08/01/2016 Daily Politics


08/01/2016

Andrew Neil with the latest political news and debate, including the decision to scrap an inquiry into banking culture and a new party hoping to represent unionists in Scotland.


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The Government has denied exaggerating a warning

:00:37.:00:43.

from the medical director of NHS England about the impact

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of a possible strike by junior doctors.

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We'll hear from the former health minister Norman Lamb.

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After the City watchdog drops an investigation into the culture

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and practices of banks, have we moved beyond

:00:58.:00:59.

The United States claims 2,500 Islamic State fighter were killed

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in December by coalition air-strikes.

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We'll discuss the campaign against IS in Iraq and Syria.

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And in the first of a new series of films, we talk to former Home

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I always felt as Home Secretary there was some person who worked in

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the department whose name you did not know, whose responsibilities you

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had no idea of, who was going to destroy your career.

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All that in the next hour and with us for the whole

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of the programme today I'm joined by the Times columnist

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Rachel Sylvester, and the Independent's Middle East

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First, let's talk about a report in this morning's Independent that

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officials working for Jeremy Hunt intervened in the writing

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of a warning from NHS England's medical director Bruce Keogh

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to the British Medical Association about the risks to patient care

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in the event of a major terrorist attack during

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Staff from the Department of Health urged Bruce Keogh

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to make his warning as "hard-edged" as possible.

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"Given it is the Government's ultimate responsibility to do

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everything it can to ensure public safety, it is completely right

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that the Department expressed a view on communication with the BMA".

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Let's talk now to the former health minister, the Liberal Democrat

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Norman Lamb, he's in our Norwich studio.

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What is wrong with the medical director and the government wanting

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to make sure that we'd be covered jawing a strike in the event of a

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terrorist attack? I don't have any difficulty with liaison, discussion.

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Indeed, when I was in the department there was constant discussion with

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NHS England. But one of the principles of the Andrew Lansley

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reforms was to create this independent body. And I suspect

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you'd probably agree that it does look rather as if an independent

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official within NHS England is being leaned on by the government on

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something that ultimately very politically sensitive. But he

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doesn't say that, he says it was entirely appropriate that the NHS

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should coordinate the operational response to the strike threat. Well,

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as I say, I have no difficulty with discussion between the department

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and NHS England. But what concerns me most about all of this is that it

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will probably damage trust further between the government and the

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junior doctors. And what's in the interest of everyone is that

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actually we get this dispute settled and settled very quickly. That's a

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different matter. I understand that but it is a different matter.

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There's been a brouhaha about this letter and trying to work out

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exactly what's with it. Let me quote the letter, because the relevant

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part is the following: "Will the BMA NCO that members will be available

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to respond to a major incident whether this is declared because of

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a single event or an unprecedented surge in activity? Will junior

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doctors who would otherwise have been rostered for duty make

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themselves available to respond in a timely way within an hour of a major

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incident being declared?" What timely way within an hour of a major

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wrong with the medical director request in that information? So if

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you remember back to when this was released, it caused an enormous

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furore among young doctors, they made clear at that time that of

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course they would respond, it is part of their duty as doctors to

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respond in the event of an emergency of that sort. And I suppose the

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critical thing, Andrew, and you will understand this absolutely, is was

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this politics getting involved? Was it actually to just six it up a bit

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in order to put pressure on the BMA at a moment of intense pressure in

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this dispute? What I'm interested in is finding ways of ratcheting down

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the battle tween government and junior doctors to find a settlement

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to this dispute rather than making it more difficult. All right, Norman

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Lamb, thanks for joining us. Rachel, is there a story in this? We've been

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there before with sexed up dossiers and the problem for the government

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is that if it looks like they are playing politics with the NHS. It

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looked as though they were exploiting the Paris terror attacks.

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Surely it is the duty of the government, if it faces a junior

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doctors strike, not talking about the ROMs or rights of that, but

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facing a strike, is not the of the government to establish that these

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junior doctors will, as they almost certainly would, make themselves

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available in the event of a terrorist attack? Absolutely, but

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the point was whether the letter was really written to be leaked. I think

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it is about the politics, playing politics with the NHS, which applies

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equally to the BMA. Patients and voters will not forgive politicians

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or doctors who look as though they are playing politics. The government

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could, or the Department of Health, could just have left Bruce Keogh to

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write the letter in his own words in his own way? Yes, I mean this is

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presented as being independent and it obviously isn't independent. It

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also seems to be exploiting the massacre in Paris in a way, you

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know, people were criticised for exploiting 9/11. But if you were the

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government you exploiting 9/11. But if you were the

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sure that these junior doctors were available in the event of a

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terrorist attack given the atmosphere of the time, all talk was

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Britain could just as easily be under threat, it was the duty of the

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government to make sure that the doctors will turn up. I have no

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reason to believe that they wouldn't. My guess is they would

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break their strike and they would of course come into the hospitals, but

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the government had to establish that. But that does not seem to have

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been the purpose of this letter and the publicity given to this letter.

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This was to put pressure on the junior doctors. It does not seem to

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have been a perfectly reasonable administrative instruction. It seems

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to have had a very direct political intent. Just to ratchet things up?

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To ratchet things up, and rather naive, knowing that if this got out

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they would get a lot of egg on their face, which is what has happened.

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The question for today is all about radio phone-ins.

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Who is the latest politician to decide to join the likes

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of Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson and host a regular show on LBC

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Is it a) William Hague, b) Alex Salmond,

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I guess he wouldn't have to come to the country coming he could do it

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down the line. and Patrick will give us

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the correct answer. It's pretty easy this week, isn't

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it? I'm giving nothing away. That's what we like.

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Are the Government and the regulators going soft on banks?

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That's the fear among some MPs after the City watchdog announced

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that it was shelving a review into banking culture.

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The culture many people thought helped create the crisis in 2008.

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MPs on the Treasury Select Committee have summoned the bosses

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of the Financial Conduct Authority to give evidence later this month

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George Osborne says he had no prior knowledge of the decision.

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But, more broadly, is the Government shifting its tone

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In June shortly after the general election George Osborne made

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a speech to top bankers at the Mansion house in London.

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In July, in his emergency budget, the Chancellor took further action

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by reducing the bank levy and replacing it with a less onerous

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Before the election HSBC declared that the bank levy was a factor

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in its ongoing deliberation over whether to move its headquarters out

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Later that month Martin Wheatley, the chief executive of the City

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watchdog the Financial Conduct Authority -

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Mr Wheatley was unpopular with city bosses.

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For example, in 2014-15, the watchdog raised ?1.4 billion

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in fines on banks and other financial companies,

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more than in the previous four years combined.

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And just last month the FCA revealed that it had shelved plans

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for an inquiry into the culture, pay and behaviour of staff in banking.

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The chairman of the Commons Treasury Select Committee,

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Andrew Tyrie, said recent decisions by the FCA were giving

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the impression of a "weakening of resolve".

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George Osborne was asked about that yesterday on the BBC.

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That was a completely independent decision that I had no foreknowledge

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of. What did you think of it? It's got to be an independent decision

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for our banking regulator. But you are the Chancellor and you must have

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a view as to whether there should be that sort of investigation into the

:11:12.:11:15.

way the banks have been behaving? I would say that we did have that

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investigation, it was a cross-party parliamentary commission that

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included people like the Archbishop of Canterbury on the.

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We've been joined from Sheffield by the Labour MP John Mann,

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who is a member of the Treasury Select Committee.

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And in the studio is the stock broker and market commentator,

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And I should just say that we did ask the Treasury for an interview

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with a government minister on this, but none was available.

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David Buik, is the government changing its attitude to the banking

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industry? I don't think so. We have come a long way since John McFall's

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committee after the financial crisis. He was the labour on Peter

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chaired it under the last Labour government. Yes, keep late a leading

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Andrew Svoboda versus role -- he played a leading and

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it was a shambles and the government did not seem to know what was going

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on. An awful lot of water has passed under the bridge, a lot of changing

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personalities. I believe the situation now that Andrew Bailey is

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responsible for Prudential banking, he has the great response of the

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entire industry, he is a very good communicator. The regulations have

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changed. We will not know if they are the right regulations until we

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hit the next crisis, we never do. But are we really sure that the

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culture has changed all that much? Are we really sure that a lot of the

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kind of culture that created the crisis in 2007 and 2008 is still not

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there? I absolutely think the changes have been implemented.

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Because a lot of this stuff that has come up, the PPI stuff, you will see

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a lot of court cases with people serving long prison sentences which

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they deserve. Every time I'm told that by somebody in the city,

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another scandal erupts. Yes but many of them, with great respect, our

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historical, and it takes a long time to bring these people to book. As

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far as I'm concerned Tracy McDermott has done a fantastic job. And she

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is? She is basically the temporary head of the FCA until somebody is

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appointed. She won't mind me saying this, she is around five, and she is

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a brilliant Rottweilers. So why doesn't the government give her the

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job? She doesn't want it. Maybe she knows something we don't. John Mann,

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the Treasury Select Committee is going to bring in the bosses of the

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FCA to find out why this enquiry was shelved. What do you think, at the

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moment, is going on? Well we know what is going on. In August the FCA

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had a huge amount of work ongoing into culture within banks and how to

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ensure that the culture was appropriate. In September Martin

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Wheatley left and instantly all that work was changed. Not just one piece

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of work, but lots of pieces of work that have been going on for some

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years. Every single bit of it dropped. In essence the FCA will

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have no point for existing. But since the FCA is, we are told, in

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independent regular tree authority, why would it dropped this enquiry

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into culture, even if the government wanted it? The government has no

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part in stopping it. It is my belief the government has interfered. I

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think the enquiry will prove that, and hopefully prove precisely how

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they have interfered. The FCA has not reached its own conclusions. Its

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been told what to do. It's been told by the Treasury. And it's a bit

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weaselly for George Osborne to say "I had no prior knowledge". We can

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define that as saying, I personally wasn't informed, because the way I

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operate is that they don't inform us of those, with a nod and a wink. His

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officials knew what was going on and I predict that he wants one of his

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senior officials to in fact run the FCA to complete the job for him,

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which is to neuter it. So you believe that contrary to what

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Mr Osborne told the BBC this week that the government was involved on,

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if I put it this way, Leeming, pressuring, the FCA not to proceed

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with this inquiry? Directly and specifically, not just generally but

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specifically. I think that the Treasury committee inquiry will

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uncover how that happened and it is a huge scandal in terms of the

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approach of the government, not least because they're saying one

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thing publicly, as Osborne did, but doing something else privately. But

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also the motives for doing it. And in my view, George Osborne's motive

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is to maximise the income he gets back in from selling of shares in

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RBS and Lloyds bank. That's what this is about because the economy

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isn't going as well as he wants and his projections, which he gets

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independently from the OBR, are not going to be that good in his March

:16:39.:16:43.

budget and later this year. He wants to compensate for that. It is

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obviously a very important and serious accusation, that you are

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saying the government did lean on this, and it would be fascinating to

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see the evidence because the Treasury are saying that isn't what

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happened. I'm saying it very specifically. Let me ask you this

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question. Given that your inquiry hasn't yet started, your inquiry

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into the lack of an inquiry, which is a what you're about to do, how do

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you know all this? Because when we've had the FCA in front of us

:17:14.:17:16.

before we are aware of what their work programme has been and their

:17:17.:17:21.

priorities and it is not just this one inquiry that they were doing

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into culture and the work on that, it's a series of things that they've

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dropped. Some things have been announced. I believe there are other

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pieces of work that have been dropped that were very important

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internally in the FCA that have disappeared, stopped, ended. This is

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a huge change in regulation and in essence, what has happened is that

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the Prudential RideLondon to, the PR eight, and Mr Bailey, which looks at

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the grand picture, is continuing its work but the precise regulation of

:17:59.:18:04.

individual banks and individual bankers has come to an end. It is

:18:05.:18:09.

self-regulation now for individual banks. That is a huge approach that

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has not been agreed by Parliament and I don't believe there's a

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consensus in the that it is right to do that. Let me put that. What is

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your response? Obviously, he is privileged information but I don't

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get but I think Andrew baby at the Prudential banking authority has a

:18:29.:18:33.

very close relationship with the FCA and banks have transgressed. Nobody

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is trying to get away from that. But they have been rubbished to a degree

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where it is care to productive to recovery and I think Andrew Bailey

:18:42.:18:44.

and his meetings with the FCA have probably decided that the work in

:18:45.:18:49.

terms of dealing with the behavioural factor should be done

:18:50.:18:55.

individually by each bank. John Mann can summon whoever he likes, or the

:18:56.:19:00.

chairman, to ask an investigation and they are highly entitled to do

:19:01.:19:04.

so but I believe that you deal with one individual bank, each one in

:19:05.:19:09.

this country, on an individual basis and you will get a much better

:19:10.:19:15.

result in the long term. Would it not be fair to surmise that the

:19:16.:19:19.

government has taken fright at the prospect of HSBC moving its

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headquarters from London? It is by far the biggest bank even though

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most of its operations are not in this country. And indeed we learn

:19:26.:19:34.

that the FCA is shelving, is not pursuing, action against HSBC over

:19:35.:19:38.

its Swiss private banking arm, which was such a scandal last year. Again,

:19:39.:19:44.

that was HSBC. You could put together a case to say that the

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Government is kind of in retreat from the banks. You could and it

:19:49.:19:55.

doesn't look terribly good but what I'm saying to you is that I believe

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that within the importance of the Bank of England and all the

:19:59.:20:01.

regulatory authorities, they have a duty of care to make sure that the

:20:02.:20:05.

banking fraternity works as well as it possibly can. It is a matter of

:20:06.:20:11.

wholesale indifference to Douglas and to Stuart Gulliver, the chairman

:20:12.:20:14.

to the Executive of HSBC, whether they have their head office in

:20:15.:20:17.

London or not because they can go pretty much anywhere. But it would

:20:18.:20:25.

be huge reputational damage to the government if it was to lose HSBC.

:20:26.:20:31.

It is more than that. It would be huge rotation or damage to the city

:20:32.:20:34.

and on and the City of London Police financial sector contributes about

:20:35.:20:38.

50% of GDP. I believe this is a pragmatic approach. John Mann and

:20:39.:20:44.

his Treasury select committee have every right to have the drains up to

:20:45.:20:47.

see why they've come around to these decisions but I haven't think it has

:20:48.:20:51.

been done with the best interests of everybody, in the full knowledge

:20:52.:20:55.

that the FCA will bring transgressors to book in a very

:20:56.:20:58.

serious manner and we will find this out in the next three to six months

:20:59.:21:02.

when loads of people are going to go to jail. Unless you are in HSBC's

:21:03.:21:07.

Swiss banking arm. John Mann, I will give you the final word. David was

:21:08.:21:11.

exactly right that watch it happen is that each bank is properly

:21:12.:21:15.

regulated individually. That is exactly the change that is taking

:21:16.:21:20.

place. That is the regulation that is not going to happen. It is all

:21:21.:21:27.

going to be generalised - risks to the whole system. Mr Bailey's role

:21:28.:21:32.

in it and the PRA. The regulator will in essence have no effective

:21:33.:21:38.

role whatsoever in the future. This is a huge change. We need to expose

:21:39.:21:42.

that and have a proper debate about whether that decision, inspired by

:21:43.:21:47.

Osborne and the Treasury, is the right one. Obviously, I don't make

:21:48.:21:52.

it is. I understand. Very briefly, Wendy you expect to have the FCA in

:21:53.:21:57.

front of the select committee? It is this month. I also hope and think we

:21:58.:22:00.

will have Mr Osborne and perhaps other Treasury officials as well.

:22:01.:22:04.

Come back and taught was after you have these meetings? Will do. --

:22:05.:22:13.

come back and talk to us. Thank you very much. A developing story that

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we will be continuing to cover. The UK continues to fly intensive

:22:15.:22:29.

armed reconnaissance missions across Syria and Iraq,

:22:30.:22:31.

but missions in the last few days over northern Iraq, attacking

:22:32.:22:36.

targets in Mosul and Ramadi. On the 30th of December,

:22:37.:22:50.

Tornados returned to Ramadi, bombing two machine-gun positions

:22:51.:22:53.

and assisting coalition aircraft in strikes on IS militants,

:22:54.:22:58.

as Typhoons assisted the Peshmerga with an attack on a terrorist rocket

:22:59.:23:06.

launcher team near Sinjar Typhoons and Tornados

:23:07.:23:09.

continued to patrol the Sinjar area on the last day

:23:10.:23:15.

of 2015, using Paveways against machine-gun positions

:23:16.:23:20.

and a group of militants. On New Year's Day, an RAF Reaper

:23:21.:23:24.

drone supported coalition air strikes in Ramadi,

:23:25.:23:29.

and on the following day another Reaper used Hellfire missile

:23:30.:23:32.

near the city of Fallujah. A city of certain iconic status in

:23:33.:23:46.

whole story. At the beginning of this year,

:23:47.:23:50.

Typhoons delivered a number of successful attacks in Ramadi

:23:51.:23:52.

and Tornados and a Reaper drone attacked nine other targets

:23:53.:23:55.

across northern Iraq. While the RAF continue to fly

:23:56.:23:56.

surveillance missions over Syria, the last time a British aircraft

:23:57.:23:59.

struck the country when an RAF Reaper hit a checkpoint

:24:00.:24:01.

south of IS stronghold We can speak to the BBC's

:24:02.:24:05.

defence correspondent Before we come onto the British, how

:24:06.:24:24.

much credence is the defence community giving the American claims

:24:25.:24:29.

that IS is now suffering real casualties from the air war? I think

:24:30.:24:34.

there is credence and I think there is also evidence that IS are losing

:24:35.:24:39.

ground. For example, Ron Mahdi is now in the hands of Iraqi security

:24:40.:24:46.

forces, albeit there are pockets of resistance. The town has been

:24:47.:24:49.

booby-trapped and is still difficult to move around but there is no doubt

:24:50.:24:58.

that the territory it has has shrunk by 40% in Iraq, Tampa sent in Syria.

:24:59.:25:02.

But on that point of casualties, it is interesting. In December, the

:25:03.:25:08.

Coalition, the Pentagon essentially, said that 2500 IS fighters had been

:25:09.:25:17.

killed. Overall, 5000 have been killed in the past year plus a few

:25:18.:25:21.

months yet they still say that there are still about 30,000 IS fighters

:25:22.:25:25.

so there are lots of people who aren't sure that this strategy of

:25:26.:25:28.

killing them is going to work because other people pop up, as

:25:29.:25:32.

we've seen in Iraq and Afghanistan. You take out high-value targets and

:25:33.:25:36.

mid-level targets and the resort was somebody else who takes their place.

:25:37.:25:39.

And on the British contribution, in Syria itself, are we right to be

:25:40.:25:45.

quizzical about what would seem to be the lack of activity of the dish

:25:46.:25:50.

forces over Syria? I don't think you'd be right to say the RAF has

:25:51.:25:54.

been doing nothing because they have been very busy carrying out strikes

:25:55.:25:58.

six days out of seven in Iraq, pretty much every day for the past

:25:59.:26:02.

month. They have been supporting that operation and fast jets like

:26:03.:26:07.

tornadoes and typhoons are like the cavalry, helping troops to the

:26:08.:26:11.

ground. They are helping in a way they are not in Syria. You can ask

:26:12.:26:15.

the question legitimately when the Prime Minister said ahead of that

:26:16.:26:19.

quote, just over a month ago, that Britain would make a meaningful

:26:20.:26:23.

difference, has Britain made a meaningful difference in Syria, and

:26:24.:26:26.

the answer at the moment does not appear to be yes. I understand that

:26:27.:26:32.

RAF Reaper is - and we saw an RAF Reaper doing a strike on Christmas

:26:33.:26:36.

Day - have been looking out for high-value targets. They have seen

:26:37.:26:41.

high-value targets, I'm told, but they haven't carried out attacks,

:26:42.:26:44.

they haven't carried a out a Hellfire Missiles fire because there

:26:45.:26:50.

hasn't been the right time. They do not want to cause a billion

:26:51.:26:53.

casualties. There has to be the right time when they get those

:26:54.:26:56.

individuals. -- cause civilian casualties. I think you can say that

:26:57.:27:05.

reapers have been doing surveillance missions over Iraq. They are looking

:27:06.:27:09.

out for individuals but they haven't made a difference yet. Thank you

:27:10.:27:10.

very much for that. Let's discuss this campaign against

:27:11.:27:20.

Islamic State with my two guests. You have a new book out called Chaos

:27:21.:27:28.

and Caliphate. You briefed Labour MPs on air strikes in Syria before

:27:29.:27:31.

the vote in parliament. What did you tell them? Well, I said that I was

:27:32.:27:40.

all in favour of Islamic State being weakened or eliminated but what was

:27:41.:27:46.

proposed really wouldn't have much effect. Already, before Britain

:27:47.:27:51.

became involved, there were far more American air emissions than there

:27:52.:27:55.

are actual attacks. In other words, there are more aircraft in the sky

:27:56.:27:59.

looking for targets and they can find targets, so this was never

:28:00.:28:07.

going to have much military impact. There are successes, like Ramadi, in

:28:08.:28:13.

a sense. The Iraqi army moves in. But first of all, Ramadi is now in

:28:14.:28:18.

ruins so we used to have a population of 600000 and these

:28:19.:28:21.

people are now internally displaced. Some of them will be refugees

:28:22.:28:27.

abroad. But as inevitable as part of a wall. But particularly this type

:28:28.:28:33.

of war. It is presented as a victory for the Iraqi army but they have

:28:34.:28:39.

been, in many cases, a mopping up force after the other side has been

:28:40.:28:43.

eliminated or weakened by heavy air attack. So air attacks in Iraq have

:28:44.:28:50.

played a role? Yes, but in very specific circumstances. Also in

:28:51.:28:55.

Syria. If so-called Islamic State fighters, and they are very well

:28:56.:28:58.

trained, dig in and fight to the last bullet in fixed positions that

:28:59.:29:02.

you can identify with ground forces, they are going to suffer heavy

:29:03.:29:06.

losses. They did this in the siege of Kobane which went on for four

:29:07.:29:11.

months. And they did lose in the end. But in Ramadi, they haven't

:29:12.:29:19.

really done that again. They leave 250 350 men behind, they don't fight

:29:20.:29:23.

the last bullet. They are sort of reverting to being a gorilla force

:29:24.:29:26.

so it becomes more difficult to target them. Let me ask you this.

:29:27.:29:32.

Unlike a year ago, or even less, Islamic State is losing ground in

:29:33.:29:37.

Iraq now. It has lost several cities or towns. The Pentagon, though I

:29:38.:29:42.

would put a big question mark over their 25,000 figure - I remember the

:29:43.:29:46.

Vietnam figures, which were fantastical as well do- but even so

:29:47.:29:51.

we know they have been suffering casualties. There are also

:29:52.:29:55.

increasing reports that they're suffering increasing defections as

:29:56.:29:59.

well. Would it not be possible to argue, or at least consider, but

:30:00.:30:03.

Islamic State is now passed its peak?

:30:04.:30:10.

Yes, they are being attacked by different forces at different

:30:11.:30:17.

points. But losing ground? One thing to bear in mind is that the

:30:18.:30:20.

battlefield is about the size of Great Britain and a lot of this

:30:21.:30:25.

ground is desert or semi desert. 40% of Syria is step land or does it.

:30:26.:30:31.

All of this stuff that comes out of the Pentagon, saying 14% lost to

:30:32.:30:38.

Islamic State territory, it is pretty meaningless. The population

:30:39.:30:41.

is very concentrated along the rivers and in the cities. So yes,

:30:42.:30:46.

they are under pressure, yes, they have suffered losses, but all these

:30:47.:30:52.

very precise figures like 2500 dead, obviously amiss. Take with a big

:30:53.:30:57.

inch of salt. They have tunnels underground, they do not appear

:30:58.:31:00.

outside, they do not publish casualties figures. They are an

:31:01.:31:06.

attempt to produce finite figures that Isis, Islamic State, is not

:31:07.:31:10.

only passed its peak, but going down, and there really isn't any

:31:11.:31:14.

evidence for that at the moment. But less than a year ago Islamic State

:31:15.:31:18.

looked like it was unstoppable. There were even stories it was going

:31:19.:31:23.

to get to Baghdad at one stage. It doesn't have that situation now,

:31:24.:31:27.

does it? No. Well there are two things, aren't there? Islamic State

:31:28.:31:30.

the military force and Islamic State the ideology. The more thing is that

:31:31.:31:35.

the ideologies shows no signs of being defeated and that seems to be

:31:36.:31:39.

spreading around the world. So this isn't just about troops on the

:31:40.:31:43.

ground, winning or who's losing a ground war in or Syria, it's also

:31:44.:31:48.

about the spread of an awful and dreadful, wicked ideology to Britain

:31:49.:31:54.

and other countries. And it's being exported and spreading. And you are

:31:55.:31:58.

seeing young girls being radicalised in their bedrooms in the east of

:31:59.:32:05.

London. The chief henchman wielding his sword is a British man. And

:32:06.:32:10.

that's the battle. It is a battle of ideas. At least, if not more than a

:32:11.:32:16.

battle of guns, I'd say. Rachel talks about the ideology of Islamic

:32:17.:32:23.

State spreading into other parts of the world, into the Maghreb. How

:32:24.:32:28.

significant is the Islamic State presents now in Libya? Well, it's

:32:29.:32:34.

pretty significant. You have seen that they blew up a police academy

:32:35.:32:39.

yesterday with a vehicle packed with explosives. They killed 65, 100

:32:40.:32:46.

people. They have spread along the coast from the city of Sirte. That

:32:47.:32:54.

is now one of their strongholds. They have tried to take over two of

:32:55.:33:00.

the big oil ports, there. So they have taken over a huge chunk of

:33:01.:33:05.

territory. Just a slightly different view from Rachel, it is important to

:33:06.:33:08.

Islamic State that they actually have a functioning state. It may be

:33:09.:33:13.

under pressure. Because they want the caliphate. And that was not a

:33:14.:33:22.

name of Al-Qaeda, they did not run a state. They also have an

:33:23.:33:25.

administration, they conscript locals for soldiers. I do not

:33:26.:33:28.

believe this 30,000 figure, I think it is far more. From the Western

:33:29.:33:34.

European point of view, these are terrorist attacks, but what makes

:33:35.:33:37.

them so different from the old al-Qaeda, this is backed by a state

:33:38.:33:42.

with money, with resources. Revenue raising powers and so on. If it

:33:43.:33:47.

fails five times it can try another five times. That is what it is

:33:48.:33:50.

trying to do in Libya and Yemen, set up ministates. You cover all this in

:33:51.:33:58.

your book? I do. In good book shops now. Good and bad.

:33:59.:34:03.

Here at the Daily Politics, we like to spoil our loyal viewers

:34:04.:34:06.

So sit back, get comfy, and enjoy the first of a new series

:34:07.:34:11.

where Giles Dilnot has been talking to former home secretaries

:34:12.:34:14.

about leading one of the great offices of state.

:34:15.:34:29.

Whitehall, the heart of government.

:34:30.:34:33.

But do you think you could handle the police, the security services,

:34:34.:34:36.

counterterrorism and, once upon a time, prisons?

:34:37.:34:38.

Very little good news crosses the Home Secretary's

:34:39.:34:44.

Not many people come out of the Home Office with their

:34:45.:34:49.

It's extremely hard work, which isn't often

:34:50.:34:54.

You go to bed at night thinking everything is calm

:34:55.:35:01.

You're woken up at two in the morning and some

:35:02.:35:04.

It has nothing to do with you but in the

:35:05.:35:13.

morning, everyone is going to be out for your blood, saying

:35:14.:35:16.

Jill Rutter was a senior civil servant and is now at the Institute

:35:17.:35:20.

for Government, and of all Whitehall jobs she thinks this one's

:35:21.:35:23.

The Home Office used to be a real political graveyard.

:35:24.:35:28.

That was particularly when it had responsibility for prisons,

:35:29.:35:30.

which it's lost, but it's still in charge

:35:31.:35:32.

of things - counterterrorism, police, immigration -

:35:33.:35:35.

where the big question is, what will go wrong?

:35:36.:35:39.

So the Home Secretary knows that something will go wrong somewhere

:35:40.:35:42.

They don't know what and they don't know when.

:35:43.:35:47.

So one of the key attributes of being Home

:35:48.:35:49.

Secretary is to be able to manage those risks,

:35:50.:35:53.

react calmly and not be panicked by headlines into bad

:35:54.:35:56.

That level of responsibility can be daunting when offered the job.

:35:57.:36:04.

Even the Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, when he asked me to do

:36:05.:36:07.

the job, started the conversation by saying, "Jacqui, I expect this

:36:08.:36:10.

And I managed to avoid the F word that Margaret Beckett

:36:11.:36:17.

used when asked to be Foreign Secretary but I think

:36:18.:36:20.

something unguarded came out of my mouth at that particular moment.

:36:21.:36:23.

I'd actually asked him, if at all possible,

:36:24.:36:29.

It's surprising that one of the things that makes the job

:36:30.:36:33.

a challenge is the department itself.

:36:34.:36:35.

Kenneth Baker, who was one of my predecessors and a friend,

:36:36.:36:40.

he said to me, shortly before the 1997

:36:41.:36:43.

election, "Listen, Jack,", he said, "Good luck as Home Secretary.

:36:44.:36:45.

One always felt as Home Secretary there was some

:36:46.:36:51.

person who worked under a discreet department,

:36:52.:36:54.

whose name you didn't know, whose responsibilities you had

:36:55.:36:56.

no idea of, and as you put your head on your pillow at night,

:36:57.:37:00.

And I think that's probably pretty accurate because in any big

:37:01.:37:09.

organisation, things go wrong and you don't necessarily know

:37:10.:37:12.

about them until they go wrong and then

:37:13.:37:16.

the buck stops with the Secretary of State.

:37:17.:37:21.

This personal responsibility combines with the seriousness

:37:22.:37:23.

of the issue into quite a bruising mix.

:37:24.:37:25.

If you're in another department, there's quite a reasonable chance

:37:26.:37:35.

that the mistake you make will be in some dark,

:37:36.:37:38.

hidden corner, where no-one's looking.

:37:39.:37:41.

There are no dark, hidden corners in the Home Office.

:37:42.:37:47.

When I was told that I had to release a prisoner

:37:48.:37:52.

because he was convicted of an offence which didn't exist,

:37:53.:37:56.

because I had failed to have that offence renewed in the Prevention

:37:57.:38:00.

of Terrorism Temporary Provisions Order, and what had happened

:38:01.:38:03.

was an official had left off a little D

:38:04.:38:06.

from the list, and so of course I go to the House of Commons and explain

:38:07.:38:10.

that Chummy, who is plainly guilty, is going to be

:38:11.:38:13.

It is complete incompetence by J Straw.

:38:14.:38:17.

You just have to accept these things.

:38:18.:38:20.

Managing the internal structure and culture of the Home Office

:38:21.:38:23.

There were obvious times when what I wanted to do was a shock

:38:24.:38:32.

to the system within the department, which

:38:33.:38:35.

was used to saying, "I don't think, Home Secretary, we really can do

:38:36.:38:38.

This is outside the purview or the scope of what is possible".

:38:39.:38:42.

And I never accepted that for a minute.

:38:43.:38:47.

There were occasions when press officers would phone...

:38:48.:38:51.

When journalists would phone the press office to ask

:38:52.:38:55.

what the Home Office line was on whatever

:38:56.:39:00.

it was and they would be told, "Well, the Home Office line is A,

:39:01.:39:03.

And on top of trying to push your own agenda,

:39:04.:39:12.

there is the constant intrusion of crises.

:39:13.:39:20.

The day I arrived, it was a beautiful, clear,

:39:21.:39:22.

sunlit day and the permanent secretary, Richard Wilson,

:39:23.:39:24.

said to me, "Jack, what can you see out in the sky?"

:39:25.:39:27.

At any moment an Exocet, which you can't see,

:39:28.:39:35.

will come through the sky and it will land right there and it

:39:36.:39:38.

will explode unless you're very careful".

:39:39.:39:42.

Jacqui Smith had to handle a terrorist attack on Glasgow

:39:43.:39:47.

Airport and be judged on how she coped.

:39:48.:39:51.

There was a certain element of that which was, "Good grief,

:39:52.:39:55.

she didn't come running screaming out of Downing Street -

:39:56.:39:57.

Well, I always knew I was going to hold it together

:39:58.:40:02.

because I was a well-briefed, confident,

:40:03.:40:04.

experienced politician at that point.

:40:05.:40:11.

But that probably did some good in overcoming people's

:40:12.:40:13.

apprehensions at whether I was going to be able to manage it.

:40:14.:40:16.

For me, I suppose the thing that came out of the blue

:40:17.:40:19.

was the advisory council on the misuse of drugs

:40:20.:40:21.

If anyone remembers anything about my time in office,

:40:22.:40:28.

they remember that, and I still get not exactly fan mail -

:40:29.:40:31.

the opposite of fan mail - about that.

:40:32.:40:33.

But that came out of a clear blue sky.

:40:34.:40:36.

But Charles Clarke didn't believe in the department

:40:37.:40:38.

I thought that just about all crises - perhaps not the intruder

:40:39.:40:48.

in the Queen's bedroom but just about every other crisis -

:40:49.:40:51.

is, broadly speaking, predictable in general,

:40:52.:40:52.

And so the job of the Home Office, I thought, was to be

:40:53.:40:58.

able to predict what might happen, to understand what the risks

:40:59.:41:01.

were and put preventative strategies in place,

:41:02.:41:03.

Trying to focus on your political agenda on the one hand and fend off

:41:04.:41:09.

If you were to describe it graphically,

:41:10.:41:15.

it's like being in a ship, knowing your destination and having

:41:16.:41:18.

it vaguely in sight but in the middle of

:41:19.:41:23.

a tempest, in a storm, and winds which are buffeting

:41:24.:41:25.

you one way and the other every day, and trying to deal with

:41:26.:41:29.

them while at the same time reaching your destination.

:41:30.:41:32.

The only caveat I would put on that is that the destination

:41:33.:41:35.

Being such an all-consuming job is perhaps

:41:36.:41:44.

why so few Home Secretaries go on to be Prime Minister.

:41:45.:41:52.

You ignore the skills and nuances you'd need

:41:53.:41:54.

You ignore the skills and nuances you'd need to move upwards.

:41:55.:41:56.

Probably obsessed is not far off the mark with changing things

:41:57.:42:01.

that I probably didn't devote enough time and energy to the presentation.

:42:02.:42:16.

It is often a frustration at Number Ten that they feel

:42:17.:42:21.

the people who are the departmental heads in their words "go native"

:42:22.:42:24.

and stop thinking about the broader politics and start

:42:25.:42:27.

thinking about the actual job itself.

:42:28.:42:30.

And I think that was probably a criticism that could be

:42:31.:42:33.

And certainly that aspect of what I had to do

:42:34.:42:37.

as Home Secretary was always with me.

:42:38.:42:39.

The politics of the moment not always and in some ways,

:42:40.:42:41.

Isn't it an irony of one of Whitehall's toughest jobs that

:42:42.:42:46.

for the sake of keeping us all safe, the Home Secretary is worst

:42:47.:42:49.

Giles Dilnot, with the first instalment of his new series,

:42:50.:43:00.

So You Want To Be A Secretary Of State.

:43:01.:43:06.

Rachel, when you listen to all these former Home Secretary 's talking

:43:07.:43:12.

about the difficulties of the dangers, you go to sleep at night,

:43:13.:43:17.

who knows what is going to happen when you wake up? Isn't it all the

:43:18.:43:21.

more remarkable, at least in terms of longevity, that Mrs May,

:43:22.:43:28.

appointed in 2010, is still Home Secretary in 2015? And still

:43:29.:43:32.

considered a potential leader of the Tory party. It hasn't destroyed her

:43:33.:43:37.

career. Absolutely. It is the Department for things that go wrong.

:43:38.:43:41.

Crime, Law and order, drugs. Things that matter directly to voters, too.

:43:42.:43:48.

And also safety and security. John Reid one said it is a bit like a

:43:49.:43:51.

five-year-old football match, everybody chasing after the ball and

:43:52.:43:54.

everybody forgets another disaster is unfolding on the other side of

:43:55.:43:58.

the pitch. Everything going wrong on all sides. It is extraordinary that

:43:59.:44:02.

she has not only survived but is still considered a potential future

:44:03.:44:07.

prime ministers. What the Home Office covers, it is less than it

:44:08.:44:11.

used to, it used to include justice as well, there is now a separate

:44:12.:44:17.

department. It has domestic security, police, security services,

:44:18.:44:23.

counterterrorism, prisons... I think they come under justice now. But is

:44:24.:44:30.

the Home Office right to have one department for all of this, do you

:44:31.:44:34.

think, Patrick, in this sophisticated age? Yes, why not? I

:44:35.:44:38.

thought they were all looking for a sympathy vote that wasn't quite as

:44:39.:44:46.

deserved as they imagine. And people do not blame people long term for

:44:47.:44:51.

any of these disasters, they know that whoever is Home Secretary is

:44:52.:44:55.

not responsible for them. At the time, yes, there is a great sort of

:44:56.:44:59.

media coverage, who is to blame and so on. But I don't think that lasts

:45:00.:45:04.

which is why so many of these people, they've might not become a

:45:05.:45:07.

Prime Minister, but then most people don't. But long-term there are not

:45:08.:45:13.

people that live in the imagination of British people as being demonic

:45:14.:45:18.

or appalling, because I think people are more sensible than that.

:45:19.:45:24.

What we have with the Home Office now, it is like a ministry of the

:45:25.:45:30.

interior on continental Europe now. It used to be overarching. Yes, and

:45:31.:45:37.

the more liberal aspects of law and order, whether it is prisons and

:45:38.:45:41.

rehabilitation or legal, have gone to the Ministry of Justice so it is

:45:42.:45:44.

a much more crime, Law and order apartment. Giles will be back with

:45:45.:45:59.

another report shortly. In five months, people in Scotland will vote

:46:00.:46:02.

in fresh elections to the Scottish Parliament. The SNP leader and First

:46:03.:46:06.

Minister of Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon, has pledged she won't make

:46:07.:46:08.

the campaign all about independence for Scotland. The new party launched

:46:09.:46:13.

this week is determined to make the relationship between Scotland and

:46:14.:46:16.

the rest of the UK a central issue in this election. It is called A

:46:17.:46:20.

Better Britain Unionist Party and one of its founding members is

:46:21.:46:22.

Stephen Gordon, who joins us from Glasgow. There are already three

:46:23.:46:26.

Unionists parties in Scotland, the Labour party, the Liberal Democrats,

:46:27.:46:33.

among them, why do you need another one? I would consider there to be no

:46:34.:46:40.

particularly Unionist party in Scotland at the moment. We believe

:46:41.:46:46.

the other parties are nominally Unionist because they purport to

:46:47.:46:49.

support the union but what we have seen is a development of a range of

:46:50.:46:56.

policies through the Smith commission and in the latest interim

:46:57.:47:00.

report, which showed that a lot of concessions have been made in as

:47:01.:47:04.

much as what we are heading for is devolution max, for which there is

:47:05.:47:08.

no mandate from the people of Scotland to develop these policies

:47:09.:47:13.

and we believe that these policies ultimately lead to what has been

:47:14.:47:18.

called independence light and do not benefit Scotland or the United

:47:19.:47:22.

Kingdom and, indeed, are further danger to the UK. So none of these

:47:23.:47:28.

existing Unionist parties, we believe, actually do want to forward

:47:29.:47:32.

the union. They seem to be courting the SNP agenda. They are part of a

:47:33.:47:36.

5-part group that developed these policies and the reason we want to

:47:37.:47:39.

get into politics in Hollywood now is that we don't see anybody

:47:40.:47:44.

following web of filling that gap and providing a truly Unionist

:47:45.:47:50.

perspective. Am I right in thinking that you would like to see some

:47:51.:47:55.

powers that Edinburgh, Holyrood, currently has, returned to

:47:56.:47:59.

Westminster? No, that is not the case at all. When they had the

:48:00.:48:04.

initial vote on whether we should have a Scottish Parliament, whether

:48:05.:48:09.

it should have tax-raising powers, almost a third of the electorate in

:48:10.:48:12.

Scotland voted against those tax-raising powers. Almost a quarter

:48:13.:48:19.

voted not to have a Scottish Parliament at all. Since these

:48:20.:48:22.

things have come in, we've seen that the Scottish Parliament can do great

:48:23.:48:26.

things and introduce good policies that are good for the people of

:48:27.:48:31.

Scotland. We would like to see it using what is essentially a budget

:48:32.:48:35.

surplus to be able to introduce policies in Scotland that I believe

:48:36.:48:41.

could be leading to good practice across the UK. It could provide

:48:42.:48:46.

synergies for the UK and to date we have been able to do that. The

:48:47.:48:50.

problem is that what we have from the Smith commission, based on...

:48:51.:48:57.

Ultimately, to tell you how the party started, we were all working

:48:58.:49:00.

for the better together campaign and we could see that the way that the

:49:01.:49:04.

politicians were heading was actually to take us further down the

:49:05.:49:08.

road to independence without actually winning the vote and that

:49:09.:49:13.

is a thing that we had a particular concern about because we didn't

:49:14.:49:16.

believe that the existing so-called Unionist parties were promoting the

:49:17.:49:20.

policies that would help us be better together that were actually

:49:21.:49:26.

promoting policies which actually almost amounted to independence,

:49:27.:49:29.

which is something that the Scottish people... Can I just clarify,

:49:30.:49:34.

because I'm not exactly sure what it is you stand for. I know you stand

:49:35.:49:43.

for the union but I'm not sure... Is it your position that the status

:49:44.:49:46.

quo, the current division of power between Westminster and Holyrood,

:49:47.:49:51.

should remain? That, I believe, can deliver the kind of synergies, best

:49:52.:49:54.

practice and benefits for Scotland that we have currently seen. What we

:49:55.:49:59.

believe is that the further powers outlined in the Smith commission

:50:00.:50:03.

report, which is in development, will lead to something that is far

:50:04.:50:08.

greater than that and could lead to problems within the United Kingdom

:50:09.:50:11.

because of the lack of uniformity in the way of doing things. We have

:50:12.:50:17.

seen some powers, we believe, abused by the current Scottish Government

:50:18.:50:20.

in terms of setting things up like Police Scotland in a way that is

:50:21.:50:25.

different from the rest of the UK and using those powerless to do

:50:26.:50:28.

things that take us out of step with the UK in as much as it facilitates

:50:29.:50:37.

independence. How many seats are you going to win? We have been very

:50:38.:50:44.

realistic for stock we would be very happy with one list MSP. Ultimately

:50:45.:50:48.

that would be under the proportional representation system. One is

:50:49.:50:53.

modest. It is modest but then again... Yes. Thank you.

:50:54.:51:02.

We've had talk of cauliflowers in the corridors of power -

:51:03.:51:04.

and warnings of dangerous economic cocktails.

:51:05.:51:06.

Here's Ellie with the political week in just 60 seconds.

:51:07.:51:08.

The PM's new year's resolution got off to a flying start with trips

:51:09.:51:11.

He still wants to ban EU workers from

:51:12.:51:14.

claiming benefits for four years but says he is open to suggestions.

:51:15.:51:17.

He also gave his Euro-sceptic Cabinet

:51:18.:51:19.

They will be allowed to campaign to vote to leave.

:51:20.:51:23.

Jeremy Corbyn had a January detox with a reshuffle

:51:24.:51:26.

It took days but in the end he sacked two

:51:27.:51:31.

frontbenchers, prompting another three to walk out in protest.

:51:32.:51:34.

By Wednesday, he wanted to talk about

:51:35.:51:37.

something else, like flood defences, but at PMQs, David Cameron

:51:38.:51:39.

was determined to have his pound of flesh.

:51:40.:51:42.

It was a revenge reshuffle so it was going to be

:51:43.:51:45.

Speaking at PMQs, Jeremy Corbyn revealed why

:51:46.:51:54.

he's so good at that geography teacher side-eye thing.

:51:55.:51:57.

It's because he used to be a geography teacher.

:51:58.:51:59.

And finally, George Osborne warned the UK faces a cocktail of serious

:52:00.:52:02.

I think the Shadow Cabinet reshuffle is over. You can correct me if I'm

:52:03.:52:23.

wrong. Where do we go from here with Mr Corbyn and his team? I just

:52:24.:52:28.

thought watching that, each party has done its worst this week. The

:52:29.:52:34.

Tories' Europe divisions are up there in lights and Labour is back

:52:35.:52:37.

to questions on whether it can handle national security and be

:52:38.:52:40.

trusted to protect the nation, and most basic fundamental issue that

:52:41.:52:45.

voters care about. I thought the sacking of Pat McFadden was just an

:52:46.:52:49.

extraordinary way of demonstrating, by Jeremy Corbyn, that he's not

:52:50.:52:53.

going to win credibility on that. And we have Mr Livingstone on this

:52:54.:53:01.

programme, slaps down quite quickly by Labour headquarters, but raising

:53:02.:53:04.

the issue of whether we should remain members of native or stop in

:53:05.:53:08.

the last election Labour work not trusted on leadership and stop they

:53:09.:53:12.

have now added the economy and security into that mix. Where do you

:53:13.:53:18.

see Mr Corbyn? It seems to me that he has strengthened his position in

:53:19.:53:21.

the party. He sat some people. There were a lot of people I had never

:53:22.:53:27.

heard of being replaced by a lot of other people I had not heard of. But

:53:28.:53:32.

maybe that is my mistake. Maybe he has strengthened his position there.

:53:33.:53:39.

Clearly it is a mess but I thought that the coverage of it, of "This is

:53:40.:53:45.

a mess of messes", I don't think people really care how long it

:53:46.:53:51.

takes. Did he set out to fire Hilary Benn? I'm sure he did and he wasn't

:53:52.:53:56.

able to because he would have lost too many other members of the Shadow

:53:57.:54:00.

Cabinet and I think Patrick is absolutely right - he may have

:54:01.:54:03.

strengthened his position in his party, or asserted some kind of

:54:04.:54:07.

authority, but he has weakened his position with the electorate, which

:54:08.:54:09.

is, in the end, what matters with political parties and it was totemic

:54:10.:54:13.

of whether or not Labour is really there to win power or as a protest

:54:14.:54:18.

group and I think Jeremy Corbyn really is showing he's on the

:54:19.:54:19.

protest group side of really is showing he's on the

:54:20.:54:22.

rather than the potential government side. We shall take it from there.

:54:23.:54:29.

If there are any more Shadow ministers or government ministers

:54:30.:54:31.

who would like to resign, you know where we are.

:54:32.:54:34.

Now it's time to find out the answer to our quiz.

:54:35.:54:37.

The question was, which politician has decided to join the likes

:54:38.:54:39.

of Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson and host their own radio phone-in?

:54:40.:54:42.

I think we can count at Donald Trump but who is it? It is Alex Salmond.

:54:43.:54:58.

Absolutely right. Yes, the former first minister

:54:59.:55:02.

of Scotland Alex Salmond is the latest politician

:55:03.:55:04.

to willingly put himself in front of the microphone and take

:55:05.:55:06.

on the callers at LBC. That is a London talk station but

:55:07.:55:11.

can be heard throughout the country via satellite.

:55:12.:55:13.

He says he's going to stop biting his tongue and start shooting

:55:14.:55:16.

from the hip, which is a surprise to those of us who've been listening

:55:17.:55:20.

Let's have a look at him promoting the new show, reading out some

:55:21.:55:24.

Mr Paul Robinson says, "Alex Salmond has Fuzzy Felt eyebrows".

:55:25.:55:33.

"Wish I had a device that instantly zaps all

:55:34.:55:36.

sound from the radio whenever Alex Salmond's irritating

:55:37.:55:38.

"If Alex Salmond was chocolate, it'd be dark and bitter".

:55:39.:55:48.

I actually like plain chocolate Bounty, myself.

:55:49.:55:51.

That was Alex Salmond promoting his new slot on LBC.

:55:52.:55:58.

It'll be taking place during Iain Dale's drivetime show,

:55:59.:56:00.

Do you have any idea what you have unleashed tear? I think we do,

:56:01.:56:13.

actually. He is loving the commercials. I think is going to be

:56:14.:56:20.

natural. He has done a lot of phone-ins. Boris Johnson and Nigel

:56:21.:56:23.

Farage are doing at the moment. Nick Clegg was the first but probably is

:56:24.:56:27.

the most famous. We are hoping to do for Alex Salmond what we did for

:56:28.:56:31.

Nick Clegg, reduce the party from 57 to eight seats. But he's a natural

:56:32.:56:39.

broadcaster. He is a natural broadcaster and he is going to have

:56:40.:56:44.

a view on anything. He shoots from the hip and I think he is going to

:56:45.:56:48.

be quite entertaining. He kind of gives the impression that he is now

:56:49.:56:52.

off the leash. He is free of the reins. But he is actually the

:56:53.:56:57.

party's foreign affairs spokesman in the House of Commons so he could

:56:58.:57:03.

have a view hostages to fortune. He is but he also asks more questions

:57:04.:57:06.

in the House of Commons than I think any other MP on a whole range of

:57:07.:57:10.

issues so he is going to have an opinion on any thing. He says he is

:57:11.:57:14.

going to take the caller Matt Busby is back to the House of Commons,

:57:15.:57:19.

rather like Jeremy Corbyn does,. -- the callers' views.

:57:20.:57:33.

Somebody said on Twitter the other day that LBC's Monica is leading

:57:34.:57:36.

Briton's conversation because we are a national station now, not just

:57:37.:57:40.

London. But I think we are going to change it for this half-hour and be

:57:41.:57:43.

caught leaving Briton's conversation. You might confuse

:57:44.:57:48.

people about the European Union. Are you going to tune in? Certainly. I

:57:49.:57:54.

think it will be great fun. It is a really interesting way for

:57:55.:57:57.

politicians to reach out to ordinary voters and somehow bypass all of us

:57:58.:58:00.

mainstream media, as Jeremy Corbyn likes to call us. But I think it can

:58:01.:58:05.

work quite well for them. I thought Nick Clegg and Boris Johnson had

:58:06.:58:11.

both benefited from doing it. In the end, the so-called gaffes don't

:58:12.:58:13.

matter if people look like human beings. We like to think we know

:58:14.:58:18.

what questions should be asked of politicians but the general public

:58:19.:58:20.

often have a much better view of what should be asked.

:58:21.:58:29.

You going to find a few minutes? There's a sort of menacing gravitas

:58:30.:58:32.

that he has. You always feel like he is about to lash out. When does it

:58:33.:58:38.

start? Wednesday at 4pm on LBC. We will look forward to it.

:58:39.:58:42.

Thanks to Rachel, Patrick and all my guests.

:58:43.:58:45.

I'll be back on BBC One at 11am on Sunday with the Sunday Politics,

:58:46.:58:49.

When I will be joined by the shadow education secretary, Lucy power.

:58:50.:58:55.

Jo will be here on BBC Two on Monday with more

:58:56.:58:59.

Andrew Neil with the latest political news and debate from Westminster, including the decision to scrap an inquiry into banking culture, a new party hoping to represent unionists in Scotland, and the first in a new series looking at the great offices of state beginning with that of home secretary. Andrew is joined by Rachel Sylvester of The Times and Patrick Cockburn of The Independent.


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