07/03/2016 Daily Politics


07/03/2016

Ukip's Douglas Carswell and Labour's Mary Creagh join Jo Coburn. They look at topics including a possible Conservative backbench rebellion over relaxing Sunday trading laws.


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LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

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Was political pressure put on the leader of one of Britain's

:00:40.:00:43.

biggest business groups to resign after he spoke in favour

:00:44.:00:46.

You might not have heard of him before today,

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but the former head of the British Chambers

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of Commerce John Longworth is at the centre of a big political

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David Cameron is in Brussels meeting European leaders as they grapple

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Can Turkey solve the EU's biggest problem, and what do they want

:01:02.:01:07.

We'll be looking at Government plans to extend Sunday trading and hearing

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And should satirical TV shows be allowed to use clips like this

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All that in the next hour and with us for the whole

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of the programme today two MPs who are beyond satire.

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By which I mean of course we'd never think of poking fun at them.

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It's Labour's Mary Creagh and Ukip's Douglas Carswell; welcome

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Let's begin today by talking about the resignation of the head

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of the British Chambers of Commerce, he's called John Longworth.

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He told reporters at the BCC's annual conference last week

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that the UK could have a "brighter" future outside the European Union.

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He was expressing a personal view because the business organisation's

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official position is to remain neutral ahead

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The BCC said Mr Longworth had accepted his support for leaving

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the EU was "likely to create confusion" and he therefore had

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But leave campaigners have claimed he came under political

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Conservative MP David Davis said he is a Brexit martyr.

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This morning's Daily Mail front page refers to 'an honest man knifed

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Downing Street says no pressure was put on the BCC to

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Here's the Mayor of London and Leave campaigner Boris Johnson speaking

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It is very sad that somebody like John Longworth,

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who shares my view, who has great experience of British business

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and industry, should have paid a heavy price for sharing

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You said the agents of project fear had got him out by bullying,

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No, he has been asked to step down for expressing what I think

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is a passionate, optimistic view of this country's chances.

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We're joined now from Bristol by Phil Smith, managing director

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of Business West which is the chamber of commerce for the West

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Mr Smith, are you pleased to see the back of John Longworth? He had to

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go. When you pay someone to represent you and they don't do it,

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there's only one conclusion, I'm afraid. Do you think there was

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political pressure to remove him? Absolutely not. The members were

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unhappy unth up and down the country. The BCC board recognised

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that. There was no pressure for an internal decision. You don't think

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project fear did fall for him in that sense? Absolutely not. Would it

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be fair to describe the BCC as a pro-EU body? They've made it very

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clear our stance is to be neutral on the EU and leaving, so I think if

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John had come out on Thursday and said to vote to stay, I think we'd

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have had the same response. So no, I think no pressure from Number Ten

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and it was a neutral stance. So you said even if he expressed the

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opposite view, you would have had to go anyway so you don't think any

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senior figure in the BCC to your knowledge should express an opinion

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about the EU at all? As a collective, as a membership body, we

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have take an neutral stance. You pay somebody to do that. I represent my

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members here in the West Country, I represent their views. John wasn't

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representing his member's views, I'm afraid. What about renegotiation. Do

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you think then that the BCC should express a view about whether that

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was a good idea in the first place? I'm sure the BCC's always wanted,

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well when they have polled members in the past, the majority would

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prefer to stay and more would prefer to stay if we got a good deal out of

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Europe. For this purpose for now, we have take an neutral stance. John

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waivered from it on Thursday, it's brave of him, he sacrificed his

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career for his own personal views and good for him but not the BCC

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view. I'm afraid. Kim Conchie, CEO has said it's important for

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Cornwall, should he have stayed silent? We are separate bodies,

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federal organisations, if Kim wants to say that and they get lots of

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money in Cornwall from Europe so you can see why he said it, each member

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takes their view, but from our point of view, it was to stay neutral and

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say nothing, John waiver and I can see why he's paid the price. Thank

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you very much. Douglas Carswell, you tweeted Downing Street got their

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man. What evidence have you got that there was direct pressure? There

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does seem to have been some suggestion, not least in the

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newspapers, that there seems to have been some pressure. There's been

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some liaison between the BCC and Downing Street. But look, let's not

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lose sight of the real issue which is what John long worth, a man who

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spent years working with small and medium-sized businesses actually has

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said. He clearly feels very strongly that EU membership is bad for small

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and medium businesses. We know there are big corporate interest who is

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rather like Brussels, they can afford to hire lobbyists. But he

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spent his career working with small and medium businesses who believes

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we'd be better off out. Does it it main the Remain argument weak. He

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crossed the line didn't he though in terms of speaking out? The

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organisations decided they should remain neutral, rightly or wrongly,

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rather than talking about the substance of what he said. Do you

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believe he crossed the line and therefore he had to go? Some have

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expressed contrary views. At a regional level. This was the

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national... I'm sure they would distinguish, but look at the broad

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point of view of the Campaign. Rather than engaging in the

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substance of the argument, they are having to resort to the removal

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tactics. Let's say he'd come out in fave of staying in, would you expect

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him to resign or stay? Given what we have seen, if he'd have argued down

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a pro-Downing Street line, he wouldn't have been forced out. But

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you don't have the evidence for him being forced out. Number

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you don't have the evidence for him they didn't force him out. We have

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heard from Phil Smith who says there is no evidence? 24 hours ago I hear

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Downing Street was not ruling out the idea that there had been liaison

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between officials and the BCC. Mary, did he cross the line and have to

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go? He spent time working with ASDA and Tesco and this was his personal

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view. Reading the accounts of what happened last week, it was clear

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from people in the room that there was unhappiness from the members of

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the British Chamber of Commerce. This is a membership organisation

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and I know from my time working at Koranfield School of management with

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MBAs and entrepreneurs, the membership of the BCC are two to one

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in fave of staying as part of the European Union -- Cranfield School.

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He is a paid representative of that organisation, that organisation has

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a very particular stance which is, we are going to remain neutral.

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There's Cornwall and the north-east that want to stay and there's

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probably other parts of regions that want to leave, but in order to

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manage that, they have decided on this neutral stance and he's broken

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it. So you agree he had to go. Do you think Number Ten put pressure on

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him? I have no idea but it's clear this is a decision for the British

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Chamber of Commerce board not Number Ten and the board have sacked him?

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The British Chamber of Commerce set out a series of criteria that they

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wanted to see in a reformed Europe. David Cameron's deal's demonstrably

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failed to achieve that and it's right and proper therefore that the

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people in the Chamber of Commerce express the disappointment that his

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new deal is not reforming Europe at all. The membership of the members

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of the Chamber of Commerce are two to one in favour of staying in the

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European Union. They know it's better for their businesses,

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employees, staff and regulatory frameworks. They know that leaving

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would mean we'd have to unpick Torith our trade deals and lose a

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huge amount of foreign investment. I suppose there is a view about,

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whether other influential people feel less likely to talk and speak

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out on what is an extremely important issue. Should people be

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new untilled that sense? If somebody works for an organisation, they

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should not stray from that. That is clear from all organisations. A

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Number Ten spokesperson has been briefing journalists and hasn't

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denied there was contact. No pressure but there was contact. You

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would expect that? It's a euphemism and I'm sure there would say there

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was no pressure on the French President to bully us. Downing

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Street and the Remain campaign are weak. They are backing out of the

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idea of TV debate with the BBC. Downing Street feels it can't get

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involved in the substance so they are having to play the man. The idea

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of Francois Hollande or the Italian Finance Minister all warning about

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the domino effect, if the UK leaves the European Union, about the very

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dangerous position that we are in if we do leave, not just for our

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country but for the whole continent at a time of great security, unease,

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at a tame when Russia is on manoeuvres in Ukraine and Russia,

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these are issues people need to hear about. The idea that you can bully

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Francois Hollande into anything is for the birds.

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Thank you. We've learnt in the last few days

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that Labour has allowed a leading left winger to rejoin the party,

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to the consternation of some senior Who now proudly owns a shiny

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new Labour party membership card? Is it a) Former Bradford

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MP George Galloway. b) Mark Serwotka, General Secretary

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of the Public and Commercial c) Former militant councillor Derek

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Hatton. or d) The filmmaker and founder

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of Left Unity, Ken Loach. David Cameron is in Brussels today

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for a meeting aimed at tackling The UK is offering to send

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a Royal Navy ship and helicopter to help tackle people smugglers,

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but the big issue is whether the EU can cut a deal with Turkey that

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will help curb a second wave of migrants from the

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war-torn Middle East. Some 1.2 million people claimed

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asylum in Europe last year. But more and more people

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are attempting to make the journey Another 135,000 have arrived

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on Europe's shores so far this year, more than six times the number

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who arrived in the same EU leaders are keen to reach a deal

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with Turkey, because that's the departure point for many

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migrants crossing into Europe. The EU will press Turkey to take

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back migrants who do not qualify In return, the EU could give Turkey

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3 billion euros and resettle some The EU is also likely

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to declare the route north Some 13,000 people are currently

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stranded at Greece's border with Macedonia, with

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the authorities preventing them Meanwhile, the UK is sending a navy

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ship to help gather intelligence on people smugglers

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operating in the Aegean. It will join other NATO countries

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already policing this part However, this NATO mission is also

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effectively a coastguard force, as ships will likely end up rescuing

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migrants at risk of drowning. Well, David Cameron has arrived

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at the summit in Brussels, let's hear what he had to say

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to reporters waiting outside. It's important that we help the

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continent of Europe to secure its external border. That's in our

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interests and that's why we are sending British ships to do just

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that. This does underline the special status that we have in this

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organisation because, of course, we are not in the Schengen no-border

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zone, we keep our own strong borders, so migrants that come to

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Europe aren't able to come to the UK and that's important that everyone

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understands that. Our correspondent Damian

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Grammaticus is in Brussels. Is this monitoring exercise that the

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UK is now taking part in meaningful? I think it's one of the important

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things that the EU is putting in place, to try and deal with this

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crisis. What their aim is, is to try to reduce the in-flow of people from

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Turkey into Greece. That's the first thing they want to achieve. This is

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one of the ways that they are trying to do that, using the NATO ships,

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now the British contribution we know is going to be taking part as well

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which will also involve, not just this one ship but also a couple of

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coastguard cutters as well. The idea there will be, as you were hearing,

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to pass information on to the Turks to try to get the Turkish coastguard

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and police to try to intercept people and boats before they make it

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into Greek waters. Once they do make it into Greek waters, most people

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are in Europe and have to be dealt with and processed by the European

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side. So the hope is that this can achieve something. But crucially, it

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will all depend, to a large extent on cooperation from Turkey. That's

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why what we are seeing here now is the first meeting today which is the

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Europeans and Turkey sitting around trying to cajole Turkey to do more.

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Right, but is it going to really actively do anything to stop the

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people-smuggling trade? I think that's a very difficult question to

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answer at this stage. It's an open question. The hope is, I think

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amongst European countries, that by having these forces there, and it

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won't just be the British, there are a number of other countries

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providing ships too, they can provide information, they can

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monitor the coastlines, they can try and spot where smugglers are

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preparing boats, where people are gathering to set out on their

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journey across the sea to Greece and then by passing that information to

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Turkey urge the Turks to do something. I think the second thing

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it would do as well is give European countries some leverage with Turkey

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because if they are able to say, look, we identified all of these

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occasions when people were getting on boats, you didn't do anything

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about it, it gives them more opportunity to put pressure on

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Turkey. That's one thing. The other things they are going to be talking

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about is more money for Turkey, more efforts or ideas about trying to

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offer a plan to take some refugees and resettle them in Europe anyway,

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if Turkey takes part in this plan, and then sending people back, some

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who do make it across, this is also being discussed but who may not

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qualify for protection in Europe. I'm joined by Fadi Hakura

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an associate fellowat Chatham House, an independent think tank focusing

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on international affairs. Welcome. Another crisis summit, any

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chance of a breakthrough this time? The likelihood is Turkey will accept

:16:32.:16:36.

to take non-Syrian refugees back into Turkey. What would they like in

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return? More money, a strong men from the EU to grant visa free

:16:43.:16:47.

access to Turks travelling to mainland Europe, as well as a clear

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strategy to resettle some of the refugees in Europe. Do you think

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that is a price worth paying, having visa free travel in order for them

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to take back either failed asylum seekers or non-Syrian migrants? The

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Government position is a welcome change from the position 18 months

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ago when ministers said they did not want any rescue missions because

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they were acting as a so-called pull factor. I welcome that the Prime

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Minister is working alongside our EU partners and in Nato. These are free

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travel does not apply within the UK, because we are not part of the

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Schengen no border zone. I think it is the right thing to do. This has

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been a five-year conflict, a quarter of a million people have died, it

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has been a war without law, without end, and our response as a rich

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group of countries has been incredibly poor, we have taken just

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1000 refugees. Should Britain have been part of some sort of quota

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system? Given that we have a quarter of a million people now seeking

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asylum, over a million people, we should have played our part as part

:18:09.:18:13.

of the EU, but I would also like to see us move much faster to offer

:18:14.:18:16.

safe and legal routes to people in those camps so that they are not

:18:17.:18:21.

forced to make this difficult journey. Do you think it is a price

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worth paying? Turkey is crucial in terms of trying to make some headway

:18:29.:18:33.

with this crisis, but we are asking them to keep its border open with

:18:34.:18:37.

Syria, close the border with Greece, take-back failed asylum seekers,

:18:38.:18:42.

they have a right to demand a lot in return. Well done, Prime Minister,

:18:43.:18:47.

for sending the Navy, but it is Nato on whom we can depend who have taken

:18:48.:18:52.

the initiative. The EU has made the problem far worse, and if we have

:18:53.:19:07.

what is already on the table, a proposal for a European institution

:19:08.:19:13.

to allocate quotas on a pan-European level, we will lose the ability as a

:19:14.:19:16.

country to decide how many refugees come here. If we vote to remain in

:19:17.:19:23.

the EU, a Brussels institution will allocate how many refugees come

:19:24.:19:27.

here, that is on the table already. That is what people will get. The

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Prime Minister has rejected that approach, he is wrong. As the fifth

:19:33.:19:37.

richest country in the world, with this huge crisis on our borders, we

:19:38.:19:43.

should be voluntarily signing up to that, and we can do that as part of

:19:44.:19:46.

our opt out for justice and home affairs. Should the EU by Turkey's

:19:47.:19:54.

cooperation in the way it appears? Any deal will be difficult to

:19:55.:19:57.

implement. There will not be a durable solution unless there is a

:19:58.:20:03.

permanent settlement to the Syrian crisis. If not, the flow of refugees

:20:04.:20:10.

will continue. No amount of security, waltz, quotas or other

:20:11.:20:15.

mechanisms will prevent people wanting to come to mainland Europe.

:20:16.:20:21.

For Turkey, is this going to be a successful root for them to further

:20:22.:20:25.

their EU accession talks and negotiations? The likelihood of them

:20:26.:20:30.

joining the EU is extremely remote, not in my lifetime. The previous

:20:31.:20:37.

European minister in Turkey said that in an interview to the Daily

:20:38.:20:41.

Telegraph, Turkey will likely join Europe any time soon. -- unlikely.

:20:42.:20:47.

What sort of numbers are we talking about if there is a quid pro quo

:20:48.:20:52.

where these are free travel comes into operation? There is a fear in

:20:53.:20:57.

France and Germany and the Netherlands that millions of Turks

:20:58.:21:01.

will flow over the border into mainland Europe, so we will have

:21:02.:21:06.

another problem, given that that is more Turkish migrants coming into

:21:07.:21:11.

Europe already. But that happen? It is a possibility. Turkey is unlikely

:21:12.:21:19.

to join the EU, but unless we get a grip, large numbers of people coming

:21:20.:21:23.

through Turkey will join. We need to have a Government and Nato that is

:21:24.:21:28.

prepared to take robust action. The EU has failed, it has made the

:21:29.:21:33.

problem was. This deal is to try to control the numbers who might use

:21:34.:21:38.

Turkey as a route through. The EU has had months, it has made the

:21:39.:21:42.

problem worse. 1.2 million came across the Mediterranean last year,

:21:43.:21:47.

it is Nato that is dealing with the problem, the EU has only made it

:21:48.:21:53.

worse. The EU has failed, you say, it may be the fault of individual

:21:54.:21:58.

countries, but when you look at it, the EU has failed to deal with this

:21:59.:22:03.

problem, and if they cannot deal with a migrant crisis like this on

:22:04.:22:09.

an EU basis, what is the point? It is a refugee crisis, the global

:22:10.:22:13.

community has failed, we have allowed Vladimir Putin to be on

:22:14.:22:16.

manoeuvres, we know he has air strikes against hospitals, and

:22:17.:22:22.

schools, in the northern part of Syria, he is bombing the legitimate

:22:23.:22:27.

opposition to the president, and they are using the refugee crisis as

:22:28.:22:30.

a means of further destabilising Europe. It is why our referendum

:22:31.:22:39.

debate is coming at such a difficult political time, because the risk of

:22:40.:22:44.

the EU falling apart if Britain leads is not one that people in this

:22:45.:22:48.

country fully understand. Those pressures need to be looked at. Our

:22:49.:22:56.

party was wrong not to prevent President Assad once he had

:22:57.:23:00.

committed those chemical weapons attacks, and from that we have had a

:23:01.:23:06.

sea of human misery. This seems to be the crux moment with Turkey. But

:23:07.:23:11.

do you think it is right for the EU to do business with a country whose

:23:12.:23:15.

Government is growing, according to the media reports, more

:23:16.:23:19.

authoritarian by the day? Absolutely. Should the EU not be

:23:20.:23:25.

dealing with them's we have to, and we have to ask, why is the

:23:26.:23:30.

Government becoming more authoritarian? They are becoming

:23:31.:23:33.

destabilised with the refugee crisis on their borders. As is Lebanon and

:23:34.:23:39.

Jordan. The fault is the failure to stem the tide of misery that is

:23:40.:23:44.

Syria. I have comment does respect for Turkey, this is a failure of the

:23:45.:23:49.

European project. Should we be talking to Turkey when they are an

:23:50.:23:55.

authoritarian country? Of course, but the EU has failed to control its

:23:56.:23:59.

currency, debt crisis and borders, it is a failed project. Is Turkey

:24:00.:24:06.

being destabilised? Yes, they contributed to the refugee crisis by

:24:07.:24:11.

allowing a lot of foreign fighters or at least a flow of foreign

:24:12.:24:16.

fighters into Syria. There is already 2.5 million plus refugees in

:24:17.:24:22.

Turkey, Turkey is in permanent warfare with the Kurdish

:24:23.:24:25.

nationalists in the south-east, as well as in northern Syria will stop

:24:26.:24:30.

they have to do a 180 degrees change in its policy to bring more

:24:31.:24:31.

stability into Syria. At Europe's biggest shopping centre,

:24:32.:24:34.

a special church service, a reminder that the shops may be

:24:35.:24:39.

open legally for the first time on a Sunday, but it

:24:40.:24:42.

is still the sabbath. This Centre in Gateshead, owned by

:24:43.:25:01.

the Church Commissioners. It has now bowed to the inevitable. An

:25:02.:25:05.

estimated 90,000 took advantage of the opening.

:25:06.:25:07.

Brilliant, I work full-time, so it is ideal.

:25:08.:25:09.

Sunday is fine for me, it is sometimes the only day

:25:10.:25:11.

That was the last big deregulation of Sunday trading back in 1994.

:25:12.:25:18.

And now the Government looks set to revive plans to allow local

:25:19.:25:21.

authorities to extend Sunday opening hours for supermarkets

:25:22.:25:25.

At present they're restricted to just six hours, a restriction

:25:26.:25:30.

that doesn't apply to smaller convenience stores.

:25:31.:25:34.

Well, it's expected to come to a Commons vote this Wednesday,

:25:35.:25:36.

but not all Conservative MPs are happy and it looks

:25:37.:25:40.

like the position of the Scottish National Party

:25:41.:25:42.

Well, we're joined now by David Burrowes, he's

:25:43.:25:45.

a Conservative opponent of the plan, and by the SNP's Stewart Hosie.

:25:46.:25:54.

Do you have enough Conservative MPs on your side to defeat the

:25:55.:26:00.

Government? We may have. I am concerned about our side.

:26:01.:26:08.

It was not in the manifesto, the Prime Minister in April said if you

:26:09.:26:18.

want to shop, you can, but also, if you want to retain that special

:26:19.:26:21.

characteristic, which we just about have, you can keep that. How many

:26:22.:26:26.

MPs do you have on your side? 24 signed up, a number of others, I

:26:27.:26:32.

will not reveal how many, are also lined up, as well as ministers and

:26:33.:26:39.

the like up and down the party. There are other things we should be

:26:40.:26:43.

doing to support enterprise, this has come up from a bunch of loud

:26:44.:26:47.

voices in the West End, Harrods and Knightsbridge, they wanted tourists

:26:48.:26:51.

to shop until they drop, but let's not have a domino effect that will

:26:52.:26:56.

impact on shop workers. The SNP need to ask themselves a question,

:26:57.:27:03.

whether they want to put at risk the pay packets of Scottish workers,

:27:04.:27:08.

there will be a delusion of workers' right and their pay. You have

:27:09.:27:12.

changed your position, one of your colleagues said he would support

:27:13.:27:17.

David Burrows. We will take a decision on Tuesday evening, in good

:27:18.:27:22.

time for the amendment debate on Wednesday. We were very clear all

:27:23.:27:28.

the way through, we have had Sunday trading in Scotland for 20 years, it

:27:29.:27:31.

has been beneficial by and large, but the large businesses pay a

:27:32.:27:36.

premium for Sunday working. Our specific concern, very specific, is

:27:37.:27:43.

if this is in essence becomes a UK system, does it have the potential,

:27:44.:27:48.

as many believe it would, to erode premium paid on a Sunday for workers

:27:49.:27:52.

in Scotland? Do you have a concession from the Government? No,

:27:53.:27:58.

the premium pay is not in legislation, it is done on the basis

:27:59.:28:03.

of the goodwill of businesses. Were it in statute, it would be an easier

:28:04.:28:07.

debate, but it isn't. Therein lies the difficulty. What is stopping you

:28:08.:28:14.

making up your mind? We are still getting representations from both

:28:15.:28:25.

sides. And the unions. Yes, some say it could have a detrimental effect

:28:26.:28:30.

on pay packets in Scotland. That has to be our primary concern. You need

:28:31.:28:35.

the SNP, you would defeat the Government. What are you talking

:28:36.:28:40.

about? We would defeat the Government with the SNP. It is

:28:41.:28:45.

looking at the evidence. If you look at the Edinburgh economic stake,

:28:46.:28:48.

they say it will hit the pay packet, or the evidence on the high Street.

:28:49.:28:56.

Mike small businesses, they have not said, we want you to make sure that

:28:57.:29:02.

the big stores are open for more than six hours. It is not something

:29:03.:29:06.

that is needed. If their strong feeling? I am a huge fan of David's,

:29:07.:29:15.

but I go to church on Sundays and I love shopping on Sundays, we should

:29:16.:29:20.

be able to do both. You can. But you have restrictions. Why not and are

:29:21.:29:25.

people to make these decisions for themselves? You can purchase what

:29:26.:29:29.

you want when you want online. Things will be delivered when you

:29:30.:29:34.

want. Why force shops? Because of the issue of workers and whether it

:29:35.:29:40.

is necessary. Let people decide. Workers cannot decide for

:29:41.:29:44.

themselves, they are often pressurised into working on a

:29:45.:29:47.

Sunday. We used to get double-time for a Sunday at BHS. It is great

:29:48.:29:53.

that a third of workers in Scotland get that, but that does not happen

:29:54.:29:57.

elsewhere. I have sat on the committee, I have signed your

:29:58.:30:00.

amendment, David. The current plans strike a balance, we should be

:30:01.:30:06.

keeping the rules as they are. It will mean that people can stay at

:30:07.:30:09.

home and have time with their families. Men who work on a Sunday

:30:10.:30:14.

spend less time reading with their families, doing leisure activities,

:30:15.:30:19.

and this is worrying in terms of how families and the pressure that

:30:20.:30:20.

families are under. In terms of ministers, are you

:30:21.:30:30.

expecting resignations over this? Over the weekend, there's been at

:30:31.:30:33.

least one that's saying they are wrestling with their conscience

:30:34.:30:36.

because they didn't see this coming. You heard in your clip, the previous

:30:37.:30:41.

debate, two years to debate this previously, we'll probably have two

:30:42.:30:46.

hours if we are lucky. This is it, it's not just the voice of big

:30:47.:30:51.

business. I have to say... I'm doubtful. Let me come back to

:30:52.:30:59.

Stewart Hosie, could you do a deal with David Burrowes on this? It's

:31:00.:31:04.

not about doing a deal, it's about looking at the evidence from both

:31:05.:31:08.

sides, weighing up the protections and the statute and saying, if this

:31:09.:31:13.

goes ahead on the balance of probability, will Scottish workers

:31:14.:31:17.

have pay eroded orange? Right now we have to be on the side of workers so

:31:18.:31:24.

not. So you would be doing a deal then. That won't be a good look for

:31:25.:31:29.

your supporter? It's not a good look to help the Government get through a

:31:30.:31:33.

deeply unpopular measure north of the border. You said that without

:31:34.:31:40.

moving your lips, Stewart Hosie! If a UK-wide system led to the erosion

:31:41.:31:45.

of terms and conditions and pay packets in Scotland, we couldn't

:31:46.:31:49.

support that. Because the pay... You don't know that do you though as

:31:50.:31:54.

such? No, but because the pay protection isn't in statute, it's

:31:55.:31:56.

incredibly difficult to argue the other side of the case. Yes we can

:31:57.:32:00.

get guarantees from some businesses but others have said to me, because

:32:01.:32:04.

this will be deployed perhaps on an English local authority basis,

:32:05.:32:07.

almost undeliverable full stop. Right. That makes it chaotic. Isn't

:32:08.:32:13.

that the case that it would be local authorities in the end who'd make

:32:14.:32:18.

the decision? Yes, it's a one-way valve. You can only further

:32:19.:32:22.

deregulate, you can't restrict. What is wrong with that then? Why should

:32:23.:32:27.

politicians in Westminster dictate? This is based on the Government

:32:28.:32:31.

making the case without publishing all the analysis and evidence. They

:32:32.:32:36.

are making the case that in the interests of deregulation, it makes

:32:37.:32:40.

economic sense. On a local level, you will see a competitive

:32:41.:32:43.

environment. It will be a race to the bottom. Each local council will

:32:44.:32:51.

have a big voice loud and clear. They'll want to deregulate further.

:32:52.:32:55.

Is that a glass half empty analysis? We are talking act using the law of

:32:56.:33:00.

the land to prevent people from spending their Sundays the way they

:33:01.:33:03.

want. Come on, we live in a free country, let people do what they

:33:04.:33:07.

want. You have to look at the people, a lot of them will be

:33:08.:33:10.

shopping if they want to, there are also workers. Most are having to

:33:11.:33:13.

work on Sundays already. Most do not want to work the extra hours and do

:33:14.:33:19.

not want to feel implied or explicit pressure. They're there for the

:33:20.:33:24.

families who want the choice as we have. We have a decent compromise,

:33:25.:33:30.

why unpick it now? It's unnecessary. Most Conservatives think... Is

:33:31.:33:35.

anyone listening to you? The Government are looking at

:33:36.:33:41.

compromises. One option is to zone into a tourist area, but many are

:33:42.:33:46.

concerned by the principle of it. You are saying that might be

:33:47.:33:52.

possible? It would be an idea if the big tourist magnets like West End of

:33:53.:33:57.

London. That is an interesting experiment if it worked. It might be

:33:58.:34:02.

something to look at. But I've sat on the Bill committee for this. The

:34:03.:34:08.

way the legislation is drafted, it's not West End legislation, it's

:34:09.:34:12.

national. Brandon Lewis's compromise about the red line around the high

:34:13.:34:15.

street whatever that is, not out of town, in Wakefield, I have 5,000

:34:16.:34:20.

people who work in retail, what does it mean if you are outside you don't

:34:21.:34:24.

get it and if you do you can. It's confusion and it's confusing also

:34:25.:34:28.

for the large stores. Sainsbury's, Tescos, Waitrose have all come out

:34:29.:34:33.

saying they don't want this, because they don't want in Wakefield one

:34:34.:34:38.

system and in Leeds another different system. Are you confident?

:34:39.:34:41.

No. We'll wait and see what happens today. I'm confident that an

:34:42.:34:45.

increasing number of my colleagues recognise this is unnecessary, not

:34:46.:34:48.

needed, keep things as they are. We have a good British compromise and

:34:49.:34:52.

let's carry on and get on with important issues of helping small

:34:53.:34:56.

businesses and enterprise. Thank you both very much.

:34:57.:34:58.

Now Harold Wilson won four general elections,

:34:59.:35:01.

held the UK's last referendum on EU membership, abolished capital

:35:02.:35:04.

punishment and promised to harness the famous white heat of technology.

:35:05.:35:06.

This week marks the 100th anniversary of his birth,

:35:07.:35:09.

and Mps are calling for him to be recognised as one of the 20th

:35:10.:35:12.

As you know, Her Majesty The Queen has agreed to my request that

:35:13.:35:22.

Parliament should be dissolved on Friday and the general election

:35:23.:35:25.

will be held on Thursday 10th October.

:35:26.:35:29.

This, believe it or not, is the first piece of political

:35:30.:35:32.

television I can ever remember seeing.

:35:33.:35:36.

I had no idea what was being said, I just remember the man

:35:37.:35:39.

The irony is that for a man whose memories eluded him too early

:35:40.:35:49.

in his life, his dementia may be the reason our memories and memorial

:35:50.:35:52.

of him are perhaps less than some think he deserves.

:35:53.:35:55.

Brilliant man, Prime Minister, but he had this debilitating

:35:56.:35:59.

By the time he came to talk for me in the 1979 election,

:36:00.:36:06.

he was still functioning, but his memory was slipping away,

:36:07.:36:11.

and he had already suffered from letting people know that

:36:12.:36:13.

Even when he was in the House of Lords, he was not in a condition

:36:14.:36:20.

Denis Healey lived right into his 90s, very articulate,

:36:21.:36:29.

speaking out about his career, his life, his contribution,

:36:30.:36:33.

The members' lobby of Parliament, the atrium for MPs before they enter

:36:34.:36:42.

the Commons chamber, has busts and statues of some former

:36:43.:36:46.

The iconic ones are Churchill, Lloyd George, Attlee and Thatcher,

:36:47.:36:50.

Some think Wilson ought to be another.

:36:51.:36:56.

Especially since this Friday is the centenary of his birth.

:36:57.:37:01.

Many of us have forgotten much of what Wilson did to change the way

:37:02.:37:08.

Someone said the other day, Harold Wilson as Prime Minister

:37:09.:37:13.

Both in terms of censorship, the rights of women being promoted,

:37:14.:37:20.

homosexual law reform, the end of capital punishment.

:37:21.:37:28.

That era, the 60s, that people think about the Beatles and a change

:37:29.:37:34.

in life, Harold was at the helm, he wanted Britain to

:37:35.:37:38.

He also knew that we had to do it with high skills,

:37:39.:37:43.

innovation, facing the future as a modern nation.

:37:44.:37:47.

So far, the Speaker's art fund has rejected plans for a full statue,

:37:48.:37:52.

they say he has the bust and there is a Wilson Room.

:37:53.:37:55.

But he says if the real obstacle is cash, not a problem.

:37:56.:38:01.

If the Speaker says to me, or the art fund says,

:38:02.:38:06.

And the Labour MP and historian Tristram Hunt is giving a speech

:38:07.:38:20.

about Harold Wilson this evening, and he joins us now.

:38:21.:38:25.

Lloyd George, Churchill, Atlee and Thatcher, does Wilson deserve to be

:38:26.:38:32.

ranked amongst them? Harold Wilson most certainly does. He was a great

:38:33.:38:35.

Labour Prime Minister and did the two things really that successful

:38:36.:38:38.

insurgents need to do. He put the Labour Party on the side of a

:38:39.:38:43.

patriatic British future, that great moment in 1964, The Beatles first

:38:44.:38:48.

low pressure, lady chatterly's trial, Wilson caught this

:38:49.:38:51.

progressive moment. What he also did was to reinvent socialism. Every

:38:52.:38:55.

great Labour Leader updates socialism for the modern era so this

:38:56.:39:00.

notion of a white heat of the scientific revolution. It's very

:39:01.:39:05.

modern Jo because it speaks about automation and technological change

:39:06.:39:07.

and change in society and how the Labour Party needs to put a kind of

:39:08.:39:12.

active, what we'd call today an entrepreneurial state behind this

:39:13.:39:15.

technology to deliver for citizens. He was seen as the great fixer and,

:39:16.:39:20.

for many people, he was the Prime Minister and leader of the Labour

:39:21.:39:22.

Party that sort of held the party together that that really was his

:39:23.:39:26.

driving force. Do you think that is why perhaps some of the achievements

:39:27.:39:29.

that you have outlined have been overshadowed? He is known as this

:39:30.:39:38.

fixer. Barbara Castle used to talk about his eel-like qualities and

:39:39.:39:41.

ability to keep the show on the road. But look at what came out of

:39:42.:39:46.

that. Incredible legislation in terms of female rites, incredible

:39:47.:39:49.

change to liberal reform, abolition of death penalty, change to divorce

:39:50.:39:53.

law and abortion law. Also I think from a Labour perspective what was

:39:54.:39:57.

impressive was his attack on inequality. This was a golden age of

:39:58.:40:03.

capitalism with rising living standards which Wilson oversaw and

:40:04.:40:06.

crucially, he put education as a real priority of every Labour

:40:07.:40:09.

Government, the Open University, he was hugely proud of his University

:40:10.:40:14.

of The year. Today, as well as busts, what we should also think

:40:15.:40:17.

about, we are losing some of the edge on the Internet and education

:40:18.:40:23.

and technology and social progress. I think, as well as the bustses, we

:40:24.:40:28.

should think about how we reflect on Wilson's achievements and have a

:40:29.:40:33.

push on the Internet on education. 1-1 of the achievements would be the

:40:34.:40:36.

referendum in 1975. One of my colleagues... This is archive, Jo.

:40:37.:40:41.

Yes. My colleague brought this in, the two leaflets for No and Yes at

:40:42.:40:48.

this time. In pristine condition. Interesting to go for brown to vote

:40:49.:40:53.

No. Hold them up to the camera, we don't want to be accused of being

:40:54.:40:59.

unimpartial. At the time it was Labour that was so divided and

:41:00.:41:03.

Harold Wilson's gamble paid off, if you like. Do you think there are

:41:04.:41:08.

huge similarities between Wilson's dilemma then and Cameron's now?

:41:09.:41:12.

There are extraordinary parallels. Wilson was trying to keep his party

:41:13.:41:17.

together, trying to keep Labour in power and he was trying to keep

:41:18.:41:21.

Britain in the European Economic Community and you could flip all

:41:22.:41:25.

that for David Cameron today. What's interesting though is, where you see

:41:26.:41:28.

a slight difference is, David Cameron is in a sense even more

:41:29.:41:33.

enthusiastic for Europe than Harold Wilson was. Wilson was a slightly

:41:34.:41:38.

reluctant campaigner but the difference crucially is that Wilson

:41:39.:41:41.

made the progressive case for Europe and it was a case about high skills

:41:42.:41:46.

and high wage and growth and it was I think a much more positive case

:41:47.:41:49.

rather than some of the stuff we are seeing from the Prime Minister at

:41:50.:41:53.

the moment. Crucially, he pulled it off, he won, succeeded. That was

:41:54.:41:58.

obviously the result of that, it paid off for him. David Cameron will

:41:59.:42:01.

obviously be hoping the same will happen this time around. Well, if

:42:02.:42:08.

Corbyn is running your movement, you are going to look back fondly at the

:42:09.:42:12.

previous Prime Minister apart from Tony Blair. I can see the attraction

:42:13.:42:19.

of looking back. When Wilson talk about the scientific revolution,

:42:20.:42:22.

it's a technocratic mindset. The revolution is built on that top-down

:42:23.:42:29.

set. In the digital age, trying to arrange the age of millions is

:42:30.:42:33.

doomed to failure. Fundamentally the world's changed from the old days

:42:34.:42:35.

and I think the Government wanting people to vote to remain will lose

:42:36.:42:41.

on this occasion. Rightly so. This is the interesting difference today.

:42:42.:42:44.

Douglas is right in his response to the white heat was a status response

:42:45.:42:48.

that you had to manage this and ended up with ayous. The response to

:42:49.:42:54.

the Labour Party today is to be how do you emboyer citizens to deal with

:42:55.:43:00.

technochange, so how do you create Trade Unions for the ubeer radio and

:43:01.:43:06.

employment and maternity rights in self-employment so. Embrace the

:43:07.:43:10.

modern white heat of uber, the Internet and super computers but

:43:11.:43:14.

also have a strong Social Democratic response.

:43:15.:43:28.

You two can join forces. Mary? We have the great Anglo-French

:43:29.:43:31.

collaboration around Concorde and breaking the sound barrier. How did

:43:32.:43:36.

that work? Well. Where is it now? It's been mothballed. Failure. A a

:43:37.:43:41.

good metaphor for the European Union. The Airbus collaboration

:43:42.:43:46.

creates thousands of jobs across the country and is one of the two major

:43:47.:43:53.

manufacturers of aeroplanes and so there is this state thing that you

:43:54.:43:57.

are very negative about. I think ah old would be looking at the European

:43:58.:44:01.

Union now and saying it's evolved over time and how do we deal with

:44:02.:44:07.

the networks. ATh Please can I come in. Concorde was a great triumph. It

:44:08.:44:11.

was good at transporting rock stars across the Atlantic, like the

:44:12.:44:17.

European Union, it subsidises rich bankers, they get bail outs,. .

:44:18.:44:22.

European Union, it subsidises rich European Union also delivered

:44:23.:44:28.

low-cost air travel across Europe. The Ryanair, easyJet revolution is

:44:29.:44:32.

built upon... Deregulation is possible without being in the

:44:33.:44:35.

European Union. They have cheap air travel in other places. Let me

:44:36.:44:39.

return to the question. What would Harold Wilson make of Jeremy

:44:40.:44:42.

Corbyn's Labour Party today? I think he'd look at it as a party that is

:44:43.:44:46.

not making the progress that we should be making. Walter Harrison

:44:47.:44:52.

was one of the whips in the Wilson government that kept that show on

:44:53.:45:02.

the road. Well, I think what this post-war generation of politicians

:45:03.:45:09.

had was an absolutely laser-like desire to keep power, win power and

:45:10.:45:12.

change people's minds. Do you think that's gone? We are in danger

:45:13.:45:15.

change people's minds. Do you think losing it and looking in on

:45:16.:45:17.

ourselves and we need to keep looking out. Wilson believed the

:45:18.:45:21.

Labour Party was the natural party of Government. He didn't believe the

:45:22.:45:25.

Labour Party was a protest movement protesting outside other Party

:45:26.:45:29.

Conferences. He thought it should be round the table delivering social

:45:30.:45:33.

justice for the people that came into being to represent. He'd be

:45:34.:45:39.

horrified by the tendency towards endless protests, rather than

:45:40.:45:42.

thinking about how we get into power and do what Labour Governments are

:45:43.:45:45.

about, tackling inequality, promoting education, dealing with

:45:46.:45:48.

technology, putting us at the heart of Europe.

:45:49.:45:50.

Well, it looks like we can expect another week dominated by the EU

:45:51.:45:53.

referendum, but what else will be on the agenda?

:45:54.:45:58.

Tonight sees the usual weekly meeting of the Parliamentary Labour

:45:59.:46:00.

Last week Mr Corbyn addressed his MPs for the first time this year

:46:01.:46:05.

Tuesday could mark a significant point in the campaign ahead

:46:06.:46:12.

of the referendum on EU membership, as the governor of the Bank

:46:13.:46:15.

of England Mark Carney goes in front of the Treasury Select Committee

:46:16.:46:18.

to outline the possible implications for a vote to leave.

:46:19.:46:22.

Also on Tuesday, leave campaigner and minister Priti Patel is expected

:46:23.:46:26.

to speak at an event promoting Women For Britain,

:46:27.:46:29.

a group which will try to persuade women of the case

:46:30.:46:32.

Will Prime Minister's Questions on Wednesday be overshadowed

:46:33.:46:37.

by the start of the third strike by junior doctors in England?

:46:38.:46:41.

The 48-hour action is part of their campaign against

:46:42.:46:44.

the Government's decision to impose a new contract.

:46:45.:46:47.

Labour MP Dan Jarvis gives a speech on Thursday

:46:48.:46:50.

The former soldier is often spoken of as a future party leader.

:46:51.:46:59.

And Friday sees the opening rally of the Liberal Democrats' spring

:47:00.:47:04.

Joining me now from outside Parliament is the Spectator's Isabel

:47:05.:47:08.

Hardman and Joel Taylor from the Metro.

:47:09.:47:15.

The junior doctors strike, another one expected because they have not

:47:16.:47:23.

reached an agreement or a compromise, the Health Secretary

:47:24.:47:26.

said the Government will impose the new contract later this year. Is

:47:27.:47:29.

there any hope of some sort of breakthrough? No, and Jeremy Hunt is

:47:30.:47:36.

determined not to let the BMA win. Colleagues of his say that he talks

:47:37.:47:40.

about the need to stand up to the doctors so it does not encourage

:47:41.:47:45.

other groups to behave badly. What he seems to be tripping is that

:47:46.:47:49.

doctors will stop supporting the BMA now that it is continuing to take

:47:50.:47:52.

industrial action post imposition of the contract. What are we to think

:47:53.:47:58.

in terms of public support? Is it still fairly consistently in favour

:47:59.:48:02.

of junior doctors or waning? The doctors being part of the NHS gets a

:48:03.:48:07.

lot of natural support from the public, but it will be a harder

:48:08.:48:12.

test, with the 48-hour strike, thousands will see operations

:48:13.:48:14.

cancelled, it cause increasing disruption. It will be put to the

:48:15.:48:20.

test. Let's talk about the budget. We expect lots of leaks, but fuel

:48:21.:48:26.

duty rising, we have had cheaper petrol prices compare to the past,

:48:27.:48:33.

that lightly? The likeliness of anything depends on how angry Tory

:48:34.:48:38.

MPs get over the next week and a bit. George Osborne knows the party

:48:39.:48:42.

is in a fractious mood, and for him to introduce any measure that will

:48:43.:48:46.

cause a row on top of the row about the referendum is unlikely, which is

:48:47.:48:51.

why he has retreated from reforms on pension tax relief. If he wants to

:48:52.:48:55.

press ahead with tax cuts for the middle classes, for most people, you

:48:56.:49:01.

take it all the way down the tax rates, does he not have to do

:49:02.:49:05.

something if he wants to keep a lid on Government borrowing? He will

:49:06.:49:10.

have to find something. He is trying to maintain the balance with his

:49:11.:49:13.

backbenchers. They don't want any further disruption and distractions

:49:14.:49:19.

from the issues at hand. In terms of pension tax relief, that also is an

:49:20.:49:25.

issue that Conservative MPs have been angry about. Is that looking

:49:26.:49:30.

less likely? Much less likely. It's a shame, because it is the stage at

:49:31.:49:35.

which you can attempt these radical reforms, but because of the mood in

:49:36.:49:38.

the party it is unlikely he will want to do something that will end

:49:39.:49:41.

up clobbering his natural supporters in the middle classes. Boris Johnson

:49:42.:49:46.

gave his first broadcast interview since declaring for Brexit

:49:47.:49:57.

yesterday, what was your assessment? He was afflicted with the problem

:49:58.:50:03.

that a lot of Brexiters have, they failed to put an image forward about

:50:04.:50:06.

what would happen afterwards. But there were excerpts talking about

:50:07.:50:13.

Upland and great country that would appear warming to his supporters in

:50:14.:50:20.

clips. It got a pasting in the papers, I don't know whether it was

:50:21.:50:24.

because expectations had been raised or whether the style of the

:50:25.:50:28.

interview was not to everybody's taste. He was quite rambling, I was

:50:29.:50:34.

surprised at how people went at him, he has had bad reviews. He made a

:50:35.:50:38.

compelling case for wanting to leave, if not for what would happen

:50:39.:50:43.

once Britain did leave. There was a lot of pressure, because he is the

:50:44.:50:46.

charismatic figurehead of the campaign. They are relying on him to

:50:47.:50:52.

appeal to voters who are not particularly interested in

:50:53.:50:54.

politicians generally, and he did not make that mark. David Cameron

:50:55.:50:59.

has had a successful few weeks, scaring voters. What will he do now?

:51:00.:51:05.

Will he be relatively quiet, or will he continue with his campaign? I

:51:06.:51:11.

don't think it is in his nature to be quiet. He was not intending to

:51:12.:51:17.

take a leading role for the campaign, but he is stuck with it. I

:51:18.:51:22.

cannot see him shying away to frequently from sticking his neck

:51:23.:51:23.

out. Thank you very much. It is the Parliamentary Labour Party

:51:24.:51:31.

tonight, where you there last week? Yes. It was the first time Jeremy

:51:32.:51:38.

Corbyn had come to address Labour MPs, and tonight he will take

:51:39.:51:42.

questions. Last week he stated he was confident about what will happen

:51:43.:51:49.

in the local Government elections in May and the Police and Crime

:51:50.:51:52.

Commissioner elections, and I share that confidence, we have new young

:51:53.:51:57.

members, I was on the doorstep for Sadiq Khan last Thursday, very

:51:58.:52:02.

positive response in London. We should make gains in council that we

:52:03.:52:11.

need to win. Will you? We absolutely should, Calderdale has been hit by

:52:12.:52:15.

the floods, we only need to take one seat to take control of the council.

:52:16.:52:20.

Just fill it, when asked if Labour could win the election, said

:52:21.:52:26.

absolutely not. It is too early to say, this is the first electoral

:52:27.:52:30.

test for Jeremy, he is up beat, as am I. It is important we keep our

:52:31.:52:37.

eyes focused on the by-election in Sheffield Brightside, we had our new

:52:38.:52:43.

candidate selected, she will be standing, and I have no doubt she

:52:44.:52:46.

will be a brilliant MP, and what a courageous woman, to take part on so

:52:47.:52:49.

soon after first husband died. Now, because the Daily Politics

:52:50.:52:51.

is a high-brow news and current-affairs show -

:52:52.:52:54.

no laughing at the back, please - we can show

:52:55.:52:56.

you this happening. He was looking relaxed

:52:57.:52:58.

now, but then... Mayhem, as parliamentary drama

:52:59.:53:02.

turned into a circus. Let's speak to Nick

:53:03.:53:05.

Robinson, who was there. I was sitting a few feet

:53:06.:53:08.

away from Mr Murdoch, half a second before he was hit

:53:09.:53:13.

in the face with a plate Yes, that was a foam pie

:53:14.:53:18.

being thrown at media mogul Rupert Murdoch as he gave evidence

:53:19.:53:25.

to a select committee back in 2011. But while we can show it to you,

:53:26.:53:32.

footage from Parliament can't be used by any light-entertainment

:53:33.:53:35.

programme or in political satire. Last week one MP pressed the House

:53:36.:53:40.

of Commons to rethink the ban. Here's what Leader of

:53:41.:53:43.

the House Chris Grayling had to say. Could we have a statement

:53:44.:53:47.

on the uses of broadcast footage My constituent Charlie Brooker

:53:48.:53:50.

has raised with me... He has raised that he is not able

:53:51.:53:57.

to use it in his programme Screenwipe, whereas other

:53:58.:54:07.

not-dissimilar It depends whether it is satire,

:54:08.:54:09.

light entertainment or factual. Given how vague the boundaries

:54:10.:54:15.

are and these rules were dreamt up 27 years ago, would he not agree

:54:16.:54:18.

with me it is a good juncture to revisit this

:54:19.:54:22.

and have a statement? If it is a matter that concerns her,

:54:23.:54:28.

she should put a submission to the administration committee,

:54:29.:54:31.

but I think it is important we make sure the coverage of this House

:54:32.:54:34.

is used in an appropriate way. I am not in favour of it

:54:35.:54:37.

being made available Well, we're joined now

:54:38.:54:39.

by the former MP Tom Harris, who thinks it's time to let

:54:40.:54:45.

the satirists get stuck in. That recording of the pie that we

:54:46.:55:00.

showed can be used in a news report, but not in a satirical programme.

:55:01.:55:07.

Does it make sense? Makes no sense. It is a rule that is nearly 30 years

:55:08.:55:12.

old. In the late 80s when MPs were being strong bond to support for the

:55:13.:55:17.

first time the televising of Parliament, they needed reassurance

:55:18.:55:21.

that they were not going to be mercilessly mocked. In 2016, of

:55:22.:55:25.

course they are going to be mercilessly mocks, that is life, and

:55:26.:55:28.

they need to get over themselves and are now it to happen. Do we want MPs

:55:29.:55:34.

to be overly ridiculed and exposed to ridicule if they are perfectly

:55:35.:55:40.

able to do it themselves? Indeed they are. But the idea that you

:55:41.:55:45.

would offer some special protection to Parliament, of all the

:55:46.:55:51.

institutions, even the Royal family does not get that, so why would our

:55:52.:55:56.

elected representatives? They are big and ugly enough to look after

:55:57.:55:59.

themselves, to answer for themselves, they don't need this

:56:00.:56:05.

protection. If they do, I wonder if they are up to the job. One might

:56:06.:56:11.

say, you would say that now, you are not an MP anymore, I never heard

:56:12.:56:14.

this clamour from when you were an MP. That is right. The wonderful

:56:15.:56:20.

perspective one is given when you are no longer a member of the

:56:21.:56:24.

chamber! From the comfort of your studio! In the spirit of John

:56:25.:56:30.

Wilkes, who was banned from reporting what MPs said,

:56:31.:56:33.

broadcasters should ignore this. There are ridiculous rules that the

:56:34.:56:39.

House of Commons put into place, broadcasters should ignore it. I was

:56:40.:56:44.

told I could not use Periscope to broadcast, and I ignored it.

:56:45.:56:48.

Although it pains me to agree with Douglas, I do. Tom and I worked on

:56:49.:56:53.

the shadow transport team for many years. The Internet means these

:56:54.:56:57.

clips can be picked up, used, accused in whatever way. The idea

:56:58.:57:02.

that you say that you cannot show something funny to John Stuart on

:57:03.:57:07.

the capital at a show, it is Alice through the looking glass. Would

:57:08.:57:11.

Chris Grayling make a good subject for satire? I described him last

:57:12.:57:16.

week as somebody who looks like he had just been ejected from an

:57:17.:57:20.

undertaker's convention for bringing everybody else down. I am sure he is

:57:21.:57:28.

a light-hearted chap, but he needs to drag the house into the

:57:29.:57:29.

21st-century. He is to drag the house into the

:57:30.:57:33.

justify the old buffer culture. Will it change? It has do. In fairness to

:57:34.:57:40.

the Speaker, when I first became an MP I could not put online clips of

:57:41.:57:44.

me speaking in the chamber, I had to go through a bureaucratic process,

:57:45.:57:49.

the Speaker has changed it, we need to go further. Argue about to

:57:50.:57:53.

replace the Prime Minister's favourite columnist in the Daily

:57:54.:57:58.

Telegraph? Who is he? Dan Hodges. Yes, I am. You are going to become

:57:59.:58:06.

his favourite! I and the new Dan Hodges, but more clean-shaven and

:58:07.:58:09.

probably slightly more right wing. You will say goodbye to your friends

:58:10.:58:14.

in the Labour Party? No, I am sticking in there for the laughs. I

:58:15.:58:19.

will be using this platform to speak truth unto powerlessness. For the

:58:20.:58:24.

laughs, that this charming. How dare you, see me later! I will!

:58:25.:58:27.

There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.

:58:28.:58:30.

The question was, which leading left-winger has re-joined the Labour

:58:31.:58:33.

A) former MP George Galloway, b) unions boss Mark Serwotka,

:58:34.:58:36.

c) former Militant councillor Derek Hatton, or d) the filmmaker

:58:37.:58:39.

Mocks what car. If he is nicer to me on question Time, it would be a good

:58:40.:58:48.

thing. The 1pm is starting

:58:49.:58:49.

over on BBC One now. I'll be here at noon tomorrow

:58:50.:58:54.

with all the big political stories

:58:55.:58:57.

Ukip's Douglas Carswell and Labour's Mary Creagh join Jo Coburn. They look at the migration summit in Brussels that David Cameron will be attending, John Longworth's resignation from the British Chambers of Commerce over his views on the EU, and a possible Conservative backbench rebellion over relaxing Sunday trading laws.


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