15/01/2016 Daily Politics


15/01/2016

Andrew Neil with the latest political news, interviews and debate. He is joined by journalists Tom Newton Dunn and Gaby Hinsliff for the latest from Westminster.


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Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:37.:00:38.

George Osborne says the UK's referendum on EU membership

:00:39.:00:40.

The Chancellor says it would be unrealistic to a think

:00:41.:00:47.

And is it likely to swing the public in favour of voting to stay in?

:00:48.:00:59.

There's been criticism of the inquiry into allegations

:01:00.:01:01.

of abuse, torture and unlawful killing of Iraqis

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We'll speak to a former military chief and a lawyer acting

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We'll be speaking to the newest party to field candidates

:01:08.:01:12.

in this year's elections, and they claim they'll cause trouble

:01:13.:01:15.

Absolutely, let's be radical, let's shake things up.

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And the SNP head through the final frontier as MPs debate the British

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All that in the next hour and with us for the duration two

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of what the BBC's Department of Cliches still likes to call

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Even though it's more than a decade since the last news organisation

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And if you find these two there it's most likely they've just skived

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Yes it's Guardian columnist Gaby Hinsliff and Sun political

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First today, let's talk about Labour's review

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It's been making waves because the party is beginning

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the process of reassessing whether it should continue

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to support the renewal of Britain's Trident

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At present the party is officially in favour,

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but leader Jeremy Corbyn, along with his new Shadow Defence

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Secretary Emily Thornberry, are in favour of unilateral nuclear

:02:27.:02:28.

Well, we had thought that Emily Thornberry would be aided

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in her review by the former London mayor Ken Livingstone,

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another critic of renewing the Trident system.

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Carole Walker can tell us whether that is still the case. I understand

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Ken Livingstone will not be doing what we thought he would be? He does

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not have a formal rebuke... Roll on the defence review any more. He says

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he is happy with that, he is happy with Emily Thornbury to lead it. She

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has been doing that this morning, setting out terms of reference about

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how the review will be conducted. We have the suggestion from Ken

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Livingstone earlier in the week that the issue of Trident could be done

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and dusted within eight to ten weeks, which raised quite a few

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eyebrows, not least between Labour MPs. I am told that is not the case,

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Trident will be looked at as part of a much wider review of how defence

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policy will work under Labour, and it could take many months. Although

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Emily Thornbury is hoping to have at least an interim proposal to put to

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the party conference in the autumn. Ken Livingstone insists he is happy

:03:52.:03:57.

about this, he says he suggested it. He has a wider role on this review

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of something that he called Britain's place in the world, which

:04:02.:04:08.

looks at foreign affairs as well. The defence review will feed into

:04:09.:04:13.

this, but Ken Livingstone will not be involved in that defence review

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getting under way at the moment. It sounds like Emily Thornberry has

:04:21.:04:25.

parked her tanks on Ken Livingstone's lawn? Ken Livingstone

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insists that he and she are in complete agreement, he is very busy,

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he has his role on the NEC and various other tasks. I think the key

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fact is that both he and Emily Thornberry agree on the Trident

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nuclear system. They both think it is not what written should be

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spending money on at the moment. Of course, that is what party leader

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Jeremy Corbyn things. It is not what the majority of his MPs believed.

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What will be interesting is when they come to this whole defence

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review, which will be taking submissions from the public and also

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military figures, academics and so on, as to exactly what it comes up

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with and whether it can formulate a policy which meets what Emily

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Thornberry, Ken Livingstone and Jeremy Corbyn believed. I understand

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Ken Livingstone will still be co-convenor with the Shadow Foreign

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Secretary, Hilary Benn, on a wider policy review entitled Britain In

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The World. Hilary Benn And Ken Livingstone, That Sounds Like A

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Marriage Made In Heaven?! It Could Be interesting, they clearly have

:05:35.:05:37.

different views on lots of issues. Ken Livingstone was probably pretty

:05:38.:05:42.

happy to allow Emily Thornberry to carry out the defence review, they

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are pretty much an agreement on just about everything. This wider review

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has yet to get under way, but I think the co-convening of Hilary

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Benn and Ken Livingstone could be one to watch. Thanks for that and

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for struggling through the wind. It looks like a beautiful day, cold,

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chilly but clear blue skies in London this morning. Let's begin

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with the Trident review. It looks like it is still happening, the

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direction of travel is still towards Labour not wanting to renew Trident.

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It will take a lot longer? I don't think anyone is exactly on the edge

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of their sea to find out the answer of this review, we know what Jeremy

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Corbyn once, we know that Emily Thornberry has been put in to

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deliver it. We know the short term timetable is unrealistic. Labour MPs

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are saying there is not even a proper consultation, you at least

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have to pretend you are going through the motions. There is no

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need, necessarily, to be there before the Parliamentary vote. And

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only an interim report to the party conference. Most of us thought that

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by the next party conference it would vote in line with Mr Corbyn

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peers view not to renew Trident, that may not happen? This is Jeremy

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Corbyn's people accepting reality. At the beginning of the week there

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were people like Ian Nichol, the party general secretary, saying that

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conference decides what the policy is on Trident. At the moment, we are

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a party in favour of keeping Trident. The short-term wig fix was

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never really going to work. The far bigger problem is that we expect the

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Government to put a vote on Trident this summer. By the time it gets to

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Conference, Trident will effectively be renewed. And Mr Livingstone, it

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is hard not to see this as a clear demotion, he has been sidelined? I

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think what Ken Livingstone wants is to be back in the middle of public

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life. I interviewed him just before Christmas and he was clearly

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thrilled to be centre of attention again. I don't think he will be

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bothered about how he is the centre of attention, if he is not on the

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defence review, I am fairly sure he will find ways to be out there and

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influence. He wields an increasing amount of influence

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behind-the-scenes. Lots of people in Corbyn Bliss offers our old

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Livingstone staffers, I think you want to watch what Ken Livingstone

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is doing in the background -- in Corbyn's office. Jeremy Corbyn put

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Mr Livingstone as a co-convenor of the defence review, along with the

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then Shadow Defence Secretary Miss Eagle. It would seem pretty clear

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that Emily Thornberry has laid down the law on this, she did not want to

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continue with Mr Livingstone in-lap 's vision? I would not necessarily

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buy that. She does not want Trident to go ahead. If you are Jeremy

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Corbyn, that is all that matters. You need a senior Labour figure

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co-convening the review that does not like Trident. If you have Emily

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Thornbury, why do you need Ken Livingstone? Jeremy Corbyn is wising

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up a bit, rather than taking his party head-on, he is going around

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it. The whole Cabinet reshuffle was about not taking the party head-on.

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He is very tactical in that regard. If you see is a formidable roadblock

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ahead, he either slows down and does not hate it all goes around it.

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Which is different to the first three months, charged straight up

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the mountain, now you can go around it and achieve the same thing. We

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will speak to Mr Livingstone on the Sunday politics. But we were told he

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would not give us an interview, so you can read into that what you

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want. Let's talk about a story in and out

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of the news over the last few weeks, to do with the conduct of British

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soldiers in the Iraq war. Nearly 300 veterans of the conflict

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have been contacted by investigators looking into allegations

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of war crimes. The Iraq Historic Allegations Team

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was set up in 2010 to investigate claims of murder, abuse

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and torture of Iraqis. Some MPs and former forces chiefs,

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as you perhaps might expect, aren't happy with the scope

:10:05.:10:07.

of the inquiry and Defence Secretary Michael Fallon has criticised

:10:08.:10:10.

the role of ambulance-chasing British law firms in

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bringing cases forward. Here's the former Security Minister

:10:13.:10:17.

and First Sea Alan West speaking It's outrageous the way

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we are chasing the men and women who have been trying to protect us

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many many years later, And also the fact, and if I can

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ask the noble Minister, can we not do an urgent

:10:32.:10:36.

investigation into firms of solicitors who I know use agents

:10:37.:10:39.

in Iraq, and no doubt will in the future in Afghanistan,

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to effectively ambulance chase And we are seeing constantly these

:10:45.:10:48.

costing immense amounts of money. They cause mental anguish

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to our men and women, so it affects this issue

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we are talking about, and we really do need

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to get a grip of this. There has, as the noble

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Lord rightly points out, been extensive coverage

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and publicity of this very issue in the press in recent weeks

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and I share his concern. The fact of the matter is, though,

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it isn't the government It is that, every time

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there is a complaint raised, we have a duty to

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investigate that complaint. It is not hounding the armed forces

:11:21.:11:25.

personnel, but rather trying to get to the bottom of the complaint

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as quickly as possible, and indeed many of these

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complaints have been found But I share his concern

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about the behaviour We're also joined from Birmingham

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by Bethany Shiner from Public Interest Lawyers,

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one of the law firms representing alleged victims of abuse

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by British forces. Alan West, if British soldiers have

:11:50.:12:06.

broken the law, shouldn't they face the consequences? Absolutely, they

:12:07.:12:09.

should, it is a question of balance as to how much this is looked into,

:12:10.:12:14.

how long it goes on for and how we look after them. These are young

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men, often very frightened, scared, in danger of their lives, they often

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need the benefit of the doubt and to be looked after. Wouldn't that be

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taken into account in a proper legal process? Ex-soldiers are getting

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letters through the post, I know this because people have been in

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contact, accusing them of things, they are being asked things on the

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doorstep they are getting very little support, they are frightened,

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some of them have PTSD... PTSD? Post-traumatic stress syndrome.

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We're not looking after them. The inquiry showed is that some of these

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things are difficult. They said that a lot of the charges were without

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foundation, I think the statement by the man who did the inquiry, it was

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deliberate lies, reckless speculation and hostility to the

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man. I think they got this balance wrong. There is no doubt, we know,

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for example, that there was a man who works for the British Government

:13:15.:13:19.

and also for some of these lawyers, he went around and one of the

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distressed widows said, he came to my door and said, but, you can get a

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money. Bethany Shiner, our British law companies employing Iraqis to

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drum up business in Iraq? Unfortunately, this is the subject

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of an SRA investigation. What is the SRA? Solicitors Regulatory

:13:42.:13:50.

Authority, which are investigating following an MoD commissioned report

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into such conduct. I am unable to comment much more than to say that

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it is absolutely proper and appropriate that all of these

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allegations are properly investigated in accordance with the

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rule of law, and to say that public interest lawyers, and I'm sure the

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other law form would say the same, do nothing but Edfors the role of

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law. I was not asking you to comment, I was asking a factual

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question, our British law companies like yourselves and others employing

:14:26.:14:33.

Iraqis to go around and try to find people who may have a grievance

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against British troops? A comment much more than to say...

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That is a factual question. We deny such allegations. You don't employ

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Iraqis agents? We do not employ Iraqi agents to conduct themselves

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in any way outside the bounds of the law. But you do employ Iraqi agents?

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I cannot comment more than what I've already said. I think what I've said

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is quite clear. This list is authority have put before the

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disciplinary trust and 99% of those cases are then taken further. But

:15:16.:15:17.

that's not the case of public interest lawyers? It should be

:15:18.:15:24.

happening in the next few weeks. Just to clarify, I understand about

:15:25.:15:28.

not being able to comment on these proceedings, but another law firm

:15:29.:15:31.

you are involved in, have been referred to these lizard is

:15:32.:15:36.

regulatory authority and onto the tribunal which means they going to

:15:37.:15:39.

be investigated. You have been referred to the SRA, but not yet to

:15:40.:15:44.

the tribunal. Is that correct? Correct. Is that the next stage? How

:15:45.:15:52.

long do have to wait to find out if that's happening? That would be mere

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speculation for me to say. What I would like to say, though, we are

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very concerned about how the focus is suddenly shifted onto the lawyers

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and we see that this is a mechanism to try and deflect the public

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attention away from the wrongs, away from very serious questions which

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need to be asked and answered by the government to instead scapegoat

:16:18.:16:22.

these issues, scapegoat the attention onto these lawyers. All

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right. Scapegoating the lawyers? I don't think we are. I think we are

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swinging it back in the right direction because there seems to be

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a oration of the industry trying to bring complaints about British

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soldiers before British courts and it seems like it's gone out of

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kilter. It's right thing should be investigated. We know nasty things

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happen sometimes. Generally, our people behave very well and it had

:16:50.:16:53.

gone out of kilter and it's wrong for law firms to genuinely send

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people out to get trade and there's no doubt this investigation by the

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solicitors regulation authority has discovered things they are concerned

:17:02.:17:06.

about. It will be interested to see what happened to the Public interest

:17:07.:17:10.

lawyers, but I am concerned about that. It happens in numbers of areas

:17:11.:17:14.

now for people to look upon actions which happen in war in places like

:17:15.:17:19.

Iraq and Afghanistan as if you are having a summer day in Hyde Park and

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address it and hide Park in that way, and it's not. These are

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difficult circumstances. The Second World War, the Korean War, you could

:17:29.:17:32.

provide thousands of cases. We have to get the right balance.

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Particularly in Iraq, when we were in a war of our making, that we

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chose to wage, on a country we chose to invade, it wasn't planning to

:17:46.:17:51.

invade us, this was not Britain, 1939, 1940, that it is incumbent on

:17:52.:17:55.

our troops who are there that they behave to the highest possible

:17:56.:17:58.

standards given the circumstances of the war. I could not disagree with

:17:59.:18:02.

that but I think the balance has got slightly wrong and these young men

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and now women are out there really doing the work for us and I think

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there was an element that we have to look after them as well as ensure

:18:12.:18:17.

these other things happen. Your firm is representing over 1000 cases, I

:18:18.:18:21.

think, involving British military. How much vetting, what kind of

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betting do you do to verify that these claims are genuine? There's a

:18:27.:18:30.

couple of things I'd like to say actually. Firstly, you are right we

:18:31.:18:36.

represent over 1000. We only take on credible allegations. There has not

:18:37.:18:44.

been any incidents, other than one enquiry, which found that there was

:18:45.:18:49.

ill-treatment, let's not forget there was ill-treatment, findings of

:18:50.:18:51.

ill-treatment of those detailed knees, other than that one instance,

:18:52.:18:55.

the High Court, the Court of Appeal, the Supreme Court, the European

:18:56.:19:00.

Court of Justice has not had any questions as to the credibility of

:19:01.:19:04.

any of our clients' allegations. Let me clarify a very important

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misconception when were talking about Iraq. As the public are

:19:11.:19:16.

forgetful to recall, the war stage was over within weeks. After that

:19:17.:19:22.

point, it was an occupation. The laws are governed by... If the

:19:23.:19:30.

international law which includes human rights law. The responsibility

:19:31.:19:36.

of any occupying power, especially in the instances of custody, is

:19:37.:19:43.

incredibly high. I understand. Let's remember, a lot of these cases are

:19:44.:19:48.

not just Babar Moussa cases, but the majority are people unlawfully

:19:49.:19:55.

detained. Horrifically treated. I understand the claims. I'm grateful

:19:56.:20:01.

for your clarification on the status post of hostilities, of the soldiers

:20:02.:20:08.

in Iraq, my question was, what work done to verify, given that have got

:20:09.:20:12.

over 1000 cases, what were to be done to verify that these claims are

:20:13.:20:17.

genuine because it would not be against human nature for some people

:20:18.:20:23.

to jump on a bandwagon, would it? Well, I shan't speculate, but human

:20:24.:20:28.

nature is human nature. I'm asking and other factual question. What

:20:29.:20:33.

actual work to do to verify the claims? We take supporting

:20:34.:20:37.

documentation first off, and that documentation is very important. It

:20:38.:20:45.

is disclosed to the MOD. The MoD has a lot more information and a lot

:20:46.:20:49.

more documentation than our clients do, but in any case, we disclose

:20:50.:20:52.

that information. Those documents include for example, certificates

:20:53.:21:00.

from the International Red Cross which prove the dates of the

:21:01.:21:04.

detention, it may include detention numbers, it may include photographs.

:21:05.:21:10.

Of course, witnesses to events. So we collect and process as much

:21:11.:21:15.

information as we can and that is shared with the MoD. Don't you ever

:21:16.:21:25.

have any doubts in some cases about what you're doing? The Iraq historic

:21:26.:21:28.

allegations team has done just what you're doing? The Iraq historic

:21:29.:21:32.

cases in five years, wrongdoings shown in just one of the 18. It

:21:33.:21:38.

resulted in a ?3000 fine. That was it. Nobody convicted. ?31 million

:21:39.:21:45.

public enquiry found there had been mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners but

:21:46.:21:47.

the most serious allegations including murder where wholly

:21:48.:21:54.

without foundation. Do we have any doubts about our work? In the light

:21:55.:22:02.

of what I just read it. Ala work is about upholding the rule of law full

:22:03.:22:06.

is our work is about accountability. Ala work is about representing

:22:07.:22:10.

people and don't just represent Iraqis but we represent soldiers, ex

:22:11.:22:14.

serving soldiers, and criminal soldiers as well, and ala work, no

:22:15.:22:22.

matter who the client, is about addressing the grievance, securing

:22:23.:22:25.

accountability, securing the truth, forcing the truth. What sort of fees

:22:26.:22:31.

do you charge for this work? We are legal firm. British taxpayers paid?

:22:32.:22:39.

We live in a very strong democracy. A democracy we should be proud of.

:22:40.:22:44.

Legal aid is very, very important. I understand. I just want to

:22:45.:22:48.

understand where the money is coming from and the answer is the British

:22:49.:22:53.

taxpayer. What you make of this? Legal aid for Iraqi, British

:22:54.:22:57.

taxpayers money, up to 1000 Iraqi citizens, there's a slight anomaly

:22:58.:23:01.

there for common sense. What your talking about here, the scenario she

:23:02.:23:08.

is presenting is, over ten years, ten years ago, there's been a vast

:23:09.:23:12.

cover-up of industrial scale abuse and mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners

:23:13.:23:19.

and citizens. I used to cover defence in Iraq on numerous

:23:20.:23:23.

occasions. Whenever there was an incidents, the police will

:23:24.:23:25.

investigate things that relate to the great upset other soldiers on

:23:26.:23:28.

the ground and maybe there's one or two things which are crap through

:23:29.:23:34.

which are there to be covered up. That's the nature of things.

:23:35.:23:38.

Certainly the nature of war. The idea industrial scale abuse has been

:23:39.:23:43.

covered up is nonsense. I can see why it's hard. Nobody wants a knock

:23:44.:23:47.

on the door ten years after that, Dick talk in war, the past coming

:23:48.:23:55.

back revisit you, but it is about how much support they offer them.

:23:56.:24:01.

Some of them have been left to their own devices. You are cut off

:24:02.:24:04.

especially if you have left the services. There is no help to go

:24:05.:24:08.

through this. Also the numbers and the delays, there are 1500 cases

:24:09.:24:12.

going through. With the best will in the world, that will take years.

:24:13.:24:17.

This result, I think people could tolerate it. We will either bear.

:24:18.:24:21.

We're going to move on. Bethany, thanks for joining us, did that the

:24:22.:24:26.

legal situation was difficult for you to be able to answer all of the

:24:27.:24:31.

questions. Thank you for joining us from Birmingham. We are holding you

:24:32.:24:34.

hostage, Admiral, because you want to talk about Trident. I think we

:24:35.:24:40.

are going to get Emily Thornbury, the new Shadow Defence Secretary

:24:41.:24:45.

making a statement on the Trident review this morning. I'm not sure if

:24:46.:24:49.

we have got that yet. We do, I'm told. It was made only a few moments

:24:50.:24:53.

ago. She is reconfiguring labours approach to its attitude towards

:24:54.:24:58.

Trident and the process by which it's going to be done. Let's hear

:24:59.:25:02.

what you had to say. This is going to be a wide-ranging review. We are

:25:03.:25:06.

going to looked all aspects of defence policy and clearly Trident

:25:07.:25:10.

is part of that and my views on the record, I'm extremely sceptical

:25:11.:25:14.

about Trident and I will not be afraid to answer difficult questions

:25:15.:25:17.

and I need to hear the evidence about it and I will then come to

:25:18.:25:21.

review. I go into this wanting to look at evidence before we make

:25:22.:25:26.

policy. She says she wants a look at evidence before she makes policy. We

:25:27.:25:30.

know that she historically and indeed currently she is against

:25:31.:25:38.

Britain renewing their deterrent. Yes, and I'm sure that's why she was

:25:39.:25:41.

put in her post I Jeremy Corbyn because of that. If she is genuinely

:25:42.:25:47.

going to listen to all the arguments, then I think that's good.

:25:48.:25:50.

I have no doubt at all in my own mind, but I think it needs a proper

:25:51.:25:55.

debate that we need a deterrent. We have done more than any other county

:25:56.:25:59.

to cut down the number of systems and warheads, everything, and it had

:26:00.:26:03.

no impact whatsoever on any other nations trying to get them and we

:26:04.:26:08.

are in a very dangerous world, but there's no doubt at the moment that

:26:09.:26:14.

Labour policy is that we should replace the submarines. We're not

:26:15.:26:19.

getting any deterrent, replacing them and that Labour policy in the

:26:20.:26:22.

manifesto. That has to go through conference. To be changed. Labour

:26:23.:26:27.

actually first gave our nation the deterrent. Under the Clement Attlee

:26:28.:26:32.

government. There was a period of time within Labour when people said

:26:33.:26:39.

let's get rid of it, let's go unilateralism. The early 1980s when,

:26:40.:26:43.

of course, it was disastrous. The British public believe in the

:26:44.:26:48.

deterrent, I think. If your party should change your end its historic

:26:49.:26:52.

commitment to Britain's nuclear deterrent, where would that leave

:26:53.:26:57.

you? I think if we said we were going to become unilateralist,

:26:58.:27:00.

particularly if the other parts of the policy, Ken Livingstone of

:27:01.:27:03.

course mentioned loosely not being a part of Nato... He was contradicted

:27:04.:27:10.

by Jeremy Corbyn's office. I find that quite worrying if he's going to

:27:11.:27:16.

be involved in our position in the world. Where would it leave you? I

:27:17.:27:23.

would not take believe the Labour whip. What I found over the years

:27:24.:27:30.

people who are anti-Trident, when they hear the arguments and see all

:27:31.:27:34.

of the issues, they realise, actually, although none of us like

:27:35.:27:39.

nuclear weapons, who on earth like nuclear weapons, but we need them

:27:40.:27:44.

pragmatically, I fear. OK, thanks for being with us today.

:27:45.:27:47.

Now let's talk about the referendum on Britain's membership of the EU.

:27:48.:27:53.

Yesterday one Cabinet Minister, Chris Grayling, declared that

:27:54.:27:58.

membership in its current form is disastrous and signalled

:27:59.:28:00.

that he would be a leading figure in the out campaign.

:28:01.:28:03.

Well, last night the Chancellor, George Osborne, described himself

:28:04.:28:05.

as a Eurosceptic, but said he was confident that David Cameron

:28:06.:28:09.

would secure a renegotiation deal that would allow him

:28:10.:28:12.

and the government to campaign to stay in the EU.

:28:13.:28:17.

Let's have a listen to Mr Osborne's exchange

:28:18.:28:19.

Do you think the referendum is going to settle it?

:28:20.:28:24.

You know, I think it will for at least a generation.

:28:25.:28:31.

Some people have talked about a second referendum

:28:32.:28:33.

This is the crucial decision of our lifetime.

:28:34.:28:44.

Do we stay in the European Union, a reformed European Union

:28:45.:28:47.

And you have another chance in negotiating...

:28:48.:28:52.

Anyone who votes out on the assumption that a year or two

:28:53.:28:55.

later you can have another vote to go back in, I think

:28:56.:28:58.

is being unrealistic about the nature of the choice.

:28:59.:29:01.

And I think it's really important the British people focus on the fact

:29:02.:29:04.

this is the once in a lifetime decision.

:29:05.:29:09.

So the Chancellor thinks this will be the only referendum on EU

:29:10.:29:11.

He described it as the crucial decision.

:29:12.:29:27.

He was responding to the idea floated by the out campaign that,

:29:28.:29:31.

in the event of Britain voting to leave there could be a second

:29:32.:29:34.

referendum on whether to accept the new relationship with the EU.

:29:35.:29:39.

But, of course, the Government has already legislated to allow

:29:40.:29:42.

for a further referendum should there be any transfer of powers

:29:43.:29:44.

The so-called referendum lock, passed back in 2011,

:29:45.:29:55.

came after David Cameron said, "Never again should it be possible

:29:56.:29:58.

for a British government to transfer power to the EU without the say

:29:59.:30:01.

The act provided for a referendum throughout the United Kingdom on any

:30:02.:30:16.

With treaty changes expected within the next few years

:30:17.:30:22.

as Eurozone countries head for further unification,

:30:23.:30:31.

that means that even if the UK votes to stay in it may not be the final

:30:32.:30:35.

time voters are asked to go to the polls over Europe.

:30:36.:30:42.

Well, we're joined now by the Conservative MEP Dan Hannan.

:30:43.:30:48.

Welcome. Let's peeled this bit by bit. First of all, the idea that we

:30:49.:31:00.

could vote no in the upcoming referendum, Europe would take

:31:01.:31:05.

fright, give us a turn of things we had not even asked for and we would

:31:06.:31:11.

have on that. Is that a credible scenario? We have both been around

:31:12.:31:16.

long enough to see what happens when there is a no vote. In Denmark,

:31:17.:31:22.

Ireland, France. We both know that Brussels does not take no for an

:31:23.:31:27.

answer, at least not the first time. I am not saying a second referendum,

:31:28.:31:32.

but I think that if we vote no, that is when they will take seriously and

:31:33.:31:35.

proper concessions will be on the table. That if we vote to stay, that

:31:36.:31:41.

is it. You think they will ask us again? At that stage we have

:31:42.:31:45.

acquiesced in the whole coming project. We have asked them to carry

:31:46.:31:50.

on integrating. If they will not make series concessions before the

:31:51.:31:53.

referendum, and much and how they will treat us after we vote to stay?

:31:54.:31:59.

-- imagine how they will. Do you think there is a possibility of

:32:00.:32:03.

Europe saying, don't go, let's look at this again and have another

:32:04.:32:07.

referendum? All of the conversations I have had for years in Brussels

:32:08.:32:10.

suggest that in the event of Britain voting to leave, some sort of

:32:11.:32:13.

associate membership would quickly be put on the table, they have

:32:14.:32:19.

basically worked that out. The broad principles have been agreed by

:32:20.:32:22.

Federalists and antifederalists in Europe that we would have a free

:32:23.:32:27.

trade only membership. My job would disappear, we would not be members,

:32:28.:32:31.

but we would probably keep the bulk of the economic and financial links.

:32:32.:32:36.

Hasn't the government indicated that if it is a no vote, it applies to

:32:37.:32:40.

leave immediately under article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, and that just

:32:41.:32:46.

sets the train on the tracks? But what do we mean by leave? It is very

:32:47.:32:50.

important to stress there is a common market in Europe that

:32:51.:32:56.

embraces EU and non-EU countries, it runs from non-EU Iceland to non-EU

:32:57.:33:01.

Turkey, there are no tariffs, no trade barriers within that area.

:33:02.:33:05.

Nobody is talking about Britain leaving that. We are talking about

:33:06.:33:10.

withdrawing from the political institutions in Brussels and getting

:33:11.:33:13.

a looser relationship. I would have hoped that Cameron would have

:33:14.:33:18.

negotiated that amicably as part of these talks. Since that has not

:33:19.:33:22.

happened and we are getting the same deal, as even Alan Johnson admitted

:33:23.:33:26.

on Newsnight yesterday, the leader of the Labour yes campaign, it is

:33:27.:33:31.

clear that the only way we can get that slightly looser deal is by

:33:32.:33:36.

voting to leave. Can we move onto an act that I think a lot of people

:33:37.:33:40.

forgotten about, the European Referendum 2011, part of the

:33:41.:33:49.

coalition agreement in 2010. If we vote to stay in in the upcoming

:33:50.:33:54.

in-out referendum, and nevertheless because of the needs of the Eurozone

:33:55.:33:58.

there is quite substantial Treaty change around 2020, maybe 2021, as

:33:59.:34:06.

the law stands, is it your understanding that we would need

:34:07.:34:08.

another referendum on that treaty change? That had been mine and

:34:09.:34:13.

everyone else's until I heard the Chancellor last night. By the way,

:34:14.:34:19.

it is when, not if. It is clear that the rest of the EU will go... By the

:34:20.:34:25.

way, it is very clear that we will be dragged into quite a lot of that

:34:26.:34:28.

even if we are not in the euro. And the reporters what needs to be done

:34:29.:34:32.

in the Eurozone and the relationship with the non-Eurozone Busta gulp it

:34:33.:34:42.

talks about fiscal harmonisation. It is the question of when that

:34:43.:34:47.

happens. I had assumed that we would have another referendum. Not an

:34:48.:34:55.

in-out referendum? A referendum effectively blocking a future... The

:34:56.:35:01.

type that Ireland has? Ireland, Denmark. You have to listen to what

:35:02.:35:06.

ministers are saying, what George said in your clip. Are they trying

:35:07.:35:11.

to get a mandate now we were to vote to stay in that would effectively

:35:12.:35:16.

carry us through? We voted for the big principle of the thing, we don't

:35:17.:35:25.

need any future votes. But the Referendum Act that establishes the

:35:26.:35:29.

referendum we are about to have did not repeal the 2011 act, and I have

:35:30.:35:34.

not heard any ministers say that in the event of a vote to stay in that

:35:35.:35:41.

they will repeal the 2011 act? This is a political rather than a legal

:35:42.:35:45.

way of tackling it. We have already seen since the 2011 act came into

:35:46.:35:50.

effect quite substantive transfers of power from Westminster to

:35:51.:35:54.

Brussels, particularly in the field of criminal Justice and home

:35:55.:35:58.

affairs, which didn't trigger... A clever lawyer can usually find a way

:35:59.:36:01.

of saying this does not involve the kind of treaty... There was an

:36:02.:36:08.

unquestionable treaty change to do with a respective legalisation of

:36:09.:36:11.

the bailouts, clever Government lawyers said it did not trigger the

:36:12.:36:15.

act. We are gearing up for the Government saying, if we get a vote

:36:16.:36:20.

to remain in, we will treat that as a mandate for a generation, forget

:36:21.:36:25.

ever voting again. When we go to vote, we can vote to leave and there

:36:26.:36:28.

will be the beginning of a new round of talks, if we vote this day, that

:36:29.:36:33.

is it, gone forever, we are on that bus and we will not be able to get

:36:34.:36:40.

off it. Had you forgotten about the 2011 act? It is engraved on my

:36:41.:36:43.

memory forever more excavation Marco did not take the same thing from a

:36:44.:36:47.

George Osborne interview that Dan Hannan did. He says it is not like

:36:48.:36:53.

haggling in the souk, they will not chase you with a better offer. I

:36:54.:36:59.

don't think saying there is no more in-out referendum 's is the same as

:37:00.:37:02.

saying there is no more referenda ever about anything. Of course there

:37:03.:37:06.

will be issues further along the line, do we want this, that all the

:37:07.:37:12.

other, that is not the same as saying that somehow we have changed

:37:13.:37:18.

our approach completely. Not one, not two, maybe three European

:37:19.:37:21.

referenda in the next couple of years? We have not had enough in

:37:22.:37:26.

recent times! We have had one every year, every six months. There were

:37:27.:37:30.

two flaws in George Osborne Haas interview, one with his complete

:37:31.:37:34.

inability to say by how much migration would be stopped by David

:37:35.:37:39.

Cameron 's four-year ban on benefits and new arrivals. The next one was

:37:40.:37:43.

definitely no second in-out referendum. He has absolutely no way

:37:44.:37:49.

at all of knowing that. There are no rules written down anywhere about

:37:50.:37:54.

why you can't have a second in out. The question for Darren and those

:37:55.:37:58.

who want to be out, how do you know they're definitely will be a second

:37:59.:38:01.

in-out referendum if we voted no for yes. You don't. That is the key

:38:02.:38:09.

point, there are unknown 's and risks both ways. There are known

:38:10.:38:17.

unknowns and there are black swans. The EU does not readily accepts a no

:38:18.:38:20.

vote, we have seen that every single time. We can reasonably draw

:38:21.:38:25.

inferences. But there are huge risks in staying in, not only in terms of

:38:26.:38:30.

migration but in terms of the continuing euro crisis, the way we

:38:31.:38:33.

will be dragged into more euro bailouts. One known unknown is that

:38:34.:38:39.

if we stay in, how much more of this federalism and the costs will be

:38:40.:38:44.

applied to us. If we stay out, we can get a trade... Finally on this,

:38:45.:38:50.

because we will have plenty of time to argue the pros and cons on the

:38:51.:38:55.

substantive issue, it is clear that the Prime Minister will lead the

:38:56.:39:02.

staying campaign. The -- there needs no ghost come from the grave to

:39:03.:39:08.

Telesis. You need someone to an capsular the outer campaign, who

:39:09.:39:15.

should be? We don't need a single person, in the AV campaign, the

:39:16.:39:19.

regional devolution referenda, there was no single figurehead. I think

:39:20.:39:24.

there will be a coalition of business figures, financiers, trade

:39:25.:39:27.

unionists, ordinary citizens, professional associations. If Boris

:39:28.:39:35.

or Theresa May... Boris and Theresa May... Every army needs a general.

:39:36.:39:43.

In the Scottish referendum, was it wise, looking back from the Unionist

:39:44.:39:46.

point of view, to make Alistair Darling the sole spokesman? They

:39:47.:39:49.

slipped ten points during the campaign. Nurturing the campaign,

:39:50.:39:57.

but they did win... This is a campaign of an elite of politicians,

:39:58.:40:02.

big businesses, megabanks, against the general population. Who does the

:40:03.:40:05.

final debate with the Prime Minister? That would emerge during

:40:06.:40:10.

the campaign, that I don't think there should be one person doing all

:40:11.:40:15.

the reports from our site. It will be Chris Grayling? No idea, it will

:40:16.:40:16.

be whoever is best. Now, since MPs voted in favour

:40:17.:40:19.

of extending British air strikes against the so-called Islamic State

:40:20.:40:22.

group from Iraq into Syria, we've been bringing you regular

:40:23.:40:24.

updates on what sort of impact, according to the Ministry

:40:25.:40:27.

of Defence, they've been having. And it was notable that

:40:28.:40:29.

since the bombing campaign was extended at the beginning

:40:30.:40:31.

of December, the RAF hadn't used the Brimstone missile,

:40:32.:40:34.

which you may remember was put forward as a key reason why

:40:35.:40:36.

the international coalition wanted So what's happened in

:40:37.:40:38.

the last few days? On Sunday the RAF carried out

:40:39.:40:45.

four missions, including using a Brimstone missile

:40:46.:40:48.

for the first time to destroy a supply truck near the Isis

:40:49.:40:51.

stronghold of Raqqa in Syria. The next day, on Monday,

:40:52.:40:57.

an RAF Reaper drone flew the 1,000th sortie of its type since

:40:58.:41:00.

they were committed to operations On Tuesday evening

:41:01.:41:06.

RAF aircraft joined other coalition jets

:41:07.:41:10.

in a strike on Mosul, I saw that the Americans may have

:41:11.:41:29.

taken it some ices funds, Lou up the dollars, in other words, or at least

:41:30.:41:33.

that is what it claims. -- Lou up the dollars.

:41:34.:41:35.

At oilfields in eastern Syria they destroyed a mechanical

:41:36.:41:37.

And in Al-Hasakah in North East Syria RAF jets targeted

:41:38.:41:40.

Well, the man we turn to keep us up to speed on this is our defence

:41:41.:41:45.

Jonathan, does this represent an uptake in activity, or is it pretty

:41:46.:41:57.

much on a par with what we have had for several months? I think there

:41:58.:42:01.

has been an uptake in act that he ever since those extra typhoons were

:42:02.:42:07.

sent and two tornadoes were sent to Akrotiri. There has been a surge of

:42:08.:42:13.

activity over Syria, whether that is because of a military priority or

:42:14.:42:17.

political is a moot point, I think. If you look at the use of the

:42:18.:42:22.

brimstone, which had not been used, as you mentioned, since the campaign

:42:23.:42:26.

started in Syria, they were used to hate mobile cranes in an oilfield.

:42:27.:42:30.

You could probably have used a different type of bond to do that

:42:31.:42:36.

stop to make sure they Brimstone. I think the focus is still in Iraq. I

:42:37.:42:41.

think the attack on the secret police headquarters by the RAF that

:42:42.:42:46.

you mentioned by the Pentagon, the US and four against the cache

:42:47.:42:49.

storage facility, otherwise known as the bank, to make sure they can't

:42:50.:42:53.

give money to their fighters. You could see that the focus, the

:42:54.:43:00.

military focus, is on the shaping up operation around Mosul. That will

:43:01.:43:04.

clearly be the next target for the Iraqi security forces. They do not

:43:05.:43:07.

give a timetable this time because they said it would last year and

:43:08.:43:12.

they did not. Suspicious folk will be wondering how much of a PR

:43:13.:43:18.

element to bear is in this. There has been talk on how the Brimstone

:43:19.:43:24.

was not used, in our Britain -- briefing we were told the Brimstone

:43:25.:43:30.

was used to take out a truck. That is a very expensive way of taking

:43:31.:43:36.

out a truck. The missile alone costs over ?100,000? It is an expensive

:43:37.:43:42.

weapons system with a radar on front to track and make sure it hits its

:43:43.:43:47.

target, it can hit a target moving at 70 mph, I don't whether the truck

:43:48.:43:52.

was moving at 70 mph, I doubt whether mobile cranes in the

:43:53.:43:56.

oilfields were. But they have used it and clearly there was political

:43:57.:44:01.

pressure. People have been asking, not least yourself, why the RAF had

:44:02.:44:05.

not fired any Brimstone missiles. The focus has returned to Mosul.

:44:06.:44:10.

What has happened in Mosul, with the strike by the Americans on that

:44:11.:44:16.

bank, the cash storage facility, there were private briefings from

:44:17.:44:21.

military officials, US military officials, that there would probably

:44:22.:44:26.

be civilian casualties. What we have not had, obviously, from Britain,

:44:27.:44:30.

ministers, the RAF, is any admission of civilian casualties. There has

:44:31.:44:34.

not even an ad campaign in which there have not been civilian

:44:35.:44:38.

casualties. I think there will be more scrutiny of this, as yet we

:44:39.:44:42.

have had no confirmation of any civilian casualties. One final

:44:43.:44:48.

question Jonathan, it might be hard to answer, is there anything you can

:44:49.:44:52.

tell us about what is going on on the ground with coalition British

:44:53.:44:57.

allied forces? We talk about the our war, we can monitor that and so on,

:44:58.:45:01.

but is there any sense that specialist forces act that is on the

:45:02.:45:06.

ground are increasing as well? The great thing about the SAS is people

:45:07.:45:12.

can write what they like about them, they have been in Afghanistan,

:45:13.:45:15.

Libya, everywhere. They have not been in Afghanistan recently. They

:45:16.:45:20.

have been doing stuff around Iraq and Syria. The difference between

:45:21.:45:24.

the Americans and Brits is the Americans say, yes, US special

:45:25.:45:28.

forces, they have admitted this, are going in. We have not had any

:45:29.:45:33.

comment at all from Britain as to what the SAS are doing. The SAS, we

:45:34.:45:38.

know there are other British troops doing training in facilities around

:45:39.:45:45.

Baghdad, mostly focused on IEDs, that is a massive threat in Ramadi,

:45:46.:45:49.

they are also training the Peshmerga -- Peshmerga. But no comment at all

:45:50.:45:54.

about what the SAS special forces are doing. Thank you.

:45:55.:46:00.

Now, it's one of Britain's newest political parties and it's hoping

:46:01.:46:02.

to make an impact in May's elections across England,

:46:03.:46:04.

But to do that, the Women's Equality Party needs some cash and last night

:46:05.:46:09.

it held a fundraiser in Central London.

:46:10.:46:12.

We sent our Ellie along to see what it was all about.

:46:13.:46:19.

NEWSREEL: A fundraising sale organised by the Tory

:46:20.:46:21.

This is how they used to do it in the 1970s.

:46:22.:46:26.

Party political fundraising at its most ladylike.

:46:27.:46:30.

I enjoy working for the Conservative party obviously.

:46:31.:46:33.

Last night's fundraiser was ladylike too.

:46:34.:46:36.

So I've been given 15 minutes and I was thinking what shall I do?

:46:37.:46:42.

Obviously, it would take longer with my skills.

:46:43.:46:47.

It was largely a night of comedy with a serious message.

:46:48.:46:51.

If I had seen the Labour Party or the Tory Party or any other party

:46:52.:46:54.

Absolutely, let's be radical, let's shake things up.

:46:55.:47:03.

The thing about equality is that you need someone to make

:47:04.:47:10.

The idea of equality is everywhere but someone needs to come along,

:47:11.:47:14.

a bit like a mum, and make sure that that's actually happening and that

:47:15.:47:17.

all the rules are written down and everyone is playing nicely.

:47:18.:47:20.

And there were plenty of mums in the audience

:47:21.:47:22.

And those who, for various reasons, might describe

:47:23.:47:26.

What people think about feminists is they've got no sense of humour,

:47:27.:47:29.

they're extreme radical lesbians, which is also ridiculous

:47:30.:47:33.

because we know that there is a continuum.

:47:34.:47:36.

And I always used to say, you know, the problem is you've got your kind

:47:37.:47:40.

of extreme radical feminists there and you've got your kind

:47:41.:47:42.

of lipstick feminists there who still want to wear nice

:47:43.:47:44.

The problem is, I'm one of those but I look like one of those.

:47:45.:47:49.

People just need to be a little bit more forgiving.

:47:50.:47:53.

I think women have to be a bit cleverer really about how they,

:47:54.:47:57.

That's a bloody man interrupting again!

:47:58.:48:05.

The Women's Equality Party launched last March and is planning to field

:48:06.:48:12.

candidates in the Scottish, Welsh and London mayoral elections.

:48:13.:48:14.

They say they have 45,000 members, which is more than UKIP.

:48:15.:48:21.

I think any revolutionary out there should have a picture

:48:22.:48:24.

of Nigel Farage on their bedroom wall with, "If he can do it anyone

:48:25.:48:27.

There are plenty of people I understand who would like to see

:48:28.:48:33.

Do you know what, in the last election, I thought,

:48:34.:48:38.

I wonder if I would like to be Prime Minister?

:48:39.:48:40.

I phoned up and asked if I could look around the house

:48:41.:48:43.

You want to check the house out first, right?

:48:44.:48:46.

I think that's a very female approach actually.

:48:47.:48:49.

I want to see how big the bedrooms are.

:48:50.:48:52.

And Sophie Walker, leader of the Women's Equality Party,

:48:53.:48:55.

Why a separate party on this issue as opposed to fighting within the

:48:56.:49:08.

major parties to get this issue up the agenda? Because all of the other

:49:09.:49:15.

parties have competing priorities and they are simply unable to give

:49:16.:49:18.

this the attention that it needs. We've been waiting a very, very,

:49:19.:49:23.

very long time. The pace of change is clay seal and I think we needed

:49:24.:49:29.

to set this political party up to be able to speak for the thousands and

:49:30.:49:34.

thousands of people who are sick of living with gender inequality every

:49:35.:49:39.

day. -- Glace seal. Children going to school without role models, who

:49:40.:49:47.

want to see fully rounded role models. There's a to do something

:49:48.:49:51.

about this. If you don't win a single seat, which I think people

:49:52.:49:56.

might think is likely, doesn't that to your cause harm in the end? First

:49:57.:50:01.

of all, it's absolutely very likely we will win seats. As a huge amount

:50:02.:50:09.

of momentum behind us. We think we are contesting candidates for the

:50:10.:50:15.

Greater London assembly, also in Scotland and Wales and looking at

:50:16.:50:20.

the London mayoral election. Ala members will vote for candidates in

:50:21.:50:23.

the next couple of weeks. With this voting system, your not going to win

:50:24.:50:31.

any seats but hope to get some list under the PR system? I think we

:50:32.:50:36.

genuinely will win seats. The growth and the speed of the growth of this

:50:37.:50:41.

party has been really phenomenal. People have really had enough and I

:50:42.:50:46.

think the model also appeals to people because we are a nonpartisan

:50:47.:50:51.

political party, so we can come at this from two ways, firstly, saying

:50:52.:50:56.

to the other political parties, we want to help and find common ground.

:50:57.:51:01.

The traditional parties are still operating along this very

:51:02.:51:04.

old-fashioned, very combative model in which they feel a quality is

:51:05.:51:10.

something they have two each own it and decide who gets to give it out

:51:11.:51:14.

piece by piece, and we are saying it's really shouldn't work that way.

:51:15.:51:17.

People are joining from the Conservative, Lib Dems, labour and

:51:18.:51:22.

Ukip and saying to us, we are going to give you a boat to get this done

:51:23.:51:27.

to tell the other parties this needs to be at the top of their agenda. --

:51:28.:51:33.

vote. Why shouldn't the top of the agenda rather than being on it when

:51:34.:51:37.

the larger pay gaps in this country associated with ethnicity, religion,

:51:38.:51:44.

disability, even looks. There's a beauty premium established by a

:51:45.:51:53.

columnist. Why this one gap and not these are the gaps? Because this

:51:54.:51:56.

speaks right across all of the other stuff, too. We are speaking for

:51:57.:52:03.

women, which means also a quality for men, an economy which

:52:04.:52:07.

flourishes, a society which flourishes, everything works better

:52:08.:52:12.

this way and I think we are not saying we are a single issue party,

:52:13.:52:16.

but people don't live single issue lives. Talking up the economy, for

:52:17.:52:21.

example, there are 600,000 women in the country who would like to back

:52:22.:52:24.

to work if they could afford the health care and the childcare and

:52:25.:52:30.

the price of it means they can't. If we could get 10% of mothers who want

:52:31.:52:35.

to work into the workplace, ?1.5 billion a year in terms of

:52:36.:52:40.

additional tax revenues and in work benefits topping. Is this the right

:52:41.:52:46.

way to go? I think they've rarely tapped into something. I have every

:52:47.:52:50.

sympathy for giving the existing parties are put up the backside.

:52:51.:52:55.

Jeremy Corbyn 's Labour Party does not look terribly female friendly to

:52:56.:52:59.

be honest. He now has a majority of women in the Shadow Cabinet. None in

:53:00.:53:04.

his inner circle apart from Diane Abbott for the Lib Dems have been

:53:05.:53:08.

left for road kills others an opportunity there. The concern for

:53:09.:53:12.

me would be there is a real problem with becoming a Ukip of the

:53:13.:53:16.

centre-left, that the women's equality party takes lots of votes

:53:17.:53:20.

in areas where there's lots of like-minded sympathetic women and

:53:21.:53:23.

all it does is not win the seat but just keeps up possible like-minded

:53:24.:53:29.

sympathetic candidate. That presumes we are a left-wing party and we are

:53:30.:53:32.

not. We have people coming to us from right across... All your famous

:53:33.:53:40.

names. There's lots of people behind-the-scenes who don't want to

:53:41.:53:44.

be named to our supporters. There's lots of people behind-the-scenes

:53:45.:53:47.

reporting is. There's a famous right-wing name joining you get a

:53:48.:53:52.

Mac I dig going and so that? You've already got the hang of being a

:53:53.:53:54.

politician by not answering the question. I find this really weird.

:53:55.:54:02.

People presume that they tell us for stealing votes. The boats don't

:54:03.:54:05.

belong to the other parties. They have to do in them and there's an

:54:06.:54:09.

awful lot voters who say, you're not having my vote on this any more --

:54:10.:54:14.

votes. I think you're onto something. Why can't you steal vast

:54:15.:54:19.

tranches of votes on a group of issues off the establishment? On

:54:20.:54:25.

that shock revelation that you have the backing of the Sun newspaper,

:54:26.:54:28.

you can take that back to your party leaders and they will be overjoyed.

:54:29.:54:30.

Thanks for being with us. Now any moment now,

:54:31.:54:32.

if all goes to plan, Major Tim Peake will become

:54:33.:54:34.

the first Briton to walk in space, to repair the International

:54:35.:54:37.

Space Station. Back here on earth,

:54:38.:54:40.

MPs, or at the least Scottish National Party's

:54:41.:54:42.

MPs, have been getting Yes, it turns out the SNP

:54:43.:54:44.

is packed with Trekkies. And in the Commons they were boldly

:54:45.:54:57.

going, in the words of the famous split infinitive, where no

:54:58.:55:05.

MP has gone before. Let's have a listen

:55:06.:55:11.

Philippa Whitford opening a Commons Now, some people who follow

:55:12.:55:14.

the media will be aware that our former First Minister,

:55:15.:55:22.

the right honourable member for Gordon, has used as a travelling

:55:23.:55:24.

pseudonym the name of that famous But for a debate as important

:55:25.:55:30.

as this, I felt that we should And I therefore have a message

:55:31.:55:36.

to the House of Commons "Space is one of the

:55:37.:55:43.

last known frontiers. "Mostly untouched by

:55:44.:55:47.

mankind in his politics. "In opening a debate on this

:55:48.:55:51.

subject, it is my hope you take "the tenets

:55:52.:55:54.

of Star Trek's prime directive "to universally and peacefully share

:55:55.:55:57.

in the exploration of it. "I wish you all a wonderful debate.

:55:58.:56:02.

My best, Bill. "So that it can live

:56:03.:56:06.

long and prosper." And Philippa Whitford joins us now

:56:07.:56:10.

from the BBC studios in Glasgow. I noticed William Shatner has not

:56:11.:56:24.

lost his ability to split a definitive on the statement you read

:56:25.:56:28.

doubtful that was it difficult to get a message from him? Surprisingly

:56:29.:56:32.

easy. I can't claim the credit for it. It was the inspired move of my

:56:33.:56:37.

parliamentary assistant who just wrote to several very famous Star

:56:38.:56:41.

Trek people. Was he aware Alex Salmond has used his name to book

:56:42.:56:46.

flights and hotels? Yes, that was covered in the media last year. Do

:56:47.:56:51.

you check in as Deanna Troy? No, I don't. Press a week is vying to be

:56:52.:57:00.

the spaceport for button bash Prestwick. What is a spaceport do?

:57:01.:57:07.

It's something which struck me during the election. If you mention

:57:08.:57:11.

space in the UK, people laugh. It's something we think Russia and

:57:12.:57:15.

America do but not us. Sorry to interrupt because just as you are

:57:16.:57:22.

speaking, we have pictures of Tim Peake leaving the space station to

:57:23.:57:30.

begin his work of repair, the first person to walk in space. Please,

:57:31.:57:36.

carry on. I interrupted you. Major Tim Peake is the reason we ask the

:57:37.:57:40.

backbench committee to give us the debate yesterday in honour of his

:57:41.:57:44.

spacewalk today but also to encourage people to realise that the

:57:45.:57:49.

UK has a significant space industry. We have led for decades in what are

:57:50.:57:53.

called small satellites which the size of a fridge rather than on a

:57:54.:57:57.

bus, but we now have here in Glasgow company along with others who make

:57:58.:58:02.

micro satellites, about one litre in size, so this whole industry is

:58:03.:58:07.

growing that we have no launch site at all in the UK. Am I right in

:58:08.:58:12.

thinking there's quite a few Star Trek fans in the SNP Parliamentary

:58:13.:58:19.

party? I don't think it was only the SNP. We did, mind you, have Ian

:58:20.:58:26.

Wright, the Labour MP who stuck to Star Wars. I understand one of your

:58:27.:58:31.

colleagues is into fist bumping rather than a unhygienic

:58:32.:58:35.

handshaking. Will we see the fist bumping now? I think I will be going

:58:36.:58:40.

for elbow bumping if you're trying to do that. Just use alcohol gel.

:58:41.:58:43.

Thank you very much for joining us. That's all for today.

:58:44.:58:45.

Thanks to our guests. The One O'Clock News is starting

:58:46.:58:47.

over on BBC One now. I'll be back on Sunday

:58:48.:58:49.

with the Sunday Politics. We are expecting to see people

:58:50.:58:52.

who can sell anything. It's the Oscar

:58:53.:59:13.

for the mobile phone industry. The search for Britain's best

:59:14.:59:15.

mobile phone salesperson is on. We are expecting to see people

:59:16.:59:20.

who can sell anything.

:59:21.:59:25.

Andrew Neil with the latest political news, interviews and debate. He is joined by journalists Tom Newton Dunn and Gaby Hinsliff for the latest from Westminster.

The programme includes an interview with Labour's former security minister Lord West on law firms pursuing legal cases against British soldiers.

And the leader of the Women's Equality Party Sophie Walker talks about her hopes for electoral success.


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