03/02/2016 Daily Politics


03/02/2016

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn are joined by Therese Coffey and Chris Bryant for reaction to David Cameron's EU reform package and PMQs.


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Transcript


LineFromTo

Morning, folks, and welcome to the Daily Politics.

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David Cameron could face a tough ride in the Commons today.

:00:42.:00:45.

The PM's making the case for his draft EU settlement deal

:00:46.:00:48.

which he hopes will persuade voters to stay in Europe.

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Not everyone's convinced, though, and plans to restrict welfare

:00:53.:00:58.

payments to migrants have been dubbed "unworkable" by some.

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Last night, the Home Secretary said the draft EU agreement

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But some of her Cabinet colleagues aren't too sure.

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Eurosceptic ministers are still gagged by the Prime

:01:13.:01:13.

Before the PM's statement on Europe, there's another small

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David Cameron faces Jeremy Corbyn across the despatch box at midday.

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And in our soapbox today, the inconvenience of a lack

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just having access to a clean hygienic public toilet is a simple

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basic human rights. Time for some serious investment. Time to spend

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more than a penny! All that in the next hour

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and with us for the duration, a match

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made in heaven. Deputy Leader of the House

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of Commons, the Conservative MP, Therese Coffey and Shadow Leader

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of the House of Commons, Now, do you know your red card

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from your orange card, Morning, folks, and welcome

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to the Daily Politics. David Cameron could face a tough

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ride in the Commons today. The PM's making the case

:02:12.:02:14.

for his draft EU settlement deal which he hopes will persuade

:02:15.:02:17.

voters to stay in Europe. Not everyone's convinced, though,

:02:18.:02:19.

and plans to restrict welfare payments to migrants have been

:02:20.:02:21.

dubbed "unworkable" by some. Last night, the Home Secretary said

:02:22.:02:24.

the draft EU agreement But some of her Cabinet

:02:25.:02:26.

colleagues aren't too sure. Eurosceptic ministers

:02:27.:02:30.

are still gagged by the Prime Before the PM's statement on Europe,

:02:31.:02:32.

there's another small David Cameron faces Jeremy Corbyn

:02:33.:02:35.

across the despatch box at midday. And in our soapbox today,

:02:36.:02:39.

the inconvenience of a lack Just having access to a bog just

:02:40.:02:41.

having access to a clean hygienic public toilet

:02:42.:02:45.

is a simple basic human rights. investment, time to spend

:02:46.:02:47.

more than a penny. All that in the next hour

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and with us for the duration, a match

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made in heaven. Deputy Leader of the House

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of Commons, the Conservative MP, Therese Coffey and Shadow Leader

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of the House of Commons, Now, do you know your red card

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from your orange card, or indeed your emergency brake

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from full frontal throttle Well, David Cameron will find out

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what MPs think of the deal he's been negotiating to change Britain's

:03:12.:03:14.

membership of the EU, when he discusses it

:03:15.:03:16.

in parliament today. Europe's top officials published

:03:17.:03:18.

a draft offer yesterday, but it's fair to say not

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everyone's a happy bunny. The PMs deal has been lambasted

:03:21.:03:22.

on the front page of nearly every national newspaper this morning,

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the Sun and the Mail are particularly critical;

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and if you believe everything you read, he's heading

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for a bit of a meltdown So did Britain's most important

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negotiator get what he wanted. David Cameron wanted a four-year

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benefit ban on EU migrants... suggests a graduated access

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to benefits from initial complete exclusion and increases over

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the four-year period, with child benefits linked

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to the standard of living in the country where

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the child lives. The UK can also apply

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for an emergency brake on welfare, but it's not completely

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clear how that brake is pulled The PM also wanted protection

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for non-eurozone economies, prohibiting discrimination

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between currencies. Cameron wanted to get

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Britain out of 'ever closer union' with

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the European Union? that the UK is not committed

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to further political integration The Prime Minister also

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wanted the sovereignty of national parliaments

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to be bolstered? - if 55% of national parliaments

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club together EU law can be blocked. Some of the Cabinet

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are reportedly not happy with the deal and are discussing

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whether to break ranks But the President of

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the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker,

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speaking this morning in Strasbourg, Well let's talk now to the Ukip

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leader, Nigel Farage, Let's talk now to our

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guests in the studio and to the Conservative MP Liam Fox,

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who's in Central Lobby. Well, after PMQs, the Prime Minister

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will give a statement to the House MPs are expected to discuss that

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until well into the afternoon. Labour's Kate Hoey,

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and Caroline Lucas from the Green Now, as a public service broadcaster

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it's our duty to inform, There are two things that can sway

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the referendum, first can he get us a deal that will give more control

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of a Borders and the second is the day because of the European Union --

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the daily cost. That has not been discussed and if he honestly thinks

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this emergency brake will persuade people on migration he is wrong.

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Four years from now not only will we pay benefits to EU migrants at the

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same levels as now on top of that our minimum wage will be going up to

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a living wage. I think we can predict with confidence in four

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years, people factors to Britain will be even greater than today and

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that is why he's got a problem. -- the pulling factors. One problem was

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persuading people like Theresa May, key members of his cabinet and she

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zooms to back this deal as the basis for future negotiation. That has

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been a success for the Prime Minister. In a way. He also has some

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time until this summit to persuade other Cabinet ministers who might

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have thought of joining your side. To reason may has always supported

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the European Union through her career. She has never rebelled on

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that issue. She has the worst immigration record are some

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secretary of anyone in UK history. She gave one speech at the Tory

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confidence when she talked about getting back control of borders,

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everybody cheered, the Tory papers that she was the new Mrs Thatcher,

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heroin. If she had been sincere in that speech, then she must campaign

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for us to leave the EU because it's the only way to get back control of

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our borders and put into place a points system on immigration which

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is what the British public want. No Cabinet ministers have joined Leave

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yet but even if, say, Chris Grayling, or Iain Duncan Smith or

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Theresa Villiers or all of them join, would that make a massive

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difference to the Leave campaign? Everyone in Westminster is obsessing

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about which people will break ranks and support the Leave campaign. I am

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not sure that politicians have as big a sway over the way people will

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vote in this referendum as many commentators think. This political

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class lied to us in 1975 about what the common market was about, they

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did their best to get us into the euro, thank goodness, we stopped

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them. I am less worried about which political figures join the Leave

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campaign. Michael Caine on Radio 4 last week talking about why he

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thinks Britain would be better outside the European Union, maybe

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that has a bigger impact on the way people vote than whether one

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minister comes in on it or not. So in your mind and would not make much

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difference? Two all three will join Leave, maybe four on a good day with

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a fair wind. They will be welcome and we need a proper cross-party

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campaign, not just for ministers, we need Labour people and trade union

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members. This is all across the board, not about left-wing

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right-wing parties. It is about a key issue. From my perspective it is

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the most important vote will have in our lifetimes. Benchmark is not the

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going problem is not the problem there is not one that United Leave

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campaign, and those that exist seem to be taking chunks of it each other

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which is not your message. And angry about it. I have sat in a room with

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one fellow director of Leave has put an offer on the table and said to

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John Mills, who is the chairman of Vote Leave, let's merge the

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organisations Camille can be the chairman, it's doesn't matter about

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me, let's get together. And time after time the Vote Leave crowd

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rejected those offers of coming together. I wonder if Vote Leave

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really want to leave the European Union because they are not talking

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about a double referendum strategy. It makes no sense. We need to have

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one unified campaign. Basically two well-paid employees voting Leave

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will hold up the process. On that, not much time left to bring them

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together. You are calling for one group and no more, if the referendum

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is in June you are running out of time. Ie Agree but I don't see any

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circumstances in which these two well-paid employees will make a deal

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which is why we launched the initiative for Though, we came on

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your programme some weeks ago and we'll be on the platform in

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Manchester for a second meeting. 12 people on the platform from across

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the political spectrum, David Davis will be joining us on the evening.

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Thank you, Nigel Farage. In a moment we will talk to our guests in the

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studio, first, Liam Fox is in the lobby of the House of Commons. Liam

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Fox, do you believe that the proposed settlement, if that is what

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it turns out to be, at the summit, will it play much of a part in the

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referendum campaign? It may play a part with voters who are genuinely

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undecided. As I have said, for my part, the renegotiation did not make

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a difference to my view because I had already decided that what we

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were asking for was too little, so the only way to get back the powers

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I wanted was to leave the European Union. The question will be for

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members of Parliament, those who said, some more genuinely than

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others that they will waiting for the results of the renegotiation,

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know that they've seen the results, whether that will be enough for

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them, and in the days ahead Ebor have to make up their minds because

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it is a binary choice, referendum, you are either in favour of European

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Union membership or not, you are in favour of Britain determining its

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own borders or you want them determined somewhere else. People

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will have to get up that fence. -- of that fence. Are you concerned, as

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Tory polling seems to suggest, as the Prime Minister comes off the

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fence and campaigns for Britain to stay in the EU, that that will swing

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many Tory voters his way, not yours? We will have to wait and see what

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happens when the documents are put before the voters. Rather than just

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the Prime Minister, who is a single voice in this in terms of the

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Cabinet, other Cabinet ministers may campaign for the Leave side and will

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put with authority a different message. I would not put too much

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emphasis on polling at the moment, if you look at polling on the

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referendum it is all over the place. Given that the Prime Minister has

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already begun to campaign to keep Britain in the EU, we saw that with

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his speech in the West Country yesterday, do you think that

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Eurosceptic Conservative Cabinet ministers should now come out and

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give the other side of the case? It's a question of fairness and how

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fairly we deal with both sides, how easy it may be after the referendum

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to come together. If the deal is that nobody should campaign for or

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against the deal until it is finalised at the European Council

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that should apply equally to both sides. The Prime Minister is already

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campaigning. If it is OK for one side to campaign in favour, natural

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justice says the other side should have an equal chance. It's only a

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short window, less than two weeks but there is an issue of fair play

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here. Liam Fox. Thank you for joining us.. Therese Coffey, let's

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look at this issue of sovereignty which artist is the many people in

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your party. What is the difference between David

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Cameron's red card and the Lisbon treaty's Orange card? We have made

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progress in many areas and I would suggest that the Orange card, as you

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say, is a query to the commission to think about it again. This extra red

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card would effectively put a block on that legislation. The red card

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doesn't put a block on it. Like the orange card, it asks the commission

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to think again, to either maintain, amend, or withdraw but it is in the

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power of the commission with both cards. My understanding is that

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there will be more power to it. In the House of Commons tonight we are

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doing one of these yellow cards on emotion. I think there is more to it

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than what was in the Lisbon Treaty. -- on a motion. The settlement which

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I have read says that you have 12 weeks as opposed to eight weeks

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under the orange card to get together 56% of European

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Parliaments, as opposed to 51% with the orange card, to ask the

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commission to think again. What is the difference? I believe that it

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has substantially more effect and this is why it matters. Are you

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saying that the red card, if you can get these Parliaments into line, the

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red card has the power to stop the commission? It has a more

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substantial effect and what is in the Lisbon to do of requiring the

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commission not just to say, we'll think about it and carry on, it goes

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back to the council and the commission, which initiates

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legislation so it is more substantial than what we have now.

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How would you rate the chances of getting 56% of Europe's Parliaments

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in line within a 12 week period? That depends on what the issue is. I

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would say that the bigger consequence is the matter is that

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the Prime Minister has progressed with, subsidiarity, applying that

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further, and closer political union. So there's more of a challenge about

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what legislation comes down the line. Is it credible given that you

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all have different holiday periods and many of the government 's under

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boating will have already voted for the issue, that you can get more

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than 15 European Parliaments to defy their governments in a period of 12

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weeks? Is that really a credible position? If it is a case of trying

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to stop laws progress in which we believe are contrary to the

:15:32.:15:34.

interests of the UK and we can work with other countries to achieve that

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it is a minor detail as to when someone goes on holiday or not. But

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if you want the votes of the other Parliament! The Polish problem and

:15:44.:15:49.

cannot vote if it is on holiday. The four errors we have made progress

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on, I will suggest that we will perhaps see fewer laws coming down

:15:54.:15:57.

the line which we believe should be decided in the UK rather than in the

:15:58.:16:02.

EU. That is the reference to increased used of subsidiarity. We

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will reinforce that, I think. The Tory election manifesto promise

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to stop child benefit for the children

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to stop child benefit for the rates of those benefits for children

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not resident in this country. But that wasn't what the manifesto

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promised, it that wasn't what the manifesto

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benefit. This is part of that wasn't what the manifesto

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negotiation. If I were a Polish person paying the same taxes and

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negotiation. If I were a Polish insurance in the UK, and I could not

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get child benefit from the Polish government in

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get child benefit from the Polish there is a conversation that has to

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be had there is a conversation that has to

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states. I don't think it is an unreasonable compromise. But it was

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not what you're manifesto promised. The Tory manifesto also promised

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that there would be no in work benefits for four years for migrants

:17:06.:17:09.

coming to this country. Why have you broken that promise? That is

:17:10.:17:10.

coming to this country. Why have you bit of the text where the years have

:17:11.:17:18.

not been pencilled in. This is a live negotiation for lease the next

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two weeks. Nobody is saying the deal has to be completed at the fabric

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council. But the settlement talks about graduated payments, starting

:17:27.:17:27.

from when you arrive. about graduated payments, starting

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affect any migrants already here, but graduated payments which will

:17:32.:17:36.

rise the longer you are here until you get to the standard rate after

:17:37.:17:40.

four years. That is not what the manifesto promised, so why have you

:17:41.:17:43.

broken that promise? You need to wait for the final deal before you

:17:44.:17:47.

can get the weather we have achieved what we set out to achieve. The

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Prime Minister has a record of negotiating. He has done it in the

:17:55.:18:00.

past, and last year, nobody believed any of this would be possible at

:18:01.:18:05.

all. We have made progress. The Tory manifesto also promised that there

:18:06.:18:10.

would be no social housing for migrants coming until they had been

:18:11.:18:14.

here for four years. Why is there no mention of that in the settlement? I

:18:15.:18:19.

don't believe the initial paper that has gone to the other European

:18:20.:18:22.

councils has gone into every consequence of every decision. This

:18:23.:18:28.

is a principle -based document. We have made considerable progress. Not

:18:29.:18:35.

long ago, people said there would be no chance of that. Is the Prime

:18:36.:18:39.

Minister asking for no social housing for four years? We have seen

:18:40.:18:43.

no mention of it in the settlement. I am not in the negotiations with

:18:44.:18:50.

the Prime Minister. We did pass the EU act in the last Parliament, and

:18:51.:18:53.

there will be referendums on other matters. We know if the European

:18:54.:18:58.

Union wants to take more powers away from this country, we would have

:18:59.:19:02.

that in the bank. We need to recalibrate the relationship for

:19:03.:19:07.

things like the Schengen zone and the ever closer union. There are

:19:08.:19:13.

important steps. Let me show you what William Hague said about the

:19:14.:19:20.

idea of a red card in the House of Commons in 2008. They say, look at

:19:21.:19:27.

the enhanced role of national parliaments which is set out in the

:19:28.:19:32.

treaty. If a majority in half the Parliament of the EU object to an EU

:19:33.:19:35.

measure, they might be able to block it. But once again, it does not take

:19:36.:19:41.

much analysis to work out that the chances of that mechanism being

:19:42.:19:42.

employed vanishingly small. It could be used only if 14

:19:43.:19:45.

different national Parliaments, nearly all of which have

:19:46.:19:47.

a Government majority, defeated an EU proposal,

:19:48.:19:49.

and did so within We have only to consider that

:19:50.:19:51.

for a moment, as Members of Parliament, to begin

:19:52.:19:55.

to laugh about it. Given the difficulty of oppositions

:19:56.:19:58.

winning a vote in their Parliaments, the odds against doing so in 14

:19:59.:20:00.

countries around Europe with different parliamentary

:20:01.:20:04.

recesses - lasting up to 10 weeks in our own case - are such that

:20:05.:20:07.

even if the European Commission proposed the slaughter

:20:08.:20:10.

of the first-born, it would be difficult to achieve such

:20:11.:20:12.

a remarkable conjunction Mr Hague cannot have been right then

:20:13.:20:29.

and the Prime Minister right now. He was saying it is difficult for an

:20:30.:20:32.

opposition to challenge European law, and that is still the case. No,

:20:33.:20:37.

he was saying it is impossible to get 15 European parliaments to block

:20:38.:20:43.

a commission policy. He made the point that I made about holidays as

:20:44.:20:47.

well and getting all the parliaments to meet. Now we are told that this

:20:48.:20:53.

is the Prime Minister's men grab of a return of sovereignty. As I said,

:20:54.:20:59.

I believe this has more impact than what was proposed under the Lisbon

:21:00.:21:03.

Treaty. And I believe he was saying that from the prospect of an

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opposition. Where you have a governing party, particularly our

:21:07.:21:12.

government, who wanted a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, we didn't get

:21:13.:21:15.

one because it had been ratified by the time we get to power, and

:21:16.:21:19.

unfortunately Labour decided not to have one, we might have had a

:21:20.:21:22.

different scenario. But we are having a referendum and it is for 60

:21:23.:21:27.

million people to make that decision. Although you are

:21:28.:21:32.

enthusiastic about what the Prime Minister is bringing back, you will

:21:33.:21:37.

still campaign to stay in? I am a passionate pro-European. I believe

:21:38.:21:41.

our destiny lies within the European Union. Watching Nigel Farage, he

:21:42.:21:46.

can't help himself. The people's front of duty are fighting against

:21:47.:21:51.

the Judaean people's front. They are all wearing green ties in the

:21:52.:21:55.

Commons today. But they cannot unite around a common theme. In the end,

:21:56.:22:05.

voters will have to decide. Is the total package of our membership in

:22:06.:22:10.

our interests? And you think it is. We will come back to you. Just be

:22:11.:22:13.

patient. Well, after PMQs, the Prime Minister

:22:14.:22:15.

will give a statement to the House MPs are expected to discuss that

:22:16.:22:18.

until well into the afternoon. Labour's Kate Hoey,

:22:19.:22:24.

and Caroline Lucas from the Caroline Lucas, is this a deal you

:22:25.:22:38.

can support? I never supported what he was trying to achieve through the

:22:39.:22:42.

negotiation anyway. There are bigger issues at stake on as Chris Bryant

:22:43.:22:47.

said. What is at stake is whether we believe we are better off working

:22:48.:22:50.

with our European colleagues when it comes to trying to tackle the

:22:51.:22:53.

biggest challenges we face, whether that is the environmental challenge

:22:54.:22:57.

or international terrorism, I believe we are better inside the EU,

:22:58.:23:00.

working with our colleagues to do that. To me, this renegotiation is

:23:01.:23:06.

about David Cameron strutting his stuff to try to persuade his

:23:07.:23:09.

Eurosceptic backbenchers. I do not agree with some of the premises he

:23:10.:23:13.

has been trying to achieve. I think we should make a bigger case to say

:23:14.:23:18.

that if we want a secure and better off Britain, there were to do that

:23:19.:23:23.

is inside the EU. Kate Hoey, you will campaign for Britain to leave

:23:24.:23:28.

the EU, but the deal, like it or loathe it, doesn't change Labour's

:23:29.:23:32.

position of Chris Brant is not enthusiastic, but he will still

:23:33.:23:38.

campaign in -- Chris Bryant. The Labour Party has never said what it

:23:39.:23:42.

would like to see reform. It keeps talking about reform, but never says

:23:43.:23:45.

what it would like to reform. I did not support the kind of things David

:23:46.:23:50.

Cameron was asking for. I thought he would go for fundamental change. He

:23:51.:23:55.

hasn't done that. The whole thing is a sideshow. Nothing is going to

:23:56.:24:00.

change unless we can get back control of our own borders and we

:24:01.:24:05.

get control of how we make our own laws, and unless we get back control

:24:06.:24:13.

of this Parliament making decisions. All of this is a bit of frippery,

:24:14.:24:17.

and I think the public are much more sensible, because they know what

:24:18.:24:25.

they want. Kate Hoey, any sign of new Labour recruits to your side of

:24:26.:24:30.

the referendum argument? You said recently that you knew one or two

:24:31.:24:36.

shadow ministers were likely to campaign for Brexit. Are they coming

:24:37.:24:40.

forward? Yes, AI think you will see shifts in the next few weeks,

:24:41.:24:44.

particularly after the final negotiation. I do not think the

:24:45.:24:49.

referendum will come in June, because it will not work out with

:24:50.:24:57.

other issues. It is the public, in the end. MPs do not matter. Thank

:24:58.:25:05.

you both. If I can make one point, one of the light that Nigel Farage

:25:06.:25:11.

perpetuates that somehow, we were sold a lie in the 1970s and that was

:25:12.:25:16.

all to be about trade. For a start, I always thought that trade is part

:25:17.:25:20.

of politics. It is subject to political rules. Secondly, if you

:25:21.:25:24.

look at the speeches back then, it was clear that the formation of the

:25:25.:25:28.

EEC and then the European Union was all about saying we were a war-torn

:25:29.:25:34.

continent, and it was a price worth paying to sit through boring

:25:35.:25:38.

meetings in Brussels and Strasbourg and to pull a bit of our sovereignty

:25:39.:25:41.

so that we could achieve greater prosperity across the whole of the

:25:42.:25:46.

union and that we would end up, in my lifetime, Spain, Portugal and

:25:47.:25:50.

Greece were under dictatorships and will never be so again. Pooling

:25:51.:25:54.

sovereignty was a phrase that Ted Heath would never have used in the

:25:55.:25:55.

1975 referendum. Now, as a public service broadcaster

:25:56.:25:58.

it's our duty to inform, manifestly failed on all three

:25:59.:26:01.

counts, it's up to JoCo and I to try to win your affection

:26:02.:26:06.

with material goods. But at a time of straitened

:26:07.:26:09.

financial circumstances for the BBC, we had to jettison the idea

:26:10.:26:11.

of offering up box seats So we're offering this

:26:12.:26:14.

little beauty instead. To be in with a chance

:26:15.:26:20.

of winning, tell us MUSIC: Jesus To A Child

:26:21.:26:22.

by George Michael MUSIC: Don't Look Back

:26:23.:26:48.

In Anger by Oasis # But don't look back

:26:49.:26:50.

in anger, I heard you say... MUSIC: Mysterious Girl

:26:51.:27:05.

by Peter Andre I am happy to answer the grand

:27:06.:27:16.

jury's questions and look forward To be in with a chance of winning

:27:17.:27:20.

a Daily Politics mug, send your answer to our special

:27:21.:27:53.

quiz email address - Entries must arrive by 12.30 today,

:27:54.:27:55.

and you can see the full terms and conditions for Guess

:27:56.:28:02.

The Year on our website - It's coming up to midday here -

:28:03.:28:05.

just take a look at Big Ben - It is a difficult day in Parliament,

:28:06.:28:18.

Questions is on its way. It is a difficult day in Parliament,

:28:19.:28:28.

because you It is a difficult day in Parliament,

:28:29.:28:32.

Minister's statement on Europe, when there will be lots of questions.

:28:33.:28:38.

What does Mr Corbyn do? It is always a balance on these kinds of days,

:28:39.:28:42.

because political leaders want to look relevant, but there is no point

:28:43.:28:45.

in labour trying out all the arguments they might

:28:46.:28:48.

in labour trying out all the statement that follows. So this

:28:49.:28:49.

morning, the Westminster is that Jeremy Corbyn

:28:50.:28:54.

will pose questions on health, not talking about Europe. He has done

:28:55.:28:59.

that from time to time. We have seen it on lots of occasions, like on the

:29:00.:29:05.

day of the junior doctors' strike. And Jeremy Corbyn chose to talk

:29:06.:29:11.

about housing on that day. We have seen two modes of Jeremy Corbyn at

:29:12.:29:16.

PMQs evolving. To start with, it was all on issues the

:29:17.:29:20.

PMQs evolving. To start with, it was suggesting. Last week with Google,

:29:21.:29:21.

he was suggesting. Last week with Google,

:29:22.:29:24.

hot button that the government was in trouble with. Today, I think we

:29:25.:29:28.

will see Corbyn Mark one. But Downing Street disappointed by this

:29:29.:29:34.

morning's front pages, or did they expect to get a kick in? They knew

:29:35.:29:37.

there was going to be a punchy attitude. They are watching the

:29:38.:29:43.

papers carefully. It is not clear where the Sun will end up where the

:29:44.:29:47.

Daily Mail or Telegraph will end up. In a sense, it doesn't matter with

:29:48.:29:51.

FrontPage is like that. Nobody reads the editorials Thomas Davies front

:29:52.:29:58.

pages. -- they don't read the editorials, they read the front

:29:59.:30:02.

pages. But as the Sun said about the deal, the FrontPage stank for Number

:30:03.:30:12.

Ten this morning. It is whether those newspapers decide to do ten

:30:13.:30:15.

pages every day all the way through until the referendum. If Jeremy is

:30:16.:30:19.

doing health today, that would be right because the majority of

:30:20.:30:23.

voters, Europe is not in the top ten for them. Immigration might be, but

:30:24.:30:28.

they are far more concerned about health and jobs. But immigration is

:30:29.:30:35.

the top of many voters' concerns, and that is the part of the deal

:30:36.:30:38.

that David Cameron has problems with. Yes, the ink is not dry. The

:30:39.:30:43.

ink has not even been filled in on the deal. But it is clear that the

:30:44.:30:49.

manifesto is much younger than the draft deal is. Let's go to PMQs.

:30:50.:30:59.

In addition to my duties in this house holed I shall have further

:31:00.:31:11.

meetings today. Jon. Mr Speaker, is that it, is that the best the Prime

:31:12.:31:17.

Minister can do? Nothing for British pensioners? Nothing for British

:31:18.:31:22.

workers and as the Office for Budget Responsibility and the Treasury have

:31:23.:31:27.

confirmed, his long-term economic plan is reliant on over 1 million

:31:28.:31:33.

new migrants entering this country before 2020! Has the Prime Minister

:31:34.:31:37.

got the bottle to confirm this inconvenient truth? I'll tell you

:31:38.:31:44.

what we are doing for pensioners, a triple lock on pensions. Never again

:31:45.:31:48.

be 75p rise that they got from the Labour Party with prices and wages

:31:49.:31:56.

at two and half percent. What we are doing from people who work hard in

:31:57.:32:00.

Britain is create 2.3 million more jobs since I became Prime Minister.

:32:01.:32:05.

Of course I believe we will succeed more as a country if we get a good

:32:06.:32:09.

deal in Europe and stay in a reformed Europe. It will be good for

:32:10.:32:13.

jobs, for investment, for growth and that is what I'm fighting for.

:32:14.:32:22.

Marcus Fish. People in my constituency, Yeovil, are rightly

:32:23.:32:26.

proud of their contribution to the defence of this country, whether

:32:27.:32:29.

through the skill and redness of the fleet arm at your fill all the local

:32:30.:32:33.

high-tech industry making and maintaining helicopters and

:32:34.:32:37.

equipment for ships and aircraft and those who serve on them. In the

:32:38.:32:42.

current circumstances of increasing security challenges and

:32:43.:32:45.

responsibilities and a worrying lack of commitment to defence in many

:32:46.:32:49.

European countries, I welcome the leadership, the government has shown

:32:50.:32:54.

in committing to spend 2% of GDP on defence and I ask whether my right

:32:55.:32:58.

honourable friend will meet with me to discuss ideas that I have two

:32:59.:33:06.

build on local capability. My friend friend is absolutely right that your

:33:07.:33:09.

fill makes a huge contribution to the defence of our country, not

:33:10.:33:15.

least through Augusta Western, a big dish business. We are committed to

:33:16.:33:20.

spending ?178 billion on defence equipment over the next decade,

:33:21.:33:23.

something we can only do because we have a strong economy. We are

:33:24.:33:27.

committed to that 2% and will make sure the money is well spent and

:33:28.:33:31.

making sure we have the right equipment for our brave Armed

:33:32.:33:37.

Forces. Jeremy Corbyn. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Tomorrow, Mr Speaker, is

:33:38.:33:47.

world comes a day. Cancer is a disease that almost every family in

:33:48.:33:52.

this country has been affected by. Two and a half million people in

:33:53.:33:56.

this country have cancer. There are members on both sides of this House

:33:57.:34:02.

who have or have received treatment. 1000 people every day diagnosed with

:34:03.:34:06.

cancer and go through a trauma as soon as they are diagnosed. Accent

:34:07.:34:10.

in the last year there's been a 36% increase in the number of people

:34:11.:34:15.

waiting more than six weeks for vital diagnostic tests. Could the

:34:16.:34:18.

Prime Minister two something to bring that down? First I agree with

:34:19.:34:24.

the right honourable gentleman that the fight against cancer is one of

:34:25.:34:28.

the great fights of our time, one we are determined to win. When we look

:34:29.:34:32.

at the way we treated in this country we are putting an extra ?19

:34:33.:34:36.

billion into the NHS and specifically while he is right,

:34:37.:34:41.

everyone in this House and every family will know somebody affected

:34:42.:34:46.

by cancer, we are treating more patientss. The figures. Compared

:34:47.:34:52.

with 2010, over 645,000 more patients with suspected

:34:53.:35:04.

cancers have been seen, an increase of 71% and almost 40,000 more

:35:05.:35:07.

patients have been treated. An increase of 17%. We have more

:35:08.:35:09.

doctors, nurses, more cancer specialists but the fight against it

:35:10.:35:12.

is something we need to continue with. Jeremy Corbyn. Mr Speaker,

:35:13.:35:17.

early diagnosis is essential when dealing with cancer. I think we all

:35:18.:35:22.

know that from personal experience. The government 's independent task

:35:23.:35:26.

force into cancer reported last year, and I quote, we currently have

:35:27.:35:29.

a serious shortage of radiologists in England. We need more of them so

:35:30.:35:33.

could the Prime Minister explain why we are cutting by 5% the number of

:35:34.:35:38.

training places available for therapeutic radiographers? We need

:35:39.:35:44.

more radiologists and we are getting them because we are putting more

:35:45.:35:48.

into the NHS. Where he is right is that waiting times, a moment ago the

:35:49.:35:52.

right honourable lady was shouting about waiting times, there are three

:35:53.:35:57.

key targets on them. First that people should be seen by a

:35:58.:36:00.

specialist within two weeks of an urgent GP referral, and we're meant

:36:01.:36:05.

to be on 93% of occasions, we are currently on 94.7, we need to make

:36:06.:36:11.

sure that the first treatment comes within 31 days of diagnosis, that's

:36:12.:36:16.

very important, there's a 96% standard and we meeting that by

:36:17.:36:20.

97.7%. Yet I accept that when it comes to the first treatment within

:36:21.:36:25.

62 days the standard is 85% and we are at 82.5 so we must improve. With

:36:26.:36:31.

training, we are increasing training places in the NHS, we discussed

:36:32.:36:35.

nurses last week where we are opening up nurse training by making

:36:36.:36:43.

sure that we train an extra 10,000 nurses but the crucial point is that

:36:44.:36:45.

the money is there in the NHS because we've got a strong economy.

:36:46.:36:50.

?19 billion of money which would never be there if we followed his

:36:51.:36:58.

crazy economic plans! Jeremy Corbyn. Mr Speaker, my question was on

:36:59.:37:02.

therapeutic radiographers. The Prime Minister did not answer on that.

:37:03.:37:05.

Without an improvement in the numbers available there will be a

:37:06.:37:08.

problem with treatment, that must be obvious to everyone. The cancer task

:37:09.:37:14.

force also asks, and I could, for a radical upgrade in prevention and

:37:15.:37:19.

public health. Programmes like stopping smoking and anti-obesity

:37:20.:37:23.

absolutely essential to stop the spread of cancer and indeed to help

:37:24.:37:28.

people live better lives so they don't develop cancer at all. Yet if

:37:29.:37:33.

we cut, as he proposes, ?200 million from the Public health budget,

:37:34.:37:37.

surely that is going to lead to an increase in cancer, with all the

:37:38.:37:41.

trauma that goes with it, and indeed the greater cost for the rest of the

:37:42.:37:45.

community. Could he explain why he is making this cut? First of all,

:37:46.:37:51.

but to diagnostic radiographers, there are 1800 more diagnostic

:37:52.:37:56.

radiographers than when I became Prime Minister in 2010. As for the

:37:57.:38:03.

interests... That is a 15% increase. The reason that there is an increase

:38:04.:38:07.

is that we said that we would put more money into the NHS, a real

:38:08.:38:13.

terms increase, something we were told by the then Shadow Health

:38:14.:38:18.

Secretary was then irresponsible. We ignored Labour and would put money

:38:19.:38:21.

into the health service. As a result, there's been a 15% increase

:38:22.:38:26.

in diagnostic radiographers. When it comes to the rest of the Cancer

:38:27.:38:31.

plan, the money is being invested, there is a key difference, though,

:38:32.:38:35.

between England and Wales and something he can help with, is that

:38:36.:38:39.

there is a Labour government in Wales. Whereas we have a Cancer

:38:40.:38:42.

Drugs Fund, they don't have one in Wales. So he needs to sort that out

:38:43.:38:50.

with that Labour Administration. As for public health, under this

:38:51.:38:55.

government, real advances have been made on public health, including

:38:56.:38:59.

smoking rules in the backs of cars, including plain paper packaging, and

:39:00.:39:04.

ring fencing public health budgets. All done and the Conservatives, not

:39:05.:39:13.

done under Labour. Jeremy Corbyn. Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister is

:39:14.:39:16.

responsible for the health service in England. Wales is a devolved

:39:17.:39:21.

matter. He must be aware... SHOUTING

:39:22.:39:26.

And he must know that cancer surviving rates are improving better

:39:27.:39:29.

in Wales than in any other part of the UK. But my question was... My

:39:30.:39:48.

question, Mr Speaker, was about the cuts in public health budgets and

:39:49.:39:52.

the effect that has on cancer care. Could the Prime Minister tell us

:39:53.:39:59.

when was the last time that the NHS targets are starting cancer

:40:00.:40:01.

treatment was met with in the 62 days required? As I have

:40:02.:40:07.

treatment was met with in the 62 the three big targets we are meeting

:40:08.:40:10.

the specialist within two weeks target and meeting the first

:40:11.:40:14.

treatment within 31 days of diagnosis treatment and we are

:40:15.:40:17.

treatment within 31 days of currently falling short of the 62

:40:18.:40:17.

days target, something currently falling short of the 62

:40:18.:40:19.

said in the answer to question two currently falling short of the 62

:40:20.:40:26.

but he has not got around to it until question five. The cogs need

:40:27.:40:31.

to turn a little faster! He can't wash his hands of the situation in

:40:32.:40:36.

Wales, Labour run Wales. And what have they done in Wales? They have

:40:37.:40:43.

cut the NHS in Wales! Now it is emerging, what Labour's great plan

:40:44.:40:49.

is, cut the NHS in Wales and raise income tax on hard-working people in

:40:50.:40:53.

Scotland. That's right. What will they do to radiographers in

:40:54.:40:56.

Scotland, raise their taxes. What will they do to nurses in Scotland

:40:57.:41:02.

or dentists? Raise their taxes. We now know the Labour plan, higher

:41:03.:41:06.

taxes for more welfare, they have learned nothing in the last decade!

:41:07.:41:14.

Mr Speaker, the last time the two months target was mad was 19 months

:41:15.:41:18.

ago. The Prime Minister must be aware of that. -- the last time it

:41:19.:41:23.

was mad. I am pleased that he is taking action to make sure that

:41:24.:41:27.

doesn't continue all get worse. Another issue that affects cancer

:41:28.:41:30.

patient Dexter is the recently division and -- deleted provisions

:41:31.:41:36.

in the Welfare Reform Bill that would have taken money from the

:41:37.:41:43.

group. Martin, who contacted me this week, says, yes, it is funny the

:41:44.:41:46.

many members opposite, it isn't funny for Martin. Martin has a close

:41:47.:41:54.

friend who has breast cancer, and I quote, is obviously too unwell to

:41:55.:41:58.

work, and cuts will put her into hardship at a time when she is most

:41:59.:42:04.

vulnerable. There are 3200 people with cancer hit by this cut to the

:42:05.:42:08.

essay. Will the Prime Minister now confirm that when that matter

:42:09.:42:13.

returns to the House of Commons, he would ensure that the Lord's's

:42:14.:42:17.

position is app out and people like her don't suffer the cut that he

:42:18.:42:23.

wanted to make in the first place? -- the position is upheld. Let me

:42:24.:42:31.

tell you the situation. Though two sorts of support allowance, the

:42:32.:42:33.

work-related activity group who are able to train for work and the

:42:34.:42:38.

support group will go on getting employment and support allowance

:42:39.:42:41.

indefinitely. That's the situation. We have said that in future the

:42:42.:42:45.

work-related activity group should be paid at the same rate as

:42:46.:42:49.

jobseeker's allowance but that is for future claimants, not for

:42:50.:42:53.

existing claimants. They will continue to be paid at the same

:42:54.:42:58.

rate. Of course if someone has cancer and cannot work they should

:42:59.:43:02.

be in the support group. We've had this issue looked at again and again

:43:03.:43:07.

and again. If they cannot work they go on getting the welfare payments

:43:08.:43:11.

they need. That is what a compassionate conservative

:43:12.:43:14.

government does. But I have to come back to him because he cannot wash

:43:15.:43:20.

is hands of the situation in Wales. Hip operations in England take 75

:43:21.:43:26.

days waiting times on average, in Wales, its 197 days. Diagnosis of

:43:27.:43:35.

pneumonia takes two weeks longer, treatment of cataracts, Ernie Els,

:43:36.:43:38.

heart operations take two months longer than in England. Labour are

:43:39.:43:44.

running Wales. He is responsible for Labour. The phone and tell them to

:43:45.:43:50.

stop cutting our NHS! Keen Jeremy Corbyn. Mr Speaker it is interesting

:43:51.:43:58.

that the Prime Minister did not answer the question iPod. Which is

:43:59.:44:02.

whether or not he will proceed with the cut in the essay to 3200 people

:44:03.:44:10.

with cancer at present. -- in the support allowance. I hope he thinks

:44:11.:44:13.

seriously about this and doesn't proceed with this proposal. He'll

:44:14.:44:18.

find that MacMillan Cancer Support, rethink Meltham illness, Parkinson's

:44:19.:44:22.

UK are all united in opposing this cut because of the affected will

:44:23.:44:26.

have on people with a range of serious conditions. The Prime

:44:27.:44:30.

Minister used to say that those with the broadest shoulders should bear a

:44:31.:44:35.

greater load. Can it be right that cancer patients and those with

:44:36.:44:41.

disabilities on ?102 a week really are those with the broadest

:44:42.:44:46.

shoulders who should bear this cut? Please, Prime Minister, think again,

:44:47.:44:49.

and don't try to reverse the decision of the House of Lords on

:44:50.:44:54.

this important matter. The people with the broadest shoulders are the

:44:55.:44:57.

highest earners in this country and they are paying a higher share of

:44:58.:45:02.

tax and the ever did under labour. That money is paying for the NHS and

:45:03.:45:07.

the welfare assistant. I am the question very directly. If you are

:45:08.:45:10.

an existing claimant unemployment and support allowance welfare not

:45:11.:45:15.

changing. But in future those people who are able to work, we should help

:45:16.:45:20.

them to get back to work, that is what a compassionate country does

:45:21.:45:23.

when it is quite clear what the Labour policy is, cut the NHS in

:45:24.:45:29.

Wales and raise taxes in Scotland to pay for more welfare. That's not the

:45:30.:45:31.

approach this David Warburton. My right honourable

:45:32.:45:39.

friend will know the West Country is becoming ever more the envy and the

:45:40.:45:43.

engine room of the rest of the country, with dozens of companies

:45:44.:45:49.

moving from the dark recesses of London to the bright sunlight of the

:45:50.:45:54.

West. Will he keep supporting what they are now calling Somerset's

:45:55.:45:59.

Silicon Gorge by maintaining investment in our roads, rail and

:46:00.:46:06.

digital infrastructure? I am certainly keen to support Silicon

:46:07.:46:12.

Gorge. For a moment, I thought he said Silicon George! It is essential

:46:13.:46:18.

that we have a balanced economy, and that means a strong economy in the

:46:19.:46:22.

west of our country as well as in the South and the north. We are

:46:23.:46:25.

investing in the transport infrastructure, not least the vital

:46:26.:46:29.

roads to the West Country, and improving rail links as well, as I

:46:30.:46:33.

saw for myself yesterday in Chippenham. We also need to Mitch

:46:34.:46:37.

with this broadband roll-out is effective across the country, and

:46:38.:46:42.

that has to be a big focus getting to the last 10% of homes in so many

:46:43.:46:46.

rural areas. It is crucial to make sure they are not left out. Angus

:46:47.:46:51.

Robertson. The timing of the forthcoming European Union

:46:52.:46:56.

referendum is extremely important. Today, the first ministers of

:46:57.:47:00.

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have jointly called for a commitment

:47:01.:47:03.

by the UK Government not to hold the EU referendum in June, which would

:47:04.:47:09.

clash with elections to the devolved legislatures. Will the Prime

:47:10.:47:16.

Minister give that commitment today? Firstly, there is no agreement, so

:47:17.:47:19.

no date has yet been fixed for the referendum. We discuss this a lot in

:47:20.:47:24.

the House of Commons, and we legislate to make sure we wouldn't

:47:25.:47:27.

hold the referendum at the same time as Scottish or Welsh elections. The

:47:28.:47:32.

former First Minister of Scotland, who is not in his place today, said

:47:33.:47:36.

it would be wrong to hold the referendum within six weeks of those

:47:37.:47:39.

elections, and I can guarantee that will not happen. The first ministers

:47:40.:47:46.

of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have written today, saying

:47:47.:47:48.

that they believe holding a referendum in June "Risks confusing

:47:49.:47:55.

issues when clarity is required, and call upon the Prime Minister to

:47:56.:48:00.

defer the EU referendum at least until later in the year". Why will

:48:01.:48:06.

the Prime Minister not respect the electorate and the governments of

:48:07.:48:10.

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and give that commitment today? I do

:48:11.:48:16.

respect the former First Minister of Scotland, who said that six weeks

:48:17.:48:21.

was necessary. I also respect the electrodes of England, Scotland,

:48:22.:48:25.

Wales and Northern Ireland on the basis that I think people are

:48:26.:48:27.

perfectly capable of making up their minds in a local election or a

:48:28.:48:32.

Scottish Parliamentary election or a Welsh assembly election, and then,

:48:33.:48:36.

some weeks afterwards, making up their mind on the vital question of

:48:37.:48:43.

the European Union. No date has been fixed. There must be a six-week gap,

:48:44.:48:47.

but I think he is looking for things to complain about. This House has

:48:48.:48:53.

voted for a referendum. It would be odd if having voted for a

:48:54.:48:56.

referendum, we then spent ages not having one. The Prime Minister will

:48:57.:49:02.

be alarmed to hear that a shop in Gillingham selling illicit tobacco

:49:03.:49:10.

was making ?25,000. Order. Excessive chuntering from a sedentary position

:49:11.:49:12.

from a number of Scottish National Party members who wanted a hearing

:49:13.:49:16.

for their leader. The honourable gentleman is entitled to be heard. I

:49:17.:49:19.

appeal to the honourable gentleman to start his question again. The

:49:20.:49:24.

Prime Minister will be alarmed to hear that a shopping Gillingham

:49:25.:49:31.

selling illicit tobacco was making ?25,000 a week, destroying the local

:49:32.:49:34.

economy, damaging people's health and nationally, this trade is

:49:35.:49:39.

cutting the economy 2 billion a year. Will the government to look at

:49:40.:49:43.

increasing the statutory maximum penalty for this offence to bring it

:49:44.:49:46.

in line with the supply of class A drugs? -- Kas C drugs? I will look

:49:47.:49:54.

at the issue my honourable friend races. HMRC, working closely with

:49:55.:50:00.

the Border Force, has been effective in reducing this tax gap of people

:50:01.:50:04.

selling illegal tobacco, and have closed off 1.3 billion of tax gaps

:50:05.:50:08.

since 2000. They have sanctions to deal with illicit sales, including

:50:09.:50:13.

seizure, penalties and criminal situations. They prosecuted almost

:50:14.:50:18.

800 different people in the last two years, so I think the powers are

:50:19.:50:21.

there, but I will see if more is needed. My constituent works for the

:50:22.:50:27.

DWP and tells me that the government is correct when they deny that staff

:50:28.:50:31.

have targets set for sanctioning benefits. They are not called

:50:32.:50:34.

targets, they are

:50:35.:50:35.

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn are joined by Therese Coffey and Chris Bryant for reaction to David Cameron's EU reform package and PMQs. Also on the programme: the inconvenient disappearance of public conveniences!


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