opposite and unable struggling families to get onto the

:54:09.:54:12.

property ladder? I am delighted to hear about that development. The

:54:13.:54:16.

fact is, we have built 700,000 houses since this government came to

:54:17.:54:21.

office but there is a lot more to be done. Sometimes it might involve

:54:22.:54:26.

specific planning permissions orders agreements between councils which

:54:27.:54:30.

need to be sorted out. But we should not forget that the developers and

:54:31.:54:33.

house builders will only go ahead with house-building if they believe

:54:34.:54:37.

it is a benign economic environment with a strong and growing economy

:54:38.:54:42.

and stable interest rates. That is the key to the success in housing.

:54:43.:54:49.

The Prime Minister promised to cut the number of government special

:54:50.:54:54.

advisers and the Chancellor wants to limit pay increases to public sector

:54:55.:54:59.

employees to 1% of. So how does he possibly square that with now having

:55:00.:55:04.

26 more special advisers than in 2010 and a 42% pay increase for the

:55:05.:55:08.

Chancellor's own personal image consultant? There are fewer special

:55:09.:55:13.

advisers under this government than there were under the last

:55:14.:55:23.

government. Will my right honourable friend agree with me that it is more

:55:24.:55:28.

than a matter of regret that the new Shadow Defence Secretary has seen

:55:29.:55:35.

fit to take a donation from the immoral, thieving and ambulance

:55:36.:55:40.

chasing lawyers leader a who, together with public interest

:55:41.:55:47.

lawyers, specialise in hounding out brave service personnel in Iraq with

:55:48.:55:52.

spurious claims? Is it time that we removed the latter from the

:55:53.:55:54.

pernicious clutches of the Human Rights Act and honoured our

:55:55.:55:58.

manifesto commitment for a British Bill of Rights? Taking his questions

:55:59.:56:05.

in turn - yes, we should honour our commitment for a Bill of Rights and

:56:06.:56:08.

I look forward to making progress on that. I think this organisation

:56:09.:56:14.

Leigh Day, does have some that. I think this organisation

:56:15.:56:19.

to answer. They were deeply involved in the inquiry where a

:56:20.:56:20.

to answer. They were deeply involved claims completely fell apart and

:56:21.:56:24.

there was it seems evidence which could have shown that those

:56:25.:56:26.

there was it seems evidence which were false. I do think that it is

:56:27.:56:28.

instructive that we have lost Shadow Secretary of State -2

:56:29.:56:34.

believed in strong defence, who believed in strong defence, who

:56:35.:56:35.

and instead we have got somebody believed in strong defence, who

:56:36.:56:41.

apparently who takes funds from Leigh Day. I think that leaves us

:56:42.:56:42.

with Leigh Day. I think that leaves us

:56:43.:56:46.

Speaker, frankly, it goes to a bigger truth, which is, one day this

:56:47.:56:51.

we shovel I suppose will be over, and we will be left with a

:56:52.:56:53.

collection of and we will be left with a

:56:54.:56:58.

doubt, who signed up to unilateral nuclear disarmament, who signed up

:56:59.:57:01.

to backing up taxes, debt and spending, and one of the left-wing

:57:02.:57:04.

programmes in living memory. This is a collective act they would have

:57:05.:57:10.

taken part in. We should not be asking if the Leader of the

:57:11.:57:12.

taken part in. We should not be Opposition would be happy about lead

:57:13.:57:15.

central. The question is, what on earth is the member for lead central

:57:16.:57:18.

and others doing in this Labour Party government? The Prime Minister

:57:19.:57:28.

may be aware that there is also a Shakespeare connection to Knowsley,

:57:29.:57:33.

where midsummer night dream for example was written, amongst other

:57:34.:57:37.

place. I wonder whether he will lend his support to the proposal for a

:57:38.:57:42.

Shakespeare of the north, which will complete the triangle of the Globe

:57:43.:57:47.

theatre, Stratford-upon-Avon, and Knowsley, as a celebration of the

:57:48.:57:52.

work of Shakespeare? I think this sounds like an excellent proposal.

:57:53.:57:56.

We should not try and constrain Shakespeare to Stratford. We should

:57:57.:57:59.

make sure this is a national, indeed international, celebration, so I

:58:00.:58:04.

will look carefully at the proposal he makes. In Derbyshire, the county

:58:05.:58:10.

council have announced plans to cut four care homes including Hillcrest

:58:11.:58:17.

in my constituency, as well as some sheltered housing. This is clearly

:58:18.:58:23.

an attack on the elderly and vulnerable in Derbyshire by an

:58:24.:58:26.

authority with a proven track record of wasting taxpayers' money. Will my

:58:27.:58:28.

right honourable friend look at this dismal situation to ensure all

:58:29.:58:33.

Derbyshire presidents have access to good levels of care? I am happy to

:58:34.:58:42.

look at that problem. Obviously, this is a Labour-controlled council

:58:43.:58:44.

taking these decisions. What I would urge them to do is to look at the

:58:45.:58:48.

proposals that we made in the spending review, at the fact that

:58:49.:58:53.

councils are now able to use a surcharge on council tax to fund

:58:54.:58:57.

additional social care, and to recognise that their job instead of

:58:58.:58:59.

playing politics should be serving local people. Last year, the IMF

:59:00.:59:08.

warned income inequalities is the most defining challenge of our time.

:59:09.:59:11.

It is getting worse and it slows economic growth. By last night,

:59:12.:59:17.

FTSE-100 chief executive is well have been paid more for five days

:59:18.:59:22.

work than the average UK worker will be paid in the whole of 2016,

:59:23.:59:26.

getting a pay rise of nearly 50% last year while the average worker

:59:27.:59:32.

had a pay rise of less than 2%. So, will the Prime Minister support the

:59:33.:59:36.

high pay centre's back and Asians for organisations to publish data on

:59:37.:59:41.

the ratio of top pay to average pay? -- recommendations fully I am a

:59:42.:59:47.

great supporter of these things. But since I have become Prime Minister,

:59:48.:59:50.

income inequality has actually fallen, whereas it went up under

:59:51.:59:54.

Labour. One of the biggest rings wasn't doing to help with income

:59:55.:59:58.

inequality is, for the first time ever, to bring in a national living

:59:59.:00:03.

waged. This is the year that we are going to see people paying no tax

:00:04.:00:08.

until they have earned ?11,000. This is the year we will see a national

:00:09.:00:13.

living waged at ?7 20. Those are big advances in helping the low paid in

:00:14.:00:18.

our country. I would like to pay tribute as well to the countless

:00:19.:00:22.

numbers of people and organisations who helped out during the recent

:00:23.:00:30.

floods. Yesterday, I spoke with the chairman of the new insurance scheme

:00:31.:00:34.

and I know that people who have been hammered by the floods will welcome

:00:35.:00:39.

the fact that their premiums will be quashed and that they will not meet

:00:40.:00:45.

eye-watering excesses. But he told me that it will not cover any houses

:00:46.:00:50.

built since 2009 and it will not cover businesses, either. Will the

:00:51.:00:54.

Prime Minister look again at the scheme to make sure that it is

:00:55.:00:57.

properly comprehensive? We are looking very carefully at this,

:00:58.:01:02.

particularly on the issue of businesses. We have had a number of

:01:03.:01:05.

anecdotal stories from small businesses saying it is going to be

:01:06.:01:09.

very difficult to get insurance. Meanwhile the insurance companies

:01:10.:01:12.

are telling us they will not turn down any small businessesso we need

:01:13.:01:16.

to get to the bottom of this before we get the final introduction of the

:01:17.:01:24.

scheme in April this year. It was good to welcome the Prime

:01:25.:01:28.

Minister and his Excellency the President of China, Chester airport

:01:29.:01:31.

in my constituency recently to talk about investment. But what is in the

:01:32.:01:36.

northinterest and the nation's interest is extra runway capacity in

:01:37.:01:40.

the south-east. Why does the Prime Minister continue to procrastinate?

:01:41.:01:46.

Can I thank him and everybody in Manchester who helped to welcome the

:01:47.:01:51.

Chinese president at the excellent lunch in Manchester and the very

:01:52.:01:55.

good visit to Manchester airport? In response to his question, I would

:01:56.:01:58.

say that the environmental audit committee of this house, and indeed

:01:59.:02:04.

the author of the original report, Howard Davies, have both said that

:02:05.:02:09.

the problems of quality to raise new questions which the Government has

:02:10.:02:12.

to answer. I am in favour of answering those questions and then

:02:13.:02:17.

making a decision. Two years ago I think tomorrow, the House lost a

:02:18.:02:22.

superb parliamentarian and much loved colleague in all parts of the

:02:23.:02:34.

house. The honourable gentleman's predecessor, Paul Goggins. We

:02:35.:02:36.

remember him with affection and respect and we think fondly of his

:02:37.:02:42.

widow and their three children, who are all wonderful human beings and

:02:43.:02:46.

we wish them well for the future. Thank you, Mr Speaker. My

:02:47.:02:49.

constituency was decimated by the recent floods. It was reported in

:02:50.:02:56.

the Bradford Telegraph And Argus earlier this week that the Bradford

:02:57.:02:59.

district would not receive any of the extra funding the Prime Minister

:03:00.:03:03.

announced for Yorkshire for flood defences. Will he take this

:03:04.:03:06.

opportunity to confirm that that is not the case, that whatever money is

:03:07.:03:10.

necessary to protect my constituency from future flooding will be spent?

:03:11.:03:14.

And if he is struggling to find the money, the all could use money from

:03:15.:03:18.

the overseas aid budget, because I am sure he believes that victims

:03:19.:03:22.

flooding in Shipley should not be disconnected against in terms of

:03:23.:03:25.

victims of flooding in other parts of the world? We will do what it

:03:26.:03:30.

takes to make sure that families and communities and businesses can get

:03:31.:03:35.

back on their feet. That's why we have invested record sums more

:03:36.:03:39.

quickly into the affected areas. We have learned the lessons of previous

:03:40.:03:43.

floods, where sometimes the schemes have been too bureaucratic and too

:03:44.:03:47.

much time has been taken. Whether it is building bridges, repairing

:03:48.:03:51.

roads, building flood defences, examining where the water went this

:03:52.:03:54.

time and what more can be done, we will make sure that work is carried

:03:55.:04:02.

out in Bradford, as everywhere else. Is the Prime Minister aware of the

:04:03.:04:05.

valuable work of the National Wildlife Crime Unit not just in

:04:06.:04:10.

enforcing the law but in promoting animal welfare and as part of the

:04:11.:04:14.

international effort against the trade in endangered species? Is he

:04:15.:04:17.

aware that the funding for it expires in a couple of months, and

:04:18.:04:22.

DEFRA and the Home Office have yet to make a decision to continue it?

:04:23.:04:26.

Can I ask him to prevail upon his right honourable friends to make

:04:27.:04:29.

sure that this extremely important and valuable work is continued? My

:04:30.:04:34.

understanding is that we HAVE kept the funding for this organisation.

:04:35.:04:38.

It does important work to mystically and overseas. I will look very

:04:39.:04:43.

carefully at what he suggests. I think there is still a decision to

:04:44.:04:50.

be made about the future. My right honourable friend knows that the

:04:51.:04:56.

legacy of thalidomide stills hangs over more than 500 people in our

:04:57.:04:59.

country today. In the last Parliament, Mr Speaker, the Prime

:05:00.:05:04.

Minister signalled very strong support to get a fair and just

:05:05.:05:09.

solution to their problems. Can I invite my right honourable friend in

:05:10.:05:12.

this Parliament to renew that pledge and to work with the all-party group

:05:13.:05:18.

to ensure a just outcome? I am happy to make that clear. In the last

:05:19.:05:21.

Parliament I met with some of my own constituents who have been affected

:05:22.:05:24.

by thalidomide and they had a number of things they wanted

:05:25.:05:27.

parliamentarians to do and a lot of people got behind their campaign. I

:05:28.:05:31.

am happy to continue to work with them in this Parliament. Order.

:05:32.:05:41.

Jeremy Corbyn to all lessons on the floods and whether the government

:05:42.:05:53.

was investing sufficient money. And whether it is doing enough in the

:05:54.:05:56.

future to stop it happening again. The Prime Minister pointed out that

:05:57.:06:01.

Mr Corbyn had been in Malta while some of the floods were going on and

:06:02.:06:06.

stop he did not point out that when his constituency was under water in

:06:07.:06:12.

2007 he was in Africa. There were a number of Shakespearean quotations

:06:13.:06:14.

from the Prime Minister about the Shadow Cabinet reshuffle. Love

:06:15.:06:20.

Labour's lost, as you like it, a comedy of errors was another one.

:06:21.:06:25.

The Prime Minister then went on to talk about less hours for doctors

:06:26.:06:32.

which showed he has not quite mastered Shakespeare's language! Why

:06:33.:06:42.

was the 190 million flood scheme cutbacks? This is a classic Andrew

:06:43.:06:47.

Neil question, expecting me to know everything! My understanding is that

:06:48.:06:54.

it was not cut back but the Environment Agency decided not to go

:06:55.:06:57.

ahead with it because it would cause flooding elsewhere. You have to be

:06:58.:07:01.

careful about making accusations. David Cameron, in saying that this

:07:02.:07:06.

is how floods spending has gone up and will go up, as clearly held the

:07:07.:07:10.

floor against original request was for a ?190

:07:11.:07:17.

million flood defence and it original request was for a ?190

:07:18.:07:21.

made to the government in 2010. It original request was for a ?190

:07:22.:07:24.

was not turned down by original request was for a ?190

:07:25.:07:31.

will now receive ?33 million which will not cover, actually, part

:07:32.:07:36.

will now receive ?33 million which the city which was flooded recently.

:07:37.:07:38.

The bit that was flooded get no extra defence. Look, this is an

:07:39.:07:45.

The bit that was flooded get no don't know the exact details of the

:07:46.:07:47.

decisions taken on don't know the exact details of the

:07:48.:07:53.

the Minister, but Liz truss gave the answer is in great detail in 90

:07:54.:07:57.

minutes and was very convincing in the way she did, as was David

:07:58.:07:59.

Cameron the Prime Minister. the way she did, as was David

:08:00.:08:04.

remember what she said? I was not there for all of it. It is the

:08:05.:08:09.

issue, looking at the there for all of it. It is the

:08:10.:08:16.

the e-mails and questions raised in the House today, people are

:08:17.:08:21.

unbelievably concerned. Mark said David Cameron failed to

:08:22.:08:24.

legitimate questions that Jeremy Corbyn asked on the government

:08:25.:08:30.

handling of flood defences and government priorities. David said, I

:08:31.:08:36.

find it rich for David Corbyn to stand up

:08:37.:08:41.

find it rich for David Corbyn to fortnight to show his face in York.

:08:42.:08:44.

find it rich for David Corbyn to Malcolm said, what a disgrace, all

:08:45.:08:46.

our politicians are out of touch with the country. And yet said,

:08:47.:08:50.

Jeremy Corbyn looks and with the country. And yet said,

:08:51.:08:57.

a bumbling old lefty. This from Andy... I have never seen anything

:08:58.:09:01.

as durable as David Cameron's performance today. Legitimate

:09:02.:09:06.

questions were derided by Jeremy Corbyn. The sycophantic Tories do

:09:07.:09:12.

nothing to raise the status of the House, physically on the issue of

:09:13.:09:17.

floods. Don said, what are the useless politicians going to do? To

:09:18.:09:27.

floods. Don said, what are the time they banned phones and tablets

:09:28.:09:31.

from The Chamber? They are constantly in use and very annoying.

:09:32.:09:35.

The Speaker let the men and now they all use them. Parliament should be

:09:36.:09:42.

about listening. Not playing around. People are reading speeches on iPad.

:09:43.:09:45.

They should People are reading speeches on iPad.

:09:46.:09:47.

the quill pen! The Prime Minister claimed that

:09:48.:10:00.

there were fewer special advisers and political appointments than the

:10:01.:10:10.

last government. Well, there were 74 special advisers in July 2009 under

:10:11.:10:15.

Mr Brown. It seemed a lot at the time but the run now 100 and three

:10:16.:10:20.

under this government, as of November 20 14. The figure may be

:10:21.:10:24.

higher. The Prime Minister was talking about the previous Coalition

:10:25.:10:30.

Government of which he also led, but they had more special advisers

:10:31.:10:34.

because the Lib Dems had their load as well. What happens, special

:10:35.:10:39.

advisers have a terrible reputation in the press is people who do

:10:40.:10:45.

ghastly deeds. People in the opposite of say they will cut

:10:46.:10:49.

numbers but then they get into power and find them very useful. It has

:10:50.:10:53.

happened before and it's happening now. We also understand that Kevin

:10:54.:11:05.

Jones has quit the Shadow Cabinet. I think it is quite likely that others

:11:06.:11:10.

in the shadow defence team who were being asked to serve under Emily

:11:11.:11:15.

Thornberry who opposes renewing new killer deterrence may follow him

:11:16.:11:23.

through the rest of the day -- nuclear. It is the official policy

:11:24.:11:28.

to back Trident but that is the opposite of what Jeremy Corbyn wants

:11:29.:11:33.

to do. The next seemed to unravel is that members of the defence team who

:11:34.:11:42.

will serve -- won't serve a -- under somebody who is taking the opposite

:11:43.:11:50.

view to them. The pro-Trident policy isn't going to last, is it? Let's be

:11:51.:11:54.

realistic. The leader of the Labour Party is against it. The new Shadow

:11:55.:12:00.

Defence Secretary is against it. The person hurt in to do the defence

:12:01.:12:04.

review with that Shadow Defence Secretary, Mr Livingstone, is

:12:05.:12:10.

against it. The NEC is appointed with people who are moving against

:12:11.:12:14.

it, and there will certainly be a vote at the Labour Party conference

:12:15.:12:19.

which could easily vote against it. That is the direction of trade,

:12:20.:12:24.

isn't it? Yes, that is the context of all of this and that is one of

:12:25.:12:27.

the reasons why there is this sort of race amongst Jeremy Corbyn

:12:28.:12:34.

supporters to try and take over as much of the party machinery as they

:12:35.:12:37.

possibly can before you get to that conference vote in September.

:12:38.:12:41.

Remember, though, one important thing in all of this, there are some

:12:42.:12:46.

big influential backers of Trident because of jobs and that includes a

:12:47.:12:49.

lot of unions and that is one of the reasons a health Jeremy Corbyn win

:12:50.:12:55.

this leadership race. There is disquiet about getting rid of it but

:12:56.:13:02.

it is an important achievement of the reshuffle which has been messy

:13:03.:13:07.

and has had some very dramatic and terrible consequences this morning

:13:08.:13:10.

in terms of broken trust and hurt feelings. He has moved to neutralise

:13:11.:13:17.

a very big row which was coming down the tracks very quickly, which was,

:13:18.:13:21.

how will Labour cope with the boat to come in the House of Commons over

:13:22.:13:29.

whether to renew Trident? He has moved to neutralise that with some

:13:30.:13:32.

success but he has not been able to move his very big target, the Shadow

:13:33.:13:37.

Foreign Secretary, Hilary Benn. I am glad you brought that up. We are

:13:38.:13:42.

being inundated with briefings from Hilary Benn's people, saying,

:13:43.:13:48.

nothing has changed army has not agreed to conditions commonly

:13:49.:13:52.

carries on as before. -- nothing has changed, he has not agreed... What

:13:53.:14:00.

did they talk about drawing that time, then? -- during. Jeremy Corbyn

:14:01.:14:10.

is very, very fond of discussion. Drawing the one-to-one meetings,

:14:11.:14:15.

there were not conversations about how his role which change, and yet

:14:16.:14:21.

we have this briefing now from those around Jeremy Corbyn that there is

:14:22.:14:25.

some kind of New World order in how things will operate. -- during the

:14:26.:14:29.

Shadow Chancellor also said there will be this situation where anybody

:14:30.:14:35.

on the front bench wants to say something that is not Jeremy

:14:36.:14:40.

Corbyn's position, hang on a minute, I am just going to shuffle up to the

:14:41.:14:43.

backbench and say what I really think. It is not a sustainable

:14:44.:14:49.

position. Hilary Benn says he will not do that. I don't want to add to

:14:50.:14:56.

the speculation on this because it has got out of hand but one thing

:14:57.:14:59.

that is missing from this discussion is the fact that it is quite a big

:15:00.:15:03.

change, not just for the Labour Party but for British politics. The

:15:04.:15:07.

biggest change we have seen in my political lifetime. What is the

:15:08.:15:12.

change? A change in leadership and change in the direction of the

:15:13.:15:16.

party, and at the same time, don't forget that Jeremy and many members

:15:17.:15:21.

of the Shadow Cabinet did not know each other very well before this

:15:22.:15:24.

started and one of the rings that has happened over the last few

:15:25.:15:28.

months is that we have been working through that and getting to know one

:15:29.:15:34.

another. -- things. It has been them reaching an agreement on how they

:15:35.:15:36.

work together going forward and it sounds like they have managed to do

:15:37.:15:40.

that. I am sure there are no conditions. Would he resign if it

:15:41.:15:45.

came to the next big confrontation on something like air strikes or

:15:46.:15:51.

Trident? Would you expect Hilary Benn to resign? In the end, he is a

:15:52.:15:55.

principled man and if they could not reach an agreement, keyword, but

:15:56.:16:00.

what they did yesterday was find a way to mutually work together in a

:16:01.:16:08.

respectful way. -- keyword. We do not know what the roles of this are.

:16:09.:16:17.

And, indeed, Mr Benn himself. You have two figures on the record

:16:18.:16:22.

saying two different things. The Shadow Chancellor John McDonald is

:16:23.:16:24.

saying there is a new modus operandi. Hilary Benn is a new set

:16:25.:16:30.

of conditions and ways of working, a bit like -- collective working.

:16:31.:16:37.

Hilary Benn is saying, I have not been muzzled. You cannot both be

:16:38.:16:43.

right. Most people around the country are seeing the headlines in

:16:44.:16:47.

newspapers and will not pay attention to the tiny details but

:16:48.:16:51.

for a political party to work, you have to have trust, people who can

:16:52.:16:56.

work together, we believe you can be a team, and in the last 48 hours,

:16:57.:16:59.

although Jeremy Corbyn has flexed his muscles and shown his authority,

:17:00.:17:09.

in some ways, there have been -- there has been chaos around it, the

:17:10.:17:12.

thin strands of trust that have been, some of them are snapping all

:17:13.:17:16.

over the place in the does the Shadow Cabinet not better reflect

:17:17.:17:21.

Jeremy Corbyn's views and in a sense, he has tightened his grip on

:17:22.:17:26.

those key issues, not on Syria, but certainly on Trident? That is why I

:17:27.:17:31.

say he has achieved one thing, which is neutralising the row over

:17:32.:17:37.

Trident. A defence team will be along the lines of what he wants to

:17:38.:17:42.

do. He has shown to assert his authority to some degree but for

:17:43.:17:45.

things to work and for the party to be able to hold together, rather

:17:46.:17:51.

than just become a much smaller, tighter band of people gathered

:17:52.:17:55.

around Jeremy Corbyn... It is a strange situation where we we know,

:17:56.:18:01.

as we have been told several times, the official Labour policy is in

:18:02.:18:04.

favour of renewing Trident and yet we know that that is not the

:18:05.:18:06.

direction that Mr Corbyn once. In a sense, this is why this has had

:18:07.:18:21.

such wider appeal, for the many people who have signed up to be a

:18:22.:18:26.

part of this, and we must not forget that, but he believes that the real

:18:27.:18:30.

way of changing things is not in this Square Mile, it is not on the

:18:31.:18:33.

green benches, not in the House of Commons, it is by having a

:18:34.:18:35.

grassroots movement around the country, about expanding the way the

:18:36.:18:40.

NEC makes policies, and there is that kind of extra-Parliamentary bit

:18:41.:18:47.

about it. That is part of what he has been doing with Trident. He has

:18:48.:18:50.

been very honest about his own personal views but he has not

:18:51.:18:52.

imposed personal views but he has not

:18:53.:18:57.

And that is quite significant. Were you aware of a number of your shadow

:18:58.:19:00.

cabinet colleagues being prepared to resign if Mr Benn was fired? No. Was

:19:01.:19:07.

that the case, Laura? That is what I was told by several of them, no

:19:08.:19:08.

question. Now, people can say they was told by several of them, no

:19:09.:19:15.

they really have done it if it came to pass? I spoke to many

:19:16.:19:18.

they really have done it if it came colleagues across the shadow cabinet

:19:19.:19:19.

and none of us had colleagues across the shadow cabinet

:19:20.:19:29.

that there was a lot of briefing and speculation

:19:30.:19:29.

that there was a lot of briefing and Hilary Benn getting sacked and about

:19:30.:19:33.

a revenge reshuffle and Hilary Benn getting sacked and about

:19:34.:19:36.

whip being moved, and in the end, none of that happened. I'm not sure

:19:37.:19:38.

there was ever any none of that happened. I'm not sure

:19:39.:19:42.

to happen. So why did it take almost two days for almost nothing to

:19:43.:19:47.

happen? I think Jeremy wanted to have a chance to meet with people

:19:48.:19:51.

and discuss things with them. He did not meet with you. It turned out the

:19:52.:19:55.

media predictions just were not correct. Of course there is always

:19:56.:19:59.

frenzied speculation, but the message from people close to Jeremy

:20:00.:20:03.

Corbyn unquestionably was, he wanted new faces at defence - he has got

:20:04.:20:08.

that, which is a success for him. And he has wanted a new face also in

:20:09.:20:14.

charge of foreign policy. And he hasn't got that bit. And that

:20:15.:20:20.

message was being conveyed. That was being conveyed by

:20:21.:20:26.

message was being conveyed. That was now going to be allowed to go its

:20:27.:20:28.

message was being conveyed. That was way after the deal is done and the

:20:29.:20:29.

referendum campaign is are going to go? I am a mild,

:20:30.:20:54.

non-frothing outer. My first act in the nineteen seventies... I am

:20:55.:21:00.

asking you about this one, not 1975. Which way will you vote? I have just

:21:01.:21:06.

told you. I am probably an outer. For me,

:21:07.:21:08.

told you. I am probably an outer. pull a pretty big rabbit out of the

:21:09.:21:10.

hat. I'm not sure the agenda he pull a pretty big rabbit out of the

:21:11.:21:14.

put forward to try and get reform would suffice for me because I think

:21:15.:21:16.

they would suffice for me because I think

:21:17.:21:20.

benefits and movement of people. The key thing is, who makes our law. And

:21:21.:21:24.

I think at the moment too much of our law is made by this artificial

:21:25.:21:31.

construct, of Europe. This is the day when the Labour Party suddenly

:21:32.:21:35.

labelled itself dysfunctional. Not at all. We are united Europe, unlike

:21:36.:21:40.

you, and focused on the interests of the country, unlike you. We

:21:41.:21:45.

certainly are. And we have got a new Shadow Europe Minister, in Pat

:21:46.:21:48.

Glass, who has campaigned for a long time... Having got rid of a very

:21:49.:21:53.

good, competent person in Pat McFadden, who is a great guy. He is,

:21:54.:21:59.

but Pat Glass... The Prime Minister said on special advisers that there

:22:00.:22:04.

were fewer than under the previous government, whether he was referring

:22:05.:22:08.

to the coalition government... There are currently 92. There were more

:22:09.:22:12.

than 100 and the coalition. Under Mr Brown there were 74. So there are

:22:13.:22:19.

Fuhrer advises under Mr Brown Van there are now under Mr Cameron. Just

:22:20.:22:24.

to clarify that. Can you name every single one of them? I will have to

:22:25.:22:30.

write them all down! You will win a mug if you can!

:22:31.:22:32.

Now, you might not realise it to look at the mild-mannered

:22:33.:22:34.

exteriors of Lisa and Alan here, but underneath they and many other

:22:35.:22:37.

MPs are seething with pent up rudeness they are desperate

:22:38.:22:39.

They're probably just waiting until they no longer

:22:40.:22:43.

Well, here's the former Labour MP Tom Harris with his soapbox...

:22:44.:22:56.

It is hard to believe, I know, but sometimes it seems that people

:22:57.:22:59.

go out of their way to be rude to politicians.

:23:00.:23:04.

And sometimes, not often enough as far as I am concerned,

:23:05.:23:08.

Graham Jones MP recently received an e-mail from a man who told him

:23:09.:23:15.

that by voting for military action in Syria, he would have the blood

:23:16.:23:19.

of tens of thousands of innocents on his hands.

:23:20.:23:22.

And with refreshing northern directness, Graham replied,

:23:23.:23:27.

I once had to physically remove a constituent from my advice surgery

:23:28.:23:37.

because he had been particularly abusive.

:23:38.:23:40.

And I told him that he would not expect to receive any help

:23:41.:23:44.

Unfortunately, to my lasting regret, I never actually told him

:23:45.:23:50.

In a country where honesty and transparency and the right

:23:51.:23:58.

to protest, like this one behind me, are valued above all others,

:23:59.:24:03.

it is significant, nay depressing, that our elected representatives

:24:04.:24:06.

must avoid telling the truth to their constituents,

:24:07.:24:11.

especially when that truth is what they actually think of them.

:24:12.:24:20.

MPs have to take it, not dish it out.

:24:21.:24:24.

It is their job to sit and listen and do as they are told

:24:25.:24:32.

by the people who after all pay their very generous

:24:33.:24:34.

If you want to tell your MP that he is murdering

:24:35.:24:41.

But don't be offended if in return he tells you that

:24:42.:24:48.

you are an appeaser of murdering, fascist, rapist, torturing scum.

:24:49.:24:51.

Oh, and thanks so much for taking the time to write.

:24:52.:24:56.

It is time for politicians to fight back.

:24:57.:24:58.

Don't hold back in this interview, Tom. Tell us what you really think!

:24:59.:25:18.

Is this the result of pent-up anger that you have wanted to unleash on

:25:19.:25:21.

those constituents while you were an MP? It probably is! Did it do you

:25:22.:25:28.

any good, raising your voice occasionally? It did not do me any

:25:29.:25:33.

harm. I remember the occasion that I referred to when I had to physically

:25:34.:25:36.

throw somebody out of my surgery. I was re-elected by an even bigger

:25:37.:25:41.

majority after that. But you were not in a marginal seat? No. I think

:25:42.:25:47.

part of the vast experience that I have is that people are generally

:25:48.:25:51.

respect for and nice. So, you are talking about a few people here.

:25:52.:25:56.

Sometimes you get abuse. But there is a low level of passive aggression

:25:57.:25:59.

which sometimes you have to deal with. When you are out with your

:26:00.:26:02.

family and people feel they have the right to come up to you and just be

:26:03.:26:06.

a little bit undermining in front of your family and your kids. I guess

:26:07.:26:13.

it is completely unacceptable. Are you being thin skinned on this

:26:14.:26:20.

issue? I mean, was ever thus, people get very upset about issues of war

:26:21.:26:23.

and peace, the economy, benefits, whatever it is. Isn't that your job

:26:24.:26:29.

to kind of soak it up a little bit? No, it is not. I think MPs have got

:26:30.:26:36.

as much right to be treated with respect, not deference, in the same

:26:37.:26:40.

way as a GP or a head teacher should be treated with respect. If people

:26:41.:26:45.

are rude to you I think it is perfectly acceptable to offer the

:26:46.:26:49.

same level of rudeness back. Do you do that, Alan, if a constituent is

:26:50.:26:53.

rude to you in that sort of way? Yes, you either humour it and brush

:26:54.:26:57.

them off, but if somebody is consistently rude, yes. What I find

:26:58.:27:02.

has completely changed, setting aside the deep vulgarity of social

:27:03.:27:07.

media, is actually the e-mail, which has made people fire things off in

:27:08.:27:11.

the dead of night, and they are very aggressive in their language. Quite

:27:12.:27:14.

often I go back and say, I refuse to correspond with you until you are

:27:15.:27:18.

prepared to be polite and considerate in your tone deaf I have

:27:19.:27:22.

had to do that more and more over the last five years. Lucy, you are

:27:23.:27:29.

relatively new MP, but do you think people have become more rude since

:27:30.:27:35.

then? I think social media means people correspond in ways that they

:27:36.:27:39.

would not. Also I think people shout at you because they are frustrated.

:27:40.:27:42.

Tom compared it to the GP or the headteacher. You learn to work out

:27:43.:27:47.

when people are actually just really, really frustrated and how to

:27:48.:27:50.

handle that and help them climb down. Have you ever been frightened

:27:51.:27:56.

in surgeries? You are a big chap, Tom... I am not! Would you ever be

:27:57.:28:05.

scared and intimidated? I did have one constituent who came to see me

:28:06.:28:09.

in a rage, demanding that I intervened because he had been

:28:10.:28:12.

turned down for a gun licence because of an anger management

:28:13.:28:15.

problem. I was not so much frightened as very clear! What did

:28:16.:28:21.

you say? And very concise! Tom Harris, thank you very much. Let's

:28:22.:28:27.

put you out of your misery and give you the answer to need guess the

:28:28.:28:36.

year. The year was 2007. Steven Webster from Hemel Hampstead, well

:28:37.:28:37.

done!

:28:38.:28:48.

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn are joined by Conservative MP Sir Alan Duncan and the shadow energy secretary Lisa Nandy to discuss PMQs, the reshuffle in the Labour Party and the junior doctors' strike.

Plus, the former MP Tom Harris reveals what politicians really think of their constituents.


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