05/02/2016 Daily Politics


05/02/2016

Andrew Neil is joined by the editor of The Independent, Amol Rajan, to discuss the latest political news, including David Cameron's EU negotiation.


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Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics

:00:38.:00:41.

David Cameron is back on the road selling his deal

:00:42.:00:43.

Will he be able to convince sceptical European governments

:00:44.:00:56.

or the European parliament even to sign up to it?

:00:57.:00:58.

Labour say 800,000 people have fallen off the electoral register.

:00:59.:01:00.

Is the government making it too difficult to vote?

:01:01.:01:02.

Is six hours of retail therapy plenty or should we be able to shop

:01:03.:01:07.

And is this Europe's most serious faultline?

:01:08.:01:11.

We visit the border that separates the two halves of Belgium.

:01:12.:01:17.

On this side we are in a Flemish town, that side is a Walloon town.

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All that in the next hour and with us for the first half

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of the programme today is the Editor of the Independent,

:01:43.:01:45.

He's cost the British taxpayer almost ?12 million since taking

:01:46.:01:48.

refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy to avoid arrest and extradition

:01:49.:01:51.

to Sweden on rape and sexual assault claims.

:01:52.:01:54.

Now a UN panel has ruled that the Wikileaks founder,

:01:55.:01:57.

Julian Assange, has been "arbitrarily detained" and should be

:01:58.:02:00.

compensated and allowed to walk free.

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Mr Assange is about to make an appearance at a press

:02:06.:02:08.

He is still in the Ecuadorian Embassy in Knightsbridge. Just at

:02:09.:02:21.

the back of Harrods. If any of you feel like making a visit. That is

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previous footage. He has not yet turned up to the press conference

:02:28.:02:29.

today. He had said that he would leave

:02:30.:02:31.

the Ecuadorian Embassy and face arrest had the UN panel

:02:32.:02:34.

ruled against him. I reject the finding

:02:35.:02:42.

of this working group, Julian Assange is a fugitive

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from justice, he is hiding from justice in the

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Ecuadorian embassy. He can come out onto the pavement

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any time he chooses. But he will have to face justice

:02:59.:03:07.

in Sweden if he chooses to do so. It is right that he should not be

:03:08.:03:11.

able to escape justice. This is frankly a ridiculous finding

:03:12.:03:15.

by the working group The suites have issued a European

:03:16.:03:28.

Arrest Warrant for Julian Assange for charges of rape and other

:03:29.:03:38.

charges. Is what -- in what way is the Foreign Secretary roll and the

:03:39.:03:45.

panel right? No way. Usually when Philip Hammond is required to say

:03:46.:03:50.

something he seems quite liked but he did quite well. Most people think

:03:51.:03:54.

this stinks. This is a UN panel working group. Laypeople. Not

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lawyers. Some of the courage implied they were international jewellers.

:04:03.:04:07.

The UN human rights Council is chaired by the Saudis. Well-known

:04:08.:04:19.

human rights defenders! Julian Assange's priced complexes getting

:04:20.:04:25.

more and more expensive. It is martyrdom -- --. This is a man who

:04:26.:04:42.

is wanted for rape. In Sweden. There are judicial system is famous for

:04:43.:04:47.

being one of the independent ones. He is a fugitive from justice. The

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sad thing is it has brought the UN into disrepute which has not had a

:04:54.:05:00.

good time of late. Julian Assange, everyone who has met him says he has

:05:01.:05:06.

the integrity of Beelzebub and the charm of a corporate. You are not

:05:07.:05:14.

doing his PR very well. I would be happy to speak to him, but he is not

:05:15.:05:17.

taking visitors, which is a shame. The question for today

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is all about onions, The French have apparently come up

:05:27.:05:30.

with a new spelling for onion. Is it: a) oignon b) ognon c)

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onion or d) zwiebel? A little later in the show Amol,

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who has GCSE French, The Prime Minister's embarked

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on another tour of European capitals in an effort to ensure

:05:47.:05:50.

that his draft deal meets with the approval of all

:05:51.:05:53.

the other 27 member states. He needs everything go one. -- every

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single. Poland has said it supports aspects

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of David Cameron's EU renegotiation package but plans to limit benefits

:06:05.:06:08.

for EU migrants need Because of the number of Polish

:06:09.:06:11.

workers in this country. Here he is speaking

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a little earlier. We want to see a full

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strategic partnership That is because of the shared

:06:24.:06:24.

interests and shared ideals Shared interests in strong defence

:06:25.:06:28.

and supporting Nato, and standing up to

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Russian aggression. Shared interests in terms

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of growing our economies and seeing them grow and integrate

:06:35.:06:37.

more closely together. Shared interests in making sure that

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Europe has genuine energy security. And shared interests in making sure

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that Europe is a Europe that respects and understands

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the importance of nation states and the role that they play,

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and proud nation states like Britain and Poland working

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together inside Europe. Well, the Prime Minister is racking

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up the air miles because he's now Our correspondent Ben Wright

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is in the Danish capital Copenhagen. I guess he can look forward to an

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easier time in Copan -- Copenhagen than in Warsaw? Yes, Denmark is a

:07:25.:07:30.

natural ally of the UK when it comes to the EU. It does not have the

:07:31.:07:36.

euro, it has history of referendum, a semidetached relationship with the

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European Union, so David Cameron will have a warm reception. He will

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be pleased with how his trip to Warsaw went. A Number 10 spokesman

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said there was more to do on the issue of welfare but the leader of

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the governing party, an important voice in Poland, has been seeing

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after meeting David Cameron that he is very pleased with the deal that

:08:01.:08:05.

Poland is getting on the issue of benefits, migrant benefits. He does

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that think there is a big problem, sounding very supportive. -- does

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not think there is a big problem. It sounds as if the potential problem

:08:17.:08:21.

of Poland is solved. Is David Cameron intending to visit all of

:08:22.:08:25.

the European capitals, two down and 25 to go, as ugly London does not

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count, is he doing a grand tour of Europe? -- presumably London. He has

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been doing a tour ahead of this really go she Asian. He has not been

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to Copenhagen yet. -- this negotiation. He was going to be here

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about a week ago but scrapped that so he did go to Brussels and meet

:08:52.:09:01.

Jean-Claude Juncker. He has been do a visit to Copenhagen. He has done a

:09:02.:09:05.

lot of shuttle diplomacy moving around European capitals over the

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last few months. It is the first time he has done Copenhagen since he

:09:11.:09:15.

began the renegotiation. He will get an easy time, a warm reception, but

:09:16.:09:21.

he is doing a lot of work to make sure that he nails down the details

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of this renegotiation and when he sits down with every other EU leader

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in a fortnight that they are on board. That is what this process is

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about over the next fortnight. Thank you.

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We're joined now from Brussels by Guy Verhofstadt.

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The former Prime Minister of Belgium, he is now the leader

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of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe

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In your view, does the European Parliament have a veto over the

:09:50.:10:04.

Cameron settlement? Not a veto, but one of the main points of the

:10:05.:10:11.

agreement, of the potential agreement, is a change in what we

:10:12.:10:16.

call secondary legislation, or that means that Council and Parliament as

:10:17.:10:26.

to agree on the proposal and that cannot be done in the normal

:10:27.:10:32.

legislative procedures. All think of work benefits is classic legislation

:10:33.:10:35.

in which the European Parliament plays a full role. Can you clarify?

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Will the parliament vote on the overall settlement or bullet ward

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one parts of the settlement that have legislative consequences? It is

:10:49.:10:55.

the part where it has legislative consequences and that is for later.

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Once agreement has been done in European Council the crucial part of

:11:02.:11:08.

the settlement, this agreement, will be put through the normal

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legislative procedure through the European Parliament and it is the

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full responsibility of the European Parliament to accept, change, modify

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it. The general feeling in the European Parliament is that this

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goes through, the whole agreement, because we think that you are better

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off with Britain inside the European Union than outside. For obvious

:11:32.:11:36.

economic and precisely for geopolitical reasons. I understand.

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Let me look at the details where the settlement could run into trouble.

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The red card arrangement that David Cameron has managed to get into the

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settlement so far. 15 European parliaments within 12 weeks could

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cause the commission and or the council to think again. Does that

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have to go through the European Parliament and do you think they

:12:08.:12:15.

would vote for that or not? No. It is an internal commitment inside the

:12:16.:12:19.

European Council. It is the European Council. If you have to decide we

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have to decide as European Council and if a number of these majority,

:12:29.:12:33.

55, of these national parliaments, are against that, we shall stop this

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part of the legislation. That is an internal commitment. It has nothing

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to do with what is foreseen in the treaty. The treaty there is a

:12:44.:12:48.

similar procedure that is first seen so it is not so now. It is

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duplicating a little bit what is in the treaty. For the Prime Minister

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may be the most important part that he has managed to negotiate into the

:13:01.:13:05.

settlement, in work benefits for migrants coming from the EU to this

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country, future migrants would not qualify for a fool in work benefits

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straightaway but would be graduated over four years. What with the

:13:17.:13:21.

Parliament's attitude be? It is impossible to predict because I

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cannot see already what is going to be the position of the different

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groups. The general feeling in the Parliament is that this has to be

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system in the hands of the European Commission other than of one member

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state. The proposal on the table sees a system in which it is the

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European Commission who is proposing to the other member states. The

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second filling in the Parliament is light does not exaggerate. Maybe it

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is a problem in Britain but when you see it in general Labour mobility

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inside the European Union is so also what we are talking about, it is ten

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times lower than the mobility in the United States. One of the

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consequences of this is that there are 2 million vacancies in the

:14:17.:14:22.

European Union. We are broadcasting from a country where net migration

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was over 300,000 so labour mobility is not a big issue in Britain. That

:14:28.:14:35.

could be. When you compare yourself to your counterparts in the US it is

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a very low figure. American labour mobility has always been high. 2

:14:44.:14:47.

million Americans cross state boundaries every year for jobs. That

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is not the issue. Is it possible that the European Parliament could

:14:56.:14:59.

change elements of their settlement after Britain has voted in a

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referendum? I can only tell you that there is vote part is on the

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classical legislative procedure so that means that, and the council,

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and the Parliament, are discussing together, changing, modifying, what

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is in this, but we are involved. The negotiations have started this

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morning. I am one of the representatives. We are not waiting

:15:30.:15:34.

until the end of the legislative procedure. What parts of the

:15:35.:15:40.

settlement would you think of voting against?

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In general, what I think we have to do, to take this serious leak, we

:15:45.:15:50.

are positive towards a reform of the European Union, and we want to

:15:51.:15:55.

secure and help Mr Cameron -- seriously. We want to help the

:15:56.:16:03.

public opinion in Great Britain, and that this will become signed in the

:16:04.:16:11.

treaty. The thing is David Cameron is asking for, the European Union

:16:12.:16:16.

needs another number of reforms, government for the euro, defence

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security, the different crisis we are facing, the refugee crisis,

:16:25.:16:29.

geopolitical, they are asking and requesting a more integration on the

:16:30.:16:36.

continent. They will be no treaty change either side of the German or

:16:37.:16:40.

French elections next J, that is the reality. -- next year. But we can

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start to prepare to work on them. If we play it very well, we can do the

:16:50.:16:55.

situation very well for Britain and for the union. They are asking for

:16:56.:17:01.

special status, let's give it to them, but let's also secure a

:17:02.:17:04.

further deepening of the European Union, further integration, to give

:17:05.:17:09.

us the possibility and the capability to fight against a

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different crisis. But will you do that in the knowledge that it is

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well-nigh impossible for Britain to be part of the deeper political

:17:22.:17:27.

integration? That is what we recognise, we recognise the request

:17:28.:17:31.

of the British government under David Cameron to have a separate

:17:32.:17:35.

status inside the union and that is what we have tried to do, to bring

:17:36.:17:41.

together the request of the British population in general, to not be so

:17:42.:17:46.

involved in European Union integration, and also more European

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integration for the other parts of the European Union, for the

:17:50.:17:52.

Eurozone, it is necessary. We can find each other, Mr Cameron asking

:17:53.:17:58.

on the one hand for a special treatment, and at the same time Mr

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Cameron recognising that the rest of Europe and the Eurozone has two

:18:03.:18:06.

further go into a deeper integration. It is a win win

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settlement, that is what we will try to achieve. We will find out more as

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the weeks progress and I hope that we can talk to you so that you can

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mark our card as the developments take place. Thanks for joining us.

:18:22.:18:30.

That was interesting. There have been rumblings at the European

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Parliament, that they could cause trouble for this settlement and that

:18:34.:18:37.

would be a real setback for David Cameron, but I did not detect that

:18:38.:18:41.

in the interview. I did not detect that, but many of the viewers, said

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there is a view in Scunthorpe, worried about immigration. We do

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have a viewer in Scunthorpe! This is a Eurocrat who has said Labour

:18:55.:18:58.

mobility is not a problem, but we know 80% of the population says

:18:59.:19:01.

immigration is the thing they are most worried about, and so that is a

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patronising view, very elitist Brussels view, and that makes people

:19:06.:19:10.

say, the EU is out of touch, and I'm sure the guest from Ukip will say

:19:11.:19:16.

that a man like that is out of touch with the British public. OK, we will

:19:17.:19:26.

stick with Europe. The referendum is a fight between those who want to

:19:27.:19:30.

stay and those who want to leave? Not quite. One of the campaign

:19:31.:19:36.

groups has complained about its ongoing struggle with complained

:19:37.:19:40.

about its ongoing struggle with which is a rival struggle with which

:19:41.:19:43.

is a rival campaign group, despite wanting the same result -- ongoing

:19:44.:19:57.

struggle with Vote Leave. And there is also the idea that Labour Leave

:19:58.:20:08.

have been arguing with Vote Leave. What is happening? Just say you

:20:09.:20:14.

don't lose the will to live, I will try to cut to the latest in this

:20:15.:20:18.

very long tail of infighting and Civil War. We have these different

:20:19.:20:25.

groups campaigning for the outside, and they want to win the official

:20:26.:20:28.

designation going into the campaign, because they get public money and

:20:29.:20:35.

they will get TV broadcasts and free mailshots, so that is why there are

:20:36.:20:38.

these different groups, and now we have Vote Leave and Vote.LeaveEU.

:20:39.:20:52.

And now Labour Leave has said it has had enough of the infighting going

:20:53.:20:59.

on at Vote Leave and it will take itself away, cut the ties it has had

:21:00.:21:05.

with Vote Leave and be an independent organisation, and one of

:21:06.:21:10.

the co-chairs is the MP Kate Hoey, who said she will not support Vote

:21:11.:21:15.

Leave any more, in its bid to be the official out campaign voice. They

:21:16.:21:20.

want to be an independent organisation and work with the

:21:21.:21:24.

grassroots campaigns. Added to that, we have a letter leaked to the Times

:21:25.:21:28.

newspaper, written by John Mills, the Labour Party donor, he is deputy

:21:29.:21:37.

chair of Vote Leave. Writing to two people on the board, who used to be

:21:38.:21:43.

on the board at Vote Leave, he says they have got to stop the bickering,

:21:44.:21:46.

and that they have lost the backing of Kate Hoey. If you are still with

:21:47.:21:57.

me... Only just! LAUGHTER One of the chairs of Vote.LeaveEU,

:21:58.:22:02.

who has back rolled their campaign, he says those men who used to be on

:22:03.:22:09.

the board of Vote Leave, Matthew Elliott and Dominic Cummings, they

:22:10.:22:12.

are no longer on the board, but they are still running the campaign. --

:22:13.:22:17.

bankrolled. He says they are to the nastiest individuals he has ever met

:22:18.:22:20.

any but not put them in charge of a shop. -- and he would. Vote Leave

:22:21.:22:28.

say they are not getting involved in any of this, and they say they have

:22:29.:22:31.

seen the letter and they wishing well. Very well. I will now go and

:22:32.:22:40.

lie in a dark room and recover! If you want to win a political campaign

:22:41.:22:44.

you have got to make it simple and true, but right now the end campaign

:22:45.:22:48.

have a ambassador in David Cameron who is working very hard, and the

:22:49.:22:54.

out campaign to not have a clear and simple message and they don't have a

:22:55.:22:57.

leadership. -- right now the Inn campaign. Yet they are ten points

:22:58.:23:04.

ahead in the latest poll for new guv, apparently. -- you go.

:23:05.:23:11.

Is six hours enough time to go shopping on a Sunday?

:23:12.:23:14.

I can't understand why anyone would want to shop on a Sunday

:23:15.:23:17.

with so many fine political programmes to watch.

:23:18.:23:19.

But the government wants local authorities in England and Wales

:23:20.:23:24.

to have the power to allow shops to open for longer.

:23:25.:23:27.

Here's the Business Secretary, Sajid Javid, earlier this week.

:23:28.:23:29.

We will introduce amendments in this bill to allow local authorities

:23:30.:23:31.

to decide whether to extend hours in their areas.

:23:32.:23:36.

Central government will not be dictating how to use this power.

:23:37.:23:39.

The decision will be entirely local, reflecting local preferences,

:23:40.:23:41.

shopping habits and economic conditions.

:23:42.:23:45.

If the people of Bromsgrove or Barking say they want to see

:23:46.:23:49.

longer Sunday opening hours, who are we here in Westminster

:23:50.:23:51.

Not everyone on the Government's own benches are happy with the idea

:23:52.:23:58.

Among them Stewart Jackson, who joins us now from his

:23:59.:24:02.

You are outside the cathedral, I would say. The Conservatives always

:24:03.:24:14.

boast they are the party of devolution, that they people decide.

:24:15.:24:21.

-- let the people decide. You must welcome the idea this is a matter

:24:22.:24:27.

for local councils? I think this is driven by our manifesto commitment

:24:28.:24:31.

to create 2 million private sector jobs, and that is a laudable aim,

:24:32.:24:36.

but you only have to look back in history, 20-30 years to see the mess

:24:37.:24:43.

Margaret Thatcher got into over this issue, she had a huge majority and

:24:44.:24:48.

lost it. I'm not convinced there's strong economic case that economic

:24:49.:24:55.

prosperity will follow from the liberalisation of Sunday shopping

:24:56.:24:59.

hours and there are many people on the Conservative backbenchers who

:25:00.:25:02.

follow similar views. Why should it not be a matter for local

:25:03.:25:05.

government, taking into account local feelings and the local demand?

:25:06.:25:14.

Rather than being determined by MPs. I absolutely agree, and when I spoke

:25:15.:25:19.

to the Prime Minister earlier in the way, I said to him, I thought the

:25:20.:25:24.

best way forward to avoid a needless row with backbenchers is to have a

:25:25.:25:28.

competitive regime where local authorities who are worried about

:25:29.:25:34.

voids in their retail town centres and out-of-town shopping centres and

:25:35.:25:37.

also the internet, they can bid to vary their regime for shopping and

:25:38.:25:44.

then we can look at it in 18 months, and if it has been a success we can

:25:45.:25:47.

roll it out to all local authorities across the country, and that seems

:25:48.:25:53.

to be a fair compromise. We are looking at some very serious

:25:54.:25:57.

concerns from the shop workers unions, faith groups, and also

:25:58.:26:01.

issues around quality-of-life, but more importantly, convenience stores

:26:02.:26:07.

might suffer as a result of these changes in legislation. You are

:26:08.:26:14.

going to vote against the measure, how big will the rebellion be on the

:26:15.:26:20.

Conservatives side? I can't hear anything. Let me try again.

:26:21.:26:27.

Certainly people have looked at figures around their tea, I do think

:26:28.:26:31.

it will be a massive rebellion, it will not be like the EU referendum

:26:32.:26:38.

rebellion -- figures around 30. It will be a problem for a government

:26:39.:26:42.

with a small majority and it will depend on the Scottish National

:26:43.:26:46.

party and what undertakings are made to them to prevent them from voting

:26:47.:26:48.

against the government this legislation. Since we have got you

:26:49.:26:52.

here. How has the David Cameron legislation. Since we have got you

:26:53.:27:03.

settlement and the EU -- on the EU, if we can call it that, how is that

:27:04.:27:08.

going down on the backbenches and in your constituency? Can you hear me?

:27:09.:27:25.

We seem to have lost him. Lines are down to Peterborough, there we go.

:27:26.:27:32.

Here we go. You have another is peace, can you hear me? I have

:27:33.:27:36.

another BBC gizmo. -- ear piece. peace, can you hear me? I have

:27:37.:27:51.

was asking, how has the EU settlement, such as it is so far,

:27:52.:27:56.

how has that gone down with your colleagues on the Tory backbenches

:27:57.:28:04.

and people in your constituency? There is a sense of palpable

:28:05.:28:08.

disappointment, we wish the Prime Minister well, people like me have

:28:09.:28:12.

kept their counsel for several months, because we believe that he

:28:13.:28:18.

was going to make good on his pledges at the Bloomberg speech in

:28:19.:28:26.

2013, for a radical renegotiation of our relationship and action

:28:27.:28:28.

repatriating powers, but what we have seen, unfortunately, does not

:28:29.:28:35.

stack up -- actually repatriating. Despite the best efforts of the

:28:36.:28:38.

Prime Minister, the European Union is set on ever closer union and is

:28:39.:28:42.

fundamentally not something that can be reformed. We heard from the

:28:43.:28:47.

former trimester Belgian, he seems to be happy with a system where the

:28:48.:28:52.

core of the European Union, the Eurozone continues with further

:28:53.:28:56.

integration, but Britain does not need to be involved in this -- the

:28:57.:29:01.

former Prime Minister of Belgium. That seems to be something the Prime

:29:02.:29:04.

Minister has emphasised in this settlement. That is all well and

:29:05.:29:10.

good, but very eminent people have said that without the toes and

:29:11.:29:18.

treaties in place, the blandishments and agreements made to David Cameron

:29:19.:29:25.

will effectively in the future, if we vote to remain, will be worthless

:29:26.:29:35.

vetos -- vetos and treaties. Unless we have treaty change, we can't give

:29:36.:29:41.

effect to our very serious concerns about the future direction with our

:29:42.:29:46.

country in the European Union. What about your constituency? The Prime

:29:47.:29:52.

Minister says you should not listen to your constituency is said Shea

:29:53.:29:55.

shows on this issue, you have got to make up your own mind. --

:29:56.:30:02.

constituency associations. You don't know me very well, if that was the

:30:03.:30:11.

case! It was a question. LAUGHTER I understand what he is saying, this

:30:12.:30:15.

is a fundamental issue and you should go with your head and your

:30:16.:30:19.

heart. I will be consulting my constituents, they know where I

:30:20.:30:22.

stand and have done since I resigned from a government post in 2011 to

:30:23.:30:29.

campaign for a EU referendum. The Prime Minister's words were

:30:30.:30:31.

misconstrued, he has a job to do and he will take his position. We have

:30:32.:30:36.

got to unite again as a party of government after this referendum and

:30:37.:30:41.

we should keep civilised and moderate in our time. Thanks for

:30:42.:30:46.

joining us. We thank you for being civilised and moderate in dealing

:30:47.:30:47.

with the dodgy ear piece. Labour claim that 800,000 people

:30:48.:30:58.

have disappeared from the electoral register since the government

:30:59.:31:00.

introduced changes to the way that In the past the head of a household

:31:01.:31:03.

could register all eligible voters Now voters have to

:31:04.:31:07.

register individually. And, as Giles reports,

:31:08.:31:10.

there are also concerns about the obstacles faced

:31:11.:31:12.

by those with disabilities. Last year's general election

:31:13.:31:15.

programme as most of us If you are blind, of course,

:31:16.:31:21.

it was more like this, but apart from not seeing the story

:31:22.:31:28.

unfold, there's no reason why such a disability should exclude

:31:29.:31:33.

you from the process. Provided you have registered

:31:34.:31:35.

to vote, and there is the issue. This is the government's own website

:31:36.:31:40.

and it boasts that it takes five minutes to register

:31:41.:31:43.

to vote individually which is what the government

:31:44.:31:44.

wants us all to do. It points out you need a bit

:31:45.:31:48.

of data about yourself, you can register by post,

:31:49.:31:50.

and you can even get It points out, if you are a Crown

:31:51.:31:53.

servant, a diplomat, for example, or in the Armed Forces,

:31:54.:31:57.

there are separate forms. What it doesn't mention, anywhere,

:31:58.:32:02.

is any information you could look up and advise for a friend

:32:03.:32:06.

who was blind about how Nowhere, nothing,

:32:07.:32:08.

not a phone number. And that, some people say,

:32:09.:32:11.

points to a wider problem about how easy it is being made for people

:32:12.:32:17.

to register to vote. If there was cross-party support

:32:18.:32:20.

for electronic voting and automatic registration,

:32:21.:32:25.

it would help a lot more people Personally, I think young disabled

:32:26.:32:27.

people can find it a turn-off if they can't vote in secret

:32:28.:32:38.

or if information that they need to educate themselves

:32:39.:32:41.

about politics is inaccessible. For the record, blind people can

:32:42.:32:43.

call their local council's election officer and organise

:32:44.:32:45.

to be registered. But so far many haven't,

:32:46.:32:47.

meaning their voices are not But are the government turning

:32:48.:32:50.

a blind eye to a wider problem? The change to individual voting

:32:51.:32:56.

registration also means that according to Bite The Ballot over

:32:57.:33:00.

800,000 people seem to have disappeared from the previous

:33:01.:33:02.

electoral roll, and they are not happy with the government's

:33:03.:33:05.

explanations. At the moment we are making it

:33:06.:33:09.

as difficult rather than as easy In other words we are making our

:33:10.:33:12.

democracy as awkward Yes, he is a former Labour Cabinet

:33:13.:33:17.

minister, now a lord, There is no doubt that changing

:33:18.:33:24.

boundaries and removing the number of members of Parliament,

:33:25.:33:33.

precluding trade unions from funding parties who are fighting

:33:34.:33:37.

in our democracy, and changing the registration system which has

:33:38.:33:42.

already resulted in large numbers dropping off, has to be seen

:33:43.:33:46.

in the context of a government which believes that what is best

:33:47.:33:51.

for it is best for the nation. We were hoping to speak

:33:52.:33:58.

to a minister about this afternoon, but at the last minute we were told

:33:59.:34:02.

no one was available. "Individual electoral registration

:34:03.:34:17.

is an essential measure We have worked hard with local

:34:18.:34:19.

authorities for years now to clean up the register -

:34:20.:34:22.

any entries removed will be people who have moved house,

:34:23.:34:25.

died or never existed because they It's time now to find out

:34:26.:34:28.

the answer to our quiz. Coming up in a moment

:34:29.:34:39.

it's our regular look at what's been For now it's time to say

:34:40.:34:58.

goodbye to Amol Rajan - So for the next half an hour we're

:34:59.:35:01.

going to be focussing We'll be looking at how the draft

:35:02.:35:05.

deal on the UK's EU membership is going down elsewhere in Europe,

:35:06.:35:10.

the prospect of borders being introduced across

:35:11.:35:13.

the continent in the wake of the migrant crisis and we'll

:35:14.:35:15.

focus on the home of so many First, though, here's our guide

:35:16.:35:18.

to the latest from Europe - The deal has finally been struck

:35:19.:35:23.

between member states in the European Commission

:35:24.:35:35.

to fund humanitarian aid The UK will be the second

:35:36.:35:37.

largest contributor. The European Union and the USA have

:35:38.:35:43.

agreed new rules to allow companies like Google or Facebook

:35:44.:35:46.

to process personal data It has rumbled on for years

:35:47.:35:48.

and privacy groups still In Rome, officials met to review

:35:49.:35:51.

the fight against so-called Islamic Amid warnings that the group

:35:52.:35:55.

were threatening Libya. But IS has lost a significant amount

:35:56.:35:58.

of territory recently. We have had ups and downs,

:35:59.:36:03.

but more recently more German border police should shoot

:36:04.:36:06.

at refugees entering the country illegally, according

:36:07.:36:14.

to the far right AFD party. But their remarks

:36:15.:36:17.

were roundly condemned. And the European Parliament

:36:18.:36:18.

will allow diesel cars to emit double the legal emission limit

:36:19.:36:20.

of nitrogen oxide until 2020. Extra leeway has been given

:36:21.:36:24.

because actual emissions are four And with us for the next 30 minutes

:36:25.:36:27.

I've been joined by Labour MEP, Richard Howitt and Ukip

:36:28.:36:39.

MEP James Carver. Let's talk first about the ?7

:36:40.:36:45.

billion worth of aid that's been pledged to help Syrian

:36:46.:36:49.

refugees, ?2.3 billion of it A big chunk coming from Britain as

:36:50.:37:02.

well. Hundreds of millions have been spent on refugees in the region. The

:37:03.:37:05.

flow of migrants is still spent on refugees in the region. The

:37:06.:37:09.

increasing. Why would more money make any difference? It would make

:37:10.:37:12.

more difference if you are make any difference? It would make

:37:13.:37:17.

refugee city in a camp and your food ration is $19 a day. -- $19 a month.

:37:18.:37:25.

Not enough to buy a loaf of bread for a family of seven. I understand

:37:26.:37:32.

the humanitarian reason but this is a vast sums of money of which

:37:33.:37:36.

Britain is a big part but it is being sold as money well spent not

:37:37.:37:40.

just because it will help people to survive but because it will stop the

:37:41.:37:45.

outflow. There is no evidence that is the case. I partly accept that

:37:46.:37:51.

but it is a pretty dirty deal of the only reason Britain or Europe would

:37:52.:37:55.

give money to help with refugees is to stop refugees coming here. What

:37:56.:38:01.

we have to do first and foremost is manage the

:38:02.:38:03.

we have to do first and foremost is the war in Syria and I am involved

:38:04.:38:07.

in a lot of activity. The talks have broken down.

:38:08.:38:15.

in a lot of activity. The talks have done in London less than half a mile

:38:16.:38:18.

from here Russian aircraft and Assad ground troops were pummelling the

:38:19.:38:24.

from here Russian aircraft and Assad biggest city in Syria. Everybody

:38:25.:38:28.

needs to take a compassionate approach. The National Audit Office

:38:29.:38:32.

have said so much of the aid has not been

:38:33.:38:40.

have said so much of the aid has not International Development

:38:41.:38:41.

have said so much of the aid has not concerns over whether the aid is

:38:42.:38:44.

reaching where it should be going. We shall keep an eye on it because

:38:45.:38:49.

the situation is dire for the refugees. We have worked

:38:50.:38:55.

painstakingly to get Iran and Saudi Arabia to the table. The talks

:38:56.:38:59.

happened and the alternative is to do nothing and after five years of

:39:00.:39:01.

civil war... We need to move on. Now, earlier this week the draft

:39:02.:39:07.

deal aimed at satisfying the UK's David Cameron says there will be

:39:08.:39:10.

plenty of intense negotiations to follow before a final document

:39:11.:39:14.

is signed off, but just to get this far has been a hard trek

:39:15.:39:19.

for the Prime Minister. Setting off on his EU reform journey

:39:20.:39:25.

before the election, David Cameron said that he wanted

:39:26.:39:27.

to ban EU migrants from getting The draft proposal suggests only

:39:28.:39:30.

a graduated access to benefits from initial complete exclusion

:39:31.:39:35.

and increases over the four year 28 different trial benefits. --

:39:36.:39:42.

the child lives. 28 different trial benefits. --

:39:43.:39:53.

Child. The UK can also apply

:39:54.:39:54.

for an emergency brake on welfare, but it's not completely clear how

:39:55.:39:57.

that brake is pulled and for how The PM also set himself a milestone

:39:58.:40:00.

of protection for economies which have not adopted the euro

:40:01.:40:04.

and on this the draft delivers, prohibiting discrimination

:40:05.:40:07.

between currencies. Another aim of David Cameron's

:40:08.:40:08.

expedition was to get Britain out of ever closer union

:40:09.:40:12.

with the European Union. The draft does recognise that the UK

:40:13.:40:16.

is not committed to further political integration

:40:17.:40:19.

into the European Union. And the Prime Minister also called

:40:20.:40:25.

for sovereignty of national But this looks like set to be

:40:26.:40:27.

an uphill slog for the PM, with confusion about what his red

:40:28.:40:35.

card realistically means in terms of giving national parliaments

:40:36.:40:43.

greater powers to club together The summit may be in sight,

:40:44.:40:45.

but it is also unclear what powers MEPs might have to reject

:40:46.:40:49.

the so called emergency brake, limit child benefits and a ban

:40:50.:40:54.

on so called sham marriages which could leave the

:40:55.:40:57.

British PM in hot water. We're joined now from Brussels

:40:58.:41:03.

by the Conservative MEP Are you broadly happy with what the

:41:04.:41:15.

Prime Minister has achieved? The Prime Minister has set out his clear

:41:16.:41:19.

agenda and has been and got support from all of the other member states

:41:20.:41:24.

so far and has the final act to go. Yes, I am happy. He has set his

:41:25.:41:31.

priorities and got what he aimed for in all four areas and I am being he

:41:32.:41:35.

can deliver in that final set of negotiations at the middle of this

:41:36.:41:42.

month. In what way has UK sovereignty been enhanced by the

:41:43.:41:46.

settlement? There are several things within that. It was very important

:41:47.:41:51.

we are excluded from the ever closer union is specially as the eurozone

:41:52.:41:56.

countries decide to get closer in terms of their political and fiscal

:41:57.:42:01.

union, so for us it was important we were differentiated outside of that

:42:02.:42:07.

was no intention of joining. We are outside, so that is reinforcing the

:42:08.:42:11.

status quo. In what way was sovereignty enhanced? No. There was

:42:12.:42:17.

big issue is resolved in terms of going forward. To make sure we were

:42:18.:42:22.

well out of that was important. The red card system, a system where if

:42:23.:42:27.

there is a piece of legislation that does not suit us for whatever reason

:42:28.:42:30.

and is impacting on our economy we would be able to with others

:42:31.:42:35.

collectively say that it is not acceptable. That does not enhance

:42:36.:42:40.

British sovereignty, that involves getting together 15 other

:42:41.:42:43.

parliaments within a 12 week period and some of these parliaments

:42:44.:42:48.

rebelling and voting against the stated position of their elected

:42:49.:42:52.

governments. That is a mechanism, nothing to do with British

:42:53.:42:57.

sovereignty. In terms of member states having more say over the

:42:58.:43:01.

legislation a key part of that part of the document is that member

:43:02.:43:04.

states will have more of the regulation done at national level

:43:05.:43:08.

and lessen European Michael and that is something the UK and other

:43:09.:43:14.

European states are calling for, so in terms of sovereignty what can be

:43:15.:43:17.

done at national level will be done from now on and that is an important

:43:18.:43:22.

part of that section that seems to have been overlooked over the last

:43:23.:43:29.

few days. Could this settlement run into trouble in the European

:43:30.:43:34.

Parliament? We have three representatives. I met with someone

:43:35.:43:44.

and they have of Labour, and there is a strong will to help Britain

:43:45.:43:49.

stay in the European Union. This is the message the British electorate

:43:50.:43:53.

should hear, that our fellow countries, despite the frustrations,

:43:54.:43:58.

do not want Britain to leave. Francois Hollande, I have sat

:43:59.:44:02.

internal meetings listening to him, he has said this week he can be part

:44:03.:44:07.

of the compromise that that shows the will across Europe to support

:44:08.:44:13.

us. Francois Hollande is not a member of the European Parliament.

:44:14.:44:16.

Will the European Parliament be so in the British side in this

:44:17.:44:21.

settlement process? I can tell you how I will be voting. There are

:44:22.:44:26.

three representatives of the European Parliament from the three

:44:27.:44:32.

groups, not a representative from my group and two other groups. A very

:44:33.:44:38.

different approach to the direction in the European Union. If elements

:44:39.:44:42.

of this deal come before the European Parliament will use vote

:44:43.:44:48.

against it? I have to. This is further than hashing a debate on

:44:49.:44:51.

what is conceivable and inconceivable. It is about what is

:44:52.:44:57.

not in this renegotiation. Supremacy for the British Parliament.

:44:58.:45:03.

Supremacy of the European Court. The working Time directive. He has not

:45:04.:45:08.

achieved anything. A manifesto pledge that he put in last year's

:45:09.:45:13.

general election. That shows how little power we have.

:45:14.:45:22.

Kay, If this was watered down further, if some of it is taken back

:45:23.:45:27.

a bit, given that so many of your colleagues in London think it's a

:45:28.:45:33.

pretty watered-down document, it could not survive further watering

:45:34.:45:41.

down? I have to restate that, there are people who fully support the

:45:42.:45:47.

Prime Minister's negotiations and think he has gone after the right

:45:48.:45:50.

things and think he's doing a very good job. What if they are

:45:51.:45:56.

watered-down further? This is a negotiation, there are things on the

:45:57.:45:59.

table at the moment. I know that, so what about if it is watered-down

:46:00.:46:04.

further? I have faith that the primaries to is going to get his

:46:05.:46:08.

negotiation at the level he is anticipating and that we will be

:46:09.:46:13.

able to support him in his actions -- I have faith that the Prime

:46:14.:46:17.

Minister is going. We have good will and we will be acting upon the

:46:18.:46:18.

goodwill. Thanks for joining us. Now - is the dream of

:46:19.:46:23.

a borderless Europe at an end? The arrival of over a million

:46:24.:46:26.

migrants over the last year has prompted many EU countries -

:46:27.:46:29.

formerly in the borderless "schengen" area -

:46:30.:46:31.

to re-erect their borders. Jo Coburn has visited the

:46:32.:46:37.

Denmark/Sweden border where crossing the famous Orsen bridge

:46:38.:46:39.

between the two countries has been You might have seen the TV detective

:46:40.:46:42.

series based on it. Security checks at the last station

:46:43.:46:48.

in Denmark before crossing This new border control

:46:49.:46:50.

is disrupting the journeys of thousands of commuters

:46:51.:46:56.

who used to travel freely Here we have no border for 50 years

:46:57.:46:59.

and suddenly we get a border People are really shocked

:47:00.:47:18.

and disappointed because they think they have not expected

:47:19.:47:23.

that they have to show a passport to

:47:24.:47:25.

come home from work. The border controls have been

:47:26.:47:27.

introduced as a result of a new Swedish law to deal

:47:28.:47:30.

with the unprecedented flow of migrants travelling through

:47:31.:47:32.

Denmark and into Sweden. This week, Sweden's migration

:47:33.:47:40.

minister travelled to Copenhagen to meet his Danish counterpart

:47:41.:47:43.

and justify the new controls. In four months, September,

:47:44.:47:48.

October, November, December, In the whole year 2015 there arrived

:47:49.:47:54.

163,000 people to Sweden. It is as if in the UK

:47:55.:48:03.

there would have There is no doubt the new law has

:48:04.:48:10.

slowed down the daily commute, but is it also the end

:48:11.:48:17.

of the line for The Oresund Bridge is so much more

:48:18.:48:20.

than just an impressive It is a symbol of open borders that

:48:21.:48:30.

has powered this region There are fears that

:48:31.:48:36.

vision is fading away. I am optimistic they

:48:37.:48:40.

will find a better way to manage the ID control

:48:41.:48:42.

because we cannot live with Checkpoint Charlie

:48:43.:48:45.

in Copenhagen airport between Denmark and Sweden

:48:46.:48:47.

so we have to find a way to make it I've arrived in Sweden

:48:48.:48:51.

and here are the police again, something you would not

:48:52.:48:57.

have seen six weeks ago. We've stopped just before Malmo

:48:58.:49:01.

and ID is checked again. Sweden is facing a new political

:49:02.:49:04.

challenge as attitudes Something that worries the political

:49:05.:49:15.

editor of the regional We have gone from being

:49:16.:49:17.

extremely liberal and a very unusual approach for Europe

:49:18.:49:23.

to approaching almost There was a panic reaction

:49:24.:49:26.

and it was assumed that nothing we have previously believed

:49:27.:49:33.

will work for this particular situation and to me that is a lack

:49:34.:49:37.

of faith in your own policies that makes me worried for

:49:38.:49:41.

other policies as well. It is not just in Sweden where

:49:42.:49:43.

the political weather is changing. In Copenhagen the Danish parliament

:49:44.:49:47.

recently passed a law giving authorities the power

:49:48.:49:52.

to seize the assets of asylum seekers, a move that has

:49:53.:49:56.

been widely criticised. in Denmark and your family's stay

:49:57.:50:03.

in Denmark then you should pay. is a step in the right direction

:50:04.:50:13.

and we will continue to work for even more tighter rules

:50:14.:50:17.

on refugee issues and migration to Denmark, for instance

:50:18.:50:22.

from the Middle East, Shane Den is on life support, it is

:50:23.:50:25.

search for a solution. Shane Den is on life support, it is

:50:26.:50:47.

de facto, just not operating -- Shane Den is on life support, it is

:50:48.:50:54.

Schengen. You are right, there will be a vote in the referendum. There

:50:55.:51:00.

are intense pressures at the moment, and there are two points about that,

:51:01.:51:04.

it really makes the point that Britain has opted out of borderless

:51:05.:51:08.

travel, we have opted out of immigration. At the European level.

:51:09.:51:17.

It is a fact of life. Are you happy? When Eurosceptics want to make the

:51:18.:51:20.

debate in Britain about the fact we have open borders, it is not true.

:51:21.:51:24.

We were right not to go into Schengen? I would like us to manage

:51:25.:51:30.

We were right not to go into migration in Europe better and to be

:51:31.:51:35.

part of the EU negotiation scheme. I said, was it a sensible decision not

:51:36.:51:41.

to have participated in Schengen? Yes, because we are an island nation

:51:42.:51:45.

and we have given opportunities to defend our borders, and what is

:51:46.:51:49.

wrong with that? Schengen is in trouble across Europe, of course,

:51:50.:51:52.

because we have seen unprecedented numbers crossing our borders. This

:51:53.:51:57.

year we will see big numbers coming from Afghanistan and that will be

:51:58.:52:00.

the next refugee crisis, so we have got to find ways of dealing with it,

:52:01.:52:05.

but they must be common ways. The idea that one country can solve this

:52:06.:52:11.

international crisis is observed for stop -- is absent. Britain outside

:52:12.:52:19.

the European Union can decide properly what our borders should be

:52:20.:52:25.

without this free movement. It is the free movement. People have the

:52:26.:52:31.

right... This is the issue, it goes to free movement of people. He says

:52:32.:52:35.

because we're not in Schengen we do not have this problem. What is

:52:36.:52:43.

happening at the bridge where Joe was reporting from, that is the

:52:44.:52:46.

situation, whether that is Heathrow Airport or Calais will stop we have

:52:47.:52:52.

the free movement of the workforce, and with the changes coming

:52:53.:52:54.

regarding the living wage, more people will come, and the average

:52:55.:53:01.

living wage will be ?9.70 and someone working a 40 hour week will

:53:02.:53:05.

be earning ?14,000 a year in the UK, and if you work on local figures in

:53:06.:53:10.

Romania, they will be on something like a quarter of that. It will

:53:11.:53:15.

remain attractive people to come here, so it is not just about

:53:16.:53:18.

controlling the border, it is about having the ability to decide who

:53:19.:53:22.

comes to live in the United Kingdom. The weakness of Schengen, it was

:53:23.:53:26.

always going to be as strong as the weakest external border. And since

:53:27.:53:30.

the borders of southern Italy and Greece have proved to be very weak

:53:31.:53:33.

indeed it was inevitable that Schengen could not survive. After

:53:34.:53:38.

the Paris attacks, reports in the Wall Street Journal that morning

:53:39.:53:42.

that the leader of the attack on Paris said he slept in Armonk EU

:53:43.:53:55.

refugees from Syria -- said he slipped in Armonk. -- amongst. Yes,

:53:56.:54:05.

there was not the check on the database, the terrorist database,

:54:06.:54:12.

and we are going to press for that to happen, but for everyone

:54:13.:54:15.

watching, we need robust checks at our borders, but to people that want

:54:16.:54:19.

to go on holiday to Spain and send their kids on a school exchange to

:54:20.:54:24.

Germany, and somebody who gets a job in Italy, they will not have to go

:54:25.:54:29.

down to an embassy in London, get a Visa and possibly be refused, your

:54:30.:54:34.

party leader says he would like to go back to the 1950s, which is what

:54:35.:54:40.

you used to have to do. We have international agreements, that is

:54:41.:54:43.

ridiculous. This is about a situation where we have... You want

:54:44.:54:50.

free movement? I want a British government which can decide policy

:54:51.:54:56.

without interference. I have got to stop you there. 20.

:54:57.:55:04.

Of all the nations in the European Union the Belgians

:55:05.:55:08.

are perhaps most comfortable with their EU membership.

:55:09.:55:10.

Belgium the home to many EU institutions of course

:55:11.:55:12.

But as Adam Fleming discovered the country itself is really

:55:13.:55:16.

The author Brigitte Raskin lives on the fault line that

:55:17.:55:25.

On this side we are in a Flemish town.

:55:26.:55:34.

This side, the street is called one thing in Flemish,

:55:35.:55:48.

on the other side, it is called something else in French.

:55:49.:55:53.

Here you have, we are in the Flemish community,

:55:54.:55:55.

and that is the French speaking community.

:55:56.:55:57.

This is the Flemish region, and that is Wallonia.

:55:58.:56:01.

The Flanders side of the street is also richer, better educated

:56:02.:56:04.

and has lower unemployment than the Wallonian side.

:56:05.:56:07.

Brigitte has written a book about the dispute which has complex

:56:08.:56:11.

historical origins, but very modern consequences.

:56:12.:56:15.

One day there was a man on a cycle who had an accident.

:56:16.:56:21.

His cycle was on the Flemish side and the man was on the Walloon side.

:56:22.:56:26.

In Brussels they are bilingual, and did I mention, in the east,

:56:27.:56:35.

there is a community which speaks German?

:56:36.:56:37.

It means an alphabet soup of multiple levels of government.

:56:38.:56:40.

Which I discovered at the Royal Palace.

:56:41.:56:45.

The king was hosting a New Year's reception for all of them.

:56:46.:56:50.

If you are into Belgian politics, which I have become in the last few

:56:51.:56:54.

On the reception line, the Prime Minister who runs

:56:55.:57:01.

the federal government which looks after the big stuff,

:57:02.:57:03.

along with the minister president of Flanders, his equivalent

:57:04.:57:07.

from Wallonia, and separate leaders representing the French,

:57:08.:57:09.

Dutch and German language communities,

:57:10.:57:11.

which all have their own parliaments, as well.

:57:12.:57:14.

The boss of the Brussels capital region was in there, as well.

:57:15.:57:17.

Although I'm not sure how many of the city's 19 mayors

:57:18.:57:20.

Even the local journalists need a list.

:57:21.:57:25.

Critics say that the spate of terrorist attacks allegedly

:57:26.:57:37.

planned in Belgium recently is a result of a weak

:57:38.:57:39.

Others, like Mark from the New Flemish Alliance,

:57:40.:57:44.

Do you think in 10 years Belgium will still exist as a country?

:57:45.:57:54.

I'm a strong believer in the fact that powers will shift.

:57:55.:58:00.

More and more powers will go to the regional level.

:58:01.:58:05.

Other powers, where there is an added value to work together,

:58:06.:58:08.

will be on a larger scale, but this larger scale

:58:09.:58:11.

will not be Belgium, because it is too small.

:58:12.:58:14.

At least you can guarantee some national unity this summer,

:58:15.:58:17.

soon it is Euro 2016 and Belgium's football team is the best

:58:18.:58:19.

Do you get a sense of evaporation when you are in Brussels? Yes,

:58:20.:58:38.

Brussels is the third part, it relies entirely on public funding,

:58:39.:58:43.

they have the institutions and Nato. Whether it is Belgium or island,

:58:44.:58:50.

Europe has been a unifying force which has been able to overcome

:58:51.:58:51.

division -- Ireland. OK, that is it.

:58:52.:58:58.

Andrew Neil is joined by the editor of The Independent, Amol Rajan, to discuss the latest political news, including an interview with the former prime minister of Belgium, Guy Verhofstadt, about David Cameron's EU negotiation.


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